Why Netanyahu urgently needed a war


Outside policy Israel, especially in its region, has always been extremely casual. But sometimes this ease starts to go off scale. So, another exacerbation began at the end of January 2021.


On January 26, the media reported that at an international conference of the State Security Research Institute, Chief of the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) General Staff Aviv Kohavi spoke harshly about the possibility of the United States returning to a nuclear deal with Iran, stating that a return to this deal is unacceptable, even if it is in something. it is improved. Because, according to the general, after the end of such a deal, or even before its completion, Iran will be able to quickly develop nuclear weapons, which will become "an intolerable threat to the security of Israel and the entire region."

Aviv Kohavi also warned that in the event of hostilities, the territory of Israel would be subjected to massive rocket attacks, from which it would be difficult to defend itself. At the same time, he stressed that the response to rocket attacks would be a large-scale attack on enemy targets both in open and built-up areas.

The Foreign Ministers of the UAE and Bahrain, who spoke at the same conference, supported Kohavi, saying that any deal with Iran should imply the curtailment of the nuclear program, the solution of the problem of Iranian ballistic missiles (read - the elimination of these very missiles) and the adjustment of Iran's regional policy.

What is so strange here?


The strange thing is that not the first persons are not the first, even in this region, the powers are taught how to conduct the foreign policy of the newly elected and just (not a week has passed) new president of the world's # 1 power. And Aviv Kohavi is not even the first person in his department, in the army.

And they teach the President of the United States on camera, in front of journalists from the world media. From the outside it looks just like rudeness. But the main oddity surfaced two days later.

On January 28, the same Israeli media reported on the speech of Aviv Kohavi by the head of the press service of the Iranian army, Brigadier General Abolfazl Shekarchi. The reaction was very harsh. And to explain this harshness, the media were forced to quote one sentence from Kohavi's speech, which they omitted on January 26. Here it is:

On January 26, Lieutenant General Aviv Kohavi announced that the preparation of operational plans has begun to end Iran's nuclear development.

Translated into ordinary language, this means the preparation of a preemptive strike against Iran's nuclear facilities. This is how the experts in Israel understood it. You can see how it looks in real life on the Internet about the preemptive strike by the Israeli Air Force on the Iraqi nuclear reactor on 07.06.1981, Operation Opera.

In Iran, this operation is well remembered, so the reaction was as follows.

If the enemy makes the slightest mistake, we will destroy the launch sites from which the missiles were launched, as well as wipe Tel Aviv and Haifa from the face of the earth. This will be done as soon as possible.

- said General Shekarchi.

He also said that Israel does not represent the full power of the Iranian army.

Three oddities


1. The General Staff cannot develop plans for a preemptive strike against another state on its own (and, moreover, make these plans public). Only by order of the Minister of Defense, who, in turn, can issue such an order only by order of the Commander-in-Chief, i.e. Benjamin Netanyahu.

2. The media did not cite the phrase about planning a preemptive strike in the report on January 26, but brought it only on January 28, forced to this by the tough reaction of Iran. Despite the fact that the media of other countries noticed this phrase. Hence, it is clear that the topic of a preemptive strike on Iran is toxic in Israeli society. Israeli experts believe that Israel is not capable of waging a war with Iran by conventional (non-nuclear) means.

3. The words of General Shekarchi lead to suspicions that Iran already has several nuclear warheads, albeit from foreign fissile material. “… We will erase Tel Aviv and Haifa from the face of the Earth. This will be done as soon as possible. " Israel "... does not represent the full power of the Iranian army." Which makes the situation worse.

Aviv Kochavi's words were not disavowed by the Israeli leadership. This is another oddity. It turns out that this coming out was made with the knowledge and by order of Netanyahu.

In February-March, events continued to unfold. But, before considering them, it is worth trying to understand the possible motivation of the characters.

And for this we need to move, oddly enough, to Ukraine, in November 2018. What are the most important features of the situation in the country for us?

1. Ukraine has been in a state of permanent "kind of war" for many years. The situation is characterized by periodic gunfire. Nobody starts serious military actions, no peace settlement takes place.

2. President of the country Poroshenko is in an unpleasant situation. In six months the elections, which he will obviously lose. It is very desirable for him to postpone parting with the post in order to resolve some issues, selfish and not only.

3. One of the most important reasons for the reluctance to part with the post is the unrealistic number of criminal cases opened against him. For a while I followed their number, but on the 12th or 13th I gave up. But the deeds are the most, that neither is real.

What way out of this situation did Poroshenko find? Everyone knows about this very well. He sent three ships to break through the Kerch Strait: two boats and a harbor tug. Demonstratively did not ask for permission to pass the strait. The calculation was that when the violators refuse to obey, the ships of the Russian border guard will open fire and another 5 - 7 Svidomo dead will be added to the "heavenly hundred". Then Poroshenko will be able to declare martial law throughout the country and postpone the elections indefinitely. Poroshenko was out of luck. The unrealistic restraint of the Russian border guards made it possible to do without casualties, and Poroshenko had to go to the elections, which he lost. But the surviving Ukrainian sailors were lucky.

Let's go back to Israel today. What do we have?


1. The country has been waging a "kind of war" for decades. Arabs periodically fire rockets at Israel and commit terrorist attacks. Israel responds with air raids. And vice versa. Moreover, there is a formal state of war.

2. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu is in an unpleasant situation. In December 2020, the news of early elections to the Knesset (parliament) fell on him. This will be the fourth election in the last 2 years. There is no certainty that Netanyahu will remain in office.

3. Netanyahu has three criminal cases on hand. In May last year, he became the first incumbent prime minister in Israel's history to have a criminal case heard in court. And in Israel they don't joke with it. In 2011, the former president of Israel actually sat down, and in 2016, the former prime minister of Israel actually sat down.

How does the situation in Israel look like nothing? People in similar situations with similar life experiences often tend to do the same thing. For people in politics, the choice of different options is greatly reduced. Netanyahu has much less choice than Poroshenko. Poroshenko, having ceased to be president, remains quite an oligarch for himself and has significant resources to "resolve issues." Which he proved after losing the election. He created a party for himself, became a deputy, no one remembers about his criminal cases (especially against the background of what the new president is doing).

Netanyahu, stripped of his post, becomes just a citizen. Without a lot of money, without assets, without friends, allies, patrons. On the contrary, for many years in politics and 15, in total, years of premiership, he has accumulated a lot of competitors, envious people, enemies. Who will gladly make it impossible for him to return to politics. Even if they are not imprisoned, they will lead to a heart attack or stroke. Three criminal cases are enough for this.

What options does Netanyahu have? There are not many of them. And his actions strongly overlap with the actions of the Ukrainian presidents. Similar circumstances - similar actions.

Netanyahu started and widely advertises the search for the remains of intelligence officer Eli Cohen, who was executed on May 18, 1965 in Damascus and buried in secret. The Russian military was involved in the search at the personal request of Netanyahu to Putin. For 55 years, the remains have been buried in an unknown place and no one cares. And here - the elections on March 23, what about without Eli Cohen? Maybe this is a coincidence?

Here in 1982. during the first Lebanese war, Zachariah Baumel went missing. On April 4, 2019, the remains of the fallen hero were handed over to Israel by the Russian military. So what? Oh yes: the elections to the Knesset were held on April 9, 2019, and Netanyahu's Likud party won, of course.

We are looking at Ukraine. Before the elections to the Rada last year, an exchange of prisoners was organized, Zelensky indicated his participation and the "Servants of the People". When, after the elections, the exchange of prisoners was prepared by Medvedchuk - he got his hands on him so that he would not climb where they were not asked. The exchange was thwarted. Well, how will we exchange everyone, whom will we change, if necessary again? And that people are sitting - so they will sit, not Auschwitz, go.

In general, there is complete symmetry in actions. So why not assume that the reaction will be similar to the prospect of landing? That is, a military threat will somehow be involved. Organizing a blunt direct provocation, like Poroshenko, is unlikely to work in Israel. A real military confrontation with Iran will cost Israel too much. But it is possible to designate the likelihood of a breakdown in the conflict and blackmail the Israeli elite with this threat, hinting at the provision of guarantees against criminal prosecution. Or you can inspire the people of Israel with an immediate and adequate response to an enemy strike. In this case, of course, it is better to attend to the fact that the "enemy" strike was delivered on time. Not earlier and not later than the required time. It is important.

And the elections are approaching. Almost the entire February was held in the current regime, periodic raids on the objects of pro-Iranian militants. In the end, Israel received a warning from Moscow that Syria's patience might run out. But then events accelerated. Israel, like Ukraine, was drawn to the sea.

On February 25.02.2021, XNUMX, in the Gulf of Oman, as a result of explosions, damage was caused to the Israeli vehicle transporting vehicle MV Helios Ray. And around this incident, a hype was organized with an evidence base at a highly likely level.

Rami Unger, ship owner, 26.03.2021:

As a result of the explosion, two holes with a diameter of about one and a half meters each were formed in the sides of the ship, but the full extent of the damage will be understood only after the ship returns to the port.

He also noted that he doubted that the explosion was organized to harm Israel.

At the same time, the Israeli media immediately, on March 26.03.2021, XNUMX, began to unwind an active campaign to designate Iran as the culprit of the explosion. Motivation - revenge for the murdered head of the Iranian nuclear program Mohsen Fakhrizadeh.

Nobody bothers themselves with evidence, and Channel 12, without specifying the source, says that the cause of the explosion was a missile fired from an Iranian ship.

The latter is completely ridiculous. Those holes in the casing, photographs of which appear in the media, may be the result of an explosion of no more than 500 g of explosives. So far, no one has reported more serious damage. So it was not. An anti-ship missile is at least 50 kg. explosives, rocket kinetic energy, plus unburned rocket fuel. There would have been much more trouble. Especially if there were two missiles, according to the number of holes. And the cargo of the ship is cars. Probably with some amount of gasoline in the tanks?

Iran's wines were actively discussed, at least until March 1, inclusive.

On March 5, TASS reported that the Israeli Defense Minister said in an interview with the American television channel Fox News about the preparation of a preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. About which General Aviv Kochavi spoke in January. Again, the Minister of Defense cannot decide on such an interview himself.

And on March 12, Iranian media reported a terrorist attack on an Iranian ship in the Mediterranean. The explosions were organized like the tracing paper from the explosions on MV Helios Ray. Simply, the action is indicated with a small amount of explosives. With minimal damage. Demonstration.

But if the authorship of the explosions on the Iranian ship is not in doubt (since the Israeli media diligently prepared the people of Israel for the fact that "retribution" would follow immediately), then the authorship of Iran in the explosion on MV Helios Ray is doubtful. Especially when you consider that the owner of MV Helios Ray, according to the Iranian website PRESS TV, is associated "with a close relationship with the head of the Israeli spy agency Mossad Yossi Cohen."

Especially when you recall an article in The Wall Street Journal dated March 11, 2021, which indicated that since the end of 2019, Israel has used weapons, including water mines, to strike Iranian ships or ships carrying Iranian goods when they are moving towards Syria in the Red Sea and elsewhere in the region. And there are at least a dozen such ships.

On March 16 at 22.35 local time, Israel struck the suburbs of Damascus. Most of the missiles were shot down by Syrian air defenses.

In general, the leader of the people frolics, not denying himself anything. This is understandable, not everything in the election campaign is successful. One of the main points of the pre-election program Netanyahu planned to make the vaccination campaign. But on March 16, CEC chairman Uzi Fogelman banned the Likud from using the slogan "Back to life," under which the vaccination campaign had been running from the outset.

And when Netanyahu announced an agreement with the UAE on the UAE's investment in the economy Israel's $ 10 billion, Abu Dhabi denied this statement, saying that the plans are in the very early stages of development, noting that they do not want economic negotiations to become part of Netanyahu's election program.

Maybe that's why the voting date was so close to the bright holiday of Passover. Just 4 days early. This year the volume of work of the CEC will be 2 times more, so the general director of the CEC Orli Ades is not sure that the commission will finish the calculation on time. And since government structures do not work on Pesach, the publication of the election results in this case will take place 2 weeks later. And what happens when the publication of election results is delayed, we all saw in November last year. IN USA.

In general, it is pointless to predict something specific, but the course of the current elections to the Knesset is definitely worth watching. Taking into account the motivation of the main character. And with the hope that he will not play war games.
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  1. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 14: 49
    -1
    3. The words of General Shekarchi lead to suspicions that Iran already has several nuclear warheads, albeit from foreign fissile material. “… We will erase Tel Aviv and Haifa from the face of the Earth. This will be done as soon as possible. " Israel "... does not represent the full power of the Iranian army." Which makes the situation worse.

