Why is it dangerous to equip Ukrainian BECs with sea-based air defense systems?

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The unmanned “mosquito” fleet used by the Ukrainian Navy against the Russian Navy turned out, alas, to be very effective due to a number of technical and, more importantly, organizational reasons. Eliminating the latter could radically reduce the efficiency of Ukrainian unmanned boats, or BECs. But the enemy is not sitting still, working proactively and preparing new unpleasant surprises for the Black Sea Fleet.

Why did remotely controlled boats, which were primitive in nature and turned into fire ships, suddenly become so dangerous?



"Sword and shield"


At the initial stage of the naval war, when they first appeared, BECs were used in very measured doses, attacking Russian warships in small groups and for some reason precisely in the daytime, when they were clearly visible. Thanks to this, the crews of our ships had a chance to successfully shoot back at them using standard weapons - heavy machine guns and anti-aircraft artillery systems.

Apparently, this was done by the enemy on purpose, to lull the vigilance of the Black Sea Fleet command. The transition of the Ukrainian Naval Forces to night attacks by entire “wolf packs” turned out, unfortunately for us, to be effective. Through the efforts of the riflemen, most of the enemy BECs were destroyed, but even a few fireships that reached the sides were enough to cause critical damage to the ships. In this regard, the question arises: how can the surface personnel of the Russian Navy be protected from such a threat?

The answer lies on the surface. The main thing is prevention, namely, not allowing the “wolf pack” to approach the ship at all. Due to the low level of the viewing camera, the radius of detection of the target by the BEC on its own is extremely small, and therefore it must be aimed using external sources such as American reconnaissance UAVs, satellites, etc. The latter can see our ships, but for the Russian Navy the appearance of one and a half dozen remotely controlled For some reason, fire ships near Feodosia turn out to be an unpleasant surprise.

The bottom line is that it is vital for the Russian fleet in the Black Sea to ensure air supremacy, and high-altitude and medium-altitude reconnaissance and strike UAVs should play a key role here. We will tell you in detail where you can try to buy urgently needed drones for the needs of the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy. told earlier.

In theory, it is aviation, manned and unmanned, that should ensure the safety of navigation by promptly detecting enemy BECs during patrols and targeting them with weapons, such as attack helicopters, or destroying them independently with standard weapons. When parked, ships must be covered with booms, and an additional heavy machine gun with a thermal imager can be installed on the sides every few meters. Taken together, these measures can increase the combat stability of the Russian Navy against semi-submersible unmanned fire ships.

Confronting underwater attack drones, which the Ukrainian Navy will soon begin to use in the Black Sea, is a different story, where there are no simple solutions.

Evolution of BECs


We described the measures to counteract Ukrainian BECs in such detail because in the foreseeable future their effectiveness, alas, may decrease. The head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Square Kirill Budanov (listed in the Russian Federation as terrorists and extremists) made the following alarming statement:

Now specialists are working to install air defense systems on the unmanned platform. I'm not a technician, but I understand that this task is quite difficult. After all, we need means of detecting a target, capturing an airborne object, and a means of destruction - and all this must be placed on a fairly small platform. This is not an easy task purely technically, but it is real.

We are talking about Magura V5 maritime drones, which were used by the Ukrainian Navy during recent attacks on Russian warships. And this news is of grave concern.

At first, equipped with anti-aircraft missiles, BECs will be able to carry out air strikes themselves against attack helicopters and UAVs sent to intercept them.

Secondly, modern air defense missiles are optionally capable of operating not only against air targets, but also against ground and sea targets. For example, on Russian patrol boats.

Thirdly, the Ukrainian Navy may have the ability to carry out aerial ambushes on our reconnaissance drones, aircraft and even cruise missiles flying over the Black Sea. Dozens of semi-submersible sea drones will be able to take up positions and drift, waiting for a target to fly above them, and attack externally via satellite.

Thus, if Ukraine receives such weapons, the Black Sea will be lost in terms of safe navigation not only for the ships of the Russian Navy, but also for Russian aviation, which will not be able to fly over it freely. So far everything depends purely on technical side, since it is difficult to integrate something larger than a MANPADS into the Magura V5 body. But even so, semi-submersible BECs will become dangerous for our attack and anti-submarine helicopters, as well as medium-altitude UAVs.

It can be assumed that Ukraine will try to turn not the Magura V5 into a “naval anti-aircraft gun”, but a larger sea drone, the Sea Baby, which has a length of 7 meters and a width of almost 3 meters, and its payload weight reaches 1,2 tons. On this platform planned create an ultra-small unmanned missile boat carrying missiles with a range of up to 20 km.

