The Russian Navy and the FSB Coast Guard should exchange several ships

The Russian Navy and the FSB Coast Guard should exchange several ships

Russia is a country of contrasts, and sometimes it is difficult to understand it with the mind. The way the already small surface forces of the navy are distributed raises a lot of perplexed questions. Almost unarmed and defenseless patrol ships are being built here for the Russian Navy, and formidable frigates are serving in the FSB Coast Guard. Why this happens, let's try to figure it out.


"Doves of Peace"



Only the lazy have not yet trampled on the patrol ships of project 22160. In the course of a special military operation to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, it turned out that these ships, poorly armed and completely defenseless against missile attacks, nicknamed “doves of peace” for this, do not bring any real benefit in the Black Sea.
It got to the point that ground-based Tor-M2KM air defense modules had to be hoisted and chained onto their helipad deck, just to give the ship a semblance of a chance to survive an air raid or an anti-ship missile launch. In the domestic press, this lewdness was tolerantly called the “air defense corvette”.

Enthusiasts from the fleet are now proposing to somehow re-arm them: install the Shtil air defense system, the Paket-NK light anti-aircraft defense system and deploy an anti-submarine helicopter. After that, it may turn out to be something capable of performing at least some auxiliary tasks as part of a ship strike group. However, this decision cannot be called anything other than the word "ersatz". The reason is simple - from a patrol ship built using civilian of technologies, trying to mold a real warship.

Alas, this is simply impossible, and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation finally decided to say goodbye to this dubious idea, limiting the series to only six ships originally ordered. In fact, 36 billion budget rubles were thrown to the wind. But, perhaps, the "doves of peace" will still find application, even if not in the navy?

"Nerei"



This is the time to remember about other Russian ships, which are also used not quite for their intended purpose. This is the project of patrol ships 11351 "Nereus". We have already touched on this topic in part, telling about the project of the frigate 11356 "Talvar", developed by the Nevsky Design Bureau for the needs of the Indian Navy.

It is based on the Soviet patrol ship of project 1135 (1135M, 11352 and 11353) of the near and far sea zone Burevestnik. One of the representatives of this series, the Selfless TFR, became famous for the fact that the American cruiser Yorktown was expelled from the territorial waters of the USSR using the bulk method. For their time, the Petrels were exceptionally successful anti-submarine frigates, surpassing American frigates in many performance characteristics.

On the basis of this project, project 1135.1 "Nerei" was developed for the needs of the Border Guard Service of the KGB of the USSR. Its main task was to control the 200-mile sea economic zone in the Far East and North. High speed and excellent seaworthiness have made these patrol boats outstanding in their class. However, for simple patrol ships, these ships are too heavily armed, and for full-fledged warships, they are underarmed. These include, for example, the former Ukrainian flagship Hetman Sagaidachny, which was flooded in Nikolaev. On the basis of the successful 1135.1, the Indian frigate of project 11356 "Talwar" was created, and that, in turn, formed the basis of the Russian frigates of the "admiral series" of project 11356R.

Exchange



Currently, the Naval Forces of the Coast Guard of the Border Guard Service of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation have only two patrol ships of the Nerey code - the Dzerzhinsky PSKR and the Eagle PSKR. Both serve in the Pacific Ocean, detaining Russian and Japanese poachers, inspecting violating ships.

Taking into account their excessive armament for conventional patrol ships and the acute shortage of large surface ships in the Russian Navy, the possibility of transferring the Orel PSKR to the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation or using it as a donor for the repair of ships of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Federation has long been considered. The second option is clearly inappropriate in view of the situation in which the Russian Navy finds itself today. However, there is a rational grain in the idea of ​​transferring patrol ships from the Coast Guard to the Navy. Both surviving Nereus can be repaired, upgraded and put into service, turning them into quite decent anti-submarine ships, in which we have an acute shortage.

