Turkey has already won the war for Libya: what options remain with Russia


After Turkey’s direct intervention in the war, the situation in Libya has changed dramatically. "Friend Recep" did the same trick in Tripoli as the Kremlin in Syria, officially supporting Damascus. And, apparently, it is Ankara that will be the main winner following the results of the next redistribution of Libyan territory.


What now remains to be done by our country, which, in an indirect form, has been drawn into a war over the three seas?

Ankara, appreciating the rather successful Syrian experience of Russia, went the same way, sending its troops, as well as a “proxy”, to Libya at the official invitation of the Government of National Accord (PNS), based in Tripoli. From this moment, you can begin the countdown of Field Marshal Khalifa Haftar and the international coalition behind him. Despite the combined power of these states, it is now worth recognizing that they all lost.

LNA Haftar is supported by several countries at once. Egypt fights “on distant approaches” against the appearance of Islamists on its borders. Saudi Arabia and the UAE finance the field marshal’s army in order to drive out the Muslim Brotherhood from Tripoli. France is not averse to squeezing Italy out of its former colony in order to further strengthen itself in northern Africa. The Russian leadership clearly sympathizes with Haftaru, and if he came to power, he could count on gratitude and a number of profitable contracts for oligarchs close to the Kremlin.

And now they all lost. Despite their strength, there is no unity between them, and they cannot directly speak on the side of the field marshal against the government officially recognized by the UN in Tripoli. All that remains for them is financing, the supply of weapons, the help of military instructors, and a few detachments of mercenaries. Of the recent "creative" - ​​sending to Libya "unknown aircraft", which we detail told earlier. The idea, to be honest, is not the best, since it is guaranteed to lead to an escalation of the conflict. The fact is that Turkey made a serious bet on Tripoli.

At first, control of fields and the coast gives Ankara access to Libyan hydrocarbon reserves that are easy to ship to the European market.

SecondlyPresident Erdogan got Saraj to sign a memorandum on the separation of marine zones and continental shelves in the Eastern Mediterranean, thanks to which he received a huge piece of its water area and put a “shield” on the pipelines to Europe bypassing Turkey.

Thirdly, gaining a foothold in Libya, Ankara took control of all the main flows of migrants from Africa and the Middle East to the territory of the European Union, due to which it received a serious tool of political pressure.

Finally, this is the triumphant return of the Turks to the next former province of the Ottoman Empire, which will add points to Recep Erdogan.

Together, this means that Ankara Tripoli will not surrender in any case. The PNS is recognized by the United Nations, which means Turkey has the right to build up its military group there as arbitrarily as possible. In this context, the transfer of “unknown aircraft” to Libya actually plays against Haftar himself, since in response the Turks can deploy their own fighter aircraft and air defense systems in North Africa, declaring a no-fly zone over the territory of Libya. And they will be right, by the way. For legally.

Let's call a spade a spade: Turkey won, because international law and the possibilities to legally increase its grouping are incomparably higher than that of the whole coalition that stands for Haftar. Yes, together they can create problems for the Turks, but Ankara needs to strengthen Tripoli and ensure personal security for Saraju to remain on the horse, realizing their own interests. What options then remain for Russia?

For example, you can recognize that betting on field marshal a bit, fix losses and leave Libya, focusing on other problems. Then it’s worth stopping the “pinching” of the Turks so that, if necessary, they do not worsen relations with them. You can, on the contrary, aggravate, but then you need to think about how to solve the problem of taking Tripoli by small irregular forces, since the key to Libya lies there, and President Erdogan sits on it, on whose side is international law and a regular army. Finally, you can make an original feint: remember that Moscow recognizes the Saraj government, and begin to “wet” its former secret coalition partners with Turkey, gaining in return domestic business access to a number of projects.
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  • Photos used: Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri Genelkurmay Başkanlığı
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  1. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 28 May 2020 11: 06
    +5
    All of this, perhaps, is true, only Gaddafi was also recognized by the UN, which did not prevent his overthrow. And where then was International Law, when NATO troops bombed Libya, driving it into the Stone Age?
    And if Russia will divert Turkish forces to Libya, Turkey will have less forces in Syria. That is a big politician ....
  2. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 28 May 2020 11: 09
    -5
    The most realistic option is not mentioned - to create another buffer country. In which the troops will run in all countries for a long time.
    To help both, and this, to sell weapons, mercenaries, supplies ....
  3. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 28 May 2020 12: 18
    -2
    There is one more option. Start an assault on Idlib by Assad forces. Especially since Assad is in favor! In general, when Putin and Lavrov entered into a truce, so that it would be beneficial to Russia, and where? After these cease-fires, there remains only to rake.
  4. Ser sash Offline Ser sash
    Ser sash (Ser Sash) 28 May 2020 12: 28
    +4
    Articles - fortunetellers on the topic - "What did the big uncles agree there?" Nobody knows anything, but I want to be smart.
  5. maiman61 Offline maiman61
    maiman61 (Yuri) 28 May 2020 12: 41
    +3
    Come on! I think that the Turkish sultan got into such an opa that he would regret that he decided to play war games. Laughs the one who laughs last!
  6. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
    gorenina91 (Irina) 28 May 2020 13: 01
    +1
    LNA Haftar is supported by several countries at once. Egypt fights “on distant approaches” against the appearance of Islamists on its borders. Saudi Arabia and the UAE finance the field marshal’s army in order to drive out the Muslim Brotherhood from Tripoli. France is not averse to squeezing Italy out of its former colony in order to further strengthen itself in northern Africa. The Russian leadership clearly sympathizes with Haftaru, and if he came to power, he could count on gratitude and a number of profitable contracts for oligarchs close to the Kremlin.

