Indonesia ditched Russian Su-35s in favor of French Rafale or American F-15s

December 23 2021 16

Jakarta refused to purchase Russian Su-35 multipurpose super-maneuverable fighters from Moscow in favor of Western products. On December 22, Chief of Staff of the Air Force of the Indonesian National Army (from May 20, 2020), Air Chief Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo, told reporters.

As for the Su-35, we are forced to abandon this plan with a heavy heart.

- he said, quoted by the Indonesian portal Kompas.com.

The Chief Marshal clarified that Indonesia made such a decision "for financial reasons." Fajar Prasetio explained that Indonesia made it clear from the very beginning that it relies solely on budgetary resources to strengthen its armed forces.

If those who pay don't want to do it, we can't talk about it, so the direction is Rafale

Fajar Prasetio pointed floridly.

Moreover, he did not say how many more expensive French aircraft are in question. However, I noticed that “now many people and more and more countries love Rafale” with “strong financial resources” for a deal to buy them. This has been reflected in the massive acquisition of these fighters in recent years. For example, the UAE purchased 80 Rafale units some time ago.

At the same time, the portal noted that earlier Indonesia planned to purchase 35 units of French Rafale and 8 units of American F-15 EX, but the atmosphere around this aviation topic has been heating up since last year.

We remind you that in the spring of 2020, Bloomberg informed the public that Jakarta had abandoned plans to purchase 11 Su-35 units from the Russian Federation for $ 1,1 billion under pressure from Washington. At the same time, the Indonesian authorities did not officially renounce their agreements with the Russians before the aforementioned speech of Fajar Prasetio to the press.

Note that recently the web was surprised congestion Su-35 fighters (15 units) on the territory of KnAAZ in the Far East.

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Binder

-7

23 December 2021 20: 16

This is such a sophisticated oriental joke - the Indonesian minister explains that his country is forced to abandon the purchase of Russian Su-35 fighters due to financial difficulties, but is going to buy more expensive French and American planes instead.
1. Michael1950
  
  -4
  
  24 December 2021 02: 21
  
  - This is not a joke at all, because according to the criterion efficiency / cost Rafal covers the Su-35 "like a bull - a sheep":
  1. Frontal RCS (without suspensions) 0.1-0.3 m² versus 10 m² for the Su-35.
  2 radar with AFAR - against radar with PFAR in the Su-35.
  3. Another avionics are one of the best in the world - against the avionics of the last century in the Su-35.
  5. The Meteor air-to-air missiles are probably the best in the world today.
  6. The combat load of Rafal is 9.5 tons versus 8 tons of the Su-35.
  7. Raphael's maneuverability is completely unique - here is the approximate maneuverability rating of world fighters:
  1. Eurofighter - 4.88
  2. Rafale - 4.78
  3. F-15C - 4.39
  4. F-22 - 4.2
  5.F-15SG - 4.08
  6. F-2 - 3.63
  7.F-16A, F-16ADF - 3.44
  8.F-16 block 42 - 3.3
  9.F-16 block 40, Su-27 - 3.21
  10. Su-xnumx - 3.2
  11. Su-30MKI - 3.16
  12. J-10A - 3.1
  13. F-35C - 3.04
  14. MiG-29 9-13 - 2.82
  15. Gripen, F-18E - 2.78
  16.F-16 block 52 - 2.74
  17. F-18C - 2.65
  18.JF-17 - 2.6
  19. Gripen NG, MiG-35 - 2.43
  20.F-35A - 2.424
  .................
  Maneuverability rating, according to the formula:
  R = Pmax * K * S * ny max./9G²
  (R - Rotatability, - agility)
  1. Binder
    
    0
    
    24 December 2021 06: 44
    
    You very clearly explained to the patriotic public why the Indonesians did not have the money to buy the Su-35, but at the same time they are ready to pay much more for the Rafali. RESPECT!
    1. S WITH
      
      0
      
      24 December 2021 13: 59
      
      Is that why Americans are so afraid of the spread of C400 and SU35 around the world? and ha ha su35 was created for the fight with f22, does Rafal cover and f22?
  2. Sergeyjluf
    
    -1
    
    24 December 2021 08: 22
    
    However, from 1 to 9 from the table, the aircraft cannot make the "Pugachev cobra" like the SU-35. And this is agility!
    1. Michael1950
      
      -3
      
      24 December 2021 09: 43
      
      - Of course they can! Only she didn't give up on them.
      "Cobra" (like "Chakra", like "Hook") is not maneuverability (the ability of an aircraft to change the position of its center of mass in space as energetically as possible), this is super-maneuverability (the ability of an aircraft to rotate around its center of mass at maximum angular velocity in this case, the coordinates of the center of mass in space change little).
      Agility and super-maneuverability are two huge differences (for those who understand). maneuverability is "needed like air" by a fighter - that is why the Americans, French, British and others are doing their utmost to ensure that their aircraft have maximum maneuverability. And they have made great strides (see above). In the overwhelming majority of cases, super-maneuverability does not affect maneuverability, therefore the Americans, having conducted experiments with a controlled thrust vector on four aircraft (X-80, F-31, F-15, F-16) in the late 18s, from the massive endowment of their fighters with UVT refused. The F-22 has an UHT in one plane - because, according to the creators' intention, it has to perform a significant part of the time the flight at supersonic, when the longitudinal controllability significantly decreases due to the shift back at the supersonic aerodynamic focus.
      "Cobra" is not a combat maneuver, it is not taught to combat pilots, it is not in the course of combat training of fighter aircraft, it is not allowed to be performed by the fully switched on automatic equipment of the EDSU even on the Su-27 (it must be turned off). This is airshow bullshit ...
      .......................
      What is really useful in UHT: it helps a lot when an aircraft stalls, allows you to quickly and reliably return to normal flight.
      1. Sergeyjluf
        
