Does Russia need expensive high-speed rail lines?

August 19 2023 50

One of the most interesting News in the Russian economics - This is a statement by President Putin about the readiness to implement the high-speed railway project (HSR), which had previously been repeatedly postponed for various reasons. What is it, a pre-election hype or a real change in attitude towards the development of one's own country?

Just a business?

Speaking at the opening ceremony for passenger traffic on the third Moscow Central Diameter (MCD-3), Vladimir Putin said that the moment had come to start building the high-speed line:

If you “drag” from Moscow to Adler, it will be 10 hours in total on the way. It's a completely different story for those who go on holiday to the south. Of course, it will be necessary to think about how to connect both Luhansk and Donetsk here. And, you know, it seems to me that this issue should be worked out with the government of Belarus, I will have a talk with the president. The Minsk direction would be in great demand both by our citizens and the citizens of Belarus, especially since we are developing the construction of the Union State at a good pace.

The first high-speed rail line should appear between Moscow and St. Petersburg, but after it will be expanded:

We have been discussing the project of a high-speed railway between Moscow and St. Petersburg for a long time ... It seems to me that now we have really come to the possibility of its implementation ... We need to move to Nizhny, we need to move to Voronezh, from Nizhny to Kazan, from Kazan to the Ural region .

If you look at the comments on this information message, it becomes clear that both the expert community and ordinary Russians are divided in their attitude towards it. The main counter-argument lies in the exceptional high cost, technological complexity and practical unprofitability of such an infrastructure project, which is called untimely against the background of the NWO. But is it really so?

The idea to build a high-speed line in our country with its gigantic distances arose a very long time ago. VSM is a specialized electrified double-track line for the movement of trains at a speed of 200 to 400 kilometers per hour. There are none in modern Russia, and the high-speed Sapsan, moving between Moscow and St. Petersburg, use ordinary railroad tracks and do not reveal their full potential.

It all started with the project of a high-speed highway between our two capitals in 2004, which was supposed to appear by 2017, but was never built. Then a high-speed rail project arose between Moscow and Kazan with the prospect of extending it to Yekaterinburg and even to Beijing, but it also remained on paper. A quite realistic project of a high-speed highway between Yekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk with a length of only 218 km, designed to connect the main industrial centers of the Urals into a single agglomeration, has been worked out, but it has also been frozen.

The reason for the refusal of construction is the high cost and complexity of high-speed lines, as well as the impossibility of their economic recoupment. In particular, the highway from Moscow to Kazan was estimated at 1,7 trillion rubles. Instead, Finance Minister Siluanov proposed spending budget funds on regional airports, seaports and the Northern Sea Route. And now suddenly, against the backdrop of Western sanctions and economic isolation, President Putin, for some reason, decided to return to this topic again. Why?

Connectivity

It seems that, speaking of high-speed railways, one should treat them not as a business, but as a social responsibility and the obligation of the state to develop infrastructure. China is a prime example of how this works.

Beijing has invested heavily in developing its rail network and is a recognized leader in the high-speed lines that have stitched together its vast territory. In China, two types of trains move along the HSR: with the letters G (“gaote”), reaching speeds of up to 310 kilometers per hour, and trains with the letters D (“dongche”), capable of accelerating up to 250 kilometers per hour. High-speed lines account for about 20% of the total passenger traffic in the country.

High-speed lines are being built in parallel with the already existing conventional rail network, allowing them to remove unnecessary load from them, freeing up capacity for freight trains. The 1318-kilometer journey from Beijing to Shanghai takes just 1 hours and 4 minutes on the G-48 train. Thanks to this, China's huge population has become as mobile as possible, having received opportunities to study and work in other cities, and domestic tourism is actively developing. It will be very appropriate to quote one Chinese scientist:

More than high-speed roads, only hieroglyphs have done for the unity of our country.

Yes, HSR as a business is unprofitable and subsidized by the state, but they contribute to the socio-economic development of the country as a whole. It is from this point of view that it is worth considering the question of the expediency of building such highways in Russia.

