Is it possible for Russia to have a war with individual countries that are members of the NATO bloc?

61

On the night of January 18, Ukrainian attack drones were shot down in the sky over the Moscow and Leningrad regions. It is noteworthy that Northern Palmyra for the first time became a target for the Kyiv regime, or more precisely, those who stand behind it. Where could a kamikaze drone loaded with explosives come from near St. Petersburg?

From here to threaten


The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation officially declaredthat an enemy attack drone was successfully intercepted in the sky above our Northern capital:



On January 18, at about 01:30 Moscow time, an attempt by the Kyiv regime to carry out a terrorist attack using aircraft-type unmanned aerial vehicles against targets on the territory of the Russian Federation was stopped. Duty air defense systems destroyed one unmanned aerial vehicle over the territory of the Moscow region and one intercepted over the territory of the Leningrad region.

At the moment, it is known that it was an aircraft-type drone with a wingspan of up to 6 meters, equipped with a piston engine and carrying up to 3 kg of explosives in TNT equivalent. That is, this is a fairly large aircraft, the cruising speed of which can reach 150 km per hour.

A fair question arises: how was he able to fly from Ukraine to St. Petersburg, in the north-west of our country, covering about a thousand kilometers in a straight line over the combined air defense/missile defense system of the Union State of Russia and Belarus?

The most “comfortable,” so to speak, explanation is as follows: Ukrainian terrorists could have launched it somewhere from near Chernigov, and it flew at low altitudes over the Union territory along the course laid by NATO specialists who were aware of the areas where the Russian military was deployed. and the Belarusian air defense/missile defense system, which is designed to repel an attack from the western direction. Is this possible?

Alas, yes. After the Ukrainian Swifts twice flew to the Long-Range Aviation airfield of the Russian Aerospace Forces, located deep in the rear in Engels, and also reached Moscow, covered by the best missile defense system, and even the Kremlin with Rublyovka, there is nothing particularly surprising. Note that this explanation is the most “comfortable” for us, and here’s why.

Separate war


It's just that the other versions are worse than each other. According to the first, the Ukrainian UAV could be launched from the territory of Independence Square, but before Russia it had to fly over the territory of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, that is, countries that are members of the NATO bloc. According to the second version, the attack drone could take off directly from Estonia or Finland, which recently became part of the North Atlantic Alliance, and fly low over the water, which makes it difficult to detect by radar.

If we assume that something like this could happen in reality, this is very, very bad. Let us recall that we are discussing the possibility of participation of some Baltic countries in carrying out armed provocations against Russia. wondered back in August 2023, when the Airborne Forces base located in Pskov was attacked, and two Il-76 military transport aircraft, of which we do not have many in service, were seriously damaged.

If individual countries belonging to the NATO bloc provide their airspace for striking Russia or directly participate in this, this takes the geopolitical situation to a fundamentally different level. The fact that the North Atlantic Alliance is seriously preparing to fight against the Russian Federation is not only not denied, but is even directly confirmed by the scenarios being worked out for military exercises like “Alliance Defense 2025.” At the same time, in our country for some reason it is generally accepted that there can be no direct war between NATO and Russia, since we have a nuclear arsenal and the Russian Ministry of Defense will immediately erase the West into radioactive dust.

In reality, the situation is somewhat more complicated. Yes, the NATO bloc will not be the first to attack Russia, just as the Russian Federation will not attack the NATO bloc. The guarantee of the security of all members of the North Atlantic Alliance is considered to be Article 5 of its Charter, which says verbatim the following:

The Contracting Parties agree that an armed attack on one or more of them in Europe or North America will be considered an attack on them as a whole and, therefore, agree that in the event of such an armed attack, each them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the contracting party subjected to, or contracting parties subject to, such attack, by immediately taking such individual or joint action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force to restore and subsequently maintain the security of the North Atlantic region.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result of it are immediately reported to the Security Council. Such measures will cease when the Security Council takes the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

By the way, there are no specific legal obligations for, say, the United States to directly fight, say, for Estonia. Everything is written in the most streamlined formulations that can be interpreted very freely. The main thing for us in the context of this publication is that the NATO bloc is considered “defensive”. That is, if Estonia or, for example, Finland attacks Russia, in principle there will be no obligation for other members of the alliance to stand up for them and fight. What exactly follows from this?

