The EurAsian Times: S-400 and Patriot are not as effective as previously claimed

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Air defense/missile defense systems, quickly deployed in the current conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East, were unable to demonstrate the maximum of their capabilities that their manufacturers claimed. This conclusion is made in The EurAsian Times by Indian military expert T.P. Srivastava, having examined the characteristics and confirmed indicators of the combat use of the American Patriot air defense system and the Russian S-400 Triumph system.

As a missile defense system, the Patriot was previously used during the 1991 Gulf War against the old and primitive SCAD missiles fired by Iraqi forces. According to a Pentagon report published only ten years ago, the interception success rate then did not exceed 10%. Despite the rather low effectiveness of the Patriots, the United States continued to modify/modernize this system and supply it to friendly countries around the world.



Russia has also not stood aside all these years: relying on the legacy of the USSR, it has consistently developed more powerful and advanced S-300, S-400 and S-500 systems. Manufacturers of air defense systems in both the USA and Russia put forward claims to their own world leadership, while simultaneously criticizing their competitors. However, the actual characteristics of their weapons based on the results of operation in the two main military conflicts of our time paint a completely different picture.

The Ukraine-based Patriot system managed to significantly reduce the number of attacking Russian fighters/helicopters in the early days. But from the moment Russian fighters began using certain sets of jammers, the level of target destruction by Patriots dropped sharply

- points out T.P. Srivastava.

According to his assessment, Ukraine’s statements about the alleged “shooting down” of more than a dozen Kinzhal hypersonic missiles attributed to the Patriot system still do not have any reliable confirmation.

Regarding the actions of the Russian S-400 air defense systems, the Indian military expert notes the lack of confirmation of the declared operational capabilities to destroy enemy aircraft and missiles “at a distance of up to 400 km.” However, it should be taken into account that the Russian military does not advertise the destruction of air targets with the clarification that this was done precisely by the S-400 system. The S-400's susceptibility to electronic warfare is described as "currently unknown."

Srivastava’s conclusions boiled down to the fact that both air defense/missile defense systems examined “proved to be significantly lower than the declared capabilities indicated in glossy magazines.” It has been repeatedly revealed that both systems are susceptible to interference. Neither the Patriot nor the S-400 were able to prevent successful attacks by enemy drones, manned fighters and missiles.

In all likelihood, the S-400 is superior to the Patriot in terms of mobility, as well as the time required to deploy to a new location. The S-400 also outperforms the Patriot system in successfully engaging multiple targets at different ranges simultaneously. According to Russian statements, the S-400 system successfully hit low-level targets. Perhaps this was the main reason for Ukraine’s restriction on the use of such shock elements. Another advantage of the Russian system is that the S-400 batteries were provided with short-range air defense protection - the SA-22 (“Pantsir”) system.

<...> Judging by data from open sources, the Patriot inflicted more hits on targets than the S-400. But this is not due to some “better” characteristics of the Patriot compared to the S-400, but, apparently, to a large number of applications

- notes the EurAsian Times expert.

Neutralizing the threat of low-flying cruise missiles, in his opinion, remains in question, since not a single missile defense system has yet demonstrated the real interception of a low-flying cruise missile. Also, none of the systems has proven its ability to fully effectively neutralize simultaneous massive attacks by guided/unguided missiles and attack drones.

Each missile defense system costs more than one hundred thousand US dollars, and possibly more than a million US dollars. This is mentioned because the warring countries will have to more deeply evaluate the cost factor in the fight against the enemy. This is exactly what is happening right now in Israel and in the Red Sea when unguided missiles/drones costing several thousand US dollars collide with an interceptor missile costing over a million US dollars.

