Are the Turks able to arrange the Mediterranean Tsushima Russian fleet


Today, negotiations between the Russian and Turkish presidents to resolve the situation in Idlib should be held. Most domestic experts and political scientists are inclined to believe that the parties will be able to find a compromise solution that will not allow a direct military conflict to happen between Moscow and Ankara.


The Kremlin’s argument in the negotiations is the dispatch of two Admiral Series frigates equipped with Caliber cruise missiles to the Mediterranean Sea to the coast of Syria. A patriotic public relishes the possibilities of our naval power. But what in reality can our union in the Eastern Mediterranean expect if the situation nevertheless goes “apart” and the Turks and American allies start fighting with us “without fools”?

About how Russia, the USA and Turkey are building up their groups near Syria, we detail We wrote earlier. Let’s try to figure out what can really be expected from our fleet “beyond the three seas”, and how much today our Navy meets the challenges of the time.

The strongest warships in the formation are the three frigates of the 11356P series, so we will dwell a little more on their advantages and disadvantages. This series is a modified, or rather, a simplified version of the export version of the frigate for India under the name Talwar. Unfortunately, simpler in this case does not mean better.

A universal naval firing complex on it is simpler than similar in Indian requirements. The launcher is capable of receiving only Caliber cruise missiles in an amount of not more than 8 pieces per frigate. The ships lack a towed sonar station (BGAS), which drastically reduces its ability to counter enemy submarines. This is a rather strange decision, given that the main purpose of the ship is the fight against submarines.

So, we have three weakened frigates in foreign waters, having in total a maximum of 24 cruise missiles on board. To put it mildly, not a lot. Plus, in the Mediterranean Sea we have two Varshavyanka submarines, each carrying 4 Caliber. Total 32 cruise missiles per salvo.

For comparison, now the Syrian Navy is headed by the Eisenhower aircraft carrier. He is accompanied by two Ticonderoga class missile cruisers and three Arly Burke class destroyers. There are several sub-series of American destroyers, in some trim levels they are capable of carrying up to 97 Tomahawks. By peacetime standards, one Arly Burke has an average of 32 cruise missiles, that is, how many Caliber we have in the Mediterranean Sea.

There are three such destroyers there now. Plus to them - two missile cruisers of the Ticonderoga class. Each of them has 122 launch cells, of which 26 are Tomahawks. Plus, somewhere under the water, an Ohio class submarine with 154 Tomahawks and 5 Trident II D24 ballistic missiles is hiding. Well, the aircraft carrier Eisenhower himself with his wing.

The balance of power, to put it mildly, is not in our favor. And we still did not consider the Turkish fleet. The Turkish Navy is objectively the strongest in the region, dominating both the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Against our three weakened frigates, Ankara will now display 16 of its frigates of German and American projects, which are capable of sending 96 missiles in one gulp. In addition, 13 submarines equipped with the most modern torpedo weapons and sonar systems will be put up against our two Varshavyanka.

If you call a spade a spade, then our formation in the Mediterranean is enough for 1 missile salvo, after which the frigates will somehow have to try to dodge the enemy’s missiles and torpedoes. How it will end up for them is not difficult to guess. In the event of a war with Turkey, we will get our “Tsushima”, frankly speaking.

Therefore, one must be friends with one’s head, and everyone who is eager to “wet the Turks”, tapping their fingers on the keyboard, should sign up as a volunteer in the Syrian army and go to help Assad liberate Idlib. The maximum tasks that can be set for our formation near the coast of the SAR is the cover of the Russian contingent in Khmeimim.

And it would be nice to think about why the real combat capabilities of our Navy are so limited. Why was the construction program of far more powerful frigates of the project 22350 disrupted? Why, instead of the analogues of the almost universal “Arly Berks”, the foundations of the US Navy, are we building small missile ships that are not able to effectively resist enemy submarines? Why is the torpedo armament of our Varshavyanka inferior to modern Western models? Why are our patrol ships relatively weakly armed?

All these questions are worth looking for answers.
Photos used: https://www.dzkk.tsk.tr/
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  1. Kostyar Offline
    Kostyar 5 March 2020 14: 36
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    And it would be nice to think about why the real combat capabilities of our Navy are so limited. Why was the construction program of far more powerful frigates of the project 22350 disrupted? Why, instead of the analogues of the almost universal “Arly Berks”, the foundations of the US Navy, are we building small missile ships that are not able to effectively resist enemy submarines? Why is the torpedo armament of our Varshavyanka inferior to modern Western models? Why are our patrol ships relatively weakly armed?

    And in my opinion, for all of these why, the answer is pretty obvious .....
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 5 March 2020 19: 38
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      And in my opinion, for all of these why, the answer is pretty obvious .....

      Apparently imbued with the article? If you argue in the style proposed by the author, if you delve into the question, then you can hardly unambiguously answer it with one sentence. Try to formulate?
      1. Nick Offline
        Nick (Nikolai) 6 March 2020 21: 15
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        Quote: 123
        And in my opinion, for all of these why, the answer is pretty obvious .....

        Apparently imbued with the article? If you argue in the style proposed by the author, if you delve into the question, then you can hardly unambiguously answer it with one sentence. Try to formulate?

