The missing number of AWACS aircraft in the Russian Aerospace Forces can be purchased in China

February 27 2024 62

During the SVO for January - February 2024, Russia lost two A-50/A-50U long-range radar detection and control aircraft (AWACS). This is sensitive for the Russian Aerospace Forces, since the number of such aircraft in service is small, but they themselves are very useful and in demand. In this regard, there is a need to quickly build up such or similar aircraft models in their functionality.

It should be noted that it will not be possible to quickly increase the number of combat A-50/A-50U from those currently in storage for a number of technical and organizational reasons. Serial production of the promising A-100 Premier (based on the Il-76MD-90A with the PS-90A-76 engine) is also in question - one copy has been produced and is being tested.

Considering that reconnaissance aircraft in the combat formations of the Russian Aerospace Forces are needed here and now, and not in a couple of decades, Russian experts proposed even a year ago to put “ersatz-AWACS” on the wing. Such aircraft could take on the functions of a flying radar, albeit with limited capabilities, but in large numbers and in a short period of time.

It was even proposed to take the An-12 (up to six hours of autonomy) and Tu-154 (up to eight hours of autonomy) that are in service or in storage and equip them with Irbis airborne radars, which are produced in sufficient quantities (installed on Su-35 fighters) . However, such measures have a big drawback - a “fighter” radar cannot be placed in a “dish” above the fuselage, as on the A-50, and even the increased size of the nose cone will leave a significant dead zone. Therefore, it is necessary to install two “fighter” radars (the second one in the tail), but this is in any case better than no solution at all.

However, there is an alternative - to buy a ready-made AWACS aircraft with an antenna in a rotating dorsal fairing. For example, the Chinese “comrades” are mass-producing the Shaanxi KJ-500, created on the basis of the An-12, and the PLA has already received over 30 units in a decade. To temporarily close the shortage of AWACS aircraft in the air defense zone, the Chinese Y-9W/KJ-500 (GX-10) with a five-hour autonomy (equipped with a lightweight version of the KJ-2000 AESA radar) is quite suitable.

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zzdimk

+6

27 February 2024 10: 32

You buy from China, and what you bought through undocumented channels will leak all sorts of things onto satellites... A three-edged sword.
1. serivolkf1
  
  0
  
  27 February 2024 21: 31
  
  These planes are expensive and very complicated... I hope ours will get out!
Paul3390

+20

27 February 2024 10: 33

Another thing is interesting - what have our military leaders been doing for the past quarter of a century? And personally the commander-in-chief? If in such an extremely important matter, do we have to bow to the Chinese again? At the same time, having your own technologies?
1. Dingo
  
  +5
  
  28 February 2024 08: 50
  
  Another thing is interesting - what have our military leaders been doing for the past quarter of a century?
  
  "Saw, Shura! They are golden..." (c)
2. svoroponov
  
  -3
  
  28 February 2024 12: 49
  
  They got out of the ass that your parents or even you, if you are over 60 years old, got into by allowing the collapse of the USSR. So it’s clear what our military were doing?
  
  Before asking such questions, read what was lost for Russia during the collapse and, I think, even based on your knowledge of creating industries, you will answer for yourself.
  1. scolopendra
    
    +2
    
    28 February 2024 16: 13
    
    Again, Putin has the wrong people. So they strive to frame the commander-in-chief. If it weren’t for the people, Putin would have defeated everyone twice, and America three times!
    1. dismas
      
      +1
      
      1 March 2024 13: 41
      
      But the people have a different “king” :). Some kind of ouroboros.
  2. OlegovichA
    
    0
    
    24 March 2024 03: 17
    
    All this could be returned to oneself for petrodollars 10 times. There would be a desire, but instead they were affected by villas, yachts, superjets.
mark1

+7

27 February 2024 10: 35

They won’t sell it, and how can you quickly solve the pairing?
strange guest

+11

27 February 2024 10: 37

Will China sell it? Here's the main question...
1. mso716
  
  +3
  
  27 February 2024 20: 31
  
  Of course not .
vlad127490

+11

27 February 2024 12: 11

There is no need to mention the A-100 AWACS, its appearance, according to officials, will take place in 2030. The start of the A-100 development was in 2000, now it is 2024. China will not sell, the AWACS aircraft is a unique and exclusive product. There is only one way out - to "mold" a designer from what is available, even if it is not modern, worse than the A-100. Take old Soviet aircraft and install ready-made radars on them like "Irbis" or others. There is a war going on and reconnaissance, guidance, and control aircraft are needed now and in large quantities. Since the world is being reformatted, and the Russian Federation needs to protect its borders, the Russian Federation needs to have AWACS systems installed on airships that float in the stratosphere at altitudes of 20-35 km. At an altitude of 20 (35) km, the optical visible horizon is 535 (709) km, direct radio visibility is 1000 km. NATO and Israel already use tethered radar balloons.
1. svoroponov
  