    Yes, the feeble "Greek Cypriots" ...- they are all ...- next to Turkey ... - And unfortunately ...- and Russia next to Turkey began to turn into a kind of "Greek Cypriot" ...
    - Russia cannot do anything against Turkey in its own interests ... - Russia has already slipped in Syria to some kind of "joint patrol" with Turkey ... - What next ???
    - In many topics they have already been widely broadcast about, allegedly ...- how Erdogan “lost” Russia to Syria; and how Russia turned out to be a "complete triumph" ... - And how does it look in real life ... - I will not even talk about it personally ... - everything is so obvious; that without words everything is clear ...- what a sad Russia "triumph" is ...
    - And Erdogan turned out to be such a "loser"; that even climbed into Libya ... - then "lose" ... - And what should Russia hope for now ??? Yes, only to get the honorary "post of joint patrolman" with Turkey in Libya ... - And even then ... - if Turkey itself condescends to allow Russia to occupy some auxiliary patrol guard in Libya function ... - A kind of Russian teaching staff in Libya; led by Turkey ...
    - Almost ... like in Syria ... - Hooray ...
    1. Oyo Sarkazmi Offline Oyo Sarkazmi
      Oyo Sarkazmi (Oyo Sarkazmi) 31 May 2020 13: 23
      +3
      Quote: gorenina91
      - And Erdogan turned out to be so "loser"; that even climbed to Libya ...

      Poor, poor, poor AI !!! They made a generator of words, but forgot to connect it with reality ...
      In Libya, there is a pro-American ISIS war with guardians of Arab purity from the UAE, Egypt, Morocco. The question is oil and Islam. ISIS has a Koran - from dollar bills. Praying at him, they squeeze oil from the Syrians, Libyans, Iraqis. In Libya, oil has long been squeezed, but because of Haftar, kerosene has ceased to flow into ports. Do not give a damn about Syria, ISIS PMCs are being transferred to Libya - there, without Russians, there should be ointments. 5 thousand US special forces sweat, guarding the pipe from the desert to the coast. And let the Turkish Turks urinate Haftara.
    2. georgje Offline georgje
      georgje (George) 4 June 2020 10: 29
      0
      Not Noah (s). Are there proofs? Or just obvious "fantasies only for you?
  7. jekasimf Offline jekasimf
    jekasimf (jekasimf) 28 May 2020 13: 13
    +6
    Again, 25! Well, why did someone decide that Russia should do something in Libya? And even more so, to fight against Turkey! Russia has absolutely no reason to get in there. There are a dozen states. Everything that Russia can have there is insignificant, in comparison with hemorrhoids. If someone rich pays for deliveries of Soviet junk there, this does not mean at all that Russian soldiers should fight there.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. Dear sofa expert. 28 May 2020 13: 36
    +4
    Russia does not need to do anything special in Libya yet. She has a good neutral position. Officially supports one side, unofficially sympathizes with the other.
    This will give her a good chance in the future to be an intermediary - the only and indispensable. The only one - because Russia has already earned the authority of a reliable partner in the Middle East, and indispensable, since the West has already managed to screw up both in the Middle East and North Africa. So for today only Russia has a chance to be “bred” in the delicate relations of those regions.
    1. Ser sash Offline Ser sash
      Ser sash (Ser Sash) 28 May 2020 14: 16
      +2
      And ours, and yours - no one loves. Everyone respects a firm stance.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Dear sofa expert. 28 May 2020 14: 50
        +2
        And ours, and yours - no one loves. Everyone respects a firm stance.

        Yes, for God's sake!) Russia is not $ 100 to be loved by everyone. Secondly - it is more correct to say: "neither one nor the other." Maintaining neutrality while remaining an important “player” is Russia's current goal in Libya.
        Russia has enough exposed itself in Syria. Now the authority has been earned and now it will work for Russia.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  10. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 May 2020 14: 20
    +1
    Everything is not so simple ... Turkey cannot provide serious military assistance for two significant reasons, and without this, everything can go unpredictably ...
    1) The Turkish army is armed with antique weapons, the basis of its tank units are the Leopard-1 and M-60 tanks, which approximately correspond to the Soviet T-54, which means that they are destroyed by any means of anti-tank warfare very easily. Almost any ATGM, or RPG, turns such a tank into a pile of charred iron. As the battles in Syria showed, the modernization of the Turkish-armed M-60 in Israel yielded little, they burn and explode along with the crews. The debut in Syria of the strongest tanks of Turkey Leopards-2 also ended very unsuccessfully - with exploding ammunition and torn off Leopard-2 towers and the death of elite Turkish tank crews ...
    2) Turkey itself does not produce most types of weapons, which means that it depends on the supply of weapons, equipment, spare parts and ammunition from third countries and not the fact that these countries will supply them to Turkey ... In addition, the use of old, vulnerable equipment will lead to large losses in the personnel of the Turkish army, which will negatively affect the fighting spirit of the Turkish army, the mood in Turkish society, and confidence in Erdogan ... The situation in Turkey’s economy is far from brilliant, too, if (a small victorious war) , which could raise Erdogan’s rating, does not happen, then a military coup in Turkey is quite likely, and with it a civil war in Turkey itself ...
    1. Dear sofa expert. 28 May 2020 14: 53
      +2
      .. a military coup in Turkey is likely ..