        When there is no possibility to think and analyze, it only remains to be imbued with fake garbage. Marzhetsky does not understand arithmetic very well, but IMHO is completely unfamiliar with strategy. Anyway, the author behaves like a sharpie. Yes, three frigates of the 11356P series, located in the SM, do not have a GAS, but each has an anti-submarine helicopter on its board, which creates great opportunities for searching and detecting submarines, but the author does not care. By the number of missiles in a salvo in the areas of the World Cup and SM, Russia has no competitors even nearby. The author “forgot” about the presence of coastal anti-ship missiles available at the World Cup, in the region of Novorossiysk, and in Crimea, which cover the entire water area of ​​the World Cup.
        The author did not mention the presence of our multi-purpose nuclear submarines on permanent duty in the Mediterranean armed with powerful supersonic Granites, the author “forgot” about the Caspian flotilla that can cover the entire water area of ​​the World Cup, SM, and objects in Turkey and in Syria.
        The author "forgot" about the number of aviation hypersonic daggers. 10 units located together with carriers near Akhtubinsk, which reach both the SM and the World Cup.
        The author "forgot" about the airbase of strategists near Saratov, which in a salvo can issue about 500 missiles of the X-101 and X555 type.
        The author "forgot" about the Mozdok air base, on which you can quickly deploy up to 20 units of our Tu-22 M3, which can deliver a salvo of 40 units of the Tempest-M hypersonic missiles, designed to hit sea and ground targets to a depth of 1000 km
        The author did not mention Khmeimim about our air base either.
        In a word, in the case of a serious mess, Russia can give out, in aggregate, a missile salvo at coastal and sea targets of 900-1000 units, and arrange for someone in the Black Sea-Mediterranean region a small Armageddon.
        1. syndicalist Offline
          syndicalist (Dimon) 7 March 2020 08: 20
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          And so little has been piled into our pile — only the Caspian flotilla and Saratov strategists? We still have cigars near Kozelsk. And why didn’t they add on our Chinese “ally”?
          1. Nick Offline
            Nick (Nikolai) 7 March 2020 08: 25
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            You can not understand. This is not for the middle brain.
        2. Accidentally Offline
          Accidentally 7 March 2020 11: 21
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          In a word, in the case of a serious mess Russia can give out ...

          ....... beyond this analyst you can simply not read. Let me give you an example - now the former Central Strategic Missile Forces Plant V / h 44528, now the Aviation Instrument-Making Plant, eke out a miserable existence, now it belongs to the RF Ministry of Defense and produces some simulators ... Nick, what are you going to fight ????? Keep on wagging your tongue.
          1. Nick Offline
            Nick (Nikolai) 8 March 2020 10: 55
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            Quote: Kazara
            Nick, what are you going to fight ?????

            I'm not going to fight. But if necessary, I recommend reading my post above, there is already something listed.

            Quote: Kazara
            Keep on wagging your tongue.

            I, unlike you, do not lick the keyboard.
          2. Nick Offline
            Nick (Nikolai) 8 March 2020 11: 02
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            Quote: Kazara
            ... you can’t simply read beyond this analyst. Let me give you an example - at present, the former Central Plant of the Strategic Missile Forces, military unit # 44528, now the Aviation Instrument-Making Plant, eke out a miserable existence ..

            fool negative stop You can’t read further if you think that the Strategic Missile Forces repair plant, now airborne, fired all types of missiles throughout the country - from ICBMs to signal ones.
      2. Nick Offline
        Nick (Nikolai) 6 March 2020 21: 22
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        Yes, if the author seriously thinks that American sailors, far from their native coasts, really want and are going to fight on the near approaches to the Russian borders with the Russian Armed Forces, then he is hopelessly naive.
        Yours faithfully, hi
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 6 March 2020 21: 45
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          Yes, if the author seriously thinks that American sailors, far from their native coasts, really want and are going to fight on the near approaches to the Russian borders with the Russian Armed Forces, then he is hopelessly naive.

          I think the point is not naivety, rather, "the conditions of the puzzle are tailored to the answer." Just an eyeliner to the desired conclusion. hi
          1. Nick Offline
            Nick (Nikolai) 6 March 2020 23: 05
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            Quote: 123
            I think the point is not naivety, rather, "the conditions of the puzzle are tailored to the answer." Just an eyeliner

            Yes, in fact, I also think so.
  2. steelmaker Offline
    steelmaker 5 March 2020 14: 44
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    The article is killer-convincing, if you fight in the Mediterranean Sea and with Turkey in general. And if so scary, why climb into Syria? It turns out that Putin has no analysts, only sneaks surround him? But he himself doesn’t know how to count at all? Do not upset me. I already do not have a high opinion of Putin. And if they started to fight, then Putin should have listened to the MILITARY, not diplomats. And I doubt that in this situation in Idlib, the military recommended Putin to start negotiations with Erdogan !? Conclusion: The Turks themselves are afraid of Russia, and the United States of the DPRK were frightened themselves when they realized that they would get the change!
  3. Cheburashk Offline
    Cheburashk (Vladimir) 5 March 2020 15: 18
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    About the equipment of our ships, plus everything to the submarine, the author seems to know all the secrets and their secret capabilities. If, as they say, there is not one, then it is not a fact that there is nothing else (in relation to our ships in the Mediterranean).
    Unfortunately, I have to agree that the program for the construction of much more powerful frigates of project 22350 (((
    1. Dear sofa expert. 7 March 2020 12: 12
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      Who told you that the program was disrupted?

      ... Initially, they wanted to limit the series of frigates of project 22350 to four ships, but last year it was decided to lay down two more combat ships of this project: Admiral Amelko and Admiral Chichagov, which were laid in April 2019 ..
  4. gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 5 March 2020 15: 46
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    Therefore, one must be friends with one’s head, and everyone who is eager to “wet the Turks”, tapping their fingers on the keyboard, should sign up as a volunteer in the Syrian army and go to help Assad liberate Idlib.

