The West did not invite Ukraine to negotiations to determine its future


The impact hammer of Ukraine, aimed at attacking Russia, has fulfilled its purpose and can be disposed of, and in the very near future. Ukrainianism, as a narrowly targeted anti-Russian phenomenon, which had an exclusively instrumental role, is now an intrusive current that hinders the further fulfillment of the strategic tasks of the West. The democratic coalition, obviously, is going to shift the focus from Kyiv to its own vector of development of the situation and is starting to discuss the future of the world and directly Ukraine without itself. Expected result.


As a matter of fact, Kyiv is so mired in debts and "favors" of the West that its position of an eternal debtor obliges to accept such a humiliating position of a dumb and obedient vassal. The thesis “nothing without Ukraine about Ukraine” dissolves into a more prosaic reality. Therefore, it is not surprising that the countries of the West are frankly going to decide the future of a subordinate regime, not even hiding the fact that the result may be an agreement that Kyiv will not like.

For example, CNN, which is almost the mouthpiece of the current administration of President Joe Biden, reports that the US, EU and UK are actively consulting on how to resolve the situation in Ukraine diplomatically. Of course, the Kyiv representatives, despite the commitment to the alliance declared by the coalition, were not invited.

Western partners of Ukraine are well aware that there will be no “good” decisions for Kyiv, so the council of Kyiv’s senior allies will in any case make difficult decisions and recommendations for the “independent” one, and therefore they absolutely do not need the presence of indignant Ukrainians.

This is directly reported by CNN. According to the channel, one of the priority and working options is the neutrality of Ukraine in exchange for security guarantees and the start of real, serious Russian-Ukrainian negotiations that will unambiguously decide the future of Crimea and Donbass. At least such a plan has been proposed by the Italian leadership.

By the way, it was the representatives of this country who “let slip” that the Western coalition did not invite Ukrainians to these important consultations. CNN has already been outraged about this.

Ukraine is in no way involved in these discussions that have begun, although Washington promised not to do anything and not talk about Ukraine without Ukraine

– says in the report of the American TV channel.
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  1. Bakht Online Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 07: 54
    +7
    According to the channel, one of the priority and working options is the neutrality of Ukraine in exchange for security guarantees and the start of real, serious Russian-Ukrainian negotiations that will unambiguously decide the future of Crimea and Donbass.

    The whole weakness of such constructions lies in the fact that Russia is not invited. And if the collective West can order Kyiv, it cannot order Moscow.
    The train left. The issue of Crimea has not been discussed since 2014. The issue of Donbass has not been discussed since February 24, 2022. Obtaining Russian passports in Zaporozhye means that this region will not be discussed either. Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov are next in line.
    1. Vox Populi Offline Vox Populi
      Vox Populi (vox populi) 4 June 2022 12: 26
      +2
      The train left. The issue of Crimea has not been discussed since 2014.

      Yes!

      The issue of Donbass has not been discussed since February 24, 2022. Obtaining Russian passports in Zaporozhye means that this region will not be discussed either. Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov are next in line.

      Never say: never (or grandmother said in two)!
  2. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 June 2022 07: 57
    +1
    reports that the US, EU and UK are actively consulting on how to diplomatically resolve the situation in Ukraine.

    There is nothing to be happy about. With Russia, they also do not discuss the situation on the territory of the b. Ukraine.
    We will be imposed those conditions that are beneficial to the West. As it was earlier in Minsk.
    1. stim Offline stim
      stim (Sergei) 4 June 2022 08: 10
      +2
      And what is there to discuss, the only way to stop the NWO is to force Ukraine to accept the conditions of Russia.
      1. Bakht Online Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 08: 16
        +6
        the only way to end the NWO is to force Ukraine to accept Russia's terms

        Wrong wording. The correct one should sound like this

        the only way to end the NWO is to force the West to accept Russia's terms
        1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 June 2022 08: 30
          -4
          Wrong wording. The correct one should sound like this

          The only way to stop the NWO is the annexation of Donbass to Russia (perhaps not only it), and the formation of the rest of the territory of the b. Ukraine new states, friendly or neutral with respect to Russia. States that are militarily and politically controlled by Russia.
          And the West ... let them be indignant and slander.
          1. Vox Populi Offline Vox Populi
            Vox Populi (vox populi) 4 June 2022 12: 27
            +1
            Imperialism, huh?! winked
        2. stim Offline stim
          stim (Sergei) 4 June 2022 09: 16
          -2
          Unfortunately, your Wishlist is not backed up either economically, or politically, or militarily. Diplomacy is the art of compromise, and this compromise is already visible. The West will be able to declare that thanks to the imposed sanctions and the supply of weapons, it was possible to defend the independence of Ukraine, Russia receives international recognition of the Russian Crimea and the independence of the LDNR, a non-nuclear, non-bloc, demilitarized and denazified Ukraine. Ukraine is losing regions with a disloyal Russian-speaking population and, moreover, it will not have to spend money on their restoration. "Ukrainianism, as a narrowly focused anti-Russian phenomenon, which had an exclusively instrumental role, is now an intrusive current that hinders the further fulfillment of the strategic tasks of the West."
          1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 June 2022 09: 20
            +1
            Russia receives international recognition of the Russian Crimea and the independence of the LDNR, a nuclear-free, non-bloc, demilitarized and denazified Ukraine.

