Russian gas bypasses EU restrictions and becomes even more expensive


The launch date for the first phase of the Turkish Stream pipeline has become known. President Recep Erdogan said the Russian gas pipeline will start operating on January 8 of next year. And, apparently, Gazprom did the right thing by choosing Ankara as a partner.


The Turkish Stream was Moscow’s response to overt sabotage on the South Stream project by official Sofia. 63 billion cubic meters of gas were supposed to be pumped through the Bulgarian Sea through the Bulgarian Black Sea through the now unrealized pipeline through the bottom of the Black Sea annually. Unfortunately, under the sheer pressure of Washington, the Bulgarian authorities dragged on its implementation, which led to a strong-willed decision by the Kremlin to refuse cooperation with Sofia. "South Stream" ordered a long life.

The Turkish Stream became its alternative, however, the total capacity of the project decently “withered out”: 31,5 billion cubic meters of gas versus 63 billion in the Bulgarian direction. Instead of the four planned pipelines, only two remained, one for Ankara's own needs, the second for European consumers. However, it seems that ingenious Turks will be a better option for Russia in this matter than our “brothers”.

Recall that the last serious problem that stands in the way of the older brother of the Turkish project, Nord Stream-2, is the rule of European law. New amendments to the Third Energy Package have recently been extended to offshore pipelines. Because of this, the completed subsea pipeline, which was supposed to supply 55 billion cubic meters of gas a year to Germany, risks being left half empty.

There was every reason to expect similar dirty tricks with regard to the Turkish Stream. However, Moscow and Ankara were able to find the optimal solution that would allow them to circumvent the norms of European law, but not the fact that European consumers would like it, who would have to pay more because of their bureaucrats. What did the partners come up with?

Under the new scheme, Russia will only be responsible for delivering gas to Turkey, where a local hub will be formed. After that, the “blue fuel” goes to the stock exchange, where it changes its owner. Further gas will go to Europe, but this will no longer be the problem of Gazprom, which will go beyond the limits of the Third Energy Package. Oil and gas expert Rustam Tankaev explains:

Ukrainians want gas prices to form through hubs. I predict that most of the Russian gas will be delivered to partners at exchange prices.


The nuance is that the price on the exchange can change several times a day, and it is usually much higher than the price that would be prescribed in the Gazprom contract for gas supply. It turns out that the dirty tricks of European officials of the Russian company will return to the EU itself by boomerang. Gas will cost more to European consumers. Was it worth it?
Photos used: https://oilcapital.ru/
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  1. Gadlei Offline
    Gadlei 1 December 2019 10: 45
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    In order to get around the SP-2 restriction, you need to make a hub in Russia, and then the gas will go through the pipe is no longer Gazprom.
    1. 123 Offline
      123 (123) 1 December 2019 13: 18
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      In order to get around the SP-2 restriction, you need to make a hub in Russia, and then the gas will go through the pipe is no longer Gazprom.

      Oh, these Anglicisms, applying them do not always accurately understand what is meant, the meaning is lost. In this case, it would be more appropriate to write a distribution node. Then no one will think that this is a pumping station and it would hardly be an idea to make it on our territory. After all, in order to build a site, you need several pipelines in different directions. Well, sometimes it’s useful to look at the map hi

      1. Nick Offline
        Nick (Nikolai) 1 December 2019 16: 37
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        Quote: 123
        Oh, these Anglicisms, applying them, do not always accurately understand what is meant, the meaning is lost. In this case, writing a distribution node would be more appropriate.

        Just save letters and time. Of course, to the detriment of the Great and the Mighty, but as a technical term, IMHO, is permissible. hi
        1. 123 Offline
          123 (123) 1 December 2019 17: 14
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          Just save letters and time. Of course, to the detriment of the Great and the Mighty, but as a technical term, IMHO, is permissible. hi

          I ask you to understand correctly, I have not tried to learn life. I just meant that sometimes the meaning of words is lost and not so obvious when you say a knot, you understand that this is a "ball from which the strings diverge", and if you look at the map, it becomes clear that pulling "strings" from our territory it makes no sense, for this it is necessary to pull the pipelines separately to each country. Common common sense. When we use borrowed words, often the meaning is not so obvious. hi But naturally, everything is within reason. In general, these were, so to speak, “thinking aloud,” and I don’t think that instead of the word “slide” you need to use the beautiful Russian word “transparencies”. laughing
          1. Nick Offline
            Nick (Nikolai) 2 December 2019 00: 07
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            Quote: 123
            Common common sense. When we use borrowed words, often the meaning is not so obvious. But naturally, everything is within reason. In general, these were, so to speak, “thinking aloud”

            I understood. Accepted.