      Only this time, he is unlikely to count on the help of the Kremlin.
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 May 2020 15: 01
        +2
        Then I agree with you on all the service stations! In addition, the series of changes of governments and coups can drag out, because the economy will not be able to fix it anywhere and the new government, which means that a throng will begin at the throne, from those who want to steer ... And then Turkey itself can turn into Afghanistan ... where in every village sits a caliph ...
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        2. Dear sofa expert. 28 May 2020 15: 16
          0
          It will be enough for Russia to support the Americans in supporting the Gulen party. This will push Erdogan to the baseboard, and at the same time spoil even more American-Turkish relations. By the way, in this case, you can also manipulate with Trump. He is biting the Kremlin’s help. After all, the idea of ​​a coup was from his democratic predecessor. Failure immediately use it watered. competitors. And soon the elections)
    2. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
      gorenina91 (Irina) 28 May 2020 16: 08
      -4
      As the battles in Syria showed, the modernization of the Turkish M-60 in Israel has yielded little

      - What is it about???

      Turkey itself does not produce most types of weapons, which means that it depends on the supply of weapons, equipment, spare parts and ammunition from third countries

      - Turkey itself produces a lot of weapons:
      - Turkey assembles the beautiful F-16s at its plants (under license);
      - Turkey produces its own completely advanced and combat-ready tanks (several modifications); of course, many of them are based on the German Leopards, Yuzhny tanks. Korea and tanks of other states;
      - Turkey produces its own modern artillery systems, serviced by a number of modern means of control and firing;
      - Turkey produces a lot of samples of excellent small arms and very high-quality ammunition for them;
      - And ... finally ... - Turkey produces its own drones and UAVs of several modifications and various military purposes (can be used for reconnaissance; can be used as spotters for precise targeting of fire; they can directly launch missile and bomb strikes themselves ..) .... - Plus to everything .. - all this works according to software developed by the Turkish companies themselves ... - In total ... of this ... - unmanned weapons, software and service personnel from Russia still ...- as it was not ... - and no .... - to this day !!!!!!!
      - To this it should be added that the Turkish army is professional, well trained (especially the Air Force), has powerful potential and is capable of performing combat missions in the conduct of a modern war ...
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 May 2020 16: 28
        +3
        Turkey is assembling an export version of the F-16, which cannot be beautiful just because it has reduced capabilities compared to the F-16, which is in service with the United States. In addition, Turkey has only a screwdriver assembly, and not a full production cycle ... Turkey does not produce tanks from the word AT ALL. The only factory in Europe that produces Leopard-2 tanks is located in Greece, where the Greeks will not have their old scores with Turkey and help the Turks, their countries are on the brink of war for many years ... The cat wept over UAVs in Turkey and, as events in Syria, they are falling fast ... It’s about the fact that the M-60 Sobra modernized in Israel burned well and exploded in Syria, together with the Leopards-2 ... and the antediluvian and very vulnerable Leopards remain the basis of the Turkish tank park 1...
        1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
          gorenina91 (Irina) 28 May 2020 16: 56
          -6
          Turkey is assembling an export version of the F-16, which cannot be beautiful already because it has reduced capabilities compared to the F-16, which is in service with the United States, in addition, Turkey has only a screwdriver assembly, and not a complete production cycle.

          - It’s your set minus to me ... - обладает has abridged possibilities ’... - Wow ... - he put a minus to me .. and ... and he also addresses me ... - Well ...

          Turkey does not produce tanks from the word AT ALL. Europe's only Leopard 2 tank factory in Greece

          - The Turkish army has about 2,5 thousand tanks of several types ... - A pretty solid fleet ... - Yes, a lot of obsolete ones ... - And what kind of antediluvian tanks are fighting in Syria today ... - This is you does not surprise .... - in any way ???
          - As for today's events; then ... then Turkey launched its own main battle tank "Altay" (Altai) into mass production ... And what kind of "Greece" is there ??? ... - True, this tank, while will be produced with a German engine (power engines - 1,5 thousand hp) ... - But the Russian defense industry quite often uses "import substitution" ...

          The cat wept over UAVs in Turkey, and as events in Syria showed, they quickly fall ..

          - And why are you bringing here ...- "as an example" ...
          - Yes, it's not the cat who needs to cry today, but the Russian army ... - because there is nothing "unmanned" ... - for reconnaissance; for directing fire; to draw up a program for the whole system of all kinds of interference for the enemy; to correct data with satellite communications; for bombing and missile strikes ... - Just a stone age ...
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 May 2020 17: 11
            +4
            Russia has EVERYTHING, and it has a full cycle of production of tanks and aircraft, and out of 2500 thousand Turkish tanks only about 500 are relatively modern, and even those, as the war in Syria showed, are worthless ... Altai ?! Granite and cruise missiles Garnet, with a range from 2 to 800 km ... Aviation supersonic anti-ship missiles Storm, with a range of 1000 km ... I'm not talking about the latest developments, from which even in the USA they hiccup ... And still, do not write nonsense, they will put less cons ... laughing
            1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
              gorenina91 (Irina) 28 May 2020 18: 01
              -5
              You trust your wife, like ... like Russian air-to-air missiles (which are on our fighters and combat helicopters.) .....; which can not bring to mind in any way ... - but everyone hopes (already several decades), that they will finally be brought to mind ... - So you hope ...