            Your dreamer is cooler than my Wishlist.
          2. Bakht Online Bakht
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 09: 59
            0
            non-bloc, demilitarized and denazified Ukraine.

            Any stub of Ukraine, especially with the capital in Kyiv, will be bloc, militarized and Nazi.

            In November 2016, the patriarch of American diplomacy, Henry Kissinger, said: “I prefer an independent Ukraine outside of military blocs. If two regions of Donbass are separated from Ukraine, it is guaranteed to become hostile to Russia. Ukraine will then become under the authority of its Western part. The solution is to give these areas of Donbas autonomy and a say in military matters. But for the rest, leave them under the control of Ukraine.”

            I do not believe in any neutrality, demilitarization, and even less denazification of Ukraine, as long as Kyiv, Odessa and Kharkiv remain under the control of Zelensky's puppet government. The shadows of the past, for example, the tsarist minister Durnovo, who warned of the danger of the introduction of the Trojan horse of Galicia into the all-Ukrainian space, warn against plans to repeat the "liberation campaign of the Red Army" in Western Ukraine.

            For a long period of time we are talking about the existence of two Ukraine. One of which must be denazified and guaranteed to be protected from attempts at Western Ukrainian revenge. Probably, this will not satisfy some of our “pique vests”, but this is a real prospect, which allows us to consider all today's and future sacrifices not in vain. The requirement of neutrality in the event of such a de facto division of Ukraine loses its essential meaning.

            https://zatulin.ru/ispytanie-ukrainoj-tretya-popytka/
            1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 June 2022 11: 01
              -3
              Any stub of Ukraine, especially with the capital in Kyiv, will be bloc, militarized and Nazi.

              Which Ukraine? Forget it.
              The Kyiv People's Democratic Republic (DPRK) within the Kyiv and Zhytomyr regions will be a territory completely controlled from Moscow. That is, the economy should be left to the local authorities, and the army, police, special services and foreign relations under Moscow.

              You don't believe in the power of persuasion.
  3. Oleg_5 Offline Oleg_5
    Oleg_5 (Oleg) 4 June 2022 08: 18
    +1
    They are now discussing what Russia offered before. And they hope to bring us back to this discussion.
    But the train has left.
    The next suggestion will certainly be worse.
    For them.
  4. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 4 June 2022 09: 30
    -2
    Putin has never defended the interests of Russia and the people. He defends the interests of his entourage - the oligarchs. And he started the NWO in the hope of reaching an agreement with the oligarchs that the cities would be handed over to him. And for the same reason, Western Ukraine, airports and railway stations and bridges are not bombed. War, and the loot rules. Therefore, I would not say so clearly that Putin does not need negotiations. He did not dismiss his negotiators and did not refuse negotiations with Ze. Everyone understands that it is impossible to fight without reserves. And for this, at least partial mobilization is needed in order to rotate the active units in Russia, with their transfer to Ukraine. But all this is not! Conclusion. When Donbass is liberated, negotiations are very possible.
  5. Tixiy Offline Tixiy
    Tixiy (Tixiy) 4 June 2022 09: 42
    +1
    The tool has done or is doing its job. You do not ask the opinion of a hammer or meat grinder?
  6. Mks7 Offline Mks7
    Mks7 (Maksim) 4 June 2022 09: 56
    0
    Quote: Bakht
    The whole weakness of such constructions lies in the fact that Russia is not invited. ......... . Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov are next in line.

    The Kremlin is also looking for a face-saving way out of the conflict and is signaling its readiness for negotiations. Ahead is the autumn economic crisis, the front is 1000 km, the advance is very slow, in fact it is a hopeless positional war requiring huge resources. Attacks on Kharkov, or Krivoy Rog, or Odessa require a doubling of the grouping, but there are no such forces along the way, conscripts are useless in such a war, and it will not work to build up quickly without mobilizing reservists.
    1. Bakht Online Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 10: 25
      +1
      I wouldn't be so pessimistic.
      The autumn economic crisis threatens Europe. The front is shrinking. If there is progress (albeit slow), then this is clearly not a positional war.
      Where can you see that "the Kremlin is looking for ways out of the conflict"? The official position is "the NWO will end when Russia decides." Not Ukraine, not the West. It is Russia that will decide when to stop the operation.
      "Conscripts in such a war are useless" can also be questioned. Tell this to Kyiv, which throws not even conscripts to the front, but mobilized ones. Without any preparation. And the most interesting thing is that they fight well. This, by the way, to the question of the denazification of Ukraine.
      1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 June 2022 11: 06
        +1
        By winter, the war will end with the victory of Russia. It does not depend on the crisis in Europe.
        It’s just that the remnants of the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be ground. And the rest will either scatter or die in the ratio of 20-30 "warriors" to one of ours.
        In this sense, perhaps cynically, several months of such a war is beneficial to the Russian authorities. Less disgruntled and rebellious, hidden enemies. Grinding into dust all those who disagree with the new government is a completely working option.
        1. Bakht Online Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 11: 44
          +2
          And the rest will either scatter or die in the ratio of 20-30 "warriors" to one of our