Now we are under Western sanctions and we cannot count on anyone but ourselves. Therefore, it makes sense to engage in the comprehensive development of our own country, investing in the transport infrastructure, which we ourselves will subsequently use. The integration of Russia with Belarus within the framework of the Union State and the “new” regions through a single HSR network will be of great geopolitical and economic importance.

Information

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DO

+8

19 August 2023 13: 59

Tanks, howitzers, shells, fuel at a speed of 200-400 km / h will not be transported by rail. Yes, and civilian cargo too.
And who needs to quickly, quickly from Moscow to Adler or Vladivostok, they will buy a plane ticket.
Against the background of the NWO, today, God forbid, there would be enough money to maintain the existing infrastructure of Russian Railways, and to build the necessary conventional new tracks.
1. Avarron
  
  0
  
  19 August 2023 17: 34
  
  Don't talk nonsense. Of course, HSR is a passenger line. With Russian distances, the country needs high-speed lines like air.
  Have you seen airfare prices? And how much cargo can you take with you? In addition, the plane will not provide mass transportation, it's just a bus with wings. Whereas a train carries hundreds of passengers in one flight.
  While there were fat 2000s, it was necessary to build high-speed lines across the country instead of taking billions of greenery offshore and buying yachts worth their weight in gold. Well, at least right now they remembered about them, God forbid, they will build it.
  1. DO
    
    +5
    
    19 August 2023 19: 53
    
    Have you seen airfare prices? And how much cargo can you take with you?
    
    Google ticket prices Moscow - St. Petersburg.
    Air ticket St. Petersburg - Moscow 2400 ... 5200 rubles. https://avia.tutu.ru/f/Sankt-peterburg/Moskva/
    Ticket for a seat in the high-speed train Sapsan St. Petersburg - Moscow from 4415 rubles. (departure 5.30 am) to 32336 rubles. (departure 13.00). https://m.tutu.ru/poezda/sapsan/rasp_d.php?nnst1=2004000&nnst2=2000000&date=20.08.2023
    The weight and volume of luggage on the plane and on the Sapsan is the same - what you bring in your hands.
  2. igor.igorev
    
    0
    
    20 August 2023 07: 57
    
    So why didn’t you build, but withdraw money to offshore?
reefroof

+2

19 August 2023 14: 08

once the sanctions, it remains to develop its economy, not to stop the production that worked for export. say, we made pipes for gas workers, and now we are making pipes of a smaller diameter for a communal apartment
imjarek

+12

19 August 2023 14: 10

Wouldn't it be better to restore elementary order in the existing infrastructure of Russian Railways.
The bulk of the population will not be able to use the services of "high-speed" trains due to an elementary lack of money. Moreover, Russia has not yet won a victory in the NWO. In other words:

Now it’s not up to fat - I would live
1. Avarron
  
  0
  
  19 August 2023 17: 37
  
  No, not better. Actually, I don’t see any disorder in Russian Railways, everything seems to be set up and working as it should.
  It is necessary to increase the speed of movement of people, the Chinese did the right thing, that they began to develop high-speed lines. We also need this yesterday with our distances.
  1. V. Salama
    
    +3
    
    19 August 2023 19: 53
    
    Quote: Avarron
    I don’t see any disorder in Russian Railways
    
    We still lacked disorder at strategic facilities. Personally, I'm more interested in trends than current states. I tried, at one time, to figure out who the owner of Russian Railways was and on what grounds. It didn't work out, however.
  2. Accidentally
    
    0
    
    20 August 2023 14: 45
    
    They worked at the railway ......... no, go the other way
2. igor.igorev
  
  -2
  
  20 August 2023 07: 59
  
  It is necessary to work, and not to jump on the squares, a fighter with power. Then the money will appear for travel.
Kuramori Reika

-1

19 August 2023 15: 18

Must there be 2 passenger lines? For example, one would be enough to Astrakhan, and at the same time one more for freight traffic to connect Russia with the Gulf of Oman.
Paul3390