              Russia just has EVERYTHING, and there is a full production cycle of tanks and planes, and out of 2500 thousand Turkish tanks only about 500 are relatively modern, and those, as the war in Syria has shown, are worthless ... Altai ?! You are trying to pass off an experimental tank as a battle tank ... Turkey has fewer of them than Russia Armat and the Black Eagles ...

              - What are you talking about here ... "And from the sea ... and from the Don" ...
              - Anyway ...- if every caulk ...- where to dial Armat at all ??? -Hahah ... - Yes, but did you check Armata in battle ??? And where did you see the Black Eagle tank in the army ??? - This beautiful Omsk tank could already be in the arsenal of the Russian Army for about fifteen years ... - But the enemies of the people have tried so hard that today a parody of this tank is called a product ... - "No. ... such and such" and it is produced and even delivered to "other regions" ...
              - To everything else that you were here trying emotionally (but far from logical) to state ... personally, I do not intend to answer ...
              1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 May 2020 18: 20
                +2
                Yes, she knows how, and I, by the way, also, which I also wish you ... laughing In Russia, everyone has long been brought to mind, well, maybe, except for the latest models. Have you Altai in battle, or at least a dozen of them saw them at the parade ?! The problem is that the beautiful Omsk tank has an increased hull length, which reduces the maneuverability and the armor capsule of the crew, which is too weak at the present time ... In the 90s, there was no money for it, but now it’s not very relevant ... Well, Turkish Harpoons , in the export version and the same F-16 scare the raven, not us .. soldier
                1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
                  gorenina91 (Irina) 28 May 2020 20: 05
                  -1
                  The problem is that the beautiful Omsk tank has an increased hull length, which reduces the maneuverability and armor capsule reservation too weak at present.

                  - You yourself understand ... - what are you writing about ??? What is this "increased body length" ??? - The platform of the "Black Eagle" has seven rollers ... - And this platform was taken as a basis ... - The same platform at the T-95; and at Armata ...
                  - And about the Black Eagle’s maneuverability, you can find out ...- or rather see it in the video clips; where the "Black Eagle" runs, jumps and shoots ... - You can find this video yourself in any search engine ...

                  "Black Eagle" - a tank of the 21st century that did not fall into the Russian army
                  Some experts believe that the "Object 640" or "Black Eagle" was originally created for export, since in the 90s our entire defense industry was going through difficult times, and a new tank, qualitatively superior to modern modifications of the T-72 and T-90, could find a buyer abroad.
                  The Black Eagle was distinguished by its streamlined silhouette, multilayer armor, from which the hull and turret of the armored vehicle were made, reinforced with the new generation of dynamic defense and the presence of an active defense system, which would shoot down anti-tank missile systems even when approaching the tank.
                  The engine of the Object 640 was supposed to be a gas turbine with a capacity of 1500 hp, which provided the Black Eagle with a mass of not more than 48 tons excellent driving characteristics - the vehicle reached speeds of up to 80 km / m along the highway.
                  The main weapon of the tank was a 125-mm gun, but it was reported about the possibility of installing a larger caliber guns. Machine guns were controlled remotely, the commander and gunner’s places were equipped with modern sights.
                  The Black Eagle was first shown to the public in 1999.
                  -But in the beginning of the zero years it was announced that a new T-95 main tank would be developed in Russia. And the Omsk plant, which produced a demo of the Black Eagle, failed to receive new orders, went bankrupt.

                  Enemies defeated ...
                  1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 May 2020 23: 10
                    0
                    The building of the Black Eagle is longer than Almaty by 1 rink ... If you were an officer, not a housekeeper, you would understand what this means ...
                    1. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
                      gorenina91 (Irina) 29 May 2020 03: 54
                      -2
                      The building of the Black Eagle is longer than Almaty by 1 rink ... If you were an officer, not a housekeeper, you would understand what this means ...

                      - Ha ... - Yes .., personally I ... - senior lieutenant of the reserve (and if I agree to join the army, then I will be immediately awaited ... - "captain-major position") ... - And personally I have I wrote about this in some detail ... - True, I personally have no direct relation to the tank forces ... - My VUS 521500 "Special satellite communication systems" ...
                      - But you, it seems ... - a corporal from the construction battalion ... - a'la to the local "famous construction battalion" living on the site ...
                      -So here ...- For you personally ...- such an "experienced-military-gifted" personally I give explanations ... to your judgment:

                      The building of the Black Eagle is longer than Almaty by 1 rink.

                      - The hull of the tank "Black Eagle" and the hull of the tank "Armata" (T-14) ... - have a seven-roller platform ...
                      - Anyway ...- Do not stick your nose into those matters in which you are so "good at" ...
                      - For you, it’s just embarrassing to become ... - "sofa expert" ...
                      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 29 May 2020 09: 28
                        -1
                        No, madam, I’m older than you in rank and still in service, although I changed the camouflage of the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation to the form of the Ministry of Emergency Situations of the Russian Federation ... I know well how and what the signal men understand ... Cook cabbage soup, see - don’t burn the rest of the hair with hydrogen peroxide ... and don’t mess into men's affairs ... Given that, as a rule, they are sent to the reserve with an increase of 1 rank, who will take you to where I can imagine ... but they served you are an ordinary flyer ... How did the late Misha Zadornov talk about people like you (secretaries) ... but ... a coffee-maker ... Perhaps the major commanded your harem ...
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                2. gorenina91 Offline gorenina91
                  gorenina91 (Irina) 29 May 2020 12: 21
                  -4
                  Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) Yesterday, 23:10 PM

                  The building of the Black Eagle is longer than Almaty by 1 rink ... If you were an officer, not a housekeeper, you would understand what this means ...