            Quote: 123
            and I don’t think that instead of the word “slide” you need to use the beautiful Russian word “transparencies”.

            Well, about the Russianness of the word "transparency" I have some doubts. hi
            1. 123 Offline
              123 (123) 2 December 2019 15: 14
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              Well, about the Russianness of the word "transparency" I have some doubts.

              And very correct, it is not Russian.
          2. Pishenkov Offline
            Pishenkov (Alexey) 2 December 2019 16: 38
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            ... yes, the HUB recently for all, at least in the gas field, is apparently associated with the word HAP - something very profitable and located in the territory, which is also, of course, beneficial, where you can use this gas to weld something, that is HAPnut. (HAB - Germany - Germans feel good, HAB - Turkey - Turks in Navara, Bulgaria could become a HUB and missed - oh, how bad the Bulgarians are, they tear their hair literally wink ), and the technical details are already fading into the background, with the risk of being completely lost. wink
          3. MATRICA Offline
            MATRICA (Alex) 2 December 2019 19: 36
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            And here, by the way, is not a technical issue, but rather a legal one. Imagining a system with unchanged iron (within the framework of existing solutions), we will "build" a gas exchange (with a legal address in Mytishchi) in the perimeter of some gas distribution "node")) and there we will sell exchange gas. And after the “hub / hub” the gas of Hans or Franz’s property will flow through the same existing pipes)) In general, gas should be sold for a long time in Russia, and the problems with transportation in Ukraine should be left to the interested ...
            1. Pishenkov Offline
              Pishenkov (Alexey) 2 December 2019 23: 21
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              But then it will be necessary to transfer this Russian pipe to someone, at least by 50% ... and Gazprom will not go for it ... wink
      2. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 2 December 2019 00: 32
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        The word "hub" is used enough. And in the energy sector, and in computer systems. Of course, the "distribution center" accurately reflects the essence. But the second meaning is "center." Therefore, the main European hub is located in Austria, in Baumgarten. Just in the center of Europe. A German hub (most likely, it will be created) will distribute gas along the northern outskirts of Europe. Well, the mass of buns will fall to the Germans. Therefore, I was always sure that the Germans would bring this project to the end and would require even more gas. As for Baumgarten, without Ukrainian transit, its role will greatly weaken. Despite the favorable location. In addition to geography, the resource itself is also needed, which must be distributed.
        We have two components. The resource itself and location. Based on this, the hub in Russia is not beneficial to anyone. The place is not that.
    2. boriz Offline
      boriz (boriz) 1 December 2019 19: 02
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      And the pipe is not Gazprom. Nord Streem-2. Gazprom’s share, of course, is there, but Gazprom’s share is almost everywhere there. There are even in Germany two pure Gazprom gas storage facilities for 12 billion cubic meters. m of gas.
  2. kapitan92 Offline
    kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 1 December 2019 13: 06
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    The nuance is that on the exchange the price can change several times a day, and it, as a rule, is significantly higher than the price that would be prescribed in the Gazprom contract for the supply gas.

    Here the author is somewhat disingenuous or does not finish. The price on the exchange can really change several times during a trading session, but you need to consider the time of year. The end of spring, summer, the beginning of autumn, spot market prices are lower than prices on long-term contracts. Prices for long-term contracts are pegged by the formula to the price of oil. Gazprom was forced to lower contract prices to the Poles and pay fines - as an example. You can’t hide that long-term contracts are beneficial for Gazprom, but it is forced to adapt to the European market and legislation. hi
    1. T. Henks Offline
      T. Henks (Igor) 2 December 2019 11: 06
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      Well, here you have the exchange rates for oil at the moment: 62,4 futures in December and the starting one in January - 61,2. How much will we buy a barrel?
      1. kapitan92 Offline
        kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 12 December 2019 22: 13
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        Quote: T. Henks
        Well, here you have the exchange rates for oil at the moment: 62,4 futures in December and the starting one in January - 61,2. How much will we buy a barrel?

