Anti-submarine aviation of the Russian Navy: simulated targets and blanks instead of weapons

April 16 2021 15

On April 12, the press service of the Ministry of Defense reported:

A tactical group of five Il-38 and Il-38N anti-submarine aircraft of the mixed air regiment of the Troops and Forces in the North-East of Russia, as part of the final check during the winter training period, worked out training actions to search, detect and track the submarines of the imaginary enemy, using on-board anti-submarine systems ... For the first time, five anti-submarine aircraft of the Pacific Fleet simultaneously conducted a group search for submarines of the conditional "enemy", placed mine installations and carried out anti-submarine bombing. In a given area, the crews discovered and attacked from the air a specially simulated underwater target, about 50 practical aviation depth training bombs were used.

News this was happily picked up by a number of our media, although in fact this is nothing more than an admission of a complete disaster with our anti-submarine aircraft.

Depth charges instead of torpedoes, excuse the level of the beginning of World War II (for the first anti-submarine aircraft MK24 "Fido" began to be used by the Allied aircraft back in 1943).

In fact, we do not have anti-submarine aviation, and what we have is outdated by about 30-40 years. Moreover, this applies even to such new complexes as Novella (the modernized Il-38N aircraft). So what's the deal?

The newest complex "Kasatka" from "Radar-MMS", appointed (by the former command of Naval Aviation) our "head organization" for aviation PPS (anti-submarine search and sighting systems) and complexes (despite the fact that nothing on this topic has ever been developed), in his advertising video about the real "efficiency" (in quotes) shows figures, from which it follows that the detection range of modern low-noise submarines is for the used dropping hydroacoustic buoys (RGAB) RSH-16M ... several hundred meters!

Moreover, these are just real numbers, as experts have repeatedly written about (the so-called "crisis of the local observer", caused by a sharp decrease in target noise - down to levels close to background). Are there other solutions? Yes there is. And they have long been implemented (since the end of the 80s) and massively implemented (since the 90s) in foreign new teaching staff based on three key of technologies:

- the use of a separate RGAB not as a "detector", but as a "sensor" of the distributed antenna of the buoy field, the task of processing the data of which and the functions of the "detector" are solved by the PTS of the aircraft or helicopter;
- multi-position operation of various hydroacoustic means optimally distributed in the search area and complex joint data processing (for example, the US Navy through the LAMPS helicopter system is provided with the transfer of RGAB data for their integrated processing with the SQQ-89 ship anti-submarine complexes;
- in necessary cases, the implementation of an active low-frequency "illumination" of the water area (after which even an absolutely silent submarine appears in the role of a "fly not glass"), and in its modern form, low-power and even secretive (ie, not detected by the target submarine) "Booming" with powerful active messages to the floor of the ocean (after which the whales were thrown ashore) are a thing of the past.

With this approach, the detection ranges of even the most quiet submarines can reach tens of kilometers, and the high speed and large supply of buoys on aircraft make them the most terrible enemy of our submarines. Let me emphasize that all this became a mass reality in the navies of foreign countries already in the 90s of the last century.

At the same time, the Russian Navy, even in the latest ships and aircraft, "froze" in the distant 80s:

- the joint operation of aviation and naval search tools is obviously not provided (both in hardware and software, and in that they "simply" work in different frequency ranges);
- aviation facilities (aircraft, modernized Ka-27M helicopters) have search tools in their "ideology" that are 30-40 years behind the world level (and this is not the fault of the industry, modern solutions and technologies were offered there, these are precisely outdated incompetent requirements customer (Navy and Ministry of Defense).

Moreover, even a relatively modern (and quite workable) "Novella" went to the fleet "castrated" - without all the prescribed nomenclature of new RGAB. In public procurement, there are only modifications of the ancient RSAB (development back in the early 80s) RSL-16. Very good results can be obtained on the modern PPS and on the RSL-16, and our science has conducted such effective experiments. But we do not have modern PPS, and with those supposedly "newest" ones, which are, the real ranges are scanty several hundred meters (ie less than a kilometer!), I.e. there is no need to talk about any effective search for submarines with such means ...

