Was World War II inevitable?

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This year marks 80 years since the beginning of the largest and bloody epic of mutual mass extermination in the history of mankind, known to all of us as the Second World War. All these years, many professional historians, as well as just people who are not indifferent to the most tragic and fateful moments of the past, have been wondering: was this orgy of death, covering almost the entire globe, that claimed tens of millions of lives and left whole countries in ruins, inevitable. Or, nevertheless, under certain conditions, could this cup pass the long-suffering human race? Well, let us and we will try to look for an answer to it.





The world that gave rise to ... war


In addition to the eightieth anniversary of World War II, this year is another, no less significant date. On June 28, 1919, a peace treaty was signed in French Versailles, marking the end of the Great War, which no one had thought to assign any numbering to then. Many sacredly believed that after experiencing a five-year-old bloody horror, humanity would think a thousand times before again clutching at a weapon. And at the same time, the Treaty of Versailles, in fact, became only the prologue of a new world battle, many times more severe than the previous one. Be that as it may, the origins of the tragedy that erupted in 1939 must be sought not even two decades earlier, but in those motives that gave rise to the year 1914.

As a matter of fact, the causes of any global armed conflict can, in fact, be reduced to two words: "redivision of the world." And it doesn’t matter what exactly the “great” (or considering themselves as such) countries want to redraw on its map: borders, spheres of political influence, raw material bases or markets for goods. Any of these aspirations, and, even more so, their combination, can become a reason for “continuing policy by other means. ” Those forces who in reality stood behind the outbreak of the First World War pursued very specific goals. The Anglo-Saxon world and France, which joined it, wanted to stop the rapid economic development and concomitant growth of influence in the world of Germany and Russia. The "democratic" countries were eager to destroy the true monarchies, which hindered them by the very fact of their existence, the last European empires - Russian, Austro-Hungarian, German. The United States was eager to turn from a provincial overseas country into one of the states deciding the fate of the world.

Regarding the United States, by the way, there is another version - very believable. She says that to the greatest extent possible, unleashing a great war, American bankers, already then striving for global hegemony, planned in this way to crush the world financial system based on the "gold standard." Was it so - now it’s not possible to find out, but in the end it was precisely this that all came to ... We can say that it fulfilled the main tasks that that war had to solve. Not even the three listed above were destroyed, but as many as four empires - the Ottoman collapsed, so to speak, "to the heap." The Germans and Russians did not have time to expand their sales markets and increase exports - they were faced with the question of survival. And yet, allies who have gone too far and too reveled in their own victory over the “treacherous Teutons” made a huge mistake - in their own cruelty and greed for the defeated, they went too far.

Germany was not just defeated - the Germans were robbed and humiliated as soon as it is possible to humiliate a people that for centuries considered itself a nation of born warriors. Germany chopped off 70 thousand square kilometers of its ancestral territories, and at the same time they took away everything to a single colony. She was forbidden not only to have an army and navy, but even to produce weapons with a barrel length greater than the mocking winners would measure. The war, which followed its loss, countless reparations and indemnities, not only ruined the German economy - they actually destroyed it. Hyperinflation, total unemployment, poverty and balancing on the brink of hunger ... What do you think could grow out of all this? Namely, what turned out as a result is the Third Reich. All of which was said above, gave rise to despair, spilling into anger all over the world and provoking Hitler to life. Germany, after all, did not "fall" into Nazism all of a sudden. She came to him. The National Socialist Party did not seize power as a result of the coup — it advanced towards it in a long and thorny way, in order to ultimately receive as a result of the most democratic elections in 1933. Germany longed for the Fuhrer - and she received it.

War, as a cure for depression. Great ...


Those who won the First World War, directly pushing the Germans to revenge. Hitler and the Nazis simply became his embodiment, having previously resolved all sore economic and social problems. And, by the way, it's not in that Germany! If anyone forgot, Italy was ruled by the Nazis since 1922. Spain, Portugal, Greece, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland - in all these countries in the 20-30s of the last century there were putsches, as a result of which various dictators and juntas came to power. Military and paramilitary regimes of all kinds of marshals, caudillos, duce and Fuhrer entangled the Old World like cancerous metastases. And in other, apparently prosperous countries, everything was not so decorum and safe. The “big” winners of the First World War, quickly “digesting” what they grabbed, began to think about where and what else to grab, starting with a carnivorous interest to take a closer look at yesterday's “allies” with a smaller caliber. The “small fry” that had fairly expanded in Europe after the collapse of the empires cherished and accumulated “centuries-old” resentments and claims against neighbors, trying on how to grab a couple of regions from them or some other piece fatter. All these spiders in a close European "bank" simply could not help but catch on a new one.

However, perhaps everything would have worked out. At least, it would not end in a world war, but in relatively local battles in the same Balkan madhouse, albeit with a limited participation of larger "players". But Her Majesty the Economy intervened ... What to do - this year we have solid anniversaries! True, one is darker than the other, but it just so happened. Talking about both world wars, without mentioning the global economic crisis that flared up “halfway” between them, in 1929, which we all remember under the name of the Great Depression, would be fundamentally wrong. A nightmare that drove world industrial production to the level of the beginning of the century, giving rise to tens of millions of unemployed in those countries that were considered the richest and most well-fed yesterday, gave rise to stock market and financial collapse in the United States, Canada, Great Britain, France and finally “finished off” the already the German economy, which was breathing its last ... Big war could be the best way out of this situation - it became them. No wonder the end of the Great Depression is considered to be 1939 ...

The Americans revived German industry completely not out of altruism or a conscience that suddenly awoke from them. And they also contributed to the industrialization of the Soviet Union for purely pragmatic reasons - their enterprises desperately needed orders, citizens needed work. In order not to go broke, industrialists on both sides of the ocean were ready to cooperate even with the bald one. Even more desperate, they were looking for ways to return to the blissful times of making super profits on military orders. They needed the world carnage like air, which is why enormous funds were invested in the Third Reich, ready to unleash it. Nothing personal just business! Let Europe, Asia and Africa again burn in the fire - for us all this will only be at hand. I must say, the worst thing is that in the end all these calculations were fully justified - in the Second World War, the United States enriched itself fantastically, just fabulously. Yes, and not just robbed the Germans once again, but also turned them, along with half of Europe into their own humble vassals.

But what about Russia?


Surely many readers are already full of indignation and are ready to cover up the under-author with the last words. After all, he did not mention one word at a time that to a great extent the Western leaders' support for the Nazis was due to their desire to certainly set the Third Reich on the hated Soviet Union. It was for the sake of the “Drang nah Osten” proclaimed by Hitler that they looked through their fingers at Germany’s revival of its military power and at its first aggressive steps, like the Anschluss of Austria and the capture of Czechoslovakia. I agree with this statement 100% or more! However, I admit honestly - a heated discussion among the readers of my article about the hypothetical prospects of Russia in the event of victory in the Civil War of the White movement led me to look at the current topic from a slightly different angle. Faced with numerous allegations that “without the Soviet Union there would have been neither Hitler nor World War II”, to complicate the task, I tried to consider some kind of virtuality in which the USSR did not really exist in the 30s and 40s of the last century. How would events unfold in such a case?

The fall of imperial power in the existing historical realities was most likely inevitable. But let's imagine that in Russia everything ended with the February Revolution, or, as an option, the defeat of the Bolsheviks in the Civil. In the end, not the weakest speeches under communist and socialist slogans in the same Germany and Austria-Hungary were defeated. We assume that in the 30s there was a kind of “free democratic Russia” ... Represented? Now I want to ask - do you, gentlemen, really think that this would be a "panacea" for the Second World War, would prevent it ?! Do you think that the noble western "friends" of our country would strangle Corporal Schicklgruber in the first attempt to become the Fuhrer of the German nation? Well, you can't be so naive! If this was the case, then what, excuse me, why the hell did the same West so desperately drive Russia into the First World War, in which it simply had absolutely no interests? Why did it demand its continuation already from the Provisional Government? Yes, with the simplest and most understandable goal - that our country should be destroyed! It does not matter, in essence, by whom exactly.

And why did you suddenly get the idea that Hitler would not have fallen on Russia if it weren’t for the Bolsheviks to rule? “Drang nah osten” was not invented by him at all, but by amateurs “to expand the living space” at our expense many centuries earlier. Russian soldiers had to knock this nonsense out of the Teutonic iron Boschs back in those days when, not at all, the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire did not exist. Our colossal natural resources, our lands, which can be inhabited by fertile "Aryans", turning their inhabitants into slaves for these same "new owners" - all this has attracted the conquerors for a long time, and today it attracts. Moreover, in the “virtuality” we are considering, Russia would probably be among the winners of Germany and the signatories to the Versailles Treaty. So, the Germans would have had even more accounts for her. And, in the end, if the Third Reich didn’t arise, there would be someone to incite to our Homeland. The same Poles, for example - they were somehow eager to expand the conquests made in the 20s. However, most likely, a whole coalition of different countries would act against us, to calculate all the members of which is a long and thankless task.

It can be stated with the highest degree of certainty - the Second World War would have erupted, with almost any not-so-significant deviations from the history we know. There were too many reasons for her, too many factors played to make her start. And blaming it on Nazi Germany alone would be fundamentally wrong. Today, at propaganda events, such as the anniversary of the Normandy landing, arranged to obscure the historical truth as much as possible, in fact, there are representatives of countries that are more or less collectively responsible for this tragedy. In the same way, it is incorrect, in my opinion, to say that the attack on our country was caused solely by the desire to destroy the Soviet system in it. Everything was simpler and simpler - the "collective West" was going to kill Russia. For the umpteenth time in its history ... And the fact that the invaders were met by a country that managed, albeit at the cost of tremendous stress and huge sacrifices, to repel the enemy invasion and win the Victory, is precisely the merit of those who controlled it at that time. Historical logic suggests that in any other case, everything could have turned out much worse. What would be the result of World War II in this case, I do not even want to imagine.
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  1. 0
    15 June 2019 09: 32
    Of course she could.
  2. 0
    15 June 2019 10: 35
    Imagine that the October Revolution fails or does not happen, in the end we have:
    Russia emerges victorious from WWI and does not sign the infamous Brest-Litovsk, receives indemnities from Germany.
    Poland, the Baltic states, Finland remain a part of Russia + Istanbul with the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles pass to us.
    The citizen of 10 million victims + 2 and a half million immigrants does not happen, including the intelligentsia.
    As a result, the economy suffered a severe blow and the Bolsheviks had to restore it from 0.
    According to demographics, taking into account unborn children, the country's population has received less than 30 to 40 million people.
    There is no collectivization, all kinds of repression and famine (because of which the Wehrmacht in Ukraine was met as liberators and heroes).
    Russia continues to develop, and the pace of development was not inferior or even superior to European countries.

    So, by some miracle, Hitler came to power, because everyone was afraid of the Red Horde from the east, and now it is gone.
    Hitler does everything that he did. Not the fact that he does it.
    Hitler already has Danzig in his hands, for there is no independent Poland.
    And now Hitler decides to attack Russia and gets a war on 2 fronts with the Russians, French and British because the Entente has survived.
    This is all extremely unlikely.
    This timeline was in the event of the October failure.

    But what would happen if a citizen did happen, but in the end White won, everything was already there, it would be more complicated and certainly not everything is so rosy.

    The devil knows whether Hitler came to power and whether he managed to win the war.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +4
      15 June 2019 13: 10
      Your demographers are liars. Fertility declined as a result of industrialization and the massive relocation of peasants to cities. When counting, your demographers take into account the territories lost by Russia, such as, for example, Finland. Count yourself. I did so. This is the first. And secondly. What would your NOT Soviet Russia fight in World War II? Millions of peasants with pitchforks with the support of World War I airplanes? Hitler successfully won in Europe and only against the USSR did not pull. Without the Union, the world would become fascist in 4-5 years.
      1. +7
        15 June 2019 18: 19
        Quote: Igor Grebeshkov
        What would your NOT Soviet Russia fight in World War II?

        The same as any other country. If RI had been as backward as Soviet historians painted it, then no "industrialization in ten years" would have been carried out.
        1. -8
          16 June 2019 03: 06
          Quote: Dart2027
          then no "industrialization in ten years" would have been carried out.

          She was not carried out in the 30s. That industrialization was invented by the Bolsheviks. Since industrialization is in itself, this is the RESULT of the scientific and technological revolution (NTR). Which did not happen in the 30s. And there was an increase in the production of typical products. In quantitative, but not qualitative terms.
          But industrialization in the USSR did happen. In the 50s. It was the result of the scientific and technical revolution, which was carried out on a captured technology base and by the German guest workers.
          As a result, the USSR "shot" in the 60s.
          Slowed down in the 70s.
          He stopped and rotted in the 80s.
          And as a result, it fell apart in 1991.
          Without the WWII, the USSR would most likely have collapsed back in the 2s. A few years after the death of Dzhugashvili.
          "To whom is war, and to whom is a mother."
          1. +5
            16 June 2019 05: 54
            That industrialization was invented by the Bolsheviks. Since industrialization is in itself, this is the RESULT of the scientific and technological revolution (NTR). Which did not happen in the 30s. And there was an increase in the production of typical products. In quantitative, but not qualitative terms.

