Will Russia be able to fight effectively without the PMC "Wagner"


In this publication, I would like to continue the topic of the military mutiny raised by the employees of the Wagner PMC, and the lessons that need to be learned from this unfortunate incident. All these problems, or most of them, could have been avoided if the "tops" had not played with fire and listened in a timely manner to the recommendations of far-sighted people.


Don't make an idol


First, the author of these lines would like to give an answer to the numerous critics who are now accusing him of some kind of incomprehensible "deflection" and participation in the campaign to denigrate the "Wagnerites" with allegedly selfish or careeristic goals. No one is engaged in any slander, it’s just that things are called by their proper names, and this was done out of inner conviction, systematically and for a long time.

Our longtime readers may remember the publication of titled "PMC" Wagner ": to be or not to be in Russia for private armies of oligarchs", where the phenomenon of this paramilitary structure was considered in detail. The author of the lines will allow himself a little self-quoting:

In the dry residue, it turns out that in the hands of a big businessman there is his own small private army, and this cannot be right. So far, their interests seem to coincide with the state, but what if they stop? What if serious things happen in our country? political changes, and the inner circle of the president will change? Recall that the very first reports about this PMC began to appear in late 2014 and early 2015, when “purges” took place among the free commanders of the local militia on the territory of the DPR and LPR. We add to this that, according to the URA.ru publication, people with a criminal past, attracted by large salaries and the opportunity to shoot, who are planting their “thieves” orders, are actively drawn into the ranks of mercenaries.

This was written on February 21, 2021, a year before the start of the special operation in Ukraine! It was said about a really existing serious problem, which in the future could become our common one, and, as you can see, it has become such.

Also with great caution in ARTICLES dated February 20, 2023, under the title “Why did so many people want to acquire a private army appear in Russia”, concerns were expressed about this. The very next day, February 21, a proposal was put forward "nationalize" PMC "Wagner" in the following form:

This whole topic with some kind of special thieves' code of the private army poses a huge danger to post-war life in Russia in the future. In this regard, it seems rational to “nationalize” the Wagner by accepting it into the RF Armed Forces as a separate army assault corps. Instead of short-term 6-month contracts for "criminal musicians", it is necessary to conclude long-term contracts for military service, including the period of departure in the MLS, say, for three years. Better to put things in order with private armies right now than to rake up the consequences of short-sighted decisions for a long time and bloody.

It was also explained in detail why this should not be delayed. However, Shoigu’s department with the “nationalization” of the first Russian PMC, which Mr. Prigozhin himself called “a paramilitary organized crime group with tanks, planes and helicopters”, dragged on, starting to do it in a hurry only recently, giving the “musicians” a deadline of July 1, 2023.

Moreover, the author of the lines, speaking from a statist position and respecting the personnel of Wagner and his unwillingness to go hand in hand with Messrs. Shoigu and Gerasimov, voiced a proposal to formalize the former PMC as a kind of analogue French Foreign Legion or in the form of the Expeditionary Corps of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with direct subordination to the President and the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.

As you can see, all these repeated public calls for several years went unheeded, and in the end, what happened was supposed to happen. The question is, what's next?

"Wagner" VS RF Armed Forces


As far as is known, the fighters of the PMC, which fell into disgrace after an unsuccessful attempt at a rebellion, were given a choice: sign a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense or maintain independence and move to Belarus. Most likely, most of them will go under the arm of the "Father", and therefore now many are lamenting how we will continue to fight without the "musicians". This needs to be dealt with.

Over the past year, the attitude about how super-efficient the private army is and the allegedly ineffective state army has been actively introduced into the public consciousness, opposing them to each other. Yevgeny Prigozhin was especially adept at this, exposing two of his ordinary fighters, who supposedly are worth all Russian soldiers, and telling marvelous stories about how his PMC could drive through Kiev to Uzhgorod in a day at the beginning of the NMD, taking them on the move. Say, that's what good fellows they are, not like the military personnel of the RF Armed Forces. I wonder what the “Wagnerites” would do near Uzhgorod, if the Ukrainian army, numerically superior not only to PMCs, but also to the entire group of the RF Armed Forces involved in the NVO, would cut off their supply and retreat routes, encircling them?

Well, okay, everyone is PR and earns as they can. It would be foolish to deny the fact that the Wagner at the beginning of the special operation was more combat-ready than the Russian Ground Forces. It is better to ask the question - why did this happen?

The successes in the offensive operations of the "musicians" were ensured by a combination of several factors: a staff of high-class professional military personnel who went to PMCs from Shoigu's army, extensive practical experience gained in the Middle East and Africa, good supplies provided entirely at the expense of the Russian state, as well as iron discipline, implemented outside the legal field. Which of these is or is not in our state army?