- an Indian military expert points out.
56 comments
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  1. +21
    27 January 2024 20: 28
    No more pouring for the Indians. And don’t sell them either the C400 or the Patriots. Let them beat it with bananas and masturbation themselves.
    1. +5
      28 January 2024 17: 55
      Onanapples are good, but it's better to use anonapples. laughing
      1. +6
        28 January 2024 20: 56
        Quote: mik5966
        Onanapples are good, but better than anonapples

        Crap ! You said such a thing that now I will only take pineapples in cans! request
        1. +2
          29 January 2024 11: 51
          In jars there are pickled cucumbers. The basis of Kyiv's air defense.
      2. 0
        4 February 2024 09: 31
        He wrote correctly, because these macaques even use pineapples incorrectly, so they get pineapples in.......
    2. +1
      31 January 2024 18: 47
      Yes. Western 'infowarfare specialists' wants to picturise Russian arms and ammunitions, inferior to their western equivalents. This can be clearly seen in webpages, especially wikipaedia and youtube. For the past 2 years these platforms are supplied with counterfiet materials (text and videos) to degrade Russian arms and ammunitions and to glorify western arms industry. Most of the US/UK based ''infowarfare' propaganda works are outsourced to India. They are funded by Lockheed Martin, Northope Grumman, Thales, Boeing, Arianespace, Rafael etc. Anglo-Saxons created India as a 'cradle of infowarfare' against Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  2. -5
    27 January 2024 20: 51
    If this were a war of the old format, there would be several times more targets shot down on both sides. But because of the drones, any attempt to move the radar to the front will quickly lead to their loss. Therefore, the air defense systems are now half-blind at best.
  3. +8
    27 January 2024 21: 49
    NATO members don’t need to move their radars closer to the front, they have avaxes and all sorts of “reapers” for this, and our generalissimos didn’t bother with such garbage, but now we are all reaping the fruits of this idiocy
    1. +5
      27 January 2024 22: 27
      Once again the country's leadership and generals are to blame. Russia has a defensive strategy. Accordingly, we prepared for it.
      The S-400 air defense systems should not fight small drones. These complexes have cover like Shell and something similar.
      They are for larger low- and high-altitude flying objects, including those in near space - against low-orbit satellites. It’s just that in this article they compare our complex with the Patriot to cover the bad luck in using the American. They are trying to compare the incomparable.
      Well, for others - you must remember what the country went through - collapse, loss of production, specialists, part of the main production or all of these industries remained abroad. That is, it was necessary to build in Russia anew, and where are the specialists, where are the competencies, and so on? Further. We come to our senses, rebuild, learn. Everything will be and something already exists.
      Otherwise, they have adopted the fashion of only scolding the management, although they themselves cannot hammer a nail into a wall without a stick. And some of the commentators are generally stuck in the USSR. There are also many who do not live in Russia at all, but scold them because they hate or fear today’s Russia. That's how it is based on the comments here.
      1. +6
        28 January 2024 09: 38
        We come to our senses, rebuild, learn. Everything will be and something already exists.

        What do you think there is? All we have is the legacy of the USSR; nothing fundamentally new has been created. We are learning something for a long time. How relevant are the words of J.V. Stalin today:

        We are 50–100 years behind advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do this, or we will be crushed.

        Probably even more than in 1931. when they were said.
        1. +1
          28 January 2024 19: 44
          Watch “Putin’s cartoons” before saying that nothing fundamentally new has been created. And yes... just in case, it is impossible to create something fundamentally new from scratch - the next generation of developers always stands on the shoulders of the previous one.
          1. RUR
            -2
            29 January 2024 10: 39
            You are writing nonsense, because in technology and science sometimes there is a qualitative leap - on new scientific principles, i.e. There is no connection with previous development, for example, vinyl music records and CD technologies
        2. +1
          29 January 2024 11: 34
          It would take a long time to list. Look at Made by Us.
          And many countries work on old groundwork. Almost no one starts from scratch. Everyone uses some kind of development or experience.
          Look, when the wheel was invented, everyone uses it. So we can also say that they are using the old one. In general, a lot of things have already been created and used in Russia. You just need to read more and be interested in different areas.
          1. 0
            29 January 2024 19: 35
            Svoroponov, should we look? Now it’s clear why no one is to blame. It just happened. We were preparing for something, but didn’t prepare it. Hooray-patriot, who is doing great, has been detected!
      2. +1
        28 January 2024 16: 57
        all that “is” is the legacy of the USSR, find at least something developed and implemented from scratch in modern Russia
        1. +3
          28 January 2024 19: 31
          You hear, it is never possible to develop anything from scratch. Just a wheel. When you get rid of these patterns...
          1. +1
            28 January 2024 20: 09
            Quote from bda-lng
            Just a wheel.