In addition, one cannot fail to note another very formidable factor - the radar for searching for underwater objects (and other non-acoustic means), or rather the registration of weak disturbances on the water surface due to the movement of the submarine's hull at depth. These works began a very long time ago in the USSR, and the results were very promising (with good statistics of real detections, but unstable).

However, in our country "all this has died," and now, when you talk about this with representatives of the Navy's aviation (with reference to foreign works), a typical phrase has become:

- And what, did we have something on this topic?

It was, and how! Just one example, from the memoirs of the head of the department for advanced design of the Central Research Institute of them. Krylova A.M. Vasiliev with the assessment of this issue by the last Soviet Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy for shipbuilding and armament, Admiral Novoselov:

... at the meeting he did not give the floor to the head of the institute, who was eager to tell about experiments to detect the surfaced trace of a submarine using a radar. ... Much later, at the end of 1989, I asked him why he dismissed this question. To this Fyodor Ivanovich replied: "I know about this effect, it is impossible to protect oneself from such detection, so why upset our submariners"?

With all this, one cannot ignore the opinion that our enormous “utilization of budgetary funds” for submarine exploration turns out to be a determining factor in the fact that the Russian Navy practically completely ignores modern trends in the development of means of searching for submarines. Those. revealing acute problems with stealth and the appearance of our submarines (including the latest ones) can lead to a logical reduction in budgetary allocations for them (which some individuals and organizations really do not want).

Those. Are the private interests of "spending budget funds" above the real military security of the country? Where are the admirals looking? And somehow, too often lately, they look at what high posts they will occupy after the navy in the OPK, respectively, "spoiling relations" with the OPK turns out to be practically the same as "putting an end to a career." "Wonderful question" (in quotes) - where is the former chief of aviation of the Navy now?

But even more "interesting" (in quotes) is the situation with weapons.

In fact, our anti-submarine aviation is throwing bombs because there is nothing else to throw. It all started with the "weapon of the 3rd generation" - the UMGT-1 torpedo and the APR-2 anti-submarine missile, which entered service in the late 70s of the last century. In order not to "spoil the statistics", then the Naval Aviation went to a complete refusal to use new practical torpedoes (with homing systems on and their real guidance at target submarines), replacing them with throwing torpedo shells.

Note: in a practical torpedo, the explosives and fuse compartment is replaced by a practical compartment that provides data registration and the emergence of products after firing. In some cases, when the ascent of the torpedo due to the large overweight cannot be ensured (as, for example, the UMGT-1), the recorder is fired from the practical compartment and pops up.

And this kind of "combat training" (in quotes), figuratively speaking, with "wooden machine guns", continues to this day. At the same time, the UMGT-1 torpedo had extremely low noise immunity, and according to the experience of its use at research sites on special target submarines, with the timely use of even primitive countermeasures, they always evaded. Those. the real combat value of the UMGT-1 in the war was a big question.

The APR-2 airborne anti-submarine missile was a completely different matter; at the turn of the late 70s, it had, probably, the world's best anti-jamming, accurate homing system. APR-2E in the export version is quite a lot and was gladly used in a practical version by foreign customers (India, Cuba, Syria). Moreover, in India, comparative tests of the APR-2E with the latest western torpedoes were carried out, and our APR-2E proved to be very worthy.

The main means of "combat training" (exactly in quotes) of anti-submarine aviation of the Navy is a blank (without guidance system, engine and rudders) of the UMGT-1 torpedo

However, the naval aviation of the Navy in the entire history of the operation of the APR-2 did not order from the industry a single set of re-preparation (for practical firing), throwing only its blanks. All practical applications were carried out exclusively by the industry through periodic testing and advanced research.

The experience of the APR-2 made it possible to create in the 80s a much more effective APR-3, and became the foundation for a successful solution in the State Scientific and Production Enterprise "Region" of the most difficult task - the creation of effective airborne torpedoes.

Now the modernized version of the APR-3M, according to the statement of the head of the TRV corporation B.V. Obnosov, is serially produced and supplied to the Ministry of Defense.

