Why Russia abandoned the two most powerful ships in the world

34

Along with the world's largest submarines of the Shark class, the Russian fleet also has the heaviest and most powerful cruisers of the 1144 Orlan project today, writes the American Military Watch magazine. Designed in the 70s, these cruisers with a displacement of 28 thousand tons are even larger than some modern aircraft carriers, such as the French Mistral or the Japanese Izumo.

"Orlan" is equipped with a nuclear power plant, which allows it to go at a speed of 32 knots, and at the same time over long distances. This ship is ideal for projecting power in various parts of the oceans.



Currently, two of the four built cruisers of Project 1144 are withdrawn from the Russian fleet. These are Admiral Lazarev and Kirov. The remaining Peter the Great and Admiral Nakhimov will be modernized. Ships will significantly increase their firepower. They will receive up to 80 Caliber, Onyx or Zircon missiles, as well as the modern S-400 air defense system.

Nevertheless, the Russian fleet refused two “Orlanes” and there are reasons for that. The military leadership concluded that ships of smaller displacement, such as frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov class, could carry greater striking power in proportion to their size than huge cruisers. In addition, new ships are built using modern of technologies, providing less noticeability on enemy radars, which is especially true in the context of the dimensions of bulky nuclear cruisers.

Not the least role was played by operating costs. Nuclear cruisers are extremely expensive to maintain and require more than 1000 crew. For comparison, the crew of "Admiral Gorshkov" is only 170 people.
34 comments
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  1. T. Hanks
    T. Hanks
    +3
    April 17 2020 10: 46
    The most inconspicuous ship is unladen.
    1. weddu
      weddu
      -2
      April 17 2020 12: 51
      The most inconspicuous ship - nezalezhnom.
  2. 123
    123
    +3
    April 17 2020 11: 07
    Dear editors, to be honest, they are already fed up with these mysterious anonyms with incoherent fragments of the text submitted as articles.
    1. Kristallovich
      Kristallovich
      +2
      April 17 2020 11: 17
      Tired - do not read. Are you forced? This is a view from the West on certain decisions in Russia. This is interesting to many.
      1. 123
        123
        +1
        April 17 2020 11: 34
        Are you sure that the "opinion from the West" is correctly stated? Rather, it is a retelling, moreover, distorted and not high quality. A short, primitive statement of the essence, as the "anonymous author" understood it, or gives his opinion as "Western". Yes
        On the Military Watch website I found a suitable article: "Why the Russian Navy is Dismantling Two of its Most Powerful Surface Combat Ships: Nuclear Powered Kirov Cruisers' Operational Costs Run High"

        https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/why-the-russian-navy-is-dismantling-two-of-its-most-powerful-surface-combat-ships-nuclear-powered-kirov-cruisers-operational-costs-run-high

        If the basis for this article was another publication, I would appreciate a reference to the original article. hi
        1. Kristallovich
          Kristallovich
          +1
          April 17 2020 11: 39
          Be sure to send all of our authors to your master class. Only date and time do not forget to inform ...
          1. 123
            123
            +3
            April 17 2020 11: 44
            Coronavirus in the yard, now online is more relevant. If anything, let them turn. Yes If you do not agree with my conclusions, do not find it hard, read the original article. Your opinion on this issue is interesting. hi As a result, the publication gives the impression of a publication. Yes
            1. Kristallovich
              Kristallovich
              0
              April 17 2020 11: 48
              I am familiar with the original article. We do not translate word for word. There are no resources for this. The article is presented in an abridged form, key points. Only one publication in Runet makes a complete translation - Inosmi (MIA "Russia Today"). All others work with the abbreviated format.
              1. 123
                123
                0
                April 17 2020 11: 52
                Yes, I understand, it just turned out quite so-so in this case, including with key points. As a wish, a link to the original article would not be superfluous.
                1. Kristallovich
                  Kristallovich
                  0
                  April 17 2020 11: 55
                  Really? Key points: what kind of ships, their features, modernization, reasons for failure. All the main things are put together.
                  1. 123
                    123
                    -1
                    April 17 2020 12: 00
                    This is a subjective assessment, I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth. hi
                    If mentioning a publication in another publication, having a link at the end of the article would be a great innovation. good
                    1. Kristallovich
                      Kristallovich
                      0
                      April 17 2020 12: 04
                      I answered you in the PM about this ...
      2. shadow
        shadow
        -1
        April 17 2020 22: 51
        I’m wondering what the West thinks about what’s going on in our country.
  3. Afinogen
    Afinogen
    +2
    April 17 2020 11: 29
    The remaining Peter the Great and Admiral Nakhimov will be modernized.