Instead, the Coast Guard should be given out of sight all these awkward ships of project 22160. The frank delusion of the situation is that the “doves of peace” were originally developed specifically for the naval units of the Border Guard Service of the FSB of the Russian Federation, and not for the Navy. The Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation managed to push through a series of six almost unarmed and defenseless patrol ships at once through a scheme worthy of a serious check by law enforcement agencies. In principle, the “doves of peace” are incapable of fighting, but catching poachers (pirates) is something that they can really do, bringing at least some benefit to the country.

And now, in fact, we have patrol ships in the Russian Navy, and serious warships in the Coast Guard. Logics...
36 comments
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  1. Dingo Offline Dingo
    Dingo (Victor) 16 July 2022 14: 35
    +5
    Perhaps I will say heresy, but the most "unsinkable" in the Russian Black Sea Fleet is its commander ... The flagship "Moskva" would confirm ...
  2. Vox Populi Offline Vox Populi
    Vox Populi (vox populi) 16 July 2022 15: 24
    +3
    Border ships at one time were partially "demilitarized" ...
  3. mark1 Offline mark1
    mark1 16 July 2022 15: 49
    +3
    Attacks on pr.22160 are biased and for the most part on the herd principle. Well, what civilian technologies are we talking about here? Initially, along the avenue, a full-fledged air defense system and a helicopter and other "gadgets" were laid down, but the management wanted the configuration of the yacht (that is, the cant is not a project, but sailors). If you now give the command to redo it "as expected", it will immediately become clear to whom to send questions about the non-combat readiness of 22160, which means the project is to blame. Well, the claims are original - for example, "weak booking" (this is on a corvette, on which booking is not allowed by definition, well, except for a patrol armored boat!)
    Conclusion Before succumbing to instincts, it is worth thinking a little, education should allow.
    1. Hot Dyusha Offline Hot Dyusha
      Hot Dyusha (Dyusha) 17 July 2022 16: 06
      0
      All these reflections from ignorance of the situation. And the situation is such that we have defenseless ships. On paper there were modules, but on paper we have aircraft carriers and destroyers and large ships. But in fact, by 22160 there is not a single module in the metal. Although the ship is modular. So it turns out that somewhere out there he might have been conceived as a combat unit, but only in thoughts. In fact, a reason to cut money
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 20: 42
      0
      I agree, it was Timokhin and Klimov who launched the idea and everyone who likes to wash the bones of others enthusiastically supported, and of course Sergey Marzhetsky (Sergey), as he does not know how to think freely, but rather repeat after others, who does not know psychology and maritime affairs, bought into and repeats after his idol Timokhin .... and meanwhile, these patrolmen turned out to be more useful at the Black Sea Fleet than 1164 ingloriously sunk, and 11356 prudently holed up in the port, if the information about the lack of modules for the modular corvette is correct, then they need to be urgently done, and not to criticize actually unfinished ships. ... First of all, Nerei are old, and secondly, it will be uncomfortable for patrolmen on the ocean, and even for trips from the Sea of ​​​​Japan to the Bering Sea, and of course they cannot be donors to the Pacific Fleet, because there has not been a single 1135 there for a long time, but there is a Black Sea Fleet a couple of old men Ladny Inquisitive, practically these are artillery ships with conditional combat capability, and it makes no sense to add a couple of them, soon to be scrapped ..... At the same time, he told them a parable:

      no one puts patches on old clothes, tearing off new clothes; otherwise, the new one will be torn apart, and the patch from the new one will not fit the old one.
  4. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
    Michael L. 16 July 2022 16: 00
    -1
    I also have a "revelation" from a respected Author:

    Russia is a country of contrasts, and sometimes it is difficult to understand it with the mind.

    F.I. Tyutchev:

    Mind does not understand Russia,
    No yardstick to measure:
    She’s special to become -
    You can only believe in Russia.

