Will Turkey get Russian engines for its fighter?


One of the most significant News In recent days, it is worth considering the information that Russia can provide assistance to Turkey in the development of its own fifth generation fighter. Considering the extremely difficult relations between Ankara and Moscow in Syria, Libya, Transcaucasia and Central Asia, this topic requires substantive discussion.


As we have repeatedly noted, Turkey is rapidly rushing into a closed club of great powers with the appropriate attributes: powerful army and navy, helicopter carriers and promising aircraft carriers, its own main battle tank and heavy helicopter, attack drones, and a fifth generation fighter. The creation of the latter is a non-trivial task.

In 2010, Ankara announced the TF-X (Turkish Fighter Experimental) program, which provides for the development of a fifth generation national fighter by 2023, the centenary of the founding of the Republic of Turkey. Several variants of the aircraft are proposed: with one or two engines, with one or two pilots, as well as the variant of its interaction not with other fighters, but with unmanned aerial vehicles. There are a lot of plans. However, they stumbled over the problem of Ankara's lack of a number of critical components, including an aircraft engine, radars with headlights, and avionics. It will not take all this out of nowhere, for the development and production of such equipment entire branches of the defense industry are required. And what did the Turks do?

Ankara followed a completely reasonable path. First, under an American license, Turkish Aerospace Industries began producing General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon fighters, which are in service with the Turkish Air Force. By the way, the F-16 is being modernized there for the needs of the Pakistani Air Force. In addition, Ankara joined the international program to create the fifth generation American fighter, the F-35. Within its framework, more than 1000 parts of this aircraft are produced in Turkey. Turkish Aerospace Industries CEO Temel Kotil explained:

In the F-35 co-production program, my company is building the center fuselage. Thus, this means that in terms of production, Turkish Aerospace Industries has enough capacity to create the TF-X fighter.

Thus, even being excluded from the F-35 program, Turkey was not left completely empty-handed. On the contrary, along with international cooperation, it was developing the national TF-X fighter.

The main snag is, of course, the engine. Turkey does not yet have its own, so at the first stage it is supposed to use imported, but on condition of parallel development of its own. But who will be ready to supply power plants to Ankara? USA? Europe? China? Russia?

It is known that Turkey was in talks with General Electric on the use of the American F110 aircraft engine. For some reason, the head of the Turkish Defense Industry Directorate Ismail Demir believes that there will be no problems with the supply of the power plant from the United States, and they will buy everything else from Russia:

We have no problems with the purchase of the engine [F110].

Incomprehensible optimism. Relations between Ankara and Washington remain very tense. The United States has already thrown the Turks with the F-35. Why do they think that Uncle Sam will not blackmail them in the future by suspending or refusing to supply power plants for the fifth generation fighter? Especially if some Russian components are used in TF-X. It will be a shame to remain with a practically finished plane, in which more than $ 10 billion has been invested, but without an engine. Europe? Theoretically, the TF-X can be equipped with a power plant from Raphael or Typhoon, but are the Europeans themselves ready for this, given the equally difficult relationship with the restless “Sultan”? China? Recently, the Chinese ambassador in an unusually harsh manner criticized the actions of the Turks in Syria. Beijing is clearly offended by Ankara's support for the Uyghurs. Only Russia remains, and it seems that it is on Moscow that President Erdogan is making the main stake.

Russian officials from the military-industrial complex have long been trying to sell the Su-35 and Su-57 fighters to the Turks. However, the Turks do not need Russian aircraft, they need Russian technology to produce their own fifth generation fighter. This is actually directly stated by the above-mentioned Ismail Demir:

RF possesses technologies in the field of aeroacoustics, aerothermodynamics and infrastructure for creating a fighter. Moscow has the technology to create a turbojet engine for a fifth generation fighter. The collaboration will also include avionics, radar, sensors, ejection seat and data transmission systems.


Note that the Turkish official only casually mentioned the jet engine, focusing on other components. This is nothing other than Eastern guile. Stories about the American F110 - a banal "talking teeth" in the bazaar in the spirit of "I saw the same thing around the corner, only cheaper" in order to bring down the price. There is nothing around the corner. First of all, Ankara needs Russian power plants, since no other modern Turkey with its aggressive external policies will not supply them.

The key question is, do we need to supply them at all? And which ones, if you do deliver?

Note that Russia itself does not really have an engine for a fifth generation fighter. Our Su-57 so far flies on the AL-41F1 (product 117), and the Su-35S - on the AL-41F-1C (product 117S). So far, we have to wait for the readiness of "Product 30", which will surpass its predecessors, issuing a maximum thrust of 11000 kgf and afterburner - 18000 kgf versus 9500 kgf and 15000 kgf, respectively. For less than the AL-41F1 used on the planes that Moscow tried to sell to it, Ankara will definitely not agree. Based on the experience of purchasing the S-400, one can expect that Turkey, having purchased the first batch of engines, will insist on the localization of their production in its country, partial or complete. In addition, knowing the "Sultan", it is quite possible to expect that he will offer Russia to join forces in the revision of "Product 30", as well as in the joint production of other aviation components.