Only that the Baltic countries, Poland or Finland, if they wish, can themselves, separately from the NATO bloc, demonstrate military aggression against our country, and when it responds, it will not be Russian aggression against the NATO bloc, which automatically includes the notorious Article 5. When In this case, other countries that are members of the North Atlantic Alliance will have the right to provide military-technical assistance to their official allies without entering into a direct war with Russia.

In other words, this is the same scenario of a war between the Russian Federation and Eastern Europe, as well as, possibly, Northern Europe that has joined it, which may be included in the conflict after our country is exhausted in a positional confrontation with Ukraine. To launch it, confirmed military provocations from the Baltic states, Poland or Finland will be quite sufficient. This is why the increasing attacks in northwestern Russia are of deep concern.
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  1. -4
    19 January 2024 17: 30
    We can easily deal with the Finns and the Balts. Not countries, but just a misunderstanding.
    1. +7
      19 January 2024 17: 46
      You should save your hat, otherwise winter is not here.
    2. +4
      19 January 2024 20: 58
      Guest. You’ll go deal with it yourself, stick at the ready. Take the cat with you so that he can help you break off the Finns. Otherwise, they will whip you with a belt. They don't like stupid people.
      1. -1
        19 January 2024 23: 12
        We have about half a million contract soldiers, and 300 thousand mobilized. For 5 million Finland - for the eyes. There is nothing to say about the Balts at all.
        1. +3
          20 January 2024 11: 05
          Quote: Strange guest
          We have about half a million contract soldiers, and 300 thousand mobilized. For 5 million Finland - for the eyes. There is nothing to say about the Balts at all.

          Maybe stop dreaming about the 2nd Finnish war when (collective Hitler) NATO surrounds Russia.
          At this point, it’s time for Putin to remember his words about how Russia should act if it is surrounded by a “crowd of hooligans,” and who should be beaten first.
          1. -1
            20 January 2024 12: 28
            And who? Strike first? Here you need to take into account whether after the answer you will have to pick up your teeth from the floor. Or an ambulance. Like in the alley - hit and run against the campaign - it won’t work. We have nowhere to run. Therefore, we catch the jackals one at a time.
    3. -2
      19 January 2024 22: 09
      I remembered our favorite children's song:

      The Englishman will defeat both the Frenchman and the Spaniard.
      Yankee Doodle will come and lay his finger on all three of them
    4. +3
      20 January 2024 14: 59
      I remember they said the same thing about Ukraine.

      We will capture Ukraine in two days, to capture it, we suppressed the firing points...

      I remember something a madam with an Armenian surname once said.
  2. +3
    19 January 2024 17: 40
    It has long been known that it is impossible to attack the territory of NATO countries; common defense will be used. Everything NATO outside NATO countries can be destroyed, because this is not an attack, but a conflict outside NATO territory. So why are NATO reconnaissance aircraft and NATO ships flying over the neutral waters of the Black Sea, with obvious reconnaissance purposes for the benefit of one side. By declaring a war zone, entering the designated areas is a violation and using weapons on the violator. Either our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and others are playing giveaway, or there are the wrong people in senior positions. In particular... According to MH77, shot down over Donbass, because it was flying in a war zone. The defense must be built that there should be no strangers in the war zone; the Ukrainian air traffic controllers who sent the plane into the war zone are to blame for this. After all, more than one plane was shot down there, and the danger was obvious.
    1. +2
      20 January 2024 00: 14
      In fact, why don’t the Russian prosecutor’s office begin an investigation into MH-77 with publicity to the whole world. Donbass is now Russian. And it doesn’t matter that the West doesn’t recognize this. But there will be an attack on Ukraine.
      1. -2
        20 January 2024 16: 17
        The PR will be negative.
        Considering that even here in the Russian Federation, in the archives of agencies there are articles about being shot down by militias (and in the West, up to an interview with the now arrested Strelkov, they are available) - they will simply twirl their fingers at their temples...
        1. +1
          20 January 2024 18: 33
          Yes, and recognize the downed MH77 by the air defense forces of the DPR as an airplane in a war zone, because it shoots down someone else without delay. Whoever sent MH77 there is guilty. It’s like at a shooting range, whoever entered the target area got shot. And whoever sent it to the target zone is responsible.
      2. 0
        23 January 2024 16: 44
        The physical evidence was handed over to the commission investigating the disaster. They won't give them away. And what's the point if the West says that white is black?
        The trial is for whom? And we and our allies already know that Ukraine shot down.
  3. +4
    19 January 2024 17: 59
    There is no NATO.
    There is the United States and US military bases that matter.
    Everything else is bullshit. The US will not fight.
    Where is at least some kind of system infrastructure in Europe? She's gone.
    National governments are snatching pieces of some kind of weapons, armored personnel carrier missiles, tanks.... generally outside of NATO.
    The system-forming matrix does not work.
    There is no main one - a single military-industrial complex.
    Everything is private with huge national restrictions.

