What is MT-LB capable of with an artillery ship turret

61
What is MT-LB capable of with an artillery ship turret

The appearance on the Web of photographs and videos of some strange-looking hybrid of a "motorbike" and a ship's anti-aircraft gun made a lot of noise. It turned out that this was not just another amusing "shushpantser" produced by the Ukrainian Kulibins, but practically a serial production of the domestic military-industrial complex. What can the birth of such a "bastard" of the Ground Forces and the Navy of the Russian Federation in the second year of the NMD testify to?

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It is reported that on multi-purpose lightly armored floating tractor transporters (MT-LB), they began to massively install towers with a 2M-3 double-barreled automatic naval artillery mount of 25 mm caliber, originally intended to provide short-range air defense of Russian warships. According to some reports, instead of the native 25 mm cannon, two 14,5 mm KPVT machine guns were installed in the turret. At the same time, observant spectators and readers in the comments noted that the “motorcycle league”, which was not originally designed for the installation of such a tall heavy superstructure, noticeably sat down on its “hind legs”.



Frankly, when looking at this “bastard”, the author of the lines felt very unpleasantly in the region of the heart. While the Abrams, Leopards, Bradleys, Marders and Strikers are waiting for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, such a miracle is going to strengthen our fighters equipment. The opinions of the Russian audience were also sharply divided. Surprisingly, there were quite a lot of those to whom this decision seemed successful and timely. The main argument “for” is that there are a lot of 25 mm and 14,5 mm ammunition in our country. In conditions of "shell hunger", the presence of which cannot be hidden, such help at the front may be useful.

The combat use of this "bastard" is seen as follows. Firstly, due to its all-terrain ability, it can be used as a highly mobile firing point for infantry support. Secondly, an armored personnel carrier can be buried in the ground, from which only the gun turret will stick out, pouring fire on the advancing enemy infantry. Thirdly, it is assumed that the coaxial machine-gun installation will be used to cover military and other significant objects from attacks by low-flying kamikaze drones like our Geraniums. However, there are nuances.

Using a lightly armored MT-LB with a lightly armored turret sticking high above it as an ersatz BMP will definitely not lead to anything good. This armored vehicle is simply not structurally designed to perform such tasks, and it itself will turn out to be a very noticeable and convenient target for enemy anti-tank systems. Burying the "motorbike" into the ground and turning it into a long-term firing point would make sense if the turret armor was strong enough. But 4 mm steel is only capable of protecting against light small arms and shrapnel. If you can put these "bastards" anywhere, then somewhere in the trenches near Feodosia, so that they can fire a certain number of shots at the landing Ukrainian marines. As for the use of MT-LB with a ship's turret as a mobile air defense system, not everything is clear here either.

For the guaranteed performance of air defense tasks, anti-aircraft equipment is needed, designed for this according to the staffing table. This, for example, ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" or "Tunguska". If the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation likes the “motorcycle league” platform so much for its reliability, then back in Soviet times, the 9K35 Strela-10 anti-aircraft missile system and its various modifications were created on its basis. It was originally designed to destroy low-flying small-sized targets on a "fire-and-forget" basis. The very thing that is needed to provide cover for ground forces and significant objects from "kamikaze" drones. However, instead, some strange-looking "bastard" is produced, in which it is completely incomprehensible how its ship's turret should spin and exactly how the shooter should aim at the target. No regular locator on MT-LB is provided in this configuration. Aiming, it turns out, will have to be seen from the tower, it’s good if you’re not on the move.

In general, this decision is very strange and incomprehensible, causing many questions.

air defense business class


Here I would like to draw attention to a very resonant statement by the head of the State Duma Defense Committee Andrei Kartapolov, who advised Russian companies to take care of their air defense on their own:

Russian companies should independently purchase air defense systems to fight drones, since the funds of the Ministry of Defense are focused on covering important state and military facilities. There are fairly inexpensive means of combating unmanned aerial vehicles that every self-respecting corporation can purchase and put on their facilities.