                  The hull of the Black Eagle tank is based on a platform with seven rollers ... - The hull of the Armata tank (T-14) is also based on a platform with seven rollers ...
                  - And which one of them has an "increased length of the body" (your statements) ... - this is only you "know" ...
                  - So - "size matters"; but not for this case ...
                  1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 29 May 2020 15: 06
                    +2
                    Armata, too, is, in fact, an experimental tank ... Only the T-90 can be considered serial and used, therefore, they ordered the T-90MS batch for the army to break through and modernize all previously issued T-90s to this level ... If they served in tank units, or at least acted together with them in battle, then they could write something clever, and so ...
    3. KARAKURT21 Offline KARAKURT21
      KARAKURT21 (KARAKURT21) 29 May 2020 12: 31
      -5
      T-90 in Syria also burned well! wink As for the screwdriver assembly, you certainly, to put it mildly, lied, and about the “cat cried” about the UAV in general laughter. laughing It’s even with the “cat cried” the Turks wonderfully reel in Syria and Libya. You do not like it, but you have to agree with the fact wink
      1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 29 May 2020 15: 12
        +3
        Dreams interesting to you are dreamed ... T-90 at you burn ... Dream about it further ... negative Photos of burnt down Turkish Leopards-2, with torn turrets and dead elite crews of Turkey, have long gone to sites ... Send photos of burning T-90s, or tie them with alcohol. smile It is, of course, in Banderostan and T-64BV they are trying to give out for the T-90, and the Soviet T-72BM of the 1989 model, but this can only be rented with blond housewives who are obsessed with nonsense like Dom-2 ...
        1. KARAKURT21 Offline KARAKURT21
          KARAKURT21 (KARAKURT21) 13 June 2020 12: 15
          -1
          You are drunk on alcohol and you’re thinking like hawthorn. Tanks burn in all wars, and you fear the Turks.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 14 June 2020 04: 28
            +4
            Russia won the vast majority of wars with Turkey. Why would I be afraid of those whom my ancestors drove with kicks ?! Yes, and the modern army of Turkey with its outdated weapons does not impress me ... You are probably from Azerbaijan ... So, your government is putting the wrong horse ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
  11. Bitter Offline Bitter
    Bitter (Gleb) 29 May 2020 09: 16
    +1
    It should be added that the Turkish army is professional, well-trained (especially the Air Force), has powerful potential and is capable of performing combat missions in the conduct of modern warfare ...

    Here you just announced the information with which the bulk of the opponents on the site can not agree. Although if you really look at the facts, for a theater of action like Libya in Turkey, you can say the "oversupply" of military potential. We will observe the development of the situation.
    Russian politics, officially supporting Tripoli and unofficially sympathizing with another, took a wait-and-see attitude, but, alas, not neutral. This expectant sitting on two chairs will not go unnoticed.
  • Lucius tarquinius (Lucius Tarquinius) 28 May 2020 19: 33
    0
    Now it is necessary that someone in Turkey talked about this, otherwise, in the process, all of the above will be completely violet to her)
  • KARAKURT21 Offline KARAKURT21
    KARAKURT21 (KARAKURT21) 29 May 2020 12: 25
    -6
    The Turkish economy is cooler than the Russian one at times! And their "old" ruins everything indiscriminately. You can ask eyewitnesses if such remained, of course! wink
  • 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 28 May 2020 15: 43
    +3
    Again, Russia has lost everything and it has a choice to kneel down, admit defeat and crawl out into the den or run across to the side of the winner and look ingratiatingly into his eyes, start carrying chestnuts of their fire for him? sad
    Not surprised, every second article about it. laughing
    I wonder how it turns out - there with a dozen countries involved in the conflict, and Russia lost again.

    By the way, why did Turkey win? There, besides her, there is also a “pack of sponsors”.

    Firstly, control of the fields and the coast gives Ankara access to Libyan hydrocarbon reserves, which are easily delivered to the European market.

    Today is, tomorrow is not. Everything is unsteady like a mirage in the desert.

    Secondly, President Erdogan got Saraj to sign a memorandum on the separation of marine zones and continental shelves in the Eastern Mediterranean, thanks to which he received a huge piece of its water area and put a “shield” on the pipelines to Europe bypassing Turkey.

    A memorandum is an information and reference document outlining views on any issue.
    The parties outlined their views on things, in which they signed. That's all. Erdogan can hang it on a clove in the outhouse and enjoy it daily. In addition, they signed for a long time, but won only now?

    Thirdly, gaining a foothold in Libya, Ankara took control of all the main flows of migrants from Africa and the Middle East to the territory of the European Union, due to which it received a serious political pressure tool.

    Now Europeans will be even more angry at him. In addition, migrants must first go through the territory of Haftar.

