After the completion of the construction of the SP-2, Putin will be able to raise the issue of Donbass point-blank


Against the background of all recent events, it seems that Nord Stream 2 has always existed. As well as the problems associated with it. But this is far from the case. Now many people forget that the SP-2 project was launched only in February 2017, when Nord Stream 2 AG (100% of shares belong to PJSC Gazprom) signed an agreement with the Swiss company Allseas, which owns unique pipe-laying vessels, for laying the underwater part gas pipeline. In April 2017, five more European companies entered the project in equal shares (1 billion euros each) - French ENGIE, Austrian OMV, British-Dutch Royal Dutch Shell and two German Uniper and Wintershall, which signed an agreement with Nord Stream 2 AG on long-term financing of the project in a 50/50 ratio. And only after that, in September 2018, the first pipes lay on the bottom of the Gulf of Finland.


Soon it will be 3 years since the money of the European partners, as well as of Gazprom, is buried at the bottom of the Baltic Sea. The total cost of the project is about $ 11 billion. Moreover, Gazprom's money is only $ 5,5 billion, the same number of European partners, and another $ 5 billion are invested by them in the onshore infrastructure of the project (each country pays for itself) , the Czechs have already finished their ground-based continuation of the SP-2, the Austrians too, the Germans are finishing, there remains sheer nonsense! The same nonsense remained on the underwater part of the route (by the time I write these lines, just over 100 km, in Danish and German sections in total).

And at the time of 2014, there was no SP-2 at all. The capacities of the JV-1 available at that time (design capacity 55 billion cubic meters / year), the Ukrainian GTS (142,5 billion cubic meters / year) and the Yamal-EU gas pipeline (32,9 billion cubic meters / year) were quite enough in order to fulfill all of Gazprom's obligations to its European consumers. With only one amendment - Poland and Ukraine in every possible way obstructed the modernization of their GTS (Poland under the influence of American friends, and Ukraine, then with Yanukovych, bargaining with the Russian Federation, who will carry out this modernization and at whose expense). As a result, the idea of ​​bypass routes to Ukraine and Poland - South Stream and SP-2 - appeared. But South Stream was buried due to the efforts of Bulgaria, standing at gunpoint by the United States. We were also lucky that Erdogan took the time to hurry up and replace South Stream with Turkish, with a capacity of 31,5 billion cubic meters of gas per year, half of which goes to Turkey, half to Southern Europe (Bulgaria is now biting its lips, but late - her train left irrevocably). Problems with the SP-2 remained. And Donbass has become hostage to these problems.

Why Donbass became dependent on SP-2


After the start of the construction of the Crimean bridge, it became clear that Putin had no plans to seize all of Ukraine, he would not have taken the Donbass as much as possible, limiting himself only to Crimea, but it just so happened - the people rebelled, they had to take it under their protection and take over control. If after Debaltsev Ukraine went to implement Minsk-2, it might not have had to build any SP-2, the throughput capacity of the Ukrainian GTS was quite enough for Gazprom to fulfill its contractual obligations to European customers. But Poroshenko, and then Zelensky, who replaced him, sabotaged the implementation of the Minsk agreements in every possible way, and as an element of pressure on them, SP-2 arose, in the hope that when the content of Ukraine would completely fall on the shoulders of its overseas curators, both she and they would become more compliant.

In the meantime, from the budget of the Russian Federation for this in the period from 2020 to 2024, at least 7,2 billion dollars should be spent as payment for the transit of Russian gas through the Ukrainian GTS. And then this amount has become smaller, before the launch of the "Turkish Stream" at full capacity, the Russian Federation unfastened for the needs of Ukraine 2-3 billion dollars annually. Compare these figures with the costs of Gazprom for the construction of the SP-2 in order to understand the insignificance of these costs and not make Gazprom dependent on the implementation of this project. Germany is more interested in it, which then becomes the largest gas hub in Europe, and Ukraine, which, on the contrary, loses guaranteed income with its launch. For Russia, its significance is rather not economic, political character. With the launch of SP-2, her hands will be untied, and then she will be able to resolve the bleeding problem of Donbass, which has become hostage to the EU's gas supply.

Do not forget that at the time of 2014 the RF budget was export-oriented and 51% was formed through the sale of hydrocarbons. We must admit the truth in the words of the 44th US President Barack Obama, Russia in 2014 "was a gas station in Europe." Figuratively, of course. We supplied there not even gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for the production of these (crude oil), as well as gas for electricity and heat generating capacities of the EU, i.e. in other words, we supplied hydrocarbons. Europe was 36% dependent on them, and we were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports (the share of oil and gas revenues in the RF budget revenues in 2014 reached its maximum and stopped at 51,3%). The Kremlin could not cut off the main source of funds for the budget, so it was forced to get involved in the endless mess of Ukraine's implementation of Minsk-2, leading it to an independent exit from it, after which Moscow's hands would be untied. But Ukraine is still pulling the cat by the tail, not saying "yes" or "no", putting forward all the new impracticable demands. In this situation, the Kremlin found itself constrained in resolving Donbass issues, and that is why SP-2017 was launched in 2.

But how to explain this to the inhabitants of the LPR, who have been living in limbo between heaven and earth for the 7th year already? The situation there is just awful. For obvious reasons, many enterprises there are shut down, there is no sales, the products are not in demand. Those few enterprises that work are not able to pay high salaries to their employees, also for obvious reasons. And the prices for food there are comparable to those in Moscow, due to the fact that they are all supplied from the Big Earth. There is no work, there are no prospects either, which, despite the low tariffs for housing and communal services, leads to mass migration of the population, in fact to flight. Moreover, what is significant, a significant part of them leaves not for the Russian Federation, which would be natural, but for Ukraine, which suggests some thoughts of a completely non-patriotic nature (apparently, the Russian Federation is not at all interested in these people if it creates such problems for them that it is easier for them move to the Ukrainian territories with their well-known attitude to the political regime established there, rather than try to adapt in Russia). But the people defending the independence of the self-proclaimed republics at the front also do not understand what they are fighting for? Yes, they protect their homes and their loved ones, but should there be at least some purpose? One thing is the independence of the LDNR or joining the Russian Federation, and quite another thing is to keep everything as it is or even join Ukraine. Agree, for people who risk their lives every second, the goal is, frankly, little motivating, if not worse.