    Putin takes advantage of this, Trump understands everything, Austin is sick.
    Putin doesn’t need NATO or takeovers.
    And this political pseudo-military entity will not attack Russia - there are too many barriers.

    Polish marches are simply hysterical demonstrations without any practical military application.
    And the entire military power of the Baltic states is zilch.
    There are no citizens left there.

    All the pumping on both sides is needed to preserve the elites.
    Any mobilized bargaining chip in political games.
    Ukrainians are simply expendable to maintain the Western status quo.
    And the Russians are the vanguard of the resurgent Russian Empire.
    Time doesn't matter. 18-19th century in a new wrapper...
  4. +3
    19 January 2024 18: 04
    Only our successes in Ukraine will make it possible to avoid a clash with NATO countries. The greater these successes, the less our enemies will grin. After all, our opponents regard the protracted operation in Ukraine as our weakness. We must do everything to change their self-confidence.
    1. 0
      23 January 2024 16: 49
      No, the fact of the matter is that the West considers the protracted conflict in Ukraine as a defeat for Ukraine. And such a conflict is beneficial for us.
      Don't trust the Western press. They need to somehow justify the funds invested in them to support Ukraine. In addition, the huge funds spent on supporting this misunderstanding reduce the likelihood of their rapid rearmament. Their military understands this.
  5. +1
    19 January 2024 18: 15
    Has there started a new war between the "boortsuns" and NATO? This is the 4th time in my memory that NATO will attack soon...
    2 waves were promoted relatively recently and here....
    Then it turned out that no one remembered their “analytics” like a soap bubble. It turned out to be exactly the opposite of the opinions of the “experts” - NATO is not ready for anything globally....
    1. +3
      19 January 2024 20: 52
      Sergey. Your words are in the ears of God. Nobody knows what will come to the minds of the sick Balts, as well as the British, who were smarter than us in developing various operations in the world. Any provocation could result in a war with NATO even without a nuclear component.. And victory will be theirs. They have a population of 800 million , but our cat cried and continues to flee the Russian Federation. And they have enough weapons: 32 thousand sea- and land-based missiles were aimed at us back in 2015.
      1. 0
        19 January 2024 23: 39
        I once read a serious analysis of how many missiles Russia needs to supply. - 4000.
        Well, in general, in my own words - 4000 tomahawks, so that they switch to generators and pasture...
        1. -1
          20 January 2024 01: 00
          Yes. And dying out at an accelerated pace. After attacks on nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power stations and hazardous industries.
      2. -1
        20 January 2024 18: 42
        People like you should not be taken to the FSB after arrest. There is a tree with a sign saying “alarmist” near the entrance.
        1. 0
          21 January 2024 00: 16
          "Realist". Otherwise I agree.
        2. 0
          21 January 2024 22: 24
          But it’s not so “strange”, do you give a 100% guarantee that the crests will not attach a “dirty” charge and drop it on Moscow using a drone? If you give it, and they throw you off, they’ll shoot you! Do you agree?
    2. 0
      23 January 2024 16: 56
      NATO is 80 percent American. Since it is not convenient to fight on your own (after all, they can beat you and he is the holder of the common fund), he is out of the habit, so to speak, for this he keeps a group of countries like dogs on a leash, putting in the leadership of these countries those who are smeared with something bad or for additional feeding of politicians, for his own protection and intimidation of opponents.
  6. +5
    19 January 2024 21: 45
    All the troubles of the Russian people come from the liberal comprador anti-people government of the Russian Federation. The authorities are afraid to raise the issue of the coup d'etat of the USSR in 1991. All they need to do is issue legal documents stating that a coup d'etat took place and all newly formed states on the territories of the former union republics of the USSR are not legitimate. The entire Baltic states will immediately fall out of Article 5 of NATO, including in Ukraine. In Finland, denunciation of treaties is necessary. The border of Russia is the border of the USSR from 1975 (Helsinki Accords). War will happen when the Russian Federation weakens or NATO strengthens. In 2024, there will be no war between the Russian Federation and NATO. There will be provocations, drones will fly from the West.
    1. +1
      20 January 2024 00: 03
      ...and thanks for that. that there will be no war this year. and in the next 5 years? as they write...