    Oh, Iran (and before him - Egypt, Syria, etc.) says this all the time. Previously, however, they threatened to wipe out all of Israel from the face of the Earth. Crushed a little.
    1. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 14: 57
      +4
      And Iran does not directly say this (about nuclear weapons). And Iran does not have a direct border with Israel. To demolish two cities with conventional weapons at such a distance is unrealistic. Hence such suspicions. Israel also has no nuclear weapons, right?
      And Iran really got it. Especially after he was appointed guilty of the September 11.09.2001, 2003 attack. In XNUMX. Iran offered a quite adequate memorandum, but they chose not to notice it. Including Israel. And now the same Israel plays the victim. This has already become a habit.
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 16: 08
        -4
        Well, if suddenly Iran decides to use nuclear weapons in 2 Israeli cities, all the more preventively, then Israel will not destroy it. It will not be sweet, but it will not destroy. But Iran will definitely become a criminal state, for which no one, not even Russia, will stand up, and Israel (and its allies) will have full carte blanche for a full-scale military operation. Which will not end well for Iran.
        1. boriz Offline boriz
          boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 16: 32
          +5
          And who is talking about a preemptive strike. Read the words of the Iranian general.
          Strikes with conventional high-precision weapons at active nuclear facilities will lead to a weak contamination of the area. And then no one will blame Iran for the nuclear strike.
          Do not forget, the strike on Iraq was condemned at the UN level. Iraq simply had no allies.
          And the time is now such that everyone is for himself.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 16: 40
            -2
            Ok, I read the words of the Iranian general:

            If the enemy makes the slightest mistake, we will destroy the launch pads from which the missiles were launched, and also wipe them off the face of the Earth. Tel Aviv and Haifu. This will be done as soon as possible.

            Are there nuclear facilities in Haifa and Tel Aviv?

            Do not forget, the strike on Iraq was condemned at the UN level. Iraq simply had no allies.

            They formally condemned, but secretly everyone (including Iran) breathed a sigh of relief - no one needed Iraq armed with nuclear weapons. Except, perhaps, a couple of European countries, under contract to build a nuclear center in Iraq.

            And the time is now such that everyone is for himself.

            It is always like this - now, and in the past, and in the future.
            1. boriz Offline boriz
              boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 16: 59
              +2
              Are there nuclear facilities in Haifa and Tel Aviv?

              Both Tel Aviv and Haifa have important military installations. In an interview on Eaton.TV, Kedmi spoke about this with indignation. Up to the fact that the control center of military operations in the middle of Tel Aviv.
              Whether there are nuclear facilities among these objects - history is silent. Formally, they do not exist at all. And everyone should believe it.
              And the general talks about the mistake. This is precisely the preemptive strike against nuclear facilities. And they are workers. After such a blow, Iran will become purple where and with what to beat. And no one will blame them much. Well, express concern.
              At that time, Iraq did not have allies, and they could intercede for Iran. It is already almost a member of the EurAsEC. Our important (and, moreover, for the long term) partner. In the future - in our currency area. Certainly, in any case, it is more adequate than Turkey.
              But, it is quite possible (and most likely) this pick is simply to serve the BBC campaign. And a transparent hint from Iran will be enough for Israel.
            2. Binder Online Binder
              Binder (Miron) 19 March 2021 20: 38
              -5
              Quote: Cyril
              They formally condemned, but secretly everyone (including Iran) breathed a sigh of relief - no one needed Iraq armed with nuclear weapons.

              In general, the Persians should be grateful to the Israelis for the destruction of the Iraqi reactor. After all, if Saddam had nuclear weapons, he would undoubtedly have used it during the many years of the Iranian-Iraqi war.
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 16: 04
                0
                Yes, somehow at that moment Iran did not care about "Israel's aggression against a sovereign country", because the Iraqi nuclear program was its terrible nightmare
      2. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 16: 31
        -3
        And now the same Israel plays the victim.

        Not the victim, but the one who is threatened with complete destruction. Nobody pulled the Iranian Ayatollah by the tongue so that he ranted about the destruction of Israel as "a cancerous tumor that needs to be rooted out." Ahmadinejad, too, did not fish out his words about "wiping out Israel from the face of the Earth" under torture.

        It's one thing to talk about the military coercion of Israel to some advantageous position for itself (that is, Iran). Even about the destruction of the "Zionist elite" still all right. But a statement was made (and more than once) about the complete destruction of Israel as a state.
        1. boriz Offline boriz
          boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 16: 36
          +4
          It started with Iran being nominated guilty on 11/09. Iran tried in every possible way to defuse the situation, to discuss, proposed a quite adequate memorandum of 2003. These gestures were ignored. Including Israel. Well, we got it.
          The Iranians have words, and Israel has Operation Opera. Words versus deeds.
          1. Cyril Offline Cyril
            Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 16: 47
            -2
            It started with Iran being nominated guilty on 11/09.

            The Iranian Ayatollah called Israel "a cancer that needs to be rooted out" in 2000; attacks on the World Trade Center took place in 2001. Did the Iranians have a time machine?

            In addition, Iran has begun supporting Hamas and Hezbollah militants in their "holy struggle" since the early 90s.

            So there is no question of any "after 11/09".
            1. boriz Offline boriz
              boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 17: 12
              +6
              Ayatollah is a spiritual leader. We do not know what the chief rabbi is saying. Their whole religion is built on the fact that they are God's chosen ones, and the rest are goyim (read, Untermenshi). So what?
              By the way, where does this come from, about 2000?
              This is the standard figure of speech among the Ayatollahs. Vaughn, Zhirinovsky (an official politician) also says a lot ...
              And here they are talking about the military of the state level, talking about the official plans. This is a completely different alignment.
              Well, Iran supports Arab militants. Probably because he believes that their land was taken from them.
              Let's remember Deir Yassin ...
              1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 17: 55
                -5
                Ayatollah is a spiritual leader.

                In Iran, which is officially an Islamic (theocratic) republic, the Ayatollah is the Supreme Leader of Iran (fakikh) - this is the highest public office. And the main religious figure is directly involved in government.

                We do not know what the chief rabbi is saying.

                The Supreme Rebbe is not a public figure.

                Their whole religion is built on the fact that they are God's chosen ones, and the rest are goyim (read, Untermenshi).

                Firstly, no - the word "goyim" simply means representatives of other peoples and does not carry any derogatory meaning. In a derogatory sense, it is usually used by representatives of these "other peoples" who, because of their stupidity, ascribe to the Jews some kind of conjecture.

                Secondly, the concept of God's chosenness of the Israeli people does not consist in their superiority over others. On the contrary, if you carefully read the Old Testament, then God's chosen Israelites would mean something completely different.

                An analogue of the Jewish chosenness of God is the very widespread idea of ​​the messianism of the Russian people.

                Thirdly, not a single statesman or the highest religious leader of modern Israel has ever spoken about the destruction of other peoples or countries.

                This is the standard figure of speech among the Ayatollahs.

                Maybe then they should first work on their language, and only then occupy a leading position in the country?

                Vaughn, Zhirinovsky (an official politician) also says a lot ...

                Zhirinovsky does not hold government (that is, managerial posts), he is simply the leader of his party. Well, and a parliamentary clown in combination.

                And here they are talking about the military of the state level, talking about the official plans.

                And the Israeli military does not say anything about the destruction of Iran as a state.

                Well, Iran supports Arab militants.

                Yes, really, just think.

                Probably because he believes that their land was taken from them.

                Why then does he support them not against Syria, Egypt and Jordan, which seized most of the land allotted by the UN Plan for Palestine?

                Let's remember Deir Yassin ...

                Let's remember. Let us also remember who unleashed the war that led to this sad incident.
                1. boriz Offline boriz
                  boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 18: 21
                  +5
                  Let's remember. Let us also remember who unleashed the war that led to this sad incident.

                  And what to remember? People defended their land. The State of Israel did not exist yet. Civilians were killed. All.

                  And the Israeli military does not say anything about the destruction of Iran as a state.

                  Yes, they are planning to leave zones of radioactive contamination there.

                  Zhirinovsky does not hold government (that is, managerial posts), he is simply the leader of his party. Well, and a parliamentary clown in combination.

                  He is a deputy, party leader, LEGISLATOR. He writes laws. And the members of the party hold managerial posts.

                  Why then does he support them not against Syria, Egypt and Jordan, which seized most of the land allotted by the UN Plan for Palestine?

                  They did not seize, but occupied. There was no normal state education on these stubs. And they would be immediately occupied by Israel.

                  Maybe then they should first work on their language, and only then occupy a leading position in the country?

                  Well, suggest them ...
                  And I don't want to go deep into the topic of the goyim - Jews. You can slander the article inadvertently. But all the tsimes there is not in the Old Testament. The Torah is full of instructions that you should do only this way with your "brother", and whatever you like with a goi. For example, to give or not to give in growth.
                  1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                    Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 19: 14
                    -4
                    And what to remember? People defended their land. The State of Israel did not exist yet. Civilians were killed. All.

                    And the Israelis defended the right to exist for their state, which the Arabs opposed. So what?

                    Yes, they are planning to leave zones of radioactive contamination there.

                    They would not have planned if Iran had not publicly proclaimed its goal to destroy Israel and had it not develop nuclear weapons.

                    He is a deputy, party leader, LEGISLATOR. He writes laws.

                    Nevertheless, he does not occupy top leadership positions, does not determine the country's foreign policy.

                    They did not seize, but occupied. There was no normal state education on these stubs. And they would be immediately occupied by Israel.

                    Good excuse to take over, yes.

                    Well, suggest them ...

                    It was a rhetorical question.

                    But all the tsimes there is not in the Old Testament. The Torah is full of directions

                    The Torah (Pentateuch of Moses) is part of the Old Testament.

                    that with "your brother" you have to do only that way, and with your goy - whatever you like. For example, to give or not to give in growth.

                    Talmud (Sanhedrin 59): "Rabbi Meir says: a non-Jew who studies Torah (meaning the seven commandments of the sons of Noah) is equal to the high priest (the highest stage of holiness)."

                    Midrash (Tanhuma Vayikra 8): "Gentiles quickly repent of their erroneous deeds and correct them."

                    Talmud (Avoda Zara 6): "It is forbidden to repair any obstacle to a non-Jew."

                    Talmud (Gitin 61): "It is necessary to visit non-Jews, when they are sick, it is necessary to give alms to the poor non-Jews."

                    Talmud (Kiddushin 33a): "It is necessary to read an elderly non-Jew."

                    Rambam (Gzel 1: 2): "It is forbidden to steal from a non-Jew."

                    Mehilta (Mishpatim 4): "Anyone who kills a non-Jew is entitled to the death penalty."

                    Talmud (Khulin 92 b): "It is forbidden to lie to a non-Jew." Even an action that misleads him is forbidden to perform. For example, it is forbidden to give non-Jews meat that is forbidden to a Jew without informing him that this meat is non-kosher for Jews. The reason: it may be misleading for a non-Jew - he might think that we gave him meat that we need ourselves, and, as a result, we should honor him more when we give him meat that is not valuable to us .

                    In the Talmud (Bava Batra 88), the great sage Rav Safra is told. During the prayer, a non-Jew approached him and offered to buy some item from Rav. Rabbi Safra in his heart agreed to sell this item for the amount offered to a non-Jew, but could not report it, because he could not interrupt the prayer. The buyer decided that Rav Safra does not respond to him, because he wants a higher price. Gentile raised the price. Rabbi Safra continued to pray. The buyer offered an even higher price. This was repeated several times. When Rav Safra finished the prayer, the price was called much higher than the original. However, Rav Safra sold this item for the initial price, because, having heard this price for the first time, he mentally agreed to it.

                    Yes, by the way. In the text of the Torah, the term "goy" refers to any nation in general, including the Jews themselves.

                    Concerning usury specifically.

                    First, the law of the Torah, yes, does not prohibit (and does not force) to give in growth to a non-believer, but in the same way the same law of the Torah says that a non-believer has the right to give a Jew a debt at interest. Is it fair? Fair enough.

                    It's like with family and loved ones. You will not lend to your brother or friend at interest, but there is nothing immoral to lend at interest to a stranger or unfamiliar person. In the end, if a person gives an unfamiliar person the money that he needs at the moment, he has every right to claim some kind of profit from this.
                    It's just that the law of the Torah applies this principle not according to the criterion of blood ties or close friendship, but according to the criterion of faith. That's all. There is nothing racist or immoral in this law.
                    1. isofat Offline isofat
                      isofat (isofat) 19 March 2021 20: 15
                      +4
                      Quote: Cyril
                      And the Israelis defended the right to exist for their state, which the Arabs opposed.

                      Cyril... What is this right, about which Israel so often speaks, the right to build its own national state on foreign territory? So you mentioned it. If it is not difficult for you, how did the Jews get this right?
                      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 20: 28
                        -3
                        What is this right, about which Israel so often speaks, the right to build its own nation state?

                        Names the right of peoples to self-determination - including the right to create their own state on the historical territory of the residence of this people.

                        on someone else's territory?

                        What "alien" territory are we talking about? Israel was created on the territory provided for by the UN Plan for the Establishment of Jewish and Arab States in the territory under British mandate.

                        If it is not difficult for you, how did the Jews get this right?

                        The principle of the right of peoples to self-determination

                        gained recognition in the process of the collapse of the colonial system first in Article 1 of the UN Charter, which entered into force in 1945
                      2. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 19 March 2021 23: 59
                        +3
                        Cyril... People already lived on this territory, it was not ownerless. Jewish colonists who came to these lands are a small part of the Jewish people, citizens of other countries.