    - Yes, such courageous courageous people who did not serve in the army either; and if they served ... - then in the construction battalion ... - enough in excess ... - however, they have recently tightened their tails ... - I won’t call them ...- they are already known .. .
    -Now "on the topic" ... - today it is too late to talk about the Russian Navy ... - it, by and large, is not ... - No, de facto ...- it seems to exist .., but to fulfill serious combat missions in the distance, somewhere in the vast expanses of the ocean ...- our fleet is simply not capable ... - I will not give facts confirming this; although I can do it easily ... - Yes, and many themselves know about it ...
    - Our fleet today cannot carry out independent combat missions, but is only able to provide local support to our coastal ground forces ... - There is no serious strike-impact on the enemy’s forces, which is well-fortified, possessing real air defense and other defensive means and strike means defeat ...- our fleet is not capable ... - Even the submarine fleet has very serious problems and lags in terms of quantity and quality ... - And about some naval battles with the "well-advanced" naval the enemy ... - there can be no question ...
    - When our boats fired “Caliber” from the Caspian Sea into white light, like a penny, these Caliber could be released from land territory - it makes no difference ... - this is not the merit of the Fleet; just then there was still a treaty banning INF Treaty ...- then they fired from boats ...

    - But figs with him, with the fleet ...
    “But I personally was scared (probably, and not just me alone) by the fact that it was crying ... how simple, simple, primitive, self-made (in the sense of made according to the simplest technological gadget) Turkish drones ... -are entering a space guarded our air defense !!!!!
    - And where is our electronic warfare ??? - Yes, such weak, worthless Turkish drones could be neutralized, blinded, incapacitated, just put them all on the ground; or make them fly and bomb in Turkey itself (this is in a good situation) ... - And these simple, slow-moving kites (they can be shot down not with missiles, but with anti-aircraft “machine-gun artillery” ...- they strike at Syrian positions ... - Here we are ...
    -So then talk about the Israeli military aviation, supported by a sophisticated software system; excellent electronic warfare system; multi-stage electronic jamming ... and other means of ensuring electronic security and adjustment ... - where already ...
    - And there’s nothing to say about the fleet ... - By the way, who released these corvettes of ours into the Mediterranean Sea without proper cover ... - There is no good air cover ... - Turkish drones will arrive in the same way and launch a bombing strike on our ships ... - this is even much easier to do than for a land target. - And what will our admirals report later ...- that, they say, we shot down 15-20 drones; and the rest of the drones drowned us ... - Although they would provide underwater anti-submarine cover for ships ... - Where are our submarines ... - although in this sea they will be visible at a glance ... - Such things are ...
    - To the author, a respectman and my plus ...
    1. werevolf75 Offline
      werevolf75 (Vladimir) 5 March 2020 18: 19
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      Reading some comments, thoughts involuntarily come that it would be better for individual "experts" to do cooking ...
    2. Binder Offline
      Binder (Miron) 5 March 2020 21: 23
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      Quote: gorenina91
      And what will our admirals report later ...- that they say we shot down 15-20 drones; and the rest of the drones drowned us ..

      The Turks, unexpectedly for many, demonstrated in Idlib the very effective combat work of drones. In reality, today the Russian military is not able to oppose the enemy using similar methods of warfare with any effective means of counteraction. At sea, the situation is similar - the technological lag of the Russian military-industrial complex does not leave Russians any chance of success in an armed conflict with anyone stronger than Georgia ...
      1. Dear sofa expert. 6 March 2020 14: 34
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        Highly efficient operation of Turkish drones

        - consists in the work of the Office of these funds, often from foreign (neutral) territories. And this is in the conditions of "not war." Pretty petty tactics. In the Russian doctrine, there is a completely distinct answer to this.
        1. Binder Offline
          Binder (Miron) 6 March 2020 18: 44
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          What kind of "intelligible answer" is it?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Dear sofa expert. 7 March 2020 12: 28
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            Anyone who knows the Russian language well enough and understands the situation can interpret this phrase not only in relation to the Americans and their missiles, but also to everyone else:

            .. “I’ll say it straightforwardly and openly today, so that no one later reproaches us with anything, so that it is clear to everyone in advance what this is about. Russia will be forced to create and deploy types of weapons that can be used not only in relation to the territories from which the corresponding direct threat will come for us, but also in relation to those territories where there are decision centers on the use of missile systems that threaten us, ” - Putin emphasized.
            1. Binder Offline
              Binder (Miron) 7 March 2020 14: 11
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              And Putin showed a couple of advertising cartoons. laughing
    3. Dear sofa expert. 6 March 2020 14: 27
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      Fu, how unpleasant to read your reviews .. "construction battalion" ...

      ... Military construction units - formations (military units and divisions) in a number of states, intended for the preparation of theaters of military operations: the construction of military infrastructure, long-term defensive structures and communications, as well as the arrangement and cantonment of troops in both the military and peace time...

