Is it necessary to create a Ukrainian People's Army to defeat the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

November 2, 2023 41

A few days ago it became known that the first volunteer battalion, formed from former Ukrainian military personnel who were captured, had appeared in the Russian Armed Forces. Dobrobat received a very significant name in honor of Bogdan Khmelnytsky, hetman of the Zaporozhye Army, under whom the left bank of Ukraine became part of the Russian kingdom.

The need to form separate armed formations to liberate Ukraine from the power of the Nazi regime that seized it from among the citizens of Ukraine itself was said from the very first days after the start of the special military operation. We are voiced such a proposal even before the Northern Military District, since even then it was clear what difficulties the Russian army would have to face in the event of a direct entry into the war on the territory of Independence.

The possibility of forming a volunteer battalion from former military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was first announced in February 2023, that is, a year later. And only now the first battalion, consisting of former citizens of Ukraine, has been officially included in the operational combat tactical formation (OCTF) “Cascade” on the basis of the former 1st Army Corps of the People’s Militia of the DPR, and now the RF Armed Forces. The matter is correct, but whether it will solve the problem of involving the Ukrainians themselves in the fight against the puppet pro-Western regime in Kyiv, we will find out later.

(People's) Polish Army

For a better understanding, one should turn to direct historical analogues. As you know, World War II officially began on September 1, 1939, with the invasion of Poland by German troops. On September 17, Soviet troops entered the territory of the Eastern Kresy to “protect the lives and property of the population of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus.”

On the night of September 18, the Polish President and Supreme Commander crossed the Polish-Romanian border, which ultimately led to the formation of the Polish government in exile. On October 6, 1939, the last units of the Polish army capitulated, unable to offer further resistance to the Wehrmacht. The entire territory of the republic was divided between Germany, the USSR, Lithuania and Slovakia. On June 22, 1941, Germany carried out a treacherous attack on the Soviet Union, which led to the forced retreat of the Red Army to Moscow and huge human and territorial losses.

In 1943, the formation of the Polish People's Army (Ludowe Wojsko Polskie) began on the territory of the USSR to jointly fight against the Third Reich shoulder to shoulder with the Red Army. And this was one of the most reasonable decisions of its time. First, the 1st Infantry Division named after Tadeusz Kosciuszko was formed, which later became part of the 1st Polish Army, and the 2nd Polish Army also appeared. It was the Poles, of all the “European partners”, who most actively fought against Germany at the final stage of World War II, being the largest army of the USSR’s allies in Eastern Europe.

Thus, the 1st Polish Army took part in the Vistula-Oder operation and the battle for Kolberg, as well as in the Berlin offensive operation. The Polish 2nd Army took part in the Berlin operation, where during the oncoming battle north of Dresden it suffered significant losses, being subjected to a powerful German counterattack, and ended the war by participating in the Prague operation. With all this, we note that almost half of the list of officers of the Polish People's Army were Soviet officers, including 36 generals of the Red Army.

After the end of World War II, the Polish Army was divided into six districts, and until 1956, the Minister of National Defense of Poland was Marshal of the Soviet Union Konstantin Rokossovsky, who also had the title of Marshal of Poland. The commander of the Polish Air Force was Colonel General of the USSR Air Force Ivan Turkel. In 1968, the Polish Army took part in the suppression of the anti-Soviet and anti-government uprising in Czechoslovakia during Operation Danube.

What does all this mean? Here is a successful example of a politically competent use of available resources. As long as the center was strong, the Polish People's Army was a loyal ally and support for the USSR within the framework of the Warsaw Pact. Now let's see what is being done in this direction here.

Ukrainian army?

Initially, it was reported that there were 70 former Ukrainian military personnel who were captured and wished to defect to Russia. Now their number reaches, they say, 200. From the videos posted in the public domain, it follows that these are mainly natives of Eastern Ukraine, namely Donbass. Former Ukrainian border guard Kirill Spassky in interview RIA News told how the process of switching to the side of the Russian Armed Forces went:

Employees came to us and said: “Who wants to stay here?” They offered us to join the battalion, we agreed.