+8

19 August 2023 15: 51

With our distances - it would be better if they returned normal civil aviation, as it was under the USSR ...
1. tolik.tsypuschckin
  
  +5
  
  19 August 2023 16: 45
  
  I completely agree with you. There were ten times more local airfields under the USSR, and planes too.
2. igor.igorev
  
  -3
  
  20 August 2023 07: 59
  
  So take and return the aircraft, everything is in your hands.
Alexander Ra

+2

19 August 2023 17: 07

The goal of reindustrialization, “optimization”, excessive attention to tourism (non-productive direction) is not set, pensioners are punished with non-indexation for continuing their work, there are many “projects” for digging money. Who benefits from the slowdown in Russia's development?
1. Avarron
  
  +3
  
  19 August 2023 17: 38
  
  Those who benefit from the destruction of the Slavic ethnic group.
Vladimir Tuzakov

+6

19 August 2023 19: 18

The construction of expensive infrastructures must first have economic and technical justifications. Only for the fact that the Japanese or the PRC have it is not an argument at all, everything is different there, and passenger flows, and distances, and the landscape, which, in combination, makes the HSR justified. For our long distances, as many commentators correctly noted, developed local aviation is more important. Cargo flows will not fit into expensive, albeit high-speed, deliveries. Conclusions: For sections with a large passenger flow, it is possible to create high-speed lines, for large branched tracks and distances, it is no longer possible. Everything depends on technical and economic justifications, and there is no need to pay huge sums for the sake of ambitions..
Ilya 22

+3

19 August 2023 20: 54

Putin's words do not yet mean that construction will begin tomorrow. First you need to prepare a lot of technical documentation. And you have to start. We live in the XNUMXst century. Riding in a cart with a horse is even cheaper if you think like that. And the problem of the lack of an alternative to aircraft was shown by the NWO when the entire south was closed for flights. Even during the Second World War, they thought about the future. If you block the withdrawal of capital from the country, then there will be enough money for both NWO and HSR
1. igor.igorev
  
  -1
  
  20 August 2023 08: 00
  
  High-speed lines from St. Petersburg to Moscow have already begun.
Stogov

+4

19 August 2023 21: 14

In no country in the world, purely passenger lines of railways have ever been self-sustaining and exist either at the expense of subsidies, for example, at the expense of freight traffic, or go bankrupt after a certain period of time. Even more, this statement applies to VSM. The presence or absence in any country of a developed network of transport railway communications, both newly built and already existing, is an excellent indicator of both the state of the economy of any country and the direction vector of this economy, or an indicator of the actual presence and maturity of the statehood itself as such. The Roman Empire would never have become a unified empire if it had not been "sewn together" by its network of road communications. The Russian Empire was able at a certain stage of its development to quickly create a network of intra-imperial railways, and also managed to quickly build the Trans-Siberian. The fact that the projects of the High-Latitude Railway and the Sakhalin Railway Tunnel were abruptly suspended in 1953, shortly before the finish line, was a kind of indicator. Of course, HSR lines should be built as “dedicated railway passenger lines”, mainly where there are already existing passenger and freight lines of the railways. Not without reason, following the construction of widely resonant high-speed lines, China launched a lesser-known program to develop a network of railway lines to transport vast flows of heavy national economic goods; the network of existing roads is completely insufficient for this. But these railways are designed for other operating conditions.
Pembo

+4

19 August 2023 22: 45

One of the most interesting news in the field of the Russian economy is President Putin's statement about the readiness to implement the high-speed railway project (HSR), which had previously been repeatedly postponed for various reasons. What is it, a pre-election hype or a real change in attitude towards the development of one's own country?