    November 28, 1866

    But in fact: it is possible that this publication will be of interest to specialists!
  5. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 16 July 2022 18: 47
    -3
    Quote: mark1
    Attacks on pr.22160 are biased and for the most part on the herd principle. Well, what civilian technologies are we talking about here? Initially, along the avenue, a full-fledged air defense system and a helicopter and other "gadgets" were laid down, but the management wanted the configuration of the yacht (that is, the cant is not a project, but sailors). If you now give the command to redo it "as expected", it will immediately become clear to whom to send questions about the non-combat readiness of 22160, which means the project is to blame. Well, the claims are original - for example, "weak booking" (this is on a corvette, on which booking is not allowed by definition, well, except for a patrol armored boat!)
    Conclusion Before succumbing to instincts, it is worth thinking a little, education should allow.

    For example, engines in the same room. Why not civilian technology? I always think what if. smile
    1. mark1 Offline mark1
      mark1 16 July 2022 19: 58
      0
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      For example, engines in the same room.

      Have you seen it yourself? Will you show a picture (at least in the form of a drawing)? )))
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 20: 48
      0
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      engines in one room

      on small warships this is often
    3. Dart2027 Online Dart2027
      Dart2027 14 August 2022 11: 20
      0
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      For example, engines in the same room.

      Given that ships have not been armored for half a century, this does not really matter. When hit, anti-ship missiles will smash everything at once.
  6. Navigator Offline Navigator
    Navigator (Andrei) 16 July 2022 19: 34
    +1
    Utter nonsense from the mouth of the author. project 1135.1 is old trash, which is not much different from patrol ships. As an air defense ship, he is no. Two Osa air defense systems were good for the 80s, but today they are rubbish. Torpedo tubes also do not meet today's realities. the AK-100 complex slightly increases the value of the ship. RBU - I don’t even want to comment. For the border guards, the ship is redundant, but for the Navy it is of no value. What a patrol ship, what PSKR - both are just a burden for the fleet. And to call 1135.1 a serious warship means to show yourself as a complete layman in this matter. And the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbto repair and modernize the PSKR is generally crazy. How much it will cost the budget and how long these old ships can still serve after that, the author did not guess. Maybe it's better to write about something that has at least some understanding of the issue, and not to make the audience laugh.
    1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
      Yuri V.A (Yuri) 17 July 2022 02: 33
      +2
      Navigator, according to your logic, why keep and even more so modernize even more "trash" - BOD project 1155?
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 21: 40
        0
        Quote: Yuri V.A
        BOD project 1155

        1155 are the best ships of the USSR Navy, they are still the basis of the surface fleet, this is the development of 1135x, I consider 1135 a successful ship, also the basis of the USSR fleet at one time, but they are really all old and they will not be soon
        1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
          Yuri V.A (Yuri) 18 July 2022 11: 47
          0
          You are off topic again - it’s not about how successful these projects were at one time and that timely modernization is needed, but about the fact that in the absence of new ships, any opportunities must be used
          1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 18 July 2022 15: 20
            0
            Quote: Yuri V.A
            in the absence of new ships, every opportunity must be used

            made a crazy statement! the problem should always be solved thoughtfully and optimally and not "by any means", simply adding the old 1135 patrolmen to the navy will simply create a meaningless target and a coffin for the crew, .......
    2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 July 2022 08: 09
      -5
      Or maybe you won't be rude to me?
      I wrote about re-equipping them with PLO ships, not air defense ones. After that, they will become warships from patrolmen. And it was appreciated by people smarter than you.
      And you publicly show yourself as a real disgrace, and not as an officer and a person with a Soviet education, which you are so proud of.
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 21: 08
        0
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        I wrote about re-equipping them with PLO ships, not air defense