            The wheel was invented on the basis of logs that were placed under something heavy.
            And logs were not invented, but taken from nature.

            And so - lancets, shells, boreas (in combination with a mace), yars, sarmatians, coalition...
            Geraniums may not be entirely their own, but not on a Soviet basis.
        2. 0
          29 January 2024 11: 44
          Then, to be honest, part of the power of the USSR is based on the developments and industry and so on of Tsarist Russia. And read about Russian developments in specialized magazines and websites in specific areas. There’s a lot of stuff there, including something created almost from scratch.
      3. +1
        28 January 2024 17: 48
        Svoroponov, did you come up with all this nonsense to justify the generals and officials, or did someone suggest it?

        What the hell is a defensive strategy? How does this strategy against UAVs help to defend????

        A simple example: drone strikes on our airfields in Russia. Where is your defensive preparation?

        Collapse, loss of production? This was 25 years ago. Not enough for you?
        1. 0
          29 January 2024 12: 05
          When did the threat from UAVs rise to their full potential? Almost with this operation for the last two years.
          Tell me how you can prepare and pour huge amounts of money into something that was not expected or could be ineffective at all.
          You have a private house and a flimsy fence. Why don't you put concrete slabs around, because there is a road nearby and a truck could easily drive into your house. Yes, because you don’t expect it, it’s very unlikely, if not impossible, and you’re not a seer, and it’s expensive for you. Well, okay, it happened, I moved in. Can you build a fence like this in one day?

          By attacks on our territory.
          It is not possible to cover the entire territory of Russia with multi-level air defense, including for financial reasons.
          We had on-site air defense, protecting mainly the main military installations. But the attacks are mainly on civilian infrastructure. . Moreover, some drones are launched along it from our own territory, not far from these objects. You can’t cover every oil depot and substation. The Americans, at one time, wanted to cover only the main industrial areas with air defense means, but they calculated how much it would cost and decided that even they couldn’t do it with their capabilities.
          Well, besides, technological progress has been going very quickly lately and it also takes time to respond to new products. It’s good to scold when you are not responsible for anything.
          1. 0
            29 January 2024 19: 49
            Svoroponov,

            Let's sort it out. The threat of UAVs came into full swing in 90, when the United States began using traitors. When everyone started developing UAVs. When UAVs began to be used in the 14th year in Ukraine, in Syria before that and in other regions. When strike UAVs and kamikazes began to be produced en masse.

            This lasted 15 years. Only the degenerates did not notice this.

            Didn't foresee the UAV??? What is a cruise missile? Not some kind of UAV? Didn't know about such a weapon? Have you also heard about saboteurs? How were our airfields protected from the Kyrgyz Republic and saboteurs, where equipment was beaten and set on fire? What about the World Cup headquarters? Where is your defensive preparation? She's not even here now.

            Tell us in this vein about the object-based air defense protecting military installations! For example, the base in Engels. Will you tell me?

            In Syria, has no one seen civilian UAVs dropping grenades? The war has been going on there for many years.

            Objective air defense? We even got into the Kremlin.

            What are you talking about anyway?