        And here you have exchange rates on 12.12
        Brent 64.49 64.52 +0.58 +0.91 22:13:01
        Light 59.44 59.47 +0.64 +1.09 22:12:34
  3. gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 1 December 2019 13: 22
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    Under the new scheme, Russia will only be responsible for delivering gas to Turkey, where a local hub will be formed. After that, the “blue fuel” goes to the stock exchange, where it changes its owner.

    - Well .., exactly what I personally talked about for a year ...
    - But the author did not say that the Turks will demand from Russia to build them LNG factories (or provide technology and components for these factories) and will begin to sell this “their LNG” with the whole of Europe in a big way (so Erdogan in addition will really annoy to the Americans) ... -Moreover, the Turks will constantly begin to demand from Russia a reduction in gas prices, all kinds of discounts and preferences ... -And this will very negatively affect the pricing of gas supplied through SP-2 ...
    - And what remains of Russia ???
    - And Russia remains to be responsible for the gas pipe (s) itself; keep it (them) in good condition and repair at its own expense (all their construction will pay off for Russia in a hundred years); and toss firewood on time .. that is, your gas to consumers ..; Yes, to constantly conduct litigation and pay the legal costs of these courts for certain violations ... - environmental, emergency, technical, etc. ... - Well, the European court and arbitration will find something to complain about ...
    - So what ??? -And who will have everything in chocolate ... and who will only see this "chocolate" from afar ???
    - That's how it all turns out great for Russia ... -What kind of Russia is done ...- I am ready to take off my last shirt so that others feel good ... !!!
    That's why Russia needs a gas pipe through Ukraine ...- a new long-term "gas agreement" between Russia and Ukraine with the approved conditions and responsibilities on both sides ... of which I personally constantly remind ... - At least some Russia will have a "fallback option" ...
    1. kapitan92 Offline
      kapitan92 (Vyacheslav) 1 December 2019 14: 04
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      Quote: gorenina91
      That is why Russia needs a gas pipe through Ukraine ...- a new long-term "gas agreement" between Russia and Ukraine with the approved conditions and obligations on both sides ... of which I personally constantly remind ... -Although some Russia will have a "fallback option" ...

      Yesterday, in the next branch, I already explained to you on the fingers that this is fiction of the Ukrainians.
      What are the approved conditions with the outskirts? Who to negotiate with? Forget it!
      “You” did everything so that no one had any affairs or projects with you!

      Quote: gorenina91
      - But the author did not say that the Turks will demand from Russia to build them LNG factories (or provide technology and accessories for these factories) and will begin to sell this "their LNG" with a wide leg in Europe

      Stop writing nonsense!
      Yes, Russian gas enters the exchange and changes its owner. So what???
      Let me remind you if you are not aware that the French Total has 25% in Russian LNG. By Russian and French courts he goes to France, to LNG storages, where he “mixes” with the same Norwegian or any other LNG, and is sold to anyone through the exchange.
      This is the worldwide practice of trading in hydrocarbons!

      Quote: gorenina91
      - So what ??? - And who will have everything in chocolate.

      Those who do not crap Russia !!! hi
      1. gorenina91 Offline
        gorenina91 (Irina) 1 December 2019 16: 25
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        -And who are you ??? -And have we already talked ???
        - And you are not from the group “O” .., excommunicated ... - Well, be that as it may ... - perhaps you should go there already ... the place that is already waiting for you ...
        - Well .. but for now I’ll explain to you too ..

        Yes, Russian gas enters the exchange and changes its owner. So what??? Let me remind you if you are not aware that the French Total has 25% in Russian LNG. By Russian and French courts, he goes to France, to the LNG storages, where he “mixes” with the same Norwegian or any other LNG and is sold to anyone through the exchange.
        This is the worldwide practice of trading in hydrocarbons!