                        The historical territory inhabited by today's Jews is unknown. There are no methods to determine the historical territory of residence. laughing

                        Citizens, exercise your right of self-determination in your place of residence. Do not squeeze other people's territories laughing
                      3. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 00: 52
                        -2
                        The historical territory inhabited by today's Jews is unknown. There are no methods to determine the historical territory of residence. laughing

                        First, Jews have lived in this area up to the present time. The number fluctuated - yes. But the Jewish community was always present there.

                        Secondly, there are quite a few methods - archaeological, historical (analysis of documents and that's all).

                        The plan for the partition of Palestine took these factors into account.

                        According to this plan, the Jewish state was allocated third fertile coastal plain of Galilee и two-thirds the territory of the Negev desert, not suitable at that time for agriculture or for the construction of cities - only 56,47% of the total territory of the British mandate. This territory for the most part corresponded to the territory, the majority of the population of which were Jews..

                        Thus, there was no "occupied territory where people lived".
                      4. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 02: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: Cyril
                        Thus, there was no "occupied territory where people lived".

                        The colonization of Palestine by visiting Jews caused more than one major conflict with the local population. This has been noted by historians.

                        Local Jews were a small part of the Palestinian people, less than ten percent, at the beginning of the twentieth century. There is no doubt that they had the right, together with the people of which they were a part, to build their own state. A common state, as the Palestinians wanted, living and working on this land. This community of people has developed historically.



                        Israel was proclaimed by the people who colonized Palestine. These Jews were born in another land.
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 09: 26
                        0
                        The colonization of Palestine by visiting Jews caused more than one major conflict with the local population. This has been noted by historians.

                        From an article about the Arab uprising of 1936-1939.

                        Since 1882, with the beginning of the Zionist movement, the immigration ("aliyah") of Jews to Palestine has increased. As a result, by the end of 1939, the proportion of Jews in the Palestinian population increased from four to thirty percent. The scale of Jewish immigration increased in the late 20s and early 30s in connection with the strengthening of the position of the Nazis in Germany: more than a quarter of the Jews who arrived in Palestine at this time came from Germany. In the preceding 1935 uprising alone, Jewish immigration totaled 62. According to B. Morris, one of the new historians, by 000 about 1939 million 1 thousand Arabs and about 70 thousand Jews lived in Palestine.

                        In the 1920s - 30s, increased purchase the Jews large tracts of land owned by wealthy Arab landowners, usually living outside Palestine... A. Bregman points out that these lands were inhabited by small Arab tenant peasants who had lived there for generations. According to Morris, they were often driven off the purchased land by new owners. At the same time, the ideologist of the Palestinian national movement Ghassan Kanafani admits that if in the early 20s three quarters of the land was acquired from owners living abroad, by the early 30s their share was already less than 15 percent, while 63 percent of the land was acquired from local landowners and about a quarter from the peasants themselves. Thousands of Arab families had to leave land and move to the outskirts of cities, sharply lowering their socio-economic status, and land prices in Palestine increased 1910 times from 1944 to 50.

                        A number of sources also note that Jewish immigration and the associated economic changes were not evil, but a blessing for local Arabs. Historian Kenneth Stein specifically mentions repeated attempts by the Jewish Agency to create an agricultural bank that would help strengthen the economic independence of the fellahs from large landowners. Jewish leaders hoped that by breaking free of dependence on local landowners, creditors and politicians, Arab farmers would appreciate the benefits of developing the Jewish sector. but the introduction of modern methods of management and, in particular, intensive irrigation, cultivation of citrus crops, poultry and cattle, fellahi met with apprehension, as it required them to abandon their usual way of life [... The works of the Israeli economist Yakov Metzer show that the Arab sector of Palestine under the mandate has developed intensively: the average growth rate was 4,5 percent per year (which is lower than the growth rate in the Jewish sector, but higher than the global rate and pace in neighboring Arab countries), and the peak this growth occurred precisely at the beginning of the 30s.

                        England's commitment to creating a "Jewish national home" in Palestine, backed by a League of Nations mandate, also worried Palestinian Arabs, who feared the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. as a result of a gradual change in the demographic composition due to immigration.

                        Thus, Jews who emigrated to Israel bought land from the Arabs. Not captured, not kicked out - but bought. That is, first, "primordially Arab land" was sold to Jews by Arab landowners who did not even live in Palestine (this is how they suffered in their homeland), and then by ordinary tenants.

                        Fair? Fair. Nobody drove anyone out - the Arabs sold the land themselves.

                        And then - oops - they were suddenly offended. And offended after:

                        - saw. that there are more and more Jews, and the possibility of the formation of an independent Israel has become illusory.

                        - saw that the land on which they, the Arabs, had barely grown, after the Jews had irrigated and properly cultivated it, suddenly became fertile.

                        These are all the reasons for the "Arab indignation".
                      7. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 10: 34
                        -1
                        Cyril, I heard your opinion on this issue.

                        Today these cunning people have seized power in Ukraine. Kolomoisky is president United Jewish Community of Ukraine, and his protege, Vladimir Zelensky, president of the country.

                        The organization includes 140 Jewish communities from all over Ukraine. The law on the sale of land has already been passed.

                        PS The Jews did not build Jerusalem. This city was built before the seizure of this land by the Jews.
                      8. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 10: 58
                        0
                        Today these cunning people have seized power in Ukraine. Kolomoisky is the president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine, his protégé, Volodymyr Zelensky, is the country's president.

                        What does Ukraine have to do with Israel? In the absence of arguments, you have the last resort - to move the arrows to Ukraine?

                        The Jews did not build Jerusalem. This city was built before the seizure of this land by the Jews.

                        First, Jerusalem in the form in which it is known in World History was founded by Jews. Before them, there really was a settlement of another people on this site, but it was Jerusalem that was built by the Jews.

                        Secondly, for example, Sevastopol was founded on the site of the earlier Greek settlement of Tauric Chersonesos. Will you give Sevastopol to the Greeks now?
                      9. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 12: 04
                        0
                        Cyril... Historians believe that Jerusalem became a city in the 17th century. BC, when Jerusalem was surrounded by the first wall. The Canaanites built the wall around the city and the city itself.

                        The same historians suggest that the ancient nomadic tribes of the Jews realized themselves as a people when they chose their first king.

                        The establishment of the kingdoms of the Jews and the emergence of the Israelite and later the Judean kingdoms dates back to the XNUMXth century BC. e. I hope you understand that the city arose much earlier.

                        Jews could not found this city, it was already founded. What did the Jews build in the occupied territories? Read books. Historically, many people lived on this territory ... both before the Jews and after the Jews.

                        PS I mentioned Ukraine because the people posing as Jews took power in Ukraine into their own hands.
                      10. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 12: 15
                        0
                        Historians believe that Jerusalem became a city in the 17th century. BC, when Jerusalem was surrounded by the first wall.

                        And I somewhere denied that before the seizure by the Jews there was a city in this place? Not.

                        The establishment of the kingdoms of the Jews and the emergence of the Israelite and later the Judean kingdoms dates back to the XNUMXth century BC. e. I hope you understand that the city arose much earlier.

                        Naturally, I understand, with mathematics everything is fine with me.

                        Jews could not found this city, it was already founded.

                        AND? I gave you an example of the Tauric Chersonesos founded by the Greeks, in the place of which Sevastopol now stands. Is Sevastopol a Greek city?

                        I mentioned Ukraine because the people posing as Jews took power in Ukraine into their own hands.

                        So what?
                      11. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 12: 19
                        -1
                        Quote: Cyril
                        So what?

                        Israel has no historical rights to its territories. yes hi
                      12. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 12: 20
                        -1
                        Israel has no historical rights to its territories.

                        That is, Russia also does not have any historical rights to Crimea and Sevastopol?
                      13. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 12: 26
                        -1
                        What does historical rights have to do with it? There was an expression of the will of the people of Crimea. This is a different topic.
                      14. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 12: 33
                        -1
                        Duc hurray-patriots also justify the annexation of the Crimea, including "historical right".

                        Moreover, even at the heart of the "right to self-determination of the people of Crimea" they point out precisely that this is "historically Russian land."

                        There was an expression of the will of the people of Crimea.

                        Well, the creation of the state of Israel was the will of the Jewish people. So what?
                      15. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 12: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Cyril
                        So what?

                        The war broke out, provoked by the Jews. And there was no expression of the will of the Jewish people. Tell me I'm wrong. smile
                      16. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 12: 47
                        0
                        The war broke out, provoked by the Jews.

                        How exactly did the Jews provoke the war? By the fact that they wanted to create their own state? That is, the right of the people to self-determination in our country is now provoking a war?
                      17. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 13: 05
                        -2
                        Cyril... We have already found out that the people of Palestine and the Jews, as part of this people, a small part of it, had the right to self-determination.

                        What kind of Jewish people are you talking about? Jews settled in different countries, but they are citizens of these countries and have nothing to do with the Palestinian people and their rights.
                      18. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 13: 17
                        -1
                        We have already figured out

                        We?

                        that the people of Palestine had the right to self-determination

                        There is no such people :)

                        What kind of Jewish people are you talking about?

                        About the present :) About the Jewish people, which has its own culture, customs, religion and history.

                        but they are citizens of these countries and have nothing to do with the Palestinian people and their rights.

                        Of course they do not) After all, there is no "Palestinian people". There is a Jewish population and an Arab population in the area called Palestine.

                        Moreover, even the Arabs themselves do not know such people :)

                        In particular, in 1937, Arab leaders told the members of the British Peel Commission that the term "Palestine" is generally a "Zionist invention"

                        The statement with the statement that Palestine belongs to Syria, and no "Palestinian people" exists, was also made by the President of Syria Hafez Assad. "Everyone knows that Palestine is nothing more than the southern part of Syria," asserted in 1956, before the United Nations General Assembly, the founder and first head of the PLO, Ahmed Shukeiri, at that time the representative of Saudi Arabia to the UN.

                        Palestinian leaders have repeatedly stated openly that the Palestinians are not a separate, special people. So, on March 14, 1977, in an interview with Newsweek magazine Head of the Politburo of the PLO Farouk Kaddumi said: "Jordanians and Palestinians are viewed by the PLO as one people."

                        Former head of the military department and member of the PLO Executive CouncilZuheir Mohsen (Zahir Muhsein) ruen, in 1977 in an interview with the Dutch newspaper Trau, denied the existence of the Palestinian people, and considered the creation of a Palestinian state only as “a means of continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for Arab unity ":

                        In fact, there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. They are all part of one (Arab) nation.

                        So what "Palestinian people" are you talking about?)
                      19. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 13: 21
                        0
                        Conversation is over.
                      20. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 13: 22
                        -2
                        Conversation is over.

                        Of course finished, you have nothing to cover. The Arabs themselves answered all your questions better than me :)
                      21. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
                        Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 22: 11
                        +1
                        The Zionists brought emigrants with Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Russian blood to Palestine from all over the world and declared them the descendants of Moses
                      22. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 21 March 2021 03: 00
                        0
                        The Zionists brought emigrants with Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Russian blood to Palestine from all over the world and declared them the descendants of Moses

                        Dukhokrepny, can I tell you how the genetic mulatto Pushkin or the Scots descendant Lermontov considered themselves to be Russians? Or did you still go to high school to know this?

                        Blood purity is not the only criterion for a person's ethnic self-identification.
                      23. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
                        Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 23 March 2021 12: 16
                        +2
                        The founders of Israel proclaimed this state as a hotbed of the Jewish people and the return of historical justice. What if not the purity of blood is the criterion? Why Senya from Zhitomir or Lieberman from Moldova, whose ancestors never lived in Palestine, have the right to this land, but the Palestinians, who have lived here for centuries, do not?
                      24. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 23 March 2021 14: 11
                        -1
                        The founders of Israel proclaimed this state as the hearth of the Jewish people.

                        Which does not mean at all that only Jews can live in Israel.

                        What, if not the purity of blood is a criterion?

                        Because among Jews, national identity is built primarily on historical and religious, not genetic criteria.

                        and the Palestinians who have lived here for centuries have not?

                        The Arabs were offered to create on the territory of Palestine 2 (in words - two) states - one Jewish and one Arab. There would be enough land for everyone.

                        The Arabs did not want to, they attacked Israel and naturally received the tinsel.

                        Moreover, the Palestinian Arabs do not consider themselves a separate people at all, they consider themselves simply Arabs. By the way, other Arabs do not consider the Palestinians to be any separate nation. I have already cited above the statements of the leaders of the League of Arab States, and the leader of Syria and other Arab leaders.
                      25. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 23 March 2021 18: 26
                        -2
                        Quote: Cyril
                        ... among the Jews, national identity is built primarily on historical and religious ...