      and tell me, 3 kg warhead is not serious (let’s say the air defense doesn’t see what’s flying. They shot it down, then figured it out...). Why announce to the whole world that the drone was shot down, and that we have the best (without quotes) air defense?
      what if we emit hits? (they would have taken a truck with garbage and hauled it out, like in Pennsylvania in 01)
      After all, the bastards will improve it. and they will fly - and not one, not two... what then?
    2. 0
      20 January 2024 16: 11
      Yes, not a coup, but a “color” revolution...
      1. 0
        21 January 2024 15: 30
        The color revolution is a stage-by-stage technology, the task of which is to carry out a coup d'état and create conditions for external control of political processes in the country, in conditions of artificial political instability. At the same time, pressure is exerted on the current government through political blackmail, and the protest movement is used as a driving force (tool).
        By “color revolution,” political scientists understand a change of power in the state through nonviolent street protests.
  7. 0
    19 January 2024 23: 24
    That is, if Estonia...attacks Russia

    Seriously? Will Estonia, with its half-battalion-sized army, attack Russia?
  8. 1_2
    +5
    19 January 2024 23: 24
    NATO is a suicide club created by the Zionists in Washington, who must die instead of the Zionists and ordinary Yankees (Svidomo became the first victims of Washington, without even having time to join the club). if stupid members of the club dare to attack the Russian Federation, then they must be destroyed to zero, using nuclear weapons. and Putin warned the fools (club members) about this in advance, rightly assuming that the fools do not understand the true purpose of NATO. he may not want to use nuclear weapons against individual fools of the club, but his liberoid economy will not sustain a conventional war, unlike the Stalinist economy.
  9. +3
    20 January 2024 11: 17
    What a stupid question. The war with NATO has been going on since 45. "Superplans" of EUROfascists - "Unthinkable", "Dropshot"...
    "Perestroika" alone is worth tens of millions of dead USSR citizens
  10. 0
    20 January 2024 13: 21
    Grandchildren, children, wives, parents, real estate, money are all there in the West with the comprador bourgeoisie of the Russian Federation. Which one of them will give the order to bomb the West??? Nobody. Even if a nuclear bomb falls on the Kremlin tomorrow, the response will only be in the form of a big Odessa noise. What to discuss? In the future, NATO will transfer nuclear weapons to Ukraine, Ukraine will launch nuclear strikes on Russian cities. NATO countries will not suffer; they did not launch a nuclear strike on the Russian Federation. Russia and Ukraine will suffer. The oligarchs and capitalists of the Russian Federation will go to live in the West, and we ordinary Russians will survive. Like this. What may await us in the future.
    1. DO
      0
      20 January 2024 14: 17
      vlad127490 (Vlad Gor), after a nuclear strike on Russian territory, no one will care about the compradors, their families and goodies, because it will be about the life and death of all Russians, from top to bottom. Since the mentioned hypothetical attack with American nuclear weapons will be organized by the United States, Russia will inevitably respond with at least a symmetrical nuclear strike on American territory. Because everyone understands perfectly well that US impunity here will absolutely lead to a subsequent massive US nuclear attack on Russia.
      So, American dreamer, you are no Nostradamus.
      1. -1
        20 January 2024 15: 59
        Thanks for the compliment. This is not a dream, this is reality. None of the “elites” would want to die because of some commoner, especially from a third world country.
        1. DO
          -2
          20 January 2024 17: 07
          Quote: vlad127490
          None of the "elites" want to die

          In a nuclear war (God forbid it happens), no one will take into account the wishes of the enemy.
          Between us commoners. Doesn't it occur to you that with your original provocative post you are slightly bringing this very war closer? Have you asked your loved ones if they want it in their “first world” country, their home?
          1. -2
            20 January 2024 22: 18
            Let's get to YOU. There is no point in teaching you to read and write. Your play on words and pushing for a comment that is beneficial to you will not work. You can continue to suck it out of your finger, it’s not for everyone. If you do not understand, then I will explain that a direct nuclear strike by the United States, Great Britain or France on the territory of the Russian Federation, as well as by the Russian Federation, in the coming years is zero. There is a possibility of the transfer of nuclear weapons to Ukraine, with the aim of a subsequent nuclear strike on the Russian Federation. By whom??? This is much more dangerous, because... initiative with a nuclear club is not controllable and not predictable. What to do? Draw your own conclusions.
            1. DO
              +1
              20 January 2024 23: 27
              Quote: vlad127490
              Let's get to YOU

              Usually I always communicate with all strangers in the same way. However, you didn’t dare respond to your original post, don’t blame me.