A logical question arises - was an unprincipled decision to abandon its real practical application also made for the APR-3M of naval aviation?

PS

Why in the anti-submarine aviation exercises announced in the media, despite the significant number of aircraft involved (and, accordingly, the consumption of an expensive resource), practical anti-submarine weapons were not used? Indeed, without its actual use, there is no need to talk about its development and the possibility of effective use in combat conditions.

Why our aviation does not have modern search and sighting systems (and moreover, their development is not even asked by the customer), why is there no modern and effective RSAB?

In fact, today the country and the fleet do not have anti-submarine aviation. What we have today is only capable of efficiently performing patrol tasks.

Our aviation is incapable of fighting submarines.

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Afinogen

-4

April 16 2021 08: 13

Why our aviation does not have modern search and sighting systems (and moreover, their development is not even asked by the customer), why is there no modern and effective RSAB?

Our country does not have a lot of things. The answer is simple. Our oligarchs are very hungry, the poor have no bread, they have to put caviar on bread And our president is exhausted so that they do not starve. And our prices are constantly growing for everything. Well, the president will be indignant at the public, it seems like macaroons are getting more expensive, but there is no sense in this, as the price has grown and continues.
1. 2534
  
  0
  
  April 17 2021 18: 27
  
  Quote: Athenogen
  Our country does not have a lot of things. The answer is simple. Our oligarchs are very hungry, they have no bread for the poor, they have to put caviar on their bread And our president
  
  GDP has absolutely nothing to do with it
  the question is in the "boyars" and their "candle factories"
  specifically - in the FORMER Chief of Naval Aviation Kozhin
Sergey Latyshev

-3

April 16 2021 08: 46

On the sites around the war, they have been writing about this for a long time.
But after all, we have "underwafli" everywhere, so the reaction in the mainstream media is not particularly noticeable.
1. 2534
  
  0
  
  April 17 2021 18: 29
  
  Quote: Sergey Latyshev
  But after all, we have "underwafli" everywhere, so the reaction in the regular media is not particularly noticeable.
  
  we will correct
  the story of the ice shooting showed that when the media start to beat the mordas with herring, it comes to officials
123

+2

April 16 2021 10: 55

In fact, our anti-submarine aviation is throwing bombs because there is nothing else to throw. It all started with "weapons of the 3rd generation" - torpedoes UMGT-1 and anti-submarine missile APR-2, entered service in the late 70s of the last century... In order not to "spoil the statistics", then the Naval Aviation went to a complete refusal to use new practical torpedoes (with homing systems on and their real guidance at target submarines), replacing them with throwing torpedo shells.

It turns out that the current admirals did not "ruin the great Soviet legacy", but are worthy successors of the "glorious tradition"? Apparently (to paraphrase the comment below, for there were no oligarchs then) the secretaries of party committees and directors of factories were very hungry, they did not have bread for the poor, did they have to put caviar on bread? And Dear Leonid Ilyich was struggling to keep them from starving?

... at the meeting he did not give the floor to the head of the institute, who was eager to tell about experiments to detect the surfaced trace of a submarine using a radar. ... Much later, at the end of 1989, I asked him why he dismissed this question. To this Fyodor Ivanovich replied: "I know about this effect, it is impossible to protect oneself from such detection, so why upset our submariners"?

This effect has been known since Soviet times, and not only here. Even I, a person very far from the navy, have heard of him. But I didn’t notice the global trend towards the reduction of submarines or the complete abandonment of them due to the impossibility of preventing their detection. Although it is probably difficult to reproach Ukraine and Poland for ignoring this problem, but probably the absence of submarines in them is more likely due to other reasons. Directly a worldwide conspiracy of admirals and the military-industrial complex of some kind

With all this, one cannot ignore the opinion that our enormous “utilization of budget funds” for submarine exploration is the determining factor in the fact that the Russian Navy practically completely ignores modern trends in the development of means of searching for submarines. Those. revealing acute problems with stealth, the appearance of our submarines (including the newest ones) can lead to a logical reduction in budget allocations for them (which some individuals and organizations really do not want).

