Rupees instead of rubles: Russia agreed to sell oil to India for local currency

For the sake of expanding mutual trade turnover with India, the Russian Federation agreed to conduct mutual settlements in rupees. For transactions with local currency, Russian banks opened accounts in Indian banks in rupees.

According to the Indian partners, this format of settlements will make it possible to double the total trade turnover between the two countries. The proposal of the Russian Federation to switch to ruble settlements did not find understanding among the authorities and private companies in India. Indian buyers of Russian oil and other goods motivated the refusal to trade in rubles with fears of falling under secondary Western sanctions.

It is obvious that our Indian partners look after their own interests first of all, as stated by the representative of the Ministry of Commerce of India, Sunila Bartawalu, in an interview with the local press.

We want to encourage trading in rupees. This is in our national interest. We will use rupees in those settlements with Russia that are possible

Bartavalu said.

The agreement of the Russian Federation to accept payment for the supplied goods in rupees was reached during a meeting of representatives of business and authorities in September this year in India. Unfortunately, even our closest BRICS partners are in no hurry to consider the Russian ruble as a means of payment in international trade.
  • Photos used: Sohel Patel/
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  1. lance Offline lance
    lance 16 November 2022 13: 36
    a great move, but India should also sell the goods the Russian Federation needs without restrictions.
  2. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 16 November 2022 14: 01
    It is not entirely clear what to do with the rupees then?
    1. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
      Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 16 November 2022 14: 20
      Nobody knows.
    2. Vladimir_ Voronov (Vladimir) 16 November 2022 14: 24
      Buy medicines, etc., negotiate with other countries buying Indian goods to buy from them for rupees. As a last resort, buy physical gold. It does not spoil and it will be more readily accepted than all sorts of "candy wrappers".

      Even the longest journey begins with a timid first step.
      1. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 16 November 2022 17: 41
        negotiate with other countries buying Indian goods to buy from them for rupees.

        This is the same as carrying a fork with a dumpling in your right hand past the back of your head and left ear in order to put the dumpling in your mouth.

        The price of gold is volatile and cyclical.
    3. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 16 November 2022 23: 31
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar)
      Rupees have to be sold on the MICEX, but no one will buy them. Just like the yuan.
  3. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 16 November 2022 14: 16
    What kind of shi-shi did the Soviet government conduct foreign trade in the first five-year plan, what could the Soviet government offer in exchange for Western equipment and technology? There was no gold currency and export goods - oil and gas, metals and fertilizers then, and the national currency was not quoted then as it is today, and the five-year plan was completed in four years and not just completed, but from scratch created entire industries - machine tool building, auto and aircraft building , locomotive and tractor building, chemical industry and agricultural engineering, power engineering and radio industry, a lot of what is today called import substitution, which has been going on since 2014 and the end of the edge is not visible, despite the fact that there were factional disassemblies in the party that spread to the armed forces, which ended shortly before the start of the Second World War.
    1. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 16 November 2022 17: 52
      What kind of shi-shi did the Soviet government conduct foreign trade in the first five-year plan, what could the Soviet government offer in exchange for Western equipment and technology?

      At first, the Soviet authorities sold off works of art from the Winter Palace and the Hermitage, in the early 30s they began to sell grain from badly conducted collectivization, which was one of the causes of the famine of 1932-33.

      and the national currency was not quoted then as it is today

      This is nonsense. There was no other currency then, and it doesn’t matter at all whether it was quoted or not.

      the five-year plan was fulfilled in four years and not just fulfilled, but entire industries were created from scratch ...

      Yes, yes, they fulfilled and overfulfilled in 3 days.