Look at/in the face of Putin. A dull look, an upturned face. I was annoyed by Putin's energetic manner of pretending that nothing is happening: everything is fine, everything is according to plan, according to the HPP. This is not the case here, here a person even wants to sympathize. And at the same time to ourselves, because so far our destinies are connected. After the ruble at 100 dollars, people need to say something comforting, but there is nothing to say. So we have to voice plans for the construction of high-speed highways. Petersburg, Kazan, Adler... Minsk! I was especially touched by the proposal to conduct the Moscow-Adler high-speed line through Lugansk and Donetsk. Donetsk is still being shelled. The truth also flies to Moscow. So you don't have to worry that it's out of time. As long as it goes ... CBO, no one will do anything, as soon as the CBO ends, so let's take on these grandiose plans, maybe. And it is possible to make projects, a feasibility study, even now. And no one will say that the work is not going. Well, the questions, of course, are not even about the realism of these projects, but about what they will give to an ordinary person who rides on the Moscow-Adler reserved seat, how affordable it will be for him and, if possible, the HSR to take over the Moscow-South passenger traffic (Anapa, Gelendzhik, Sochi, Adler). If high-speed lines are subsidized by the state, then it will turn out that the passengers of the reserved seat, who, due to poverty, and also due to the impossibility of the high-speed line to accept the entire passenger flow, as they traveled on the reserved seat, will continue to travel, will subsidize the passengers of the high-speed line. And they have these wonderful plans, nothing but understandable irritation will not cause.
1. Nelton
  
  -2
  
  21 August 2023 10: 42
  
  Quote from Pembo
  While it's going ... CBO, no one will do anything
  
  What, you’re giving a straight tooth that the M-12 will not be launched either in 2023 (as they promise at the moment) or in 2024?
  I’m not talking about Moscow projects - the BCL and the 3rd MCD have already been launched in 2023.
  1. Pembo
    
    +2
    
    21 August 2023 22: 05
    
    Nelton, why are you pulling out, not even a phrase from the context, but words from a phrase. And the phrase goes like this:
    
    So you don't have to worry that it's out of time. As long as it goes ... CBO, no one will do anything, as soon as the CBO ends, so let's take on these grandiose plans, maybe.
    
    Those. words: no one will do anything, - refers to the grandiose plans for the construction of high-speed highways - until no one builds NVO. Why are you trying to ascribe to me the stupidest assertion that no one in the country will do anything while the NWO? In Mariupol, the Drama Theater has already been restored, although the NWO is underway and residential buildings are being restored, the end of the NWO is not expected.
    1. Nelton
      
      0
      
      21 August 2023 22: 34
      
      Quote from Pembo
      refers to the grandiose plans for the construction of high-speed highways
      
      I beg your pardon, I misunderstood you.
      I rather agree about the VSM.
      This is generally a very specific transport, tickets are often more expensive than a plane.
      Speaking of aircraft...
      if the NWO is delayed, and at the same time the development of MS-21 and SSJ is delayed, then it is possible that people will be forced to transfer to trains, and accordingly there will be a demand for high-speed lines.
Kuramori Reika

0

19 August 2023 23: 56

In high-speed trains, the worst thing is the human factor. Russia is full of degenerates and cattle that will shove through the railway line to the prohibiting signal of the semaphore. It only takes one of these with smoky and dope-burned brains to blow the train. And here the distance is 1500 km. In all cities of Russia, it is the locals who are the first to destroy all new city buildings and bus stops with their own hands. And then he will whine in front of the phone’s camera that he expected to slip through, but did not have time, so he asks for forgiveness for 600 corpses torn to pieces. Is not it?
prior

+3

20 August 2023 07: 57

Petka comes to Vasily Ivanovich and sees Vasily Ivanovich sitting naked and wearing a Versace tie....
- Vasily Ivanovich, why are you naked?
- Petka, because there is no one.
- And why did you put on an expensive tie?
- What if someone comes...

