Know your place: how the Superjet can cross the MS-21 road


The Sukhoi Civil Aircraft company is considering the possibility of creating an elongated version that can accommodate up to 140 people. It would seem that this is good news, but in the expert environment, it causes a very ambiguous attitude. Let's try to figure out why.


The problems of the SSJ 100 have been known for a long time: this is initially an extremely high share of imported components, and a relatively low resource of the French-developed power plant, and difficulties with after-sales service. The "good news" is that these problems are gradually being addressed, which we are talking about in detail told earlier. But there was only one left, which is able to substitute the bandwagon for another promising Russian aircraft, the MS-21 liner.

Besides technical component, the difficulty in the implementation of the project consisted in a rather unsuccessful choice of the market segment, which SSJ 100 tried to enter. The demand for aircraft with 100 passenger seats is not very high. It is much higher in the 65-75-seat segment or already in the 130-140-seat configuration. Originally, the Superjet was planned to carry exactly 75 passengers, but the cabin capacity was increased to 100 people. Now we are talking about 140 seats, that is, twice as much as the initial project of the short-haul liner. The expediency of this approach is highly questionable.

Vladislav Filev, co-owner of the S7 Group, who was one of the customers of the "short version", explains:

For regional transportation in Russia, we need a car with exactly 75 seats, an analogue of the Soviet regional Tu-134 jet. SSJ75 could be this replacement. In addition, the aircraft was originally designed for 75 seats and in this configuration S7 ordered it back in 2004, but then it was made 100-seat.

Now this air carrier operates Embraer E-170 aircraft with a capacity of 78 passengers, which in practice confirms the demand for such a liner. Experts believe that the SSJ75 would have solved many of the Superjet's design problems: it would reduce the load on the wing and the power plant, which breaks down faster on the 100-seat version. Such a machine would be more loaded on regional routes, and the efficiency of its commercial operation would be higher.

However, for some reason, the UAC, which owns Sukhoi Civil Aircraft, is taking a different path. Development of a shortened version of the Superjet has been paused. Instead, officials from the aircraft industry intend to create an even "longer" modification of the short-haul airliner, actually squeezing it into the medium-haul segment. This automatically leads to a complete overhaul of the aircraft: a more powerful engine is required, a new wing, the fuselage will need to be seriously modified. In fact, we are talking about building a new aircraft at the expense of the federal budget.

The question is, why is this necessary, if in the segment where the Superjet-140 will fit, we are preparing to release a very promising airliner MS-21? Its younger version starts with 132 passenger seats.

Theoretically, we can probably say that "Superjet-140" and MS-21 "wing to wing" will conquer the world market together. But the demand for new liners has now dropped sharply, and it will take a long time to recover. Competition is fierce in the medium-haul segment. Our planes will have a hard time without government support, and the country's financial resources, alas, are not unlimited. To call a spade a spade, the two liners are more likely to compete with each other than with Boeing and Airbus.

It is not excluded that in the hardware struggle for budget funds, the Superjet lobbyists will be able to crush the MS-21. Legends have long been circulating how Mr. Mikhail Pogosyan, being the president of the United Aircraft Corporation, “stamped his feet” on any alternative projects that could compete with SSJ100 for government funding. Its victim has already become a promising Tu-334 for its time, whose train has now left. No matter how it turns out that the MC-21 will be on a starvation diet because of the ambitions of the top managers of Sukhoi Civil Aircraft.

Figuratively speaking, the "Superjet" just needs to know its place: 75-100 passenger seats, and not go into another league.
Photos used: SuperJet International / flickr.com
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22 comments
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  1. Sapsan136 Offline
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 27 July 2020 10: 53
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    There is no way the Superjet will be able to cross the MS-21, as it is a rather unfortunate aircraft with mediocre French engines and poor installation. If Poghosyan is a problem for Russian aviation, then it is high time to remove him from his post and send him home to engage in sheep breeding. Any equipment equipped with foreign motors for the Russian Federation is not relevant, since the supply of spare parts for it at any time can be stopped, following the example of the Mistrals.
    1. Marzhecki Offline
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 27 July 2020 11: 30
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      Quote: Sapsan136
      There is no way the Superjet will be able to cross the MS-21, as it is a rather unfortunate aircraft with mediocre French engines and poor installation.