            Complete stupidity and ignorance.
            Industrialization - the creation of a large, technologically advanced industry, a significant increase in the share of industry in the economy.
            Industrialization in the USSR is a process of forced buildup of the industrial potential of the USSR to reduce the lag of the economy from developed capitalist states, carried out from May 1929 to June 1941.
            The official task of industrialization was the transformation of the USSR from a predominantly agrarian state into a leading industrial one.
            1. -8
              16 June 2019 06: 00
              Quote: Golden Box
              Complete stupidity and ignorance.

              Are you a specialist in this field?

              Quote: Golden Box
              Industrialization - the creation of a large, technologically advanced industry, a significant increase in the share of industry in the economy.

              Large, technically developed and so on is not about the Soviet industry of the 30s. There was nothing like that then.

              Quote: Golden Box
              The official task of industrialization was the transformation of the USSR from a predominantly agrarian state into a leading industrial one.

              So this was nothing in the 30s. The USSR in 1941 was a backward agrarian state. More and more degraded relative to the average European level. Or do you want to compare the level of Soviet and other equipment and weapons participating in WW2?
              1. +2
                16 June 2019 07: 38
                The USSR in 1941 was a backward agrarian state.

                How can you confirm your lies and demagoguery?
                For earlier I know (judging by your comments) that nothing. You do not bother yourself at all with what to reinforce the stupid things laid out here.
                Here's your typical "argument":

                There was nothing like that then.
                1. -4
                  16 June 2019 07: 47
                  Quote: Golden Box
                  How can you confirm your lies and demagoguery?

                  And should?
                  Damn, but in the USSR they did not even know the incriminating evidence before the war. They couldn’t even count the gun normally. And now scoops talk about some mythical urinary state.
                  The state of uneducated and incompetent Bolshevik-ghouls it was. They and the people managed to threaten 4 million in less than 42 years. More than all the others combined.
      2. -5
        16 June 2019 02: 57
        Quote: Igor Grebeshkov
        What would your NOT Soviet Russia fight in World War II? Millions of peasants with pitchforks with the support of World War I airplanes?

        The technical and technological level of development of the Russian Empire in 1913 relative to other European countries was much higher than the technical and technological level of development of the USSR relative to other European countries in 1941.

        Quote: Igor Grebeshkov
        Hitler successfully won in Europe

        Whom? Belgians and Danes?
        So it was not his opponents.
        The French in 1940 themselves refused to fight the Germans. Lesson 1MB they clearly went for the future. For the Anglo-Saxons, they did not intend to carry chestnuts out of fire for the second time.
        The British in the same year inflicted on the Germans in the "Battle of Britain".

        Whom did the Germans "successfully defeat in Europe"? Polyakov? Yes, how many of these Poles were there? The cat wept.

        Quote: Igor Grebeshkov
        and only against the USSR did not pull.

        That he "did not pull against the USSR"?
        I repeat, the countries of the Anti-Hitler coalition won the victory in WW2. One of which was the USSR.
        And the USSR ended its independent war against the Germans (it started on 22.06.1941/24.09.1941/XNUMX) on September XNUMX, XNUMX. It ended with the USSR joining the Anti-Hitler Coalition. Remind me in what quality?

        Quote: Igor Grebeshkov
        Without the Union, the world would become fascist in 4-5 years.

        Without the USSR, Anglo-Saxons from the air would have rolled Germany into the Martian landscape somewhere else in the year 1943-44. But if they hadn’t managed by 1945, then already in 1945 they would have rolled it out with atomic bombs. I don’t know, Germany would have had two bombs, like Japan. But the maximum in 1945, 2MB in Europe would have been completed, this is a fact. And ended with the surrender of Germany.
        1. +4
          16 June 2019 06: 02
          The British in the same year inflicted on the Germans in the "Battle of Britain".
          Whom did the Germans "successfully defeat in Europe"? Polyakov? Yes, how many of these Poles were there? The cat wept.

          If you are that smart, then answer the question.
          If the British were so "tough", why did they not fulfill their obligations to Poland? According to interstate agreements between Poland and Great Britain, concluded in 1939, defining mutual assistance in the event of aggression by one of the "European powers".
          1. -4
            16 June 2019 06: 09
            Quote: Golden Box
            If the British were so "tough", why did they not fulfill their obligations to Poland?

            Because to fulfill these obligations they wanted to strain the French. And those just did not want this at all.

            Quote: Golden Box
            According to the interstate agreements between Poland and Great Britain, concluded in 1939,

            This is a filkin letter. Like most other "international treaties".
            1. 0
              16 June 2019 07: 41
              Because to fulfill these obligations they wanted to strain the French.

              Petrosyan is resting. lol lol
              The obligations are British, and should the French fulfill them? fool

              This is a filkin letter. Like most other "international treaties".

              Well, here comments are generally superfluous. lol fool
              1. -2
                16 June 2019 07: 48
                Quote: Golden Box
                The obligations are British, and should the French fulfill them?

                Yes, that often happens.
                You’ll grow up, pick up your mind, you yourself will know this well.
        2. +2
          16 June 2019 08: 00
          Without the USSR, Germany would have been rolled out from the air as early as 1944.

          More stupidity than you wrote here I have not seen. Especially about industrialization.
          1. -2
            16 June 2019 13: 18
            Quote: Bakht
            More stupidity than you wrote here I have not seen. Especially about industrialization.

            You need to learn. Then maybe you will understand where the truth is.
            1. +1
              16 June 2019 13: 21
              The figure of 42 million is absolutely false. No State Plan data exists
              The USSR did not promise to transfer territory to Poland. The information is completely false.
              Industrialization is laying the foundation for production. These are factories, and more. Your information is completely false.
              But I'm interested in something else


              What an activity .... I already have goosebumps ....
              1. -1
                16 June 2019 13: 41
                Quote: Bakht
                Industrialization is laying the foundation for production. These are factories, and more. Your information is completely false.

                Learn the terminology.
                Factories are a quantitative change in the structure of output. Not industrialization. in other words, the release of 5 horseshoes instead of 2 or 3, this is not industrialization.
                NTR and industrialization, this is a qualitative change in the structure of output.
                In the 30s there was no industrialization in the USSR.
                But she was in the 50s.

                Quote: Bakht
                What an activity .... I already have goosebumps ....

                Do not rejoice. There is not always time and opportunity to write so many common truths. Which, unfortunately, do not know.
    4. +1
      15 June 2019 19: 32
      That's right, only to prevent the February coup and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy was necessary. As a result: a few weeks later a decisive and victorious offensive began, which ended in a complete victory over Germany, by which we, in turn, would have prevented a coup (revolution) in Germany itself. There is no reason for Hitler to come, because legitimate German rulers - Hohenzollerns remain in power. None of the empires (except that Austria-Hungary could split into 2 states) were destroyed and coping with the consequences of the war they continued their historical path.
      1. -5
        16 June 2019 03: 14
        Quote: Citizen Mashkov
        just to prevent it was necessary the February coup and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy.

        In March-February 1917 there was a revolution. Bourgeois.
        The coup occurred in October 1917, January 1918. Reactionary.
        The next one took place in December 1927.
        As a result, Russia ceased to exist, and its population was driven into the real Middle Ages.

        Quote: Citizen Mashkov
        There is no reason for Hitler to come, because legitimate German rulers - Hohenzollerns remain in power.

        After a defeat in 1MB?

        Quote: Citizen Mashkov
        were not destroyed and coping with the consequences of the war continued their historical path.

        The "historical path" of any feudal empire runs through the revolution. Bourgeois.
        1. +1
          16 June 2019 03: 59
          Quote: semsemch
          there was a revolution

          The coup and the revolution are one thing - an illegal, violent change of power.

          Quote: semsemch
          After a defeat in 1MB?

          Yes, after the defeat in the 1st World War, if you think about the victory of the Republic of Ingushetia over Germany, it would save her from the subsequent revolution and the fall of the dynasty.

          Quote: semsemch
          feudal empire

          Feudal could be any other empire except the Russian, and even there with a huge stretch. Here the current format of the Russian Federation is gradually slipping into feudalism, here I can agree, again with reservations.
          1. -6
            16 June 2019 04: 14
            Quote: Citizen Mashkov
            The coup and the revolution are one thing - an illegal, violent change of power.

            The essence is just different. Moreover, there are several types of coups. And they are all different.

            Quote: Citizen Mashkov
            because if you think about the victory of the Republic of Ingushetia over Germany, it would save her from the subsequent revolution and the fall of the dynasty.

            I see nothing wrong with the "fall of the dynasty". Although I think that the bourgeois revolution in Russia in February-March 1917 occurred prematurely. And that's why she couldn't defend herself. And in the end, she was defeated.
            Now, if Nicholas in 1917 outweighed all the Bolsheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries and others, that would be the case. And there you look somewhere in the 40s of the 20th century and the time of revolution would have come.
            But the snot was this Nikolai, not the king. From this, and such a deplorable result in Russia in the 20th century drew.

            Quote: Citizen Mashkov
            Feudal could be any other empire except the Russian, and even there with a huge stretch.

            Why is this? The Russian Empire in February 1917 was a fairly typical feudal empire. There was nothing special about her. Slightly backward unless it was relatively German, Italian or Austro-Hungarian. And so, nothing special.

            Quote: Citizen Mashkov
            Here the current format of the Russian Federation is gradually slipping into feudalism

            It does not slip, but grows to feudal. Movement from bottom to top. Positive movement.
            Since "socialism" in the USSR was essentially one of the types of a theocratic slave-owning society. And after the slave-owning OEF, according to all the laws of political economy, the feudal OEF follows. But it still needs to be built.
            1. +1
              16 June 2019 18: 56
              Quote: semsemch
              It does not slip, but grows to feudal. Movement from bottom to top. Positive movement.
              Since "socialism" in the USSR was essentially one of the types of a theocratic slave-owning society. And after the slave-owning OEF, according to all the laws of political economy, the feudal OEF follows. But it still needs to be built.

              You are raving. But thanks anyway for your comment on my comments.
              1. -2
                16 June 2019 19: 29
                Quote: Citizen Mashkov
                You are raving.

                Not at all, believe me. If we discard all the "ideological nonsense" about "socialism", then the essence will remain exactly the one I wrote about. Well, then, pure political economy and social science
    5. +5
      15 June 2019 23: 20
      And why did you rest against the October Revolution? The country was ruined by those who organized the February. Some of those who made the October one were already forced to rebuild the country. The Brest peace was the result of the law on Soviets in the army and it was not adopted by the Bolsheviks.
      1. -5
        16 June 2019 03: 17
        Quote: boriz
        The country was ruined by those who organized the February.

        Oh. How is that?
        In fact, the collapse of the country began after the Bolsheviks dispersed the Constituent Assembly. The province simply refused to recognize the power of the usurpers.

        Quote: boriz
        Some of those who made the October one were already forced to rebuild the country.

        Poor things. At first everything fell apart. And then they were FORCED.

        Quote: boriz
        The Brest Peace was the result of a law on Soviets in the army and it was not adopted by the Bolsheviks.

        In fact, the Brest peace was the result of the Bolshevik struggle for their victory, even in part of the Russian Empire. They gave the rest to the Germans.
    6. -4
      16 June 2019 02: 44
      Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
      October revolution fails or doesn't happen

      Revolution is an inappropriate term for the process that occurred on October 17, January 18. in Russia. With revolutions, other processes take place. On October 17, January 18 in Russia there was a creeping armed REACTION coup. It is important. It is reactionary.
      Therefore, all these "Bolshevik revolutionaries" (as they liked to call themselves), they were in fact reactionaries.

      Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
      + Istanbul with the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles come to us.

      These are the figurines. This was not only not promised, but even negotiations on a serious level about this were not conducted.

      Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
      As a result, the economy suffered a severe blow and the Bolsheviks had to restore it from 0.

      Not from scratch, but from a low level. Indeed, during the time of turmoil organized by them, the production base in Russia was thoroughly undermined.
      When a complete priest appeared on the horizon (with the letter J), the Bolsheviks quickly changed their shoes and invented the NEP. With the advent of the NEP, the bourgeois revolution in Russia (February-March 1917) collapsed completely. The NEP essentially differed little from the economic system of the (feudal) autocracy. Only the Bolsheviks became "new nobles". And the new tsar was "the leader of the world proletariat."

      Russia continues to develop, and the pace of development was not inferior or even superior to European countries.