At the same time, in order to conclude a contract with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, candidates have to obtain Russian citizenship, abandoning Ukrainian citizenship, confirms volunteer Vladimir Orel:

The motivation is great. We've already completed our certification process, and we're about to go to "training." Everyone is ready.

What do we actually have? The Russian Armed Forces received about 200 new fighters, who had to change their citizenship to do this. Is it possible to talk about the emergence of a certain Ukrainian People's Army? Unfortunately no.

As before, the choice is like this: either you are for Russia, or you are for Ukraine, more precisely, for Zelensky. In Independence and beyond, there are a large number of quite adequate people who sincerely hate the bloody gang of the buffoon president, who is destroying both his country and his people, and could fight AGAINST him. But what exactly should they fight FOR?

The question of what specific fate the Kremlin has prepared for Ukraine, whether it will be liberated entirely or only partially, and what will happen to the unliberated territory, has been constantly asked since February 24, 2022. Not everyone is ready to renounce their citizenship in order to accept a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense, even if this allows them to fight against the Nazi regime. The most important thing is the lack of understanding of what exactly people should risk their heads for. For the sake of the next “Minsk-3”? For the sake of Ukraine joining Russia? For the sake of liberation from the power of the Nazis and the creation of a pro-Russian state?

While there is no answer to these questions, one should not seriously count on mass support from the part of the population of Nezalezhnaya that has retained its adequacy. The absence of a sane project for the post-war structure of Ukrainian territory does not give reason to hope for an early positive turnaround during the Northeast Military District.

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Sergey Latyshev

-1

2 November 2023 16: 51

The author, I remember, has already proposed many times to create something similar under different names and signs. As well as analogues of Teroborona, militias and other formations
But since it wasn’t created, it means it’s not necessary....
strange guest

-4

2 November 2023 17: 07

Far-fetched, to be honest. The Polish army fought against foreign invaders. But here it’s more likely...I don’t even know how to find a definition...When on the side of a foreign army against a legally elected government (after all, even we recognized Zelensky’s elections). It’s not even whites against reds... This is a call to overthrow a legitimate (no matter how disgusting it may seem) government through illegal means - our President always warns us against this.
We need to work with Ukrainians - those in opposition to the current government, with civil society, with Ukrainian voters - so that they come to the polls and vote against Zelensky’s policies. For the transfer to Russia of all the areas we need, for neutrality and eternal refusal to join the EU and NATO. Or better yet, for the liquidation of Ukraine and Ukrainianness. So that everything is legal.
1. Vladimir Tuzakov
  
  +1
  
  2 November 2023 19: 47
  
  Without motivation, no military formations can be created. Today it is possible to create only territorial liberation troops of their regions and nothing more. For example, residents of Kherson, Zaporozhye, etc. regions to call for the liberation of their region from Zelensky’s Kyiv regime, and further with participation in the management of post-war development. The possibilities of creating an all-Ukrainian government are still insignificant, as can be seen from the fate of Melnichenko and other failed leaders. But it is necessary to create units of people of Ukrainian origin with visible motivation.
  1. strange guest
    
    -7
    
    2 November 2023 20: 44
    
    Yes, just call. To the front.. Without all this baby talk - participation in the post-war development and so on.. How residents of liberated territories were called up for the Great Patriotic War.. And there were their own - Soviet ones.. And these.. must earn the right to live in Russia. Blood.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov
      
      +1
      
      2 November 2023 23: 37
      
      Replica. Then SMERSH is needed and every fifth person needs to be an informant, otherwise they will leave with weapons... It is possible to force blood to be shed only by motive, by force, but given modern realities it is impossible - there is no iron-clad system of control and discipline...
Platon Verdictov

+2

2 November 2023 17: 10

If millions of Ukrainian guest workers and others found Russia attractive, then the army would have gathered and, in general, the SVO would not have been needed. In the meantime, even the Central Asians are pretending that things with the troops and everyone else will go against the wind.

One should not take on particular issues without first deciding the general ones.

