Sobering up: how Ukrainian society has changed in one and a half years of SVO

24

In the previous ARTICLES, dedicated to the analysis of the interim results of a year and a half of armed conflict in Ukraine, we found that each of its parties made three major strategic mistakes that led the confrontation to the current format of a positional war in the Donbass and the Azov region. During this time, Russian society has already changed a lot, but how was Ukrainian society transformed?

"Meat"


As of September 7, 2023, the Ukrainian counter-offensive in the South-East of the former Nezalezhnaya did not live up to even a hundredth of the expectations that were clearly placed on it. Yes, the enemy has some progress, but so far it has not brought strategically significant results, while it is paid for by really huge losses in manpower and technology, including a completely modern western one.



Now it is not the “people’s policemen” who are forced to go on hopeless “meat assaults” on Russian minefields, but the Ukrainian Armed Forces themselves. The enemy's losses during the summer counter-offensive were estimated by Russian Defense Minister Shoigu at 66 thousand killed and 7,6 thousand various weapons:

The Kiev regime, despite colossal losses, has been trying to conduct a so-called counter-offensive for three months now. The Armed Forces of Ukraine did not achieve their goals in any of the directions.

The contrast with what happened last September in the Kharkov region is simply striking. Let us recall that then the Ukrainian Armed Forces, during the first counter-offensive, were able to easily break through the only thin line of Russian oporniks and make deep breakthroughs into our rear with significantly superior highly mobile forces. In order to avoid encirclement and destruction, motley units and units of the Russian Armed Forces, the People's Militia, the National Guard and BARS, which did not have reliable communication and control among themselves, had to hastily “regroup”, leaving vast territories.

Obviously, that stunning success in squeezing the Russians out of the Kharkov region in just three days, which was preceded by a “gesture of goodwill” to leave the Russian Armed Forces in the Kiev, Chernigov and Sumy regions, really turned the head of the Ukrainian patriotic public and greatly inspired the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Autumn, winter and spring passed under the pressure of alarming uncertainty, and in Kyiv they were rubbing their hands with impatience, expecting that they were about to “break in.”

Hangover


The correspondence between the once popular allegedly pro-Russian blogger Anatoly Shariy and his wife Olga will be very indicative here. On May 26, 2023, she wrote verbatim the following in her telegram channel:

Let's counterattack. I would like to see how they "break in" well.

To which, from distant Spain, her husband Anatoly answered as follows:

Completely agree with Olga. These scum must be smashed... And in such a way that no filthy spirit remains. There can't even be two opinions. Definitely.

And then the other day, the author of these lines accidentally came across a video on YouTube, recorded a couple of weeks ago by Kiev resident Alena. In it, she, an undoubted patriot of her country, talks about how much the Ukrainians’ attitude towards the war has changed. The video has already received one and a half million views, it is in the public domain, so we will post it on it reference. What does it say?

If initially the bulk of the population, exposed to official propaganda, had a very positive attitude towards the war, expecting that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were about to recapture their lands and everything would get better, now sobering up has begun to come. The positive mood was influenced by expectations of receiving new Western weapons, which were sure to help defeat the Russians. True, the timing of the final defeat was constantly shifted.

Today, according to Alena, the mood in society has changed a lot. Everything that was promised to them six months ago has gone somewhere and forgotten. Now in Kyiv they are saying that the war will be very long, then subside, then resume, and in the end Ukraine will simply be divided. Peace treaties will not be implemented. There is nothing left of the positive fighting spirit; ordinary people are looking for options to leave Nezalezhnaya so as not to participate in the endless war. The Kiev resident also mentioned Mr. Arestovich, who in the spring of 2022 predicted that Ukraine would have to turn into something like Israel.