Even the last victory of the Kremlin, when by his actions he actually thwarted the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donbass, looks like a Pyrrhic victory for them. They agreed to go into the last and decisive battle, because a terrible end is better than an endless horror (especially since a terrible end was prepared not at all for the defenders of Donbass, but for their opponents), but Putin had other plans for this. This could lead to a general change in the entire disposition on the board. And then, together with Donbass, Putin risked taking for himself another half of Ukraine, with all the resulting bonuses in the form of disconnection from SWIFT, the economic embargo and the Iron Curtain-2.0 in general. Isn't the price too high for the LPNR annexation? Why would he have such victories ?!

SP-2 entered the final stage. Completion of construction this year


But against the backdrop of all this hopelessness, I also have joyful news for these people. Rumors have already leaked to the press that the builders of SP-2 faced certain difficulties when they crossed the SP-1 line (SP-2 intersects SP-1 in two places, the Swiss passed the first crossing, the second one will have to be passed by Russian pipelayers), they say, for this is what ships are needed for filling soil and stones at the intersection point, but there are none (foreigners are afraid, they have to drive their own). So, I inform you that nothing of this is needed, everything has already been poured in advance, when TUB "Fortuna" and KMTUS "Akademik Chersky" come to this point, they will pass it without even noticing.

Another obstacle to the project was the lawsuits of two German environmental organizations Deutsche Umwelthilfe (DUH) and the Union for the Conservation of Nature and Biodiversity (NABU) against Nord Stream 2 AG, challenging the permission issued to it by the German Federal Agency for Maritime and Hydrographic Management (BSH) for the completion of the unfinished section of the gas pipeline in the exclusive economic zone of Germany due to the fact that it "poses a threat to marine nature and fauna, and destroys the habitat of birds on the seabed with an area of ​​more than 16 football fields." This is the first time I've heard that birds live on the seabed! Well, okay, let's write it off on translation errors. BSH has already dismissed these claims as groundless. The two organizations have now applied to the Hamburg Administrative Court. At the time of consideration of the claim, BSH was forced to suspend the permit for laying the unfinished section of the gas pipeline.

All the spiteful critics of the project in Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic States and the United States have already happily thrown their caps into the air, and their German ecological pads, counting the money that fabulously suddenly fell on their accounts from overseas grants, just screwed up their eyes in embarrassment and said: “Well, what you, right? This is our responsibility! We cannot sleep, thinking how our birds will poop there, sitting on a Russian gas pipe ?! ”. I hasten to disappoint them. The decision of the German regulator BSH to temporarily suspend work in the German FEZ on the basis of another lawsuit by German environmentalists until the end of May does not matter for the work underway today, since the work is now being carried out in the Danish FEZ. Most likely, Nord Stream 2 AG will not even spend money on protesting the claims of NABU, because the ban is valid only until the end of May.

As of May 3, the pipe-laying barge Fortuna still has 8,4 km to lay in Danish waters, which will take ten days to complete in good weather. The crane-and-assembly pipe-laying vessel "Akademik Chersky" still has to plow and plow to the borders of Germany - 66,6 km. In the German free economic zone "Fortune" will have to reach 13,6 km, and "Akademik Chersky" - 14,4 km. So far, the only obstacle to their work is only bad weather.

The fact is that when the wind increases over 10 m / s for Chersky and over 8 m / s for Fortuna, they have to drop the pipe so as not to lead to an accident. The Swiss "Pioneering Spirit" could operate at a wind speed of 6 m / s, without reducing the laying speed (the maximum for it was 4,8 km / day), and did not drop the pipe at all. It should be borne in mind that it takes 12 hours for Chersky to lift the pipe, and almost a day for Fortuna (from the moment the hook operation starts to the start of the laying movement). In addition, the wave height (sea waves) also significantly affects the laying speed, I am not talking about the depth and topography of the bottom, wind direction, course to the wave, current speed, water density and the presence of floating algae. This spring, the weather at the place of laying is a disaster. Locals will not remember such a frequency of storm winds in April on the Pomeranian seaside. If the weather conditions allowed, the "Akademik Chersky" is capable of laying up to 3,15 km / day (with a wind speed of no more than 4 m / s), and "Fortuna" up to 1,21 km / day (with a wind of no more than 3 m /from). As the wind speed increases, the laying speed naturally decreases.

But be that as it may, this year we will finish SP-2. For "Akademik Chersky" the estimated time of completion of work is June 30, for "Fortune" - 15 days earlier, on June 15. When is a meeting between Putin and Biden scheduled for there? Second half of June? I think they will be in time by this time. That will add trump cards to Vladimir Vladimirovich's negotiating basket. After that, he will be able to put the question of Donbass squarely - either Biden's wards are officially leaving Minsk-2, which will allow Moscow to recognize the self-proclaimed republics, or options are possible. What kind? I think that even before 2024 the fate of Donbass will be decided and not in favor of Ukraine. With the completion of the SP-2 laying, the Kremlin's hands will be untied. That's all for me.
46 comments
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  1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 13 May 2021 09: 14
    +1
    Passed. They pulled the owl onto the globe. JV2 was tied to a completely outsider DLNR. Indistinct promises were voiced.
    "will be able to deliver", or may not deliver - as the coffee grounds will lie.

    Something it reminds ... promises before the elections? Just in the fall there will be
    1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
      kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 13 May 2021 12: 28
      +2
      Quote: Sergey Latyshev
      Passed. They pulled the owl onto the globe. JV2 was tied to a completely outsider DLNR. Indistinct promises were voiced.
      "will be able to deliver", or may not deliver - as the coffee grounds will lie.

      Why make mistakes, make predictions? It remains to wait 1,5 months before the end of construction, there it will be seen who pulled whom, promised and tied up.

      Quote: Sergey Latyshev
      Something it reminds ... promises before the elections?

      Before the elections, everyone and everywhere promises, here you are not original. Only until September should be completed and launched in test mode.
      Let's wait - we'll see!
      1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
        Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 13 May 2021 13: 59
        -1
        1) There is no doubt that they will build it.
        But wait if you want)))
        2) Even if they do not have time by September, they will finish building later.
        You don't even have to look - they will write and report on a silver platter ..