      This is for you to at least a meager understanding of what you are trying to write about at the level of your spinal cord.
  5. Valentine Offline
    Valentine (Valentin) 5 March 2020 19: 09
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    Well, again, "everything is lost"? But you can do it without hysteria and scuffle about or without, and now it is not a matter of the fleet and the number of aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean Sea, but that we are one of the two strongest nuclear powers, and no one argues with that but ..... because we already feel on our own skin, sparks of escalation of this tension, and not only in the Middle East, but also in the Far East, and even in the center of Europe, and it will crash somewhere, so much so that it doesn’t seem enough, at first they’ll “indulge” with conventional weapons, and then the use of tactical nuclear will be the epilogue weapons, and Syria with part of Turkey - the most suitable for this zone of action, the Caribbean crisis somehow slipped through in the 60s of the last century, but now this will not work - the world economy is stagnating, and the best incentive and detente for it is, Regrettably, the war, and even if this does not happen in the coming months, it will still be later, and it will not rust for us to use nuclear weapons if there is nowhere to go .... or again we will cut everything into scrap metal and lie under the Americans ?
  6. Roarv Offline
    Roarv (Robert) 5 March 2020 19: 32
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    It sets out well ...
    But I forgot to take into account the yacht flotilla in the Mediterranean Sea, our Liberal Guard from the FORBES list.
  7. AICO Offline
    AICO (Vyacheslav) 5 March 2020 19: 32
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    All these questions are worth looking for answers.

    - With a Mauser in his hands !!!
  8. 123 Offline
    123 (123) 5 March 2020 19: 34
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    Dear author, I get the impression that you have a split personality, or the authors team is working under this pseudonym. Articles that are too different in content and degree of adequacy are obtained. In this case, not the best part of the team worked. no

    Are the Turks able to arrange the Mediterranean Tsushima Russian fleet

    A good introduction, why not compare the capabilities of the fleets. good
    Next, we consider the armament of our frigates and everything seems to be fine, but ...

    The launcher is capable of receiving only Caliber cruise missiles in an amount of not more than 8 pieces per frigate.

    What does it mean significant only? belay Firstly, not only if we talk about the confrontation between the fleets, it would be reasonable to recall the Onyx, they are designed to strike at sea targets. Secondly, is "Caliber" already "only" for you? Already so-so, nothing special? What is out of date?
    Come on, let's see what's on the other side .....

    For comparison, now the AUG of the US Navy headed by the Eisenhower aircraft carrier is going to the coast of Syria

    And on the captain’s bridge in a luxurious turban stands Gregory Brown Pasha .... winked Arrived. belay Carrier group donated to the Sultan? Or is the United States ready to rush into a fight with Russia at the first call of Erdogan? Is Idlib so important to Trump?
    A very strange comparison, something like - let's compare the kangaroo population in Russia and England .... In England, more is obtained. yes And why? But because Australia is part of the British Commonwealth. Here is such an analysis from the gateway. what We look further ...

    The balance of power, to put it mildly, is not in our favor. And we still did not consider the Turkish fleet.

    And we are not going to count it, just list the number of ships, it is piece by piece more and okay. At the same time, we compare our ships only those located in Syria, without taking into account the fact that the Caliber will fly easily from the Black Sea, and that 1-2 nuclear submarines can be near the carrier group, we will not take into account. But the Turks will count everything, because they can, if something happens, instantly teleport from the Black Sea. After all, everyone knows that Turkish ships can do this without exception, even the latest old pelvis.
    Why is this counting done? You can be true to your principles. yes All this is just an introduction, smoothly bring to the main message.

    If you call a spade a spade, then our formation in the Mediterranean is enough for 1 missile salvo, after which the frigates will somehow have to try to dodge the enemy’s missiles and torpedoes. How it will end up for them is not difficult to guess. In the event of a war with Turkey, we will get our “Tsushima”, frankly speaking.

    Here it is, a highlight, they again tell us about our "orphan and wretchedness", we are weak, we cannot do anything, and so on. By the way, it’s interesting to see frigates dodging missiles. belay Is this a new tactic?

    Therefore, one must be friends with one’s head, and everyone who is eager to “wet the Turks”, tapping their fingers on the keyboard, should sign up as a volunteer in the Syrian army and go to help Assad liberate Idlib. The maximum tasks that can be set for our formation near the coast of the SAR is the cover of the Russian contingent in Khmeimim.

    As for those who want to “wet” the Turks in a dashing cavalry attack, it’s probably right, by the way, as well as the fact that for an analyst like you, it would also be nice to send for a year to scrape the deck somewhere on the Perekop.
    I don’t even want to discuss the last paragraph; suddenly there was an attack of nostalgia for the good old paper. The monitor, like a newspaper with a lousy little article, can not be crumpled and can not be thrown into the bin. hi
  9. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 5 March 2020 19: 59
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    Are the Turks able to arrange Tsushima? Yes, they can ...
    Will the Turks arrange Tsushima? No, they will not ...
    It is possible to count by the piece (over the heads, as the rams think). But in real life it doesn’t work out that way.
  10. Dart2027 Offline
    Dart2027 5 March 2020 20: 13
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    Yes, what is Tsushima in our time? Missiles and aviation will decide everything, because the Black Sea Fleet is shot through, by the same DBK from the Crimea, and in the SM and during the USSR, if something happened, there was no chance.
    1. PSih2097 Offline
      PSih2097 (Alexander Latvian) 5 March 2020 22: 15
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      Quote: Dart2027
      the same DBK from the Crimea

      Sevastopol - Istanbul in a straight line - 546 km.
      the range of the DBK Ball is 120 km with the Kh-35 missile and 260 km with the Kh-35U missile
      the range of DBK Bastion - P-800 Onyx is up to 800 km, but it does not have a head with Special Special War ...
      Well and GRKR "Moscow" with the Volcanoes.
      1. Dart2027 Offline
        Dart2027 6 March 2020 07: 08
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        Quote: PSih2097
        P-800 Onyx is up to 800 km, but it does not have a head with Special Special Warheads