    Let's call a spade a spade: Turkey won, because international law and the possibilities to legally increase its grouping are incomparably higher than that of the whole coalition that stands for Haftar. Yes, together they can create problems for the Turks, but Ankara needs to strengthen Tripoli and ensure personal security for Saraju to remain on the horse, realizing their own interests. What options then remain for Russia?

    What is it like? belay It turns out that international law is on the side of Turkey and this is the key to victory.
    Here is a quote from a March article by the author.

    Let's call a spade a spade: under the territorial integrity of Syria laid a bomb with a clockwork that will explode sooner or later. Unfortunately, waving a saber, this problem cannot be so easily solved: Turkey is strong and determined, it has introduced a significant military contingent into northern Idlib, which does not hesitate to use force against the advancing government army of the ATS.

    Somehow it turns out strange. what The Turks won in Libya, because international law is on their side, and in Syria, this same international law ignores and doesn’t interfere with it somehow.
    Here is another quote, also for March.

    So, Turkey is quite serious. It is reported that Ankara intends to deploy additional more advanced air defense systems to Idlib in order to finally “land” the Allied aircraft. What can the Turks demand in the negotiations for not going on the offensive themselves?

    The “red line”, beyond which Erdogan does not depart, can be considered Afrin. The Turks captured this territory during Operation Olive Branch. After that, what began could be called “ethnic cleansing” if desired: about 250 thousand people, mainly Kurds, were forced to leave the region. Another 135 thousand people of Kurdish nationality were squeezed out as a result of Operation Source of Peace. Their place was taken by the Turkoman, in fact, the Syrian Turks. In other words, the ethnic composition of Afrin has radically changed.

    It turns out that in Syria they spat on this international law, but in Libya it is on the side of the Turks and, naturally, will everyone abide by it? Why? Is the climate different?
    In general, do not become, and the next game of thimbles, cooler, twirl .....
    1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
      Kristallovich (Ruslan) 28 May 2020 16: 10
      +1
      Somehow it turns out strange. The Turks won in Libya, because international law is on their side, and in Syria, this same international law ignores and doesn’t interfere with it somehow.

      In Syria, Moscow is indecisive. And it is understandable: "Turkish Stream", Akkuyu, S-400, a possible supply of fighters ... In general, they do not want to quarrel. And Turkey is manipulating, knowing it well ...
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 28 May 2020 16: 16
        +2
        In Syria, Moscow is indecisive. And it is understandable: "Turkish Stream", Akkuyu, S-400, a possible supply of fighters ... In general, they do not want to quarrel. And Turkey is manipulating, knowing it well ...

        Turks no less than Moscow are interested in all these projects. But you are right, they don’t want to quarrel, and not only with the Turks. Moscow is making peace. But, as we see, international law does not help her much in this.
        Why does it help the Turks in Libya? Is there another right? How is confidence that other parties to the conflict will abide by it?
        1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
          Kristallovich (Ruslan) 28 May 2020 16: 31
          0
          Turks no less than Moscow are interested in all these projects.

          Less. It was Moscow that initiated the Turkish Stream, Akkuyu, and S-400 sales. I am not saying that the Turks have no interest in these projects, but all of them are more important to us. It is we who are looking for new ways of delivering gas to Europe, it is we who are building up our defense exports, not being shy about selling advanced systems to NATO countries.

          Moscow is making peace. But as we see, international law does not help her much in this.

          The Kremlin very often likes to refer to UN charters, to the decisions of this organization. So, the UN recognizes the PNS as the only legal political force in Libya. That is, Haftar in their understanding is an aggressor. Therefore, in this case, the Turks act on completely legal grounds, like Russia in Syria - that is, at the invitation of official and recognized authorities. Ankara can now send at least 50 thousand soldiers and 100 aircraft to Libya, and drive Haftar and all his troops into the ground. And no one will hinder the Turks from doing this, because international law is on their side. Moscow pursues its goals in Libya and just does not want to give it away. But we only support the bandit (this is from the point of view of international law, so I personally am for Haftar). The situation was similar to Syria: there we are legally behind Damascus, and the Turks are drowning for bandits, and in Libya everything is exactly the opposite. The only difference is that in Libya, Turkey wanted to spit on the interests of others, while in Syria we all press and cannot put Ankara in its place.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 28 May 2020 17: 20
            +1
            Less. It was Moscow that initiated the Turkish Stream, Akkuyu, and S-400 sales. I am not saying that the Turks have no interest in these projects, but all of them are more important to us. It is we who are looking for new ways of delivering gas to Europe, it is we who are building up our defense exports, not being shy about selling advanced systems to NATO countries.

            Come on. laughing You can argue for whom the Turkish Stream is more important and profitable, but otherwise no Turkey receives nuclear power plant for its 100th anniversary, cheap electricity will appear. For Russia, this is just one of the projects, especially built on credit. Before the advent of the S-400, talking about Turkish air defense was only a joke. Allies have not sold them for decades. For Russia, this is just a sale, again on credit. The C-400 line is worth it.

            The Kremlin very often likes to refer to UN charters, to the decisions of this organization. So the UN recognizes the PNS as the only legal political force in Libya. That is, Haftar in their understanding is an aggressor. Therefore, in this case, the Turks act on completely legal grounds, like Russia in Syria - that is, at the invitation of official and recognized authorities. Ankara can now send at least 50 thousand soldiers and 100 aircraft to Libya and drive Haftar and all his troops into the ground.