        But the LDNR has nothing to do with it, globally ...
  2. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 09: 42
    0
    Donbass will remain part of Ukraine. But it must be a different Ukraine. Recognition of Donbass or even Novorossia is a geopolitical defeat for Russia.
    1. kapitan92 Offline kapitan92
      kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 13 May 2021 12: 23
      +2
      Quote: Bakht
      Donbass will remain part of Ukraine. But it must be a different Ukraine.

      Which one? And who else will make it? laughing

      Quote: Bakht
      Recognition of Donbass or even Novorossia is a geopolitical defeat for Russia.

      What is this defeat? Share your thoughts.
      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 15: 14
        +3
        Recognition of Donbass is to leave ALL Ukraine to the Americans. Not even Europeans. This is pure defeat.
        Recognizing only New Russia is to leave half of Ukraine to the Americans. Not even Europeans. This is also a defeat. NATO tanks and missiles on the Dnieper. And Kiev will not be a Russian city.
        The correct decision is to reformat Ukraine through the deterioration of the social situation of the people living there. A cannibalistic plan? But this is the only way the West has been acting for the last hundred years. We must adopt the best practices.
        Reformatting should come from Donbass. And for this it is necessary to invest maximum in Donetsk and Lugansk. And stop the shelling at any cost. This is the minimum program.
        The program was voiced by Dugin a long time ago. Independent non-aligned federal Ukraine. And Donbass is needed so that Kiev remains "the mother of Russian cities."
        No one wants to agree that there are two peoples living in Ukraine. Some are brothers, some are not brothers.
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 May 2021 15: 46
          -6
          Quote: Bakht
          The correct decision is to reformat Ukraine through the deterioration of the social situation of the people living there.

          And do you think the citizens of Ukraine will gratefully rush into the arms of the Russian Federation for this?

          Quote: Bakht
          The program was voiced by Dugin a long time ago.

          Is it the one who is Eurasian? So he's a fascist. Do you share his views?
          Before Crimea, non-aligned status was spelled out in the constitution.
          1. Bakht Offline Bakht
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 15: 49
            +2
            I think most will be happy.
            Who said that Dugin is a fascist? You?
            What was written off in the Constitution was not implemented.
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 15: 50
              +1
              Alexander Gelevich Dugin - The author of the "fourth political theory", which, in his opinion, should be the next step in the development of politics after the first three: liberalism, socialism and fascism. Dugin's political activities are aimed at creating a Eurasian superpower through the integration of Russia with the former Soviet republics into the new Eurasian Union (EU).
            2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 May 2021 16: 34
              -5
              Quote: Bakht
              I think most will be happy.

              Is there any research or is this your personal opinion?

              Quote: Bakht
              Who said that Dugin is a fascist? You?

              Many who
              https://www.sova-center.ru/racism-xenophobia/discussions/2007/07/d11284/
              http://www.lander.odessa.ua/doc/laker-putinizm-rossiya-i-ee-budushchee-s-zapadom.pdf

              Quote: Bakht
              What was written off in the Constitution was not implemented.

              What was not done?
              1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 16: 46
                +3
                Are you completely unaware of what was happening in Ukraine? I'm not going to convince anyone. Many people here know very well that Ukraine went to NATO. Despite what was written in the Constitution. If you are not in the know, you can ask.
                Dugin is not a fascist. Who says what does not matter. If for you a Eurasianist and a fascist are one and the same, then Gumilyov is a fascist.
                The real fascists are now in power in Kiev. But you do not see this.
                What Dugin says about the policy towards Ukraine is quite justified. You would be better off concentrating on specific proposals and plans, and not on unfounded statements.
                1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                  Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 May 2021 21: 26
                  -6
                  Well, now it’s already yes, but until 14 it was a horror story, as Lukashenka did until recently. This is no longer the case.

                  Quote: Bakht
                  If for you a Eurasianist and a fascist are one and the same, then Gumilyov is a fascist.

                  Do you believe in the "biochemical energy" of passionarity? I'm not sure if it is possible to identify Gumilyov with the Eurasians.

                  Quote: Bakht
                  The real fascists are now in power in Kiev. But you do not see this.

                  Signs of fascism: authoritarianism, militarism, leaderism, anti-communism, the state is primary, nationalism, traditionalism, corporatism
                  the points

                  1 Authoritarianism - Ukraine is not an authoritarian state (unlike the Russian Federation)
                  2 Militarism - Of course, I don't follow the people of Ukraine, do cartoons also show how missiles fall in Miami?
                  3 Leadership - who is the leader in Ukraine? This is in the Russian Federation "There is Putin, there is Russia"
                  4 Anticommunism - the Communist Party is prohibited (in the Russian Federation, the Communist Party is allowed)
                  5 Anti-liberalism - clearly not (unlike the RF)
                  6 The state is primary - obviously not (in the Russian Federation, too, it seems so far)
                  7 Nationalism - they have a Jewish president, I think you can safely say no
                  8 Traditionalism - I'm not sure, there is support for the church (as well as in the Russian Federation), but I don't think it's critical.
                  9 Corporatism - I don’t know how in Ukraine, in the Russian Federation it blooms in a stormy color.

                  Ukraine does not pull fascism

                  Dugin:

                  ... Thus, the society that Russia needs should not have a representative democracy, there should not be a market society based on the monetary equivalent of all values, and there should not be an idiotic, unnatural, perverted ideology of human rights. Market, Democracy, Human Rights - Get Out!

                  During Great Lent you cannot listen to music, you cannot laugh, you cannot have fun and, in general, you cannot spend time meaninglessly. The only thing you can do is be sad. ... If something around us is not lean, not Orthodox, not sad, not sad, not realizing that during this period, for 40 days in an Orthodox country, there is a closure of such sources of joy, pleasure, pleasure. If we see some smiling or still giggling person, he insults our morality, we must gently, humanely stop him. At the same time, every Orthodox Christian should fast, but in no case should he reproach others who do not fast.

                  The sciences were invented by the direct ancestors of the globalists. Paul Feyrabend convincingly proved that the enlighteners - and especially Galileo Galilei - faked all their experiments. Science is based on PR, suggestion and counterfeiting. Science without religion is dead

                  The lessons of religion are, of course, a victory over people who have no position, over citizens who hate their homeland. This is the victory of people with a spiritual orientation over people who have no orientation other than decay and insanity.