  0
  
  28 February 2024 13: 37
  
  You are right. In order to combat various flying crap already in our rear not far from the SVO, in one of the drone, aircraft and missile dangerous directions one airship was raised for testing. The second one works somewhere in the Moscow region. So, if they prove their effectiveness, then they will go to the masses.
2. Charlie's Aunt
  
  0
  
  1 March 2024 18: 16
  
  What’s really surprising is the lack of balloons... Have they really screwed everything up here too???
sannyhome

+7

27 February 2024 12: 16

The PLA has already received over 30 units in a decade

A country of one and a half billion people, with a leading economy, built only 30 aircraft. This indicates its enormous value and the fact that China is unlikely to sell it to anyone.
Scharnhorst

-8

27 February 2024 12: 32

Answer yourselves honestly the question: why does the VKS need a flying radar in the form of the A-50/100? There has not been and is not planned an aerospace operation within the framework of the Northern Military District. For coordinating the actions of attack aircraft and helicopters within the line of contact - redundant. UAVs, cruise missiles and OTR can cope without AWACS. The Su-27/30/35/57 and MiG-31 fighters themselves have decent radars for gaining air superiority and isolating the combat area, but no one assigns them such tasks, and their participation in combat operations is sporadic. Countering the aerial reconnaissance of NATO countries is not politically beneficial. So why???
1. vlad127490
  
  0
  
  27 February 2024 17: 55
  
  An example of the need to know what is happening on enemy territory is Starlink. There is no doubt that the Russian Federation will build a similar system in the future. Earlier, I indicated that NATO and Israel use tethered 3-5 km radar aerostats, they are good in all respects, but in the conditions of the SVO they are easily shot down, because they are stationary, low altitude, large size, you can’t hang the aerostat far from the LBS due to the curvature of the Earth. All these disadvantages are absent from the DRLOiU stratospheric airship. How will the enemy shoot down an airship that is floating at an altitude of 30 km, in your rear, from the LBS at a distance of 100 km. The airship has 20 air-to-air anti-missiles, with which it can protect itself. A stratospheric unmanned airship is several times cheaper than an airplane, more effective than a high-altitude glider. What aircraft can you load with 20 tons of payload and have it fly for 6 months non-stop?
  1. Nikolaevich I
    
    +1
    
    27 February 2024 22: 19
    
    Quote: vlad127490
    A stratospheric unmanned airship is several times cheaper than an airplane and more efficient than a high-altitude glider. What kind of aircraft can you hang 20 tons of payload on and have it fly for 6 months without landing?
    
    And yet... this option: 1. is not as simple as it seems...; 2. is not as cheap as it seems; 3. is not as quick to implement... as it seems! To get airships it is necessary to: a) develop and produce the necessary materials; b) develop and produce airships; c) develop and produce equipment for the stratosphere; d) create an "infrastructure" for the operation of airships! A bet on a "ersatz AWACS" by attracting ready-made aircraft and equipping them with ready-made equipment (the Irbis radar, for example) may prove more expedient!
    1. vlad127490
      
      +1
      
      28 February 2024 00: 43
      
      You are right about competencies and what is needed now or, more precisely, yesterday. Assembling a radar aircraft makes life difficult for a designer on his knee. I suggested what you need to have tomorrow. Now everyone wants to have an AWACS in the stratosphere and fly there for months. We've sorted out space, there are advantages and disadvantages. The good thing about a stratospheric AWACS airship is that it has no flight direction restrictions, can hang in one place, the energy comes from solar panels, and is not affected by the weather. I’ll add on my own behalf that experts know what is needed: Soviet industry is needed. First they will do it in the West, then China, then ours will wake up.
    2. Avarron
      