        So what??? - And what??? - You forgot to continue what further LNG .. can be regasified, used anywhere ... etc ...
        - What are you talking about ??? “Do you really understand nothing ???” - And the fact that the Chinese are buying up our roundwood ... - in your opinion ... is beneficial for Russia ...
        - Okay...
        - You brought firewood for thousands of kilometers, from the taiga .., by steam locomotives, carts you hired, on reindeer and dog teams, on helicopters and somehow got to the Turkish border ... -Losses a whole sea ...- The game is not worth the candle ...
        You buy these firewood in bulk and require a discount ... you agree ... - do not bring the firewood back ...
        - And the buyer gives the wood for recycling ... - and they make airplanes, steamboats, crossbows, sweets and so on ... ... it all went into business ... -You also want to bring sweets made from your firewood to Turkey. ., but ... but ... but ... but you just click on your nose and ... and they say that they do not stick their nose where you should not ... -you, they say, the thing ...- only to drive firewood...
        - And you become very happy ... -you are the happiest carter of firewood in the world (having no analogues) ... Hahah ...
        - But you are a great fellow that you did not miss the ugly and mundane thing for Russia ... it's that the French Total has 25% in Russian LNG ... - And not only the French .. but also others .. .also ... and the Chinese ... it is better to keep silent about them ...
        In our Russia, where it is possible to heat furnaces with Russian oligarchic banknotes ... suddenly the French and others suddenly appear and become co-owners of our mines and deposits ... -Is this ??? - Well, for you it is a great joy .. but for me sadness and sadness ...
        - You just do not have to give obscene examples about the fact that many states around the world have investors and co-owners ... -This number will not work ... -In Russia there is only one real verdict ...: "What happened to the cart. ., then ... then ... now .. then forever became a stranger ... "...
        1. lev1759 Offline
          lev1759 (Eugene) 1 December 2019 20: 27
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          You buy these firewood in bulk and require a discount ... you agree ... - do not bring the firewood back ...

          A discount, of course, can be asked if it is prescribed in the contract, but only the one that suits me. Otherwise, I can "send the petitioners on an erotic journey ... And I don’t have to take the firewood back. It’s enough to close the valve ...
        2. Pishenkov Offline
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 2 December 2019 17: 20
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          - And you are not from the group “O” .., excommunicated ... - Well, be that as it may ... - perhaps you should go there already ... the place that is already waiting for you ...

          - with group “O” it’s, you know, a great idea, straight-forward! Well, there are really advanced ladies in the world like you! Just admiration and envy! I haven’t tried to do this with my wife - like, to criticize her, openly and even in the presence of strangers, but she didn’t get out of the picture so that she was silent at the same time ... Rather, the opposite. laughing And here is such happiness and for free ... laughing
    2. T. Henks Offline
      T. Henks (Igor) 2 December 2019 11: 15
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      A good spoon for dinner, in Russia they say. The cartoon was once about the great sick. Wicked is Europe. A pipeline, like a spoon in your mouth. The eternal problem of the seller. While the cost of production-pumping-fines is not equal to the sale, you will know how to lick. Deficiency will only save us.
      1. Ravshan Offline
        Ravshan (Jamsut) 2 December 2019 12: 05
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        Quote: T. Henks
        A good spoon for dinner, in Russia they say.

        Those. in Ukraine (Russia, today it is part of Ukraine).
        Or do they say that in Russia?
        Or both there and there?
    3. Pishenkov Offline
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 2 December 2019 16: 49
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      the author did not say that the Turks will demand from Russia to build LNG factories for them (or provide technology and components for these plants) and will begin to sell this “their LNG” with the whole of Europe in a big way (so Erdogan in addition will really annoy the Americans) ..

      - so what is wrong if they buy this gas for liquefaction anyway? And the construction of such plants, if something happens, for the Russian Federation a huge front of work for a lot of money and in the non-oil field ... We must be happy with such prospects. But you have a very biased attitude towards the Turks and Chinese. Just because they actively and quite honestly and openly observe their interests.
      But to the banderlogs that humiliate Russia, substitute, rob, regularly poured lies and dirt, you have a fraternal attitude ...
      Have

      fallback

      through Ukraine, this is how to take a spare tire with you on a long journey, in which a nail is already sticking out and it is blown off, but so far slowly, that is, like, if anything, you can drive somewhere, or maybe at any time deflate completely or explode ...
      Do I need such a spare tire ???
  4. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 1 December 2019 13: 51
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    Is Turkey an EU Member? Or are EU laws spreading all over the world, as are American ones?