      Yes, the result of the bourgeois revolution of February-March 1917 would ALWAYS be a rapid industrial growth in Russia. This is a mandatory rule for any post-revolutionary period. Except for the fictional "revolutions" by itself. Like "October" and other "socialist".

      Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
      So, by some miracle, Hitler came to power, because everyone was afraid of the Red Horde from the east, and now it is gone.

      Hitler's rise to power is in no way connected with the USSR. There are other driving forces and motives.

      Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
      if the citizen did happen, but in the end White won, everything was already there, it would be more complicated and probably not everything is so rosy.

      "Whites" never existed. This is an invention of the Bolsheviks. In fact, the Reds (they were) fought in the Russian Volunteer Army. With the Russians, in short. And they won (partly destroying, and partly squeezing out of the old) not whites, but Russians.

      Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
      and did you manage to win the war

      In 1MB succeeded. It would be possible in 2MB. Only with much less losses than under the Bolsheviks.
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. +1
      16 June 2019 20: 17
      Undoubtedly, history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. But...
      Dmitry Mendeleev predicted that by 1950 Russia would have 500 million people and become the most powerful and influential country in the world.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. -6
    15 June 2019 12: 32
    And yet, allies who have gone too far and too reveled in their own victory over the "treacherous Teutons" have made a huge mistake - in their own cruelty and greed for the vanquished went too far.

    No, they didn’t drown or finish. In 1945 they drowned and finished off. Only the division of Germany into four identical monarchies in 1919 could prevent the Second World War. Blame the raunchy Brest peace, Russia deserted, and without its participation, the complete defeat and eradication of German militarism is impossible.
    In World War I, everyone unitedly began to fight against the aggressor. Before the Second World War, everyone tried to shove responsibility to others, ---- this is the Munich conspiracy and the shameful statement of Stalin:


    This is an actual refusal to fulfill the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of May 2, 1935. Everyone opened the way for Hitler to seize foreign territories.
    1. +3
      15 June 2019 16: 25
      It’s not necessary to write nonsense .... It’s not solid
    2. +3
      15 June 2019 16: 40
      This is an actual refusal to fulfill the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of May 2, 1935. Everyone opened the way for Hitler to seize foreign territories.

      You're lying.
      An additional agreement, which was supposed to determine the practical aspects of cooperation, was not concluded at first because of P. Laval's reluctance (the ratification of the treaty occurred only after his resignation). Practical measures to repel aggression were discussed at the Moscow talks in 1939, which did not lead to an agreement. The contract then lost value.
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Франко-советский_пакт_о_взаимопомощи#Судьба_договора
      1. 0
        16 June 2019 14: 42
        The contract was not denounced. An additional agreement would be a warning to Hitler before the invasion of Poland. In 1940, the Polish state did not exist, Germany was threatened with a war on two fronts. Stalin, with his statement, accused France of aggression against Germany, which under the terms of the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of May 2, 1935 formally freed the USSR from fulfilling obligations in this conflict, but did not free the USSR from German aggression. Thus, Stalin chose a one-on-one war with Germany.
    3. +5
      15 June 2019 18: 21
      Quote: Nikolay Chudov
      This is an actual refusal to fulfill the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of May 2, 1935.

      The Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of 1935 was signed on May 2 in Paris. It is concluded for a period of 5 years. Entered into force March 27, 1936
      The bilateral treaty was concluded amid growing aggression by fascist Germany. It was envisaged that in the event of an attack by a state on one of the parties, France and the USSR would immediately begin consultations to discuss measures of assistance and support to the victim.
      Simultaneously with the contract, a protocol was signed specifying the procedure for providing assistance. However, France agreed to start negotiations on practical measures to provide mutual assistance in case of war only in the spring of 1939 (after the occupation of Czechoslovakia by Germany). The negotiations in the summer of 1939, in which Great Britain also participated (see collective security system), were foiled for a number of reasons, and the Soviet-French treaty of 1935 was unrealized, since the Second World War began on September 1, 1939.
      http://www.doc20vek.ru/node/3215
      1. 0
        16 June 2019 14: 56
        The absence of an additional agreement in 1940 did not prevent the USSR from acting like Russia in 1914, saving France. In both cases, Germany had few troops in the east. The Soviet-French treaty of 1935 turned out to be unrealized, since on December 1, 1939, Stalin accused France of aggression against Germany.
        1. +1
          16 June 2019 20: 09
          Quote: Nikolay Chudov
          The absence of an additional agreement in 1940 did not prevent the USSR from acting like Russia in 1914, saving France.

          Was there any reason to do this? France was not an ally, and before that had a rather ambiguous policy towards Germany, actually helping it to rise. who could guarantee that with the intervention of the USSR Germany and France would not reconcile and unite? No one.
          1. +1
            17 June 2019 05: 19
            The guarantee is that the world is not what you imagine it to be. Those who share the spilled blood and great ambitions do not reconcile. France is not Romania and not Bulgaria, sandwiched between two giants. Everyone led an ambiguous policy and played out.
            1. +1
              17 June 2019 06: 07
              Quote: Nikolay Chudov
              Those who share the shed blood and great ambitions do not reconcile.

              Politics puts different people in one bed.
              1. 0
                17 June 2019 16: 53
                For example, Churchill and Stalin.
                1. 0
                  17 June 2019 20: 19
                  And them too. But with the same success, it could have been Churchill and Hitler.
                  1. 0
                    18 June 2019 05: 40
                    Excluded.

                    On the alliance with Russia
                    October 4, 2017
                    Speech in the House of Commons May 19, 1939

                    I cannot understand in any way what are the objections to concluding an agreement with Russia, the desirability of which the prime minister himself recognizes, against his conclusion in the broad and simple form proposed by the Russian Soviet government?
                    The proposals put forward by the Russian government undoubtedly mean a triple alliance between England, France and Russia. Such a union could extend its advantages to other countries if they approve and express such a desire. The sole purpose of the alliance is to resist further acts of aggression and protect the victims of aggression. I do not see anything reprehensible in this. What is wrong with this simple sentence? They say: "Can one trust the Russian Soviet government?" I think that in Moscow they say: “Can we trust Chamberlain?” I hope that both of these questions should be answered in the affirmative. I sincerely hope so ...
                    If you are ready to become allies of Russia during the war, during the greatest test that gives you the opportunity to prove yourself to the world, if you are ready to unite with Russia in defense of Poland, which you guaranteed, as well as in defense of Romania, then why do not you want to become allies of Russia Now, when thereby you, perhaps, prevent the war? I do not understand all these subtleties of diplomacy and procrastination. If the worst happens, you will still find yourself with them in the crucible of events and you will have to get out with them as much as possible. If difficulties do not arise, you will be provided with security at the preliminary stage ...
                    It is clear that Russia will not agree to conclude agreements if it is not treated as an equal and, moreover, if it is not certain that the methods used by the allies - the front of the world - can lead to success.
                    Nobody wants to mess with indecisive leadership and uncertain politics. Our government must understand that not one of these Eastern European states can survive, say, a year of war unless they have solid and strong support for friendly Russia combined with an alliance of Western powers. We need a reliable Eastern Front, be it the Eastern Front of the World or the Front of the War, and such a front can only be created with the effective support of friendly Russia, which is located behind all these countries.
                    If the Eastern Front is not created, what will happen to the West? What will happen to those countries on the Western Front with which, admittedly, we are connected, if we have not given them guarantees, with countries such as Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Switzerland?
                    Let us turn to the experience of 1917. In 1917, the Russian front was broken and demoralized. Revolution and rebellion undermined the courage of this great disciplined army, and the situation at the front was indescribable. And yet, until an agreement was concluded on the liquidation of this front, more than one and a half million Germans were fettered on this front, even with its most deplorable and non-operational state. As soon as this front was liquidated, a million Germans and five thousand guns were thrown to the west and at the last minute nearly changed the course of the war and almost imposed on us a disastrous world.
                    This question of the Eastern Front has gigantic significance. I am surprised that it does not cause more concern. Of course, I do not ask favor from Soviet Russia. Now is not the time to ask for favors from other countries. However, we have before us an offer that is fair and, in my opinion, more advantageous than the conditions that our government wants to achieve. This proposal is simpler, more direct and more effective. It must not be allowed to be set aside so that it does not lead to anything.
                    I ask the government of His Majesty to assimilate some of these unpleasant truths. Without an effective Eastern Front, it is impossible to satisfactorily protect our interests in the West, and without Russia an effective Eastern Front is impossible. If the government of His Majesty, which had neglected our defense for so long, renounced Czechoslovakia with all its military might, obliged us, without getting to know the technical side of the issue, to defend Poland and Romania, rejected and rejected the necessary assistance to Russia and thus involved us in the worst way in the worst Of all the wars, it does not justify trust and, I add, the generosity with which his compatriots belonged and relate to him.

                    http://churchill.pw/o-sojuze-s-rossiej.html
                    1. +1
                      20 June 2019 06: 10
                      When the war was drawing to a close, England was developing a draft attack on the USSR. This information has been declassified recently, and that is characteristic of no speeches on this subject Churchill did not make.
                      1. 0
                        20 June 2019 18: 11
                        Well, maybe it was a secret for you? Watch Evgeny Matveev's film "Victory" in 1984, there is an episode about it.
                        With equals it is always like that, Churchill is equal to Stalin, and not some six from Eastern Europe. Stalin and Hitler were equally disagreeable to Churchill, but Stalin was far away and Hitler was close, so Churchill chose Stalin. And in May 1945, on the contrary: Stalin is close, and Hitler is already "far away." Churchill did not make any speeches about this, but he did not attack either, "On the alliance with Russia" he said in May 1939 and became an ally on June 22, 1941.

                        Radio performance in connection with the German attack on the USSR on June 22, 1941:

                        Today, at 4 a.m., Hitler invaded Russia. Moreover, the usual forms of deceit for him were observed with all scrupulous accuracy. The two non-aggression treaties were solemnly signed between the two countries. Germany has not made a single complaint that this non-aggression treaty between Germany and the USSR is not being implemented. Hiding behind the treaty, Germany concentrated huge armies on a line stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea; and at that time German air squadrons and armored divisions gradually and methodically took up their positions. Suddenly, without declaring war, even without presenting an ultimatum, German bombs rained down on Russian cities, German troops violated the border; and an hour later, the German ambassador, who had poured out on the assurances of friendship before the Russians the night before and spoke almost of an alliance, visited the Russian Foreign Minister to declare to him that there was a state of war between Germany and Russia ...
                        All this was not a surprise to me. In fact, I sent clear and precise warnings to Stalin about impending events. I addressed the warning to him in the same way as before I addressed the warning to others. I can only hope that this warning was not disregarded. At the moment, we only know that the Russian people defend their native land and that their leaders called on him to resist to the end.
                        Hitler is a fiend of evil, insatiable in his thirst for blood and robbery. Not content with the fact that all of Europe is under his heel or intimidated and brought to various forms of humiliating submission, he now wants to doom the masses of Russia and Asia to massacre and devastate. The terrible war machine that we and the rest of the civilized world are so stupid, so careless, so insensitive allowed the Nazi gangsters to create almost nothing from year to year, cannot remain inactive, otherwise it will rust or fall apart. It must be in constant motion, absorbing human lives and trampling the hearths and rights of hundreds of millions of people. Moreover, it must be fed not only meat, but also oil.
                        That is why this bloodthirsty robber must send his mechanized armies to new fields of massacre, robbery and devastation. No matter how poor the Russian peasants, workers and soldiers, he must deprive them of the oil that drives their plows, and thus cause hunger, which the history of mankind did not know. But the massacre and devastation that his victory will bring to the Russian people (if only he succeeds, because he has not yet won it), would in itself be only a step in his attempt to plunge four hundred or five hundred million people living in China, and three hundred and fifty millions living in India into the bottomless abyss of human degradation, over which the satanic emblem of the swastika is erected. It would not be an exaggeration to state here, this summer evening, that the life and happiness of another billion people are now threatened by brutal Nazi violence. This is enough to take our breath away. But I will tell you about something else that is behind it, something that very closely affects the life of Britain and the United States.
                        The only essence and principle of the Nazi regime is greed and racial domination. In his businesslike cruelty, fierce aggression, he surpassed all kinds of human baseness. Over the past twenty-five years, no one has been such a stubborn opponent of communism like me. I will not refuse a single word that I have ever said about him. But all this pales in front of the spectacle that now unfolds before us. The past with its crimes, mistakes and tragedies recedes to the side. I see Russian soldiers standing on the threshold of their native land, guarding the fields that their fathers cultivated from time immemorial. I see them standing guard over their houses, where their mothers and wives pray, for there are times when everyone prays, for the safety of their loved ones, for the return of their breadwinners, their warriors, their defenders. I see ten thousand villages in Russia, where livelihoods were squeezed out of the land with such difficulty, where there are still primitive human joys, where girls laugh and children play. I see how the Nazi war machine is approaching all this in a monstrous onslaught, with its dapper Prussian officers clanging spurs and clicking heels, with her clever specialists who have fresh experience of scaring and tying the arms and legs of a dozen countries. I also see the stupid, trained, submissive, cruel masses of the Hun soldier, stretching like a flock of crawling locusts. I see a flight of German bombers and fighters, with their wounds not yet healed by the blows of the British scourge: they enjoy a victim that seems more accessible and less dangerous to them ...
                        And now I have to announce the decision of the government of His Majesty - and I am sure that the great dominions will agree with this decision over time - for we are obliged to speak now, immediately, without a single day of delay. I have to make a declaration. But can you doubt what our policy will be? We have only one goal, only one and only unshakable desire. We firmly decided to destroy Hitler and all traces of the Nazi regime. Nothing will turn us away from this goal - nothing. We will never enter into negotiations, we will never negotiate with Hitler or with any of his gang. We will fight with him on land, we will fight with him at sea, we will fight with him in the air until, with God's help, we rid the earth of its shadow and free the peoples of the earth from its yoke. Any person or state that fights against Nazism will receive help from us. Every person or state that goes with Hitler is our enemy. This applies not only to states, but also to all representatives of the infamous Quisling race, which are becoming tools and agents of the Nazi regime, directed against their compatriots and against their native country. They, these quislings, like the Nazi leaders themselves, unless they are overthrown by their own compatriots, which will save us from unnecessary worries, will be given us the very next day after winning the fair trial of the Allied Tribunals. This is our policy, such is our declaration. It follows that we will provide Russia and the Russian people with any help we can provide. We will call on all our friends and allies in all parts of the globe to follow this path and adhere to it as we do, honestly and steadily to the end.
                        We offered the government of Soviet Russia any technical and economic assistance that we could possibly find useful. We will bomb Germany during the day, as well as at night, with increasing force, dropping more and more bombs on it from month to month and forcing the German people to taste and swallow every month a more and more difficult dose of the disasters that the Germans doomed to humanity. It is significant that just yesterday the Royal Air Force, fighting over the territory of France, shot down 28 Hun combat vehicles; it was in the sky above the French earth, which the Huns captured, defiled, and, as they claim, held firmly. But this is only the beginning. From now on, the operations of our air forces will take place on an even larger scale. In the next six months, the assistance that we receive from the United States with military materials of a diverse nature, especially heavy bombers, will begin to affect.
                        Now is not the time to moralize the mistakes of countries or governments that allowed them to be beaten individually, while by combined actions they could save themselves and save the whole world from this catastrophe. But, speaking a few minutes ago about Hitler’s bloodthirstiness and Hitler’s insatiable appetites, which pushed or carried him on the path of Russian adventure, I said that there was a deeper motive behind this crime. He seeks to destroy Russian power, because he hopes that, if successful, he will be able to turn the main forces of his army and aircraft from the East and throw them against our island, which, as he knows, he must either defeat or be punished for his crimes. Hitler's invasion of Russia is nothing more than a prelude to an attempt to invade the British Isles.
                      2. 0
                        20 June 2019 20: 50
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Stalin and Hitler were equally disagreeable to Churchill