      Here the whole comment of Jaco the parrot can be called spam.
      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 16 November 2022 19: 50
        Invalid numbers. The sale of museum valuables gave a meager result, the seizure of gold from the population, too. The main source of financing is the extraction of gold and the export of raw materials. But in the early 30s, due to the global crisis, the value of exports fell.
        Agricultural exports (grain) were declining. In the trade balance of tsarist Russia, agricultural exports accounted for almost 80%. In 1928, almost 50%. In 1931, less than 45%. So it was not the cause of the famine. At the same time, there was a famine in the States.
        Almost half of the currency for industrialization was provided by loans. By the mid-30s, the external debt of the USSR amounted to almost 1,5 billion gold rubles. But by 1940, the debt fell threefold to 400 million gold rubles. In the same period, gold mining in the USSR increased from 500 to 1500 tons per year.
        1. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 16 November 2022 22: 53
          Invalid numbers.

          What specific numbers are wrong here?
          1. Bakht Offline Bakht
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 16 November 2022 23: 11
            You don't have numbers. It's right. But your opinion that the currency was taken through the sale of cultural property and the export of grain is wrong. These were small amounts. Basically, the currency was taken at the expense of loans, the sale of gold, and in the second half of the 30s, due to the export of products and the reduction of imports.
            1. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 17 November 2022 08: 29
              Cultural values ​​were sold, grain was exported - that's right. I will not argue about the (non-)significance of the amounts, because these figures can be assessed in different ways. But these facts happened.

              There was no hunger 32-33? - was, and in this case your nod towards the States is incorrect: here we are talking about the USSR.

              К mid 30's the external debt of the USSR amounted to almost 1,5 billion gold rubles. But already by 1940 debt has tripled 400 million gold rubles.

              I don’t understand what kind of gold rubles are we talking about? The Stalinist gold ruble was planned to be issued already in the post-war period.
              1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 November 2022 17: 53
                The golden ruble was introduced in the 20s. During the NEP.

                At the XI Congress of the RCP (b) it was decided to create a stable Soviet currency, the resolution of the congress stated:

                For the moment, it is necessary, without in the least setting the task of an immediate return to gold circulation, to firmly establish that our economic and financial policy is resolutely oriented towards the restoration of the gold backing of money.

                On November 27, 1922, banknotes in denominations of 1, 3, 5, 10 and 25 chervonets began to enter circulation. From notes in 1/2, 2 and 50 chervonets, it was decided to abandon, although in 1928 a bill of 2 chervonets went into circulation. It was recorded on banknotes that 1 chervonets contains 1 spool of 78,24 shares (7,74 g) of pure gold, and it was also said that "the beginning of the exchange is established by a special government act."

                The golden ten was estimated on the market at 12 rubles. Soviet signs of 500; The State Bank valued one chervonets at 1922 rubles in Soviet marks.

                1. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 17 November 2022 22: 06
                  The golden ruble was introduced in the 20s. During the NEP.

                  Has been entered. And then, below, instead of a gold ruble, they depicted some piece of paper with signatures. They would have depicted the golden Sower.
                  The NEP was curtailed at the end of the 20s, along with it the "golden ruble" was curtailed.
                  1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 November 2022 22: 53
                    Gold coins were in circulation throughout the 30s. For example, the USSR paid Heydrich's SD with gold chervonets in banknotes. It is possible that they were not used domestically. But in international settlements they were in circulation.
                    1. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 18 November 2022 09: 28
                      Wow, getting closer to the topic.
                      Comrade Bolsheviks minted gold coins in 1922 and 1925, the experimental population was given papers with signatures, and the gold coins were kept in Gokhran. And the sharks of imperialism categorically refused to accept those pieces of paper in their calculations, perhaps with the exception of Heydrich's SD. For this reason, the sharks of imperialism were paid with golden Sowers, which were not enough for a long time. Then comrade Bolsheviks minted gold coins with the image of Nicholas II and the release dates of 1898 and 1911, passing off their coins as royal ones.
                      By the way, the minting of golden Sowers continued in the late Soviet period - the 70-80s. If I'm not mistaken, before 1982.
                      Finally, it remains only to say where the Bolsheviks in the 20s got so much gold to mint coins: they torn apart domestic bourgeoisie, museum valuables, stripped the experimental population and took out agricultural products. products that were far from enough for everyone.
                      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 18 November 2022 17: 39
                        Again about museum values ​​and the export of agricultural products? Tsarist Russia exported much more. And museum values ​​gave several million. And several billions were spent on industrialization. More than half of it was the sale of gold. Its production has steadily increased. There was a particularly large increase in the 30s. And another source is loans from Western countries. After the start of the crisis in the West, the capitalists invested in the Soviet economy. as the fastest growing.
                      2. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 18 November 2022 20: 11
                        Again about museum values ​​and the export of agricultural products? Tsarist Russia exported much more.