    There will be only one "Peter the Great" if "Admiral Nakhimov" is not renamed. There have never been such ships in history (with such a name) that they did not suffer a disaster. So you will believe in evil fate.

    1. Astronaut
      Astronaut
      0
      April 17 2020 11: 36
      Pah-pah-pah.
    2. Sapsan136
      Sapsan136
      +1
      April 17 2020 22: 33
      What is evil rock ?! The armored cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, who died in Tsushima, was a worn-out obsolete ship at the time of its death, with 35 8-inch caliber guns firing still powder, and its death in a battle with the enemy’s modern ships at that time was obvious ... Passenger ship Admiral Nakhimov preparing for the cancellation, went on the last voyage, and his crew was a rabble deducted from other ships for misconduct ... The result was also predictable ... The Japanese called the new destroyer-helicopter carrier Izumo, despite the fact that the aircraft carrier this title was sunk, and not steamed about superstition ...
      1. Bitter
        Bitter
        +2
        April 18 2020 00: 07
        ..his death in battle with the enemy’s modern ships at that time was obvious ...

        So, deliberately sent bonded people to slaughter? sad

        his crew was a rabble deducted from other ships for misconduct ...

        And these were simply written off - for wrongdoing? sad

        ... don't worry about superstitions ...

        Most likely, they still take a steam bath, maybe not so straightforward about superstitions, but for their warriors they really get away to take into account a lot of what was and what can still be.

        In general, the potential of the ships is enormous, and if modernized, then "price - quality - time" must correspond.
        But here, as always, the problem of responsibility for the development of the allocated funds as intended is drawn. The farm is on "self-financing" and the loot must probably have time to scroll somewhere else a couple of times until it goes into business as intended. Well, the timing is not a problem, there you can drop a faucet, and a dock to sink, and arrange a fireman, and God knows what else a business is capable of for 300% of the profit.
        1. Sapsan136
          Sapsan136
          +3
          April 18 2020 08: 51
          I did not say that people were written off and disposed of. I said that from poor preparation and discipline of the crew you can never expect anything good. Rozhestvensky’s squadron was sent to the aid of the Arthur’s squadron, and after its death, and under the command of Zinovy, who made his entire career at the royal court, and not at sea, the result of the battle was predictable ... If the Japanese are soaring, then how it’s better to equip your fleet and train crews, and not about the names of the ships ..
          1. Bitter
            Bitter
            +1
            April 19 2020 15: 41
            ... what is the best way to equip your fleet and train crews, and not about ship names ..

            I think the names are also "soared", and they also have traditions in the navy, and they are respected, otherwise the ordinal numbers would be enough.
            1. Sapsan136
              Sapsan136
              +1
              April 19 2020 20: 16
              Nevertheless, the Yapis are not afraid to call their new ships the names of ships previously sunk ...
  4. Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev
    -2
    April 17 2020 13: 21
    In general, if you remove the water, then "there is no money."
    On the operation, modernization, and even missiles on a full-fledged volley ....

    Therefore, they brought it out, but they were not in a hurry to cut it .... what if it was useful to someone ...
  5. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136
    +1
    April 17 2020 22: 26
    All this is true, but the frigate will not be able to carry the ammunition of the cruiser ... It is clear that the ships built back in the USSR do not become younger and more modern, but this does not mean that the small frigate can become an equivalent replacement for the cruiser ...
  6. Winnie
    Winnie
    -1
    April 18 2020 03: 21
    Frigates (according to the Soviet classification of the TFR patrol ship) are intended for operations in the far sea zone, but not in the ocean. Therefore, cruisers and destroyers are irreplaceable !!!
  7. Alexander Samoilov
    Alexander Samoilov
    +1
    April 18 2020 11: 37
    I have long known that unprofessional idiots work in Military Watch. But you managed to surpass them.

    ... ships of lesser displacement, such as Admiral Gorshkov class frigates, can carry greater striking power in proportion to their size than huge cruisers.

    How can you compare the frigates of Project 22350, on which there is not a single supersonic anti-ship missile system and not a single air defense missile system with the Orlans? Subsonic "Calibers" are only suitable for shooting donkeys. It is indecent to put them even next to "Granites". And this is a completely clinical case:

    Nuclear cruisers are extremely expensive to maintain and require more than 1000 crew. For comparison, the crew of "Admiral Gorshkov" is only 170 people.

    First, there are 1144 people for 759 crew. Secondly, the "pots" are 5 times less in displacement. And on 5 frigates the crew will be 850 people. So on cruisers, electronics of the 80s. After upgrading to a modern one, it will be possible to cut it in half, as in the Ticonderogs. negative
    1. Kristallovich
      Kristallovich
      +2
      April 18 2020 13: 52
      How can you compare the frigates of Project 22350, on which there is not a single supersonic anti-ship missile system and not a single air defense missile system with the Orlans?