                  Are you religious? I never would have thought.
                  1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 22: 32
                    +3
                    Until 2014, Ukraine confidently entered NATO. And this was not a horror story, but real plans to create bases (for example, in Sevastopol).
                    You are citing signs of fascism. In Ukraine, a Nazi coup took place and now inveterate nationalists are in power, who are fully identified with the Nazis. People who deny others the right to freedom. Any freedom. So don't bother quoting definitions. Do you like them? This is your business. You can sing hosanna to people who killed Jews, Russians and anyone who does not share their beliefs or of another race. You go straight to the monument to Bandera and Shukhevych. You can lay flowers. Ukrainian Nazis will love it.
                    You are quoting Dugin of the 90s. He has been saying something else for a long time. Everyone has a transformation. For example, A. Zinoviev was an anti-Stalinist, having matured he became a Stalinist. Dugin has a clear bias towards mysticism and religion. This I do not understand and do not accept. But his analysis of geopolitics is correct and accurate. By the way, he took the basis from Mackinder. Dugin has always been a Eurasian and opposed the Atlantists. This is the English autumn groove division.
                    I have always suspected that adherents of democratic freedoms often wear leather jackets with a Mauser in hand.
                    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 15 May 2021 14: 08
                      -4
                      Quote: Bakht
                      Until 2014, Ukraine confidently entered NATO. And this was not a horror story, but real plans to create bases (for example, in Sevastopol).

                      And now they got a not zero chance to get a base anywhere in the Sumy region, 500 km from Moscow. "Great plan! Regarding Sevastopol, do you know what the Montreux Convention is? In general, until the age of 14, Ukraine was economically more connected with the Russian Federation than with Europe, on this basis it would be possible to agree with any government in Ukraine. But let's call a spade a spade, the aggression of the Russian Federation crossed out economic priorities and brought security issues to the fore.

                      Quote: Bakht
                      You are citing signs of fascism. In Ukraine, a Nazi coup took place and now inveterate nationalists are in power, who are fully identified with the Nazis.

                      Who are identified with? You? We can walk along the lines of Nazism, especially since they practically coincide. The word fascism is now used in two meanings, the first is political science to denote political regimes with certain properties (listed above), the second is a curse, such as "radish", a bad person used to insult people or political movements that you do not like. It is clear that the second case has nothing to do with real fascism-Nazism. The political regime in Ukraine is neither fascist nor Nazi from a political point of view.

                      Quote: Bakht
                      People who deny others the right to freedom. Any freedom.

                      What are you talking about?

                      Quote: Bakht
                      So don't bother quoting definitions. Do you like them? This is your business. You can sing hosanna to people who killed Jews, Russians and anyone who does not share their beliefs or of another race. You go straight to the monument to Bandera and Shukhevych. You can lay flowers. Ukrainian Nazis will love it.

                      More often than not, I disagree with you, but I have always respected your opinion. But when you start talking nonsense, I start to think that I was mistaken in a person. Please, I beg you, don't talk any more nonsense.

                      Quote: Bakht
                      You are quoting Dugin of the 90s. He has been saying something else for a long time. Everyone has a transformation. For example, A. Zinoviev was an anti-Stalinist, having matured he became a Stalinist. Dugin has a clear bias towards mysticism and religion. This I do not understand and do not accept.

                      That is, in your opinion, Dugin was a fascist?
                      http://samlib.ru/c/cushero/dugine_nazbol.shtml
                      By the way, on the wiki, this emblem is signed as "A. Dugin's National Bolshevik Double-Headed Eagle"
                      How do you feel about NBP?
                      Bias is not the right word. If you want to build an Orthodox Iran in Russia, then you should go to Dugin.

                      Quote: Bakht
                      But his analysis of geopolitics is correct and accurate.

                      Do you know that in the Russian Federation (and the USSR) geopolitics is considered a pseudoscience? She also seems too mystical to me. Can you explain why control over the Heartland means control over the world (some kind of mysticism) and why the USSR, which almost completely controlled this very Heartland, did not become the controller of the world?

                      Quote: Bakht
                      This is the English autumn groove division.

                      Hmm .. What?

                      Quote: Bakht
                      I have always suspected that adherents of democratic freedoms often wear leather jackets with a Mauser in hand.

                      You are what?
                      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 15 May 2021 14: 32
                        +3
                        From the very first lines I see that you are putting the cart in front of the horse. And you don't know anything about Ukraine's aspirations to NATO. This program has been consistently implemented over the past 20 years. The exception was 2010-2014 under Yanukovych.
                        I don't see any aggression from Russia. When people are forbidden to speak their own language, this is a sign of Nazism and Fascism. For all the democratic values ​​adopted in the West, people have the right to free expression of their will and secession from a state in which their cultural rights are violated.

                        A fascist state was built in Ukraine. This is an indisputable fact. I don't even want to discuss the rest.

                        And the most important thing about geopolitics. NATO bases would be in Ukraine anyway. But now they are not there and in the near future they will not. Everyone understood perfectly well that there will be no NATO yabaza in Ukraine and Ukraine. This is a brilliant result.
                  2. Sergey Shpalenkov (Sergey Shpalenkov) 16 May 2021 10: 23
                    +1
                    1 Authoritarianism - Ukraine is not an authoritarian state (unlike the Russian Federation)

                    Of course it is !! Zelenskiy is increasingly emerging as an authoritarian leader. It is foolish to deny it is said by all sources in Ukraine. His actions bypassing the rule of law through the wild structure of the NSDC for the manual administration of the state will give 100 points ahead of our Darkest! At least he is a legist and Ze is an artist who does not understand that traffic rules cannot be violated.

                    2 Militarism - Of course, I don't follow the people of Ukraine, do cartoons also show how missiles fall in Miami?

                    I'm watching! :))) In Miami, rockets in cartoons do not fall on them, they fall on Rostov, Kursk, Moscow at the nuclear power plants of the Russian Federation on the Kubanb in the North Caucasus, and in general they threaten to reach Tyumen. They say COMPLETELY SERIOUSLY! This country and its military experts have no brakes, they have yet to get hold of them after our help, of course. Militarism in Ukraine will go off scale!

                    3 Leadership - who is the leader in Ukraine? This is in the Russian Federation "There is Putin, there is Russia"

                    Zelensky sesno! Before him, Poroshenko tried it is obvious! These promises are worth a lot. Zelensky rushing there without brakes. Constant vidosiki about the fate of the people rubs.