        In Istanbul, RTOs will operate with Caliber, a range of 1500 km, with Special Special Warheads 2500 km. DBK "Bastion" will work in the fleet.
      2. Dear sofa expert. 7 March 2020 12: 31
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        For you, Turkey begins in Istanbul?)) Look at the map.
  11. Sapsan136 Offline
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 5 March 2020 20: 50
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    No one bothers the Russian Federation to send a consolidated detachment of ships of the Baltic, Northern and Pacific fleets, including nuclear submarines, to the Mediterranean Sea, and reinforce the Black Sea Fleet with ships of the Caspian flotilla. Against this, Turkey does not have enough gunpowder. And missile attacks by supersonic X-22 Storm with Tu-22M3 and Daggers with MiG-31 also need to be considered ... And do not scare us with the US Navy !!! The United States is not Turkey, the military doctrine of the Russian Federation clearly states -

    In case of war against the Russian Federation of two or more countries, the Russian Federation uses nuclear weapons ...

    The Yankees know this and are unlikely to want to die under Russian nuclear warheads over Turkey ... Their own shirt is closer to the body ... Even the United States is afraid and not at risk of fighting against a nuclear power like North Korea.
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 6 March 2020 00: 37
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      I agree with the comment, but let me ask one question ... Why in Israel?

      In turn, I can advise Marzhecki to renounce citizenship of the Russian Federation and flee from Russia to Israel, shouting - Guard, save who can ...

      Just the other day, I was advised about the same thing and about the same words. sad By the way, if I’m not mistaken, they also discussed Turkey. Is this a local tradition like this on a site? laughing
    2. IGOR ENTIN Offline
      IGOR ENTIN (Igor) 6 March 2020 01: 25
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      Nobody will wave the boreas and other vigorous loaves for Syria. The adversary understands this too.
      1. Dear sofa expert. 7 March 2020 12: 33
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        Have you read the article?) It's about the confrontation between Russia and Turkey.
    3. Arkharov Offline
      Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 6 March 2020 12: 27
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      But are there no boats on Baikal yet? It is possible by rail to the World Cup. Already collect everything, so collect.
      1. Sapsan136 Offline
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 12: 35
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        Do you pretend to wit? The Caspian flotilla has two multipurpose missile corvettes (according to NATO classification) of project 11661, three new missile defense systems of the Buyan-M type and this is not a boat ... Such forces can completely destroy 6 Turkish corvettes (type B), for example, they won’t even have time to make a noise. .. In addition, the Caspian flotilla of the Russian Federation is smashed by 7 minesweepers, which can also significantly strengthen the mine forces of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation.
        1. Arkharov Offline
          Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 6 March 2020 12: 42
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          Well closer, not like from the Baltic to the Far East.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 12: 46
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            It’s close enough there that you can quickly transfer ships of the Caspian flotilla of the Russian Federation to help the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, if necessary ...
            1. Arkharov Offline
              Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 6 March 2020 12: 48
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              You write to the Ministry of Defense, it seems they do not guess. Just don’t pull, anyway it takes time to transfer.
              1. Sapsan136 Offline
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 12: 49
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                You do not know that, but the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is in the know and ships from the Caspian Sea to the Black Sea have been transferred more than once.
  12. Sapsan136 Offline
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 5 March 2020 21: 19
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    By the way, Marzhetsky, frigates of the 11356 type in the West are classified as air defense frigates rather than PLO ... you really need to know this before you write something ... They simplified the Talvars like simplified frigates ... Talvars are armed with export missiles , with reduced performance ... are carrying 24 Shtil air defense missiles each, in export version ... At 11356 Shtil air defense missile system consists of 32 missiles ....
  13. cmonman Offline
    cmonman (Garik Mokin) 6 March 2020 01: 53
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    Bravo, Sergey, bravo !!! You with your article created the famous Aporea of ​​the Greek philosopher Zeno. And he was very famous for his aporia. One of the most famous is that Achilles will never catch up with a turtle. While Achilles running after the turtle runs 100 steps - turtle 10, Achilles 10 steps - turtle 1 step, etc.

    From Yandex.Zen:

    What is the catch of the aporites? Why did the obvious fact suddenly become a mystery? It is clear that Achilles will catch up, the arrow flies, the person reaches the intended point. But in fact, following the logic of Zeno - NO. Because he broke time and space into pieces, showing their discreteness. And in such a discrete time-space, Zeno's seemingly delirious arguments are irrefutable.

    You also took one part (or one day) from the situation at sea around Syria and made a “deep” conclusion with a rhetorical question. The forum users above correctly answered you, but I want to note that this is your “Aporean” style of creating themes for articles, i.e. take a discrete situation and unwind it, as Zeno did, but with the conclusions related to modern politics / economics they won’t bring Zeno glory to you - they will just laugh at you. Or worse, they’ll stop reading. Or even “worse” - they will stop reading and respecting.
  14. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 07: 34
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    So Mr. Marzhetsky again hit the sky with his finger ... In turn, I can advise Marzhetsky to renounce Russian citizenship and flee from Russia to Israel, shouting - Guard, save who can ...