Those. Are the private interests of "spending budget funds" above the real military security of the country? Where are the admirals looking? And somehow, too often lately, they look at what high posts they will occupy after the navy in the OPK, accordingly, "spoiling relations" with the OPK turns out to be practically the same as "putting an end to a career."

It turns out that the Soviet admirals looked towards the military-industrial complex and private interests in the development of funds? And we were told so much about the creation of the mighty flora of the Union and worthless post-Soviet dwarfs. And it turns out that the tradition of cutting the budget for the sake of selfish career interests flourished even then? Moreover, the scale of the cut was grandiose, no match for the current one. So that's why there were empty shelves in stores ...
Somehow your criticism of the current regime did not work out very well, you are probably now being thrown by the supporters of "Glory KPSS" with rotten tomatoes.

For some reason I remembered from Lefty "In England, guns are not cleaned with bricks." But seriously, you probably worry about the fleet, take everything to heart, that's why there are so many emotions.
I don’t know what about training torpedoes, it’s difficult for a non-specialist to judge, but with anti-submarine aircraft it’s really not sugar. But in my opinion this is not because they do not understand the existence of a problem, but rather because of the lack of the ability to quickly correct the situation. There are very few planes and Be-12s in the navy are probably not kept from a good life, but because there is no replacement for them.
Surely the situation will soon begin to change, I believe there will be anti-submarine or patrol rocket launchers based on the Ms-21 or Superjet (import-substituted), but for now we have what we have. Boeings cannot be sent to the fleet, you have to wait for your own. And I suppose we will also see the new version of "Novella" on them and with all kinds of buoys. Surely work on the creation of aircraft and equipment for them is synchronized.
And what means of detection are now available besides aviation and what the specialists of the GUGI are doing under water, we will not learn at all soon.
1. 2534
  
  +2
  
  April 17 2021 18: 33
  
  Quote: 123
  But I didn’t notice the global trend towards the reduction of submarines or the complete abandonment of them due to the impossibility of preventing their detection.
  
  a good topic was raised - CHANGING THE LOOK OF new submarines, and most importantly - their MODELS OF TASKS
  it will be necessary in the next article on this issue to walk
  
  Quote: 123
  And it turns out that the tradition of cutting the budget for the sake of selfish career interests flourished even then? Moreover, the scale of the cut was grandiose, no match for the current
  
  there was such
  but the scale was disproportionate to the current
  and if it was opened, "the heads were chopped off" mercilessly
  for example, the removal in the mid-70s of the head of the UPV of the Navy, Pukhov
  
  Quote: 123
  Surely the situation will soon begin to change, I believe there will be anti-submarine or patrol rocket launchers based on the MS-21 or Superjet.
  
  in this matter, the main thing is on the plane and the anti-submarine COMPLEX
  and just in this issue without "acceleration to the fifth point" there will be no result
  moreover, the urgently needed resumption of work on the patrol officer based on the Tu-214 WITH OLD TTZ be a mistake worse than a crime
  1. 123
    
    0
    
    April 17 2021 19: 46
    
    there was such
    but the scale was disproportionate to the current
    and if it was opened, "the heads were chopped off" mercilessly
    for example, the removal in the mid-70s of the head of the UPV of the Navy, Pukhov
    
    As for the scale, I doubt that funding in those years was practically unlimited.
    I’m more about the decision-making mechanism itself. I don’t remember the positions and surnames, I don’t want to remember or look, it’s not so important. Therefore, let's say the "chief naval commander" looked at Project 1144 Orlan at one time and said - just like me, guys, put the usual power plants for these reactors. At the same time, the displacement "slightly" increased and the price increased. And the "chief tankman" said that there would not be a single gram of explosives on the tanks, as a result, dynamic protection was not produced for a long time and was not really installed on the tanks. And the development and creation of a new Tu-22M aircraft was presented to the authorities as a modernization of the old one. And this is somewhat different money. In my opinion, an excellent illustration of "total" financial control.
    The point is not how correct the decisions were made, according to the Eagles they say it was quite wise and subsequently helped out more than once, in the very mechanism of their adoption. One person, without agreement or some kind of technical or financial justification, resolved such issues. Or a group of "specialists", according to their own understanding, created a new plane, and the authorities had noodles for pasta. And the money is huge, modern sawmills will choke on saliva
    