Judging by the news from the front, the troops are very short of junior commanders. This problem could and should have been solved a long time ago, by opening en masse three-month courses for junior lieutenants. It would be right to try to keep at least a part of the "Wagnerites" in Russia, evenly distributing them among the troops. The experience of real combat operations in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation has already been gained enormous. The author of the lines happened to hear the complaints of the Ukrainian propagandist Dmitry Gordon that the Russian army, they say, is now fighting really well, which explains the slow advance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the Southern Front. And this is true, ours have become better and smarter in fighting, despite numerous supply problems, which we will talk about later.

As for iron discipline, then, if Messrs. Shoigu and Gerasimov had been given the right to shoot or beat their subordinates with a sledgehammer on the head with impunity, there would also be no “five hundredths” in the RF Armed Forces, believe me. And it would be even better not to drive people to frontal assaults on fortified areas without tyranny, having re-read textbooks on military tactics, and to provide artillery preparation for the offensive in accordance with the standards, and not 4-5 shells.

Finally, I must say about the supply. President Putin personally told how much budget money went into the pockets of the top manager of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin and his fighters for the provided assault services:

From May 2022 to May 2023 alone, the state paid the Wagner company 86 billion 262 million rubles for cash support and incentive payments. Of these, the allowance is 70 billion 384 million, incentive payments - 15 billion 877 million. Insurance payments - 110 billion 179 million.

Despite the fact that the very maintenance of Wagner was on the shoulders of the state, in a year the owner of the Concord company through Voentorg received, earned from the state, supplying food and providing food services to the army, 80 billion rubles. The maintenance was completely taken over by the state, and part of this whole group, this very Concord company, at the same time earned 80 billion rubles.

This is a huge amount of money that went to mercenaries who mutinied when they didn't like something, and now they are moving to another country, although the war is far from over. Meanwhile, these billions could be used to purchase secure radio communications, drones, thermal imagers, night sights, body armor, first aid kits and other equipment and ammunition for the military personnel of the RF Armed Forces and mobilized, as well as open additional production lines at gunpowder and shell factories. You can only rely on your own army, which can fight as well as any foreign or private one, if it is fully equipped, staffed according to the state and under the command of competent commanders.

The experiment with a private contractor during the SVO can be considered unsuccessful. It is necessary to update and develop our own, state army, making it people's, of course, starting from the top.
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  1. strange guest Online strange guest
    strange guest (Strange Guest) 28 June 2023 10: 48
    +5
    All this talk about the people's army .. The army is a cross section of society, guys. And nothing else. Look around you and then demand from the army. Otherwise they want a "spherical horse in a vacuum" ..
  2. Mikhail Dadeko Offline Mikhail Dadeko
    Mikhail Dadeko (Mikhail Dadeko) 28 June 2023 11: 22
    +14
    Will they be able to fight without Wagner, but how much and when? Combat experience does not fall from the sky, judging by the reports, it’s not very good at the front, l / s is sorely lacking, and Wagner is a combat unit! fool
    1. Alexey Lan Online Alexey Lan
      Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 28 June 2023 11: 47
      +13
      Experience is experience, however, VS training centers do not always have a good reputation. There are complaints about poor teaching. At the same time, it is believed that the training centers of Chechnya and Wagner teach much better. In this regard, the question arises: who is the teacher?
    2. skeptic Offline skeptic
      skeptic 29 June 2023 00: 57
      +11
      Quote: Mikhail Dadeko
      Will they be able to fight without Wagner, but how much and when?

      From the whole text with a very large number of letters, I understood one thing - "Wagner" came to the rescue when the army, under the command of "SUVs", fell down ... And now, when "Wagner" pulled "regroupings" out of the most difficult situation, the "SUVs "an idea was born (grab) i.e. nationalize someone else's labor, and indeed the entire PMC. Now, with the feeling of a "new owner", there are reflections on where to put the "bydlospets", in the best traditions of racketeering.
      This is a word about "decency" and the stupidity of grabbers - those who left the "parquet army" or "left" them gathered in the PMC. And how ... should one be, after such a raider takeover, to stay there? After all, unequivocally, "SUVs" will try to "burn" them in suicidal slaughterhouses, so that no one competes in their swamp.
  3. Constantine N Offline Constantine N
    Constantine N (Constantin N) 28 June 2023 11: 23
    -5
    well, the entire Ukrainian offensive fought without PMCs, it was preparing for a rebellion
  4. borisvt Offline borisvt
    borisvt (boris) 28 June 2023 11: 29
    +1
    The key is the last sentence. I don't agree with the first sentence, but completely agree with the second.
    The fact is that all the enumeration of the author's far-sighted and competent proposals is like a voice crying in the wilderness. The clumsy leadership was not going to implement those timely warnings and proposals, did not notice, and did not blow in the mustache. Most likely, our "bronze" did not blow either.
    Let's hope that the situation made you rub your eyes a little
    1. Peter rybak Offline Peter rybak
      Peter rybak (Patrol) 30 June 2023 06: 05
      +5
      About the author's foresight.
      Officially, in August 2022, the Presnensky Court of Moscow found unreliable the words of the former editor-in-chief of the Ekho Moskvy radio station, Alexei Venediktov, that Prigozhin was the owner of the PMC. But Marzhetsky wrote about this a year and a half earlier, and is still at large. Amazing fact. So many people have received criminal charges for hinting at Prigozhin, but our author is safe and sound.
      But this is all nonsense. Another phrase caught my attention:

      give Messrs. Shoigu and Gerasimov the right to shoot or beat with a sledgehammer on the head of their subordinates with impunity, there would be no “XNUMXth” in the RF Armed Forces either, believe me.