Thus, after a year and a half of war, against the backdrop of the failures of the counteroffensive, which had inflated expectations, ordinary Ukrainians began to understand that there were no prospects for victory. If you look at this from the bell tower of Russia’s national interests, then such a sobering up, perhaps not of all, but of part of the population of the former Independence, is a manifestation of positive dynamics in the course of the Northern Military District. We will talk in more detail separately about how this factor can be used by both sides of the conflict.
24 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -1
    7 September 2023 14: 38
    now sobering up began to come.

    Please note that now we do not have a single expert and our politician, they even say approximately when this SVO will end, and even more so how and where? And what does it say? And it says that everyone is happy with everything! And it is worth waiting for the continuation of the "banquet". And the fact that information about the dissatisfied slips, and we have a lot of dissatisfied. But in Ukraine, these dissatisfied people are given weapons "forcibly" and sent to kill Russian soldiers. Why don't these dissatisfied weapons be turned against? But because they all consider Russia an enemy! They don't want to die, but killing is easy!
    Battle of Kursk from July 12 to August 23! We already have three months and when will our counteroffensive be? This is me to the fact that we are being bred as the last ... ignoramuses! At first we were told that now we will prepare the mobilized and how we will give it. Then, that we will wait for the counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and how we are breaking! Now we will wait for the EU to send Ukrainian refugees to war, the US to send F-16s, etc. And let's wait until the Armed Forces of Ukraine start shelling the Urals and Siberia, as they are now shelling the Crimea and Moscow.

    ordinary Ukrainians began to understand the lack of prospects for victory.

    I certainly believe that we will win! But I do not agree, as with "Minsk", to wait a few years!
    1. +2
      8 September 2023 07: 30
      Please remind us, who and when announced the deadline for the completion of the SVO from the Russian side?
      And why should you (us), armchair experts, be told when the RF Armed Forces go on the offensive? Can you tell me more about the direction of impact and how many?
      1. +1
        8 September 2023 15: 06
        and who and when announced the deadlines for the end of the SVO from the Russian side?

        Oooh, kids, what a short memory you have! And when Putin launched the Northern Military District with small forces and attacked the superior forces of the enemy, it was he who supposedly expected to fight until “infinity.” Is this all going according to plan?

        And why should you (us), armchair experts, report when the RF Armed Forces go on the offensive?

        But the West reports everything to us and says what and how! Or you didn’t know about the supply of weapons to Ukraine, the training of militants, about the start of the Ukrainian offensive. They have already announced the delivery of F-16 aircraft in December-February and a new counter-offensive in the spring. And we, the couch potatoes, just want clarity on how this SVO should end. We need an end goal!! Instead, we constantly hear about negotiations.

        Can you still strike directions

        We already know that Ukraine should be cut off from the sea! Bridges across the Dnieper must be destroyed. Here's the direction of the strike! And without the sea, no one needs Ukraine! And if Ukraine leaves the sea, it simply means freezing the conflict.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      8 September 2023 09: 05
      you may be being bred, but everything is clear to me as "bright daylight" ... now the main priority is the minimum losses among our personnel, then, as soon as the operational-tactical situation allows, and the strategic goals have not changed, everyone knows about them!
      1. +4
        8 September 2023 15: 18
        these are the minimum losses among our personnel,

        What is the minimum loss? In Afghanistan, 10 thousand people died in 15 years, and according to Prigozhin, 20 thousand died and 40 thousand were wounded in Artyomovsk alone. Or do you think that the longer the war goes on, the fewer our losses?

        but the strategic goals have not changed, everyone knows about them!

        We only know about the negotiations that we are constantly told about. And the fact that Ukraine refuses them until Russia returns to the borders of 1991. If Putin does not tell us about our goals of the North Military District, then tell us if you know about them!!
        1. 0
          8 September 2023 19: 55
          If Putin doesn’t tell us about our goals of the North Military District, then tell us if you know about them!!