The use of Sea Baby drones as air defense to cover a “wolf pack” of one and a half dozen fireships will radically reduce the capabilities of the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy in countering them. This threat is real and very, very serious. Ukraine must at any cost lose access to the Black Sea, otherwise we de facto risk losing it.
45 comments
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  1. +10
    6 March 2024 10: 13
    A simpler solution for the enemy is also possible. In a swarm of two to three dozen BECs, part will be shock, part will be equipped with air defense systems, and another part will be equipped with ATGMs. Control from a foreign drone or AWACS.
    A single ship will not survive such an attack.

    Solution: reduce the activity of foreign drones over the Black Sea. It is impossible to do without destruction (not with kerosene, but with a rocket). This is fraught with unpredictable consequences, but the alternative is the loss of the Fleet.

    And in addition you will have to sink a couple of transports going to Odessa. Submarines were built for a reason.
    1. +1
      6 March 2024 11: 31
      A swarm of three dozen drones. Won't the muzzle crack? It's not as cheap as it seems. Moreover, each one has MANPADS and ATGMs and a gutta-percha woman for fun. Rich fantasies. And for each individual operator? But what about all sorts of electronic warfare systems and other goodies in the form of rocket launchers, which are on every old ship of ours. I don't know about the new ones. And such a swarm of 30 fire ships has nothing to find direction with? I will never believe this. You just need to do this seriously. Practice defense techniques, but for this you need to have them yourself. And here it seems that it’s tense. We don't have those yet.
      1. -1
        6 March 2024 14: 07
        A swarm of 50 BEC at a cost of 10 million dollars, and sinking a ship for 50 million dollars or more, and with a crew, is a very correct direction. Regarding air defense, it’s not the air defenses that will be “glued” to the BEC, but they will go under water, and this direction of development is more than expected. Regarding the BEC with air defense, only larger surface ships, not fire ships, will be armed in the ship’s general weapon system. BEC to replace today's Karakurt and Bayan, first with a minimum crew, later without a crew at all. Therefore, today on the agenda is a review of all weapons construction programs: aviation, land weapons and naval weapons - a turning point has already begun, the main thing is not to be late and do not waste money on yesterday’s concepts and weapons.
        1. +2
          6 March 2024 14: 46
          Have you read the reports of the Valdai Club on the prospects for the development of the armed forces based on the results of the SVO?
        2. +5
          6 March 2024 14: 51
          A swarm of 50 BEC at a price of 10 million dollars

          The length of the boat is 5,5 m, the width is no more than 2 m. The total weight of the sea drone reaches one ton. A high-explosive warhead weighing up to 300 kg is placed inside the body. Detonation can be carried out upon contact with the target or at the command of the operator.
          The Magura V5 marine drone is equipped with a gasoline boat engine and reaches speeds of up to 80 km/h. The combat range is 800 km, and the autonomy is within 60 hours.
          The cost of one such marine drone is approximately $250 thousand. Construction is planned more than a hundred similar devices.
          1. -2
            6 March 2024 15: 57
            250 thousand dollars is of course nonsense from Wikipedia. In reality, such a device with all the payload and warhead, coastal launchers will cost at least several million dollars in serial production.
            1. +1
              6 March 2024 17: 26
              The price is not taken from Wiki. With serial production, the price will be even lower. I took the quote from an August 2023 article. There are other models there too

              https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2023/08/03/17369822.shtml
        3. +1
          18 March 2024 13: 40
          The length of the boat reaches 5,5 m with a width of no more than 1,5-2 m. The total weight of the structure is up to 1 ton. The speed is up to 80 km/h and the range is 800 km. Autonomy is declared at the level of 60 hours. A high-explosive warhead weighing (up to 300 kg) is placed inside the body. The detonation is carried out upon contact with the target or at the command of the operator through the Starlink system with 256-bit signal encryption. The price of such a BEC with all the filling is clearly an order of magnitude higher than the Wikipedia nonsense of 250.
        4. 0
          24 March 2024 01: 01
          Moreover, of these conditional 50 backs, some will survive and can return “to base.”
      2. +2
        6 March 2024 14: 45
        It won't crack. This is a completely doable task. And at AWACS there is definitely an operator for everyone.
        So far, BECs have been successfully attacking ships. And they can’t find direction in any way.
    2. +1
      6 March 2024 21: 51
      Quote: Bakht
      Control from a foreign drone or AWACS.
      A single ship will not survive such an attack.