    On September 28, 2017, the legal department of the EU Council prepared a conclusion that under the current version of the legislation on the “Third Energy Package” European Commission does not have authorityto introduce some rules or require negotiations on an object outside the EU
  5. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 1 December 2019 16: 28
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    Why Russia does not need a transit agreement with Ukraine ... This is all a consequence of the Stockholm arbitration. I have to explain on the fingers.
    GTS transportation capabilities are estimated at 110-120 billion cubic meters. That's why Ukraine wants an agreement on 60 billion cubic meters. That is, to the maximum. Then Russia will have to pump these same 10 billion dollars for 60 years. Regardless of whether someone in Europe needs this gas or not. And pay Ukraine.
    Stockholm Arbitration Affirms the Download or Pay Rule. That is, if Europe refuses to accept this gas (and gas contracts expire in 2-3-4 years), then Russia will also pay a fine to Ukraine for gas not pumped.
    So, the decision of the Stockholm arbitration killed the very idea of ​​transit. Ukraine will receive almost 3 billion greenery and lose transit. It must be crazy to pay for transit, and then also pay a fine.
    Naftogaz had a good time on arbitration decisions. But they did not think that there would be no more transit. Or it will be subject to the refusal of any fines and the refusal of the principle of "download or pay."
    Someone Irina drowns everything here for Russia to feed Ukraine for another 10 years. Do ukrov face muzzle does not crack?
    As they said in my village - "the one who laughs the last laughs well". I am 100% sure that a transit agreement is possible only on the terms of Russia. And no other way. Better yet, spot market prices. There prices go from stock quotes. And you can not even talk about any planning.
    1. boriz Offline
      boriz (boriz) 1 December 2019 19: 18
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      A transit agreement with 404 is not needed on any terms. There is a European procedure Open Season. The transit company prepares the conditions under which it sells part of the gas pipeline’s capacity for a year, and puts them up for auction. All. Within 2 months, everyone can participate in the auction. If there are no applicants, the auction shall be deemed invalid. In this procedure, even negotiations are excluded. There are no complaints against Gazprom: why should Miller buy what he does not like? In Europe, not a single transit country is as good as Ukraine. Miller, as a favor, agrees to extend the old contract on his, Miller’s terms, until Ukraine brings the transit company into line with European law. They were supposed to do this 5 years ago, but only at the end of last summer.
      And why do we need a long-term agreement with these wretched people if they run away to Stockholm again in a year or two, and the local inadequates play along with them?
      1. T. Henks Offline
        T. Henks (Igor) 2 December 2019 11: 21
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        Guys! Let's create a tote. And make bets. To conclude a contract with Khokhlov or not. I offer three options with two answers. For one year. For three years. For ten years. And in February, compare. A?
        1. boriz Offline
          boriz (boriz) 2 December 2019 12: 17
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          Forecasts about politics are an extremely thankless task. A lot of forces act at once and a lot depends on the actions of specific people holding very high posts. Like the same Zelensky. It is very difficult to predict his actions, because as he was, he remained an artist, and there are no sane advisers around him.
          From the point of view of common sense, the Russian Federation does not need a long agreement. From the word at all. The Open Season procedure completely suits us. The fact is that it was developed with the participation of our experts, who were invited by the European Commission.
          It’s just that Ukraine is not ready now, it has not implemented the EU legislation.
          They signed up to it at the beginning of 2015. And they didn’t do anything. And that is their fault.
          And the proposal of the Russian Federation to sign a long agreement (but on our terms, because this is their cant) is a kind of diplomatic move, like, we are going to meet them. The contract can be either without a specific period, until the new transit company of Ukraine is ready, or for some period. But on our terms (mutual withdrawal of claims, lack of a high mandatory level of transit, admission of the Russian Federation to the gas market of Ukraine on the basis of direct deliveries, without gaskets). Direct deliveries are not just concern for the "brotherly people", it is a severe blow to the money-makers sitting on the "reverse" schemes.
          At the same time, Kobolev and Vitrenko really work for transnational corporations and they are trying their best to disrupt the normal course of negotiations. But Zelensky does not even understand the situation, and there are no particular levers to influence her. After all, right after the election he wanted to clean Kobolev and spoke about this repeatedly. But then Kobolev flew to Washington and Zelensky somehow, forgot to remove him, and stopped talking on this subject. And Kobolev (along with Vitrenko) drives all nonsense, disorienting everyone around.
          So now even the main characters will not be able to say exactly what all this will turn out to be.
          Everyone has their own plans, everyone works according to them, but the development of the situation is very multivariate.
          And we just have to sit and watch the chess game, in which either 5 or 6 players sit at the board, and each has his own complete set of pieces, and the board is appropriate, on 5-6 sides.
    2. Pishenkov Offline
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 2 December 2019 16: 54
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      Well explained, Bakhtiyar, as usual - a plus!