    And you there too? request
    I can advise you not to give advice to other people. You will seem smarter.
    1. Sapsan136 Offline
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 07: 41
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      stop So don’t give us any advice to give up, and if you’ve already begun to compare the fleet of the Russian Federation and Turkey, so compare ALL the capabilities of the Russian Federation and Turkey, don’t drag the United States here ... You can threaten Turkey with North Korean nuclear warheads just as well .. USA is not Turkey, but in the event of an attack on the Russian Federation, the United States will definitely respond to the Strategic Missile Forces ...
    2. Dear sofa expert. 7 March 2020 12: 39
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      Rudeness to the author oh how not to face. Keep up the blow with dignity, since you are writing such a really weak-minded nonsense.
  15. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 07: 37
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    Quote: 123
    I agree with the comment, but let me ask one question ... Why in Israel?

    In turn, I can advise Marzhecki to renounce citizenship of the Russian Federation and flee from Russia to Israel, shouting - Guard, save who can ...

    I was just advised about the same thing the other day and in about the same words sad By the way, if I'm not mistaken, they also discussed Turkey. Is this a local tradition like this on a site? laughing

    This is the norm now. Hang labels on those with whom I disagree, and thereby increase the sense of personal greatness.
  16. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 07: 40
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    Quote: cmonman
    You also took one part (or one day) from the situation at sea around Syria and made a “deep” conclusion with a rhetorical question. The forum users above correctly answered you, but I want to note that this is your “Aporean” style of creating themes for articles, i.e. take a discrete situation and unwind it, as Zeno did, but with the conclusions related to modern politics / economics they won’t bring you the glory of Zeno - they will just laugh at you. Or worse, they’ll stop reading. Or even “worse” - they will stop reading and respecting.

    Note that the audience is divided polar in their ratings. I will not worry much if I lose the “respect” of the one who sends me to Israel for any reason wink
    As for the "literacy" of the answer "forum users", too, everything is not as clear as one "daughter of the Crimean officer" used to say. hi
  17. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 07: 43
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    No one bothers the Russian Federation to send a consolidated detachment of ships of the Baltic, Northern and Pacific fleets, including nuclear submarines, to the Mediterranean Sea, and reinforce the Black Sea Fleet with ships of the Caspian flotilla. Against this, Turkey does not have enough gunpowder. And missile attacks by supersonic X-22 Storm with Tu-22M3 and Daggers with MiG-31 also need to be considered ... So, Mr. Marzhetsky again hit the sky with his finger ... In turn, I can advise Marzhetski to renounce Russian citizenship and to flee from Russia to Israel, shouting - Guard, save yourself, who can ... And do not scare us with the US Navy !!! The United States is not Turkey, the military doctrine of the Russian Federation clearly states -

    In case of war against the Russian Federation of two or more countries, the Russian Federation uses nuclear weapons ...

    The Yankees know this and are unlikely to want to die under Russian nuclear warheads over Turkey ... Their own shirt is closer to the body ... Even the United States is afraid and does not risk fighting even against a nuclear power like North Korea

    Who told you that all these fleets will be allowed to reach the theater of operations?
    About nuclear weapons, do not tell. The maximum will be applied nuclear weapons. The United States conducted a retaliatory strike exercise two weeks ago if Russia used nuclear weapons. Grow up already, finally. hi
    1. Sapsan136 Offline
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 08: 45
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      Do you consider yourself very mature and smart? Wait for others to call you that! As for nuclear weapons, as I already wrote, the Russian Federation has a military doctrine, this is a document agreed upon with the President of the Russian Federation and the General Staff of the Russian Federation, and not with your fantasies and conjectures. Familiarize yourself with it before writing nonsense.
  18. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 07: 46
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    Quote: 123
    ... by the way, as well as the fact that for such analytics as you, it would also be nice to send for a year to scrape the deck somewhere on the Perekop.
    I don’t even want to discuss the last paragraph; suddenly there was an attack of nostalgia for the good old paper. The monitor, like a newspaper with a lousy little article, can not be crumpled and can not be thrown into the bin.

    laughing And laughter, and sin ...
  19. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 07: 50
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    Quote: Bakht
    Are the Turks able to arrange Tsushima? Yes, they can ...
    Will the Turks arrange Tsushima? No, they will not ...
    It is possible to count by the piece (over the heads, as the rams think). But in real life it doesn’t work out that way.

    Thanks for the adequate comment. I also don’t think that in real life the Turks will drown us. But you need to understand what they can, if they want. We must realistically evaluate our capabilities. And draw the right conclusions, and not threaten Istanbul with “Daggers” ...
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 6 March 2020 08: 47
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      They can’t. That is the point. You really took one fact. For example, the Japanese arranged a terrible wake in Pearl Harbor. How did it end? Surrender to Missouri. Turkey can arrange bloodletting in the Mediterranean. But everything will end with surrender, not even in Istanbul, but in Constantinople.
      I agree with those forum users who are considering the whole situation. More details ...
      The Black Sea becomes the inland sea of ​​the Russian Federation. If you close the straits, then NATO ships will fall into the Black Sea? And how will the Turks carry out cabotage? What will happen in Idlib with gangs? Russia does not need to bomb Turkey. Just give freedom of action to the military in Syria. Economic components will be even more catastrophic. No gas, no electricity, no tourists, no trade. Protests across the country. One fight in parliament shows that not everyone supports Erdogan.
      To attack Russia is to rake to the fullest in Syria. And lose your chair. Therefore, I believe that they can, but they will not.
      And finally. You saw what happened during the negotiations between Putin and Erdogan. Judging by the data that is published, Erdogan was bent. The only thing he achieved was joint patrolling. Now it remains to see whether Assad is sane or not. In my opinion, not really. If Erdogan needs to be placed in a ward for violent people, then Assad is next door, in a ward for the quiet.
  20. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 08: 01
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    stop So don’t give us any advice to give up, and if you’ve already begun to compare the fleet of the Russian Federation and Turkey, so compare ALL the capabilities of the Russian Federation and Turkey, don’t drag the United States here ... You can threaten Turkey with North Korean nuclear warheads just as well .. the USA is not Turkey, and in the event of an attack on the Russian Federation, the United States will definitely respond to the Strategic Missile Forces ...