                        That is, he had no problems in uniting with Hitler.
                      3. 0
                        21 June 2019 04: 53
                        With dead Hitler. That is, with the Germans without Hitler.
                      4. 0
                        21 June 2019 23: 17
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        With dead Hitler.

                        According to your own words Stalin and Hitler were equally disagreeable to Churchill and he teams up with Stalin. So why couldn't he team up with Hitler?
                      5. 0
                        22 June 2019 06: 56
                        In my own words, because Hitler is close to England, he is in immediate danger, and Stalin is somewhere far away. Problems are solved in the order they are received.
                      6. +1
                        23 June 2019 08: 35
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        From my words, because Hitler is next to England

                        Already at that time, the level of development of military equipment made the distance from England to the USSR by no means an insurmountable obstacle. And taking into account that the USSR practically bordered on the British colonies in Asia, then he didn’t have to attack either - it was enough to send troops to India.
                      7. 0
                        23 June 2019 10: 04
                        For Stalin, bringing troops into India is just as difficult as for Hitler to drop troops in England. Who in these cases represents a great threat to England?
                      8. 0
                        23 June 2019 10: 07
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        how to hitler to land troops in england

                        Landing in England, with the dominance of the English fleet at sea, is mass suicide. Any landing operation is possible only if the fleet of the landing party dominates, otherwise the landing will be at the bottom. Stalin and India did not have such problems.
                      9. 0
                        23 June 2019 10: 22
                        The problem of Stalin --- Hitler with the Wehrmacht at the borders of the USSR.
                        Churchill June 22, 1941 on the radio:

                        But, speaking a few minutes ago about Hitler’s bloodthirstiness and Hitler’s insatiable appetites, which pushed or carried him on the path of Russian adventure, I said that there was a deeper motive behind this crime. He seeks to destroy Russian power, because he hopes that, if successful, he will be able to turn the main forces of his army and aircraft from the East and throw them against our island, which, as he knows, he must either defeat or be punished for his crimes. Hitler's invasion of Russia is nothing more than a prelude to an attempt to invade the British Isles.
                      10. 0
                        25 June 2019 20: 54
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        The problem of Stalin --- Hitler with the Wehrmacht at the borders of the USSR.

                        Problem. The question was whether it would have to be resolved or cost, and if necessary, then with or without allies, and who would become Hitler's ally.
                      11. 0
                        26 June 2019 17: 15
                        And so it was clear what had to be decided. Other --- childish naivety.
                      12. 0
                        26 June 2019 19: 38
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        And so it was clear what had to be decided.

                        Or Hitler will get bogged down in the west.
                      13. -1
                        26 June 2019 21: 13
                        Nicholas II did not have such thoughts about the Kaiser. The "stupid" tsar turned out to be smarter than the brilliant Stalin, otherwise Germany would not need World War II.
                      14. 0
                        28 June 2019 18: 42
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Nicholas II did not have such thoughts about the Kaiser.

                        It was not stupid, I never considered him. But such a quick defeat of France in 1940 was a surprise to everyone.
                      15. 0
                        28 June 2019 20: 49
                        However, the invasion of France was not a surprise. This had to be prepared in advance, and the landing of the British and French troops in Norway in April 1940 was a direct signal to bring the Red Army in full combat readiness. The invasion of France is a signal for an attack on Romania. Ploiesti. Even if France falls, the invasion of the USSR will not take place without Romanian oil, and the Wehrmacht did not have such a plan at that time. Active actions of the USSR will force Germany to improvise, but this is certainly not a blitzkrieg.
                      16. 0
                        29 June 2019 08: 04
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        However, the invasion of France was not a surprise.

                        Did not have. But only if the USSR hit first, then an alliance against it would be quite possible.
                      17. 0
                        29 June 2019 08: 59
                        The French wanted someone to fight for them, and not fight for others. It is technically impossible to survive France after the defeat of the USSR, their army in the USSR is practically Hitler's hostage if this nonsense is realized. Maintaining equilibrium in the world was only possible by eliminating Germany. Two halves of the anti-Hitler coalition on different scales give balance — this is the result of the war and its main formula.
                      18. 0
                        29 June 2019 20: 21
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        It is technically impossible to survive France after the defeat of the USSR

                        Alone it is possible, but the United States aimed at the role of world leader.
                      19. 0
                        30 June 2019 05: 24
                        What is possible"?
                      20. 0
                        30 June 2019 08: 08
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        What is possible"

                        This we know the history of the past. But for those who lived then it was an unknown future and

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        such a quick defeat of France in 1940 was a surprise to everyone.
                      21. 0
                        30 June 2019 09: 14
                        In war, one cannot hope for "maybe". France was supposed to fall back in 1914 without the help of Russia and fell in 1940 without the help of the USSR, but Stalin had to play it safe. It is not so difficult to predict the post-war variants of the world order and choose the most realistic one, smart people choose balance, stupid people row everything for themselves, like Hitler.
                      22. +1
                        1 July 2019 22: 43
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        It’s not so difficult to predict the post-war options of the world order and choose the most realistic

                        That's just it all depended not on him alone. I remind you that Hitler was brought to power and supported until the very end, including the French.
                      23. 0
                        2 July 2019 05: 25
                        The Comintern, read Stalin, banned the German Communists from blocking with the Social Democrats. Everyone helped Hitler, and everyone paid. Who really supported him to the end, Montgomery, Eisenhower, de Gaulle and Zhukov or what?
                      24. 0
                        3 July 2019 19: 51
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        The Comintern, read Stalin, banned the German Communists

                        In fact, Stalin had no easy relationship with him.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Everyone helped Hitler, and everyone paid.

                        But especially England, the USA and France.
                      25. 0
                        4 July 2019 05: 19
                        And Stalin helped like this:

                      26. +1
                        4 July 2019 21: 23
                        AND? There were many problems in the USSR, and by the way, not all of them had to be personally decided by Stalin, but this does not change the fact that Britain, the United States and France brought to power Hitler.
                      27. 0
                        5 July 2019 05: 19
                        Specifically, this problem was solved under his direct supervision, he decided. Having provided effective assistance to France in 1940, the USSR could, together with England and France, divide Germany without the participation of the United States. And do not say that the future cannot be predicted, the question of the partition of Germany was discussed with the United States and England during the war.

                      28. 0
                        5 July 2019 20: 15
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Having provided effective assistance to France in 1940, the USSR could, together with England and France

                        Already been

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But only if the USSR hit first, then, quite possibly, there would be an alliance against it.
                      29. 0
                        6 July 2019 05: 20
                        It is technically impossible to survive France after the defeat of the USSR
                      30. 0
                        7 July 2019 15: 37
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Alone it is possible, but the United States aimed at the role of world leader.
                      31. 0
                        7 July 2019 17: 57
                        In the United States, the 1937 Neutrality Law was "repealed" by Hirohito and Hitler on December 7 and 11, 1941, declaring war on the United States. In the event of an alliance of England, France, Germany and Japan, no one will declare war on America because of the presence of England and France in the coalition. And after the victory over the USSR, the Germans will easily block the supply routes of the allies on our territory, and the allies will become hostages. Churchill is unlikely to go into such a suicidal adventure.
                        Let's say that the British refused, and France agreed to an alliance with Germany against the USSR. This is even better for the USSR than 1941, since it is 1940, and the USSR has already occupied Ploiesti, which angered Germany and France, according to your ideas, but in reality, before that, you had to stomp three years of war. The Wehrmacht in France, Belgium and Holland, there is no plan to invade the USSR yet, but the general mobilization in the USSR has already been announced, and no orders "not to succumb to provocations." And you offer the French to become enemies of the anti-Hitler coalition with all the ensuing consequences.
                      32. +1
                        8 July 2019 20: 01
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        US neutrality law

                        You might think that in the USA they do not spit on the law if necessary.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        And after the victory over the USSR, the Germans easily block the ways of supplying the allies

                        Across the oceans and seas?

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Suppose the British refused, and France agreed to an alliance with Germany against the USSR. This is even better for the USSR than 1941

                        To begin with, the alliance would be between France, England, the United States and Germany, and end with the assertion that fighting against all the strongest countries is better than against one, to put it mildly, strange. Do you know that the USSR was not yet ready for war in 1941? Or do you think that, they say, they announced mobilization - and that’s all? If it had begun three years earlier, it would have been a disaster.
                      33. 0
                        9 July 2019 05: 39
                        You might think that in the USA they do not spit on the law if necessary.

                        What is the need, if the USSR was suddenly defeated, and the allied forces put up a blockade on our territory?

                        Across the oceans and seas?

                        No, through Germany and the occupied territory of the broken USSR. You yourself "offered" them a campaign against the USSR.

                        The alliance would be between France, England, the USA and Germany and we would end up saying that it’s better to fight against all the strongest countries than against one, to put it mildly, strange.

                        You already distort it. Or do you want the Americans in a cold trap in Russia at the hands of the Germans? Are they fools, all the allies will surrender their armies to the Germans just for the sake of satisfying their hatred of the USSR?
                        In 1940, light tanks prevailed in the Panzerwaffe, the Luftwaffe did not yet have the Messerschmitt 16F unattainable for the I-109, the first serial Bf 109F-1 left the assembly line in November 1940. Wehrmacht troops in France, Belgium and Holland - the absence of any "surprise "because the capture of Ploiesti by the Red Army is a war with Germany. There is no need to play "peace and non-aggression". Therefore, 1940 is better for the USSR than 1941. Positional war on the Vistula border, for example.
                      34. 0
                        9 July 2019 21: 28
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        What a need

                        The same for which they generally started all this - world domination.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        No, through Germany and the occupied territory of the defeated USSR.

                        And how does it look physically? Someone banned shipping?

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        What are they - fools, all allies will surrender their armies to the Germans only to satisfy their hatred of the USSR

                        The fact that a joint war with the USSR was originally supposed is still not available to you?