              Quote: vlad127490
              a direct nuclear strike by the United States, Great Britain or France on the territory of the Russian Federation, as well as by the Russian Federation in the coming years, is zero. There is a possibility of the transfer of nuclear weapons to Ukraine, with the aim of a subsequent nuclear strike on the Russian Federation.

              Everyone understands that a nuclear strike on Russia is possible only with the permission of the United States, on the initiative of the United States and with NATO weapons (NATO central command is located on US territory). And what difference does it make where NATO nuclear missiles will be launched from - from a ship, an airplane, or from launchers in Ukraine? All the same, in addition to the nuclear destruction of carriers, at least a symmetrical nuclear response from Russia will be on the territory of the author of the attack - the United States. Without any jurisprudence, for which in this situation there will be neither time, nor desire, nor sense. And if not even bunker officials, but ordinary Americans like you, do not understand such simple things, then we can only sympathize with you and your families in America. Naturally, just like the Russian victims of the hypothetical American nuclear madness.
              I see no point in continuing.
              Stay healthy.
      2. +1
        20 January 2024 18: 53
        taking into account the density of population and infrastructure in the USA and Great Britain. And comparing them with similar indicators in Russia. It is clearly seen that the LOSSES of NATO countries will be DIFFERENTLY GREATER than the losses of the Russian Federation. And it is not for nothing that the expression “nuclear weapons” never appears in the statements of the leaders of these countries. Because they understand perfectly well. what the use of these same nuclear weapons means for their countries.
        1. -2
          21 January 2024 00: 21
          No. In Russia, 80% of the population lives on 20% of the territory. Our losses will be heavier than those of the United States. Everything has been calculated a long time ago.
    2. 0
      23 January 2024 17: 10
      It’s interesting, Simple Russian, what will you say and what will you do if tomorrow you get rich and become a millionaire.
      That's interesting?
      I’m sure you’ll run to buy real estate, cars, a yacht, dachas and real estate somewhere by the sea abroad, you’ll start traveling. After all, there’s service there, isn’t it? What about your children? Well, okay, they can finish school, an elite one, in Russia, but then where will they study? In addition, I am sure that you will not invest the money in Russian banks, but a significant part, just in case, and who knows what, you will also place it somewhere outside the country, where you think is calmer. Right?
      Or use everything for the benefit of Russia’s defense, invest in its assets. But this is unlikely. Based on what you have written, you do not trust the leadership of Russia and you will not keep everything that you have acquired through hard work in Russia. And in the West, either you are for them and against Russia or for Russia, but then you will lose everything that is there. Because? What will you choose?
      1. DO
        0
        24 January 2024 00: 49
        Quote: svoroponov
        It’s interesting, Simple Russian, what will you say and what will you do if tomorrow you get rich and become a millionaire.
        That's interesting?
        I’m sure you’ll run to buy real estate, cars, a yacht, dachas and real estate somewhere by the sea abroad, you’ll start traveling. After all, there’s service there, isn’t it? What about your children? Well, okay, they can finish school, an elite one, in Russia, but then where will they study? In addition, I am sure that you will not invest the money in Russian banks, but a significant part, just in case, and who knows what, you will also place it somewhere outside the country, where you think is calmer. Right?
        Or use everything for the benefit of Russia’s defense, invest in its assets. But this is unlikely. Based on what you have written, you do not trust the leadership of Russia and you will not keep everything that you have acquired through hard work in Russia. And in the West, either you are for them and against Russia or for Russia, but then you will lose everything that is there. Because? What will you choose?