          How is it that Putin doesn’t talk about the goals of the North Military District? In my opinion, Putin has already repeated several times that the goals of the North Military District are the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +1
      8 September 2023 14: 33
      It is unlikely that the war will end this year. This is due to the presence of sufficiently armed and trained reserves, which either exist, or it is unclear whether they exist. And a long war in conditions where the economically stronger West will sponsor Ukraine will not end well for Russia, even in conditions of limited victory. Russia will emerge from the long war weakened with an embittered population in the new territories and the rest of Ukraine. And there is no way out if there are no reserves with weapons. And in that case. Only a nuclear strike with tactical weapons on the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Ukraine can stop the savage West.
    5. -4
      8 September 2023 14: 35
      Quote: steel maker
      But I do not agree, as with "Minsk", to wait a few years!

      Then your presence, at the LBS with weapons in your hands, will undoubtedly bring closer the defeat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
      1. +2
        8 September 2023 15: 35
        Then your presence, on the LBS with weapons in hand,

        Here, explain to me the couch, if you did not receive education in the alley. Why should I be present with arms in hand at the LBS, and not at the head of the government or as president???
        1. -1
          8 September 2023 19: 59
          steelworker, do you want to be President? Well then, start preparing for the elections! By the way, how are things going with your election program?
        2. -2
          8 September 2023 20: 48
          Since we live in a democratic country, you can certainly stand as a candidate in the presidential elections of the Russian Federation. You can also try to demonstrate your business and personal qualities so that the president will submit your candidacy to the Duma for approval for the post of chairman of the government. It’s still easier to find yourself on the LBS - just call 117.
  2. 0
    7 September 2023 15: 06
    During this time, Russian society has already changed a lot, but how has Ukrainian society been transformed?

    And how has it changed, and most importantly in what direction?
  3. 1_2
    -1
    7 September 2023 18: 57
    The Kiev resident also mentioned Mr. Arestovich, who in the spring of 2022 predicted that Ukraine would have to turn into something like Israel.

    - well, the Maidan (Zion coup) was originally carried out by the Zionists of the State Department to build a second Israel or the resettlement of Israel from the sands of BV. I’m sure the Jew Arestovich put a literal meaning in his words, it’s just that Svidomo have not yet understood what really happened to them, and they continue to believe that the Jews came to power (through a coup) in order to build a “prosperous Ukraine,” and for this it is enough that the Jews of Ukraine ( in power) with the help of the Jews of the State Department, they transplanted Square from the neck of the Russian Federation to the neck of the EU. and then Svidomo will “get into trouble” - the EU Central Bank will pay helicopter money to all Svidomo just like that, namely for Svidomo’s betrayal of the owners of the land on which they live. Georgians, Asians, Armenians, Baltics, Azerbaijanis also think... and they don’t care that Baltic Bulgarians, Poles, Romanians, Greeks, etc. (EU-NATO members) are homeless around Europe in search of a piece of bread and live under bridges. This (in their opinion) definitely should not happen to Svidomo, because they surrendered land not only large and rich in resources, but also located under the heart of Russia (a springboard), Svidomo understand perfectly well that they made a huge gift to the West, which even Hitler with the entire military machine of Europe subordinate to him, he could not give himself. and the West will supposedly forever owe Svidomo for this. who knows, maybe Svidomo’s dreams would come true (but most likely the hungry Svidomo freeloaders would simply be kicked out to the East in the Russian Federation or taken to Africa, so as not to interfere with the Jews of Israel settling in the new promised land)
    1. GIS
      +2
      8 September 2023 14: 50
      and what are they minus? Ukrainians are probably from the fact that as a true option
  4. +5
    7 September 2023 19: 29
    Ordinary Germans also sobered up after Stalingrad...
  5. +5
    8 September 2023 04: 01
    The withdrawal of our troops from near Kyiv is the main reason for today’s battles for the forester’s hut.
    The Kremlin trusted its partners on their word of honor... as a result, we saw the executions of Russian teachers and the administration of Kupyansk in the ravines near it.
    Politicians' mistakes lead to large-scale tragedies and prolongation of the war.
    1. +5
      8 September 2023 10: 13
      Quote: Alekey Glotov
      Withdrawal of our troops from near Kyiv

      And how long would they have held out near Kiev, with their rear columns destroyed and without ammunition?
      It's a miracle that managed them promptly save.