      Give the people courage and the right to choose, there would be no Shoigu and Gerasimovs. There would be no PMCs capable of overturning power in the country in a matter of days. This is not how we would live.

      Finally, I must say about the supply. President Putin personally told how much budget money went into the pockets of the top manager of Wagner PMC Prigozhin and his fighters

      And he didn't know? Or did you first hear about Prigozhin when he captured Rostov? And what, will you order to support the army, feed, clothe, shoe, arm?
      And Putin informs the country about this in such an angelic voice that it becomes sickening.
      And the Lord is waiting there.
  5. Paul3390 Offline Paul3390
    Paul3390 (Paul) 28 June 2023 11: 38
    +27
    I would put the question differently - will Russia be able to effectively fight with such a leadership?
    1. Jstas Offline Jstas
      Jstas (jstas) 28 June 2023 12: 07
      +11
      And what was the effectiveness of leadership manifested in? One Kabul-2, a drape of Putin's "fellows" from Moscow is worth something. Okay, they didn’t cling to the landing gear of the aircraft
  6. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 28 June 2023 12: 00
    +1
    Cho all clung to the switchmen?
    Wagner's leadership is the President's people, so he is clearly in the know.

    It is necessary to cover the effectiveness of your army: Almaty, Su57, Su75, Hunters and Uranians, Terminators and Ratnik-2.
    Cast iron bombs and calibration shooting, lunar landscapes and skeletons of burnt houses...
    For 70% of new weapons in the Army, there were, and now there are probably even more!

    Here it is to illuminate.
  7. Jstas Offline Jstas
    Jstas (jstas) 28 June 2023 12: 03
    +22
    Judging by the title, the author did not understand how his topic is called.

    Did Wagner prevent the MO / Shaig, Gerasimov / from winning in the NWO?
    1. etoyavsemprivet Offline etoyavsemprivet
      etoyavsemprivet (It's me. Hello everyone.) 28 June 2023 19: 15
      +4
      Wants to sit here and there).
  8. GOR_XVII Offline GOR_XVII
    GOR_XVII (GOR) 28 June 2023 12: 56
    +20
    Putin personally told how much budget money went into the pockets of the top manager of Wagner PMC

    Lying.
    The money was spent on the maintenance of PMCs, these are salaries to employees, benefits, support for the families of the wounded and killed, uniforms, etc., and this is really a lot of money. Fighting is expensive. I am sure that a unit of the Russian Armed Forces of the same size consumes not less, but more money, because it is necessary to maintain a huge army of lampas generals. I think no less money is spent on the maintenance and protection of the president.
    The author writes that discipline in PMCs is the result of executions and assault. Again a lie. There is not a single real case of the execution of a company employee, and there never was, except for some muddy videos. As for the assault, I don’t know, but sometimes it works better for drunkards and slobs than going to a military tribunal. In general, among the male team, this happens. The author somehow closed his eyes, what high-profile scandals were and are in our army with executions and assault, and the author somehow completely forgot about hazing.
    The author writes that the most experienced and competent military men were gathered in the PMC, and at the same time he writes that they somehow do not fight correctly. Rave. If they did not know how to fight, they could not successfully attack and take cities. Naturally, they suffered losses, but it cannot be otherwise. And if they were supplied with enough shells, then there would be fewer losses. But our personnel army cannot boast of this.
    I would advise the author to stop writing such articles, and join the army in the NVO as a sergeant. Maybe you'll rise to the rank of officer.
    1. pentwer Offline pentwer
      pentwer (Bakhtiyar) 28 June 2023 20: 42
      +9
      I completely agree with you about the article and the position of the author. Sometimes a respected author gets carried away, especially when it is necessary to indicate one's position on situations like this one. Humanly understandable, but it looks like conjuncture, in my opinion
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Anatoly21 Offline Anatoly21
      Anatoly21 (Anatoly21) 29 June 2023 13: 32
      0
      drinks Bravo! Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye!
  9. prior Offline prior
    prior (Vlad) 28 June 2023 13: 04
    +7
    Under what law was the budget money transferred to an illegal armed group?
    Who will answer? Maybe the Duma, the main legislative body?
    The situation with Wagner clearly showed the degree of lawlessness in our country.
    1. Jstas Offline Jstas
      Jstas (jstas) 28 June 2023 13: 24
      +13
      State Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin turned to Vasily Piskarev, Chairman of the Duma Committee on Security and Anti-Corruption, with a request to check which of the civil servants tried to leave Russia during the armed rebellion.
      “A request to the chairman of the security committee, together with law enforcement agencies, to analyze who at that time was trying to fly out of those who occupy significant positions, work in the public service, in government agencies, joint-stock companies, corporations. And make it public,” Volodin said.