Obviously, this is a belated reaction to the appearance of “kamikaze” drones in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, with which they can now hit strategically important targets deep in Russian territory. But the mere raising of the issue of shifting responsibility for air defense from the state to business caused a feeling of mild puzzlement in many Russians.

First, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation handed over supplies to those mobilized in the RF Armed Forces at the mercy of the governors. Then big Russian capital wanted to acquire its own private armies. And now, on behalf of a representative of the ruling party, a retired general, he is being offered to create his own private air defense system. What's next? Corporate Strategic Rocket Forces?

If this trend continues, creation The territorial defense troops in the border with Ukraine and our other potential adversaries will become uncontested, so that people on the ground have the opportunity to somehow defend themselves in an organized manner. As a matter of fact, nowhere, except for the TerO, "motorcycle leagues" with machine-gun turrets are really useful and cannot. To ensure the security of border settlements from DRGs and other threats, light infantry units from among the local residents, preferably motorized, are needed. By analogy with the Syrian experience, large-caliber machine guns, automatic grenade launchers, and MANPADS shooters can be massively installed on the basis of pickups and trucks.

Such “carts” are capable of patrolling, providing fire support in the event of a collision with an enemy sabotage group, quickly transferring reinforcements from among the Teroborona fighters, and providing a semblance of local air defense against “kamikaze” drones.
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  1. +16
    6 March 2023 12: 02
    I can imagine how they laugh at "this", receiving "marders" and "strikers".
  2. +14
    6 March 2023 12: 27
    well, some especially "gifted" people even welcomed this wunderwaffe, it all reminds me in 2014 of the construction of armored cars from garbage cans by the outskirts, apparently the Moscow Region has already reached such a level
  3. -2
    6 March 2023 13: 26
    Ha. Write faster...
    "What is capable of ..." - absolutely not disclosed and unclear, because. not only the performance characteristics are not known, they were seen only 1 time in total ....

    Because the tower, although old, is anti-aircraft (that is, of high quality), then if you install a modern means of aiming and communication, you can get quite an anti-aircraft gun against UAVs.
    Of the 2 outdated, but fairly run-in systems from warehouses - cheap and angry.
    The question is, did you install it?
    1. +3
      6 March 2023 17: 26
      Yes, fuck the ass accordion? Isn't "Shilok" lying around in Russian Federation? belay How not to assure that "Shilki" are outdated for modern warfare ... nevertheless, they will "one or two" beat this "iron kaput" on MT-LB! Yes
      1. +2
        7 March 2023 10: 14
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Yes, fuck the ass accordion? Isn't "Shilok" lying around in Russian Federation? belay How not to assure that "Shilki" are outdated for modern warfare ... nevertheless, they will "one or two" beat this "iron kaput" on MT-LB! Yes

        probably all Shilka and Tunguska were safely sold somewhere in Africa.
      2. +1
        10 March 2023 17: 17
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        How not to assure that "Shilki" are outdated for modern warfare ... nevertheless, they will "one or two" beat this "iron kaput" on MT-LB!

        They won't furnish. Compare shells 25 mm and 23 mm and be surprised.
        The author threw it on the fan in a hurry ...
        We have a task - to shoot those who get into boats right on the other side of the Dnieper.
        For this task, these settings are quite suitable. Including in terms of firing range (compared to Shilki).
        ZNPP must be protected and defended reliably.
  4. +2
    6 March 2023 14: 20
    Obviously, this design was created for some specific case, for some specific tactics that are still unknown to us (the topic of shooting from behind the parapet is visible). A simple increase in firepower is easier and more efficiently solved by installing a ZU-23 on the roof and has long been worked out (and placement on the stern itself and not in the center speaks of some kind of specific idea).
    1. 0
      10 March 2023 22: 48
      Quote: mark1
      Obviously, this design was created for a particular case.

