Mitsubishi Space Jet vs. Superjet: the Japanese lost outright

December 2 2021 27

In October, the 11th since the beginning of this year, the Russian medium-haul narrow-body airliner Sukhoi Superjet 100 took to the skies. Almost at the same time, the Mitsubishi SpaceJet project was closed in Japan.

It is worth noting that 10 years ago, a car from the Land of the Rising Sun was considered the main competitor of our liner in the struggle for a corresponding niche in the world market. However, despite the successes in mechanical engineering and electronics, the Japanese aircraft lost outright to our SSJ 100.

As of today, 216 Superjets have already taken off in Russia, while 8 built by Mitsubishi SpaceJets will remain on the ground forever.

During the development of the Japanese aircraft, a number of problems were identified, including an insufficiently strong wing and an unfinished landing gear. Numerous engineering miscalculations eventually resulted in the corporation in 15 years of work and 10 billion US dollars. At the same time, the aircraft did not pass certification in the States.

Unlike its competitor, our Sukhoi Superjet 100 has been successfully certified in both the US and the EU. In addition, domestic engineers spent only 8 years and about $ 2 billion on its development.

It is worth noting that the SSJ 100 was originally designed as an export vehicle. It used many foreign (including American) components and assemblies. This fact, on the one hand, was beneficial to our aircraft, simplifying the process of its certification. However, there is also a significant disadvantage in this - the Sukhoi Superjet has become dependent on the US Treasury, which at any time can prohibit its deliveries to one of the countries under sanctions.

However, the last problem is being solved right now. The government allocated about 18,5 billion rubles for import substitution of components and assemblies with which our liner was certified. It is expected that this step will increase the share of domestic components in the car to 60%, and most importantly, get rid of American dependence.

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Alexndr p

+4

2 December 2021 11: 37

Mykola disagrees. The Russian economy at mykola and steelmaker with gorenina is torn to pieces. And this is all Kremlin propaganda (c)

The Russians made a medium-range aircraft for 2 billion and produced a large series. It's really cool. Soon the engine will be ours. Is this not an indicator of the economy? He is.

And these our sad people need to pour vodka, let them be sad in the corner. How many of them wrote about SSJ in the negative. And as usual, straight into your trousers. But okay, Mykola - and when local clowns and clownwomen whine against the background of successful projects - this is generally the bottom. I despise such degraded infantiles.

PS Now Mykola will get some kind of argument from the trousers about the fact that America has ...

PPS Can you imagine what would have happened if Russia had not been impeded by sanctions and the closure of sales markets? We are cool)

Therefore, our opposition hums in the stall, because it lives in isolation from reality - in its miserable world - and the people of Russia have defined a framework for this deranged herd - and every election brings this reality to its nose
1. Marzhecki
  
  -3
  
  2 December 2021 15: 02
  
  The Russians made a medium-range aircraft for 2 billion and produced a large series. It's really cool. Soon the engine will be ours. Is this not an indicator of the economy? He is.
  
  Short-haul. Designer from Western components.
  1. Alexndr p
    
    +2
    
    2 December 2021 18: 27
    
    Designer from Western components.
    
    the Japanese have not mastered the constructor? write some sedition to the western high-tech world
    1. Marzhecki
      
      -4
      
      2 December 2021 18: 28
      
      I am not interested in the problems of the Japanese. I am interested in the situation in my country.
      1. Alexndr p
        
        +3
        
        2 December 2021 18: 29
        
        I am not interested in the problems of the Japanese. I am interested in the situation in my country.
        
        how hackneyed it is), however, they were not surprised) I wrote in the comments about you like that)
        
        Marzhecki
        
        -4
        
        2 December 2021 18: 31
        
        There are no others like me here. I am incomparable
        
        Alexndr p
        
        +2
        
        2 December 2021 18: 31
        
        aha) everything is exactly like that
  2. FrankyStein
    
    0
    
    4 December 2021 01: 13
    
    On the other hand, the plane flies, flaws are identified, the logistics are debugged, then the engine, components are carefully replaced, into a ready-made plane with a market. Such a Trojan horse. And already its own ms 21. That is, two different attempts to integrate into the market.
2. Cherry
  
  +3
  
  2 December 2021 15: 57
  
  can you imagine what would have happened if Russia had not been impeded by sanctions
  
  And nothing would have happened: "Ku-ka-re-ku! Reign, lying on your side!" Until thunder breaks out ... etc.
3. gunnerminer
  
  -4
  
  3 December 2021 17: 00
  
  Soon the engine will be ours
  
  Soon.
  