        by this you showed your total lack of professionalism .. air defense is easier to install than every 20 times ...... why did they write off Kharlamov? due to the loss of the polynomial by Kulakov, in other words, the life cycle of the PLO frigate ends with the loss of the polynomial, this thing hangs under the tank, how do you hang it on an old ship? a mystery to me, explain ....... and for the second time I ask, you wrote that you know how Putin came to power, we are all interested in how it was in your opinion .... . and I also believe that Russia does not need aircraft carriers
    3. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 July 2022 11: 34
      -1
      As an air defense ship, he is no. Two Osa air defense systems were good for the 80s, but today they are rubbish. Torpedo tubes also do not meet today's realities. the AK-100 complex slightly increases the value of the ship. RBU - I don’t even want to comment. For the border guards, the ship is redundant, but for the Navy it is of no value. What a patrol ship, what PSKR - both are just a burden for the fleet. And to call 1135.1 a serious warship, it means to show yourself as a complete layman in this matter

      Even in this form, it is more combat-ready than 22160. This is first. Secondly, modernization involves its rearmament. So you, a beginner troll, are doing the usual twitching. Or you do not understand the meaning of what is written at all.

      And the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbto repair and modernize the PSKR is generally crazy. How much it will cost the budget and how long these old ships can still serve after that, the author did not guess.

      Yeah, like the idea of ​​upgrading old BODs, TAVKRs and cruisers, yes. Andryusha? Can you buy new boats in the store?

      Maybe it's better to write about something that has at least some understanding of the issue, and not to make the audience laugh.

      If you still do not understand why you are a disgrace to an officer and a Soviet person, based on my comment, I will explain in more detail.
      You, in your personal hostility towards me, not motivated by anything on my part, constantly write me all sorts of nasty things, showing your low moral level. I'm sure your Soviet teachers would be ashamed of you. But you, as an officer, are also to spite me drowning against the absolutely sound idea of ​​​​re-equipping two PSKRs and turning them into 2 PLO frigates, in which there is an acute shortage. By doing this from such base motives, you objectively harm the interests of the Russian Navy, proving your own bias and internal vileness.
      What kind of officer are you after that? You are a disgrace, turned from a military man into a banal pest troll.
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 21: 20
        +1
        you have interesting thoughts, but this one is erroneous, I pushed through the modernization of 1144, I’m sorry, it turned out to be a lot of money and time, I support the modernization of 1155, why? the serial modernization project means a lot of them, they and 1144 are not as old as the Nereys, but I think you shouldn’t mess with the Nereys, we’d better buy 22350 from the northern shipyard ...... and I’m still amazed how you attacked your opponent, calling him names, spraying with all sorts of words saliva, you need the help of a psychologist, you need to drink valerian soothes, you are our psychologist, ... having completely lost the coast, what kind of hysteria about a Soviet officer? apparently they realized that you were wrong and you don’t have technical arguments, and you boiled over, he didn’t call you names at all and in general, he’s not such a professional manipulator political scientist and world-class psychologist as I am .... calm down and get out of this circle, accept the opponent’s arguments and stop being mistaken, return to the bosom of adequate specialists, leave the sect of aircraft carriers, return to the team, to the family, to the society of naval officers and become an adequate member of society,
      2. Navigator Offline Navigator
        Navigator (Andrei) 18 July 2022 10: 53
        0
        So much saliva does not color you. Stop hysteria in my address and poke. I didn't drink brotherhood with you. As an officer of the FMF, I do not know much about the topic presented and expressed my thoughts. In response, I receive reproaches about the officer's honor that I have ruined. And from whom? Have you ever served yourself, and if you did, then by whom? They obviously had nothing to do with the fleet, because otherwise they would not have written such nonsense.
    4. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 20: 49
      +1
      Quote: Navigator
      Utter nonsense from the mouth of the author. project 1135.1 is old trash, which is not much different from patrol ships. As an air defense ship, he is no. Two Osa air defense systems were good for the 80s, but today they are rubbish. Torpedo tubes also do not meet today's realities. the AK-100 complex slightly increases the value of the ship. RBU - I don’t even want to comment. For the border guards, the ship is redundant, but for the Navy it is of no value. What a patrol ship, what PSKR - both are just a burden for the fleet. And to call 1135.1 a serious warship means to show yourself as a complete layman in this matter. And the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbto repair and modernize the PSKR is generally crazy. How much it will cost the budget and how long these old ships can still serve after that, the author did not guess. Maybe it's better to write about something that has at least some understanding of the issue, and not to make the audience laugh.