    in this matter, the main thing is on the plane and the anti-submarine COMPLEX
    and just in this issue without "acceleration to the fifth point" there will be no result
    moreover, the urgently needed resumption of work on the patrolman based on the Tu-214 WITH THE OLD TTZ would be a mistake worse than a crime
    
    Of course you're right complex is the main thing. I guess it's not about greed, it's more of an electronics problem. Apparently the characteristics are not particularly satisfactory and there is simply nothing to produce. (Of course, these are just assumptions). I hope they will do something decent, and by that time there will be carriers. Tu-214 is probably not the best solution. There are not so many of them in storage, as far as I remember, the plans were to shake off all the modifications in the Air Force and the Tu-204 too. Nobody buys, why should they stand under the fence? As a result, the Ministry of Defense will operate aircraft of various modifications for a long time for which spare parts are not produced. These are difficulties in maintenance and repair, the need to maintain small-scale production of spare parts. And the characteristics will certainly be better in the MS-21.
The comment was deleted.
Dukhskrepny

-2

April 16 2021 13: 43

Degradation of the Navy at the "rower from the galleys"
1. Alexndr p
  
  0
  
  April 20 2021 17: 31
  
  Degradation of the Navy at the "rower from the galleys"
  
  whose Crimea, Mykol?
  
  Putin offended you without even knowing about your existence. This is a strong move of a quarter century long, practically
  
  and how many of you are so sad in Runet crawling. I look at you and your patience - and you give me confidence in tomorrow.
  
  Because you endured loudly and will continue to endure. Just like a sad steelmaker) And other characters
Netyn

+1

April 17 2021 11: 35

Clearly and to the point from cap3 in stock
Sapsan136

+6

April 17 2021 15: 14

With anti-submarine aviation in the Russian Federation, in fact, everything is bad and the worst of all is that the Il-18, on the basis of which the anti-submarine Il-38 was created, has not been produced for a long time. We urgently need to launch a new anti-submarine aircraft with modern weapons into production. On the basis of the Tu-204, an anti-submarine similar to the American Poseidon could turn out ... but measures to resuscitate the anti-submarine aviation of the Russian Federation need to be taken yesterday ...
1. 2534
  
  0
  
  April 17 2021 18: 34
  
  Quote: Sapsan136
  We urgently need to launch a new anti-submarine aircraft with modern weapons into production. On the basis of the Tu-204, an anti-submarine vessel similar to the American Poseidon could turn out ... but measures to resuscitate the anti-submarine aviation of the Russian Federation need to be taken yesterday ...
  
  Yes
  but the main thing is to immediately start work on a modern anti-submarine complex
  1. Sapsan136
    
    +4
    
    April 17 2021 18: 43
    
    Today it is necessary to start the production of new anti-submarine aircraft with the weapons that are, since the aircraft are already critically lacking, and in parallel, to modernize their weapons, by creating new and modernized anti-submarine systems
    1. 2534
      
      +1
      
      April 19 2021 16: 50
      
      Quote: Sapsan136
      Today we need to start producing new anti-submarine aircraft with the weapons
      
      it's OCD
      it won't work without him
      there was a variant of modernization ("revisions" - within the framework of GOST 307, i.e. formally "without ROC (GOST 203))
      Su34
      https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/55595
      but he was "buried" (at least for now)
      here is the backlog of this program (including in the part of the COMPACT complex) could just be used in "simple versions"
      and even the "release" is not needed. in storage there is a mass of Tu-214 with a large residual resource
      1. Sapsan136
        
        +3
        
        April 19 2021 16: 52
        
        Civilian Tu-214 under the torpedo bomber will still have to be altered, and in the light of the mistralization of foreign cars, they can be useful for civilian transportation.