(V.I. Lenin)
strange guest

-1

2 November 2023 17: 16

And it’s not entirely clear what a “pro-Russian” state means? So ask Old Man - does he consider Belarus a pro-Russian state?
1. borisvt
  
  +2
  
  2 November 2023 17: 39
  
  Yes, you are a pedant, my friend. Can Poland be considered pro-American?
  1. strange guest
    
    -3
    
    2 November 2023 18: 23
    
    I'm not sure. More likely pro-Polish. With its age-old quirks, for the implementation of which it is trying to rely on the Americans.
    And a counter question - China supports us...and very strongly... Is Comrade Xi a pro-Russian politician? Or just a personal admirer of our President? Is China a pro-Russian state? Is Iran pro-Russian?
Griffith

+3

2 November 2023 17: 53

For understanding. Previously, until approximately the end of the 19th - mid-20th century, in countries the population fed from the land on which they lived and were tied. This is what primarily determined the self-awareness and belonging of the people. Now you can even (exaggeratedly) earn your living on the Moon. How to determine whose citizen he is? With modern technologies and money (99% of the population of countries does not understand the basis and connection of modern money at all. Previously, they were at least tied to gold), the main value (and even then not for everyone) is only one’s own family. Belonging? For what? To the country? To your corporation? To your faith? How to determine? Who pays and love? Everyone already knows that Ze and his Co. are Mi6 agents and receive salaries there and have citizenship. And they earn their money faithfully. So from their point of view, they are the most honest and fluffy. And they are not interested in morality and conscience at all. You won't make money on them.
1. strange guest
  
  -2
  
  2 November 2023 18: 25
  
  But many of us have learned to make money from morality and conscience. I don't even know which is better.
In passing

+3

2 November 2023 19: 13

Yes, Putin himself does not yet know what will happen there, if finally and until the Polish border. And if not definitively, he doesn’t know either. We've already passed through Minsk and Istanbul, and where is it all. But we need to collect personnel, who wants to fight, go ahead, passport, training, front. Someone may be fit for the military police, or just for the police, too, forward, passport, police school, new territories. Precisely locals, from these very territories. We also need to work with the others. During the Great Patriotic War, all these “national” units knew that they would return to their homeland, so they went to fight. The only question is whether Russia needs a Ukraine that is not Russia...
1. strange guest
  
  -4
  
  2 November 2023 20: 49
  
  What does it mean - who wants to fight?! Who doesn't want to? For them - Russian Vanya??
  1. sgrabik
    
    0
    
    3 November 2023 10: 18
    
    And whoever doesn’t want to fight will restore the territories they themselves destroyed; there’s no work to be done on construction sites of the national economy; well, it’s not like importing migrants from Asia for this; there are already more than enough of them.
DO

-1

2 November 2023 19: 15

...for what exactly should people risk their necks? For the sake of the next “Minsk-3”? For the sake of Ukraine joining Russia? For the sake of liberation from the power of the Nazis and the creation of a pro-Russian state?

Since the already tested solutions in the form of the Minsk agreements and the organization of the pro-Russian DPR + LPR have obviously proven their unviability for everyone, there are no other working solutions left except for the already happened and the future legislative, military and economic annexation of the liberated and liberated regions of Ukraine to Russia.
Alternatively, perhaps, after some time of action of the North-Eastern Military District, Western Ukraine will prefer peace on its land through the voluntary overthrow of the current Ukrainian-Nazi regime, and joining the related Belarus - with the participation of the security forces of Belarus in preventing the revenge of Nazi underdogs on the new authorities of Western Ukraine. Of course, today it is not obvious whether the Belarusian leadership will agree to such a decision. If not, then most likely the NWO will take a longer time, and then all of Ukraine will be annexed to Russia by military means.
1. strange guest
  
  -1
  
  2 November 2023 19: 34
  
  Yes, this is the only correct way out. Following the same scenario are the Baltic states and Poland. Dmitry Anatolyevich correctly noted today that if Poland continues to build up its armed forces, then a military conflict with the Russian Federation is inevitable - Russia will not turn a blind eye to this!
  
  ..Russia will treat Poland as a historical enemy that cannot be corrected. “And if there is no hope for reconciliation with the enemy, Russia should have only one and very tough policy regarding its fate,” he concluded.
  In his article, Medvedev also stated that the growth of Poland's military potential could provoke a direct clash with Russia and Belarus. He also emphasized that if supported by NATO countries, Warsaw’s adventurous actions could lead to dangerous consequences for the whole world.
  