  Where did you see the opposition in Russia? Everything was trampled down 20 years ago. It is not sanctions and the closure of markets that impede Russian development. Who closed the domestic market and brought down the income of Russians? Why is the Russian domestic market unattractive for the PRC, for investors? Why are they not investing in modernization? KNAAZ, to the Amur Shipyard, to the Dalzavod shipyard, to the North-East Repair Center?
Sergey Zemskov

-7

2 December 2021 12: 38

Remind - what debts did the SSJ project bring to the budget? When will the money return to the treasury?
How many SSJs are sold to foreign customers? Or only to the state for receipts from the Ministry of Finance? Is this a business? Who benefits from this?
Of course, the billionaire Manturov, who, according to the results of the year, will buy another business for himself (he has already acquired real estate for several billions, a network of gas stations). Only he does not buy shares of companies in his sector - he does not believe!
And show how SSJ is profitable for operators - where are the numbers?
1. Cherry
  
  +1
  
  2 December 2021 15: 58
  
  How many SSJs are sold to foreign customers?
  
  Don't you need it?
  1. gunnerminer
    
    -3
    
    3 December 2021 12: 22
    
    With orders from "Sukhoi" immediately encountered difficulties. Largely because, recalls the former head of the Aeroflot fleet planning service Sergei Koltovich, the Sukhoi management did not hear well the air carriers, refusing to understand what kind of aircraft they needed. 130-seat Airbus and Boeing are more profitable for companies than the 100-seat SSJ100. Without guessing the profile of the aircraft, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCA) quickly fell into a pre-bankruptcy state: by the summer of 2013, their debts to VEB, VTB and Western banks exceeded $ 2 billion. Even in the best years, the global demand for such aircraft in the world did not exceed 100 per year, and now it has fallen by half.
    
    In addition to frequent breakdowns and regular returns to the airport of departure, the main problem of the SSJ100 is the lack of spare parts. There are so few really flying machines that the creation of technical centers for their operation does not justify itself. At the same time, the manufacturer releases all new aircraft to the maximum, and the market for them all the time lacks spare parts. It was assumed that after launching into commercial operation, the state would no longer support the production of the SSJ100. But the creation of service centers is ultimately also subsidized by the state (2018 billion rubles were spent on this in 1, another 2019 billion is planned in 2020-3,6). And all the same, the lack of timely service support makes the operation of this aircraft unprofitable for airlines in terms of the ratio of aircraft capacity, cost of ownership and operation. It can take 30-80 days to wait for spare parts. This is what makes the airlines abandon the liner.
2. 123
  
  +3
  
  2 December 2021 19: 43
  
  And show how SSJ is profitable for operators - where are the numbers?
  
  Azimut Airlines is convenient for assessment, there are only SSJs in the fleet. 2019 ...
  
  Azimut Airlines, which operated its first regular commercial flight in September 2017, reached operating breakeven in the third quarter of 2019. Vitaly Vantsev, the co-owner of the air carrier, announced this on the air of the Russia-24 TV channel.
  
  https://aviation21.ru/aviakompaniya-azimut-s-samolyotami-ssj100-vyshla-na-bezubytochnost/
  
  This is for 2020 ... They worked without loss. One of the few. The times are far from easy for airlines. And in our country and abroad, they simply survive. And they receive state support. Both here and abroad.
  https://www.rbc.ru/business/20/03/2021/6054a6529a7947f8bee3c248
  1. gunnerminer
    
    -2
    
    3 December 2021 12: 15
    
    The founders of the CCL will not receive profits from the closure of the Japanese project.
    1. 123
      
      +4
      
      3 December 2021 18: 45
      
      The founders of the CCL will not receive profits from the closure of the Japanese project.
      
      Potential competitor to FSE.
      1. gunnerminer
        
        -5
        
        3 December 2021 19: 13
        
        SSZ is not a competitor. It is not exported. Mr. Chemezov will have to buy SSZ on his not weak salary. A deal with Red Wing, which is part of the Rostec structure, like the Dry Plant. The SSZ will not carry Japanese passengers. The Japanese know that the creators and organizers of the SSJ-100 have questions: firstly, how could they not provide the aircraft with normal technical support and service, and how did it happen that the cost of an operating hour is 1350usd / hour, when competitors have 850usd / hour? Nobody bought it of their own free will. Half of the 200 built ones fly with difficulty - the rest are either returned back or broken, and are scrambling for spare parts. Moreover, most of this illiquid asset is simply donated - plus the state will compensate for billions of dollars in losses, like azimuth or Iraero. That is, this deeply unprofitable looser is sponsored from our pockets.
AND

+1

2 December 2021 15: 07

Quote: Sergey Zemskov
Remind - what debts did the SSJ project bring to the budget? When will the money return to the treasury?
How many SSJs are sold to foreign customers? Or only to the state for receipts from the Ministry of Finance? Is this a business? Who benefits from this?
Of course, the billionaire Manturov, who, according to the results of the year, will buy another business for himself (he has already acquired real estate for several billions, a network of gas stations). Only he does not buy shares of companies in his sector - he does not believe!
And show how SSJ is profitable for operators - where are the numbers?