    Firstly, I didn’t give any advice to anyone at all. Where did you get this? Highlight in the text.
    Secondly, I personally did not send you my message at all, since you are not a decision maker, and nothing depends on you and your comments.
    Thirdly, the United States I “drag in” precisely because the United States is Turkey’s NATO allies. Butting in Idlib through a proxy is one thing, but if you are going to beat “Daggers” around Istanbul, then be prepared to join the US war.
    Fourth, remove the pink glasses and forget about the Strategic Missile Forces. Nobody will actually apply MDBs at decision centers. The maximum is the use of nuclear weapons in a regional conflict. The United States prepared for this by deploying nuclear submarines on duty with low-power nuclear warheads. There will be no global nuclear war, except for the exchange of several tactical nuclear strikes at a local TDV. No one needs a nuclear apocalypse, so no one really can apply the strategic nuclear weapons, neither we nor the United States.
    1. Sapsan136 Offline
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 08: 48
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      With the same success, you could drag North Korea here, because the Yankees hate there and can deliver a nuclear strike at the USA at any time ... Once again, for very adults, read the military doctrine of the Russian Federation, this is a document signed by Putin and Shoigu, and leave your speculation for gatherings with seeds.
    2. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 6 March 2020 08: 55
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      Not the answer to me, but you are wrong. This is the pink dream of Americans. Manage charges of low and ultra low power. Dangerous fallacy. All this will lead to a full exchange of the entire nuclear triad. Limited nuclear war is not possible.
      Even in Soviet times, this was well said in American sources.

      In the USSR there will always be a couple of people who, without hesitation, press the button, without even remembering what Marx or Lenin said about this.

      Paraphrasing

      In Russia, there are a couple of people who, without hesitation, press a button without even remembering someone else’s children or accounts in the West.

      - You can, of course, verify this thesis in practice, but so far no one has yet seen it.
  21. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 08: 47
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    Yes, and adults, and well-educated, and smart enough. And so I was called by people who personally know me, unlike you.
    And about everything else, I already painted in detail. The conversation is over.
  22. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 08: 51
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    Quote: Bakht
    The Black Sea becomes the inland sea of ​​the Russian Federation. If you close the straits, then NATO ships will fall into the Black Sea? And how will the Turks carry out cabotage? What will happen in Idlib with gangs? Russia does not need to bomb Turkey. Just give freedom of action to the military in Syria.

    Kind of weird. But what if Turkey closes the straits for us, and Iran airspace? What will our group do there? Everything will be ok with the gangs, they have Turkey and supplies at their side. And why is it that the Black Sea will become our inland if Turkey closes the straits? I did not understand the logic, sorry. For me, this is a trap.
    1. Sapsan136 Offline
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 6 March 2020 08: 55
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      And with what fright, Iran, who is fighting in Syria against Turkey and hating the United States, will oppose the Russian Federation, well, are you our educated? Only show the facts work, not your fantasies! By the way, I wonder what year you graduated, in terms of your education, that you allow yourself to cast such opuses ?!
    2. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 6 March 2020 09: 29
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      And what does Iran have to do with it? Your assumptions are not supported by facts. The fact is that Iran has already threatened Turkey with full-scale retaliation.
      Turkish ships can sail in the Black Sea? Believe me, with the return of Crimea, the Black Sea de facto became the inland sea of ​​the Russian Federation. You wrote about frigates 11356. So they, in the bulk, are built under the Black Sea Fleet.
      Small and ultra low power charges are a dangerous misconception. Any small nuclear strike will entail a full-fledged response. So no one will use nuclear weapons in a local conflict.
      About Japan. By 1944, the fate of Japan was a foregone conclusion. What was the Kwantung army, that it was not. Japan lost the war.
      And the topic itself has lost its relevance. In my opinion, Erdogan has already lost and he needs to take care of his chair. In addition to Syria, he suffers losses in Libya. Blitzkrieg failed.
  23. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 08: 53
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    Quote: Bakht
    They can’t. That is the point. You really took one fact. For example, the Japanese arranged a terrible wake in Pearl Harbor. How did it end? Surrender to Missouri.

    Yes, it ended badly for Tokyo. Only at first there were many years of rubilov, and the USSR helped the defeat of the Kwantung Army. If anything, who will help, Belarus?
    PS Once again, I am not saying that there will be a war. I say that it can be, and it can end at sea not in our favor. I explained the reasons.
  24. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 08: 57
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    Quote: Bakht
    To paraphrase, "There are a couple of people in Russia who, without hesitation, press a button without even remembering someone else's children or accounts in the West."
    You can, of course, verify this thesis in practice, but so far those who wish are still not visible.