            What will prevent Russia from doing the same as the Turks in Idlib? They can generally recognize Haftar. As far as I remember, the government in Libya worked out its term, but no elections are expected. In addition, you should not simplify the situation, except for Russia and Turkey, there are still many external players.
            As soon as Turkey sends “50 thousand soldiers and 100 planes” to Libya, the Kurds will lay out selfies against the backdrop of the pool in Erdogan’s palace. 50 thousand. This is 20% of the ground forces.

            The situation was similar to Syria: we are there legally for Damascus, and the Turks drown for bandits, and in Libya everything is exactly the opposite. The only difference is that in Libya, Turkey wanted to spit on the interests of others, while in Syria we all press and cannot put Ankara in its place.

            Turkey wanted to spit everywhere on the interests of others, until it starts to receive an oar in physiognomy, then sanity and contractability return.

            Are you sure that the goal is to put Ankara in its place? Let's say the Turks squeezed out of Idlib, what's next? Assad’s troops will dance the Lezghinka on the border, that’s all. If you remember, "exhibits" from all over Syria were brought to the "Idlib Reserve". In addition to the barmalei, there are many who are both the opposition and the families of the militants. Are they simply filled with napalm or will punitive operations be enough to carry out? Plus all this horde must be fed. Syria in ruins. Hang them on our neck? The more the country's territory is under control, the less Assad is controlled, and there are still many problems in the country. It is necessary to restore the controlled territory, send the Iranians home, negotiate with the Kurds, and evict the Americans.
            1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
              Kristallovich (Ruslan) 28 May 2020 17: 51
              0
              What will prevent Russia from doing the same as the Turks in Idlib?

              I ask the same question if you do not understand ... We chew snot, we can not put Erdogan in place.

              As soon as Turkey sends “50 soldiers and 100 planes” to Libya, the Kurds will lay out selfies against the backdrop of the pool in Erdogan’s palace. 50 thousand. This is 20% of the ground forces.

              Is that what you decided? Who told you that?

              If you remember, "exhibits" from all over Syria were brought to the "Idlib Reserve". In addition to the barmaley there are many who are both the opposition and the families of the militants.

              In other provinces, a large-scale amnesty was carried out. Everyone could lay down their arms and start living a peaceful life. Most did so. And the frostbitten fled to Idlib, which means they deserve one thing - death. These are terrorists whose eyes are only a war. The conversation with them should be short. Or maybe a generous Turkey will accept them, and then it will be transported to Europe.
              Assad first needs to free the country from militants, and then negotiate with the Kurds. From their decision depends on how long the Americans will hang around in Syria.

              The more territory of the country is under control, the less we control Assad

              It is clear that Assad has his own interests. But at the same time, he perfectly understands that if we leave, he will be devoured very quickly.

              It is necessary to restore the controlled territory

              It is necessary. And it will be easier to do this when all hostilities are over in the country, the enemy will be defeated and the time will come for political negotiations with the Kurds. They do not need so much: seats in parliament and autonomy within Syria. As for me, this is the lesser of evils.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 28 May 2020 18: 29
                +2
                I ask the same question if you do not understand ... We chew snot, we can not put Erdogan in place.

                Why do we need this? Amusement to amuse? And bring it back to the Americans?

                Is that what you decided? Who told you that?

                I just looked at the number of ground troops - 260 thousand, 50 thousand in Syria, and there is Idlib, Syrian Kurdistan, still need to protect the border with Iran and Iraq. Kurdish partisans are not shy guys, and there are still millions of "peaceful" refugees. One should just start playing this game, maybe the Greeks will remember about Cyprus, or the Armenians will remember that Ararat is an Armenian mountain.
                In addition, to introduce 50 thousand is an inevitable loss. Erdogan’s popularity will be inversely proportional to the number of coffins coming from Libya. If they are still added from Idlib and Kurdistan, a new sultan will probably be needed.

                In other provinces, a large-scale amnesty was carried out. Everyone could lay down their arms and start living a peaceful life. Most did so. And the frostbitten fled to Idlib, which means they deserve one thing - death. These are terrorists whose eyes are only a war. The conversation with them should be short. Or maybe a generous Turkey will accept them, and then it will be transported to Europe.

                After all, someone lived in Idlib from the very beginning, before they started to take it away. Each “frostbitten” is at least one wife and several children. Want to personally explain to them what they deserve? Or do you want our troops to carry out a "small genocide"?
                Turkey, apparently, is not eager to receive them, so right now they are partially being utilized in Libya. Maybe Europe will partially accept it, but we also don’t really need a war in the neighborhood, moreover, they will partially settle in Central Asia. Why do we need this?

                Assad first needs to free the country from militants, and then negotiate with the Kurds. From their decision depends on how long the Americans will hang around in Syria.

                What can Assad offer the Kurds now? Slogans about united and indivisible Syria? They want an independent Kurdistan, in addition, several years ago they were actually thrown at the mercy of the Ishilovites. It is necessary to restore the country. He must show them the advantage of life in controlled territory.

                It is clear that Assad has his own interests. But at the same time, he perfectly understands that if we leave, he will be devoured very quickly.

                Of course, he understands, but the need for Russian help will decrease, and those who want to receive bonuses will not go anywhere. The same Iranians will demand their share.

                It is necessary. And it will be easier to do this when all hostilities are over in the country, the enemy will be defeated and the time will come for political negotiations with the Kurds. They do not need so much: seats in parliament and autonomy within Syria. As for me, this is the lesser of evils.