                    4 Anticommunism - the Communist Party is prohibited (in the Russian Federation, the Communist Party is allowed)

                    Laughing at your comparison, they say, there is no there, everything went on :))))) Yes, he is not just there, he is PRET! Absolutely idiotic, since it was the communists who augmented the territory of Ukraine and made it the largest industrial republic whose status, Thank God, it has already lost in 30 years.

                    5 Anti-liberalism - clearly not (unlike the RF)

                    Ha ha ha ha. I will not remain on your conscience about Russia. But anti-liberalism in Ukraine, or rather its denial, sorry, you just call black white without being embarrassed! Anti-liberalism in Ukraine is all of them for any modest question -Unas viina! We can do everything!

                    6 The state is primary - obviously not (in the Russian Federation, too, it seems so far)

                    There is a -Vira-mova-army. On every pillar!

                    7 Nationalism - they have a Jewish president, I think you can safely say no

                    Are you seriously claiming that the presence of a Jewish president is so guaranteed from? Yes, Israel will soon break diplomatic relations with Zelensky, especially after the Nazi march with SS flags in Kiev! The presence of Jewish blood is not at all an indicator of nationalism Zelensky is leading Ukraine to Nazism by leaps and bounds! It is so beneficial to him in general. That actually corresponds to his nationality more than anything else. And why did you decide that nationalism so strongly does not befit the Jews?

                    8 Traditionalism - I'm not sure, there is support for the church (as well as in the Russian Federation), but I don't think it's critical.

                    Critical critical! An outspoken state run-up on the cloak of the church and the transfer of all gingerbreads to another hastily created for their tasks.

                    9 Corporatism - I don’t know how in Ukraine, in the Russian Federation it blooms in a stormy color.

                    What is not there is not. But this is the specificity of Ukraine, the fight of cats in the trash heap is going on non-stop.

                    Ukraine is completely and completely fascist state, my dear! By ALL signs!
                2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                  Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 15 May 2021 16: 49
                  -2
                  Quote: Bakht
                  If for you a Eurasianist and a fascist are one and the same, then Gumilyov is a fascist.

                  https://www.gumilev-center.ru/dugin-ehto-ne-evrazijjstvo/
                  What do you think of this article?
                  1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 15 May 2021 18: 02
                    +2
                    I think nothing. I am not interested in Yuri Kofman's opinion.

                    And why do you need my opinion if I write nonsense?
                    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 15 May 2021 18: 16
                      -3
                      Quote: Bakht
                      I think nothing. I am not interested in Yuri Kofman's opinion.

                      The opinion is clear, but what about the arguments? Does it bother you that Lev Gumelev's followers disown Dugin and call him a fascist?

                      Quote: Bakht
                      And why do you need my opinion if I write nonsense?

                      What I write "hosanna to people who killed Jews, Russians and anyone who does not share their beliefs or other race" is a lie and nonsense. I am simply asking you to refrain from such nonsense and lies in the future.
                      1. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 15 May 2021 18: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: Oleg Rambover
                        I am simply asking you to refrain from such nonsense and lies in the future.

                        Oleg Rambover... You can sing hosanna to the people who destroyed Jews, Russians, or you can not sing - this is your business. yes

                        All the same, you remain a dodgy deceiver. To be honest, your practices based on distorting the words and thoughts of people arguing with you are disgusting and clearly visible.

                        PS Maybe you and my phrase:

                        You can sing hosanna to people who killed Jews, Russians ...

                        specially said here again, use it to your advantage, laughing
                        and say that all this is nonsense and you are not singing an ode to the Nazis?
                        I warn you right away, you are talking nonsense.
                      2. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 15 May 2021 19: 45
                        +2
                        I read Dugin. And I don't see any contradictions in his analysis. Unlike his accusers. The most fascists are those who call themselves liberals. The most ardent denouncer of Dugin is Henri Levy. An obvious fascist, although he is the banner of liberalism. The term is not the most important. More important than action.
                        I do not write lies and nonsense. I am writing that you are defending the fascists in Ukraine. That is, those who glorify Bandera and Shukhevych.
                        Speaking in politically correct language, you obviously have double standards. Saying to the Russian common people, "Either put on your panties, or take off the cross."
                      3. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 17 May 2021 21: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Bakht
                        I read Dugin. And I don't see any contradictions in his analysis.

                        I listened to him more, he was broadcasting on YouTube in Constantinople, It seems they were covered. There are many contradictions to my ideas about the world.



                        For example here. Sacred physics, it's cool. There is no god in modern ...

                        Quote: Bakht
                        The most fascists are those who call themselves liberals.

                        Can you substantiate this? I don't think so.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        The most ardent denouncer of Dugin is Henri Levy. An obvious fascist, although he is the banner of liberalism. The term is not the most important. More important than action.

                        Who is a fascist for you? As I understand it, you understand by this term something of your own.
                        I listened to their discussion, it is interesting. I look forward to your understanding of fascism to understand what you are presenting to Henri Levy.
                        More from Dugin
                        http://arcto.ru/public/consp1.htm#15

                        But this concerned, of course, only the “red” Eurasians. “White” Eurasians in Europe joined mostly German nationalists, and we find representatives of this Order in the Abwehr, and later in the foreign sectors of the SS and SD (especially the SD, whose chief Heydrich himself was a convinced Eurasian, which is why he fell victim to the Atlantist intrigue Canaris).

                        I have already sent you a link
                        http://samlib.ru/c/cushero/dugine_nazbol.shtml
                        There are not some accusers here, but Dugin himself is singing hosanna to fascism.

                        Note: not a faded, brownish-pinkish national capitalism, but the dazzling dawn of a new Russian Revolution, fascism is boundless, like our lands, and red like our blood.

                        And after that you will argue that Dugin is not a fascist?
                        Or is it another?
                        I certainly hope for an answer, but for some reason you have recently developed a manner not to answer uncomfortable questions.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        I do not write lies and nonsense. I am writing that you are defending the fascists in Ukraine. That is, those who glorify Bandera and Shukhevych.

                        For some reason you persist in your lies and nonsense. It's easy to check. Give a link where I write "Hosanna to people who exterminated Jews, Russians and anyone who does not share their beliefs or other race." Without this, your statement is nonsense and a lie.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        Speaking in politically correct language, you obviously have double standards. Saying to the Russian common people, "Either put on your panties, or take off the cross."