    Well, here's a quote from Brzezinski. By the way, does this couple have access to the red button, or is she sitting here on the forum?
    Concerning a small nuclear war: I think these are the realities of our time. In the days of the USSR, it would not have cost. In our time, it is it that is relevant. Our "elites" will not go to the mutual destruction of the strategic nuclear forces.
  25. Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 6 March 2020 09: 00
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    With the same success, you could drag North Korea here, because the Yankees hate there and can deliver a nuclear strike at the USA at any time ... Once again, for very adults, read the military doctrine of the Russian Federation, this is a document signed by Putin and Shoigu, and leave your speculation for gatherings with seeds.

    The conversation is over.
  26. Regis Offline
    Regis (Sergey Kopan) 6 March 2020 10: 31
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    Already got sofa couch strategists, ensigns of a whip phrase and agitators of the verb. If you treat any enemy in the same way as the tsarist admirals and generals treated the Japanese in 1905, then they will roll out and do not go to the doctor. Will arrange not only Tsushima. This is for journalists - lie more and write beautifully. And military affairs are organization and professionalism; if it is not, wait for defeat. The author, as always, read on the top of the Internet and issued the type of "analytics". Interestingly, he even served as an ordinary at least three months? Such crown phrases -

    .... then our connection in the Mediterranean is enough for 1 missile salvo, after which the frigates will have to somehow try to dodge enemy missiles and torpedoes ....

    Intelligent nonsense couch strategist
  27. Dedok Offline
    Dedok (Sergei) 6 March 2020 11: 19
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    The author, will you go to fight? Or will you throw slogans from around the corner ?:
    1. Dear sofa expert. 7 March 2020 12: 45
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      I would also like to see under what flag this corner of it is.
  28. Astronaut Offline
    Astronaut (San Sanych) 6 March 2020 11: 25
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    A universal naval firing complex on it is simpler than similar in Indian requirements. The launcher is capable of receiving only Caliber cruise missiles in an amount of not more than 8 pieces per frigate.

    The author would look at least on Wikipedia, which launcher is on the frigate of project 11356P. This is UVP ZS14, designed both for firing with Caliber and Onyx, and for firing promising Zircons.

    Why was the construction program of far more powerful frigates of the project 22350 disrupted?

    - because there is no engine.
    1. Dear sofa expert. 6 March 2020 14: 10
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      Because the future is not for them. And if something serious begins, then they will certainly not fight the frigates (and not even the AUGs).
      And no one will attack Russian frigates in the Mediterranean Sea. Neither the Turks, nor even the Americans. No matter how much they want it.
      So these ships will fulfill their task that they have been assigned. One can only guess what they will do there: to coordinate the work of air defense, or to put electronic interference, or to ensure the safety of transport ships, or just stupidly observe the methods of work of the "enemy". Or, or, or .. so seriously assessing the "analytical work" of the author of the article is kind of stupid)
  29. Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 6 March 2020 13: 24
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    And why is this, comparing the Turks and Russia, the author first speaks of an American squadron ???
    According to media reports, the Amerovskaya squadron is just "coming." Will it come?

    Here are the previous 2 squadrons, or even more (did not follow), which our true media regularly scared, didn’t get to Syria, got it somewhere (turned to China, probably ... and now they go there ...)

    About, in fact, the Turks only secondarily ...
    But in principle, it’s true ... what can a few passing small ships set up against the fleet of an entire country (like the 1st largest NATO-European force) off their shores?
    Yes, and they won’t, gas / oil cannot be produced by the Varshavyanki, and battles are fought over fields and lands ...
  30. Dear sofa expert. 6 March 2020 13: 34
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    You are Tsushima, and we are Hiroshima. An honest exchange can happen.
  31. Venus Tagirov Offline
    Venus Tagirov (Venus Tagirov) 6 March 2020 14: 27
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    Very weak group ..
  32. Vkd dvk Offline
    Vkd dvk (Victor) 6 March 2020 16: 50
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    Expert of the century before last. To write about the opposition of two ships against the flotilla of the Turks and the US carrier group. Think of this. Does this scribble have a stomach separate from the intestines? Since he writes this nonsense, therefore, he has no brains at all. It’s a kind of free walking of the brain, well, exactly like a nose of a certain subject walked around St. Petersburg. In fact, in addition to these unarmed little ships, we do not have the power of the state? No Iskanders, aviation, tactical nuclear weapons? And the Caspian flotilla will not be able to repeat, but with the Caliber, connected, if necessary, with other combat units?
    Without leaving the cash register, as they used to say in the past? You need to understand that if Erdogan came to Moscow to settle the problem, and not Putin to Istanbul, then ..... (Can you draw conclusions? Or will you even have to chew it?) Don't you know what the United States replied to Erdogan then when this scum shot down our bomber? Are there any fundamental changes, and pasha support is promised?
  33. NordUral Offline
    NordUral (Eugene) 6 March 2020 19: 32
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    I agree with each position.
  34. Petrol cutter Offline
    Petrol cutter (Vitali) 6 March 2020 22: 16
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    Of course not. And they understand that very well. Moreover. Tsushima may turn out the other way around. And they understand that very well.
  35. S.V.YU Offline
    S.V.YU 7 March 2020 10: 42
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    What is Tsushima? Time eskadrennyh battles A long time ago! Confirmation of this is the firing of "caliber" Syrian fighters from the Caspian Sea !!
  36. marciz Offline
    marciz (Stas) 7 March 2020 18: 19
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    After the times of Ushakov and Nakhimov, there were no glorious victories in the Russian Navy !!!! And now even more so, if Russia itself, the leadership of the Jews-Chabadniks exterminates the Russian peoples, what victory is there!? ((((