      They will come out on their own. They ran to the airports on Saturday faster than a pig's squeal. MPs first...
      Out of fear, they made Monday a day off.
    2. Alexey Lan Online Alexey Lan
      Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 28 June 2023 16: 32
      +4
      Well, we have more than one military formation that is not part of the state military structures, so what? They are also funded. And according to what law from the budget of the regions they pay money to mobilized members of the Moscow Region. After all, they should be financed from the state budget of Russia.
    3. Aleksey Glotov Offline Aleksey Glotov
      Aleksey Glotov (alexey glotov) 28 June 2023 19: 05
      +9
      And according to what law did 20 Wagnerites lay down their lives in Bakhmut?
    4. skeptic Offline skeptic
      skeptic 29 June 2023 01: 13
      +3
      Quote: prior
      Under what law was the budget money transferred to an illegal armed group?

      According to the one according to which the state invited PMC "Wagner" to help, and undertook to pay for it and provide appropriate weapons and ammunition. Then he set me up and declared that he would generally take it into his own hands, squeezing funds to pay for the soldiers and the treatment of the wounded, the maintenance of the disabled. "For the fact that people tried to resent lawlessness."
  10. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 28 June 2023 13: 13
    -17
    The effectiveness of PMC Wagner - puts fighters without an account and actually moves forward over the corpses of his employees - what is the demand from a private trader? In the army, they ask commanders of all levels for this in all severity.
    He receives money for the strongholds and settlements taken, and in order to break through the enemy’s defenses, he requires a special attitude - tanks, guns, planes, ammunition and everything else, but how can you refuse him and, if possible, did not refuse until he raised a rebellion. Well, the media also contributed to Prigozhin's advertising - Wagner took this, Wagner took this, accused the commanders and the RF Defense Ministry of incompetence, and no one said a word about what blood his “successes” were paid for.
    1. Jstas Offline Jstas
      Jstas (jstas) 28 June 2023 13: 27
      +21
      The end of August-beginning of September, the victorious retreat of the Shaigu-Gerasimov army from the Kharkov region, where a lot of equipment was left
    2. Alexey Lan Online Alexey Lan
      Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 28 June 2023 16: 35
      +7
      And they are silent about our losses over the past three weeks. It seems to me that they are very small. Miracles don't happen. And if the MO went on a serious offensive?
    3. The comment was deleted.
  11. Valera75 Offline Valera75
    Valera75 (Valery) 28 June 2023 13: 46
    +11
    Quote: Jacques Sekavar
    The effectiveness of PMC Wagner - puts fighters without an account and actually moves forward over the corpses of his employees - what is the demand from a private trader

    Wagner broke all the stereotypes, or what should I call them? The rules of war? They showed the whole world that you can attack without having an advantage in numbers and have losses of no more than 3 to 1, but less. Calculate the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Wagner
    1. Peter rybak Offline Peter rybak
      Peter rybak (Patrol) 30 June 2023 06: 15
      0
      Calculate the losses of the APU and Wagner

      Do you have accurate data on APU losses? Or ads from TV?
      How do you know about the number of Wagner's losses?
      It is not possible to compare two closed information.
      We will calculate the losses in twenty years, when the number of men in the country will decrease and the Slavic population of the state will be replaced by the Central Asian.
  12. Vladimir VN Offline Vladimir VN
    Vladimir VN (Vladimir) 28 June 2023 13: 46
    +21
    Our army will not be able now without Wagner. USSR, mid 70s. Of the three thousand conscripts, only one fell into the special forces. We had 7 months of preparation, then we were urgently needed for the parade, we were engaged in stepping for a month and a half, then we were detained, but combat training continued all this time. In general, they were called up in April, I got into the troops after the New Year. We didn’t have any hazing back then, we were driven in the tail and in the mane. Then they prepared their own replacements. We were also prepared by the participants of the Second World War and military officers. Where can I get this time now? Where can you get so many combat officers who need to be torn off the front for a long time. Shoigu and Gerasimov did not cope with their task, what the Supreme will do, I have no idea. If you do not remove them both, the situation will only worsen, and it is already getting worse. Wagner cannot be crushed, it will only be harmful. Everyone has probably heard about combat coordination, here it takes at least three months, but people must already be prepared and all the necessary skills must already be worked out to automatism, there is no other way. Actually Shoigu and Gerasimov created this problem.
    1. Alexey Lan Online Alexey Lan
      Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 28 June 2023 16: 42
      +3
      Since it so happened, it is advisable to use the remnants of the Wagnerites who will conclude a contract with the Moscow Region, especially officers, wisely, and above all for training new fighters. If they disperse, then the damage to the army will be great.
      1. skeptic Offline skeptic
        skeptic 29 June 2023 01: 19
        +4
        Quote: Alexey Lan
        Since it so happened, it is advisable to use the remnants of the Wagnerites who will conclude a contract with the Moscow Region, especially officers, wisely