                        CyrilWhat kind of Jews are you talking about now? laughing
                      26. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 23 March 2021 20: 45
                        -1
                        First of all, about those living in Israel. But in general, this is more or less characteristic of the majority of Jewish communities in the world.
                      27. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 23 March 2021 22: 16
                        -1


                        In her free time from prayer, Israel quietly became the leader of the sexual minorities. laughing
                      28. Cyril Offline Cyril
                        Cyril (Kirill) 24 March 2021 00: 11
                        -1
                        And what do you want to say by that?
                      29. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) 24 March 2021 01: 25
                        -1


                        A sensational scholarly study, this book by Tel Aviv University History Professor Shlomo Zanda is a scholarly perspective on the history of the Jewish people. (2010)
                  2. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
                    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 24 March 2021 18: 31
                    +1
                    Sephardic Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef said in November 2019 that goyim infected with Marxism and atheism were brought from the CIS countries. Only 4% are Halachic Jews.
            2. isofat Offline isofat
              isofat (isofat) 23 March 2021 19: 05
              -2
              DukhskrepnyThe main reason why the Zionists, despite their constant setbacks, do not stop looking for evidence of the commonality of all the Jews in the world, is actually simple:

              Quote: Shlomo Sand
              Each nation, according to an unwritten consensus common to most enlightened political concepts, has a collective right to own a certain territory in which it lives and which feeds it.

              On the other hand, a religious group as such, whose members have very different origins and, in addition, are scattered across different countries and continents, does not have the right to any specific territory.

              It is for this reason that the worldwide Jewish collective, united by religion and the biblical ethnos, cheerfully started a hundred years ago, and in the XNUMXst century has become an unsuccessful candidate for the sole proprietor of the Israeli national territory.
  2. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 11: 05
    -2
    Moreover, about Jerusalem, here's another interesting thing:

    In 1917-1947, Jerusalem was the administrative center of the British mandated territory of Palestine. On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (II) "Future Government of Palestine" on the division of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. The resolution called for special international regime for Jerusalemwhich was to be provided by the United Nations through the Trusteeship Council. Jewish Agency officials agree to partition plan, but Arab states and the representative of the Supreme Arab Committee rejected it, stating that they do not consider themselves bound by this resolution.

    That is, the Jews did not initially claim that Jerusalem was exactly an Israeli city, realizing that this city in its modern form was formed under the influence of Jews, and under the influence of Muslims, and under the influence of Christians.

    But the decision to make Jerusalem a "universal" city, equally dear to Jews and Arabs, was opposed by the Arabs themselves.

    So who is to blame for them?
  3. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 12: 15
    -1
    Cyril... This means that the Jews did not comply with this UN recommendation on the international status of Jerusalem. yes hi
  4. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 12: 19
    -2
    This means that the Jews did not comply with this UN recommendation on the international status of Jerusalem.

    belay

    Are you all right with your eyes and reading comprehension?

    I will quote again:

    In 1917-1947, Jerusalem was the administrative center of the British mandated territory of Palestine. On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (II) "Future Government of Palestine" on the division of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. The resolution provided for a special international regime for Jerusalemwhich was to be provided by the United Nations through the Trusteeship Council. Jewish Agency officials agree to partition planhowever, the Arab states and the representative of the Arab Supreme Committee rejected it, stating that they did not consider themselves bound by the resolution.

    The Jews just agreed with the UN recommendations. The Arabs did not agree with these recommendations and unleashed a war.

    As a result of this war, unleashed against Israel by the Arabs, he first captured the western part of the city, and during the Six Day War, he established complete control over it.
  5. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 13: 15
    0
    The UN General Assembly urged not to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
    (https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-42446766)
    Ha ha ha laughing
  6. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 13: 24
    -3
    The UN General Assembly urged not to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    So what? She also urged not to consider Crimea as the territory of Russia. Ha ha ha.
  7. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 13: 59
    -1
    Quote: Cyril
    So what?

    This means that the Jews did not fulfill the UN recommendation on the international status of Jerusalem.

    Quote: Cyril
    The Jews just agreed with the UN recommendations. The Arabs did not agree with these recommendations and unleashed a war.

    At the expense of Crimea, I don't know how to explain it to you ... Did I rely in my conclusions on the statement that we are fulfilling the UN recommendations on Crimea? Not.
    It turns out that you have failed to shift the responsibility onto the Palestinians.

    PS

    Palestinians are "older" than Jews. laughing
  8. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 14: 38
    -1
    This means that the Jews did not fulfill the UN recommendation on the international status of Jerusalem.

    Do you want to quote a third time?) Okay.

    In 1917-1947, Jerusalem was the administrative center of the British mandated territory of Palestine. On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (II) "Future Government of Palestine" on the division of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. The resolution provided for a special international regime for Jerusalem, which was to be provided by the United Nations through the Trusteeship Council. Jewish Agency officials agree to partition planhowever, the Arab states and the representative of the Arab Supreme Committee rejected it, stating that they did not consider themselves bound by the resolution.

    The Jews agreed to the plan for the partition of Palestine and the international status of Jerusalem. The Arabs disagreed and started a war. During the war unleashed against Israel, the Jews changed their mind and made Jerusalem Israeli.

    If the Arabs themselves did not want to fulfill the UN recommendations, then why should the Jews have?

    Did I rely in my conclusions on the statement that we are fulfilling the UN recommendations on Crimea?

    That is, you do not rely on UN resolutions on Crimea, but do you want Israel to comply with UN resolutions?)

    It turns out that you have failed to shift the responsibility onto the Palestinians.

    It completely worked out.

    Arabs themselves sold their lands to Jewish immigrants.

    The Arabs themselves did not agree to a completely fair plan for the partition of Palestine.

    The Arabs started a war against Israel.

    The responsibility lies entirely with the Arabs.

    About your PS.

    First, the opinion you quoted in the passage is not generally accepted in historiography.

    Second, to talk about a community of people as a separate the people, it must have the appropriate attributes, or at least most of them:

    - its own language (for the "Palestinians" it is Arabic, for the Jews it is Yiddish or Hebrew);
    - their religion (for the "Palestinians" it is all-Arab Islamic, for the Jews - their own Judaism);
    - their culture (customs, way of life, behavior patterns, etc.) (among the "Palestinians" they are no different from Arabs from other countries, among the Jews they are);
    - a special appearance (it is common Semitic among "Palestinians" and Jews);
    - its separate (geographically, historically and politically) territory of residence (but in history there has never been a state called Palestine, but the state of Israel or Judea was).

    And yet a community that claims to be a separate people must have a corresponding self-awareness. But the Palestinian Arabs never considered themselves a separate people, the leaders of the "Palestinian liberation movement" argued that the Arab population of Palestine is just Arabs, not a separate people.

    Actually, the Arabs from other countries did not consider them a separate people.

    I say it again, the Arabs themselves answered this question much better than I did.

    Jews fully fit the definition of the term "people" or "ethnos", the Palestinian Arabs do not.
  9. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 22: 13
    +1
    The Arabs unleashed the war

    but the land was seized by the Jews.
  10. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 21 March 2021 03: 03
    -2
    but the land was taken over by the Jews.

    Learn history. Jewish immigrants bought land from the Arabs before the formation of Israel. Do you know what a purchase is? This is a voluntary act of acceptance and transfer of property from one owner to another for money.

    The Jews paid, the Arabs sold "their" land. What claims can there be against Jews?

    Straight on Goebbels

    You are right about your lies you said. True, it does not reach the level of Goebbels, but you are making progress in this direction.
  11. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 16: 21
    +1
    The Zionists have grabbed more territory than it was supposed to. Sooner or later they will give
  12. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 16: 51
    -2
    The Zionists grabbed more territory than they should have.

    Israel would not have seized these territories if the Arabs had allowed him to calmly build their state within the borders outlined by the Palestine Partition Plan.

    The Arabs did not give, they started a war. What kind of relationship did they want after that?
  13. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 17: 21
    0
    Quote: Cyril
    The Arabs did not give, they started a war. What kind of relationship did they want after that?

    Cyril... And the Nazis, led by Hitler, would not have committed their atrocities if they had not resisted. It turns out that Adolf had no other choice.
  14. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 17: 30
    -3
    Isophat, commendable for your desire to use analogy as a means of argumentation. But before that, first learn how to make correct analogies.

    In the situation with Hitler, at first there were atrocities and discrimination on the part of the Nazis - then resistance to them.

    In the situation with the partition of Palestine, the Jews did not discriminate against anyone. They accepted the Plan for the partition of Palestine and the international status of Jerusalem. The Arabs did not accept and unleashed a war against Israel - for which they received a return.

    Leave your attempts to turn everything upside down and replace the theses with 123, it just appeared on the site. Will ride with him.
  15. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 18: 21
    +1
    Quote: Cyril
    ... But before that, first learn how to make correct analogies.

    Quote: Cyril
    Israel would not have seized these territories if the Arabs had allowed him to calmly build their own state

    Cyril, so Hitler reasoned the same way - Europe surrendered almost without a fight, and the Slavs do not want to recognize the superiority of the German race. Adolf and his Nazis killed more than twenty-five million Soviet residents.

    What are the correct analogies? These are the ones you like, am I right?

    PS Analogy is not proof; it helps the interlocutors to understand each other. It can be, for example, good or bad, bad or good. And what is "correct"? laughing
  16. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 19: 43
    -3
    so Hitler reasoned the same way

    Just like you and the Arabs, definitely

    Europe surrendered almost without a fight

    To Europe gave upHitler first untied war against her.

    Israel did not unleash a war against the Arabs - it was the Arabs who unleashed a war against it.

    Once again - use your childish attempts to replace theses with 123, it will work with him.

    What are the correct analogies? These are the ones you like, am I right?

    No, these are analogies that are based on the same or similar grounds. Your analogies are based on opposite grounds. Therefore they are false.

    Analogy is not proof

    Obviously, you haven't mastered the logic textbook. Or they didn’t take it at all.

    It can be, for example, good or bad, bad or good.

    There is no such classification.
  17. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 21: 07
    0
    Quote: Cyril
    Israel did not unleash a war against the Arabs - it was the Arabs who unleashed a war against it.

    If Israel had not seized foreign territories and declared them its state, then there would have been no war. Israel did not sit down at the negotiating table, it is an aggressor. Is that so or not?

    And this is a screenshot from part of the Logic textbook page. laughing


    Read carefully, analogy is not proof. laughing
    Using it this way is a logical mistake. And this error is called - an analogy error.
  18. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 21: 42
    -3
    If Israel had not seized foreign territories and declared them its state, then there would have been no war.

    So Israel did not seize foreign territories. Before the partition of Palestine, Jews bought land from Arabs-owners and Arabs-tenants, but the UN Charter and the Partition Plan gave him the legislative right to found a state on the allocated land.

    How many times do you have to repeat this before you get it? five? 5? 6? Or is it useless at all?

    Israel did not sit down at the negotiating table, it is an aggressor.

    Israel has not sat down at the negotiating table? He sat down at the negotiating table at the stage of discussing and agreeing on the plan - the Arabs refused to discuss it.

    On the eve of the UN decision on the Palestinian issue, the Yishuv delegation met with the leadership of the League of Arab States (LAS) in an attempt to work out a compromise solution on the division of spheres of influence in Palestine. This attempt was met with rejection. LAS General Secretary Azzam Pasha made it clear to the Jewish envoys that there would be no peaceful partition of Palestine and they (the Jews) would have to defend their right to any part of the Palestinian territory with arms in their hands[ten]. In October 10, he stated:

    ... it will be a war of annihilation, a lightning massacre, which will be remembered in the same way as the massacre of the Mongols or the Crusades


    Further, already during the War of Independence (1947-1949), when the First Armistice was established through the mediation of a UN representative on June 11, 1948:

    On July 9, the truce expired; attempts to extend it were supported by Israel and rejected by the Arab League

    Isophat, read history, study.

    And this is a screenshot from part of the Logic textbook page.

    What a fine fellow. However, I did not call analogy a method of proof, I called it a means of argumentation. Read at your leisure how "proof" differs from "argumentation".

    Well, if you really go deep into the relation to analogy exactly as a method of proof, then here is https://gtmarket.ru/concepts/7211

    For example, it is widely believed that a conclusion by analogy, having a heuristic function, cannot have an evidentiary function. This opinion is valid only with respect to some conclusions by analogy, in particular the generalized paradeigma. However, the similarity theory has already shown that there are certain conditions that admit a clear mathematical formulation, under which the conclusion by analogy, it is quite conclusive.
    Conditions of a more general nature can be formulated to an analogy of the type of isomorphism, structural-functional, functional-structural and other types of conclusions by analogy. Another group of conclusions by analogy does not give a conclusive result, however, here, too, there are rules under which the degree of a plausible conclusion can be significantly increased.
  19. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 20 March 2021 22: 16
    -1
    There is documentary footage where Ben-Gurion's comrade-in-arms complains that he did not listen to him and announced the creation of Israel earlier, a month would be enough for a peaceful solution of the issue, there would be no war and no casualties.

    About logic, you just don't want to understand me. It is for this purpose that I gave an example, you have a flawed conclusion.
    Finally, you once argued that analogy is proof:

  20. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 21 March 2021 02: 52
    -2
    There is documentary footage where Ben-Gurion's comrade-in-arms complains that he did not listen to him and announced the creation of Israel earlier, a month would be enough for a peaceful solution of the issue, there would be no war and no casualties.

    Isophat, stop fussing.