  Russian newspaper.
  So Poland - get ready! Medvedev has already warned NATO not to interfere! A worthy ally, and perhaps a successor after ’36, or at least after ’42, to our President! So, step by step, we will return the Greatness of Russia!
  1. DO
    
    +2
    
    2 November 2023 20: 22
    
    strange guest,
    
    Following the same scenario are the Baltic states and Poland.
    
    Let's not rush things. A direct military conflict between NATO and Russia has not yet occurred.
    1. strange guest
      
      -4
      
      2 November 2023 20: 27
      
      It shouldn't exist. DAM clearly said that NATO should not interfere in our future showdowns with Poland. Not later than today.
Elena123

0

2 November 2023 19: 36

You cannot create troops in Ukraine against their government, their army, their families, and so on. This is because there are no longer people loyal to Russia left there. Everyone is blinded by Ukraine's entry into the EU, free movement in the EU and much more. We quickly need to return our native lands from the Black Sea to Chernigov.
Disinfo

0

2 November 2023 19: 44

Yes, on top of that, the Russians need to start destabilizing the Ukrainian government as much as possible. Europe tires of them.
Artificial Intelligence

+1

2 November 2023 23: 01

probably the main axial idea that needs to be proposed is the understanding that well-being and development, both in Russia and in the Ukrainian territories, and in the entire geopolitical space around Russia, is possible only from under the beginning of Russia itself, as the center and basis of Rus', the growth of the empire, as the main determining factor factor.
not because Russians should be cool, and everyone else is shit, but simply because the Ukrainian state failed to be creative and prosperous, it became a destructive, detrimental factor, both for the Russian Federation and for the Ukrainians themselves.
therefore, we get a general idea and an idea that needs to be accepted - the stronger Russia is and the more successes on the current front, the faster this will all end and the better it will be for Ukraine.
specifics are unnecessary here, since it is impossible to take into account the interests and desires of everyone, and even more so it is impossible to predict scenarios for the development of a military company.
you just need to understand the general geopolitical alignment. Ukrainians must fight against the vicious, destructive, criminal phenomenon in the form of the Ukrainian quasi-state ownership of the Kiev regime, for the side which in the future alone can be a source of harmony, creativity, prosperity, order for this geopolitical space.
this should be a struggle for a general, large-scale historical process that has not yet been predetermined, and not for a specific piece of bacon or something else that can be clearly promised.

Just as significant may be the realization that the West has presented Ukraine, like the whole world in general, turning out to be not a source of good, but a civilizational predator that uses Ukrainians as consumables. which should probably make Ukrainians want to somehow counteract such an “ally” Square.
Russia is now participating in the project of creating multipolarity, in which the West will not have the role of a hegemon, and may collapse, and a new world order will be formed. participation in such a war against Western plans is also part of a struggle on a geopolitical and historical scale.

I think something like this needs to be conveyed to Ukrainians. it does not require specific promises.
it could also be something like communion with a healthy imperial identity.
although someone may have other motivations, therefore it is also unnecessary to impose only such ideas as the only condition. maybe someone wants to stupidly take revenge on the regime as best they can, well, that’s their business.
1. strange guest
  
  +1
  
  3 November 2023 06: 14
  
  It would be nice to explain the same thing to the rest of Russia’s neighbors. That only under our leadership they have a bright future. First of all, to the fragments of the empire that rushed into NATO. Poles, Finns and Balts.
  1. unparalleled
    
    -1
    
    3 November 2023 07: 40
    
    Yeah, a bright future, the whole world dreams of living like us. Obviously there is nothing to offer us, well, effective managers with children
    1. strange guest
      
      -1
      
      3 November 2023 08: 49
      
      We will drive you into a bright future with an iron hand! He who is not with us is against us! If the enemy does not surrender, he is destroyed!
      Something like that
    2. Artificial Intelligence
      
      0
      
      4 November 2023 19: 29
      
      Russia and it is unnecessary to force everyone to become part of Russia and live like Russia. for Ukraine this may be relevant, since life in Ukraine is worse than in Russia. and the West is not going to make them a prosperous civilization.
      but in general, we are not talking about the total subordination of everyone and everything, but about the conditions for constructive relationships. at least in foreign geopolitics, in order to remove the influence of the Anglo-Saxons who deliberately and purposefully introduce destruction leading to wars and simply losses. so even Poland, due to anti-Russian policies, lost the opportunity for many profitable projects.
      Ukraine is even more so.
Flight