        If you consider commentator vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) as “A simple Russian”, then it seems that he is not writing from Russia at all, but in fact from the USA. These people, born and educated in the USSR or Russia, now live in America. Russian is their native language, and some of them pretend to be Russians in the comments. I think so about vlad127490 because not a single normal resident of Russia would so cynically call for NATO nuclear missiles on his own head. But it is unlikely that this vlad127490 writes for American money, because you are right in your other post on this page, not a single American curator will give the task of openly provoking nuclear escalation. Apparently, the discussed post by vlad127490 is a product of his own brain. They say, former compatriots, what a great fellow I am - I have settled well here, and I wish you vigorous missiles from Ukraine.
        Yes, and in essence your quoted post. Although I am not a businessman, I don’t think that all Russian millionaire businessmen are traitors. This may sound cynical, but if a Russian millionaire has his entire business in Russia, he has something to protect.
  11. 0
    20 January 2024 13: 37
    Lord, this guy is incorrigible. Very, very bad, .... Now the USA and NATO are at war with the USSR. All countries will do as the United States says. Unipolar world! Putin has spoken about this a hundred times! If it flies from Estonia, it means it’s a US attack! They will attack from anywhere from other countries, and our media will write “this is a Ukrainian drone,” but this is “very, very bad.”
    Bro, the Second Patriotic War is underway for the liberation of the Fatherland from the US occupation, which we were subjected to 30 years ago! And, another surprise, if you didn’t know. At this stage, we have REMOVED flight missions and missiles are not aimed at US cities. Since 1994, through the efforts of Yeltsin. That's why these creatures do what they want! And the war is going on to destroy Russia. It will all end with the restoration of the borders of the Soviet Union under Putin.
    Learn history already, you little cat!
    1. DO
      +2
      20 January 2024 15: 16
      Quote: Yarik83
      At this stage, we have REMOVED flight missions and missiles are not aimed at US cities. Since 1994, through the efforts of Yeltsin.

      In January 1994, the late Yeltsin and Clinton signed nothing more than a DECLARATION on the renunciation of the Russian Federation and the United States from targeting strategic nuclear missiles at each other.
      However, from those distant years to the present day, the main TREATIES with the participation of Russia and the United States in the field of nuclear weapons - ABM, CFE, INF Treaty, Don, START-3 - have been terminated or suspended.
      And what the real flight missions are now in Russian and American nuclear missiles is known reliably only to a very limited circle of people - those who gave the corresponding closed orders, and those who introduced these flight missions.
    2. 0
      23 January 2024 17: 14
      In general, increased combat readiness assumes that missions have been entered into the heads of strategic missiles. This combat readiness was declared by the Commander-in-Chief and as of today no one has canceled it. So there is no point in throwing water against Putin. The man really knows what he's doing.
  12. 0
    20 January 2024 15: 33
    Having read the latest comments, as I understand it, it’s zugzwang for Russia.
    1. Russia strikes Ukraine first (no need..." J. Biden. about a year and a half ago). In turn, so that the geography of strikes does not expand, the United States strikes Russia. Or? - since they were the first to strike Ukraine, That means they can hit us (USA) too... that means we (USA) are hitting too.
    (,, do you want to test the strength of the Americans’ balls? Well, well..." Mr. Z in his article, also a year and a half ago).
    2. Ukraine attacks Russia. What is the USA doing? - the same as in case 1. after all, in the USA they know that Russia knows where the mass entertainer is sitting, and they can hit them...
    3. Russia is being attacked by one of the NATO countries (even for the sake of this they can be expelled from NATO. For a while...). what is the US doing? - the same as in the 2nd case.
    4. The same thing will happen if Russia hits, for example, England.

    hence the conclusion: zugzwang.
    1. DO
      0
      20 January 2024 17: 27
      Having read the latest comments, as I understand it, it’s zugzwang for Russia

      You didn't understand what you read. Because for the USA it is exactly the same “zugzwang”.
      1. +1
        20 January 2024 18: 21
        Yes, not only what you read... your own analytics too.
        The United States is better able to take “weakly.”
        we see the results of the Russian “take it weakly” (ultimatum dated 15.12.21/XNUMX/XNUMX) today...
        1. DO
          0
          20 January 2024 20: 37
          Quote: Vasya_33
          The USA is better able to take "weakly"

          I don't agree. The United States is purposefully escalating, for some reason turning a blind eye to the fact that a certain stage of its development cannot do without tactical nuclear weapons.

          Quote: Vasya_33
          we see today the results of the Russian “take it weakly” (ultimatum dated 15.12.21/XNUMX/XNUMX)