    What difference does it make to what Ben-Gurion's comrade-in-arms complained about and what hypothetical dates he named? These are just his guesses and assumptions.

    And here are the facts.

    Did the Jews offer the Arabs to negotiate directly? Offered. The Arabs refused - moreover, in an ultimatum, saying that the Jews need to prepare for a "war of extermination." I have quoted above. Is the party ready to negotiate talking about a war of annihilation? Only in your rosy fantasies.

    Did the Jews try to resolve the issue within the framework of the UN and international law? We tried. The whole world helped them - including the USSR. Who refused the UN-proposed plan for partitioning Palestine? Arabs.

    Did the Arabs offer some kind of peaceful alternative route? No, they didn't. They denied the very possibility of the existence of the State of Israel.

    You can spin as you like, but facts are stubborn things, and they are not in your favor.

    About logic, you just don't want to understand me.

    And how can you understand the absence of any logic in your reasoning? You are not just illogical - you are denying specific historical facts.

    Finally, you once argued that analogy is proof:

    So I do not give up my words. Read my quote above on the applicability of analogy as a method and argument and proof.

    And Chelpanov's textbook was written at the beginning of the 20th century. Logic has stepped far forward during that time.
  21. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 21 March 2021 15: 36
    0


    And voi and footage, where Ben-Gurion's ally complains that he did not listen to him and announced the creation of Israel. This is one of the proofs of who actually started the war.

    PS There are many documentary evidence about those events.
  22. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 21 March 2021 18: 18
    -1
    And voi and footage, where Ben-Gurion's ally complains that he did not listen to him and announced the creation of Israel. This is one of the proofs of who actually started the war.

    To declare the creation of your own independent state means to start a war? Baaaaatyushki ... you just don't tell Crimea and Donbass, they won't understand.

    In this film, there is a lot of documentary evidence of those events.

    I'll take a look at it, of course. But even the Soviet people themselves did not have much confidence in Soviet agitation.

    Israeli, - I say, - militarist
    Known to the whole world!
    Like a mother, I say, and like a woman
    I demand them to answer!
  23. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 21 March 2021 19: 08
    -1
    Quote: Cyril
    To declare the creation of your own independent state means to start a war?

    Do not juggle or jerk. smile
    The announcement of the State of Israel was on disputed territory, this is an act of aggression. In order to prevent war, it was possible to negotiate for three months.

    At the expense of propaganda, the film is based on facts. Or do you want to say that a Soviet artist is broadcasting to us from the screen, and not a direct participant in those events?
  24. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 21 March 2021 19: 50
    -1
    The declaration of the State of Israel was on the disputed territory, and this is an act of aggression.

    Firstly, this territory was not "contested" - it was under a British mandate. And it was the British administration that ordered what to do on it and what not. It was the British leadership that decided to create 2 states on the territory of Palestine and handed over the implementation of this decision to a special UN commission, which had already developed a specific partition plan.

    So the Jews did everything within the framework of both the decision of the British administration and the decision of the UN commission, for which most countries voted.

    So no, the announcement of the creation of the State of Israel was not an act of aggression.

    In order to prevent war, it was possible to negotiate for three months.

    You once again quote the words of the Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, which he said to the Jewish delegation, who came to him for negotiations? Okay, it doesn't reach you, you have to repeat several times:

    there will be no peaceful partition of Palestine and their right to any part Palestinian Territories to them (Jews) have to defend with arms in hand

    How much longer do you need to negotiate with a counterparty adhering to this position? 3 months? Maybe 6 months? Maybe 10 years old? Do you have a device that predicts when the Arabs will be short in their heads and they will at least agree to consider the possibility of a peaceful solution to this issue? So share it with the Israelis.

    At the expense of propaganda, the film is based on facts.

    On what facts it is based - I'll see.

    Or do you want to say that a Soviet artist is broadcasting to us from the screen, and not a direct participant in those events?

    Not on your nelly. Here are just any arguments in favor of the fact that the Arabs would agree to peace negotiations in a month, he did not give. He simply said that this time would be enough. Why exactly a month would have been enough, what arguments he would use in negotiations with the Arabs - he did not say anything of this. He said one thing, Ben-Gurion said another. So what?

    Well, in general, it's funny to hear about the "evil invader Israel" from the country (I'm talking about the USSR, if you suddenly didn't understand), whose leadership during the First Arab-Israeli War:

    - actively contributed to the implementation of the plan for the partition of Palestine into 2 independent states;

    - recognized Israel immediately following the declaration of independence;

    - helped the Israelis with the supply of weapons and the immigration of Jews from the USSR who wanted to participate in the war.

    Here's the cherry on the cake:

    In the newspaper Pravda, dated May 30, 1948, an opinion was expressed, reflecting the then course of the USSR's foreign policy in the Middle East: Arabs are not fighting for their national interests, nor for their independence, but against the right of the Jews to create their own independent state. Despite all his sympathy for the national liberation movement of the Arab people, the Soviet people condemn the aggressive policydriven by against Israel».

    So, in fact, all the "documentary facts" of your film are not worth a damn.

    But you can keep spinning in the pan - it's fun to watch, yes.
  25. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 21 March 2021 23: 05
    0
    Quote: Cyril
    First, the territory was not "contested" - it was under a British mandate.

    Cyril... What people will agree with the colonization of their country by strangers who do not want to coexist with them and even strive to create a national state exclusively for themselves? The territorial issue has not been resolved even now.

    So no, the announcement of the creation of the State of Israel was an act of aggression.
    The Palestinians interpreted this announcement as an occupation, I agree with them.

    Quote: Cyril
    Would you like to quote once again the words of the Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, which he said to the Jewish delegation that came to him for negotiations?

    Give the source, I want to make sure that it was at this time that Azzam Pasha uttered these words, and not another.

    Quote: Cyril
    How much longer do you need to negotiate with a counterparty adhering to this position?

    Israel was quite satisfied with the UN plan, the Jews were not interested in making concessions to the Palestinians, as well as negotiating with them!

    Now about the plan itself.
    The UN plan left one million and a quarter Palestinians only 45% of the territory of Palestine, while the six hundred thousand colonialists were given 55%. But that's not all! According to this plan, about four hundred thousand Palestinians, that is, about a third, were to remain, along with their land, in the Jewish state.

    Quote: Cyril
    He said one thing, Ben-Gurion said another. So what?

    It is a fact that Ben-Gurion refused the offer to postpone, and it is also a fact that the warning sounded came true!
  26. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 22 March 2021 03: 37
    -1
    Which people will agree to colonization of his country strangers

    Which "home country"? Open the history textbook again, no state of Palestine has ever existed. "Own country" after the collapse of the Roman Empire was conquered first by the crusaders, then by the Arabs, then by the Turks, then by the British. This time.

    Two - Palestinian Arabs themselves for a sweet soul were selling their land (for money) to Jewish immigrants. They realized it only when they saw that the Jews Bought they have a huge amount of land.

    Since when did the purchase of property become an act of aggression? When you buy an apartment from someone, do you also show an act of aggression?

    unwilling to coexist with them and even seeking to create a nation state exclusively for themselves?

    First, stop lying - the Jews before the war never said or showed by deed that they did not want to peacefully coexist with the Arabs. On the contrary, they regularly looked for an opportunity to negotiate with the Arabs on peaceful coexistence directly.

    Second, stop lying again - the Jews were not against the creation of a national Arab state on the territory allocated by the UN Plan for the Partition of Palestine for the Arabs.

    Third, stop lying - the Israeli leadership, while declaring the state of Israel a Jewish state, never said that other peoples - including the Arabs - could not live in it. And these peoples enjoy absolutely the same rights as the Jews, if they are citizens of Israel and do not participate in the terrorist struggle against it.

    The Palestinians interpreted this announcement as an occupation, I agree with them.

    They (and you along with them) could regard it as they liked. It was not an occupation. If some person calls, say, a bird a snake, the bird will not become a snake from this.

    Give the source, I want to make sure that it was at this time that Azzam Pasha uttered these words, and not another.

    here's a detailed breakdown:

    https://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat#_ftn9 - здесь о том, как Аззам говорит о войне на истребление. Приведен скан арабской газеты (с указание даты), где это упоминается.

    This article also contains an interview with Azzam, given by him at the Pan-Arab summit in the city of Alei - a quote of his words:

    “The Arab is superior to the Jew in that he accepts defeat with a smile: if the Jews defeat us in the first battle, we will defeat them in the second or third battle ... or in the last battle ... while one defeat will crush us. Morality of the Jews! Most desert Arabs enjoy fighting. I remember being tasked with making a truce in the desert war (in which I fought) that lasted nine months ... As I was about to sign a truce, some of my comrades-in-arms approached me and said to me, “Shame on you ! You are a man of the people, so how could you wish to end the war ... How can we live without war? " It's because war gives Bedouins a sense of happiness, bliss and security that peace does not! ...

    Attention - Azzam is openly proud that his fellows from the desert cannot live without war and receive a sense of bliss and happiness from it.

    Attention - this is what the leader of the Arab League is talking about his own brethren. The Arab talks about the Arabs. Not a Jew, but an Arab.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241652915 - здесь на странице 13 в ПДФ-файле рассказывается о том, как делегация евреев за 2 месяца до рассмотрения Резолюции ООН о Плане разделения Палестины попыталась вести переговоры с Аззамом. Цитата:

    On 15 September 1947, a couple of months before the passing of the UN Partition Resolution, the Jewish Agency made yet another attempt to convince the Arab world of the merits of partition... At a secret meeting with Azzam in London, Aubrey (Abba) Eban and David Horovitz, the Jewish Agency's liaison officers with UNSCOP, tried to convince their interlocutor that 'once agreement had been reached on a practical compromise such as that suggested by UNSCOP, it should not be difficult to convince the Arab world that it had nothing to fear from Jewish development, and that no threat of Jewish expansion would exist'. Azzam remained unimpressed. 'The Arab world is not at all in a compromising mood ', he said.

    You will achieve nothing with talk of compromise or peace... You may perhaps achieve some-thing by force of your arms. We will try to rout you. I am not sure we will succeed, but we will try. We succeeded in expelling the Crusaders, hut lost Spain and Persia, and may lose Palestine. But it is too late for a peaceable solution.'

    Then came Sasson's above-noted plea to Azzam to accept the idea of ​​partition and to forego recourse to violence. No response ever came from Azzam.

    Attention, before Ben-Gurion's declaration of Israel's independence (May 11, 1948), there are still 9 whole months, and Azzam says:

    The Arab world is not at all in a compromising mood is not at all in a compromise mood)

    и

    But it is too late for a peaceable solution.

    In other words, as much as 9 months before Israel's declaration of independence, the Arabs deny any possibility of a peaceful compromise.

    So what kind of "could you wait another month to achieve peace" are you talking about?

    Links to all of these statements are in both articles.

    Israel was quite happy with the UN plan

    Certainly.

    Jews were not interested in making concessions to the Palestinians, nor were they interested in negotiating with them!

    Lying. I gave specific examples of attempts by Jews to settle the problem peacefully.
  27. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 22 March 2021 12: 43
    -1
    Quote: Cyril
    Which "home country"? Open the history textbook again, no state of Palestine ever existed

    Cyril... Oooh ... how everything is running! And to this stupid I am trying to explain something!

    The country - it is a territory that has political, physical-geographical, cultural or historical boundaries, which can be either clearly defined and fixed, or blurred.

    State - the political form of the organization of society in a certain territory, the political-territorial sovereign organization of public power, which has an apparatus of government and coercion, to which the entire population of the country is subject.

    I'm tired of commenting on the rest of your absurdities. By the way, do not pass off the word pasha as the truth.

    You interpret the words of Azzama Pasha as you please, although this is a controversial issue and there are at least two opposite interpretations of the words of Pasha. Moreover, the quote, when used by the Zionists, is incomplete, and in your presentation too. hi
  28. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 22 March 2021 13: 20
    -2
    PS The unclean beguiled. It should be written like this - ... is incomplete.
  29. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 22 March 2021 21: 19
    -1
    Cyril. Oooh ... how everything is running! And to this stupid I am trying to explain something!

    Isophat, I understand that you have an extremely poor vocabulary, so I will throw you a couple of links to dictionaries. so that you can see with your own eyes that the word "country" is ambiguous, and is also used as a synonym for the word "state".

    A COUNTRY
    1. The state. Capitalist countries. Countries of the Middle East. Industry of the country. President of the country. Parliament of the country. Railways of the country. The country's external debt.
    2. Terrain, territory allocated by geographic location and natural conditions. Gornaya s. Warm countries. Mysterious countries. Karelia - s. rivers and lakes. Turkmenistan - with. deserts. Antarctica - with. ice. S. light (one of the four sides of the horizon: east, west, south, north).
    ◊ The Promised Land (see The Promised).

    Great Dictionary of Russian language. - 1st ed.: St. Petersburg: Norint, S. A. Kuznetsov. 1998

    country
    1) a) Territory, has its own government or
    ruled by another state.

    b) The population of such a territory.
    2) Locality, territory, region.

    Efremova TF Explanatory dictionary of the Russian language.