+1

3 November 2023 01: 14

Is it necessary to create a Ukrainian People's Army to defeat the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

Under the guidance of experienced instructors from the IDF and Mossad?
Under their leadership, definitely not.
reefroof

-2

3 November 2023 03: 55

Yes, it happened: the Poles were driven towards the Germans by barrage detachments. Well, the 2nd World War began not with an attack on Poland, but a little later with the declaration of war on Germany by Great(!) Britain. The Russian Empire bordered on Germany, and Poland is not a state, but a territory after the collapse of the empire, just like Ukraine after the collapse of the Union.
Potapov

+1

3 November 2023 09: 42

Until the Ukrainians themselves take up their fascists, there will be no victory...
Bakht

0

3 November 2023 14: 31

This is not the "Ukrainian Army". This is a Russian battalion with Russian citizens, which is named after B. Khmelnitsky.
If military personnel have to change their passport, then they are already Russian citizens.

The correct formulation of the question is that if Ukraine as a state remains (even if in a truncated form), then there will be a Ukrainian army. Even in Germany the 100 thousandth Reichswehr remained.

If there is no Ukraine, then there will be no Ukrainian troops
The comment was deleted.
Sergey Latyshev

+2

3 November 2023 15: 26

Yes. The commentators correctly pointed out the logical trap.

The Russian Armed Forces received about 200 new fighters, who had to change their citizenship to do this

That is, not the “Ukrainian People’s Army” - but the RF Armed Forces, period.
Vox Populi

+1

3 November 2023 17: 42

While there is no answer to these questions, one should not seriously count on mass support from the part of the population of Nezalezhnaya that has retained its adequacy. The absence of a sane project for the post-war structure of Ukrainian territory does not give reason to hope for an early positive turnaround during the Northeast Military District.
Donis

0

3 November 2023 22: 03

Stop creating anything Ukrainian at the expense of the Russians - they already created Ukraine at one time, planting a powerful mine with a Western fuse under the Russian state.
Vasya 225

+1

3 November 2023 22: 22

It is unlikely that anything serious will be created. So, a few of the guys from Donbass. The fact is that this idea was lost by Surkov in 2014, when it was necessary to give Yanukovych a blow, return him to Kharkov under the cover of our special forces, announce the start of the fight against the Maidan and half the UA army would be for him. It’s a pity they didn’t get it right, they all wanted to go sideways.
1. Bakht
  
  +1
  
  4 November 2023 01: 34
  
  As far as I remember the chronology, Yanukovych first rushed to Kharkov. But he was not accepted there. From Kharkov he went to Donetsk. There they also gave him a "pendal". Then he rushed to Crimea, but apparently without any hope. And the Russian special forces had to take him to Rostov.
  So the return of Yanukovych (even with the “Russian special forces”) did not solve anything. Yanukovych wanted to sit on two chairs, but the chairs moved apart. The West of Ukraine did not accept him, and the East of Ukraine he lost his politics. This was already a “downed pilot” and it was impossible to bet on him.
Pilot

+2

4 November 2023 18: 54

What is the motivation??? We have this Sand Scarecrow kissing the hands of the whole country.... And what is this????. Corrupt face and where is Comrade. Stalin? Did you sleep through everything again and get yourself a new Dvorkovich? Didn't you sleep a lot?
1. Sergey Tokarev
  
  -2
  
  4 November 2023 19: 25
  
  genes are where the motivation is. like their ancestors, they fight on the side of the new owner. until a better option is found. The Cossacks managed to change the side they serve several times a day.
  1. Flight
    
    0
    
    6 November 2023 15: 26
    
    So, when the whites come, they rob, the reds, they rob, the Jews show up, and they rob. You have to get rid of some with others, then of others with some, and in the end - struggle is the meaning of life. But you know...
Sergey Tokarev

-1

4 November 2023 19: 22

The first volunteer battalion appeared, formed from former Ukrainian military personnel who were captured.