            Ps. Oh, and one more thing. Our brave generals also didn’t know about rain, snow and wind, right? A surprise for them? Svoroponov, how old are you and how did you get to this?????
            1. +1
              31 January 2024 11: 54
              When the United States began to use its UAVs, at that time we had something to answer for, in addition, the development of electronic and other optics technology, both in terms of development and cost, was very high. It was simply not possible at that time to imagine what would happen in 20 years. All this will sharply become cheaper and will come to the front line, right down to the trenches and front line, controlled by ordinary soldiers. In addition, Russia’s production capabilities were limited; you yourself will remember those times, albeit if you weren’t walking under the table at that time.
              In addition, more effective air defense systems were created and created from similar attack high-altitude UAVs and aircraft of the latest generations.
              In general, other military men will tell you this; it’s simply not possible to foresee everything and how it will happen. Progress does not stand still and something new appears all the time. The main thing is to react in a timely manner and develop countermeasures or, taking into account practical combat operations, develop more effective means of destruction. Russia is doing quite well at this.
              1. +1
                31 January 2024 12: 22
                Well, I’ll add: I’m many years old, I’m already a pensioner. He flew, taught combat use as an instructor for combat pilots, and so on.
                Here many people tell the generals what and how to do, or what they themselves would do if they were in command. Only our generals are actually fighting and they have all the data on the enemy from different types of intelligence and data on our units as well as their weapons. The objectives are set with minimal losses and maximum efficiency. .
                In addition, the enemy is not stupid and they are far from simpletons helping him. In addition, the West is pushing new products with unknown data to the front line.
                Wanting one thing, but actually fighting is completely different. And we don’t know what the command’s plans are. There is a lot that you and I simply don’t know. Well, speculatively, no one forbids you to build castles, and of course, scold you if anything happens, because something doesn’t go according to your plans.
                And I’m sure that the majority of the “strategists” here did not serve in the army - I’m going by your superficial reasoning and proposals.
          2. -1
            29 January 2024 19: 51
            Svoroponov, I forgot. Do you know the length of the border with Ukraine??? It can be closed 100% without problems in a couple of months. The low-altitude detector S-400 catches enemy missiles at a distance of 30 km. And if the A-50 is used and the radar is used against the UAV, then there will be no questions. But there are many nuances here.
            1. +1
              31 January 2024 12: 35
              Everything is possible, of course, in your mind. Just ask experienced air defense specialists how much is needed to build a multi-level defense along the front and to strategic depth using air defense and aviation means. This is a third of the country that needs to be covered. Russia’s entire military budget is not enough here, not counting the capabilities of industry. In addition, we need to keep a lot of things and not reveal the possibilities in reserve from the enemy’s advances, assuming he will directly attack us at a certain moment. And this is quite a lot of everything we need to hold and have, without using it on the battlefield and without revealing opportunities.
      4. RUR
        -1
        29 January 2024 10: 30
        The Patriot PAC -3 with the latest IBCS control system has not yet been used in combat conditions, except in the United States, so far this is only available in Poland, and the S-500, judging by the actual state of affairs, is not yet mass-produced, probably created using Western components
        1. +1
          29 January 2024 19: 53
          Ruhr, in s-300,400, 500 there was never any import. Maybe except for silicones and some other polymers
  4. +6
    27 January 2024 22: 48
    At least take an interest in how the Russian air defense/defense system works. It is multi-level. Each goal has its own complex. You have to be an idiot to shoot down a lousy drone, like a bayraktar, with a S400. A shell, or in extreme cases a torus or a beech tree, can deal with him in no time.
    1. -3
      28 January 2024 17: 59
      Something simple there. Bayraktar is an expensive drone and a priority target for S-300, 400, Bukov and S-350.
    2. -1
      29 January 2024 19: 02
      Simple something there, do we have multi-level air defense? Exactly? Have you watched YouTube videos for a long time, where our S-400s and Tori are hitting? Separately. No echeloning or multi-levelness is heard or seen.
  5. -2
    27 January 2024 22: 54
    What can you do, most likely you are right.
    As an example, the S300, which was once promoted to the skies in Syria, did not show itself in any way. There is no news at all in the media about its use, but the Jews bombed, and continue to bomb.