    The next time you try to catch me again, first take the trouble to find out if the concepts with which you operate have several meanings. And clarify what meaning you mean specifically. Unlike you, I am not a charlatan who claims that he can get into the head of another person.

    Well, at the same time, you will get into less trouble.

    I'm tired of commenting on the rest of your absurdities.

    Quit spinning, Isophat. You just have nothing to cover my arguments with. Don't try to keep a good face on your bad game.

    You interpret the words of Azzama Pasha as you please, although this is a controversial issue and there are at least two opposite interpretations of the words of Pasha.

    Isophat, only your inflamed mind can interpret the phrase "The Arab world is not at all in a compromising mood" somehow differently.

    Moreover, the quote, when used by the Zionists,

    I gave you the words of Azzam from two sources - Arabic (with a screen of an Arabic newspaper) and Jewish. If you can only read Jewish sources - well, it happens. But don't contact me with this problem, but a specialist psychiatrist.
  30. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 22 March 2021 03: 38
    0
    Now about the plan itself.
    The UN plan left one million and a quarter Palestinians only 45% of the territory of Palestine, while the six hundred thousand colonialists were given 55%. But that's not all! According to this plan, about four hundred thousand Palestinians, that is, about a third, were to remain, along with their land, in the Jewish state.

    First, the Commission divided the territory of Palestine by region of residence of the Arab and Jewish population, taking into account the geographical specifics of the region. Were the Jews to blame for the fact that the Arabs compactly settled only 45% of the territory, which had never even been their state?

    Secondly. Yes, indeed, a significant part of the Arab population remained in the Jewish sector (as well as some of the Jews lived in the Arab). The Plan provided that after the Partition and the formation of 2 independent states, special corridors will be organized for all those wishing to move to their sector. Naturally, if an Arab or a Jew living in a foreign sector had some property there, then they helped him move the movable, and compensated for the loss of the immovable in a new place after he moved to his sector.

    It was not an easy, but quite realistic Plan, in which at least the most painful moments were taken into account. Naturally, the full implementation of this plan would take some time. Naturally, some shortcomings were also possible - but all of them could subsequently be peacefully resolved within the framework of international agreements.

    Therefore, the Jews, who had recently experienced the loss of 6 million of their fellows, agreed with the Plan, with all its inconveniences. Because they understood that after the Holocaust, some organizational problems were annoying, but a simple matter of time and compromises.

    The Palestinian Arabs rested their horns, agreeing neither to the proposal of the Jews nor to the proposal of the UN.

    It is a fact that Ben-Gurion refused the offer to delay,

    No, Isophat. It is a fact that Ben-Gurion not only did not hurry, but even too delayed (by as much as 9 months) with the declaration of independence, waiting for the UN resolution to come into force.

    and also, the fact is that the warning sounded came true!

    No, Isophat. It is a fact that this "warning" would have come true in any case, time or not time of Ben-Gurion's declaration of independence. Because long before that, the Arab League leader openly declared that the Arabs did not want any compromise.

    You can turn around as much as you like, try to make poor lambs out of the Arabs, who are offended by the "evil occupiers". But historical documents, facts and even the Arabs themselves openly admitted that the Arabs were not looking for any compromise and peaceful solution to this problem at that time.

    Some Arabs (Egyptians, Jordanians) began to look for a peaceful solution only when Israel broke off their horns 3 times.

    That's all.
  31. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 22 March 2021 12: 44
    -1
    Cyril... Well, in conclusion, I cannot miss your already completely outright lie, namely:

    Quote: Cyril
    It is a fact that this "warning" would have come true in any case, time or not time of Ben-Gurion's declaration of independence.

    A statement that cannot be directly confirmed or refuted is called an assumption or opinion.

    We will never know how events developed, Ben-Gurion did not heed the recommendations and warning.

    Don't call your assumptions a fait accompli. hi
  32. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 22 March 2021 21: 27
    -1
    A statement that cannot be directly confirmed or refuted is called an assumption or opinion.

    We will never know how events developed, Ben-Gurion did not heed the recommendations and warning.

    The fact of the matter, Isofat, is that Ben-Gurion, at least 9 months before Israel's declaration of independence, listened to recommendations and warnings.

    And during these at least 9 months the position of the Arabs has not changed.

    You can, of course, wait all your life. You are not responsible for anything anyway, except for your couch. Ben-Gurion was responsible for his people, and this people was in the face of great danger in the form of the aggregate pack of Arab countries. He did not have time to wait until the Azzam's (words of Azzam) turn off their love for war.
  33. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 22: 18
    +1
    The Arabs know the Zionists too well. Under screams about "incredible suffering", having written out indulgences for themselves, Jews always commit lawlessness and are ready to squeeze someone else's land at every opportunity. wall and not only for Crimea
  34. Cyril Offline Cyril
    Cyril (Kirill) 21 March 2021 02: 54
    -2
    At the end of World War II, the Zionists tried to privatize Crimea through the JAC

    Evidence? And then Stalin had such a small feature - he had enough denunciations to put someone to the wall.
  35. isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 21 March 2021 17: 16
    -1
    Dukhskrepnythanks for the hint. I realized that the transfer of the Crimean region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR could well have been one of the steps to "squeeze" Crimea from Russia.

    I am aware of attempts to change the status of Crimea. For example, a project to create a Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic in Crimea was proposed in 1952. This is not the only attempt to "squeeze" Crimea.

    PS Here I stumbled across, I myself have not read it to the end.
    (https://topwar.ru/28194-kak-krym-chut-izrailem-ne-stal.html)
  • Fourth Offline Fourth
    Fourth (Fourth) 19 March 2021 16: 48
    +5
    Quote: Cyril
    Nobody pulled the Iranian Ayatollah by the tongue so that he ranted about the destruction of Israel as "a cancerous tumor that needs to be rooted out."

    Don't talk nonsense, there is a lot at stake.
    I hope you don’t think that for the many aggressive words of American politicians Russia should start bombing the United States?
    Israel, a cunning and cunning aggressor. He provokes and blames his victims before robbing them.
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 17: 03
      -5
      Don't talk nonsense

      I don’t speak. Iranian statesmen say nonsense.

      There is a lot at stake.

      Tell the Iranian Ayatollahs about it.

      I hope you don’t think that for the many aggressive words of American politicians Russia should start bombing the United States?

      Can you give me an example of an official statement by the American president about the need to "wipe Russia off the face of the earth"?

      Israel, a cunning and cunning aggressor. He provokes and blames his victims before robbing them.

      First read the history of Arab-Israeli warriors - maybe you will understand who the aggressor is.
  • Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 21: 29
    0
    Especially after he was appointed guilty of the September 11.09.2001, 2003 attack. In XNUMX.

    Did I miss something? Where and when did this happen? Have you confused the Persians with the Arabs? Iran with SA? One may wonder why the terrorists were the Saudis and bombed Afghanistan? But what does Iran have to do with it?
    1. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 20 March 2021 00: 09
      +2
      https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5aeee35a9a79475b8fe8179b
      1. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
        Alexzn (Alexander) 20 March 2021 00: 31
        -2
        This is not a political decision, but a judicial one ... You need to know the specifics of Anglo-Saxon law, especially in the US version. Take it as a curiosity, nothing more.
        1. boriz Offline boriz
          boriz (boriz) 20 March 2021 17: 20
          +4
          This is just one of the manifestations. Iran was declared guilty of financing this terrorist attack.
          After all, the court decision must be based on something. Of course, you do not want to consider Iran unjustly accused. You are more comfortable and accustomed to consider him to be guilty of everything.
          And I just took the first post on this topic offhand.

          Take it as a curiosity, nothing more.

          I don’t know your attitude to money, but for me $ 50 billion is not a curiosity.
          https://www.gazeta.ru/business/2016/04/22/8192573.shtml
          in 2002. Bush Jr. declared Iran part of the axis of evil and seized the assets.

          Tehran can be indignant as much as it wants, but it will not receive the money that is in Citibank. Moreover, it is likely that he will not be able to return a cent at all from accounts in the United States and Europe (according to estimates, this is about $ 50 billion). After all, there are still several similar lawsuits on the way, and Iran, despite curtailing its nuclear program in exchange for lifting sanctions (an agreement on this was reached in July 2015), has not received full access to its assets.

          This is where all the Israelis are. Hear and know only what you want. And you declare the rest to be fools who do not understand anything. And to delve into what you do not like, do not want from the word "absolutely".
          You think that I have to arrange political information for you, chew on and put in your mouth well-known truths, and you will arrogantly dismiss it.
          And then you are surprised at the attitude towards you.
  • Diver d Offline Diver d
    Diver d (Oleg) 23 March 2021 19: 24
    0
    Dear author! I think, before publishing the text, it would not be superfluous to check the spelling of the name of the Chief of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces. This is not Amir Kochavi, but Aviv Kochavi. (Hebrew אביב כוכבי). Amir, this is an Arabic name and has absolutely nothing to do with the name of the Chief of the General Staff. When you write text, I think it would not be superfluous to check. And so, in my opinion, a lot of what has been written has been sucked from the finger, excuse me.
  • 123 Online 123
    123 (123) 19 March 2021 14: 51
    +5
    At the same time, he stressed that the response to the rocket attacks would be a large-scale attack on enemy targets both in open and built-up areas.

    How they diplomatically announce their readiness to bomb cities.
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 16: 32
      -7
      Can you imagine a war without bombing cities?
      1. boriz Offline boriz
        boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 16: 41
        +7
        This is a preemptive strike by Israel. And Israel is planning it.
        If you are interested in history, you should know that the bombing of cities is always explained by chance. Even if they are secretly planning. After WWII, the British aviation commander had to leave for South Africa. In England he was ostracized for bombing GERMAN cities.
        And here you are portraying such a harsh and merciless warrior ...
        1. Cyril Offline Cyril
          Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 16: 59
          -6
          If you are interested in history, you should know that the bombing of cities is always explained by chance.

          Don't talk nonsense. “Accidents” or “undesirable but inevitable losses” explain civilian casualties, not the bombing of cities as such. And no one is planning them "on the sly" - strikes on industrial and transport centers that are located - you will not believe - in cities are an essential part of planning any military campaign.

          After WWII, the British aviation commander had to leave for South Africa. In England he was ostracized for bombing GERMAN cities.

          He was criticized not for the bombing of cities as such, but for its orientation specifically against the civilian population, which resulted in the excessive death of civilians who did not formally fall under the "combatants".

          This is a preemptive strike by Israel. And Israel is planning it.

          The Israeli prime minister's words are as follows (taken from your article):

          At the same time, he stressed that the response to rocket attacks would be a large-scale attack on enemy targets, both in the open and in built-up area.

          He did not say anything that the strikes would be targeted at residential buildings. "Built-up area" - it can be an economic, industrial, military part of the city.
          1. boriz Offline boriz
            boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 18: 01
            +7
            Do not bullshit.

            You control yourself.
            I imagine where such objects are located. And I have no doubt that it is better than you even before you were born. These are the objects that need to be bombed. And the victims of the civilian population are the error of the pilots' work. This is called "accidents".
            He had his own logic about the combatants. The people worked in factories and infrastructure facilities. So it is necessary to make sure that the objects remain, but do not work.
            And in the event of a strike on operating nuclear facilities, vast territories will be contaminated. Where they did not shoot. And there people live.

            The Israeli prime minister's words are as follows (taken from your article):

            At the same time, he stressed that the response to the rocket attacks would be a large-scale attack on enemy targets both in open and built-up areas.

            More attentively. This was the chief of the General Staff speaking. And his statements were slightly cut off by the media, I wrote about this. And the rocket attacks will be the result of a planned preemptive Israeli strike.
            When such a mess begins, no one will make out what is flying where. In Belgrade, if you don't know, the Americans covered the Chinese embassy. Then they apologized.
            1. Cyril Offline Cyril
              Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 18: 18
              -5
              I imagine where such objects are located. And I have no doubt that it is better than you even before you were born. These are the objects that need to be bombed.

              So you have no idea. Once again - many military and military-industrial, as well as transport facilities are located in the city At least take a look at the map of Moscow.

              He had his own logic about the combatants. The people worked in factories and infrastructure facilities. So it is necessary to make sure that the objects remain, but do not work.

              The objects were also damaged. The bombing of the civilian population of Dresden, Hamburg and some other cities was carried out for a number of reasons - including yes, for maximum demoralization of the enemy population.

              Is it cruel? Cruel. But it was not the British and the Americans who started this war.

              And in the event of a strike on operating nuclear facilities, vast territories will be contaminated. Where they did not shoot. And there people live.

              So no one is forcing Iran to place nuclear facilities in their country.

              More attentively. This was the chief of the General Staff speaking.

              Yes, I'm sorry. But this does not negate the essence of the statement.

              And the rocket attacks will be the result of a planned preemptive Israeli strike.

              So Israel would not have considered the possibility of a preemptive strike on targets if Iran had not threatened it with destruction.

              In Belgrade, if you don't know, the Americans covered the Chinese embassy. Then they apologized.