      “Selfies with flags” come to mind. Four or five people per multi-seat landing boat... Why did the British train underwater saboteurs to land in the sea at full speed? Don’t you admit that the low-value carcasses left on the boats are a distraction from the specialists? They probably landed with the appropriate equipment. Everyone is looking out for spotters from the sea, and they are on our shore.
      There was a lot of chatter about "beauties" and the like. Why are they not in the sea? The ship's power plant is quite capable of providing these systems. Extinguish at sea, with intervals as you approach. This is not a machine gun, but it can also solve “pack” issues. You can use full power so that it can reach Turkey.
      We also need to think about underwater electronic warfare. They can also be jammed.
    3. +2
      8 March 2024 12: 14
      There is only one answer - you’re tired of wasps, don’t chase everyone, but burn the nest.
  2. +7
    6 March 2024 10: 24
    Dear author.
    You forgot to indicate fourthly, and that’s the most important thing.
    In the fight against al-Qaeda, the Americans did not chase every individual terrorist, but searched, found and destroyed the leader - Bin Laden.
    Why chase every single maritime drone if you don't do anything about it? decision-making centers.
    And the decision-making centers are reconnaissance drones, and NATO reconnaissance aircraft, and the entire Kiev junta, and the British MI6, and the American CIA.
    It is not the consequences that need to be fought, but the causes that give rise to them.
    But with ships everything is simple. If you cannot provide active protection for them, fence them off with steel boom nets.
    If they can’t swim safely, that means they can’t swim.
    1. 0
      6 March 2024 21: 32
      then Scalp will arrive
    2. 0
      6 March 2024 21: 56
      Yes, it’s good to whine already, show off something... there’s drool in every comment...
    3. 0
      18 March 2024 13: 45
      And what ? They installed a new leader! There are effective methods of struggle today, and they need to be practiced and improved. And the main thing is to cut off Ukraine from the sea.
  3. +7
    6 March 2024 12: 07
    Warn the amers that in the event of a possible attack on the Black Sea Fleet, the Global Hawk located on the northern side of the World Cup (now spinning around Turkey) will be instantly demolished, warn ONE time and shoot down any drone, they understand force well, only force.
    1. +1
      6 March 2024 22: 02
      Quote: nike
      Warn the amers that in the event of a possible attack on the Black Sea Fleet, the Global Hawk located on the northern side of the World Cup (now spinning around Turkey) will be instantly demolished, warn ONE time and shoot down any drone, they understand force well, only force.

      It’s not necessary to shoot down - blind, jam (don’t look in our direction, look back, otherwise you’ll catch a “bunny”, it will be very bad). We are not blinding them, we are blinding and jamming the BECs, but if you have problems, don’t fly where the fighting is going on.
    2. -1
      7 March 2024 00: 43
      God. There's probably already a blister on the warning sign. Need to

      blow them out of the sky

      and that's all. Including Poseidons and other Avaks.
  4. +5
    6 March 2024 12: 28
    This problem can be solved differently. For a plane or ship, destroy another power plant in the western outskirts. Without the possibility of recovery. With an explanation of what the retribution is for. In the western part there are only 5 power plants and a few high voltage substations. There are 3 power plants and 1 hydroelectric station near Kiev. All objects can be counted on the fingers and toes. The issue is completely solvable. It is illogical to leave untouched energy to the Hutsuls, while they are destroying everything and everyone in the east and south. And these are dual-use objects. This electricity powers trains with equipment and projectiles. They are killing our people.
    1. +1
      6 March 2024 13: 02
      Quote: Sergey Prutkov55
      ...For an airplane or ship, destroy another power plant in the western outskirts...

      Don't limit yourself to thermal power plants. Strike gas storage facilities. No gas means no electricity generated from gas, including for the needs of railway container power generators. Strike data centers. Or are the interests of “respected people” more important? It's high time to decide.
      1. +3
        6 March 2024 19: 41
        Quote: Zerro Zorro
        Strike gas storage facilities.