        +1
        
        24 December 2021 13: 36
        
        Supermaneuverability in the overwhelming majority of cases does not affect maneuverability .... Is this something new? Do these words have the same root? The question arises: chattering? And what about the simulated battles between Indians and Amers? Hindus have won overwhelmingly! And they flew in the camp of rivals on the SU30MKI.
      2. Michael1950
        
        -2
        
        24 December 2021 14: 14
        
        - Watch and listen very carefully the last minute and a half!
  3. S WITH
    
    +2
    
    24 December 2021 13: 56
    
    like a bull, the Indians cut a sheep for su30 British pilots on Eurofighters with a score of 12: 0, as well as amers at 18,16
2. smart fellow
  
  0
  
  25 December 2021 06: 29
  
  This is called: "Do not spit in the well, then you have to drink water."
  It is also a manifestation of elementary politeness.
S WITH

+1

24 December 2021 13: 58

then the Russian Federation does not make sense to buy palm oil from the Indonesians, let the amers melt, they are already the leaders in its per capita consumption
Kuramori Reika

+3

24 December 2021 15: 10

Something tells me the French won't get there either. As a result, the F-35 will be bought, and the Americans, as always, will throw the French))
Michael1950

-2

24 December 2021 17: 05

Quote: Sergejluf
Supermaneuverability in the overwhelming majority of cases does not affect maneuverability .... Is this something new?

- It's old, it's eternal. For those who did not read the posts above, I repeat:

Maneuverability - the ability of the aircraft to change the position of its center of mass in space as energetically as possible.
Super maneuverability - the ability of the aircraft to rotate around its center of mass with maximum angular velocity, in this case, the coordinates of the center of mass in space change little.

Do these words have the same root?

- The root is the same, here and there we are talking about CHANGES. Only in the first case - about changes in the coordinates of the center of mass, and in the second case - about changes in angles.

The question arises: chattering?

- Only for the illiterate, unable to understand the meaning of what he said.

And what about the simulated battles between Indians and Amers? Hindus have won overwhelmingly! And they flew in the camp of rivals on the SU30MKI.

- This is bullshit. In reality, nothing like this happened.
If they talk about the "famous" victories of the Indians in the joint exercises Cope India 2005, then there are "nuances":
- the Americans fought in a ratio of 1: 3;
- the height during the exercise was prohibited above 7.5 km, which for the F-15, with its ceiling of 20 km, was "extremely suboptimal";
- The Americans were forbidden to use AIM-120 missiles with an active RGSN, but only AIM-7 "Sparrow" missiles, which require continuous illumination (the use is conditional, but nonetheless);
- the Indians were thinned out to use the AWACS aircraft, but the AWACS Americans were not.
Why the Americans decided on such a "self-sufficiency" - for political reasons: the US Congress was soon to discuss the military budget for next year and the US Air Force command staged this show in India for their congressmen in order to knock out additional money for the Air Force for the next fiscal year.
Michael1950

-2

24 December 2021 17: 06

Quote: S S
like a bull, the Indians cut a sheep for su30 British pilots on Eurofighters with a score of 12: 0, as well as amers at 18,16

- Only links to this wild nonsense you will NEVER find among the British or the Americans.
Michael1950

-2

24 December 2021 17: 15

Quote: S S
then the Russian Federation does not make sense to buy palm oil from the Indonesians, let the amers melt, they are already the leaders in its per capita consumption

Import of palm oil. Top 10 importing countries (data for 2020)
Place Country Import, thousand tons
1 ________ India _______ 8300
3 ________ EU-27 _______ 6800
2 ________ China _______ 7200
4 _______ Pakistan ______ 2550
5 ______ Bangladesh _____ 1700
6 ________ USA _________1475 - for 333 449 280 people.
7 ______ Philippines _____ 1280
8 ________ Egypt _______ 1250
9 ________ Kenya ________ 1180
10___ Ross. Federation___1070 - for 146 171 015 people.

https://ru.wikipedia.org
Michael1950

-1

25 December 2021 08: 19

Quote: S S
Is that why Americans are so afraid of the spread of C400 and SU35 around the world? and ha ha su35 was created for the fight with f22, does Rafal cover and f22?

- And who said that the "Su-35 was created to fight the F-22" ??! What an amateur, what a layman, what an ignoramus ?!
....................
Once, at one of the international exercises in the UAE, Rafal won 22 dogfights (close combat on cannons) against the F-4, losing only one! The French were then proud of it just scary! They filmed a video with the appropriate comments ... But only not one of the most screwy French pilots would ever dare to say that "Rafal will win an air battle against the F-22 in general"- that is, if it starts not with a dogfight, but as it should be - from the very beginning:
- mutual search;
- detection;
- long-range missile combat;
- evaluation of results;
- new use of long-range missiles;
- further rapprochement;
- new use of long-range missiles;
- further rapprochement;
- the use of short-range missiles;
- dogfight.