          The Russian side's proposals for a peaceful resolution of the contradictions were not accepted. And if problems between states are ignored by one of the parties and are not resolved peacefully, there is no other way left except military.
    2. +1
      23 January 2024 17: 28
      This is zugzwang in your head... The management is fully aware of what they are doing.
      And the Americans, through the war between Ukraine and Russia, simply hoped to reduce or weaken our potential so much that we would not interfere with them while their economy and armed forces were not in good condition. They admit it themselves. They do not envisage a nuclear war. Then they will simply be finished, based on the availability of appropriate weapons to them and us. But the size of our country suggests that we will retain greater human potential and economy than they do. And they will finally disappear from the scene. They will simply never rise again and there will be other centers of power in the world.
      They lost this many times, both in command post exercises and by entering data into computers. There was almost always a loss.
      In addition, after the war, even a number of their current allies will trample on them, for the humiliation and fear that they experienced while in the service of the United States. Their bases, without a metropolis, are also over. So they understand everything and everything will be done to prevent a nuclear war from happening.
  13. +1
    20 January 2024 17: 13
    to fight NATO you need to have titanium Faberge
    1. The comment was deleted.
  14. +2
    20 January 2024 17: 50
    The United States has long turned into a mustachioed cockroach from Chukovsky’s fairy tale, even Argentina can kick the dead English left....Ukraine, for example, according to the Budapest Memorandum is also under the cover of the United States, that is, the United States has been guaranteeing the security of Ukraine for a long time, so what? Of course, no United States is going to expose itself to thousands of Russian nuclear and thermonuclear missiles for the sake of some kind of Ukraine. The NATO bloc was naturally not created for the mythical security of Europe, because for this it was enough to sign agreements on the withdrawal of all nuclear missiles from Europe and from the European part of the USSR, . For example, Sweden (and Finland until a certain point) did not join the NATO bloc, but were not attacked by the USSR or Russia, Mongolia did not join the NATO bloc but was not attacked by the USSR, Russia and the PRC. It is obvious that the nNATO bloc was created EXCLUSIVELY for the possibility of the United States placing its nuclear missiles and troops behind the backs of European women and children in order to hit the most populated part of the USSR; repeated proposals of the USSR and the Russian Federation to demilitarize densely populated Europe, including Russia to the Urals, were always ignored by the United States. For Russia has an advantageous position when it is difficult to strike the European part of the Russian Federation, and in sparsely populated Siberia where aircraft are rare and therefore airspace control is simple, on the contrary, it is convenient to deploy nuclear FORCES to strike the USA.... The USA did not worry at all about the safety of Europeans even when creating NATO bloc and did not even take on any clear obligations during its creation. Any guarantees of the security of a NATO member exist only in the inflamed minds of the Baltic limited forces, and such guarantees were never written on paper, and even if they were, everyone knows that paper will endure everything.. A historical example when England and the USA betrayed all allies in Europe, Austria Czechoslovakia, Poland (with which they had an agreement much more specific than NATO and England was the guarantor of Poland’s security), but in the period 1939-1942 none of the “guarantors” stood up for any European country.
    Now the situation has generally become comical, the United States was unable to defeat Afghanistan, is suffering an obvious defeat in Ukraine, and is clearly unable to cope even with the Houthis. Venezuela and other countries have been spitting on the United States for a long time. What can we say about the Russian Federation and China, with their thousands of nuclear warheads, much higher-quality conventional weapons, military industry, and the Russian Federation has also acquired a combat-ready, experienced army... The USA and England will not get involved with Russia for the sake of some kind of Latvia, Estonia or Lithuania, as they were afraid to stand up for the much more important Ukraine, especially since these non-states are not only of no use to anyone, but are also small, unprofitable, and have schizophrenic power, according to the treaties of Russia NATO, these states are considered countries of the Warsaw Pact, and to join NATO had no rights. Legally, these republics of the USSR are insignificant because their independence (like all republics of the former USSR) is connected with the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), therefore any republic that behaves unfriendly to Russia is illegitimate, like Ukraine (in general, in history and politics, all unfriendly actions have always been a reason to war). Russia has every right, after Estonia’s military attack on the Russian Federation (launch of an aircraft-type combat drone in St. Petersburg), as well as after the genocide of Russians in Estonia, violation of their civil rights, to send troops into Estonia to establish a constitutional order for the protection of human rights, in accordance with the Declaration of Human Rights 1947. After the execution by decision of the tribunal of the entire so-called fascist ruling elite of Estonia, a referendum will be held in which the entire population of Estonia will vote for joining the Russian Federation, or for a close military-economic and political union with the Russian Federation, joining the union of Russia and Belarus. If an aircraft-type drone flies in Pskov, then a similar fate awaits Latvia.... I think there is no need to touch Finland, emotionally Europeans consider it old Europe and may begin to be verbally indignant, we only need the Soviet Baltic states, because ours has always been there and everyone knows it .
    1. 0
      21 January 2024 00: 25
      Why are we sad about verbal indignation about Finland? The Russian Empire is back and that's it!! And you can get more benefits from the Finns than from the poor Balts.
  15. +1
    20 January 2024 18: 29
    This is all casuistry and unnecessary words. It’s high time to understand that NATO will be twisted in a way that suits them!
  16. 0
    20 January 2024 18: 55
    Is it possible for Russia to have a war with individual countries that are members of the NATO bloc?