    About the S 400 the situation is probably better, but after the 24th PR there is much less than before the start of the SVO
    1. +4
      28 January 2024 07: 28
      There were no S-300s in Syria. There are S-400s there, Pantsiri for cover.
      So there is no need to invent anything, but rather read more, although you may have other purposes for commenting here.
      But in Ukraine there are a bunch of downed planes at a great distance from the battle line, this is his merit, the S-400.
      1. -1
        28 January 2024 13: 53
        No need to blatantly lie about the C300. Just type it into the search...

        The S400 was not particularly promoted in Syria, it guards our bases, and Jews, Americans, and Turks don’t bother there, about the agreements. This has been described many times in the media.
        And it was the S300 delivered to the Syrians that was promoted. Here, and not only here, he was first extolled to the skies, and then... silent... The Jews are still bombing...

        What about Ukraine - the S400 was invented for this purpose, to shoot down... no one argues...
        1. -3
          28 January 2024 21: 08
          And yet, the S-400 (and the S-500, perhaps...) is a product of the outgoing generation! With principles, concepts, concepts, structure, experience - with everything that can be called the Heritage of "Grandfathers and Fathers"! Which is trying to "teach life" new realities "A "conflict between fathers and sons" is already brewing! Because "new reality "does not agree with the "fathers"!
        2. +1
          29 January 2024 12: 26
          So no one flies over Syrian territory. It’s true that the Americans appear at the borders with a small number of flights, but that’s all, or they are squeezed out by our aircraft.
          The Turks are similar, sometimes the scouts are UAVs. The Israelis attack only from the sea from neutral waters and then abruptly withdraw to their side. And they also put the word there and it is there, in our time they are not exactly the same thing. They can deliver something to you and officially inform you about it, but at the same time (at the request of the Israeli side) leave it in a warehouse in Russia for the time being. I have personal experience in such “supplies” of aircraft (in Soviet times, Africa). There, even on the first channel they showed unloading at the port, but it was not what was indicated and from the wrong ship.
          Although the opposing side sharply reduced its air activity and then generally concluded peace.
          The Jews warned that they would do everything to destroy these installations. And probably not by aviation, but by sabotage groups. The Syrians, if anything happens, immediately stand up. There is no security among them. And ours simply won’t lose 3 divisions because of such warriors. So while the S-300PM is supposedly listed in Syria, but in fact it is not. Therefore, it is useless to talk about its effectiveness in this area. By the way, the Israelis also note that they did not detect the operation of the radar of these complexes on Syrian territory. In addition, they do not have satellite images of the deployment of these complexes in positions. Although the positions are prepared.
    2. 0
      29 January 2024 19: 03
      Latyshev, maybe because it is not used. Or because they don't talk about it?
  6. +7
    28 January 2024 01: 35
    The country seems to be free, but only some exotic Indians can say something more or less uncomplimentary sad
    1. +1
      29 January 2024 13: 06
      Indians are also those warriors and military specialists, especially S-400, which they do not have! You can “unconditionally” trust them! And also to the Americans and Banderaites, who constantly lie about the missiles shot down by the “Patriots”!
      1. -1
        29 January 2024 19: 05
        Twice, did you miss the delivery of the S-400 to India or what? Happens.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      28 January 2024 07: 35
      Why shouldn’t an Indian write while sitting in America and order to discredit Russian air defense systems? Their systems seem to have shown to be not very good, so we need to come up with something to discredit the enemy. This technique is as old as time. Only those who do not believe in Russia and its opponents believe in him.
  8. -3
    28 January 2024 12: 57
    Quote: Foe Pshekov
    No more pouring for the Indians. And don’t sell them either the C400 or the Patriots. Let them beat it with bananas and masturbation themselves.