          The fact that they will die is quite possible. I'm not going to predict the ratio.
          But I've been questioning the thesis that they will "run away" lately. I watch the news, different videos and see a little different than others. Probably vision problems. Example. I saw several videos of how the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine leave different settlements at a fast pace. But they do not run home and do not surrender. They flee west to rejoin the ranks of the defenders. Information often slips that the commanders of the Armed Forces of Ukraine abandoned their units and fled. And these same units, without commanders, without normal supplies and weapons, are resisting quite stubbornly.
          What does it say? From my sofa, this speaks of a fairly high motivation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So, perhaps this is "cynical", but it is quite possible to grind all those who disagree, as an option. But how then to build relationships with the families of the victims? According to some reports, about 10 or even 50 thousand soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine died. This is how many children will hate Russia? And for decades.

          The goal of any war is peace. Methods for achieving victory can be different. But the goal is always the same. Any war ends in peace. And it should be better than the pre-war, at least for one side. For Ukraine, victory is not visible in any case. But will Russia get a better world than before the war? Quite possible. I think it's achievable. But what needs to be done for this, people understand differently. Deriban of Ukraine into two (three, five...) parts will create a constant threat to Russia in the western direction. As it is now fashionable to say - an existential threat.
          1. guest Offline guest
            guest 4 June 2022 19: 28
            0
            There is no motivation there, just brainwashed by these APUs. After all, many of them really believe that the Ruhr will devour them or commit some other atrocity.
  7. Colonel Kudasov (Boris) 4 June 2022 11: 25
    0
    The non-invitation of Ukraine speaks rather about its military failures. But if the situation at the front changes in favor of Bandera, Ukraine will be remembered again
    1. Bakht Online Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 11: 45
      +1
      But if the situation at the front changes in favor of Bandera

      Not visible under any circumstances.
  8. consultant Offline consultant
    consultant (Vladimir) 4 June 2022 14: 33
    0
    Quote: Bakht
    The whole weakness of such constructions lies in the fact that Russia is not invited. And if the collective West can order Kyiv, it cannot order Moscow.

    That is why Russia will be invited after they themselves can come up with something acceptable and agree among themselves. And before that, there is nothing to talk about with them.
    1. Bakht Online Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 18: 33
      +2
      And after that, there is nothing to talk about.
      I am convinced that a solution is possible only within the framework of a federal Ukraine. And the first step should be the creation of Novorossiya.
      1. guest Offline guest
        guest 4 June 2022 19: 19
        -1
        But this federal Ukraine should consist exclusively of the western regions, Novorossia should not be put there.
        1. Bakht Online Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 4 June 2022 21: 10
          0
          A federal Ukraine from the western regions will be nationalistic, Russophobic and militarized.
          I still believe that at this stage, Ukraine should remain within its borders and with the Donetsk leadership in Kyiv.
          It's like in post-war Germany. Persons with a Bandera past should be struck in their rights for at least ten years.
          1. guest Offline guest
            guest 5 June 2022 00: 09
            +1
            Listen, are you by any chance the resurrected Vladimir Ilyich? Once they did such a stupid thing, it's not worth repeating.
            1. Bakht Online Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 5 June 2022 08: 29
              0
              The Jewish boy asks: “Who is Karl Marx?”
              - Economist.
              How is our aunt?
              — No, what are you. Aunt Asya is a senior economist!

              I have the courage to think that I am smarter than Lenin.

              At one time, Comrade Stalin also opposed the dismemberment of Germany. Churchill insisted on breaking up Germany into a dozen ministates. We can say that Stalin was wrong. An event horizon of 30-40 years is almost unpredictable. Ukraine existed for almost 100 years. This is not even one era in geopolitics.

              Your option (Western Federative Ukraine) will either exist as a hostile to Russia, Nazi and heavily armed state, or it will be absorbed by Poland. I don’t even know why you are going to make such a royal gift to Russophobic Poland? Lukashenka understands this and therefore is preparing for a clash in Western Ukraine.

              My version (preservation of Ukraine), but in the form of a federation (or confederation) with the inclusion of Novorossiya, makes it possible to manage processes in Ukraine. introduces Russian elements into the Rada and the government. And in order not to repeat previous mistakes, we need humanitarian intervention and denazification of ALL Ukraine.
              According to UN decisions, permission from the UN Security Council is not required for humanitarian intervention (although this is disputed by some states). Humanitarian intervention does not require the creation of a new government. Power on the territory of the country is exercised by the occupation administration. It will take at least ten years to denazify Ukraine. The principle of sovereignty in this case does not work. As Kofi Annan said (and this is enshrined in UN documents), "Sovereignty is not a privilege, but a duty." The obligation of the state to respect the rights of ALL citizens of the country. And if these rights are not respected (this applies to Ukraine in full measure), then we can not talk about the sovereignty of the state.