        Since it so happened, only newcomers will remain with me - the backbone will leave, because from what they are, they left for PMCs.
  13. oleg Pesotsky Offline oleg Pesotsky
    oleg Pesotsky (Oleg Pesotsky) 28 June 2023 13: 52
    +22
    I am amazed at the rhetoric of the president "FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF PMC WAGNER" Are they some kind of kept woman of a rich dad? Let's deal with the sum itself, out of 86 billion 70 was spent on payments to fighters, 15 billion bonuses during the b / d, 1 billion insurance payments (I will explain - these are payments for the death, injury and injury of fighters) If you are a huckster to the end, then what the country received for this generally small amount on a national scale (remember the detained corrupt officials from whom 12 billion or more were confiscated) So, the capture of Popasna and Volnovakha, this ensured the encirclement of Mariupol. Breakthrough of the defense of powerful fortified areas and the capture of Soledar and Artemovsk. In this operation, the best units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were purposefully crushed. I think the money is well spent. And if you estimate how much equipment was abandoned by the RF Armed Forces during a fun drape from near Kharkov and the inability of the army for a year and a half to take small towns near Donetsk, then the balance with debit credit is clearly not in favor of the Moscow Region.
    1. Alexey Lan Online Alexey Lan
      Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 28 June 2023 16: 45
      +8
      Everyone has probably heard about the silver forest for half a year. And, interestingly, ours always took something little by little, but for six months they never left the forest.
    2. Otto Davar Offline Otto Davar
      Otto Davar (Otto Davar) 29 June 2023 00: 44
      +4
      I'd like to point out about the 80 yards received by Concorde for food services from the MoD. Did he feed the soldiers with air?
      Weak argument from the President.
      1. Khakas Offline Khakas
        Khakas (KHAKAS) 29 June 2023 05: 15
        -4
        It was necessary to listen better, this is already profit, and not the turnover of all money
        1. Peter rybak Offline Peter rybak
          Peter rybak (Patrol) 30 June 2023 06: 17
          -1
          Shouldn't there be profit?
  14. Valera75 Offline Valera75
    Valera75 (Valery) 28 June 2023 13: 56
    +7
    Wagner, created by the state and not by businessman Prigozhin. Wagner’s prisoners? The state gave him the go-ahead to recruit them en masse, and as I see looking at Wagner, they tested it on him, and then they took this place from where you can draw shots, stupidly forbidding this to Prigozhin and allowing them by decree.

    Further, Sergei writes that the PMC spent a lot of money and would they spend it in the right direction? Some say Wagner killed 9000 others that 20000, let's take an average of 10000. there, too, for 5 billion, I think it goes, plus they give for burial, as they say, 50 tons of rubles each, the transportation of 3 there will already cost a hundred billion and these are only the wounded and the dead. I can’t say how the Russian army will fight without Wagner PMCs, but without them I don’t think we don’t have so many military men to advance on a wide front and take them into boilers or encirclement, while at the same time it’s good to strengthen the flanks so as not to be in the clutches of the enemy. Mobilization has been asking for a long time, but if we start it in the fall, we can attack in winter or by spring. there is no mobilization, and recruitment under the contract is 10000 per day, this is most likely enough to cover losses, 50, and those who, due to health, are decreasing from those mobilized earlier.
    1. Alexey Lan Online Alexey Lan
      Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 28 June 2023 16: 49
      +1
      Of course, they will fight and win the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, I hope, only at what cost. Wagner's methods should definitely be used. No wonder the Old Man said that the sun of Belarus would adopt the experience of Wagner.
    2. Peter rybak Offline Peter rybak
      Peter rybak (Patrol) 30 June 2023 06: 21
      0
      Mobilization has been asking for a long time, but if we start it in the fall, then we will be able to advance in winter or by spring.

      So don't wait, go!
      Or age does not allow? Or health?
      And let the youth go, right?
  15. Pembo Offline Pembo
    Pembo 28 June 2023 14: 50
    +14
    As for iron discipline, then, if Messrs. Shoigu and Gerasimov had been given the right to shoot or beat their subordinates with a sledgehammer on the head with impunity, there would also be no “five hundredths” in the RF Armed Forces, believe me.

    In the Russian army, the XNUMXth is not because it is forbidden to hit the head with a sledgehammer, but because the contract is so wonderfully drawn up there that you can put down a report and leave. We do not have a war, but a NWO. Incidentally, the law on the abolition of the death penalty stipulated: in peacetime. Because if in wartime a person is given the alternative of life in prison or death at the front, many will choose life in prison. In wartime, a person is faced with an alternative: either an imminent shameful death, or a probable heroic death. But we are not at war. And Prigozhin fights and shoots deserters.