    - the question was asked to the wrong address! Ask this question to the most “peace-loving” NATO bloc and then (maybe) you will get an answer.
  17. +2
    20 January 2024 21: 16
    The version of launching from ukropostan can be ruled out, the Finns will not take risks either...
    the Ukrainian military launched from the territory of Estonia - that’s the answer, and dill is not lying that the military launched them, and the threat to St. Petersburg is more than real. What should the answer be?
    The president's answer should be very simple - the Russian Federation will declare war on any state in Europe from whose territory a missile or drone is fired. At the same time, we will not PROVE anything to anyone. And most importantly. We can wage war with any weapon, including nuclear weapons.
    I guarantee that if we declare war on any NATO country in Europe except perhaps Great Britain... the United States will not move to protect anyone. And NOBODY will dare to defend the Tribaltic sprats. The guarantee is not 100, but 146%. It is enough to say a phrase about nuclear weapons and their use.
    We have already seen that NATO did not come to war for the territory it needed. Moreover, they need this dill outskirts much more than spratia, which contains nothing valuable at all.
    It’s not for nothing that Lyusya is afraid that Putin will eventually realize that Europe is ready to surrender because it can no longer do anything. And the United States simply will not risk standing up for Europe, because this is the end of the world. And these gentlemen from Wall Street still want to live.
    1. 0
      20 January 2024 23: 11
      I agree, Estonia’s days are now numbered as soon as ours get to Uzhgorod (this is no more than two years), the results of the investigation will be made public and Estonia or Lavtia, depending on the result, will be given an official ultimtum to hand over the leaders of these fascist limitrophes for trial within 24 hours, if not then we will come ourselves and arrest you and will not leave, and the NATO bases there will be cut off from the light of water and heat. and surrounded by our troops, we will release them on foot without weapons and hand over the NATO military in handcuffs to Poland, to the approving cries of the whole world “Jaankey go home” ..... so the exit to Kaliningrad will happen without any fuss
    2. +3
      21 January 2024 00: 26
      It would be nice to start by announcing it to Ukraine. They don’t allow anything from its territory.
  18. 0
    21 January 2024 01: 37
    In all this talk, they forgot about one thing - the population. The population of NATO countries is not ready to come under Russian banners. These are both Finns and sprats, even if together they do not reach 10 million. If we discard the elite and the outcasts, then people simply don’t need any war, but they will grumble and go into the woods, perhaps if under the new government something is “wrested” from them, which, as a rule, happens. But the elite and the outcast need measures of military-police correction. Here is an example four times larger - the outskirts, its population regularly sends those repulsed to slaughter to the front line, and their fate never reaches them.
    And the elite... Although the country is not exactly NATO, it is a proxy. If Russia does not want to be eaten, we must prepare. To the worst case scenario as well. Americans will not fit in, only proxies.
    1. +1
      21 January 2024 16: 34
      In general, you are right. In my understanding, the countries of the USA, Great Britain, and France will not organize a direct nuclear war with the Russian Federation; pragmatists sit at the top there. For them, Ukraine and the countries formed on the territories of the former Union Republics of the USSR are springboards for working out political decisions and military actions that are close to real ones. From these territories, any blow can be delivered to the Russian Federation. Why is Ukraine dangerous, in this case, for the Russian Federation? There are nuclear countries in the world: India, Pakistan, Israel, which secretly, on the instructions of, for example, the United States, will transfer a nuclear charge to Ukraine, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine will launch a nuclear strike on the Russian Federation. What will happen next? In response, the Russian Federation will launch a nuclear strike on Ukraine or not, but in any case, the Russian Federation will suffer losses, incl. political. Everyone wins except the Russian Federation and Ukraine. There is only one way out, all of Ukraine, within the borders of 1975, it is necessary to return the composition of Russia in the form of regions. The state of Ukraine should no longer exist. If Ukraine disappears, all newly formed countries will immediately lose their ambition.
      1. 0
        21 January 2024 22: 39
        Nuclear weapons CAN be transferred to Ukraine in the event of an impossible defeat to Russia. “So don’t let anyone get you!” And then, most likely, “dirty” ones. And more than a dozen.
  19. +1
    22 January 2024 13: 49
    It is the matter of time. The absence of red lines is encouraging.