So it is in the case of high-speed roads, in the country there are a lot of problems that require huge money, but without high-speed roads in any way.
How to put out forest fires? Who will clean the river beds so that they do not flood? Is everyone already provided with housing? There is no normal road even from Moscow to the Crimean bridge.
But Putin urgently needs the HSR. Is there nothing to get or fly to St. Petersburg today?!
1. vik669
  
  0
  
  20 August 2023 21: 15
  
  On the tundra, on the railroad, Where the courier "Moscow - Peter" rushes and ... !!!
Shuev

+3

20 August 2023 10: 05
Another election campaign

construction is about to begin, and suddenly the direction of high-speed rail construction changes

blah blah blah
Shuev

0

20 August 2023 11: 23

I suggest changing the title:
"Through the Snow": Does Russia Need an Expensive "Sealed Wagon"?
vlad127490

+3

20 August 2023 19: 33

If the question of building a high-speed rail line had been raised in the USSR, then I would have said yes without hesitation. But we live in a capitalist Russian Federation, where the main thing is cutting money, providing the oligarchs with budgetary funds and golden toilets. In the Russian Federation, the industry has collapsed, for example, the production of bearings has fallen 21 times compared to the RSFSR in 1990. The radio-electronic industry is zero. The Russian Federation cannot even make a TV without Chinese components. Has anyone seen a Russian smartphone? Me not. Toll roads, space ticket prices. And then there are trillions of rubles for the High-Speed Railroad. Who assessed the priority on what today it is necessary to spend budget money??? There is no need to write about investors of budget money, hucksters here. Maybe it is necessary to build conventional railways for the development of the country's economy ???
1. Nelton
  
  -1
  
  20 August 2023 19: 55
  
  Quote: vlad127490
  Industry collapsed in Russia
  
  sure sure.
  Let's take, for example, tractor and combine construction - equipment in agriculture (mainly Russian-made) really comes in 10 times less than in the days of the RSFSR.
  And grain harvests are much higher.
  (and to them there are already tens of millions of oilseeds)
  Here is the difference in terms of the shaft for the bearings.
  Cars (both freight and especially passenger) in the Russian Federation are produced 2 times more than in the RSFSR.
  Trams finally began to do decent. (in the RSFSR they did, but they were ashamed to let them out on the streets of Moscow, they ordered in Czechoslovakia).
  
  Maybe you need to build conventional railways for the development of the country's economy
  
  Well, by the way, while the HSR network is only a project, and the development of the Trans-Siberian Railway, the BAM is going well for itself, ensuring the growth of cargo traffic.
  1. vlad127490
    
    0
    
    21 August 2023 00: 07
    
    Earlier I wrote to you that if you want to have a real picture of where the Russian Federation is today, compare it with Great Britain, Japan, Germany, it’s better not to remember about the USA. Forecasting is not a thankful task, but sometimes it is worth considering. If the USSR existed today. What place in the world would he occupy. Answer. First. But where is the Russian Federation?
  2. vlad127490
    
    0
    
    21 August 2023 00: 18
    
    Well, by the way, while the HSR network is just a project, and the development of the Trans-Siberian Railway, BAM is going well for itself, ensuring the growth of freight traffic
    
    You need to take a live ride along the Trans-Siberian Railway and BAM, see how they live in the Far East and why they are fleeing from there, look at the ruins. Ask about a free DV hectare. There are hills and taiga, there is no infrastructure, there are no roads, everything is far from Moscow in size.
    1. Nelton
      
      -1
      
      21 August 2023 10: 00
      
      Quote: vlad127490
      If the USSR existed today. What place in the world would he occupy. Answer. First.
      
      Oh, these storytellers ...
      no prerequisites for this.
      