      Naftogaz had a good time on arbitration decisions. But they did not think that there would be no more transit.

      - and this is not interesting to them. That is, not to a company or a country, but to specific people: if they would now win the “bonuses” from the billions won, a comfortable life will be enough for a lifetime, and then the grass does not grow ... not their problem.
  6. gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 2 December 2019 17: 46
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    - Obviously, the heroic site of the site decided to fight with Ukraine not for life, but to a victorious end ...- to the last piece of fat ... -Even those with fat are not allowed by faith ...
    - Once again, personally, I’m talking about the right moment to conclude a long-term “gas agreement” between Russia and Ukraine ...
    - By doing this, Russia provides itself (Gazprom) with at least some rear and a backup option ... -And to some extent, it will expand Ukraine to establish relations with Russia ... -Ukraine has nowhere to go nowhere ...- other options ...- how to become an ally of Russia ...
    - Yes, all this will be very unreliable for Russia and there will be a lot of disagreements and conflicts, but this will be the least evil that awaits Russia .., in dealing with Turkey, Zap. Europe ...- without any allies whatsoever ...
    - And this is only the beginning of a resumption of relations ... -Personally I could continue .., but for now this is enough ...
    1. boriz Offline
      boriz (boriz) 2 December 2019 18: 34
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      - Personally, I could continue ...

      But it was better not to start.
    2. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 2 December 2019 21: 59
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      And what kind of Muslim would refuse fat with a vodka? .... Yes, not a shit ...
    3. Pishenkov Offline
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 3 December 2019 00: 01
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      Personally, I’m talking about the right moment to conclude a long-term “gas agreement” between Russia and Ukraine ...

      wherein

      all this will be very unreliable for Russia and there will be a lot of disagreements and conflicts,

      - Question: And then Russia needs it, is such happiness? Especially long-term? And for all this you need to pay a couple of billion Euros in advance, such as fines ... or give gas for this amount, and if not, they will pull it out of transit themselves ... Super option, in kind! Give two, as they say ... -

      but it will be the least evil that awaits Russia .., in dealing with Turkey, Zap. Europe ...- without any allies whatsoever ...

      Is it that Ukraine is our ally? And then ...

      Ukraine today simply has nowhere to go ...- it has no other options ...- how to become an ally of Russia ...

      - That's just Ukraine itself, in the person of its leadership and Western curators, your opinion so far is somehow, to put it mildly, not shared. For them, the Russian Federation is an aggressor country. And they do not feel any friendly relations and feelings for Russia, most likely everything is just the opposite. Harm where and how they can, and whether there will still be ... And the end so far is not visible ... If only by force, but this, for now, you see, the Kremlin has not yet ripened ...

      And this is just the beginning of a renewed relationship

      - I'm afraid to imagine what will be, in this case, a continuation? Maybe invite Crimea to return to them? Or "at least" pass the Donbass?

      ... with such thoughts and at such a pace, you will soon all object to you actively, and the further you go, the more you will write them down in your wonderful “Group O”, and those without bald spots as well. laughing
      This is easier than reasonably answering ... But you, for the most part, have opinions, often interesting, sometimes even correct, laughing but they are based ... I don’t know what ... on certain feelings, maybe ... sympathy for Ukrainians and antipathy for Turks and Chinese, for example ... therefore it is difficult with real and objective arguments ... decided that it would help "ABOUT"...
      ... and so soon you will read only criticism addressed to you, without the right to answer, which you yourself deprived of yourself, voluntarily, with your "Group O" ... hi
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 08: 16
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        The most anecdotal in Irina’s proposal is that if you conclude an agreement with Ukraine, she will be imbued with love for Russia. 25 years they pumped gas, gave money, and love ended in Maidan. Dreams and reality are two different things.
        A Ukrainian cannot be a Russian brother. To become a Ukrainian, you need to kill a Russian in yourself. Individual people can be nice and kind. But the state of Ukraine at the moment is an enemy of the state of Russia.
        There is only one way of good neighborly relations. Recognition by Russians in Ukraine of fundamental rights and freedoms and non-aligned status of Ukraine. Only under such conditions can we talk about transit and love for Ukraine.
        PS The same applies to Belarus and any other neighboring state. The NATO bloc is directed against Russia and does not carry any other content. For this simple reason, any state aspiring to NATO automatically becomes an enemy of Russia. This is an axiom.
  7. Vkd dvk Offline
    Vkd dvk (Victor) 3 December 2019 00: 27
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    Quote: Gadlei
    In order to get around the SP-2 restriction, you need to make a hub in Russia, and then the gas will go through the pipe is no longer Gazprom.