    Finally, I must say about the supply. President Putin personally told how much budget money went into the pockets of the top manager of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin and his fighters for the provided assault services:

    There is a contract, you signed it: you blew your eyes, what you bought. Is it provided for by the state? Then what are the claims? Why are you joining the pro-government choir for no reason at all.
    From Prigozhin, hired by the state, the state tried to squeeze out business. Imagine you ordered a repair from a company, and when the repair was done to you, you began to persuade the workers of the sent brigade to work for yourself.
    When you exclaim: I told you, I warned you! It looks at least strange. PMC Wagner was invited not because they did not understand that it was not comme il faut and fraught, but because of hopelessness. The Russian army did not fulfill the tasks assigned to it.
    And the question of how we will fight without Wagner is a special case of the question of how we will fight at all. So far, both the Armed Forces of Ukraine and we have succeeded in defense, but have not succeeded in attack. Defense gnaws through, but very slowly.
  16. Sergei Fonov Offline Sergei Fonov
    Sergei Fonov (sergey fonov) 28 June 2023 15: 01
    +3
    From the above, attacks on Wagner began back in 2021, when there were no disagreements between the president and Prigozhin, while the PMC was considered the personal guard of the president, of course, this was not advertised. That is, the successor operation began in 2021? Who headed it, and why was it so often written that Prigozhin was a criminal? About iron military discipline and the right to an extrajudicial death penalty, the Author does not know what he is trying to write about from the word at all. There are statistics in the spacecraft during the war years (157) people were shot, those 593 (fifteen) divisions, this is incomplete data, the Germans shot (15) people from September 1, 1939 to September 1, 1944, the reports note that extrajudicial executions in the spacecraft by 7810 people in front of the formation are ineffective. Can't you say about the Germans that they fought badly? But they shot a little? The purpose of expelling Wagner may be to deprive the president of reliance on loyal people.? I don’t know, but the attacks on Wagner have been alarming since peacetime.
    1. Sergei Fonov Offline Sergei Fonov
      Sergei Fonov (sergey fonov) 28 June 2023 23: 24
      +8
      Marzhetsky! Are you accusing me of turning everything upside down? What exactly, the conclusions are quite logical, and correspond to the facts. Relations between the president and Prigogine have been excellent until recently. What's happened? Why did the country face the specter of a civil war? Who is guilty? I hope you heard what a causal relationship is. If the PMC commander is not given shells, as a result of which people die, who is to blame for the deaths? If instead of meeting with the commander of the PMC, the Defense Ministry and the National Guard run away from the front, who is to blame? Even if everything was fine at the front, the Ministry of Defense and the NGSH should have been removed for the mere fact that they are not able to understand that through their fault a massacre of their own with their own could begin, and in part it was so. So I'm fine with logic and conclusions. About executions and iron discipline, this is just statistics, you can’t change it.
      1. helmsman Offline helmsman
        helmsman (Helmsman) 29 June 2023 21: 54
        +2
        The NGSH had to be removed at the end of four months of the SVO.
  17. serivolkf1 Offline serivolkf1
    serivolkf1 (sergey wolf) 28 June 2023 16: 00
    +2
    no, yes, we will disappear, or maybe we will immediately surrender ...? slice of our society...? aaahahahah! who doesn’t know: there is a radial and tangential cut, there is still along and across ... how can you not trust the guys who are on the front? who writes the comments? I'm from Belgorod, I have questions, you are welcome!
    1. Vlad55 Offline Vlad55
      Vlad55 28 June 2023 18: 57
      +2
      And what about Belgorod, you already seem to be used to shelling, this is already normal for you, a person gets used to everything, an article about the ability of the army to perform tasks, we look back 16 months and draw conclusions.
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. Vlad55 Offline Vlad55
      Vlad55 28 June 2023 18: 50
      -2
      As for the crossing, it is doubtful, but the landing force that has taken and holds the bridgehead deserves respect. In the future, if the Kiev regime persists, they will sing heroic odes, call them by the names of streets, schools, etc. (if they continue to hold)
  19. depavel Offline depavel
    depavel (Pavel Pavlovich) 28 June 2023 18: 23
    0
    You need to understand that the appointment of PMCs is to resist, in the interests of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the gangster, gangster politics of the West, where there are no rules in war, and to be outsourced to the Foreign Intelligence Service. On the territory of Russia, the SVR can outsource MOs like the GRU, but it is more useful for departments with MTRs. That is, the support should carry out the SVR with imported weapons, so that logistics can be more successfully completed in the Dnieper, Nikolaev, Chernihiv, and not wait until the DRGs appear in the Belgorod, Kursk, Voronezh, Lipetsk and Rostov regions. But this is not feasible, because it is against the interests of the United States!
  20. Vlad55 Offline Vlad55
    Vlad55 28 June 2023 18: 45
    +9
    For objectivity, one should compare the costs of a comparable unit of the Ministry of Defense and the combat effectiveness of the output. And so it turns out that the author simply connected to the general propaganda campaign "at them"
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Aleksey Glotov Offline Aleksey Glotov
    Aleksey Glotov (alexey glotov) 28 June 2023 19: 07
    +12
    Quote: Jacques Sekavar
    ? In the army, they ask for this in all severity from commanders of all levels