                        Not again, but again.
                        Tsarist Russia exported more museum treasures than Soviet Russia? I doubt it very much.

                        More than half of it was the sale of gold. Its production has steadily increased. There was a particularly large increase in the 30s.

                        Can you tell by years how much gold was mined in the USSR every year? And preferably without the words "steadily increased."

                        Western countries gave loans without any guarantees? Just because they themselves had a crisis, and they had nowhere to put their money?
                      3. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 19 November 2022 08: 42
                        Tsarist Russia exported agricultural products. It should have been clear from the text.
                        Data on gold mining in the USSR has always been classified. It is known that in 1913 63 tons of gold were mined in Russia. After the civil war, the industry was in ruins. About 6 tons per year were mined. Growth began in 1929.

                        In the 30s. the volume of Soviet gold mining was maintained at a level of about 130 tons per year, the next two years gave an increase by an average of 20 tons, in 1941 the volume of production was about 174 tons. During the years of the pre-war five-year plans, about 2,7 thousand tons were spent on industrial needs gold, which undoubtedly played an important role in ensuring the industrialization and technical and economic independence of Soviet Russia.

                        As John Littlepage notes, his description of the Soviet gold mining industry has "deliberately remained superficial": he knows the production figures, but refrains from publishing them: "The Soviet authorities themselves are very secretive when it comes to details in this industry, and I do not want to publish facts, which may irritate them. And then he continues to hint: “It has become fashionable lately, because the Soviets are developing the gold mining industry so quickly, to speculate about the amount of gold production. I could never understand why the Soviet government would not publish these figures, like other states. From my point of view, there is no reason to classify anything here. But the Soviet government has some implicit motives for keeping the information secret, and since I worked for the state as a specialist, it is unethical of me to disclose these figures, although I know them from work. However, there is no harm in confirming, to my own knowledge: the Soviets rightly claim that they are second in the world. I have watched them rise to this level for several years, overtaking the United States and Canada, so that only South Africa surpasses them. And I see no reason why they should not hold this position indefinitely. I know from my own observation that the Soviets can increase gold production very significantly in the near future if they want to.”

                        “Definiteness in this issue is introduced by the American Ambassador Joseph Davis, who in his book “Mission to Moscow” (1942) cites his note to the American Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau dated March 15, 1937. In it, the ambassador reports that the annual production of the precious metal in the USSR is estimated at 175 tons. This is the second place in the world after South Africa (325-350 tons). The USA and Canada share only the third-fourth places (100 tons each). In less than ten years, the Soviet Union increased the extraction of the precious metal by 7-8 times. John Littlepage's book "In Search of Soviet Gold" is interesting and useful not only from the point of view of a better understanding of our history of the twentieth century. It gives many constructive hints on how to develop Russia's "currency shop" in today's conditions," Valentin Katasonov concluded.
                      4. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 19 November 2022 09: 15
                        Western countries gave loans (and even sold factories) not because they had nowhere to put their money. Or they didn't have enough money. In the face of falling demand, they simply had to maintain production. And make a profit.

                        Now about the export of agricultural products. It is easy to link two phenomena if they happened at about the same time. But this is not always true. Nobody argues that the USSR exported grain in the 30s. There are quite official documents on this topic. And even signed by Stalin and the orders of the Council of People's Commissars.
                        But here's what's interesting. In 1930, the USSR exported about 5 million tons of grain. In 1931, a little more than 5 million tons. Tsarist Russia exported the same amount. Stalin wrote that our task is to reach the level of 1913, when 5 million tons were exported from Russia.
                        In 1932 (and the famine broke out in the autumn of 1932), grain exports fell sharply to 1,7 million tons. Unlike gold mining, export data is available in print.