    Onanas! This is great! :)
    But seriously, Indians fly into space at one time or another. And they do the CD on their own. Surely there is some kind of air defense system that they will start producing if they suddenly quarrel with the Russian Federation and the United States at the same time. I suspect so. and not alone. Even if it’s a little worse than the imported ones, they’ll still give you a ride.
    1. -1
      28 January 2024 16: 24
      That's right: the Indian spacecraft reached the moon, the Russian and US ones did not... Conclusions?
    2. +1
      29 January 2024 13: 14
      They, crawling on the ground, have not been able to make a normal tank of their own for 30 years, and here you are talking about an air defense system!
      And they were able to fly into space only thanks to our help in due time. And this has nothing to do with the creation of missiles that shoot down enemy objects in the sky.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. -1
    28 January 2024 18: 25
    Common sense says he may be right. Too much money is spent on armament, unreasonably. There have been, are and will be wars, but they must be fought in such a way as not to destroy economies. How can you win a war without an economy? AI in war is very effective, but it will not last long due to the cost. I propose that the UN formulate new laws of warfare: only with cold steel. Thus, wars will not become global, will not be destructive, and there will be no mass extermination of the population.
  11. -2
    28 January 2024 19: 44
    whether you like this analysis or not, this is really one of the ones that reflects reality
  12. -1
    29 January 2024 06: 42
    I’m more interested in why ours were unable to shoot down the Bandera missiles that hit the Il-76 with our air defense; in fact, such targets are a priority am
    And the rest is all speculation, all the technical specifications of the missiles are classified and we won’t know the truth even 50 years later...
    1. +1
      29 January 2024 12: 48
      There was very little time, the launch was from an ambush. The launch was determined and they determined where they were going. They even managed to transmit data on board Il and it seemed to have begun evading. But just who thought that there would be an attack on board with the exchange fund, and even with the agreement of the high parties, calmly moving on the echelon (after all, the exchange was supervised by Budanov himself). The missiles needed about 2 to 3 minutes.
      I think that next time our people will be smarter, if this time it happens at all. They will now deliver by land.
      And everyone should remember that Ukrainians are not negotiable and mean-spirited.
      1. -1
        29 January 2024 19: 06
        Svoroponov, what did you have little time for? Didn't have time to finish it???
        1. 0
          31 January 2024 13: 07
          For incompetent people. Il was hit not far from the front line. From an ambush. Ours do not keep the air defense installations on Buks and Pantsirs active all the time near the demarcation line, and if they do, they do not work all the time due to changes in position and the danger of being hit by anti-radar missiles or other weapons. Putin talked about about 2 minutes from shot to defeat. We do not know what kind of missiles these are and their capabilities in terms of stealth and the properties of their electronic warfare. They could be seen on the radar only before the defeat, and the launch site was determined a little later, along the trajectory, using installations with a counter-battery radar. Most likely, when the activity of our installations decreased (change of positions), the launch was carried out. It's called: caught the moment.
          We must draw conclusions and not allow this to continue. But for Ukrainians, even their highest
          Leaders, both military and civilian, cannot be trusted at all.
          1. 0
            9 February 2024 01: 08
            We need to draw conclusions and not allow this to happen again.

            This is impossible. It is not possible to draw conclusions to prevent this from happening. Because that’s what Putin’s system is like.
  13. -2
    29 January 2024 07: 27
    The topic of intercepting ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads by modern air defense systems has not been addressed. What umbrella will we hide under?
    1. 0
      5 February 2024 21: 19
      We'll hide under the S-400. But it will be best for those who are far from everything. Somewhere on the East Siberian Upland...
  14. +1
    29 January 2024 10: 17
    Indian, where did you get information about the effectiveness of the S-400? Let him turn to the Turks, who tested this air defense system.
    1. -1
      29 January 2024 19: 54
      Sergey, ah! India, S-400, second customer. You haven't heard, have you? Overslept?
    2. +1
      5 February 2024 21: 13
      The Turks were not only happy, but very pleased.
  15. 0
    3 March 2024 10: 54
    Neutralizing the threat of low-flying cruise missiles... remains in question, since no missile defense system has yet demonstrated the actual interception of a low-flying cruise missile.

    This is true. There is a problem - radiation combing below 30-50 meters above the ground can be reflected many times from the surface, buildings and hills, distorting the picture. But most importantly, at high speeds of a low-flying object there is no time to react, even for MANPADS. There is almost no cure for this.