                        What are the double standards? What crosses, what panties. Well, why, I do not understand why you are saying this nonsense?
                      4. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 May 2021 23: 45
                        +1
                        I don't answer because I don't see the point. You clung to Dugin's word and declared that he was a fascist. I do not think so. This is your and my subjective opinion. It is impossible to convince. Therefore, I do not argue. Henri Levy, the so-called liberal, called for the bombing of Yugoslavia, supported Shamil Basayev, and actively participated in the Maidan. Noted in Libya, Syria. Wherever he appeared, blood was shed. But ... a democrat and a liberal. Not a fascist in any way. You choose quotes from Wikipedia, and I look at his actions. This is our difference. Henri Bernard Levy is a real fascist, whatever he calls himself.
                        About the panties and the cross. Does Russia have the right to protect Russians in Ukraine? According to Western patterns, it has every right. Does Russia have the right to destroy the bases of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Ukraine? By Israeli standards, it has every right. A citizen of a country that ignores UN decisions and violates international law has no moral right to condemn Russia in the Ukrainian crisis.
                        Dugin is absolutely right that it is necessary to have a neutral Ukraine without splitting it into East, West and Center. And everything that you have spoken here about his fascism and so on has nothing to do with geopolitics.
                        I really don't see any point in polemics.
                        As for the fact that you support the Nazis in Kiev, I am also absolutely right. I have never seen you condemn the Nazi marches in Ukraine. Apparently, they suit you.
                      5. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 20 May 2021 01: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: Bakht
                        You clung to Dugin's word and declared that he was a fascist.

                        Hooked on his words? You will deny that in the above link he is singing hosanna to fascism. Will you deny that he is the ideologue of the Nazi movement NBP? This man was a member of the "Black Order of the SS" organization.
                        What is his conservative revolution, we can observe the example of IS (banned in the Russian Federation). Do you want something similar in RF?
                        He is an obscurantist

                        The development of cosmonautics is a loathsome and shameful thing. This is a classic globalist utopia that anticipates the coming of the Antichrist. Space is an illusion. We must be faithful to Christ and the Russian land. I do not approve of patriots' flirting with modernization. Will not end well

                        Quote: Bakht
                        Henri Levy, the so-called liberal, called for the bombing of Yugoslavia, supported Shamil Basayev, and actively participated in the Maidan. Noted in Libya, Syria. Wherever he appeared, blood was shed. But ... a democrat and a liberal.

                        I didn’t follow Levi’s activities, in general I heard about him for the first time in the context of a discussion with Dugin. But judging by the articles in “patriotic” publications, a myth like Soros is being created around him. I am sure that if I ask you to provide some specifics with links, you will instantly be blown away. Do you think he gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia?

                        Quote: Bakht
                        Not a fascist in any way. You choose quotes from Wikipedia, and I look at his actions. This is our difference. Henri Bernard Levy is a real fascist, whatever he calls himself.

                        Fascism, as a movement, has some signs and Dugin clearly falls under them. I understand that you have a personal dislike for Levy, but your dislike is not a criterion for fascism, even if he eats Christian babies for breakfast is not a sign of fascism. You use the word fascism as a kind of curse, an insult, but this word has a specific political science meaning. And from the point of view of political scientists, Dugin is a fascist, while Levy is not.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        About the panties and the cross. Does Russia have the right to protect Russians in Ukraine? According to Western patterns, it has every right. Does Russia have the right to destroy the bases of the Ukrainian Armed Forces? By Israeli standards, it has every right.

                        Hmm .. Precisely Russian? Are you a nationalist? Judging by the position of the Russian Federation on the Syrian conflict, it is against interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign state, even for humanitarian reasons. If you think the policy of double standards is acceptable for Russia, then yes, probably. But you know, I was in Kiev on a business trip in 18, I didn't notice anything like that, almost everyone speaks Russian to each other and half of the television broadcasts in Russian. And what, terrorists are being sent from the territory of Ukraine and shelling?

                        Quote: Bakht
                        A citizen of a country that ignores UN decisions and violates international law has no moral right to condemn Russia in the Ukrainian crisis.

                        What is this for you? Have you heard nonsense again? I am a citizen of the Russian Federation if that.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        Dugin is absolutely right that it is necessary to have a neutral Ukraine without splitting it into East, West and Center.

                        I have not read what Dugin said about Ukraine there, but another well-known geopolitician Brzezinski said that Russia without Ukraine cannot be an empire.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        And everything that you have spoken here about his fascism and so on has nothing to do with geopolitics.

                        Maybe it has nothing to do with the pseudoscience of geopolitics, but if you only bothered to master a couple of lines using these links
                        http://rossia3.ru/ideolog/nashi/targetem
                        http://rossia3.ru/programma.html
                        http://samlib.ru/c/cushero/dugine_nazbol.shtml
                        A blind man would have noticed that it is fascism that Dugin hides under his fourth theory. And before he did not even hide it.

                        Quote: Bakht
                        As for the fact that you support the Nazis in Kiev, I am also absolutely right. I have never seen you condemn the Nazi marches in Ukraine. Apparently, they suit you.

                        You are a liar. I asked you to provide confirmation of your statement that I sing "Hosanna to people who destroyed Jews, Russians and anyone who does not share their beliefs or of another race" I, too, have never seen your condemnation of the march of Russian Natsiks, fascist Dugin, Nazi Milchakov, NBP Limonov, RNU Barkashev, Slavic Union, etc. Are you a neo-Nazi? Or are you a citizen of Ukraine and their problems are closer to you? These are no better than the Ukrainian Bandera. The essence is the same, fascist nationalism. Although Dugin certainly stands out against this background.