      and I'm talking about
  7. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
    Yuri V.A (Yuri) 17 July 2022 02: 54
    0
    I completely agree with the author, we need a project for the operational processing of a border guard, in a year and a half, into a combat unit of the fleet
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 17 July 2022 08: 10
      0
      Thank you for your objectivity.
      And so, the fleet can quickly get two decent PLO frigates. In the same place, at KTOF, you can leave them.
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 20: 59
        +1
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        the fleet can get two decent

        how soon and what is decent?
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 20: 51
      0
      Yurka, why did you attack a specialist? and in the case, apart from kindergarten names, there is nothing to add?
      1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
        Yuri V.A (Yuri) 18 July 2022 12: 05
        0
        And what do you, little peanuts, call business?
    3. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 17 July 2022 20: 57
      +1
      Quote: Yuri V.A
      a project for the operational processing of a border guard, in a year and a half, into a combat unit of the fleet

      the project is about two years, the search for money and work sites is a year, fault detection for at least a year, dismantling of all junk for five years, saturation with new equipment for 4 years ......, in service from 84-86 years, in total after 11 years and a lot of money down the drain they will be 47 years old ......
      1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
        Yuri V.A (Yuri) 18 July 2022 12: 09
        0
        For the near-minded, I repeat - not a complete modernization is required, but only the necessary improvements to make up for the current shortage of combat units of the fleet
        1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 18 July 2022 15: 11
          0
          Quote: Yuri V.A
          necessary improvements

          what kind of animal is this? if not modernization, then VTG, that is, the ship will remain a patrol but large
          1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
            Yuri V.A (Yuri) 18 July 2022 15: 30
            0
            Available projects:
            11352 with the replacement of the RBU with launchers Uranus
            11353 replacement of radar and HOOK
            If all the complexes of the ship are combined with the recently adopted automated control system for aviation and ships, then this will be quite enough
            1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 18 July 2022 15: 39
              0
              projects of the 80s can be used as waste paper, all this is no longer being produced, there are no suppliers, there are no instruments, it is much easier to build a new 11356 frigate, and not sculpt from junk, according to no less old projects .....
              1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
                Yuri V.A (Yuri) 18 July 2022 15: 59
                0
                What is not produced - anti-ship missiles Uranus, radar Fregat, GAK Check-in? What reality do you live in?
                1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 18 July 2022 16: 14
                  0
                  all this can no longer be put on the old building
                  1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
                    Yuri V.A (Yuri) 19 July 2022 02: 51
                    0
                    Well, run, maybe you will have time to stop work at Vinogradov
                    1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 19 July 2022 21: 32
                      0
                      grapes are 1155, not 1135 ..... you need to study the materiel! ... and where is the uranium?
                      Dalzavod Ship Repair Center JSC (Vladivostok, part of the Far Eastern Shipbuilding and Ship Repair Center, DTSSS) will modernize the large project 1155 anti-submarine ship Admiral Vinogradov. This was reported by the press service of the enterprise.

                      Recall that such a project has already been implemented at the plant - a deep modernization of the frigate "Marshal Shaposhnikov".

                      The new order is characterized by the improvement of modernization work.

                      During the works, actually 100% of weapons will be replaced, with the exception of AK-630 artillery mounts. The ship will be equipped with the Kalibr missile system, Paket naval underwater weapons, and modern radio-electronic weapons. There will also be a replacement of hull structures and 100% replacement of cable routes.
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  • faiver Offline faiver
    faiver (Andrei) 17 July 2022 16: 30
    +1
    The idea is interesting, the issue is the wear and tear of ships, this time. In the rearmament project and how much it will cost, these are two. In terms of project preparation and in terms of modernization, these are three.