      Drown the enemy on the Dnieper.
  5. +1
    6 March 2023 15: 31
    it is completely incomprehensible how his ship's tower should spin

    The installation is anti-aircraft and spinning. The vertical guidance angle in the 2M-3 installation is from 10 ° to + 85 °, and the horizontal one - up to 120 °.
    1. +1
      7 March 2023 08: 54
      Quote: Vlad Petrov
      The installation is anti-aircraft and spinning. The angle of vertical guidance in the installation 2M-3 from 10° to +85°, and horizontal - up to 120°

      If I understand correctly, the question is not about the angles of rotation, but about the turret drive and the angular velocities of horizontal and vertical guidance. A coaxial machine gun can be manually aimed vertically at an acceptable speed, but what kind of drive is horizontal aiming? The tower with a shooter and a coaxial machine gun has a mass of at least 350 kg and try to turn it manually. Moreover, with an acceptable angular velocity.
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  8. +7
    6 March 2023 18: 26
    Laudatory articles are about to come out about the excellent characteristics of the compound bow and glued arrows as an excellent means of defeating enemy manpower with minimal noise. High rate of fire, low noise, confident defeat at real distances of small arms combat: 50-150 meters.
    And then they will praise crossbows, slings, spears and, like a crown, a club!
    Everything goes to this. In fact, everything leads to it. And by no means imported enemies.
    1. 0
      7 March 2023 01: 01
      A cavalry army is still needed, for archers.
    2. +2
      8 March 2023 04: 14
      Well, as Peskov said, they are building "the Russia that we lost", and in that Russia in 1915 there was also a shell shortage, and due to a lack of weapons, the command seriously discussed arming the army with pikes and halberds.
    3. +1
      8 March 2023 08: 37
      The governor rolled his bloodshot eye in their direction, yelled:
      - Tsyts, be quiet there, a new type of weaponry is being accepted! Let's move on to the testing phase!
      At his signal, the servant dragged a healthy pig into the barn.
      - Solid, take a broadsword!
      A thin, thin young fellow with a barely breaking mustache, shrugged his shoulders, took his broadsword, and went into the barn. There was a short yelp, then a juicy slap, and everything was quiet.
      Tverdilo went out, handing the bloody broadsword to the blacksmith.
      Bring object number one here! - ordered the governor.
      The warriors fussed with enthusiasm, dragged the boar, anticipating a festive treat.
      Meanwhile, a second boar, a little smaller, was dragged into the corral.
      Goroboi! - announced the governor, - take a club!
      Goroboi, a huge peasant, easily threw up a club with a spiked ball on the end in his hands, entered the barn.
      A second later there was a sound of a heavy blow, and a loud squeal of a pig. Another blow, it looks like Goroboy hit the wall of the barn. A clatter was heard inside - the boar was trying to escape. Another blow, and Goroboy’s curses were heard from the inside, again blows of “chavk-chavk-chavk”, the barn trembled and spikes of the club appeared from the damaged wall. The goroboy pulled the club towards himself, but at that moment there was a sound of a powerful collision and a loud cry of the hero:
      - Ahh! Ayyy! ! Disfigure!
      A couple more blows, the barn buckled - the corner post collapsed. Inside, the blows merged into a series, jets of blood and tufts of pig bristles flew from the breaches in the barn. The screeching didn't stop. A couple more blows, and finally - the roar of the fall.
      From the doors of the barn, swaying and crouching on the left side, came the whole boar covered in blood.
      Borov looked at the fighters, squinted at the governor, grunted contemptuously.

      The blacksmith approached, and with an involuntary movement stabbed the winner.
      The soldiers rushed inside, and soon pulled out Goroboy - he had a torn leg from the knee to the groin.
      Several experienced warriors immediately rushed to help, took a leg in a splint, bandaged it, stopped the blood, pressing the wound with all sorts of rags.

      Object number two will immediately go to the sausage? - specified foreman Selivan.
      The voivode turned his face to stone:
      - Both objects for examination! And bring the club here!

      After some time, Goroboy was taken to a military sorceress, the kind grandmother Agafya, the blood from the hogs was poured into tueski.