      0
      
      28 February 2024 01: 50
      
      All this has been produced in Russia for a long time. To have airships, Russia needs to assemble and operate them. All other infrastructure will appear later. What came first, airplanes or airfields, cars or highways?
      Russia has everything, but has no desire.
      Because an airship is a cheap rag with a balloon, you won’t make much money on it. And the plane is a bunch of non-ferrous metal, expensive engines, etc.
      I have been talking on this resource for a long time about the need for stratospheric balloons.
      I hung it in the sky, and it hangs, dangles, and sees far away. And if you attach “shells” and air-to-air missiles to it, then it will be able to snap back sourly.
      If it is perforated by a cannon, it can safely land on self-inflating balloons or parachutes. A short repair and rises again.
      Some advantages, including a large load capacity.
      Thanks to her, by the way, you can hang bombs on him, which are equipped with a correction and planning module, then he will also give life to the snatches of life for seventy kilometers around him.
      A stratostat is an aerial platform for anything, essentially.
      And airships that do not hang so high can have an electronic part on the ground, about two hundred meters from the hanging point. Just attach the radar antenna to the airship itself.
      It’s high time to do all this instead of losing the SU-34 and burying the pilots.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        
        0
        
        28 February 2024 20: 59
        
        Quote: Avarron
        All this has been produced in Russia for a long time. To have airships, Russia needs to assemble and operate them.
        
        Why produce “all this” in Russia if there are practically no airships in Russia?
        
        Quote: Avarron
        All other infrastructure will appear later. What came first, airplanes or airfields, cars or highways?
        
        1. The first airplanes could do without specialized airfields because of their "infancy"! At that time, airplanes could not "work"! 2. There were no highways; because there were no cars! But for mass motorization, highways were needed ... But they did not appear immediately, but gradually! Again, time was needed! Time was needed for the appearance of highways and the integration of "infrastructure" into them! There was no revolution, but evolution! And evolution requires time! Time, which may not be enough in the allotted "framework"!
    3. Avarron
      
      +1
      
      28 February 2024 01: 53
      
      By the way, one more point. The stratospheric balloon gondola can be made bubble-like, similar to the waterproof bulkheads on a ship. And then try to knock it down if it is filled with inert gas.
  2. Dingo
    
    0
    
    28 February 2024 08: 55
    
    A stratospheric unmanned airship is several times cheaper than an airplane and more efficient than a high-altitude glider.
    
    Does the fate of the Ginzburg airship mean anything to you?
    1. dismas
      
      0
      
      1 March 2024 13: 42
      
      Ginzburg was on hydrogen. Pump in inert helium, Shura.
2. svoroponov
  
  +1
  
  28 February 2024 13: 44
  
  The A-100 is redesigning the radar with detection and guidance equipment. Our scientists have come up with and developed something based on something that allows the equipment to sharply increase its detection and guidance capabilities in terms of range, accuracy and altitude. And the radar itself is fundamentally different. Now they are already testing it on board. Moreover, all units are of modular design, which allows for quick installation on board even ordinary Il-76s.
  1. vlad127490
    
    0
    
    29 February 2024 12: 39
    
    It all started with the lack of military transistors.
  2. old anti-fascist
    
    0
    
    26 May 2024 13: 18
    
    Well done then everyone!!!
3. Charlie's Aunt
  
  0
  
  1 March 2024 18: 17
  
  Stupid... To detect low-flying air targets and missiles...
Kuramori Reika

+1

27 February 2024 12: 59

It is better to abandon such bulky structures and choose something more compact and cheaper. Yes, and you won’t be able to buy pilots, and you won’t learn from your own mistakes.
sodium20

0

27 February 2024 13: 44

Yes. This is the most important article published in February 2024. This article provides a solution.
Not only AWACS, China can supply stealth aircrafts, transport aircrafts, helicopters, sophasticated high altitude research aircrafts etc to Russia.
China can also help Russia in AI based arms, ammunitions, vehicles & equipments.
Moreover China can handover any weapons to Russia to test their (a) efficiency (b) accuracy (c) lethality etc.
Thus valuable combat experience could be shared, and would be helpful for China to deal with Taiwan in the near future.
It's a 'win-win' deal for both Russia & China.
The comment was deleted.
Caruso

0

27 February 2024 14: 53

These planes must be given up. It's like Zeppelins in 1 MV are very vulnerable. They will be hunted until everything is destroyed, no matter in the air or on the ground. AWACS will face the same fate if something happens. Databases showed that they cannot be hidden or protected anywhere. We need alternative unmanned aircraft with data transmission to the ground, or based on the MiG-31/Su-34
1. The comment was deleted.
2. DO
  