              What to do - no one is safe from mistakes (however, it may not have been a mistake).
              1. boriz Offline boriz
                boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 19: 19
                +5
                But it was not the British and the Americans who started this war.

                Formally, it was France and the World Bank that declared war on Germany.

                So no one is forcing Iran to place nuclear facilities in their country.

                And what if it arrives at the Israeli nuclear facility? Israel will have worse.

                So you have no idea. Once again - many military and military-industrial, as well as transport facilities are located within the city.

                Once again: I worked for them before you were born. So you need to shoot at the object. Wrong - your fault, you have to hit.

                So Israel would not have considered the possibility of a preemptive strike on targets if Iran had not threatened it with destruction.

                Was Iraq also threatening? Here is Israel's presence of nuclear weapons and its behavior makes Iran create nuclear weapons.
                1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                  Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 19: 46
                  -3
                  Formally, it was France and the World Bank that declared war on Germany.

                  But even earlier, it was Germany that attacked Poland, whose allies were France and Britain. It was Germany who unleashed the war.

                  And even more so, it was Germany that first began to bomb residential areas of London and other British cities. First, as part of Operation Blitz, then - with V-1 missiles and V-2 missiles.

                  And what if it arrives at the Israeli nuclear facility? Israel will have worse.

                  Therefore, a plan for a possible preemptive strike is being worked out. So as not to come.

                  So you need to shoot at the object. Wrong - your fault, you have to hit.

                  You are off topic. The conversation is not about whether or not it is necessary to shoot a bullet into the object, but what the words of the Israeli general about possible strikes on buildings mean.

                  Once again - even if you hit strictly on the object that will be located in the city - you will still hit the city, hit the building.

                  Iraq also threatened?

                  Iraq and Israel do not have formal diplomatic relations, since the former does not recognize the latter’s right to exist. Iraq declared war on the newly formed Jewish state in 1948 and since then, relations between the two countries have remained neutral at best. The Iraqi army took part in a number of wars against Israel in 1967 and 1973... In 1981, Israel, fearing another attack from Iraq, bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor under construction at Al-Tuwaita, southeast of Baghdad, claiming it was a threat to its national security. Iraq did not respond. During the Gulf War, Iraq launched 39 modified Scud ballistic missiles at Israel, despite the fact that there was no threat to Iraq from Israel at the time. Israel, under US pressure, did not respond.

                  He did not just threaten, but actively implemented these threats.
                  1. boriz Offline boriz
                    boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 19: 57
                    +5
                    The war began as a German-Polish war. The union was not forced to conclude. Concluded - do it. They did not move. They did not fulfill their obligations - Hitler offered to conclude peace after the fall of Poland. Nobody threatened France and the World Bank. They did not want to - Hitler defended his country from the countries that declared war on him. Everything is in your logic.
                    You are all in one logic. Or panties, or a cross.
                    And then, I really think, are you from Israel?
                    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
                      Cyril (Kirill) 19 March 2021 20: 13
                      -4
                      The war began as a German-Polish war.

                      And it continued as a world one.

                      The union was not forced to conclude.

                      Likewise, no one forced Germany to attack Poland, of which France and Britain were allies.

                      The conclusion of peace alliances is not an act of unleashing a war, but an attack on other countries - yes, it is.

                      So no, it was Germany that unleashed World War II. And this is:

                      They did not want to - Hitler defended his country from the countries that declared war on him.

                      does not follow from my logic.

                      You are all in one logic. Or panties, or a cross.

                      So I approach everyone with the same logic.

                      And then, I really think, are you from Israel?

                      No, not from Israel.
    2. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
      Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 21: 21
      -3
      Not correct. A feature of the 1967 and 1973 wars was the minimal use by all sides of the army against civilian targets. Israel has always made it clear that it will refrain from bombing cities if the opposing side does the same.
      Talking about Iran early. Headquarters and the Minister of Defense said that in the event of missile attacks on residential facilities in Israel, we will not limit ourselves to attacks only on military facilities. This approach began to be voiced after the second Lebanese war.
  • Alexzn Offline Alexzn
    Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 15: 19
    -4
    Compilation of news, compilation of conclusions, compilation of estimates, but everything is very superficial and contradictory. The headline contains a statement about the need for war, it is also urgent, but there are 4 days before the elections, and no one stutters about the war at all. Nothing extraordinary happened in matters of war. Comparison of the Israeli political system with the Ukrainian one is far-fetched. The assumption that Iran has nuclear weapons is ridiculous, 500 gr. explosives for a hole in the skin of a dry cargo ship of 2m2 is even more ridiculous.
    At the exit, instead of analyzing the situation, we received a set of gossip from an author who is not very familiar with Israeli realities.
    1. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 16: 28
      +4
      Where did I compare political systems? This is about the psychology of people.

      Iran's nuclear weapon assumption is ridiculous

      Justify. Israel doesn't have it either.
      This is a WWII battleship. And not about the underwater side of this vessel. There is a photo of these holes in the net. An irregular hole in the dimensions of 1,5 m. Just half a kilo. It is not so small, it is enough to smash a passenger car. And, you see, this is not an anti-ship missile. Moreover, two, according to the number of holes. A ship from two would have come kapets.
      No one stutters about the war, but a preemptive strike plan is ready. People both remember and know how it looks in nature (who were younger in history). In Iraq there was not a working reactor yet, but in Iran now all objects are working. Infection will be something else.

      Nothing extraordinary happened in matters of war.

      Of course, sabotage against Iranian ships is regular. A dozen since the end of 2019, not weak, it's a matter of everyday life. And a couple more recently. And all this is superimposed on the plans for a preemptive strike. Should Iran play terpily ?.
      I, of course, understand that this is most likely for internal use. The Israeli people like a little chutzpah. They taught me. Pepper before feeding. But pre-election exercises can go too far.
      You also tell us that Israel has nothing to do with the murders of Suleimani and Fahrizadeh.
      And this is not called compilation, but comparative analysis.
      1. Binder Online Binder
        Binder (Miron) 19 March 2021 20: 29
        -4
        Quote: boriz
        The Israeli people like a little chutzpah.

        The Israeli people, like any other people on the planet, like a normal, happy life and the absence of threats of destruction from the lips of religious Islamic obscurantists. That is why the army and other power structures of the Jewish state are confronting the Iranian threat and are acting in different ways.

        Quote: boriz
        You also tell us that Israel has nothing to do with the murders of Suleimani and Fahrizadeh.

        I think it has the most direct.

        Quote: boriz
        And Iran does not directly say this (about nuclear weapons). And Iran does not have a direct border with Israel. To demolish two cities with conventional weapons at such a distance is unrealistic.

        I can say with full responsibility - the ayatollahs have no nuclear weapons, the Iranian general's threats are an ordinary bluff, with the slightest suspicion that the Persians are approaching real possession of nuclear weapons, the Israelis will strike a crushing blow on key nuclear facilities and the Iranian military-industrial complex, after which Iran, most likely, on for many years will cease to pose a threat to anyone at all.
        1. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
          Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 21: 50
          +1
          For 30 years, Israel has been threatening to strike at Iran, but it does not and will not strike
          1. Binder Online Binder
            Binder (Miron) 20 March 2021 22: 07
            -1
            Everything is exactly the opposite - the Persians immediately after their 1979 Islamic revolution. declared that their goal is the destruction of Israel. Since then, they have been threatening. And the Israelis are closely monitoring the situation and periodically deliver precise and very painful blows to prevent the Persians from carrying out their threats. Moreover, the Iranians do not dare to retaliate, although they are fanatics, they do not understand how it will end for them.
      2. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
        Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 20: 58
        -4
        This is not benchmarking, but compilation. It is not very scary, but there are many Israelis on this site for whom it is very superficial. Maybe the Russians will take this as a comparative analysis.
        Comparison of politicians is not correct precisely because of the difference in political systems and political culture.
        Iran definitely does not have nuclear weapons! No serious source has any doubts about this. The example with Israel is not successful. Israel is pursuing a policy of uncertainty, but no one doubts the existence of it. In the modern world, it is extremely unlikely that nuclear weapons will appear without it being fixed by means of tracking and reconnaissance.
        About terpily, etc. - not to me. An undercover war has been fought, is and will continue to be fought (including sabotage), but where does Netanyahu have and the need for war? There were no special military actions that Bibi could write down in an additional piggy bank for the elections. Perhaps he would not be forgiven for such an attempt to manipulate a voter in the elections. This is especially true for the Iranian direction. The Israelis understand that the conflict with Iran is not with Lebanon or even Syria, especially when there is not Trump in the White House, but Biden.
        1. boriz Offline boriz
          boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 21: 05
          +4
          Nevertheless, the "attack" of the Israeli ship and the hype around it look exactly like a part of the election show. And the haste and absurdity of argumentation. Poorly choreographed show. And the subsequent attack on the Iranian ship.

          We were attacked - we responded swiftly. Your safety is in good hands while ...

          Such a logic.
          And everything is impossible on time.
          And national specificity has nothing to do with it.
          1. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
            Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 22: 07
            -4
            Everything is at the level of rumors. What kind of retaliatory attack on the Iranian ship are we talking about? What is the hype? What are you talking about? In Israel, they took the attack on the ship very seriously, without hysteria, etc. The answer can be conditionally considered a missile attack on pro-Iranian facilities in the Damascus region. Routine.
            1. boriz Offline boriz
              boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 22: 09
              +3
              Read the post, everything is written there.
              1. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
                Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 23: 07
                -4
                The answer, which was not particularly reported in the Israeli press, but which is in the electoral piggy bank of Bibi, who urgently needs a war. Not too clever?
                I will surprise you, but it is in the political tradition of Israel to start serious military operations by informing the leader of the opposition and getting his consent (at least without categorical opposition).
                1. boriz Offline boriz
                  boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 23: 26
                  +5
                  He does not need war. It is necessary to create the appearance of its possibility and proximity.
                  In my opinion, the only thing that worries him now is not to sit down.
                  Either at any cost to keep the post of prime minister, or to receive guarantees from criminal prosecution in case of resignation.
                  It seems to me that the explosions on the Israeli ship are a provocation. Not Iran.
                  The explosions themselves are executed well, neatly. Information support is worse. Hastily and carelessly. Apparently, time was running out. It is necessary to have time to solidify the guilt of Iran in the minds of people and instill confidence in imminent retribution. Then - the explosions on the Iranian ship.
                  Well, the whipping around the preemptive strike plan. Especially against the background of the murders of Suleimani and Fahrizadeh. Iran has already been hurt so badly, why continue to nightmare? An unnecessary and big risk. Justified only if in a week everything dies down without a trace.
                  1. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
                    Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 23: 59
                    -4
                    Very simplistic. There is no sense of war in Israel, at least more than usual. Such operations are likely to exist, but, for sure, they are not related to elections. In our realities, there is no need to invent a reason for war (especially to create one), it always exists.
                    You use a standard tracing paper - he has problems, he wants to solve them with war (fear of its proximity). Here the situation is much more complicated and the scheme you proposed in Israel will work in the opposite direction. Bibi negotiated beautifully and concluded peace treaties with Arab countries and it works for him, but the war ...
                    The fact that Bibi was preoccupied with the search for Cohen's ashes can be regarded as an election campaign, but it is not clear what is bad and generally unusual in this? This is basically how a political system with an elected government works.
                    For all my dislike for Bibi, it would never occur to me to compare him with Poroshenko, these are politicians of different levels. For all his shortcomings, he is a statesman and certainly did a lot for the state.
      3. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
        Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 21: 08
        -4
        There is a photo of these holes in the net. An irregular hole in the dimensions of 1,5 m. Just half a kilo. It is not so small, it is enough to smash a passenger car. And, you see, this is not an anti-ship missile.

        All wrong. A pound is clearly not enough, and even ten may not be enough. About the missiles, information passed at the level of the media as an assumption until reliable information was obtained, and yet it was not about anti-ship.
        1. boriz Offline boriz
          boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 21: 22
          +5
          it was not about anti-ship.

          Which one then? Signal?
          500g. that's a lot. The hull of the ship is not armor at all. A shell from the 30 mm cannon of our MiGs made a hole in the side of the B-29 of 1 sq. m. And there explosives - 20 - 30 grams. A passenger car will blow 500 grams.
          1. Alexzn Offline Alexzn
            Alexzn (Alexander) 19 March 2021 21: 41
            -5
            Do not confuse a static explosion and a kinetic one, where the energy is orders of magnitude higher.
            The types of rockets are a shitty cloud. The easiest option is to launch a rocket from a grenade launcher. This, by the way, is the most likely scenario.
            Your example smiled. An APCR shell makes a hole in the tank, and there is no explosive at all.
            1. boriz Offline boriz
              boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 21: 47
              +5
              Channel 12 spoke of a missile from an Iranian ship, which was 20 kilometers away.
              And in general, they attack mainly Iranian ships. Iran is now not in the mood to fight. According to Kedmi, the number of Iranian instructors in Syria has dropped from 1 to 200. They are now minding their own business, why should they jump on someone? And Israel creates tension from scratch. What for?
    2. Binder Online Binder
      Binder (Miron) 19 March 2021 20: 07
      -5
      Quote: AlexZN
      At the exit, instead of analyzing the situation, we received a set of gossip from an author who is not very familiar with Israeli realities.