      The war continued the acceptance procedure:

      - Object number one, a small triangular wound in the region of the heart, the back of the skull is cut to the medulla oblongata. Death was due to acute blood loss and damage to the brain pathways.
      Object number two, multiple lacerations throughout the body, broken ribs, dislocation of the left forelimb, contusion injuries to the head, back, sides, and ham. Also a small triangular wound in the region of the heart.
      Death came from multiple injuries incompatible with life, pain shock, and sudden cardiac arrest against the background of psychological trauma.
      - In, as he says!
      - Our governor is the head! - buzzed the fighters, involuntarily twisting their mustaches.

      - Based on the results of the examination, the commission came to the conclusion that work on the adaptation of the Khazar broadsword should be continued.
      At present, it should not be adopted.
      The absence of a serious psychological impact on the enemy, a weak contusion effect, the general high cost of the product does not allow it to be accepted into the troops.
      Yes, the broadsword is lighter and longer than the club, but this is where its advantages end!
  9. +1
    6 March 2023 18: 45
    I have never voted for anyone ... and I don’t like Muscovites .. if what .. but I can’t help but ask: but for you, at least nearby, at least 12,7 mm didn’t fly in? In general, 14.5 is an ass if they shoot at you. Neither behind a sandbag, nor behind a wall of 3 bricks, you can sit out. My korefan (the kingdom of heaven to the warrior Michael) in the BRDM was caught by spirits in an ambush - one line, minced meat inside. If you use these ugly ducklings wisely ...
  10. +1
    6 March 2023 18: 57
    Quote: Vlad Petrov
    it is completely incomprehensible how his ship's tower should spin

    The installation is anti-aircraft and spinning. The vertical guidance angle in the 2M-3 installation is from 10 ° to + 85 °, and the horizontal one - up to 120 °.

    And what? Without a radar and other related equipment, why is it more dangerous for business than two shooters, let's say with a PKM or a PPV?
  11. +4
    6 March 2023 18: 57
    But the mere raising of the issue of shifting responsibility for air defense from the state to business caused a feeling of mild puzzlement in many Russians.
    First, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation handed over supplies to those mobilized in the RF Armed Forces at the mercy of the governors. Then big Russian capital wanted to acquire its own private armies. And now, on behalf of a representative of the ruling party, a retired general, he is being offered to create his own private air defense system. What's next? Corporate Strategic Rocket Forces?

    Hmm, what then does Shoigu's department do, arrange parades and upgrade equipment in the troops up to 70% according to their own reports, but in fact we send a similar product to the troops ?! But is Mr. Shoigu in his place, the GDP did not think about this ?! In the end, you can go fishing with another, but you will have to answer for the "activities" of the Minister of Defense, especially since it also hits the president's rating, after all, the people perceive Sergei Kozhugetovich in the post of the Ministry of Defense as Putin's man.
    1. +4
      7 March 2023 08: 47
      if there is a question, is Shoigu in his place, then logically the question is, who put him in this position and whether this person who put him in his place. Many questions, no answers
    2. +1
      8 March 2023 04: 21
      Isn't he a GDP man? Since the GDP keeps him in this position, it means that Shoigu’s activities correspond to the expectations and tasks assigned to him, but no one says that it should meet my, yours or someone else’s expectations. And about answering, did someone answer for something, at a high level? For the failed project 2020, for the education reform, for the medical reform, for the lost hundreds of billions kept by Western partners. Where do you get such crazy hope that this time someone will answer for something?
  12. -6
    6 March 2023 19: 06
    This motalyga is created from stocks in the warehouses of the Pacific Fleet. Basically for pennies. And junk from warehouses is selected. If a decision is made to free the warehouses from Soviet stocks with further replenishment, then this is a great idea. If anyone does not know, America did exactly the same and for some reason no one laughed.
    1. +1
      6 March 2023 19: 35
      Quote: Griffit
      America did exactly the same and for some reason no one laughed.