      Come on? Universal launchers can shoot and supersonic Onyx. The test Zircon is also suitable. The anti-ship version of the "Caliber" 3M-54E in the final section of the flight accelerates to a speed of more than 3000 km / h. You would first read the performance characteristics of missiles before you write nonsense.

      As for the article as a whole, the author brings to readers the already well-known decision of the Russian Ministry of Defense: 3 frigates are better than one Orlan, at least because 3 combat units are better than one.
      1. Alexander Samoilov
        Alexander Samoilov
        -2
        April 25 2020 20: 49
        Universal launchers can shoot and supersonic Onyx. The test Zircon is also suitable.

        Why do you think so? The Onyx diameter is 14 cm larger than the Caliber. And from UVP 3S14 it has never been used. Considering the declared range and speed of the Zircon, its length will be no less than 10 m, which with a PU height of 9,58 m completely eliminates the use. 3M-54 switches to supersonic for 20 km. to the goal. This is nothing. Actually, even 120 km of the low-altitude trajectory of the P-800, against the SM-6, will not help it in any way. Naturally, much more dough can be cut on six new frigates than on the modernization of two old cruisers. But in the end, our fleet can only fight with the partisans. lol
        1. Kristallovich
          Kristallovich
          +1
          April 25 2020 22: 29
          Why do you think so?

          Why then, in principle, do you need UVP?

          The Onyx diameter is 14 cm larger than the Caliber.

          So what? Do you know the diameter of TPN?

          Given the declared range and speed of the Zircon, its length will be no less than 10 m.

          These are your own thoughts. No need to pull them on the truth.

          Actually even 120 km. low-altitude trajectory of the P-800, against the SM-6 will not help her in any way.

          You can break through any missile defense system. The matter is in quantity.

          Here is a photo of the launch of the PJ-10 from the Indian Talwar (built at the Yantar plant). Frigates have UKS 3S14.

  8. Dear sofa expert.
    Dear sofa expert.
    +1
    April 19 2020 00: 07
    Of course, I’m not a sailor, but I don’t understand how to compare ships with completely different purposes ???

    The main purpose of the frigate is the fight against an air and underwater enemy, accompanied by the main forces of the fleet and especially important convoys. A versatile escort ship capable of operating at any distance from the coast.

    Cruiser - a class of surface combat ships capable of performing tasks independently of the main fleet, including fighting the light forces of the fleet and the merchant ships of the enemy, defending the formations of warships and convoys of ships, providing fire support to the coastal flanks of ground forces and ensuring the landing of naval landings, minefields and others.

    This is something from the series: who is stronger, an elephant or a whale?
  9. Yuriy Malyshko
    Yuriy Malyshko
    +3
    April 19 2020 01: 41
    Russia abandoned two Orlans, because it first ditched them, then rotted away in a long-term sludge, and then realized that neither the mind, nor the strength, nor the funds would be enough to restore and modernize them.
    1. Sergey Tokarev
      Sergey Tokarev
      +1
      April 19 2020 07: 46
      And what's the point in all these floating installations of useless power, if modern weapons allow you to drown any fleet at any distance from land? Deliver toilet paper to Georgians with aircraft carriers? Boats armed with calibers can safely sink US aircraft carriers with all their guards. And modern EW tools turn any vessel into a useless trough.
      1. Winnie
        Winnie
        -3
        April 19 2020 18: 31
        Well, you, damn it, Budyonny! "The glorious and heroic 1st Cavalry Army will stop the breakthrough of German tanks!" Eventually: went for meat.
      2. Bitter
        Bitter
        0
        April 19 2020 22: 27
        Boats armed with calibers

        Ukraine follows a similar path and they have even fewer boats, but over time they will be more and more. They will turn a quantity of any craft into a pile of scrap metal.

        ... can calmly sink ...

        Interesting logic according to the principle, "why are we?"

        And what's the point in all these floating installations of useless power if

        Likewise, with "calibrated" boats, someone will just express their concern and the performance will end without starting.
  10. Wizard_57
    Wizard_57
    +2
    April 21 2020 10: 06
    Quote: Sapsan136
    The Japanese named Izumo the new helicopter destroyer, despite the fact that the aircraft carrier of the same name was sunk

    But from this moment in more detail, please. The cruiser Izumo was built by Armstrong, I remember the flagship of Admiral Kamimura, but the aircraft carrier Izumo ???
  11. nnz226
    nnz226
    0
    April 22 2020 20: 44
    True, there is a nuance: "Gorshkov" cannot go for a long time at a speed of 32 knots, and the cruising range is so-so ... From Sevastopol to Cape Town, or from Vladivostok to Singapore without refueling!