      I would say that the author is not at all familiar with the realities of Israel, or with the history and modernity of the region as a whole, and his reasoning about the essence of Judaism is simply at the level of a vocational school student. This is a tendency among many Russians - to judge what they do not know and do not understand and, at the same time, consider their opinion as the ultimate truth.
      1. boriz Offline boriz
        boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 20: 44
        +4
        I didn't expect to hear anything else from the two of you.

        You don't understand anything

        You get into our affairs, not understanding anything, so they try to give you substantive answers.
        I examined current events in the light of the concepts adopted in politics. Everything is very logical.
        In fact, there is nothing to argue about the post?
        1. Binder Online Binder
          Binder (Miron) 19 March 2021 21: 01
          -1
          Quote: boriz
          In fact, there is nothing to argue about the post?

          I do not think that in this case it makes sense to object to the essence of what the author stated in the text. The position of the author initially does not stand up to criticism, especially the comparison of Natanyahu and Poroshenko, and Israel with Ukraine. The author, of course, has every right to his own delusions, but I have no desire to persuade him.
          1. boriz Offline boriz
            boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 21: 24
            +3
            Of course, Netanyahu cannot be compared to Poroshenko. Here are just actions in the same circumstances - the same.
            1. Binder Online Binder
              Binder (Miron) 19 March 2021 22: 04
              -2
              The circumstances are different, the actions are also different, well, the states are very different. Your article is a subjective view of a very complex and intricate tangle of problems, which even the most authoritative specialists cannot understand.
              1. boriz Offline boriz
                boriz (boriz) 19 March 2021 22: 07
                +3
                Circumstances are different, actions are also different

                Have you read the post?
                1. Binder Online Binder
                  Binder (Miron) 19 March 2021 22: 22
                  -2
                  That's just the point that I read. And I have no problems with understanding the Russian text, as well as with texts in some other languages.
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 20 March 2021 12: 03
    0
    Israel is officially at war with Syria.
    And with Iran? Do they have an official war or not at the moment?
    1. Cyril Offline Cyril
      Cyril (Kirill) 20 March 2021 13: 26
      -1
      There is no official war between Iran and Israel.
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 20 March 2021 12: 35
    -1
    Quote: boriz
    And Iran does not directly say this (about nuclear weapons). And Iran does not have a direct border with Israel. To demolish two cities with conventional weapons at such a distance is unrealistic. Hence such suspicions. Israel also has no nuclear weapons, right?
    And Iran really got it. Especially after he was appointed guilty of the September 11.09.2001, 2003 attack. In XNUMX. Iran offered a quite adequate memorandum, but they chose not to notice it. Including Israel. And now the same Israel plays the victim. This has already become a habit.

    - Mr. Zelepukin, why are you so dear to Iran and its nuclear program? And why did Israel "stepped on the tail" for you?
    1. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
      Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 21: 53
      +3
      Israel is a low social responsibility country, a haven for scammers and growing up scammers.
    2. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 21 March 2021 17: 50
      +2
      Not to say that his program is so dear to me. They just have no other choice. After they were declared part of the axis of evil and outright rejected the Iranian memorandum of 2003, they froze 50 lard in the United States and Europe, what else do they have to do?
      Any person involved in the preparation of production will say that they will not wait for enriched uranium (their own) to appear. The technological chain must be worked out to the end. The device itself is also a complicated thing. Segments for sharpening / collecting ball, electronics, etc. It is necessary to check how the explosion of an ordinary explosive occurs, which implodes the ball. Any uranium will do. There are many mountains in Iran, the production is not very large-scale and energy-intensive.
      And for the first real samples, you can ask for help from those who help with the entire program. And not only with this program. The world is not without good people.
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 20 March 2021 12: 40
    -1
    Quote: boriz
    Are there nuclear facilities in Haifa and Tel Aviv?

    At that time Iraq did not have allies, and Iran could stand up for it.

    - Will you stand up straight? If an exchange of missile and bomb strikes begins between Israel and Iran, will Russia intercede for Iran? wink Or will it express "extreme concern"?

    It is already almost a member of the EurAsEC. Our important (and, moreover, for the long term) partner. In the future - in our currency area. Certainly, in any case, it is more adequate than Turkey.

    - Yes, Iran is almost your half-brother!

    But, it is quite possible (and most likely) this pick is simply to serve the BBC campaign.

    - Bibi - written in one word - diminutive from Benjamin.
    1. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
      Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 21: 56
      +1
      Bibi is the Israeli Fuhrer
    2. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 21 March 2021 17: 38
      +2
      Times are changing very quickly. They can also intercede. Under the USSR, precedents were beaten. Under the threat of a nuclear strike, Israel stopped. Listen to Putin's speech at the anniversary of the annexation of Crimea.

      - Yes, Iran is almost your half-brother!

      And what's funny? The state was founded by the Aryans. Haplogroup R1a. Like the higher castes of India, the ancient clans are among the Arabs. Qureish has a lot of R1a. Look at Assad carefully, have you seen a lot of Arabs with blue eyes? 60% of Levites R1a.
      1. Cyril Offline Cyril
        Cyril (Kirill) 22 March 2021 05: 25
        -2
        And what's funny? The state was founded by the Aryans.

        laughing

        Already in November 1979, the Iranian authorities abolished the 5th and 6th articles of the Soviet-Iranian treaty of 1921, according to which both sides pledged not to contain hostile military contingents on their territory, in the event of a military threat to the borders of the RSFSR, it received the right to enter Iran their troops. Relations worsened as a result of the two wars of the 1980s - the Afghan and the Iranian-Iraqi. At the same time, Khomeini was warned about the upcoming entry of Soviet troops into Afghanistan by the Soviet ambassador to Iran V. M. Vinogradov on the night of December 26-27, 1979 during a personal meeting with a Soviet diplomat; at this meeting, Khomeini wished the Soviet side "to complete the task as soon as possible" and "return home." For three months, Khomeini did not comment on the Soviet operation in any way, but then criticized Moscow's actions in Afghanistan, after which Iran began to actively support the Afghan mujahideen, creating camps for them on its territory, and also did not recognize the pro-Soviet government in Kabul. Also, from Iran began radio propaganda in the USSR of the ideas of the Islamic revolution, which was conducted in the languages ​​of the peoples of the Soviet Union. The work of the Iranian consulate in Leningrad, the Soviet consulate in Rasht, the Ingosstrakh office in Mashhad was stopped, the number of the Soviet embassy in Tehran was halved, and the Iranian Society for Cultural Relations with the USSR and the Russian language courses operating under it were also closed.

        In the Iran-Iraq war, the USSR as a whole supported Iraq, although it tried to reconcile both sides of the conflict. In Iran, this Soviet position caused serious discontent.. The Soviet embassy in Tehran (December 27, 1980 and early 1988) and the Soviet consulate in Isfahan (early 1988) were attacked. However, the Iranian authorities did not have sufficient evidence of the supply of Soviet weapons to Iraq. In early 1988, the Iranian authorities admitted that the USSR did not supply missiles to Iraq.

        These "brothers" in the USSR tried to raise the Islamic peoples to the Islamic revolution :) brothers are such brothers ...

        How is Christ doing? "Enemies of a man are his household" (c) As he looked into the water.

        Haplogroup R1a. Like the higher castes of India, the ancient clans are among the Arabs. Qureish has a lot of R1a. Look at Assad carefully, Have you seen a lot of Arabs with blue eyes? 60% of Levites R1a.

        Oh, couch genetics went into action.
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 20 March 2021 12: 46
    -1
    Quote: boriz
    Let's remember Deir Yassin ...

    - In the Russian-organized armed conflict in Donbass, at least 5000 people died, in the wars unleashed by the Arabs, they died hundreds of thousands of people, but you remember everything Deir-Yassin for 70 years - because you have nothing more to remember!
    1. Ulysses Online Ulysses
      Ulysses (Alexey) 20 March 2021 21: 34
      +1
      - In the Russian-organized armed conflict in Donbass, at least 5000 people died,

      The conflict in Donbass was organized by the Kiev authorities, headed by Alexander Turchinov (a man without nationality), actively supported by the "Jewish Bandera" (as he positioned himself) Igor Kolomoisky.
      Kolomoisky actively sponsored the "natsbats" who unleashed terror against residents of southeastern Ukraine who disagreed with Kiev's policies.
    2. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
      Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 21: 55
      +1
      Quote: Michael1950
      Quote: boriz
      Let's remember Deir Yassin ...

      - In the Russian-organized armed conflict in Donbass, at least 5000 people died, in the wars unleashed by the Arabs, they died hundreds of thousands of people, but you remember everything Deir-Yassin for 70 years - because you have nothing more to remember!

      Hundreds of thousands of people died in the wars unleashed by the Zionists
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 20 March 2021 12: 53
    -1
    Quote: isofat
    PS I mentioned Ukraine because the people posing as Jews took power in Ukraine into their own hands.

    - ?? Is it true ?! And what does he do after taking power ?! Drinking the blood of Christian babies en masse ?? Or launches all kinds of businesses, start-ups, creates jobs, increases the welfare of citizens?
    Or is there none of this ?! This means that the Jews have not yet taken power from you. laughing lol Here in Israel they took power - and everything happens as I said. And you - NO ...
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 20 March 2021 12: 54
    -1
    Quote: Sergey Latyshev
    Israel is officially at war with Syria.
    And with Iran? Do they have an official war or not at the moment?

    - Not yet. But "Carthage must be destroyed" ...
    1. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
      Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 21: 54
      +1
      Israelis will flee from their five hectares
  • Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 16: 11
    +1
    Ukraine tse Israel !!
  • Michael I Offline Michael I
    Michael I (Michael I) 20 March 2021 17: 23
    0
    Commander-in-Chief, i.e. Benjamin Netanyahu.

    But this is news to me. All the same, the main one in the armed forces, the Chief of the General Staff
  • Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 20 March 2021 22: 45
    +1
    Benya was going to fight - to know someone to rob
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 21 March 2021 20: 31
    -1
    Quote: boriz
    - Yes, Iran is almost your half-brother!

    And what's funny? The state was founded by the Aryans. Haplogroup R1a. Like the higher castes of India, the ancient clans are among the Arabs. Qureish has a lot of R1a. Look at Assad carefully, have you seen a lot of Arabs with blue eyes? 60% of Levites R1a.

    - So the Russians are the most true Aryans? From the foothills of the Himalayas? But what about any nemchura, Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons ?! Which one of you is true aryan, eventually? "Blond Beast"? wink
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 21 March 2021 20: 33
    0
    Quote: Michael I
    Commander-in-Chief, i.e. Benjamin Netanyahu.

    But this is news to me. All the same, the main one in the armed forces, the Chief of the General Staff

    - The supreme commander-in-chief is always either the head of state or the head of government. Chief of General headquarters without his sanction "will not lift a finger", he is only a performer.
  • Michael1950 Offline Michael1950
    Michael1950 (Michael) 21 March 2021 20: 45
    0
    Quote: boriz
    Ayatollah is a spiritual leader. We do not know what the chief rabbi is saying. Their whole religion is built on the fact that they are God's chosen ones, and the rest are goyim (read, Untermenshi). So what?

    - And the fact that the "supreme rabbi" (of which there are two! laughing lol) has absolutely no influence on Israel's foreign policy!
    Unlike the spiritual leader of Iran, whose word is a law that must be followed. Israel is a secular state, Iran is religious to the core. For the average Israeli citizen and its leadership, the main priority is the lives of its citizens, for the Supreme Ayatollah of Iran, the afterlife of Muslims. The religious leadership of Iran will willingly sacrifice the life of its citizens on earth - and how many millions will burn - it does not matter to them - there is always a place for martyrs in Paradise.
  • Oder Offline Oder
    Oder (Wojciech) 22 March 2021 12: 09
    +1
    The nation for which the Germans created the Holocaust is today creating it for the Palestinians. Explain this to me. Can they do anything else besides war? After all, the point is that the US is like Israel.
    1. boriz Offline boriz
      boriz (boriz) 23 March 2021 23: 10
      +1
      What is the question then?

      After all, the point is that the US is like Israel.

      Or vice versa. The question is philosophical.
  • Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 23 March 2021 12: 26
    0
    the founders of modern Israel, David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, in their 1918 book Eretz Yisrael, insisted that the Palestinian peasants - then the majority of the Palestinian population - were descendants of ancient Jews.

    The Palestinian peasants, the authors argued, followed the traditions of their Jewish ancestors, retaining, for example, the same names for their villages, and that “in their veins, no doubt, there is a lot of Jewish blood - from Jewish peasants who, in the days of persecution and terrible oppression abandoned their traditions and their people in order to maintain their affection and loyalty to the Jewish land
    1. Fourth Offline Fourth
      Fourth (Fourth) 24 March 2021 22: 10
      +2
      Today Zionism has exhausted itself, it has fulfilled its goals. The state built by the Zionists exists largely due to an external threat. The world has changed a lot, so there is no need to prevent the Zionists from destroying their own state. As such, Israel has no future.