Remind me of what debts the SSJ project brought? Namely: where are the numbers? Continuous propaganda ...
1. gunnerminer
  
  -2
  
  3 December 2021 12: 20
  
  Well, even the steppe ground squirrels understand that the SSJ is supported by subsidies, and for those who do not get money, they shy away from it like hell. In fact, in 2003-2010, the federal budget spent 100 billion rubles on SSJ16,9, another 27 billion was attracted from private sources (airline funds, bank loans). In total, according to various estimates, at least $ 100 billion was spent on the SSJ2 (total costs can be up to $ 7 billion). It is impossible to estimate precisely, because, for example, in 2015, the Aircraft Corporation (UAC) received 100 billion rubles from the budget, which went mainly to Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCA), the manufacturer of SSJ100. But how exactly the funds were distributed within the KLA is unknown. Already in 2011, just to "recoup" the invested funds, the SCAC had to sell 350 liners. So many of them have not been sold to this day.
  The release of the aircraft was delayed. The first car appeared in 2011 instead of 2008; in 2012, we entered production of two per month, although the SCAC had contracts for more than one and a half hundred aircraft. Nevertheless, in 2009, the SCAC planned to sell almost 2024 liners by 1000 and get almost $ 3 billion in profit. By 2015, it was assumed that the SCA would sell 50 SSJ100 per year and Russia would conquer 5% of the world civil aviation market.
2. gunnerminer
  
  -2
  
  3 December 2021 12: 21
  
  In reality, by October 2018, 174 aircraft had been built, of which 148 were handed over to customers (including 50 to Aeroflot). But even Aeroflot is in service at the same time, at best, only half of the liners - the rest are under repair. And Aeroflot buys these planes, complaining about their quality, only because he was told to support the domestic aviation industry, and in return he was given benefits. Aeroflot was extended the right to collect money from foreign carriers for flights over Russia, allowed to commission a dozen Boeing 777s duty-free, and the SSJ100 itself went to it at a price of $ 19 million instead of $ 28 million - that is, the SCA sold them at a loss. In addition, Sukhoi promised to help Aeroflot obtain government subsidies to pay lease payments, which is why the companies were later sued (Aeroflot lost the claim). The largest buyer of its aircraft, the State Transport Leasing Company, is also suing Sukhoi (due to the disruption of the delivery period).
  
  https://www.forbes.ru/biznes/369371-grazhdanskie-samolety-suhogo-poluchili-isk-ot-goszakazchika
AND

+2

3 December 2021 13: 56

Quote: gunnerminer
In reality, by October 2018, 174 aircraft had been built, of which 148 were handed over to customers (including 50 to Aeroflot). But even Aeroflot is in service at the same time, at best, only half of the liners - the rest are under repair. And Aeroflot buys these planes, complaining about their quality, only because he was told to support the domestic aviation industry, and in return he was given benefits. Aeroflot was extended the right to collect money from foreign carriers for flights over Russia, allowed to commission a dozen Boeing 777s duty-free, and the SSJ100 itself went to it at a price of $ 19 million instead of $ 28 million - that is, the SCA sold them at a loss. In addition, Sukhoi promised to help Aeroflot obtain government subsidies to pay lease payments, which is why the companies were later sued (Aeroflot lost the claim). The largest buyer of its aircraft, the State Transport Leasing Company, is also suing Sukhoi (due to the disruption of the delivery period).

https://www.forbes.ru/biznes/369371-grazhdanskie-samolety-suhogo-poluchili-isk-ot-goszakazchika

Do you have anything to say about the case? Can you help a patriot?
1. gunnerminer
  
  -5
  
  3 December 2021 15: 13
  
  The doctrine "Perestroika can only be discussed by Raisa Maksimovna" is known to me.
AND

+1

3 December 2021 21: 02

Quote: gunnerminer
The doctrine "Perestroika can only be discussed by Raisa Maksimovna" is known to me.

That's always the way ... As soon as they say enough to talk, help better solve the problems if any ... and he immediately goes to the euro-bushes as usual. Chatting to the public and nothing more ...
1. gunnerminer
  
  -3
  
  4 December 2021 12: 17
  
  As soon as they say enough chatting, help better solve the problems if there are any ... and he immediately goes to the euro-bushes as usual
  
  Who to help? UAC officials? Have you seen their speeches? Do you think that they can take someone's advice? Do you know how they ended up in their current positions? Who were they before? It’s not funny yourself? There is either a former brother or a former employee FSB.
Sofa division

+1

3 December 2021 21: 06

Quote: Marzhetsky
Short-haul. Designer from Western components.

In October, the 11th since the beginning of this year, the Russian medium-haul narrow-body airliner Sukhoi Superjet 100.
AND

+1

4 December 2021 12: 45

Quote: gunnerminer
As soon as they say enough chatting, help better solve the problems if there are any ... and he immediately goes to the euro-bushes as usual

Who to help? UAC officials? Have you seen their speeches? Do you think that they can take someone's advice? Do you know how they ended up in their current positions? Who were they before? It’s not funny yourself? There is either a former brother or a former employee FSB.

If there is no one to help, why bother here then? Go straight to the presidency ... if you are afraid of fictitious "officials and lads" or, better, go to your Europe, telerants will be more needed there.
Denis radish

0

9 December 2021 09: 17

Russia will be able to move forward only if it opposes itself to the rest of the World! At the same time, it is important to follow just one simple principle: do not always be the best, but always strive to be the best!