Is it permissible to transfer such technologies to the Turks? Of course not. Arming your potential enemy yourself, selling him modern air defense systems, as well as Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, this is just some kind of nonsense. To give him the technology of their production is real madness.
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  1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 13 December 2021 12: 36
    -3
    It will certainly get. The Turks even offered the Su-57 at MAKS. As a side dish for ice cream.
  2. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
    sgrabik (Sergei) 13 December 2021 12: 43
    +1
    Effective managers for the sake of profit are ready to sacrifice anything, even their mother is ready to sell, and the national interests of Russia, even more so, it is necessary to drive such hucksters out of the structure of the defense industry complex, otherwise they will squander everything and sell for a penny, it is necessary to learn from their mistakes, really 90- e years we have not yet been taught anything ???
  3. S WITH Offline S WITH
    S WITH (N S) 13 December 2021 14: 30
    0
    The Turks want a medium fighter, such as the moment 29, rafal, eurofighter, the su35 engines will not work for it, only the mig29 engines, the Russian Federation sells them to the Chinese, and will sell them to the Turks if asked.
    there can be no talk of any technology transfer, well, maybe except for the production technology of the aircraft landing gear wheel
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 13 December 2021 14: 37
      0
      Well, we'll see for ourselves soon.
    2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 13 December 2021 16: 00
      -3
      MiG-29 light fighter.

      there can be no talk of any technology transfer,

      They will. Currency is needed.
  4. Joker62 Offline Joker62
    Joker62 (Ivan) 13 December 2021 15: 21
    +1
    This official and also the "sultan" should be given (better to buy) lip-rolling machines! am
    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 13 December 2021 15: 58
      -3
      According to the Federal Customs Service, from January to September 2021, 240,5 tons of gold were exported from Russia. At the same time, according to the Ministry of Finance, during the same period, the country produced 256,54 tons. Most of the bullion was exported to London, where they are sold on the Commodity Exchange. The Central Bank of Russia allowed gold exports last spring, and President Vladimir Putin signed a law in June this year allowing not to return foreign currency proceeds from gold sales to Russia. Against this backdrop, the sale of a morally obsolete aircraft engine to Turkey looks positive.
      1. Binder Offline Binder
        Binder (Miron) 13 December 2021 18: 31
        -3
        Quote: gunnerminer
        the sale of an obsolete aircraft engine to Turkey looks positive.

        There is not the slightest doubt that the Russian side is gladly and on preferential terms ready to sell anything to the Turks, the question is, will the Turks want to purchase Russian engines for their fighter? In this regard, there are serious concerns ...
        1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 13 December 2021 18: 33
          -5
          Most likely, this is a Turkish bargaining chip with the United States.
  5. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 13 December 2021 19: 33
    0
    Will Turkey get Russian engines for its fighter?

    - Ha, but does Russia have anything else left today that it (Russia) can offer from "military novelties" ??? - Vaughn and the Indians for a long time, to put it mildly - turn up their nose from Russian aviation and other products ... - And China already supplies its products to the whole world with might and main - no worse than Russian ones ... - and much cheaper ...
    - True, Russia is still attractive in that it practices a rather original form of "selling Russian weapons" ... - these are "loans and barter" .... And loans, as usual, are not fully returned - Russia simply "forgives" them .. .. - Well, and "barter" - it is barter - it is mainly - local crafts and products of the third world countries, palm oil, etc. and so on ... - all this in exchange for Russian missiles, tanks, fighters, etc. and so on ... - Such is the "friendly Russian trade" in its weapons ...
  6. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 14 December 2021 13: 09
    0
    Double, triple citizenship, what is it like - two or three Motherlands?
    The Bible also says that two masters cannot be equally loyal.
    As soon as they come to the attention of law enforcement agencies, they immediately, taking the loot, change one "homeland" to another.
    Karl Marx said that big capital will go to any crime for the sake of 300% of the profit.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 23 December 2021 03: 48
    -1
    Is it permissible to transfer such technologies to the Turks? Of course not. Arming your potential enemy yourself, selling him modern air defense systems, as well as Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, this is just some kind of nonsense. To give him the technology of their production is real madness.

    - Russia does not have technologies commensurate with the American ones, therefore, if it sells the same Turks air defense systems, airplanes, their production technologies, engines, it does not risk anything special.
    Some of the F-35 parts are produced in Turkey, so the Turks already have access to a number of technologies that are not yet available to Rosaviaprom. so don't be afraid of "leaks" ... wink
  9. Crunch Offline Crunch
    Crunch (Crunch) 10 January 2022 00: 35
    0
    Still, I think the author is thickening the clouds. The sale of the S-400 has achieved something. Turkish participation in the F-35 program has been disrupted. To do more, for example, to make a good quarrel by slipping more engines or the planes themselves with promises to teach and convey ..... It will not work. Blue (or pink) dreams. Turks depend on penguins much more than on aircraft engines. So, get-togethers with the servicing of seeds, from which not to chat.
  10. Crunch Offline Crunch
    Crunch (Crunch) 10 January 2022 00: 39
    0
    Quote: Michael1950
    Is it permissible to transfer such technologies to the Turks? Of course not. Arming your potential enemy yourself, selling him modern air defense systems, as well as Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, this is just some kind of nonsense. To give him the technology of their production is real madness.

    - Russia does not have technologies commensurate with the American ones, therefore, if it sells the same Turks air defense systems, airplanes, their production technologies, engines, it does not risk anything special.
    Some of the F-35 parts are produced in Turkey, so the Turks already have access to a number of technologies that are not yet available to Rosaviaprom. so don't be afraid of "leaks" ... wink

    Making a fuselage is not making turbines for dviguns at all. Well, they will make their own airplane with the knowledge of stealth radar. This is 0,2% of the difficulty. Sharpening screws on universal machines is, of course, great knowledge. And to plant hookahs and jugs with a complex shape, made of copper, they have been able to do this for a couple of thousand years. Here, let them improve. The logic of a sick person. Since, all the same, they are not the first ones, let them drag what they have. And, since they do not buy in the world, give a lot for free. And cho, we still lose a little.