      USSR GNP 1980 = 619 billion rubles ~ 344 billion $, 7th place,
      below Italy (479 billion dollars), 1st place at the USA 2857, USA:USSR 8.3:1
      
      USSR GNP 1985 = 777 billion rubles ~ 432 billion $, 7th place,
      below Italy (454 billion dollars), 1st place at the USA 4339, USA:USSR 10.0:1
      
      USSR GNP 1990 = 1000 billion rubles ~ 556 billion $, 9th place,
      Below Canada (596) and Iran (581)
      for the same Italy (1162 billion $), 1st place for the USA 5963, USA:USSR 10.7:1
      
      It was in 1990 that a large group of economists made comparisons of prices for a large group of goods in order to find out which rate is more or less real.
      Prices are essno state, unchanged since 1980. (according to which production was counted in GNP). That's when they got 1.8r instead of 60 kopecks.
      Similar work was done under Stalin, they received 14 rubles, but he imposed a resolution "the red price is 4 rubles." and even under Brezhnev-Kosygin, no one in the Politburo was indignant that Soviet cars were exported at a price that gave 2r / $, despite the fact that in the USSR there was a wild shortage of them.
      All this gives grounds to use the rate of 1.8 r / $ for the late USSR, as acceptable-adequate.
      retired partographers are not forbidden to believe that the USSR was at least the 2nd economy of the world, i.e. more than Japan, which for 1990 gives a rate of 31 kopecks per $.
      
      Russian GDP, 2022, $2215 billion, 8th place.
      Above Canada (2140) and Italy (2012).
      1. vlad127490
        
        0
        
        21 August 2023 17: 18
        
        Alas, fairy tales, this is now.
        Thank you for your attention and your time. For me, the best time is life in the USSR. I have never been a member of any party in my life. Octobrist, pioneer, member of the Komsomol is not considered. Born in 1949. Higher education, techie, physics. I went abroad for work for the first time in 1982, then once a year or a year and a half. I can compare how they lived over the hill and in the USSR, and then in the Russian Federation live. Then $1=0,62kop.
        In the USSR there was socialism in the USA capitalism. Compare two different policies. systems can be, for example, through a set for borscht or through gold, there is a lot of information on the Internet on this subject.
        It is impossible to write about the reality of life, they will "sit". There is nothing to brag about, you previously wrote about crops, but forgot to write about seeds. There are many topics - airplanes, cars, ships and ships, smartphones, science, space and Luna-25, etc., and also Ukraine.
        
        Nelton
        
        0
        
        21 August 2023 17: 53
        
        Quote: vlad127490
        I went abroad for work for the first time in 1982, then once a year or a year and a half.
        
        By Soviet standards - "life is good."
        didn’t they go to Algeria, to raise the oil industry?
        
        Quote: vlad127490
        forgot to write about the seeds.
        
        the Russian Federation has two periods of development, before Decisive Decisions, and after.
        The use of imported seeds, components, equipment during the period BEFORE - was correct, natural and completely not reproachful.
        It was absolutely normal development, the same as in Japan, China and other more/less successful developing countries.
        And in this development there were airplanes, and cars, and ships, and even space - Spectrum-RG - an excellent example of cooperation, in 2 telescopes they received interesting results, expanding the horizons of human knowledge about the universe.
        
        Based on sound logic, it was in no way possible to assume that our Supreme Commander-in-Chief would reset all this to zero.
        
        Now a whole new period has begun.
        That the country has not yet collapsed in the 2nd year of the most severe sanctions, the ruble is still being converted, large projects are continuing - this is just an economic miracle.
        In theory, the forecasts do not change, we are supposedly in the same technological gap, the collapse of high-tech infrastructure and other famine without imported seeds, only all this horror was moved in the forecasts from "by the end of the year (2022)" to "in 3-4 years".
        Against this background, to demand that the Russian Federation has not yet reached the levels of Great Britain and Germany is somewhat excessive, as it seems to me.
        What will happen next in reality - we will see (if we are alive), but we note, we are discussing here, "is it worth the Russian Federation to take on the HSR now, or better later," and not at all where to buy coupons for swede.
        