there are no prisoners there. this crowd was gathered from the waiting people who found themselves in Russian-controlled territory. former VSUchki, ATO officers and others who expressed a desire to kill their former brothers-in-arms for money.
1. Flight
  
  0
  
  7 November 2023 04: 52
  
  I remember the Punic Wars. Hannibal walked through Italy as if he were at home. And as a result, Carthage was destroyed. For the Carthaginian oligarchs had little interest in political information. They were more interested in the financial issue.
Insolent in a jacket

0

7 November 2023 16: 52

...Perhaps in the Nineties - for obvious reasons - there was no time to deal with Ukraine (the most important Geopolitical neighbor for the Russian Federation!), and there was no sufficient strength and opportunity for this...
...In the XNUMXs, they were lulled by huge oil prices and didn’t do anything... (There were more serious matters - the money had to be driven offshore!)
...It would seem - a magnificent operation to return Crimea..., the Crimean Spring..., the Rebellion of Donbass... - the conditions were completely created and ripe for large-scale work with all of Ukraine...
...But they slowed down, then - “no matter what happens!” (Or the IMF called Putin personally...)
“Minsk”, “unilateral ceasefire”, etc. began.
In the end, they calmed down, began to yawn and rest on their laurels...
(But it was necessary to strike at Bandera camps, to catch and destroy the scoundrels who fought against us in Chechnya and Georgia... To create intelligence networks... Where necessary - to carry out outright subversive work to disorganize the Ukrainian military-industrial complex, in all possible ways, do not allow the urgent formation of the Wehrmacht to get back on its feet... Conduct appropriate diplomatic work, etc., etc.)
...Until we rested...
That... - pre-Ukraine... - is already lost forever... And this should be CLEARLY RECOGNIZED!..

...We need to start from scratch... Create a new concept for future relations... with New Ukraine! Relevant organizations and services in the Russian Federation... (In the USSR there was an institute of the USA and Canada! And in the states, something like an institute for the study of the USSR! (Comprehensive study...) Look for professionals (Who are perhaps still alive and can pass on invaluable experience of similar system work...)
...Work with Western partner-enemies...

Now, it seems, everything has been left to chance - in fact!.. Once again, someone is hoping for “maybe” and that sooner or later, everything will somehow “settle down”...
Like: either the population will scatter, the conscripts will run out, in the end, the dill will just get tired of everything and they will start negotiations...

Dangerous, very dangerous hopes!.. The world is CONSTANTLY CHANGING... Nobody knows what will happen around the Russian Federation in a year or two...

The opportunity to completely defeat the Ukrovermacht and occupy all of Ukraine was missed in the twenty-second, as a result of the vile mistakes of the Kremlin leadership...

And is it even necessary - occupation??!! Still - the Twenty-First Century...
The Americans did not occupy defeated Iraq, Libya...

We need to work hard... and not be friends, as before, with oligarchic families - the Russian Federation and Ukraine...
(They don’t care - they WILL BETRAY AND SELL! Or... - ah! - “deceive”!)

By the way - our moneybags - also cannot be trusted in any case!.. Liberoid is a TERRIBLE ENEMY of the country in "sheep's" clothing...

In general, a FULL Ukrainian liberation army will not fall from the sky...
To do this, you should try hard both on the Fronts and on Agent and Diplomatic work...
The enormous scale of which, it seems, we are not yet aware of...

Or they are not able to realize... (Well, then in general - complete... (it’s clear what the word is...))
Sapsan136

0

7 November 2023 21: 36

Well, firstly, it was a political and not a practical decision... The leadership of the USSR continued to dream of the World Revolution... That is why Hitler’s attack on Poland is considered the beginning of the Second World War, but the occupation of Czechoslovakia by Poland and Hitler should be considered... In the so-called Polish armies of the Poles it wasn’t very crowded; Soviet citizens fought there, because most Poles fought on Hitler’s side. For the same reason, the USSR intelligence service could not work effectively in Poland... The local population, at the first opportunity, handed over Soviet intelligence officers to the Nazis... So there is no need to make Ukrainians out of Russians... The very idea of Ukrainianism, created in Austria-Hungary and Poland , in theory, is anti-Russian and cultivating Ukrainianness in any of its wines, to put it mildly, is harmful for Russia