    You don’t have to lie ... someone from the General Staff answered for the thousands of losses of our soldiers and officers in the first days of the NWO.
  23. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 28 June 2023 19: 48
    +3
    his own, state army, making it popular, of course, starting from the top.

    Another portion of Manilovism about a certain "people's army, starting from the top." Apparently, the current top of the army flew in from outer space. Since 1918, the army was called the worker-peasant army, after more than a century it remained the same.
    1. Otto Davar Offline Otto Davar
      Otto Davar (Otto Davar) 29 June 2023 00: 53
      +1
      Apparently, the current top of the army flew in from space

      Well, yes, straight from the planet of Pink ponies.
  24. Dust Offline Dust
    Dust (Sergei) 28 June 2023 21: 13
    +8
    On May 20, PMC Wagner officially took Bakhmut. Today is June 28, more than a month has passed. The question is, what are the successes of the Russian Aerospace Forces over this period of time? Deaf defense with the loss of villages along the entire front. What effectiveness of the war on the part of the Russian Aerospace Forces can we talk about?
  25. kakukktakukta Offline kakukktakukta
    kakukktakukta (Magyar Ferenc) 28 June 2023 21: 33
    +1
    First of all, I have to clarify: I don't know what Russia wants. Does Russia want to win, or does it want a 30-year standing war like in the First World War? Either with or without Wagner.
  26. svit55 Offline svit55
    svit55 (Sergey Valentinovich) 28 June 2023 21: 42
    +4
    Wagner are not aliens, they also studied, filled bumps, suffered losses. You can also teach others, but there is time, but there is experience in preparing the same MTR, Chechen University. special forces. etc. But with a cumbersome and not agile MO system, this is a problem. And it is not necessary to expect that Shoigu and Gerasimov are able to make changes.
  27. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 28 June 2023 22: 21
    +2
    Lord. Capitalism in the Russian Federation. What a state system, such an army, and here Wagner. The president's primary task is to ensure that the process of hostilities goes on, not victory or defeat, but a process. In 2024, the presidential and liberal elections must be won by any means. Without the SVO, the liberals will not win the elections. You can draw ballots, votes, but you can’t do without an army. Before the elections, there will be an offensive from the Russian Federation, they will liberate the Kherson, Zaporozhye regions. and LDNR, there will be victory, and the entire offensive of the RF Armed Forces will stop there, an agreement will be concluded, the United States will insist on this. If the president wanted victory over Ukraine, he would have long ago issued a law that the entire territory of Ukraine, within the borders of 1975, is an integral part of Russia. The PRC has several laws regarding Taiwan that state that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
    1. bonifacius Offline bonifacius
      bonifacius (Alex) 28 June 2023 23: 42
      +1
      And in Russia there is an official recognition of Ukraine as an independent independent state.
      1. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
        vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 30 June 2023 00: 01
        +2
        The Treaty "On Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between the Russian Federation and Ukraine" dated May 31, 1997 ceased to be valid on April 1, 2019 due to its denunciation by Ukraine. The termination of this Treaty releases the Russian Federation from any obligation in relation to Ukraine.
    2. Peter rybak Offline Peter rybak
      Peter rybak (Patrol) 30 June 2023 06: 32
      +1
      So, Russia has already recognized the statehood of Ukraine in its current international borders))) Many years ago. And the laws of the president do not decide whether this or that part of the planet belongs to any state. The world does not care about these laws, because another president will come and there will be other laws. There may even be a law that makes other previous presidents illegitimate.
      On a global scale, you see, the will and desire of one chela to bring happiness to the world does not solve anything. But one person can destroy the world, destroy us. And with our tacit consent.
  28. syndicalist Offline syndicalist
    syndicalist (Dimon) 28 June 2023 22: 33
    +7
    The Wagner experience taught Putin nothing. Today, he was crumbling in the courtesies of Kadyrov's army. I believe that very soon a new surprise awaits him.
  29. Vladimir 69 Offline Vladimir 69
    Vladimir 69 (Vladimir) 28 June 2023 23: 09
    +9
    How many experts divorced! That's just knowledgeable and principled, you will not find. In the air, they can turn over many times, and for many, the tongue works well for an indirect purpose.
    Rebellion against the state is very bad! Is it good to riot?
    In Syria alone, Wagner lost 2500 men, according to one of their commanders, doing most of the work on the ground. There are more than 10000 people in the NVO, according to the most conservative estimates, while taking the cities of Donbass.
    As for 80 billion rubles, just count the dead, wounded Wagnerites (5 million for a dead soldier, 3 million for a seriously wounded) and other important expenses, and this money still isn’t enough. They are provided for everyone, the population does not transfer money to them. Try to steal something from them, they will immediately put you up against the wall. Yes, the discipline of the Wagners is very tough, but they also performed very difficult tasks.
  30. Alexander Tutunenko (Alexander Tutunenko) 29 June 2023 00: 26
    +3
    Quote: kapitan92
    Quote: GOR_XVII
    I would advise the author to stop writing such articles, and join the army in the NVO as a sergeant. Maybe you'll rise to the rank of officer.