        vlad127490
        
        +2
        
        21 August 2023 20: 20
        
        Thank you for the calm answer, but you can't do it without joking. No, I have nothing to do with the oil industry and the minerals on which some have become oligarchs. 30 years engaged in the study of the seas and oceans.
        With respect to the VSM Railway. If I had managed these trillions, then I would have spent this money on the development of the semiconductor industry and machine tool building in the Russian Federation.
        Regarding the forecast for the development of the Russian Federation. The first time I wrote about the forecast, not in my profile, was in 2005, when there was euphoria, there were a lot of dollars, and it seemed to everyone a little more, and we would be in paradise.
        There is the Law of Large Numbers, which helps to look at the future of the Russian Federation.
        One example. "Cadres decide everything." Only 0,1% of the population generate the development of the state, this is the best scenario, the worst is 0,001%. These are Scientists, Professors with Associate Professors, Chief Designers, Developers, Senior Management. There are no engineers, office directors, managers, there are no executors here. 1500 million people live in China, 1350 million in India, 330 million in the USA, 503 million in the European Union ....... in the Russian Federation there are only 146 million people. Working Contractors with higher education should be at least 28%. Count how many people you will develop the state. and you will immediately see the pace. For sustainable independent development, the state must have at least 200 million people.
        
        Nelton
        
        0
        
        21 August 2023 21: 29
        
        Quote: vlad127490
        you can't do it without bullshit. No to the oil industry and minerals
        
        No snickering, just since the same 1982 quite a lot of oil industry specialists really went to Algeria.
        Honest workers. Earned decent checks, though not the highest category.
        
        Quote: vlad127490
        in 2005, when there was euphoria, there were a lot of dollars and it seemed to everyone just a little bit more and we would be in paradise.
        Even then, my analysis showed that the Russian Federation with its system and its comprador power with hucksters and oligarchs will never even reach the average level from Europe
        
        Oil revenues are greatly exaggerated ...
        In one of the comments I made an exact calculation, but from memory - all minerals in the Russian Federation are mined for $ 4000 per person, or so, which is less than the difference in gdp pc between Estonia and Latvia.
        
        vlad127490
        
        +2
        
        21 August 2023 20: 28
        
        In addition to the population, there is also a territory of comfortable living, and so in the Russian Federation only 16% is comfortable for living, most of the territory of the Russian Federation is permafrost, swamps, taiga, mountains, hills, and a cold zone. In Ukraine 84%, in Belarus 85%.
        There are another two dozen parameters according to which the Russian Federation is not the USSR.
        And here we are discussing which oligarch will put money in his pocket from the VSM.
Flight

0

21 August 2023 01: 19

It seems that, speaking of high-speed railways, one should treat them not as a business, but as a social responsibility and the obligation of the state to develop infrastructure. China is a prime example of how this works.

Why should I look at China? I look at the only detour in Khabarovsk, which was made paid, this, you understand, they invested. And they mastered the money, and after that they will drip.
1. vlad127490
  
  +4
  
  22 August 2023 13: 03
  
  In Russia, capitalism in the form of feudalism. In the heads of those in power and money who have only profit and only now, and in their pocket, and the pocket is in the NATO countries.
  Remember, toll roads for the development of Russia is a huge Evil. Toll roads are a brake on the development of transport communications, this is a limitation on the volume of goods transported, this is a social division into rich and poor, this is an increase in the cost of goods in stores, etc.
  Toll roads are a return to the era of feudalism, when each feudal lord took a fare, passage through his territory. Anyone who defends toll roads in the Russian Federation either does not understand, or is an enemy of Russia.
  Article 27 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation. 1. Everyone who is legally located on the territory of the Russian Federation has the right to move freely, choose the place of stay and residence.
  Toll roads are an infringement of the rights of citizens to free movement. For large families, disabled people, pensioners, low-income citizens, there is a restriction on the right to free movement, i.e. violated the right to freedom of movement.
  Toll and alternative roads are not prescribed in the Constitution of the Russian Federation, so they are not legal.
  High-speed railroads with cosmic ticket prices are tantamount to a ban on ordinary citizens from traveling on them.
Oleg V.