                        There are several reasons for hunger. The export of grain is one of the reasons. Not the only one.
                        Experts have long noted that almost the entire territory of Russia belongs to the zone of risky farming. Crop failures happened repeatedly. One of the reasons for the "Time of Troubles" is several lean years in a row. This period was called the "Great Famine of 1601-1603". I think that Stalin and collectivization did not exist then. The country is practically depopulated.

                        If you look at the works of specialists (I only looked at the conclusions, because this topic was not very interesting), the cause of the famine was improper land use in the 20s, as a result of which land salinization and the growth of grain diseases. Also one of the reasons (one) was the speed of collectivization. But the very idea of ​​collectivization was correct. Small-scale production is unprofitable in any country in the world. At present, the main production is provided not by small private traders, but by large agro-industrial holdings. This is true both for Russia and for the States.
                      5. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 19 November 2022 11: 39
                        About gold. In short, it is completely unknown exactly how much gold was mined each year and how much gold was spent each year. So what you say is absolutely true:

                        In the same period (what?) gold mining in the USSR increased from 500 to 1500 tons per year (what year?).

                        Consequently, all research on this topic is very vague and non-specific. "This mystery is great" and so on.

                        About bread. As I wrote above, the export of grain was one of the reasons hunger 32-33, but perhaps not the most important. During collectivization, cattle were socialized, which the peasants, not being able to hide, simply slaughtered = there was no one to plow in subsequent years = hunger.

                        About collectivization. I'm not sure that this idea was correct, now something is not heard about any collective farms-state farms - farmers, peasant and agro-farms, and so on. But the idea of ​​collectivization was by no means the only one. First, Stalin sent a wave from above = comrades on the ground picked it up = the wave became the "ninth wave" = the lower comrades "deepened" = the "ninth wave" turned into a tsunami that washed away those unfortunate kulaks, peasants and other sub-kulakists. And Comrade Stalin in 1930 wrote the article "Dizziness from Success", where he personally criticized the methods of carrying out collectivization, removing even the appearance of his guilt. Read "Virgin Soil Upturned" by Sholokhov, everything is shown in colors there.

                        Especially thanks for the lecture, although I did not discover anything new for myself.
                      6. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 19 November 2022 14: 06
                        About 500 and 1500 tons, this is my carelessness. These were the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the USSR. The amount of gold mined approximately converges with all researchers. From 60 tons in 1928 to 170-175 tons in 1939.

                        We talked about funding sources. The main source is the sale of gold, followed by Western loans. Everything else had a small percentage.

                        Large agricultural holdings, both in Russia and in the West, are the main source of agricultural production. Small farms are going bankrupt. You can search for data by states. There were no terrible Bolsheviks there. So the idea, in general, was correct. The execution sucked. As always.

                        I had no intention of lecturing in any way. It's just that the topic of collectivization is not always covered correctly. There was another goal of collectivization, a mention of which, I almost never met.
                    2. trampoline instructor (Cotriarch Peril) 19 November 2022 11: 54
                      In hindsight, I thought this:
                      In England in the 16th century there was a process of "fencing", when "sheep ate people" = a huge mass of peasants, left without their land, rushed to the cities. Subsequently, the descendants of these peasants began to work in manufactories, and from the 18th century - in emerging factories.
                      The Bolsheviks of the early 20th century got a 90% peasant country, it was necessary to carry out industrialization, raise the economy, etc. = workers were needed, which there was nowhere to take, except to tear the peasants from the land, dragging them through a hunger strike. Yesterday's peasants have become a low-skilled and not very educated working class.
                      You give a 5-year plan in 4 days, Stakhanovites, Chelyuskinites, enemies of the people, Trotskyists, wreckers, Ezhov's mittens ...
                    3. Bakht Offline Bakht
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 19 November 2022 14: 23
                      It is precisely this factor that is not covered almost anywhere. Labor was needed for industrialization. And large farms, tractors gave a huge increase in the labor force. And, correctly noted, in the cities they had to be fed.
                      But with your sarcasm and rejection of industrialization, I strongly disagree. Yes, the workers were not very skilled. But they were learning. Just like an engineer.
                      A five-year plan "in 4 days" was also needed. Stakhanovites were needed. And Chelyuskins. These people laid the foundation of an industrial power.