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        In 1940 year

                        Let's start with the fact that the plans of the "partners" were violated in 1939, and then we recall that the USSR was not yet ready for war in 1941, which it demonstrated in reality.
                      35. 0
                        10 July 2019 05: 26
                        The same for which they generally started all this - world domination.

                        Gentlemen too much, have to cut.

                        And how does it look physically?

                        By rail from France, Belgium and Holland, there is no other way in a land war. In Russia, too, from the Soviet ports on the railways, there are no others, "one direction."
                        To go to the forest with Hitler, one must be friends with a bear. Fill the bear, Hitler will flood you.
                      36. 0
                        10 July 2019 23: 05
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Gentlemen too much, have to cut.

                        This is what they did.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        By rail from France, Belgium and Holland, there is no other way in the land war.

                        And where then? To England or France? By sea, the good of the ports is enough for the front line. In colonies in Asia and Africa? Similarly.
                      37. 0
                        11 July 2019 05: 28
                        And where then? To England or France? By sea, the good of the ports is enough for the front line.

                        And where did you see the front line in Russia near the coast, on Malaya Zemlya? If, according to your version, the Anglo-French-German alliance defeats the USSR, then the front in the final will be in the depths of the country, far from the shores of the Black, Baltic, White Seas. Here the Germans will block the "road of life" for the allies, on land.
                        The allies made the right choice: with an "unpleasant" partner at the end of the war, you have to be on opposite sides of the line of demarcation face to face. And that was done. Your "plans" guarantee victory for Germany, not for the Allies.
                      38. +1
                        11 July 2019 16: 10
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        If, according to your version, the Anglo-Franco-German Union defeats the USSR, then

                        Germany will be the main cannon fodder, as originally assumed, its army will be scattered over vast territories that need to be controlled, and the main forces of the allies will hit it in the rear.
                      39. 0
                        11 July 2019 16: 34
                        ABOUT!!! You really amused me! But Hitler is not a fraer.
                      40. +1
                        12 July 2019 17: 34
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        You pretty amused me

                        Such was the original plan, which we managed to disrupt.

                        Quote: Nikolai Chudov
                        But Hitler is not a fraer

                        If this were so, he would not have climbed the USSR.
                      41. 0
                        12 July 2019 18: 03
                        With such a plan, not to Hitler, but immediately to Stauffenberg. And how did it happen? The rebellion against Hitler took place only when Germany was tightly clamped between the Eastern and Western fronts. Hitler is a bad strategist, but not a fraer, he will not drag chestnuts out of the fire for others.
                      42. 0
                        13 July 2019 17: 17

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        With such a plan, not to Hitler, but immediately to Stauffenberg.

                        All claims to England, USA, France.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Hitler is a poor strategist, but not a fraer, carrying chestnuts out of the fire.


                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If this were so, he would not have climbed the USSR.
                      43. 0
                        13 July 2019 17: 41
                        Fraers are made in sixes, Hitler did not become a six. It was only after his suicide that Dönitz proposed a "separate" surrender to continue the war on the Eastern Front.
                      44. 0
                        14 July 2019 14: 23

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        They make frayers six, Hitler did not become six.

                        Then what got on the USSR?

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Only after his suicide

                        And no one would negotiate with him.
                      45. 0
                        14 July 2019 15: 35
                        Your quote:
                        And no one would negotiate with him.

                        That says it all.
                      46. -1
                        30 June 2019 20: 55
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        The invasion of France is a signal for an attack on Romania. Ploiesti.

                        On what basis? For Finland, the USSR was already expelled from the League of Nations and was under sanctions. Therefore, it traded mainly with the Axis countries.
                        After Romania, the Axis countries would stop trading with him. After which the USSR would have glued the fins together, without any war.
                      47. 0
                        1 July 2019 05: 15
                        Based on the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of May 2, 1935. Let me remind you that in 1914, Russia also saved France by attacking East Prussia, it helped, despite the failure of the offensive. Romania --- the goal is poorly protected, and the oil potential is great. And then even to Berlin.
                      48. -1
                        1 July 2019 11: 49
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Based on the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance of May 2, 1935.

                        Was Romania at war with France?
                        For the first time I hear.
                        Of course, I understand that for some "international law" is an empty phrase. But it does exist. And for its violation is punished. And sometimes, cruelly.
                        So the USSR would be punished for Romania. The same French. After the inevitable (as it seemed then) victory of France and Britain over Germany.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Russia also saved France by attack on East Prussia

                        Russia was with France in one block and this block fought with Germany.
                        Do not confuse a member with a finger.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Romania --- the goal is poorly protected, and the oil potential is great. And then even to Berlin.

                        I have always been struck by the desire to fight some, especially stubborn, representatives of the most unprepared country for this.
                        So in this case, it could have happened so, things would not have advanced beyond the Carpathians and the Danube. But France and Britain would have introduced some other sanctions against the USSR. For example, the Bosphorus and the Baltic would be closed for cargo from / to the USSR.
                      49. 0
                        1 July 2019 17: 32
                        England and France were in no position to refuse our help. They barely took the soldiers out of Dunkirk, where they should close the Bosphorus, and even the Baltic. The USSR shuts off the Romanian oil tap for Hitler, the Kriegsmarines are left without diesel fuel: "Rule Britain over the seas!" --- real assistance from the USSR to those fighting against Germany. By the way, Ploiesti is on the way before the Carpathians and Danube.
                      50. 0
                        1 July 2019 21: 19
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        England and France were in no position to refuse our help.

                        It seems so to you now. And in September 1939 they were of a completely different opinion. And quite hassle-free ran into the Reich. Being ABSOLUTELY confident in success.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        The USSR shuts off the Romanian oil tap for Hitler, the Kriegsmarines are left without diesel fuel: "Rule Britain over the seas!" --- real assistance from the USSR to those fighting against Germany.

                        Somehow you do not understand the layout of those years. France and Britain were the favorites. And the USSR was just interested in Germany holding out against them as long as possible. There are a lot of articles about this in the Soviet press of those years. WW2 was called there "the second imperialist", the case for which the USSR did not seem to exist.
                        But in 1940 there was a shock that no one expected. The French refused, like the "Papuans", to fight for the Anglo-Saxons in Europe. The lesson of WW1 was good for them. And the situation changed instantly.
                        The British immediately became extremely desirable human resources of the USSR. And they, having defended Britain in the "Battle of Britain" (in 1940), got them in 1941.
                        They were almost uninterested in the "giant Soviet industry" - in March 1940, the United States entered the war against the Reich, as always, in a hybrid manner. After that, the Nazis did not have half a chance of success - they did not have so many production and human resources. All that remained was to rely on the wunderwaffe, which in the end did not exist.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        By the way, Ploiesti along the way before the Carpathians and the Danube.

                        That, yes.
                      51. 0
                        2 July 2019 05: 20
                        It seems so to you now. And in September 1939 they were of a completely different opinion. And quite hassle-free ran into the Reich. Being ABSOLUTELY confident in success.

                        And I write about 1940:

                        On May 7, 1940, a hearing was held in the House of Commons on the defeat in the Battle of Norway; the next day, a vote was held on confidence in the government. Despite receiving a formal vote of confidence, Chamberlain decided to resign due to sharp criticism of the cabinet’s policy and a small (81 vote) vote advantage.

                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Черчилль,_Уинстон#Премьер-министр
                        As you can see, self-confidence diminished. Stalin could add confidence to them, especially the French.
                      52. 0
                        30 June 2019 20: 51
                        With equals, always like this, Churchill is equal to Stalin, and not some six from Eastern Europe.

                        It is some six from Eastern Europe. Churchill treated Dzhugashvili like any ban dictator. And that was generally fair.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Stalin and Hitler were equally unpleasant to Churchill, but Stalin was far away, and Hitler was close, so Churchill chose Stalin.

                        Dear, by the time "Churchill chose Dzhugashvili" Britain had been at war with Hitler for almost two years.
                        Learn history, come in handy.
                      53. 0
                        1 July 2019 05: 23
                        "On the alliance with Russia", speech in the House of Commons on May 19, 1939, --- this is also history, teach. The text is given by me in this chat above. Churchill chose Stalin before World War II.
                      54. 0
                        1 July 2019 12: 02
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        "On the Union with Russia", speech in the House of Commons on May 19, 1939, --- this is also history, teach. The text is given by me in this chat above.

                        Churchill on May 19, 1939 was nobody and his name was nothing. He became Prime Minister in September 1939. Therefore, the speech you have indicated is the idle chatter of one of the deputies.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Churchill chose Stalin before the outbreak of World War II.

                        Churchill Dzhugashvili did not choose. And Hitler did not choose.
                        He simply pointed out that AT THIS TIME Hitler was more dangerous for Britain. And it is more convenient to extinguish it with the hands of Dzhugashvili, who, for very small haircuts, agrees on a lot.
                        In case Dzhugashvili had been the first to agitate, Churchill would have "chosen" Hitler. For Churchill, they were alike, but clearly not friends.
                      55. 0
                        1 July 2019 17: 42
                        Churchill became prime minister only on May 10, 1940, the day the Wehrmacht's operation "Gelb" began against Belgium, Holland and France. In his first speech to the House of Commons on May 13 as prime minister, Churchill said:

                        I have nothing to offer [the British] except blood, hard work, tears and sweat.

                        Everything, the choice is made. Stalin’s help would be just the way.
                      56. 0
                        1 July 2019 21: 33
                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Churchill became prime minister only on May 10, 1940, the day the Wehrmacht's operation Gelb began against Belgium, Holland and France.

                        Yes, in September 1939, he became the First Lord of the Admiralty.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        In his first speech delivered on May 13 to the House of Commons as Prime Minister, Churchill said:

                        I have nothing to offer [the British] except blood, hard work, tears and sweat.

                        Everything, the choice is made.

                        Which choice?
                        If we mean the choice between the pacification of the Nazis or their destruction, then this choice was made in September 1939 (but actually much earlier). And far from Churchill.
                        Now, if the British had lost the "Battle of England", then there might still be some options. But the British won the "Battle of England". Therefore, further everything was without options.

                        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                        Stalin’s help would be just the way.

                        Dzhugashvili in 1940 had his own plans for the future. And he did not plan to help Britain with anything. Until the end of June 1941
                      57. 0
                        2 July 2019 05: 11
                        Dzhugashvili had the wrong plans, on June 22 it became clear even to him.
  5. +4
    15 June 2019 13: 22
    Everyone wanted the Second World War. USA, Germany, England, France, all Balkan small things, Poland. Even the Scandinavians and Turks. Even the USSR. Bankers and industrialists, the holy church (and how on your flock to scare and return to the fold?) And the designers of military equipment wanted the war. All the powerful people of this world wanted this war, for how can one show one’s strength without a war? And the war has come ...
    1. -5
      16 June 2019 03: 21
      Quote: Igor Grebeshkov
      Everyone wanted the Second World War. USA, Germany, England, France, all Balkan small things, Poland. Even the Scandinavians and Turks. Even the USSR.

      Only world-class powers could launch a world war. Britain and the United States in those years.
      No matter how hard the USSR (or Poland and Turkey) struggled, they could not afford to launch a world war. Too small caliber.
      1. +3
        16 June 2019 06: 19
        Too small caliber.

        This "small caliber" on the eve of the war (1940) had the second largest GDP in the world, after the United States. Germany was third.
        1. -3
          16 June 2019 06: 25
          Quote: Golden Box
          This "small caliber" on the eve of the war (1940) had the second largest GDP in the world, after the United States. Germany was third.

          Is Britain the eighth?
          And is France the tenth?
          Do not forget to add a zero behind your "second place in the world".
          Dreamers, damn it.
  6. +4
    15 June 2019 14: 39
    One American politician, (Harry Truman) in 1941, expressed an interesting thought:

    If we see that Russia will win, then we need to help Germany, and if Germany starts to win, then we should help Russia, let them kill as much as possible.

    These words say it all.
    1. -5
      16 June 2019 03: 22
      Quote: Fervor
      One American politician, (Harry Truman) in 1941, expressed an interesting thought: “If we see that Russia will win, then we need to help Germany, and if Germany starts to win, then, therefore, we should help Russia, let them kill as much as possible. ”These words say everything.