-1

21 August 2023 09: 55

People without changing their place of residence can work in other cities.
who are you

+1

21 August 2023 10: 44

Everything in the country is getting more expensive, and our president is in the dark, everything is in a bunch with him - either he believes, or he thinks that this is a trifle compared to global events. All this is reminiscent of the early Soviet regime - they cut down the forest, the chips fly, but then everything was put at the forefront of the survival of the country for the people, and now it is a country of capital, and everything looks like an attempt to camouflage their profits and close capital by the interests of the population. With the systematic impoverishment of the latter, all kinds of social payments look like a mockery compared to the inability of the authorities to provide a standard of living in the country not for the elite, but for everyone.
Elena123

0

21 August 2023 13: 52

Did they joke? Quickly called from Moscow to Adler in 10 hours??? It's funny even. It's slow.
It will be fast if 4 - 5 hours lasts there will be a trip on passenger trains. But freight trains, if they take such a distance in 10 hours, it will be fine.
Flight

-1

22 August 2023 01: 25

Quote from Voo
It seems that, speaking of high-speed railways, one should treat them not as a business, but as a social responsibility and the obligation of the state to develop infrastructure. China is a prime example of how this works.

Why should I look at China? I look at the only detour in Khabarovsk, which was made paid, this, you understand, they invested. And they mastered the money, and after that they will drip.

I can just see how a military column pays for a toll detour, or goes around a toll detour. But like in Europe.
1_2

+1

22 August 2023 14: 21

now, if Stalin hadn’t built factories, but VSMP, then it would probably have been convenient to drape at a speed of 400 km / h
pavel spb

0

22 August 2023 16: 10

In our weather conditions, it would be efficient to build a high-speed line in a tube, like a subway. Yes, the initial cost is higher, but the maintenance cost will be lower. If you reduce the pressure in the pipe, you can also provide a speed of 1000 km / h without magnetic suspension.
The comment was deleted.
maskazer

0

26 August 2023 10: 07

Given the fact that unlike most other countries Russia is basically self-sufficient in natural resources and technological know-how, it is able to bank roll almost unlimited funds for the construction of hi-speed rails across the country. Such a project will generate millions of direct -indirect jobs, large and small businesses for a long time.
Adm Hts

0

6 September 2023 13: 26

The commercial speed of trains is calculated as the distance over which cargo needs to be delivered divided by the train's travel time. Thus, the indicator takes into account the time while the cars were loaded and unloaded, as well as while the train was standing at technical stations or sidings. The speed of trains between sections is, of course, much higher and on average in Russia is 40-50 kilometers per hour. Commercial speed is more important to the economy. At the end of 2012, the average speed of a freight train in Russia was 9,1 kilometers per hour. Even in their best years, freight trains on Russian railways ran at a commercial speed of 11,6 kilometers per hour (280 kilometers per day), which is significantly inferior to other major economies: in China and Germany, the average commercial train speed is 50-60 kilometers per hour, and in the USA - about 45 kilometers. The share of transport costs in the cost of products in Russia is 20 percent. The global average is 9-10 percent, and in China it is 13 percent. According to Deripaska, in 2021. In Russia, the average speed of a freight train is 16 km/h.

Those. We can’t even drive normally on these “roads”; we’ll build “expressways” and we’ll crawl along them again. Or run only “selected” trains for blazir - supposedly show-offs are more expensive :)
1. Nelton
  
  0
  
  6 September 2023 13: 42
  
  Quote from Adm Hts
  Even in their best years, freight trains on Russian railways ran at a commercial speed of 11,6 kilometers per hour (280 kilometers per day),
  
  the number of kilometers per day is the calculation of the entire logistics operation, including the time for loading and unloading, standing on sidings and all that.
  
  At the end of 2022, the average local speed1 of a freight train on the Russian Railways infrastructure (Fig. 16) was 38,3 km/h, which is 3,5% lower than the same indicator in 2021 (39,7 km/h). The technical speed (Fig. 17) of the freight train at the end of 2022 was 42,9 km/h, which is 3,4% lower than the same indicator in 2021 (44,4 km/h).
  
  and high-speed roads are generally for passenger trains, not for transporting coal and fuel oil.