      However, everyone without exception laughs at Ukrainians in the same situations. Personally, for me, such a sensible reaction of the topcore visitors was unexpected.
    2. +5
      6 March 2023 19: 52
      Sofa strategist, ordinary Russian guys will have to fight on this miracle, with minimal protection, but in fact without it at all.
    3. +1
      8 March 2023 09: 45
      Disposal of old stocks is a good thing ... if this disposal would not be carried out together with the crew of this #analogue.
  13. +4
    6 March 2023 20: 49
    Also paint it yellow, a childish shade. This thing is useless against drones without means of detection and fire control. Not by eye, the shooter will work out. And in an ordinary small arms battle, the tower will be demolished immediately from some kind of RPG. To not stick out. I'm not funny, I'm sad. It is necessary that its inventor and acceptance officer test it on himself.
  14. -9
    6 March 2023 20: 59
    For sofa "experds". In Afghanistan, the most modern weapons were used against the natives. Do you know the result? Do you know what prevents a bad dancer? None of you yet know where and how this hoe will be used, but you are already giving out your "expert" opinion about the effectiveness of this weapon. This is one of the signs of idiocy. Smart people are waiting for the results, on the basis of which they will draw conclusions. And everything else is idle talk and verbiage.
    1. 0
      6 March 2023 23: 24
      What do you have against the war in Afghanistan? The military did not exactly lose it. And the losses were minimal. According to your logic, why do we need Almaty, Sarmatians when there is a hybrid of a tractor and a submarine? Patrol boat in the steppes of Ukraine!
    2. +6
      7 March 2023 01: 24
      They say the May 9 parade is being prepared. Perhaps they brought her there?
      1. +1
        8 March 2023 09: 48
        Both Almaty and Coalitions will be at the parade. Only there they can be seen. By the way, if I had been in command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, I would have started the spring offensive on May 9 or a few days before. At this time, in the Moscow Region and the General Staff, everyone has nothing but a parade, so it’s quite possible to reach Moscow in a couple of days, just in time for Victory Day. Take part in the parade.
    3. +2
      8 March 2023 04: 24
      Smart people can see in advance that you can’t make a bullet out of Mr., they don’t need test results for this. But all sorts of stubborn ones will prove to the last that the bullet is excellent, although it does not kill the enemy, but it humiliates!
  15. +4
    6 March 2023 21: 38
    I propose to put a hut with a stove on a BMW, and a toilet will fit next to it, beauty, but even if it’s under pancakes! I have no words! top engineering thought!
  16. +3
    6 March 2023 21: 40
    Guys, don't get into this barrel, let the generals personally test it on the battlefield!
  17. +1
    6 March 2023 21: 44
    everything is much simpler - which is better, hoes at the front, and anti-aircraft towers in warehouses or hoes at the front with anti-aircraft towers?
    1. +2
      7 March 2023 08: 47
      Better - that this "front" would not exist at all!
    2. +1
      8 March 2023 10: 02
      Smart people first look at what you have in the warehouse, and then they open the fronts, and ... less smart people, on the contrary, first get involved ... in the NWO, and then go to the warehouses, look at their contents, and scratch their turnips in thought .
  18. +3
    6 March 2023 21: 48
    You don’t know what you’re capable of, probably just neighing, but it looks like an armored car from the times of the revolution and the civil war, write “Fighter for freedom comrade Lenin” on the barrel!
  19. +4
    6 March 2023 21: 55
    It can be seen that neither Tunguska nor shilok remained in the storerooms. It looks like the generals sold them all for scrap. It was not from a good life that this freak was blinded. Something reminded me of the KV-2, with its ridiculous turret. First, the T-62 was used, now this hybrid of a motorcycle league and a fire tower. What will be interesting next?
    1. 0
      7 March 2023 16: 35
      Kv2 is a chic fighter of the cat family.
      1. +1
        7 March 2023 16: 56
        Quote from elefantito elefantito
        Kv2 is a chic fighter of the cat family.

        Kv2 is a chic pillbox gnawer of the Mannerheim line.
        as a tank destroyer, he finally did not show himself, low rate of fire and accuracy, high silhouette ...
        You are probably confusing it with the Su-152.
    2. 0
      8 March 2023 04: 27
      nuclear guns
    3. 0
      8 March 2023 10: 04
      The Tsar Cannon is idle in the Kremlin. Never shot? Here he shoots!
  20. -1
    7 March 2023 00: 38
    Properly used, these machines can mess things up! The key point is right!
    1. +4
      7 March 2023 02: 12
      Quote: Anrey
      Properly used, these machines can mess things up!