      Sergey Marzhetsky Thus, after a year and a half of war, against the backdrop of the failures of the counteroffensive, which had inflated expectations, ordinary Ukrainians began to understand that there were no prospects for victory.

      The Internet warriors are still determined and are now pursuing F-16 deliveries.
      They are also firmly convinced that for every Ukrainian hero there are 10 “orcs”, that every day they take out our rear lines and batteries, and that the truce will just allow the Russian Federation to restore those rear lines.

      It would be very desirable to occupy more territories than the Armed Forces of Ukraine occupied near Rabotino.
      What would the result of the company in 2023 be for Ukraine, at least a small, but minus.
      What would be something to be sad about for the heroes on winter evenings, and start thinking about whether the company of 2024 will be a plus

      Well, troll the Ukrainians with the fact that while they are prevailing there - the Russian Federation, even under sanctions, lives a full life, opens new roads, bridges, airports, hospitals, schools - and not only in Moscow.
  6. +1
    8 September 2023 12: 24
    ...that means Shariy is just a bastard!
    And in general, I think how Ukrainians after "independence" turned into a huge amount of Russophobes and Nazis ... and continues. Defeat or dreams of victory have nothing to do with it.
  7. +3
    8 September 2023 12: 33
    80 years ago Dobass was liberated by the glorious Red Army from the German occupiers.
    Eternal memory to everyone who died then!
    And eternal memory to all Russian soldiers and officers who now died during the liberation from Bandera’s fascists!
  8. 0
    8 September 2023 15: 40
    In general, as always!

    Being determines consciousness!

    the ancient wisdom of the Sumerian philosophers!
  9. 0
    8 September 2023 16: 12
    Sobering up: how Ukrainian society has changed in one and a half years of SVO

    I would like to know when we will start to give out really lyuli.

    Obviously, that stunning success in squeezing the Russians out of the Kharkov region in just three days, which was preceded by a “gesture of goodwill” to leave the Russian Armed Forces in the Kiev, Chernigov and Sumy regions, really turned the head of the Ukrainian patriotic public and greatly inspired the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Autumn, winter and spring passed under the pressure of alarming uncertainty, and in Kyiv they were rubbing their hands with impatience, expecting that they were about to “break in.”

    But we haven’t started anything yet, except for regroupings and mobilization. Who really likes to harness, when will we go?
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  11. -2
    9 September 2023 15: 28
    Stubbornness cannot be cured. Svidomo is being treated long and hard. Europe deceived them by dangling the carrot of admission to the EU. They have a longer time before that appointment than Turkey, and even that is still in the background. They will wash away the betrayal with blood, that’s all. The Kremlin has drawn conclusions from the “gestures” and “regroupings”, and is now methodically destroying the Mankurts. This society has not yet realized anything. Alas. And the Russians also need to be prepared that it won’t happen quickly. It doesn’t happen quickly when people feel that their dream has been taken away from them.
  12. +2
    10 September 2023 12: 27
    My mother-in-law’s husband is from the Kherson region, he’s been living in Sevastopol for a long time, he didn’t move yesterday. He constantly goes to visit his mother there. He says that the lands of Ukraine are being prepared for Jews, they will move there. And that’s why crests are cut out so that they don’t get in the way. As I see, at first the Jews wanted to make Crimea theirs ala Israel, but it was a bit of a disappointment, eastern Ukraine with the fertile Kherson region is better than the desert of Israel, so it will also come.
  13. 0
    13 September 2023 18: 28
    I also had an epiphany... The Central Election Commission, through the mouth of Panfilova, announced that there are 65 million registered voters in Russia. If there are 145 million of us Russians, then it turns out that there are 80 million children under the age of 18??? So they made a mistake, Zyuganov was right when he said that there were 90 million of us left (a year ago)...