        Typical political illiteracy. Yes, for such proposals, the Russian oligarchs will destroy you with a missile strike. How will they pump money into their pockets? How will they financially support Zelensky?
    2. +1
      6 March 2024 14: 31
      Electricity already comes from Europe from time to time, so the effect of destroying thermal power plants will not be great, we have already tried it.
      1. 0
        6 March 2024 18: 32
        (Zorro) Blowing up an underground gas storage facility in Ukraine will cause fireworks throughout Europe for a long time. There is also a significant amount of EU gas pumped in there. Cutting off the power lines with Poland and Slovakia is doable. Yes, only we have a Strange Military Operation, where very much is not clear..
        1. +6
          6 March 2024 19: 52
          Quote: Vladimir Tuzakov
          A strange Military Operation, where a lot of things are not only incomprehensible, but also seem harmful to the Russian Federation..

          There are many questions for the “galley slave”. It’s not clear who they all (Kremlin inmates) work for.
          This war is a huge mistake or sabotage against Russia. It is unclear what to do with Ukraine after the victory and at whose expense.
          Thanks to Austria-Hungary, the Germans, and the Bolsheviks, Ukrainians formed a national identity and became a new nation. Now it is impossible to scroll the minced meat in the opposite direction.
          No matter how much money you throw at restoring these territories, the Ukrainians, like the Balts in the USSR, will suffer due to their independence and will be sure that without the Muscovites they would live like the Swedes and Germans. They will sharpen knives and bequeath them to children. Although the achievements of the Baltic states are clearly visible today.
          And you cannot abandon this territory. The territory cannot be abandoned.
    3. +3
      6 March 2024 22: 06
      Quote: Sergey Prutkov55
      This problem can be solved differently. For a plane or ship, destroy another power plant in the western outskirts

      It's a great idea to eliminate energy bottlenecks for BEC manufacturers. Although, most likely, they are brought by sea transport, which, for some reason, has not yet run into ukromina torn from anchors.
  5. +6
    6 March 2024 13: 55
    All discussions about protecting ships are nonsense. Without personnel decisions at the very top, everything is pointless. For now, the head of the Ministry of Defense, together with the admirals, will not think about war but about parades. Everything will be that way. How many ships has the Black Sea Fleet already lost? And that at least one admiral was laid off. Due to the fact that the fleet has decreased. Soon we will have more admirals than ships. At this rate, soon the parade in Sevastopol will be held on inflatable boats. We laughed at Ukraine and now the whole world laughs at us.
  6. +8
    6 March 2024 13: 56
    Until we take Odessa and Nikolaev, this problem will only grow.
  7. DO
    0
    6 March 2024 16: 43
    So far, BECs with onboard air defense systems have not been created. When they appear and with what characteristics, we'll wait and see. Today, the Ukrainian Armed Forces' BECs cope with their tasks quite well even without any airborne air defense systems. For an adequate shield has not yet been forged against the enemy’s not at all new sword.
    Therefore, today, in the shortest possible time, it is necessary to organize a network of reconnaissance UAVs in distant sea zones, patrolling by helicopters of the near zone around ships (especially if the ships went out to the open sea, and even at night), and duty fighters to destroy “wolf packs” detected by the UAV reconnaissance network in the distant zone.
  8. 0
    6 March 2024 19: 32
    What if we lay fishing nets or chain-link around the ship so that the propellers get tangled and stop these backs?
  9. 1_2
    0
    6 March 2024 19: 47
    what could have been done 14 years ago (2010 when Orlan10 began operating), namely, patrol the sea with Orlans in calm conditions (up to 16 hours of flight)

    Different configurations of UAVs can conduct surveillance in the optical and infrared range. "Orlan-10" can automatically determine the positions of turned on GSM phones, VHF communication stations, operating radars in the x-band. Electronic warfare equipment for the Orlan-10 allows jamming of GSM communications, as well as simple GPS receivers.