      What surprises you so much? From the point of view of the American, the pragmatic approach is very correct.
  7. -4
    15 June 2019 16: 02
    Probably could have been avoided.
    1. +6
      15 June 2019 16: 37
      Perhaps ... But in politics, the art of the impossible is valued. As Professor Junta said:

      we want to solve a problem that has no solution

      The personality at that time was of great importance. We do not remember members of Governments and Parliaments. Politics were determined by individuals: Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Churchill. Even in the most democratic country in the United States, Roosevelt could have made his own willful decision.
      The Second World War began because of a desire for revenge. Therefore, many historians call it a continuation of the First. From this point of view, conflict was inevitable. Would it outgrow the world or fade ...? I'm afraid that the topic is too multifaceted and too tough for us .... :-)
      1. +4
        15 June 2019 19: 52
        Exactly - because of a desire for revenge. If the February coup did not happen, imperial Russia would do its best for this. Without us, the victors of the country went too far in their politics, making mistakes that laid the foundation for revenge.
        1. +6
          15 June 2019 20: 10
          And what were the goals of RI in the First World War? And how could Russia "make an effort"?
          We open the memoirs of Sazonov, Buckennen and Palaeologus. What the "allies" wanted. They demanded to grant independence to Poland and create an independent Armenian state on the territory of Caucasian Turkey. Including at the expense of Russian lands. With such "allies" and enemies are not needed.
          It is no coincidence that Sazonov had to pull up Palaeologus, "The Polish question could completely spoil relations between Russia and France."
          That is, according to the "allies", Russia fought to lose part of its territories ...
          1. +5
            15 June 2019 20: 42
            What other goals may there be in a war if this war is Patriotic. That's right - the Second World War for us was that Great War in which only victory was necessary! And they could demand anything, for that is politics. Only by winning the war would the Russian Empire defend its Fatherland and rightfully be able to demand itself.
            1. +4
              15 June 2019 20: 51
              "The goal of war is peace ... Better than pre-war"
              From this point of view, Russia's goals in World War I are unclear. If the goal was the straits, then Turkey was not going to declare war. And Russia acted, so to speak, perpendicularly to its goals. Instead of south, it went to the West.
              It was not worth Russia to fight until the last Russian soldier for the interests of France.
              1. +3
                15 June 2019 22: 51
                You write: "The goal of war is peace ... Better than pre-war." I agree with the first part and no. In the Patriotic War, there can be no such formulation of the question "better than the pre-war", since The fatherland is in danger and must be saved. Remember the Great Patriotic War. The straits are not a goal, they are only a means of repaying damage from Turkey, we did not want territorial concessions from Germany, a certain indemnity was enough. Russia was not going to fight until the last soldier, although at the time of the coup it had already lost about a million people. The war was drawing to a close. Everyone was well aware of this and "thanks" to the February upstart politicians, the offensive was thwarted and the war lasted another year.
                1. +3
                  15 June 2019 23: 05
                  The phrase refers to the axioms of geopolitics. So our consent or disagreement is not required. In World War I, Russia had no reason to join the war. Unless, interests in the Balkans (Southeast Europe). And prestige considerations. Smart people did their best to prevent Russia from being drawn into the war. The first victim of that war is the Russian ambassador to Belgrade, Baron Hartwig.
                  As for the straits, the story is dark and confusing. Russia was not going to declare war on Turkey. The Turks themselves started the war. And only by the end of 1914, Russian diplomacy developed the conditions for control over the straits. And immediately the British became agitated and the Dardanelles meat grinder began. The main purpose of the landing at Gallipoli was to prevent the Russians from entering the straits.
                  As for the situation at the beginning of 1917, I agree that Russia could hold out for a few more months and the war could end a year earlier. But the losses were much more than a million. According to Western sources, by the time of withdrawal from the war, the total losses of the Russian Imperial Army amounted to 1,7 million killed and died from wounds; 4,95 million wounded and 2,5 million prisoners of war
                  1. +3
                    15 June 2019 23: 58
                    I agree with you - Russia had no reason to start a war, so we did not start it. As everyone knows, Germany was the first to declare war. Dearest Uncle Willie, taking on intermediary services only exacerbated the situation. Now it is difficult to talk about those who played into their hands, one can only assume. For example: Lenin, in his correspondence with Gorky a year before the war, discussed this in plain text - "A war between Austria and Russia would be very useful for the revolution (throughout Eastern Europe), but it is unlikely that Franz Josef and Nikolasha would give us this pleasure." ... Complete Works / V.I. Lenin M .: IPL, 1967.T. 48.P. 155.
                    1. -6
                      16 June 2019 03: 34
                      Quote: Citizen Mashkov
                      so we didn’t start it.

                      Really? Have you tried to ask a question?

                      Quote: Citizen Mashkov
                      but it is unlikely that Franz Josef and Nikolasha will give us this pleasure "

                      Ulyanov was generally a well-known "prophet". He also predicted the bourgeois revolution in Russia after his death. Many, many years later.
                      And take it and take place in February-March 1917.
                2. -6
                  16 June 2019 03: 31
                  Quote: Citizen Mashkov
                  "Thanks" to the February upstart politicians, the offensive was thwarted and the war lasted another year.

                  Wow. 4 years fought, and only backed away. Slightly, not like in the course of 2MB, but backward. And then, it turns out, the van der Waffe offensive was supposed to happen. But, as always, a little to complete happiness was not enough.
                  Tales of it all.
                  1. +3
                    16 June 2019 03: 49
                    What fairy tales can be here. Here is an example of the words of one of the politicians of that time:

                    We knew that in the spring of 1917 the victories of the Russian army were coming. In this case, the prestige and charm of the king among the people would again become so strong and tenacious that all our efforts to undermine and overthrow the throne of the autocrat would be futile. That is why it was necessary to resort to a speedy revolutionary explosion.

                    P.N. Milyukov.
                    1. -6
                      16 June 2019 03: 51
                      Quote: Citizen Mashkov
                      Here is an example of the words of one of the politicians of that time:
                      “We knew that in the spring of 1917 the victories of the Russian army were coming. In this case, the prestige and charm of the tsar among the people would again become so strong and tenacious that all our efforts to shake and overthrow the autocrat's throne would be futile. That is why we had to resort to an early revolutionary explosion ". P.N. Milyukov.

                      Actually, anyway, you are setting forth Krylov or Milyukov's tales. Tales, they are, tales.
                  2. +1
                    16 June 2019 20: 14
                    Quote: semsemch
                    Wow. 4 years fought, and only backed away. Slightly, not like in the course of 2MB, but backward.

                    That's it. Before Moscow and Leningrad (St. Petersburg) did not retreat. And backed away far from all the time.

                    Quote: semsemch
                    And then, it turns out, the van der Waffe offensive

                    Germany was simply extremely exhausted and no miracles were required.
              2. -6
                16 June 2019 03: 29
                Quote: Bakht
                It was not worth Russia to fight until the last Russian soldier for the interests of France.

                Britain. The French themselves were framed in the course of 1MB. Therefore, in WWII in 2 they decided not to participate.
            2. -7
              16 June 2019 03: 27
              Quote: Citizen Mashkov
              What other goals may there be in a war if this war is Patriotic.

              What is the Patriotic War? 2nd world?
              Dear, what war do you think ended on 08.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX?

              Quote: Citizen Mashkov
              Only by winning the war would the Russian Empire defend its Fatherland and rightfully be able to demand itself.

              The Russian Empire did not participate in WW2. She died in 1917.
              The USSR participated in WW2.
              1. +2
                16 June 2019 03: 40
                Dear, you did not carefully read my comment, in which it was about the 1st world i.e. at that time about the Great War.
                1. +5
                  16 June 2019 06: 26
                  Dear, you did not carefully read my comment ...

                  The "respected" has problems in understanding Russian.
  8. +1
    15 June 2019 16: 28
    Now there is no USSR. But there are signs of a global crisis. I will not be original and will simply repeat "a systemic crisis of capitalism is coming."
    What is the likelihood of war now? Without Stalin, the communist threat and other bastards ... It is against Russia ...
    1. -5
      16 June 2019 03: 41
      Quote: Bakht
      "a systemic crisis of capitalism is coming"

      In fact, not systemic, but structural.
      Systemic crises end in revolutions. And today, the highest form of human society is the bourgeois. Those. revolutions in bourgeois countries (and they are decisive today) simply cannot be because society has nowhere to move. At first it would be nice to pull up the laggards, most of the world still lives with a feudal OEF. And often slaveholding.

      Quote: Bakht
      What is the likelihood of war now?

      It depends on what.
      There can be no world. And nobody canceled the local conflicts.

      Quote: Bakht
      It is against Russia ...

      Russia’s hybrid war (now in fashion) has been declared 5 years ago. And there is a suspicion that this will not end in anything good.
      1. +1
        16 June 2019 08: 28
        It is systemic. The crisis of the system itself.
        You have already ridiculed the mass of the people with their stupid statements and false numbers. Blessed is he who believes. And there is no point in arguing with believers
        1. -2
          16 June 2019 13: 35
          Quote: Bakht
          It is systemic. The crisis of the system itself.

          I repeat once again for those in an armored train.
          The crisis of the system ends with a revolution.
          The crisis of the structure of the system ends with its reconfiguration.
          Bourgeois society today is the highest form of existence of human society. Therefore, there can be no revolutions in bourgeois societies in principle.
          But reconfiguring the structure of bourgeois society, this is a cyclical contraption (in the form of crisis). And the phenomenon is inherently positive.
          Those. STRUCTURAL CRISIS in bourgeois society, it is GOOD.

          Quote: Bakht
          You've already made a lot of people laugh

          You don’t need a big mind to seduce kids in the sandbox.
          Quote: Bakht
          phony utterances and false numbers

          And who are you to evaluate my statements and the figures given by Noah? I can confirm all my statements and figures with documents.
          For example, the figures for the losses of the USSR in 2 MB declassified in 2017. Check out:
          http://polkrf.ru/news/1275/parlamentskie_slushaniya_patrioticheskoe_vospitanie_bessmertnyiy_polk/
          I can confirm other figures and statements. If there is a desire.

          Quote: Bakht
          And there is no point in arguing with believers

          That's the point. Scoop is an adherent of pseudo-religion (sectarian type) called "Marxism-Leninism", which was dominant under "socialism". And "socialism" is a theocratic slave society based on "Marxism-Leninism". Therefore, it is extremely difficult to explain anything to the sectarian scoops. They see the world and the past with different eyes. Blurred eyes.
          The USSR, the fiefdom of the scoops collapsed, unable to withstand the competition in the world. But the scoops have not disappeared from this, they live and even reproduce. At the same time, he no longer had a dominant position in society, as it was in the USSR under "socialism" (December 1927, December 1991).
          I won’t write further, I don’t want to tell scoops who they really are and what their role is in modern society in Russia. But you yourself could guess.
          1. 0
            16 June 2019 13: 41
            The fact of the matter is that there is no mention of any declassified data from the State Plan. No one has ever seen him. But there is an official conclusion of the joint commission of the Ministry of Defense, the FSB, Rosstat about losses. 26,6 million
            When you find a link to your linden give here.
            As for the mind .... I noticed that there is no big mind and is not expected. So you only have children in the sandbox to make fun of.
            1. -1
              16 June 2019 13: 55
              Quote: Bakht
              The fact of the matter is that there is no mention of any declassified data from the State Plan.

              Those. Did the representatives of the Immortal Regiment movement put bullshit on the deputies of the State Duma, representatives of the Ministry of Defense and veteran organizations? And none of them uttered a word, no refutation of the given figures for 2 years followed.
              Who do you think is an idiot?

              Quote: Bakht
              But there is an official conclusion of the joint commission of the Ministry of Defense, the FSB, Rosstat about losses. 26,6 million

              These figures are already overgrown with moss. In the same way as all the previous "reliable figures of the official bodies of the USSR" on this topic.

              Quote: Bakht
              When you find a link to your linden give here.

              http://polkrf.ru/news/1275/parlamentskie_slushaniya_patrioticheskoe_vospitanie_bessmertnyiy_polk/

              Quote: Bakht
              I noticed that there is no big mind and is not expected.

              No, I don’t think that you will be able to notice something. This is not given to everyone.

              Quote: Bakht
              So you only make children laugh in the sandbox.

              What I do in this case with you. The good news is that not all users of your level. I write for them.
  9. +3
    15 June 2019 16: 35
    The Second World War would definitely be unleashed. There would have been Hitler, would have found someone else. And spit incendiaries what kind of political system in Russia. The main goal of such wars is Russia and the Russians.
    As long as there are Anglo-Saxons on this planet with their ambitions for world domination, the Third World is still possible. And the main goal again will be Russia and the Russians.
    Therefore, our army should always be combat-ready and provided with all the most modern.
    1. +4
      15 June 2019 17: 59
      The fact that we are now two minutes from the Third World War suggests that crises are resolved only by military means.
      In this particular case (1939), Hitler wanted revenge and return the lost lands. The fact that the struggle for Dancing led to the war with Great Britain was an unpleasant surprise for him. He always wanted to make peace with Britain. But what would he do after such a world? ....
      In the previous discussion, I said that Russia with one fact of its existence limits the freedom of action of the West. Therefore, the war against Russia for the West has been an idea-fix for many centuries. Peaceful cooperation is not considered. I hope that now in the West they will grow wiser. Though...

      the amount of mind on the planet is a constant value. And the population is growing

      Peaceful existence in Europe is possible only with the close union of Russia and Germany. This is my fix idea. Other combinations are not viable. If China joins such an alliance, then the hegemony of the Anglo-Saxons will come full fur animal.
      1. +5
        15 June 2019 20: 47
        As always - THANKS for reading and interesting discussion!
        I hope that we managed to develop a little the topic that arose here after the previous article.
        I invite everyone who is interested to June 22 to familiarize themselves with my version of the events of this day in 1941
        Thanks again, dear readers!
      2. -4
        16 June 2019 04: 04
        Quote: Bakht
        The fact that we are now two minutes from the Third World,

        You just make me laugh. And who will fight? What are the sides of this war?