      Let me remind you that the current war is not an operation against makeshift Afghans or Syrians. Ukraine has modern Western weapons capable of detecting and destroying hundreds of T90 / T82m tanks, etc. And it's not just Javelin. No infantry will shove this miracle Yudo.
    2. +1
      8 March 2023 10: 09
      Qualified personnel need good tools in order to do their job well. The legends about Lefty, who shod a flea without a small scope (recall that she stopped jumping after that) and other unique specialists who make delicious and nutritious sweets from waste products, are adored by negligent managers who are unable to provide their subordinates with what they need to complete tasks. This is especially true for the army.
  21. +2
    7 March 2023 01: 06
    Nano, however. In Skolkovo, lard swelled up and you will get it.
  22. -1
    7 March 2023 08: 45
    After reading all this, no one still asks the main question - what did not live before February 24, 2022 ???
    1. 0
      7 March 2023 16: 39
      But who knows them? Many people were exterminated in the Donbass, millions fled the country. You ask Poroshenko and Zelensky. They definitely know the answer.
  23. +1
    7 March 2023 09: 31
    this suggests that not everything is as good with us as our MO and power describe, since they begin to scrape in the bottom of the barrel ...
    1. 0
      7 March 2023 16: 40
      The motorcycle league does not look like a bun, whatever one may say.
      1. +1
        8 March 2023 10: 11
        More like a box. With appropriate crew protection.
    2. 0
      8 March 2023 04: 29
      Well, if you watch TV, there are only discussions about how bad it is to live in the West and what problems they have. We are fine!
  24. -2
    7 March 2023 09: 32
    Quote: Grei Grin
    You don’t know what you’re capable of, probably just neighing, but it looks like an armored car from the times of the revolution and the civil war, write “Fighter for freedom comrade Lenin” on the barrel!

    Firstly, she swims, and secondly, it’s excellent to mow dill along with the grove in which they sit, to shoot down drones and helicopters laughing
    1. +3
      8 March 2023 04: 30
      But it’s not a fact that with this design she will be able to swim. Floating motorcycle league + ship turret is not the same as that it all floats
  25. -2
    7 March 2023 10: 03
    Any weapon will find application in an armed conflict, if you know how to use it.
    1. +2
      8 March 2023 10: 13
      Do you know how to use a club? So why not on the front lines, with their weapons? There you will demonstrate the validity of your thesis.
  26. -1
    7 March 2023 11: 03
    Could this be fake? I don't want to believe in such nonsense.
  27. +1
    7 March 2023 16: 00
    Bury for a long time, put in ruins and press the infantry.
    You won’t shoot down drones with this, you won’t have time to aim.
  28. -1
    7 March 2023 21: 15
    The author, before writing on any topic, first check whether it is fake or not. And this is 100% fake in many obvious ways. Starting at least with the fact that this will not work, since ship systems have a completely different principle of interfacing, power supply and supply of ammunition compared to armored vehicles. And secondly, she has the same weight as in the MT-LB itself, if not more, and this is unlikely to be able to budge. Although, maybe you are doing it deliberately, then the question is, why?
  29. -1
    7 March 2023 23: 10
    You can argue for a long time what is bad and what is good. But what can you do now, as it is, it is. Well, if they couldn’t make anything better, except for such a "monster". And how to apply. They definitely won't be redundant. If, of course, they can get to the front line with these birdhouses, get there. And in which case they will quickly throw them off and turn them into ordinary MTLBs.
  30. 0
    22 March 2023 19: 20
    the creation of a kind of terrible ran into the unfortunate VSUshnik
  31. 0
    22 March 2023 19: 29
    this is a trial step next installation of ak-130 or ak-725, at worst ak-630, this will be a show, if at least something works!
  32. 0
    April 11 2023 10: 50
    Even a muzzle-loading rifle of the 1812 model, correctly used, can harm the enemy. The main thing is that these hybrids should be considered as some kind of addition in excess of the standard one. Yes, good! No, there is no court.