      There is some violation of logic in your words.
      1. Sapsan136 Offline
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 27 July 2020 13: 35
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        Sergey, there is no violation of logic here. Superjet engines are set too low. Of course, you can nod at Western planes with the same low engine setting, but if someone hanged himself, this is not a reason to follow his example, right ?! In addition, the Superjet engines were created by French specialists, and obviously badly, with a lower engine life than those of Western aircraft. In addition, the Superjet has a lot of foreign-made spare parts, including motors, so the plane is simply not viable, since the West can refuse to supply spare parts to it at any time, as it refused with the Mistrals and then only dogs can be harnessed to these planes, there will be no sense from them ... New domestic engines will be installed on the MS-21 and this is a huge plus of this machine.
    2. nov_tech.vrn Offline
      nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 27 July 2020 13: 42
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      Don't you know what Poghosyan is doing now?
      1. Sapsan136 Offline
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 27 July 2020 13: 43
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        No, somehow I did not track it.
  2. nov_tech.vrn Offline
    nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 27 July 2020 12: 05
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    Sergei was in vain given the award for patriotism, patriotism and does not smell, but for his fertility he deserved the award!
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 2 August 2020 11: 13
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      This is an award from a friend of the deputy, so that friends do not forget, although it pleases ...
  3. kriten Offline
    kriten (Vladimir) 27 July 2020 12: 30
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    The Superjet is an ugly brainchild and mostly not ours. Giving money to him is a crime. He is covered in debt and sanctions.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 2 August 2020 11: 18
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      Damn, the superjet has burnt out - and the name is not Russian, that's why such a fate ... Sukhoi, the firm is powerful, it feeds on the military, so it has to find its segment in civilian. The company does not end in Poghosyan ... That it has not found its place in the civil aircraft industry, so there are no kickbacks and overpricing, not military orders, where prices are sky-high, here are the failures ...
  4. 123 Offline
    123 (123) 27 July 2020 12: 51
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    Here are some details:





    It doesn't hurt to look before drawing conclusions.
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 27 July 2020 20: 52
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      Continuation about the engine.



      Well, about management.

    2. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 28 July 2020 08: 24
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      Avionics, costs, conclusions

  5. Netyn Offline
    Netyn (Netyn) 27 July 2020 14: 14
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    Quote: nov_tech.vrn
    but for the fertility the award is well deserved!

    A pack of Durex.
  6. Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 27 July 2020 15: 53
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    In fact, they can "consider" as much as they like.
    On the contrary, it is their professional duty to "consider".

    And then there are calculations, logistics, business plans, and even pre-orders ...
    This is what distinguishes real projects - for example, the launch of Japanese airliners into production: bang right away, and there is a portfolio of orders for 50 aircraft ...
  7. Dmitry Leontiev Offline
    Dmitry Leontiev (Dmitry Leontiev) 27 July 2020 19: 59
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    One cannot but agree that there is logic in the article. It is better for a country to direct all its forces to maximize the improvement of each aircraft in its segment than to push them head-ons, forcing them to compete with each other, taking resources away from each other. Why do we need two aircraft in one segment? They will take orders from each other, which will lead to underfunding of both. If the MS-21 is a practically developed promising aircraft, then the enlarged Superjet is just a project of a completely new aircraft; - and what advantages can it have in the MS-21 segment over the latter? And if it deliberately yields to him, then why do we need such an aircraft with mediocre characteristics, when these funds can be directed to a much more promising MS-21 in this segment? It is better for the superjet to direct funds to improve the aircraft in its segment - for example, to quickly create for it Russian engines with improved characteristics and their installation.
  8. Ruslan Nikolaev Offline
    Ruslan Nikolaev (Ruslan Nikolaev) 28 July 2020 21: 43
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    Very strange. Strange experts. MS-21 for 132 seats, it is like a two-class layout. The 140-seat Superjet is like the maximum possible capacity. There is no competition, whatever one may say. At least put an owl on the globe. Rather, it is an intermediate link between the SSJ-100 and MS-21, for the flexibility of using a purely domestic fleet.
  9. Alexander tyurin (Alexander Tyurin) 29 July 2020 13: 35
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    Name at least one case where the low placement of the SOC engines led to a problem?
  10. Alexander tyurin (Alexander Tyurin) 29 July 2020 13: 37
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    There is no way the Superjet will be able to cross the MS-21, as it is a rather unfortunate aircraft with mediocre French engines and poor installation. If Poghosyan is a problem for Russian aviation, then it is high time to remove him from his post and send him home to engage in sheep breeding. Any equipment equipped with foreign engines is not relevant for the Russian Federation, since the supply of spare parts for it can be stopped at any time, following the example of the Mistrals.