        Quote: Bakht
        Russia with one fact of its existence limits the freedom of action of the West.

        Ah, well done. Such things can even be said from the stage. For money. In the evenings of humor and laughter.

        Quote: Bakht
        Therefore, the war against Russia for the West has been an idea-fix for many centuries.

        But what is it not being realized? Is this fix idea?
        For example, I don’t even know allusions to her.
        Do not tell me which ones?

        Quote: Bakht
        Peaceful existence in Europe is possible only with the close union of Russia and Germany.

        One economic dwarf. The second is just castrato.
        Good union. Most interestingly, who does he scare?

        Quote: Bakht
        Other combinations are not viable.

        Why so? For example, the European Union. You did not notice its existence?

        Quote: Bakht
        If China joins such an alliance

        Hmmm. There is also some kind of "urinary China" suddenly appeared. And everything is covered with a thick layer of fantasy.
        In fact, Russia should be wary of China, not dream of an alliance with it. Because he is being held (and in fact created) in case of "wrong behavior" by Russia. And if necessary, the command "face" will not be forgotten. And China will not forget to fulfill it.

        Quote: Bakht
        then the hegemony of the Anglo-Saxons will come full fur animal.

        One can only dream about it today. There are no prerequisites for this.
        1. +3
          16 June 2019 06: 29
          You just make me laugh.

          Based on your comments, you can spend an evening of humor. lol
          1. -3
            16 June 2019 06: 34
            Quote: Golden Box
            Based on your comments, you can spend an evening of humor.

            Someone and looking at the finger can spend such evenings.
            However, laughing for no reason is not a sign of a great mind.
    2. -4
      16 June 2019 03: 50
      Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
      There would have been Hitler, would have found someone else. And spit incendiaries what kind of political system in Russia. The main goal of such wars is Russia and the Russians.

      I want to remind you that in 1941:
      1. Russia was not, there was the USSR.
      2. There were almost no Russians left in the USSR, they were mostly partially destroyed, and partially squeezed out of the country during the war and after it.
      PS. Mom Ivanova and dad Petrov still does not mean that their child is Russian. He could have been Soviet. And he could have been a Bolshevik. And he could have been among the "population of the USSR".
      But could be Russian.

      Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
      As long as there are Anglo-Saxons on this planet with their ambitions for world domination

      And what, in the dominance of the Yankees in the world there are any doubts?

      Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
      then World War III is still possible.

      Between whom and by whom, if not secret?

      Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
      And the main goal again will be Russia and the Russians.

      You have some fad on this subject. On the one hand, it’s funny. And on the other, disturbing.

      Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
      Therefore, our army should always be combat-ready and provided with all the most modern.

      Those. If I'm not mistaken, are you going to fight with the Americans? Are you serious or just joking?
      1. +2
        16 June 2019 05: 41
        And what, in the dominance of the Yankees in the world there are any doubts?

        Is not it so?

        ... are you going to fight with the Americans?

        You (and others) clearly have problems understanding Russian speech. Where is my comment about the "war with the Americans"?

        Between whom and by whom, if not secret?

        Read, I’ve already written about this somewhere nearby. I do not want to repeat myself.

        semsemch
        2. There were almost no Russians left in the USSR, they were mostly partially destroyed, and partially squeezed out of the country during the war and after it.
        fool
        After such stupidity, you have nothing to talk about. crying
        1. -3
          16 June 2019 05: 49
          Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
          Is not it so?

          Is that so?

          Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
          Where is my comment about the "war with the Americans"?

          And with whom are you going to fight in 3MV? With Paraguay?

          Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
          Read, I’ve already written about this somewhere nearby. I do not want to repeat myself.

          Those. difficult to answer.

          Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
          After such stupidity, you have nothing to talk about.

          Learn what Russian means. And then we'll talk.
          I give a tip, Baron Wrangel (as an option, Admiral Kolchak) 100% Russian.
          But Mishka Kalinin is not Russian at all. He is Soviet.
          1. +2
            16 June 2019 07: 24
            But Mishka Kalinin is not Russian at all. He is Soviet.

            You confuse soft with warm.
            Learn what nationality is and what citizenship is.
            Then we talk.
            1. -1
              16 June 2019 07: 27
              Quote: Ivan Dudnik
              Learn what nationality is and what citizenship is.

              I am writing to you about nationality. Just not in the Soviet interpretation of this issue. And in the generally accepted.
          2. +1
            16 June 2019 07: 54
            .... Kalinin generally nifiga is not Russian. He is Soviet.

            There is no such nationality.
            1. -1
              16 June 2019 13: 16
              Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
              There is no such nationality.

              Just as it is. Unfortunately. And the Communists in the USSR claimed that there is.
      2. +3
        16 June 2019 06: 37
        I want to remind you that in 1941:
        1. Russia was not, there was the USSR.

        I want to remind you that in the West the USSR was called Soviet Russia. And in everyday life it’s just Russia.

        2. There were almost no Russians left in the USSR ...

        In this comment you have broken your own day by level stupidity.
        1. -3
          16 June 2019 06: 39
          Quote: Golden Box
          that in the West of the USSR they called Soviet Russia.

          This is their problem.

          Quote: Golden Box
          In this comment, you broke your bottom in terms of stupidity.

          You need to learn. You look, and it will be good for you.
  10. -5
    15 June 2019 18: 55
    Quote: Fervor
    One American politician, (Harry Truman) in 1941,

    Comrade Stalin thought absolutely the same way and even jumped for joy: "... I deceived, I deceived ..." after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
    In 1938-39. everyone played against everyone and everyone against everyone, even a petty thing like "Speech pospolita".
    There was only one idiot: "Adolf Aloizovich".
    As it seems to me, the Americans and the British did it better and any dull gundoshenie "... delayed the opening of the second front ..." is equivalent to the well-known "cat for ...". The Anglo-Saxons acted strictly in accordance with the idea expressed by Truman, and Stalin would also have delayed the opening of the second front if the development of events had gone in a different scenario.
    1. +4
      15 June 2019 19: 17
      I don't think Stalin was "jumping for joy." He does not look like a person who jumps ...
      Stalin took the Treaty more than seriously. And he believed that he postponed the war. But the fact that the war will be - he had no doubt.
      1. -5
        15 June 2019 20: 35
        Allegations of "Stalin's peacefulness", about the desire to "postpone the war," against the background of a DEEP study of declassified documents by both anti-Stalinists (for example M. Solonin) and Stalinists (for example A. Isaev) now looks like an odious thing.
        Soviet, so-called "historians", and in fact - a gigantic institution of lured lampasoid liars, for 70 years, committed crimes against their own people, distorting the facts. And this whole institution of well-fed hogs collapsed, just like the USSR, only longer in time. The first destroyer of this institution, V. Suvorov (V. Rezun), did not have access to any secrets, but, acting only on the basis of an analysis of open sources, literally mocked them, making them look like such fools that there was nowhere else. So far, not all of them have died out and, unable to restructure their thinking, the gundos are "... the USSR was not ready ...", "... suddenly attacked ...", "... the preponderance of forces ... ".
        I would not like to delve into the dispute, but I will note that Stalin, of course, "did not doubt" that there would be a war, since somewhere in the first half of July he was going to fuck Hitler himself.
        If you are not familiar with the works of M. Solonin, I recommend it.
        In the 60s, I studied in the 6th grade and we had a physics teacher, Pyotr Vissarionovich Kharitonov, a front-line soldier and a former officer. What could I understand at that age and with the informational environment that existed at that time? Nevertheless, for the rest of my life I remembered his words, spoken among other things, and without making any conclusions, which only in the 90s did V. Suvorov make: "They talk about the surprise of the German attack? - Nonsense. Our unit is still May 18 ( 1941) began redeployment to the border. "
        1. +4
          15 June 2019 20: 47
          It is useless to argue with rezunistami. Isaev was well cited as an example. He didn’t leave stone upon stone from Rezun.
          1. -5
            15 June 2019 20: 54
            I regret your mood, however, you lag behind.
            Find on the Internet a discussion of A. Isaev and M. Solonin within the cycle "The Price of Victory".
            1. +4
              15 June 2019 21: 09
              I would not want to delve into the debate

              This is the wisest decision on your part. I don’t need to watch the discussions. All the books of Rezun, Isaev and Solonin are in my library.
            2. +3
              15 June 2019 23: 37
              They are no longer relevant. Martirosyan, Kozinkin, Mukhin have long dealt with them.
  11. +5
    15 June 2019 23: 28
    And yet, the allies who have gone too far and too reveled in their own victory over the “treacherous Teutons” made a huge mistake - in their own cruelty and greed for the defeated, they went too far.

    Germany was not just defeated - the Germans were robbed and humiliated as soon as it is possible to humiliate a people that for centuries considered itself a nation of born warriors.

    Well, what a mistake! Everything was planned from the beginning, it was necessary to complete the tasks that were not completed. For example, the revolution in Russia that has gotten out of control of the West.
    After all, it is well known that one of the creators of the Treaty of Versailles, Marshal Foch, said that this was not peace, but a truce for 20 years. And he said this in 1919. So add up these two numbers.
    1. -4
      16 June 2019 04: 19
      Quote: boriz
      For example, the revolution in Russia that has gotten out of control of the West.

      Those. revolution in Russia cranked up by the Westerners? It’s ridiculous.
      1. +3
        16 June 2019 06: 41
        Funny.

        And thank you. He laughed heartily. lol
  12. -5
    16 June 2019 02: 24
    In general, the article is interesting. But there are a few points:

    And why did you suddenly get the idea that Hitler would not have fallen on Russia if it weren’t for the Bolsheviks to rule?

    So who Hitler wanted to sneeze on is those who were in power in this state formation in the east (at that time it was the USSR and the Bolsheviks). Hitler did not fight with the USSR and the Bolsheviks, he fought with a serious and powerful opponent, with the Anglo-Saxons. And the war on the Eastern Front is a special case. One of the phases is 2MB.

    “Drang nah osten” was not invented by him at all, but by amateurs “to expand the living space” at our expense many centuries earlier.

    The Nazis and was invented. Moreover, not earlier than the fall of 1940. After the failure of the negotiations of Molotov and Hitler in Berlin. November 1940, if not mistaken.

    Our colossal natural resources, our lands, which can be inhabited by fertile "Aryans", turning their inhabitants into slaves for these same "new owners" - all this has attracted the conquerors for a long time, and attracts today.

    And this is generally, sorry, nonsense. There are no "colossal natural resources," and they are inventions of the Bolsheviks and Communists. Yes, there are some reserves of oil, gas, metals and timber. But in per capita terms, very little.
    But in the 40s, and this was not, because Massive development of oil and gas fields began after the adoption of the 1961 Program (Khrushchev).
    As for land, there are none suitable for agricultural production either. The main part of Russian lands lies in areas unfavorable for human habitation. And the rest is mainly in areas of risky farming and other agricultural production.
    The same cowsheds must be built capital, and in winter they also need to be heated. And this is add. costs. As a result, meat, milk and so on are "golden".
    As for "turning into slaves", how could Soviet slaves (they were all the inhabitants of the USSR without exception, except for the mustachioed katso) once again turned into slaves, if in the USSR they were legally defined as slaves (the last, completing the process of transformation into slaves, a legislative act on this score was the Decree of the PVS of the USSR of June 26, 1940).

    And, in the end, if the Third Reich didn’t arise, there would be someone in our Homeland who could be poisoned

    There is a question, "why?" Who in the 30s was interested in the beggar, backward and gradually degraded "priest of the world" called the USSR?

    However, most likely, a whole coalition of different countries would act against us, to calculate all the members of which is a long and thankless task.

    The scoops need to be more modest. I, of course, understand that a totally misplaced megalomaniac is "all of them." But one must at least sometimes get out of the image and look at the USSR as if from the outside. A lot of interesting things can be noticed.

    It can be stated with the highest degree of certainty - the Second World War would have erupted, with almost any not-so-significant deviations from the history we know.

    But you can’t argue with that. 2MB was indeed inevitable.

    Today, at propaganda events, such as the anniversary of the Normandy landing, arranged to obscure the historical truth as much as possible,

    There was no landing in Normandy?