                Is Assad’s circle ready to give them autonomy? Now they are not ready to fight the Kurds, and then? A new war? Agreeing on autonomy is more likely now. Who is stopping negotiations now?
            2. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) 28 May 2020 18: 48
              -5
              Quote: 123
              It is necessary to restore the controlled territory, send the Iranians home, negotiate with the Kurds, and evict the Americans.

              Only the Iranians are not going to get home, and the Americans themselves decide when to evict. The Kurds actually created their quasi-state and will not go under Assad with its Alawites. laughing
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 28 May 2020 19: 00
                +3
                Only the Iranians are not going to get home, and the Americans themselves decide when to evict. The Kurds actually created their quasi-state and will not go under Assad with its Alawites.

                And who said it would be easy? Does it take time? By the way, how is Trump profitable from stolen Syrian oil? Things are good? Did the price fall not affect? And if closer to the elections, the partisans will begin to shoot .......
                In the meantime, pray that Russia will succeed and that this herd will not go to you. yes
                1. Binder Offline Binder
                  Binder (Miron) 28 May 2020 19: 16
                  -5
                  Quote: 123
                  In the meantime, pray that Russia will succeed and that this herd will not go to you

                  We are constantly driving these herds, there is a wealth of experience. We always managed, we will continue to manage. wassat
          2. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 29 May 2020 15: 20
            +3
            Not quite so, dear ... At least Turkey was even very interested in buying S-400 air defense systems from the Russian Federation, since the USA stubbornly refused to sell their Patriot air defense systems to Turkey, and the NATO units in Turkey armed with this air defense system (Turkey paid rent for the location of these complexes on its territory) NATO withdrew from Turkey, in fact, without asking the opinion of Turkey ... We all saw the price of international law in Yugoslavia ... worthless ...
  • Bakht Online Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 May 2020 17: 40
    +4
    The entire article is based on the statement "Russia lost in Libya." Was there a boy? Lost France with Italy, Emirates, Egypt ... And what does Russia have to do with it? That 8 (or 10) Russian-made aircraft ended up in Libya? Or unconfirmed information about PMC Wagner?
    Libyan hydrocarbon control? So does ENI and Schulberger do this? Which Russian companies deal with Libyan hydrocarbons after Gaddafi?
    The flow of refugees to Europe? And what does Russia have to do with it? This is a headache of the same France and Italy.
    Muslim Brothers or ISIS in Libya? This is Egypt's headache.

    I don’t even see the point of doing something to Russia in Libya. It was necessary to do earlier. Prevent the overthrow of Gaddafi. And now it's too late to drink Borjomi. The war in Syria can still be justified somehow. The war in Libya right now? ... If Russia wanted to help Haftar, then a dozen aircraft would not have done. Where is the supply?
    1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
      Kristallovich (Ruslan) 28 May 2020 17: 58
      -1
      And what does Russia have to do with it?

      Well, it’s not in vain that Haftar often went straight to Moscow at the same time ... Moreover, Libyan oil is needed by everyone. It is lightweight, perfectly processed. France needs the same. I think Putin and Macron have discussed this issue more than once.

      Or unconfirmed information about PMC Wagner?

      They are unconfirmed only for the blind. A bunch of photos and videos where comrades of Slavic appearance are posing in front of the cameras of smartphones. Just do not write that it is Ukrainian geologists who came to look for water ...

      If Russia wanted to help Haftar, then a dozen aircraft would have done. Where is the supply?

      I suggest to wait. Perhaps this issue will become clear soon ...
      1. Bakht Online Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 May 2020 18: 11
        +3
        So you have to wait.
        The report submitted to the UN on the activities of PMC Wagner in Libya is no longer relevant. It is based on unverified sources. And as the drafters of the report said, they do not have accurate data on the presence of the Russian military in Libya. The report is based on media publications and is not true.
        This is about how Bellinkat about a downed Boeing.

        So photographs in the media and other speculations of journalists can still be attributed to fakes.

        I do not deny a priori the absence of Russian mercenaries there. But there is a difference when official units of the Russian Army operate in Syria and when they write about mercenaries in Libya. Even if there are mercenaries, then officially Russia does not participate in the war in Libya. Unlike Syria.
        It is from this fact that the author of the article should proceed. Who lost in Libya? Russia or a private campaign? And speculation about Libyan oil is from the realm of fantasy. Russia does not have access to Libyan oil.
        1. nov_tech.vrn Offline nov_tech.vrn
          nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 29 May 2020 10: 13
          +2
          Today Saradzhians are boasting that they hit tank Xauthorand they repulsed the counterattacks, but thank you, yesterday you tore it like Tuzik a heating pad, and today you boast that you have repulsed the counterattacks. Where are the tanks from, gentlemen, you still captured them yesterday.
  • alexey alexeyev_2 (Alexey Alekseev) 1 June 2020 11: 39
    0
    There is only one all-crawler .. Do not say gop until you jump over. The sultan will fly out from Libya in the same way as he was thirsty a bit in Syria .. Smother ... clicks ..
  • Vasya Pupenko Offline Vasya Pupenko
    Vasya Pupenko (Vasya Pupenko) 6 June 2020 15: 15
    +1
    Therefore, it would not be an exaggeration to say that the campaign against Russia was won within 14 days.

    F. Halder. July 3, 1941