                        And by the way, about crosses and panties, as well as double standards. Stalin's struggle against cosmopolitanism, Polish, Greek, Iranian and other operations in 37 and the eviction of peoples, as I understand it for you something else? Not fascism? And what, let me be curious, is different?
    2. Fourth Horseman Offline Fourth Horseman
      Fourth Horseman (Fourth Horseman) 14 May 2021 07: 36
      +1
      Yes, you spat on your constitution, long before the Crimea.
      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 14 May 2021 11: 19
        -3
        Well, yes, there are problems with the observance of the constitution in Russia, I agree. The authorities do not want to comply with Article 31 in any way.
        1. Fourth Horseman Offline Fourth Horseman
          Fourth Horseman (Fourth Horseman) 14 May 2021 13: 43
          +1
          When there is nothing to say, it remains only to translate the arrows.))
          Glory to the Ukrainian switchmen!
          1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 14 May 2021 14: 45
            -3
            I understand that you, as a citizen of Ukraine, are more concerned about the problems of Ukraine. But, forgive me, as a citizen of the Russian Federation, I am more worried about the problems of the Russian Federation.
            1. Fourth Horseman Offline Fourth Horseman
              Fourth Horseman (Fourth Horseman) 14 May 2021 22: 03
              +1
              Well, of course!
              All seluks love, on behalf of the citizens of Russia, to write comments on the Internet.
              1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 14 May 2021 23: 33
                -3
                I don't care what you think there. These are absolutely your problems, believe me or not.
                1. Restless Sagittarius (Vladimir) 16 May 2021 10: 50
                  +4
                  So we are not interested in what Okraintsy like you think in the Russian Federation and in the territories of Russia temporarily occupied by your Outskirts. it's not up to you ...
  • Breard Offline Breard
    Breard (Serg) 13 May 2021 20: 19
    +2
    For the people of this territory today, after 6 years of war and no peace, I think it does not matter. Donbass will remain peaceful and prosperous Donbass, with smiling people, regardless of whether it will formally relate to Ukraine, Little Russia or Russia.
    And this can happen only if there is no fascist government in Kiev.
    Although the reality is that the Americans and "Europeans" are not interested in this, which means that you just need to add EVERYTHING! eastern Ukraine to Russia.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 22: 37
      +1
      All Eastern Ukraine

      Question. Who will get Central Ukraine? Well, the western one will go west. And who will sit in Kiev? Or will there be NATO's forward headquarters?
      One more question. Not to you. To those who call for the introduction of troops into the Donbass. How can this be done purely technically? Start a war?
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 13 May 2021 12: 57
    +2
    Quote: kapitan92
    What is this defeat? Share your thoughts.

    It was a defeat to leave Ukraine entirely to the Americans. Recognition of Novorossiya is the minimization of damage from total defeat. There will be downsides, but this is the lesser of evils.
    PS
    DPR, LPR, SP-2 and Turpotok are the products of a very unwise decision to take Crimea and leave the rest of Ukraine to the United States. They are connected only in this. All the rest is sly planning. No one in the Kremlin is clearly ready to fight the root cause of the problem.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 15: 22
      +4
      Minimizing damage is also a defeat.
      Crimea is a reflexive reaction of the military to a complete "paragraph". But you know better than me the chronology of the end of February 2014. The correct decision would be to support Yanukovych and send troops at his request. But, in the first place, he turned out to be a coward. And secondly, who didn’t let him go to Kharkov or Donetsk? The very ones who are now demanding that Russia get involved in a full-scale war. So most of the blame lies not with Moscow, but with Donetsk.
      Yes, there were many mistakes. But something else surprises me. The same people write that the task of the West is to drag Russia into the war and immediately propose to send troops to Donbass. Is this not a war?
      Never do what your opponent wants you to do. Russia is shifting the burden of supporting Ukraine to the West. They had not expected this.
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 13 May 2021 17: 49
        +1
        Minimizing damage is also a defeat.

        Naturally. We were defeated in Ukraine. But you can make it incomplete by taking Novorossiya. This will allow you to replay a lot of what I have written about many times.

        And secondly, who didn’t let him go to Kharkov or Donetsk? The very ones that are now demanding that Russia get involved in a full-scale war. So most of the blame lies not with Moscow, but with Donetsk.

        Who are you talking about? Yanyk wrote a request to send troops. The Kremlin did not use it. What does Donetsk have to do with it? It is believed that Kernes and Dobkin were the first to arrive in Moscow in February 2014, right after the Maidan, to talk about returning to the Russian Federation. Kharkiv could become Russian before Crimea. Not useful.

        The same people write that the task of the West is to drag Russia into the war and immediately propose to send troops to Donbass. Is this not a war?
        Never do what your opponent wants you to do.

        The West is just happy with everything that Putin is doing in the Ukrainian direction. What they don't want there is a serious war for Ukraine.

        Russia is shifting the burden of supporting Ukraine to the West. They did not expect this.

        What kind of nonsense? What is such a burden she is shifting? This is when the onerous transit agreement was signed by Gazprom?
        As a result, the stupid idea of ​​building a bypass SP-2 will result in Russia also repairing the Ukrainian GTS at its own expense, and the work of SP-2, half of its capacity, will be linked to the "peace" in Ukraine. I.e. Putin tied his own hands at his own expense.
        1. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 13 May 2021 19: 22
          +1
          I do not agree with you on any point. Yanukovych flew to Kharkov. His 22 was not allowed into either Kharkov or Donetsk. I do not pretend to be true, here is the information. There is also about Dobkin. Yes, they went to Moscow and returned immediately. Kernes and Dobkin immediately rushed to Kolomoisky and extinguished Kharkov.

          http://m.ruspravda.info/Kak-ubivali-YAnukovicha-4618.html

          What the West wants is the West knows. But all of Ukraine must be returned (possibly with the exception of the western regions). You have to throw the bone to Poland, Hungary and Romania.

          Regarding the SP-2. I have already written many times. This is not the stupidest, but the only correct decision. The stupidest thing was to conclude a transit agreement until 2024.
        2. Petr Vladimirovich (Peter) 13 May 2021 19: 34
          0
          "What kind of nonsense?"
          Dear Sergey Evgenievich! Well, not comme il faut, right-word ... sad
    2. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
      Just a cat (Bayun) 13 May 2021 20: 41
      +1
      No one in the Kremlin is clearly ready to fight the root cause of the problem.

      propose otgenocidit "Ukrainian scientists"? laughing
      It looks like Putin has chosen an intensive path of evolution. who does not grow wiser he will die out. Now there the pension fund has begun to limp ... If the United States is trying to digest African Americans, then Russia will have to do the same with the "Ukrainian Russians."
  • Radziminsky Victor (Radziminsky Victor) 13 May 2021 23: 02
    +1
    "Putin" cannot put anything on the edge - because the West will not give a reason for
    military operation in Donbass and southern Ukraine.
    And stop moaning about a possible friendly government in Ukraine.
    Britain and the United States tightly control all political and military processes in this territory.
    The CIA and MI6 will not allow (for the next 30 years) anyone anti-NATO and anti-American in Ukraine to break through to power.
    Even if there are 15-20 million Ukrainians left.
    Ukraine has been turned into a permanent base, with a large human resource, for terrorist and any subversive activities within Russia.
    The United States-Britain has already invested billions in the "Ukraine project" and will continue to invest billions.