    In the same way, it is incorrect, in my opinion, to say that the attack on our country was caused solely by the desire to destroy the Soviet system in it.

    The last thing the Germans were interested in on June 22.06.41, XNUMX was the "Soviet system".
    By the way, in the USSR the "Soviet system" ended in the 20s. And since December 1927, "socialism" was quite officially in the USSR. At first it was "built" as it were. And from December 1936 it was already, as it were, built. Again, quite official.
    "Soviet system" and "socialism" are actually different things. Very much.

    Everything was simpler and simpler - the "collective West" was going to kill Russia.

    He couldn't do it. If only because Russia was killed during the period of the massacre organized by the Bolsheviks, which they called the "Civil War".
    USSR, this is far from Russia.

    For the umpteenth time in its history ..

    Yes? And which, if not secret?

    And the fact that the invaders were met by a country that was able, albeit at the cost of tremendous stress and huge sacrifices, to repel the enemy invasion and win the Victory, is precisely the merit of those who controlled it at that time.

    The author apparently does not know that the countries of the Anti-Hitler coalition won the victory in WW2. One of which was the USSR.
    Remind me who created and who "ruled" this coalition? And what was the role of the USSR, China and Ethiopia in it?
    Therefore, less pathos and more facts, be so kind.

    Historical logic suggests that in any other case, everything could have turned out much worse.

    Just historical logic speaks of the exact opposite. Russia's losses in the 1MV were much less (more than an order of magnitude) than the losses of the USSR in the 2MV (19 million military personnel and 23 million civilians according to data declassified in 2017 by the USSR State Planning Committee).

    What would be the result of World War II in this case, I do not even want to imagine.

    And thinking people want. I extrapolate the results of WW1 to WW2, they are simply horrified by the "results" of the Bolsheviks.
    1. +4
      16 June 2019 06: 57
      As for land, there are none suitable for agricultural production either.

      I never cease to be surprised at boundless stupidity. crying
      How, then, did Russia, left without Ukrainian black earths and Kazakh virgin lands, overtake the USA in wheat production? Which for a long time dominated by this indicator.
      At the moment, Russia is second only to countries with a billion people in wheat production. These are India and China. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/List of countries producing wheat
      How is this possible in the absence of land suitable for agricultural production? lol
      1. -1
        16 June 2019 07: 31
        Quote: Golden Box
        I never cease to be surprised at boundless stupidity.

        So why then stupid? Do not be silly, do not have to be surprised.

        Quote: Golden Box
        How, then, did Russia, left without Ukrainian black earths and Kazakh virgin lands, overtake the USA in wheat production?

        Your statements are ridiculous. Remember who helped someone with bread during the famine.

        Quote: Golden Box
        At the moment, Russia is second only to countries with a billion people in wheat production.

        Dear, do you know other agricultural crops besides wheat? Or just eat bread and water?
        Yes, and here's another, ask yourself about the quality of this wheat.

        Quote: Golden Box
        How is this possible in the absence of land suitable for agricultural production?

        I think you do not understand.
        1. +1
          16 June 2019 07: 47

          Dear, do you know other agricultural crops besides wheat? Or just eat bread and water?

          So what is there with the presence or absence of land suitable for agricultural production?
          Will you leave the question unanswered?
          Apparently you have nothing to confirm your stupidity. lol

          I think you do not understand.

          Yes, from what? Your frank lies and demagogy are very clear. crying
          1. -1
            16 June 2019 07: 51
            Quote: Golden Box
            So what is there with the presence or absence of land suitable for agricultural production?

            You do not make the impression of an intelligent person. Even smart, do not produce.
            1. +2
              16 June 2019 15: 24
              semsemch

              The person asked you a simple question. You ignored him twice. And in response only demagogy.
              You do not make the impression of an intelligent person. Even smart, do not produce. crying
              1. -1
                16 June 2019 15: 30
                Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
                The person asked you a simple question. You ignored him twice. And in response only demagogy.

                I didn’t notice something.
                As for the zone of risky farming and animal husbandry, then open any directory on this topic. Everything is written there. And for those who are especially dull, what’s painted, what, where and how.
                Damn, they don’t know the elementary.

                Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
                You do not make the impression of an intelligent person. Even smart, don't make

                I directly do not know how to live in such an assessment from you now. Straight, upset to tears.
                1. +2
                  16 June 2019 16: 02
                  As for the zone of risky farming and livestock raising ....

                  You are lying again. There was nothing in your comment about the "risky farming zone".
                  Here is a phrase from your initial comment that raises an additional question:

                  As for land, there are none suitable for agricultural production either.

                  If you were an intelligent person, you would at least keep silent. And if also decent, they would apologize for the inaccuracy. You continued to practice demagoguery and idle talk.
                  So that you do not say such nonsense further, for your information.
                  In Russia, agricultural land is 386 135 800 ha.
                  Russia is one of the world's largest agricultural producers.
                  And here is the opinion of the American billionaire James Rogers about "risky farming lands" and agricultural production in general in Russia.

                  Russian agriculture should be just a great industry: you have land, have brains, there is a climate, there are people. There were times when Russian agriculture was great. Once upon a time, it will again become [such]

                  https://www.rbc.ru/economics/16/08/2016/57b24d289a794718fe802ebf
                  1. -1
                    16 June 2019 16: 27
                    Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
                    You are lying again. There was nothing in your comment about the "risky farming zone".

                    Wipe your eyes.

                    Quote: semsemch Today, 02:24
                    As for land, there are none suitable for agricultural production either. The main part of Russian lands lies in areas unfavorable for human habitation. And the rest is mainly in areas of risky farming and other agricultural production.

                    Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
                    In Russia, agricultural land is 386 135 800 ha.

                    Ask what quality they are.

                    Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
                    Russia is one of the world's largest agricultural producers.

                    Take an interest in what.

                    Quote: gorbunov.vladisl
                    And here is the opinion of the American billionaire James Rogers about "risky farming lands" and agricultural production in general in Russia.

                    The opinion of some left talker is generally not interesting to anyone.
                    The phrase about "there is a climate" is especially idiotic. This is exactly what is bad in Russia.
                    Dear, have you been anywhere else in the world except Zadrischensk? It seems to me that no.
  13. +3
    16 June 2019 07: 30
    Quote: Anatoly Chipurkin
    There is no collectivization, all kinds of repression and famine (because of which the Wehrmacht in Ukraine was met as liberators and heroes).

    Again these tales about the "Holodomor". What's in your head? Well, how much can you believe all the garbage that its enemies are making up about your country?
    1. -1
      16 June 2019 07: 50
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      Again these tales about the "Holodomor".

      Nifiga yourself fairy tales. Millions of victims, and that’s all tryn grass. People, is that rubbish? Dirt from under the nails?
      1. -1
        16 June 2019 14: 10
        Your famine is a propaganda term, not a historical fact. Many people died of starvation all over the country, and not only in your stinky ukriya, to which the lands of New Russia were already stuck. But famine happened before the revolution more than once. And no less than people died. This question is much more complicated than it seems at first glance.
        1. -2
          16 June 2019 14: 55
          Quote: Gunter Preen
          Your famine is a propaganda term, not a historical fact.

          And where do rascals like you come from?
          Millions of people died of hunger. And for a certain category of people, this is just a "propaganda term".
          Moreover, the famines in the USSR followed one after another right up to the moment of carrying out scientific and technical research and industrialization in the USSR. Those. up to the 50s.
          The largest, of course, was in the years of WW2. His sacrifices are simply colossal. Millions of people.

          Quote: Gunter Preen
          But famine happened before the revolution more than once. And no less than people died.

          Malady and famine in Russia also happened under the tsar. But this was not a man-made (and supported already in the process) phenomenon, as was the case with the Bolsheviks.
          1. 0
            16 June 2019 19: 27
            You know the story at the level of your Ukrainian propaganda.
  14. +2
    16 June 2019 10: 25
    Fine! The vast majority of commentators believe in Russia! Under any conditions! We must love our ancestors and protect the country EVERYONE, to the best of our ability to strengthen and develop. And kinder to be to each other.
  15. +2
    16 June 2019 12: 29
    That's right. For centuries, the West wanted to destroy Russia-Russia in order to take possession of its wealth. And after the Revolution of 1017, it was prepared by the same West, but Stalin promptly threw all this greedy tribe from the USSR. That's when the West began to grow and raise a new aggressor against USSR-Germany and its Fuhrer Adolf Hitler ...
    1. -2
      16 June 2019 20: 37
      Quote: 933454818
      For centuries, the West has wanted to destroy Russia-Russia

      I’m embarrassed to correct you, but still, Russia is most often understood as the territory that today is part of Ukraine. Therefore, Russia and Russia are not synonyms.
      Russia, this is Great Russia. Russia, this is Little Russia.

      Quote: 933454818
      to take possession of her wealth

      But these riches, what are they? I somehow do not remember any wealth in Russia or in Russia.
      What is there in Russia or Ukraine that attracts aggressors?
      And if these riches do exist, then why are people in Russia and Ukraine such, to put it mildly, not rich?

      Quote: 933454818
      And they climbed in after the Revolution of 1017, prepared by the same West,

      Prince G. E. Lvov, P. N. Milyukov, A. F. Kerensky, N. V. Nekrasov, A. I. Konovalov, Professor A. A. Manuylov, A. I. Guchkov, A. I. Shingarev, MI Tereshchenko are they all "people of the West"?
      Somehow very doubtful.

      Quote: 933454818
      Yes, Stalin promptly threw all this greedy tribe from the USSR.

      In fact, the armed gangs of the reactionary Bolsheviks Trotsky and Ulyanov did away with the revolutionaries in Russia.

      Quote: 933454818
      It was then that the West began to grow and raise a new aggressor against the USSR-Germany and its Fuhrer Adolf Hitler ...

      Hitler came to power in Germany in 1933. And Dzhugashvili of his old druzhbanov ("old Bolsheviks") only got rid of in 1937-38.
      Doesn't fit with you.
      Learn the story, young man, come in handy.
  16. +2
    16 June 2019 14: 02
    Of course not!!! Under the terms of the Versailles Peace, Germany had to pay reparations until 1987. In Poland, in the former territories of Germany, the population was really oppressed. This is not a figure of speech. So that war was a matter of time. But whether it was possible to avoid the Second World War - this can be discussed. But not from the position of what Stalin was mistaken. In hindsight, everyone is strong. This is a question for historians, but it is for historians, not for liberal rappers.
  17. 0
    16 June 2019 19: 29
    Comments are more interesting than articles.

    Here you can see right away - bourgeois lovers lie in the comments. Where a lot, where a little, but they lie ...

    And many do not know the story ...
  18. -1
    23 June 2019 16: 07
    As time has shown, Russia needed the revolution as a stop signal for the hare.
  19. +2
    13 September 2019 07: 03
    According to the Second World War: it was impossible to stop.
    According to the First: Russia could have avoided participation. If it were not for the ambitions of the great Relatives, who provoked the Second World War.
  20. +1
    3 June 2020 12: 34
    Quote: boriz
    Martirosyan, Kozinkin, Mukhin

    Oh don't make me laugh.
    You will also add "Lugovoy" to this company with your cycle "Traitors".
    Suvorov must be respected because he was the FIRST and the only one who broke through the concrete-iron wall of countless order-bearers-historians. ”If there were no Suvorov, there would still be gundels:“ outdated tanks ”...“ suddenly ” ... "one rifle for three" ...
    It is possible and necessary to argue with Suvorov, understanding that his mistakes are based on the wildest limitations of the sources, in fact, on an in-depth analysis of the OPEN press, including mainly the propaganda one.
    I literally enjoyed watching Suvorov make “our” fools look like complete idiots. I put “ours” in quotation marks because they are the enemies and traitors of their own people, who are for a place in a SEPARATE trough from the “bins” that the whole people filled, and only a select few devastated, lied, lied and lied for decades. Shamelessly. Shamelessly. They cannot be OUR by definition.
    It is deeply regrettable that, by inertia, since the times of the USSR, Suvorov was recorded as an enemy of Russia and other arguments, except to hiss: "traitor", are not opposed.
    This is, as Comrade Lenin used to say: "ahig stupid! Silly in the highest degree.
    Well, he called Medvedev a "scarecrow" ... well, let's forgive him that.
    Let us ask you to name Medvedev: "the highest mind of the era"; the brilliant ruler of Russia, who managed to be both the President and the Prime Minister, and who drove out Luzhkov ...
    So it will be in the history of the USSR-Russia two "brilliant" leaders: one - "... a great politician, a great commander, a great fighter for peace, chairman of the Defense Council, winner of the Lenin Prize for strengthening peace between peoples, Marshal of the Soviet Union, four times Hero of the Soviet Union, Hero of Socialist Labor, holder of the highest military order "Victory" ... ". Can you guess who? And Dmitry Anatolyevich :) :)