    - that is, Orlan can detect radio emission from BEC. then, having under-barrel grenades on board, fly up and hit the object; if the power of the grenades is not enough, then immediately use a ram with one higher-power ammunition on board (RPG). on a tip from Orlan back, you can hit the UFP with kamikaze drones (with thermal imagers), from on board a ship, or from Russian surface drones (based on rubber boats with an outboard motor), they must be on duty at a distance from the ship. Orlan can be a relay for a kamikaze UFP. in a storm, an attack is unlikely, but you must be prepared for an attack, press with reb
  10. 0
    6 March 2024 21: 39
    So far this seems to be a pouring from empty to empty.
    in 2 years, one side reached the pack tactics, known since the 1st World War. But without their frills - smoke screen, blinding, etc. The 2nd side is fighting back, according to the video nearby, almost right next to each other.
    Yes, one of the possible applications is BEC with air defense.
    But there are still a lot of other directions. With rockets (remember the rockets from Gaza from pipes)
    With torpedoes (mini ones, the main thing is to keep the course). With rab-bombs. with curtain and aerosols. And so on.
    The main thing here is who comes up with the first idea. since the security BEC, unlike a UAV, can calmly sway on the waves without wasting fuel...
  11. +1
    6 March 2024 21: 50
    Hinged steel nets that quickly fold down from the sides at a distance of 5 meters from the side and a couple of meters deep, a cheap solution that can be implemented in a couple of weeks, would have been done in the USSR in 2 days under the threat of execution. It will protect you from a landmine attack by detonating the charge at a distance. You just have to do it, and this requires severe responsibility, not withdrawal.
  12. 0
    6 March 2024 22: 34
    Somehow, in the “military acceptance” program, they demonstrated how a drone acts as a drone fighter. Accordingly the question? if this is so, then why can’t this thing be modified to perform the corresponding tasks - searching and destroying BEC.
  13. 0
    7 March 2024 00: 04
    More unmanned patrol boats armed with heavy machine guns, and meet BECs at long distances. Blinding enemy AWACS aircraft or burning out electronics, stop messing around with them.
  14. 0
    7 March 2024 03: 56
    Quote: WkLeron
    More unmanned patrol boats armed with heavy machine guns, and meet BECs at long distances.

    With the same success, you can place a naval torpedo under the belly of the BEK and launch it 20 kilometers to the target. There will never be enough boats. The characteristics of Soviet torpedoes were quite decent and it is unlikely that it could be damaged by machine guns.
  15. 0
    7 March 2024 04: 46
    Why not equip ships with flare shells and heavy machine guns with minimal recoil? Judging by the videos, everything always happens in pitch darkness. The crew, under the deck lights, are trying to make out the darkness. Although we are talking about the Black Sea Fleet. Fleet for resort and recreation
  16. 0
    7 March 2024 05: 44
    Submit a simple solution to the Ministry of Defense - install a metal mesh along the side of the ship at a distance of two to three meters.
    1. +1
      7 March 2024 07: 15
      Quote from Avedi
      Install a metal mesh along the side of the ship at a distance of two to three meters.

      Which will protect against the first blow, and then the second BEC will calmly pass through the hole. This protection works against unguided weapons.
  17. +1
    7 March 2024 08: 56
    Why doesn’t our defense industry start producing unmanned warships for the Navy? Let them produce 10/50 thousand of these units. Why?
  18. +7
    7 March 2024 10: 05
    The effectiveness of the backs is equal to the negligence and incompetence of our command. Nothing else. The ship with a displacement of 1800 tons was equipped with only 1 76mm cannon, which is useless, and 2 12,7 mm machine guns. A World War 2 patrolman with searchlights and anti-aircraft guns could have easily shot these backs. Here someone needs to be judged, probably for negligence. Surely, after 2 years, the watchmen do not have night vision goggles, not to mention more serious night vision devices, there are no additional searchlights, high-resolution radars have not been purchased, and additional turrets with machine guns have not been installed. These are basic things. We have a huge number of private boats that were stupidly driven into bays instead of allowing patrols to detect backs. Why not? The Americans did this to protect their coasts from submarines during the Second World War. We also do not have coastal posts with strong searchlights, which were in the USSR and shone for 5 miles, and automatic cannons. There is no need to make miracle weapons out of plastic boats, they are not like that.
  19. 0
    9 March 2024 13: 14
    An infantry mortar mine, if it has a reliable fuse, when it hits water, should create a horizontal fan of fragments within a radius of up to 100 meters. That is, to protect against BECs, ideally you need automatic mortars around the perimeter of the ship, which would complement other means of defense well.
  20. +1
    9 March 2024 18: 44
    Quote: prior
    Dear author.
    You forgot to indicate fourthly, and that’s the most important thing.
    In the fight against al-Qaeda, the Americans did not chase every individual terrorist, but searched, found and destroyed the leader - Bin Laden

    And what? Did they defeat al-Qaeda? They finished off the old man with the oxygen tank and darted out of Afghanistan, leaving behind their weapons and supporters. Personally, you look like a provocateur who is provoking a full-scale conflict with all NATO countries. If you respond to the Britons and the Amers, it will be through the Houthis, to help them sink a couple of troikas from the squadron off the coast of Yemen, it will be a mirror response.
  21. 0
    18 March 2024 14: 30
    It was not the mosquito fleet that was effective, but our defense that was leaky.
  22. -1
    26 March 2024 17: 54
    Yes, the fantasies of this author are simply off the charts.