  0
  
  27 February 2024 16: 44
  
  Caruso, I support every word of yours in this post!
  On my own behalf, I will add that the Su-34 with the Sych suspended container radar is a quick solution to the problem.
  But it would be nice to upgrade the old Su-27s into drones, and attach the Sych radar under them.
  And in the bright future, equip the unmanned version of the Su-75 with a powerful radar with AFAR combat vision.
  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. svoroponov
    
    0
    
    28 May 2024 09: 51
    
    Not quite. AWACS aircraft can operate at great distances from the front line. Nothing will reach them there, with proper planning. And more powerful equipment allows for better vision, including at low altitudes. And the resolution of such stations on such aircraft is much better.
3. Accidentally
  
  0
  
  5 March 2024 10: 32
  
  And come up with air defense/missile defense on the IL-76..IL 96. AN-140T there is no problem...or are you going to ask the Chinese???
Disinfo

0

27 February 2024 19: 57

If the Russians either neutralize the batteries blowing their planes up over the Azov or quit shooting their own planes down over the Azov, they won't be in such dire need.
The comment was deleted.
AC130 Gunship

-3

27 February 2024 22: 01

Firstly, China takes a neutral position and will certainly not transfer such equipment.
Secondly, instead of the outdated A100 (A50u), which never made it into series, it is necessary to create a fundamentally new machine from scratch, with antennas inside the fuselage. In case of emergency situations, the mushroom on top does not interfere and the car can be landed in an emergency. All modern Avaks have been building this way for a long time. Russia has carriers. All 4 are suitable: Sszh, MS21, Il114 and Tu214. All that's left to do is to make and certify 3 engines. Layouts and pictures don’t count
1. Daniel K
  
  +4
  
  28 February 2024 00: 28
  
  And they listed 3 non-existent aircraft))) and maybe 4, although Tu214 can and can be ordered individually
  1. AC130 Gunship
    
    0
    
    28 February 2024 03: 18
    
    More than 100 pieces of SSG were riveted. Half of them are now flying. Tu214 are produced approximately 1.5 - 2 per year. He is the only one of them who has, although outdated, his own data generator
Piramidon

+1

28 February 2024 00: 24

Author, roll your lips. So the Chinese sold it. They themselves need such a cow.
Flight

+3

28 February 2024 00: 51

It's just a shame. For such an organization of work, when it turns out that there is nothing, it’s not enough to fire someone, they have to put them in prison for a long time.
Requiem

-1

28 February 2024 02: 20

The idea of airships is good; China, with its Project 63660, continues to follow a strategic path.
1. Flight
  
  +2
  
  28 February 2024 06: 04
  
  With airships it will be much like with rocket carriers - everyone will be assigned an epic name and will be included in the parade. And then it blows into unknown lands.
AC130 Gunship

0

28 February 2024 03: 25

Quote: Scharnhorst
Answer yourselves honestly the question: why does the VKS need a flying radar in the form of the A-50/100? There has not been and is not planned an aerospace operation within the framework of the Northern Military District. For coordinating the actions of attack aircraft and helicopters within the line of contact - redundant. UAVs, cruise missiles and OTR can cope without AWACS. The Su-27/30/35/57 and MiG-31 fighters themselves have decent radars for gaining air superiority and isolating the combat area, but no one assigns them such tasks, and their participation in combat operations is sporadic. Countering the aerial reconnaissance of NATO countries is not politically beneficial. So why???

What is the air superiority for the Mig31?
1. dismas
  
  0
  
  1 March 2024 13: 45
  
  Radar, in short.
GN

+6

28 February 2024 05: 32

But our main one has a hand-assembled aircraft at the cost of a rocket (assembled not serially but piecemeal); now there is also a limousine, also a piece product. It’s high time to demote all these headless generals, admirals and the minister with the General Staff to the rank and file and to forge victory in the trenches on the front line. Mediocrity, grabbers, drunks
1. svoroponov
  
  -2
  
  28 February 2024 13: 53
  
  Ours has one, and Biden has three. The presence of nuclear weapons in a country implies a flying command post. Macron and the British have one. It is difficult to destroy and easy to move the command to the desired point or remove it from the attack.
  There's no point in scolding.
  Have you created anything in your life? Or achieved anything? Are you a major leader? No? I'm jealous, that happens when you're nothing and criticize others. All our military are busy now, but where are you?
  1. Flight
    
    -1
    
    28 February 2024 17: 10
    
    Under what? Dele? I’m embarrassed to ask, but who knows when fleet commanders went to sea on combat missions with their fleet? Do they even remember how to moor? And the fact that they are in business is what we see, but what kind of business they have is a big secret.
    1. dismas
      