                      The main problem of modern critics of the Soviet system is that they do not correlate those acts and modernity. Is it possible today to develop the SevMorPut without Chelyuskinites? Or Koshkin from the peasants could create the T-34. Ilyushin is also from the peasantry. Why did Papanin and Krenkel freeze their asses at the North Pole?
                      We use the fruits of their labors and I do not adequately perceive those contemporaries who spit on their achievements.

                      Foma Fomich became a captain from the family of a railway worker from the Bologoye Oktyabrskaya station, and in the past the Nikolaev railway. He was a fezushnik in forty-two, a soldier in forty-three, a corporal in forty-four, a sergeant on the extreme northern flank in forty-five and forty-six. Then he passed the middle sailor, the evening university of Marxism-Leninism, advanced training courses for the command staff of the merchant fleet, another university and another course.

                      Who from the young, long-haired generation thinks that to overcome all this - just spit, let him try!
  • 1_2 Offline 1_2
    1_2 (Ducks are flying) 16 November 2022 23: 39
    if Indians want to buy Russian goods for their candy wrappers, then the Russian Federation should also buy Indian goods, including for their own candy wrappers. but the Russian Federation needs to fuse Western (euro) candy wrappers for resources, so the issue of paying for imports in rubles is not yet worth it, but when the revenue in euros drops, there will be nothing to pay for imports, except for rubles and barter. and in order to offer goods for barter, they need to start producing, but since India and China produce almost everything themselves, and cheaper, they will not be interested in anything other than resources. it means that Russian goods should replace their goods on the Russian market (or screw up Russian production) - then what should the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation do with extra rupees and yuan with minimal imports? buy their bonds? steamship factories? and where is the guarantee that they will not be taken away following the example of the West?
    it means that you will have to reduce the export of resources, and this is good for future generations of the Russian Federation (they will get more) and bad for countries that depend on the resources of the Russian Federation - the price of resources will skyrocket and will grow, and the Russian Federation will receive the same or even more for smaller amounts of resources )) an example with gas)) this will cause a rise in prices for all goods in the world and a depreciation of the currencies of all resource-dependent countries (the West in the first place), and the currency of the Russian Federation will become harder than a diamond - the Russian ruble will replace the euro, dollar and yuan with rupees)) the Russian Federation can print hundreds of trillions of hard rubles (following the example of the West), the whole world will keep savings in rubles, putting them under the mattress)) the Russian Federation will buy world goods for the actual cost of a piece of paper (ruble), and even buy individual countries (Russian production will be subsidized so as not to died)), the Russians will become the richest nation on the planet (super high salaries in .. subsidized industries and large pensions in hard rubles at the expense of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation), they will buy world goods literally for a week spruce, then throwing out almost new ones to a landfill)) super-consumption will come in the Russian Federation)) thus repeating the path of the West, which, as you know, also lived beautifully by printing trillions of candy wrappers. until resource prices soared, but this does not threaten the Russian Federation ...
    in order for all this to happen, let me remind you - for the first time it is necessary to replace imports, and then reduce the export of resources to almost zero in order to cause a hyper rise in prices for resources and a collapse in the world's currencies)) ... and then print trillions of solid ones (the ruble will only grow) rubles - the currency of the whole planet))
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 November 2022 18: 03
      Russia's gold reserves are estimated at 2300 tons. That is, 2,3 billion grams of gold. In the spring, the Central Bank of Russia set the domestic price for gold at 5000 rubles per gram. That is, you can have 11,5 trillion rubles secured by gold.
      To date, the same Central Bank of Russia has stated that the M0 aggregate (cash banknotes in circulation) is a little more than 14 trillion rubles.
      It turns out that, in fact, the Russian ruble already has a gold backing. Unlike the dollar or the euro. You can't talk about rupees at all.

      PS I hope I didn't mess up anything with zeros wink