    1. When this low position of the engine interfered with the SOC. Specific examples.
    2. The Sam-146 engine is the best that the Russian Federation has and will have in the coming years in this class.
    3. Poghosyan has been rector of MAI for several years.
  11. Alexander tyurin (Alexander Tyurin) 29 July 2020 13: 39
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    Quote: kriten
    The Superjet is an ugly brainchild and mostly not ours. Giving money to him is a crime. He is covered in debt and sanctions.

    The Superjet has been developed and tested and is being manufactured in the Russian Federation. It is foolish to think that the origin of a product is determined by the origin of the components. By this logic, both the iPhone is Chinese, and the Lada Kalina is not ours, and the Boeing is not American, and the Airbus is not European. And Embraer don't get it at all.
  12. Alexander tyurin (Alexander Tyurin) 29 July 2020 13: 42
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    Sergey, there is no violation of logic here. Superjet engines are set too low. Of course, you can nod at Western planes with the same low engine setting, but if someone hanged himself, this is not a reason to follow his example, right ?! In addition, the Superjet engines were created by French specialists, and obviously badly, with a lower engine life than those of Western aircraft. In addition, the Superjet has a lot of foreign-made spare parts, including engines, so the plane is simply not viable, since the West can refuse to supply spare parts to it at any time, as it refused with the Mistrals, and then only dogs can be harnessed to these planes, there is no sense in them will be. New domestic engines will be installed on the MS-21 and this is a huge plus of this machine.

    MS-21 also turns out to be not viable. Because there are as many as 8% less Western set.
    When you realize that Western components are a plus for a civil aircraft, not a minus.
    A commercial plane, the more it flies, the better it is. It flies more with the western kit, no matter what you think.
    As for the sanctions, it was necessary for the KLA to turn on the head and separate the civilian divisions with the military a long time ago, and not now.
  13. Alexander tyurin (Alexander Tyurin) 29 July 2020 13: 44
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    Quote: Ruslan Nikolaev
    Very strange. Strange experts. MS-21 for 132 seats, it is like a two-class layout. The 140-seat Superjet is like the maximum possible capacity. There is no competition, whatever one may say. At least put an owl on the globe. Rather, it is an intermediate link between the SSJ-100 and MS-21, for the flexibility of using a purely domestic fleet.

    The funniest thing is that the cut-down versions of the aircraft are always inferior in efficiency to the extended types of the smaller class. That is why products such as A319 and B735 are of no interest to anyone.
  14. Alexander tyurin (Alexander Tyurin) 29 July 2020 13: 54
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    Quote: Dmitry Leontyev
    One cannot but agree that there is logic in the article. It is better for a country to direct all its forces to maximize the improvement of each aircraft in its segment than to push them head-ons, forcing them to compete with each other, taking resources away from each other. Why do we need two aircraft in one segment? They will take orders from each other, which will lead to underfunding of both. If the MS-21 is a practically developed promising aircraft, then the enlarged Superjet is just a project of a completely new aircraft; - and what advantages can it have in the MS-21 segment over the latter? And if it deliberately yields to him, then why do we need such an aircraft with mediocre characteristics, when these funds can be directed to a much more promising MS-21 in this segment? It is better for the superjet to direct funds to improve the aircraft in its segment - for example, to quickly create for it Russian engines with improved characteristics and their installation.

    The extended SSS will be more interesting than the stripped-down MS-21. An example of such "successful" aircraft as A-319 and B-735 is evidence of this. The stripped-down MS-21 will have oversize and low efficiency. It's like comparing a stretched Gazelle with a stripped-down Icarus. The latter, purely technologically, will still be harder, but will be just as lucky.
    It's one thing when such a fence is fought because of the desire to preserve the unification of the customer's park and, accordingly, to save the latter. For example, he has only Airbuses and does not want 1-2 small Embraers, and for the sake of them start new personnel, infrastructure, etc. For this, a stripped-down version of the same is born, for example, the A320 - A319.
    And then, this approach did not justify itself, as I already wrote.
    And here it is - MS-21 and SSZh are generally planned to be unified (this is one legal entity today). The basic and extended MS-21 and the extended and cut SSZh-100 are just asking: SSZH-140 and SSZh-75.
    Then all segments will be closed.

    Yes, and the main problem of SOC is not in engines. There is just no problem. The French quickly fixed everything in the technical process.
    The main problem of the SSZ is in the service system and logistics. And this system, having greatly ruined the life of the SSZ, will ruin the life of the MC-21, if now it is not urgently treated. Moreover, it is now ONE system with the same ... managers.