    hi
    This is not included in the plans of the Author. It is better to write such articles when the "priest" is warm. As I understand it, the author did not serve in the Army and is not going to volunteer.
    Maybe right, write such articles, "grind with your tongue, don't roll bags"! hi

    The author did not serve in the army due to severe myopia, unfit for combat.
  31. Otto Davar Offline Otto Davar
    Otto Davar (Otto Davar) 29 June 2023 01: 03
    +8
    Forget Wagner. Right now, the main issue on the agenda is the development of the resort and tourism industry in Dagestan.
    1. Dingo Offline Dingo
      Dingo (Victor) 1 July 2023 18: 42
      0
      Forget Wagner. Right now, the main issue on the agenda is the development of the resort and tourism industry in Dagestan.

      ...Get out of Moscow!
      I'm not a rider anymore.
      .

      (Chatsky - "Woe from Wit").
  32. Uncle Vlad Offline Uncle Vlad
    Uncle Vlad (Uncle Vlad) 29 June 2023 07: 13
    +1
    Would - would - would. And where were Garasim and Shoigu before that. Billions for the year of the war. Three-story barracks with an elevator and swimming pools were built for the servants. How our wounded Deputy Prime Minister from Roskosmos and his nephew mastered 1,3 billion from the Ministry of Defense in a week.
  33. pentwer Offline pentwer
    pentwer (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2023 09: 08
    +2
    I agree that the author has a hard-won point of view, but there is such a saying in Russia: "A misfortune will do for something!" Of course PMC Wagner is not a misfortune. Quite the contrary, and if such an effective structure exists in the country, then it was necessary for it to create the appropriate conditions and they, the Wagnerites, would fight the enemy very effectively, without being bothered either with discrimination at the legislative level, or with the provision of ammunition, or with any not objective restrictions would still. . But our situation is very bad: neither you have the legal registration of PMCs, nor you clear rules for the conduct of the parties, even compliance with agreements, as seen from the outside. This is where the conflict grew. That's why all this mess was brewed with claims to the Moscow Region. So if the orchestra (literally and figuratively) plays poorly, I think that the conductor is most likely to blame.
  34. soloist2424 Offline soloist2424
    soloist2424 (Oleg) 29 June 2023 10: 34
    -2
    ... give Messrs. Shoigu and Gerasimov the right to shoot or beat with a sledgehammer on the head of their subordinates with impunity, there would be no “five hundredths” in the RF Armed Forces either, believe me. And it would be even better not to drive people to frontal assaults on fortified areas without tyranny, having re-read textbooks on military tactics, and to provide artillery preparation for the offensive in accordance with the standards, and not with 4-5 shells.

    That is, the author knows exactly how Shoigu and Gerasimov drove specific people into frontal assaults without artillery support? ..
    For the past couple of years, Marzhetsky, in his articles, with some self-satisfied gloating, has been looking for flaws in the Russian system of government, and often his attacks are not substantiated.
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Peter rybak Offline Peter rybak
    Peter rybak (Patrol) 30 June 2023 06: 38
    +2
    Quote from solist2424
    ... give Messrs. Shoigu and Gerasimov the right to shoot or beat with a sledgehammer on the head of their subordinates with impunity, there would be no “five hundredths” in the RF Armed Forces either, believe me. And it would be even better not to drive people to frontal assaults on fortified areas without tyranny, having re-read textbooks on military tactics, and to provide artillery preparation for the offensive in accordance with the standards, and not with 4-5 shells.

    That is, the author knows exactly how Shoigu and Gerasimov drove specific people into frontal assaults without artillery support? ..
    For the past couple of years, Marzhetsky, in his articles, with some self-satisfied gloating, has been looking for flaws in the Russian system of government, and often his attacks are not substantiated.

    Brad you write. What does Marzhetsky have to do with it? I advise you to read what you have written before posting. Otherwise, it turns out that we have an ideal system, and Marzhetsky, who does not want to see this, is the enemy of the system.
  37. Flight Offline Flight
    Flight (Von) 2 July 2023 18: 49
    +1
    I am confused by one question - how? How did state billions fall into the hands of an illegal armed group? If the status of this organization, legally still, is not obvious.