      0
      
      1 March 2024 13: 47
      
      The tasks of fleet commanders have changed greatly since the times of Ushakov and Nakhimov... for everyone who has a Navy.
    2. svoroponov
      
      0
      
      5 March 2024 12: 34
      
      They remember and know everything, and they go on inspections on ships, and believe it or not, even on the land front.
      Well, what kind of business do they have and where are they, you need to contact counterintelligence. There they will give you a comprehensive explanation.
2. svoroponov
  
  0
  
  28 May 2024 09: 55
  
  I can please you, AWACS aircraft abroad are also piece goods, and assembling them and testing them with setting up the equipment is another procedure.
yo yo

+1

28 February 2024 06: 54

Apparently it will be difficult. All symbols are in Chinese. Until you translate.
1. Flight
  
  0
  
  28 February 2024 09: 36
  
  Google will save them, or at worst - Yandex
2. dismas
  
  0
  
  1 March 2024 13: 50
  
  This is the problem for the Ukrainians on the F-16, however, the problem there is something else - the attitude indicator designation system. For reference, a trained pilot does not read the nameplates.
Yuri L

+4

28 February 2024 11: 17

Why write nonsense about China? China will never sell Russia anything even slightly related to weapons, but hundreds of thousands of heavy drones to the Ukrainian fascist - please, powerful digital radio stations to him in any quantity - please, even uniforms - please (out of interest, try to buy them yourself). China has taken its position in the same trench with Uncle Sam against Russia, not in words, but in deeds (apparently, it hopes to come to an agreement, but the American demon is simply next in line to be eaten). So, ourselves, only ourselves. Of course, the loss of three valuable aircraft is a strong blow to the Enemy. Here, only the all-out acceleration of work on heavy drones with surveillance radar can help (will we finally have Altius or will we all go with it?) And, of course, the deployment of an aerostat, or even better, an airship system with a radar like the Belka H036 along the borders. (we have, we have developments) But this is not the case, although many have been screaming about it for two years now. For a long time they were chatting about air defense based on data from cell towers (they are much more common than air defense batteries on Russian territory), but the wave has also died down... And what if there are no more AWACS aircraft left soon?
1. svoroponov
  
  -1
  
  28 February 2024 14: 09
  
  Everything that is Chinese from the enemy is all from the civilian sphere and not necessarily from China. There are enough others producing similar consumer goods there. Just look at Ali Express for one similar product and how many manufacturers there are. I wanted to buy one thing, it’s in short supply in Europe, I looked, there are 18 manufacturers of this crap with different prices, really.
  If we needed it, we would have purchased it and agreed on the plane.
  But it is possible that the characteristics of these devices do not suit us
  One thing is to declare and another is the real characteristics. It is possible that they are even worse than our A50. That is why the Chinese, knowing this, do not sell to us.
  Well, and besides that, remember the military tank biathlon. The Chinese, they brought their modern tank and were very proud of it, immediately had a serious problem with the chassis. In addition, in more dangerous directions, where American and Japanese planes appear, they raise not their own pepelats to intercept, but our Su.
UAZ 452

+2

28 February 2024 11: 20

And you can ask: in the 2 years of the Northern Military District, what kind of weapons has the PRC already supplied us with? What - nothing? So what makes the author think that an exception will be made for AWACS aircraft?
1. svoroponov
  
  0
  
  28 February 2024 14: 16
  
  What weapons do they have that are better than ours? Perhaps deliveries are on the way, but they won’t tell you about it. There is such a thing - military secrets or state interests. I think they are selling us electronics
2. svoroponov
  
  0
  
  5 March 2024 12: 49
  
  Why do we need them, Chinese weapons? If they quietly and peacefully transfer chips to us, then great. In cases like this, weapons supplies are a military secret and no one will share it with ordinary people or even military personnel below certain positions and without special clearances.
Human_79

+2

28 February 2024 14: 20

Dreamer author.
He would also suggest purchasing tanks and small arms.
Three times ha!
Here the Chinese leadership and business elite are already nervous about the sale and purchase of peaceful products from us. And here the author offers to buy this from them
1. dismas
  
  0
  
  1 March 2024 13: 51
  
  The bandits purchased small arms from China in the 1990s. The entry of the TT and PM bolts into the arrow's forehead was ensured at once.
Pavel57

0

3 March 2024 01: 58

All the options listed by the author must be implemented.
Russian Bear_2

0

9 March 2024 03: 10

I doubt that China will sell us these aircraft; these are not shells and missiles.