    And now about different supplies and "flows.
    Can the US-NATO (if they want) cut off the "flows" and lower the Economic Curtain -
    in the event of military action by Russia in the Donbas? - They can.
    And without a war in Donbass? - They can too. If they decide to seriously drown Europe and shake
    economy of Russia.
    They will create a "loud event" - provocation - "outrageous actions of Russia" -
    and will close, and will lower (if they want) - any "curtains".
    This is a modern war - no military action.

    There have been, for a long time, questions about the mind and strategy of our oligarchs and the "elite" -
    "And must the main" streams "go to NATO?"
    What would be possible to blackmail Russia - "sit still, otherwise we will block you ..."?
    But there are also promising emerging markets, except, subject to the United States, Europe.
    Well, at least in the "streams" - China was formed. Thank you.
    How long can you hang on a hook and squeak in this European mousetrap ?!
  • ku-ku Offline ku-ku
    ku-ku (ku-ku) 14 May 2021 13: 40
    0
    The dreamers have already received an answer from the Kremlin - do not expect any unions.
  • Mazay_2 Offline Mazay_2
    Mazay_2 (Anatoly Chubar) 14 May 2021 18: 36
    0
    And there is. But I would not rush things. SP-2 will be finished, but Donbass will not be annexed and this should not be done. It is only necessary to recognize and conclude all the necessary agreements to officially supply the necessary weapons, teach them how to use them, and help them latently. The relevance of the conflict has been exhausted both for the United States and for Ukraine, and even more so for Russia. Therefore, to warn correctly and after the announced date, begin to hammer the Ukrainians with miner's helmets so that it crushes ...
  • Artyom Yakovlev Offline Artyom Yakovlev
    Artyom Yakovlev (Artyom Yakovlev) 14 May 2021 23: 15
    +3
    The West imposes sanctions not for "good" and "bad" actions, but because these sanctions in this volume correspond to their national interests. And therefore, the shutdown of "also SWIFT, the economic embargo and the" Iron Curtain-2.0 "in general can be imposed with equal success even for half of Ukraine, even for Navalny's cut finger. At least for the Crimea, which they consider annexed, but the annexation is a continuing crime. It's just a bummer, an excuse for not wanting to fight.

    Should I annex Donbass? It depends on the attitude to the people, whether you consider them a part of the Russian people. Because in this case, not to defend their own is a f ** king of the nation. Since the protection of common borders, "ours" is an unconditional duty, in fact, what it was created for.

    As for the republics, the territory in which they are located became part of the reign of Mikhail Fedorovich together with the Don Cossacks. And his claims to Russianness are much higher than those of the territory of the former Crimean Khanate, conquered by force of arms and became part of the Russian Federation as a republic. Which, as it were, hints at the national character of education.

    Well, as for the desire of all of Ukraine, and not just Donbass. Then come back to reality. It is impossible to squeeze out part of the territory from some and betray others and retain at least a drop of respect.

    He smiled about preventing the outbreak of war in Donbass. The Ukrainian group remained in place, the shelling continues. Ten people have been killed in the last week. Including the NM fighters who were the first to receive Russian passports and who are your fellow citizens. But who cares? Yes, not anyone.
  • Yuri Bryanskiy Offline Yuri Bryanskiy
    Yuri Bryanskiy (Yuri Bryansky) 15 May 2021 06: 03
    +1
    Competently, except for one thing. In September 2014, in one day they took Mariupol and went to the Zaporozhye border. After Merkel's call, the troops withdrew. Draw your own conclusions on the SP-2.
  • RFR Offline RFR
    RFR (RFR) 15 May 2021 23: 45
    0
    Delirium of another analyst ... If only ... I think ... Smart guy ...
  • Sergey Stepanov Offline Sergey Stepanov
    Sergey Stepanov (Sergey Stepanov) 30 May 2021 10: 04
    +1
    ... with all the ensuing bonuses in the form of disconnection from SWIFT, the economic embargo and, in general, the "Iron Curtain-2.0". Isn't the price too high for the LPNR annexation? ...

    In order to understand whether the price will be high in this case or not, it must be compared with the costs that Russia will incur after the sudden attack on it by Ukraine, which, according to the West, will be ready to do this, as in its time, in 1941, in the opinion of all the same West, Germany was ready to attack the USSR.
    Now the West is preparing Ukraine for war, as in its time it prepared Germany and sooner or later the West will prepare Ukraine, at this stage the West is working to reformat the Worldview of Ukrainians from the point of view of their attitude towards Russia as an enemy, this process requires the withdrawal of Ukrainians, who spent their conscious lives in the USSR (this is about 55% of the total number of inhabitants of Ukraine), therefore, all the main work is carried out with new generations of Ukrainian youth who do not know life in the USSR and this youth is almost ready, but it is still in the minority by to those who consider Russia a friendly country, but when the old generation leaves Ukraine, morally, psychologically, it will be ready for war, since already a large part of the citizens of Ukraine will be hostile to the Russian Federation. By that time, in Russia, the generation of the USSR will also leave and those who will also consider Ukraine a hostile country will remain, and then the West will give the go-ahead for the war.
    So is it necessary today, to give the West this chance in the future?
    And it is so clear that the costs associated with switching off SWIFT today will be 123 thousand times less than those that the Russian Federation will incur in the future.
    Therefore, Ukraine will be taken away, exactly today, and not in parts, but all, and it will be the LPNR corps that will take it away, i.e. ethnic Ukrainians will liberate ethnic Ukrainians from the fascist regime, without any aggression from outside, so that there are no formal claims to the Russian Federation from the West, after which the people of Ukraine will vote to join the Union with Belarus and the Russian Federation, as it was already in 1922, in connection with which the West will not have any trenches for organizing a future war, absolutely.