    What country are you writing for?
  8. gorenina91 Offline
    gorenina91 (Irina) 3 December 2019 10: 27
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    - Laughs like ... - what's going on ...
    - Damn ...- everything was swamped and cemented “in the Oblonsky’s house” ... -and then they will start talking again ...- “we thought so”; "we said so" ... - The rooster also doesn’t crow ... how ... how ... how ... how they (all this group "O"), as always - will renounce their own " cons "and" smart judgments "... -Hahah ... - I understand that it is useless .., but once again I explain ... for ...
    - Group "O" can also listen ...
    - Figs with him in general ...- with all this gas and all these useless gas pipelines ... -Gazprom still lost ...- lost in all respects ... - And in the West and in the East ...
    - Today, Gazprom is no longer an economic precedent for Russia, but a political one ... -And in order to finally get some benefit from this useless outgoing Gazprom ...- Russia should try to use Gazprom as a political precedent ... with Ukraine. .. -Gazprom has already played such a role in establishing gas relations with Turkey ... -Although all this is terribly economically unprofitable (even unprofitable) for Russia, but ... but ... but ... but Turkey began a serious progressive break with Americans and the West. Europe ...- and Macron suddenly "danced on his hind legs" ...
    - That's exactly the same way Gazprom should play with Ukraine ...
    - Yes, all of these new gas long-term agreements with Ukraine are also economically disadvantageous for Russia ... but this may lay the foundation for other relations between Russia and Ukraine ... -What Russia may lose from these “new gas agreements” .. .-a mere trifle ... in comparison with the growing colossal abyss in relations between Russia and Ukraine, causing huge financial losses for Russia ... -This is all simple today and is used by the USA and Zap. Europe ...
    - Well, if Russia something began to grow together with foreign Turkey .., then it should work out with Ukraine too (with great difficulty, but it will work out) ...- now this is a very suitable moment ... -A if it starts to improve with Ukraine, the tremulous and troubled Belarus will also go nowhere from Russia ... - it will all throw itself into Russia’s arms ... Hahah ...
    1. Bakht Offline
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 15: 15
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      Comrade Ulyanov, who was Lenin, was shamelessly misinterpreted. Therefore, I quote a literal quote from his works

      NOT each cook is able to rule the state.
      1. Ravshan Offline
        Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 18: 27
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        Quote: Bakht
        Comrade Ulyanov, who was Lenin, was shamelessly misinterpreted. Therefore, I quote a literal quote from his works
        Not every cook is able to rule the state.

        You are, to say the least, a dreamer.
        1. Bakht Offline
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 18: 35
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          Quote

          We are not utopians. We know that any laborer and any cook are not capable of immediately taking control of the state. In this we agree with the Cadets, and with Breshkovskaya, and with Tsereteli.

          "Will the Bolsheviks Hold State Power" October 1917
          1. Ravshan Offline
            Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 19: 08
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            By the way, what about the Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars Ulyanov himself, nicknamed Lenin?
            He himself never and never worked. He lived on funds from the estate of his mother.
            Education had a "behind-the-ear", as they said in the USSR. Those. actually didn’t have it at all, but had “crusts”.
            How was he better than a cook and a laborer? Normal lumpen.
            And he entered the USSR administration.
            Dzhugashvili, a little later, did not even have a secondary education. And also not upset by this at all.
            True, these "leaders" of business have done a lot of scary recalls. But you won’t erase a word from a song.
            1. Bakht Offline
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 19: 16
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              You wrote that I am a "dreamer." I proved to you that you are illiterate. What does the rest have to do with it?
              By the way, people always said -

              ... better secondary consideration than higher education.
              1. Ravshan Offline
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 19: 55
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                Quote: Bakht
                You wrote that I am a "dreamer." I proved to you that you are illiterate.

                And I proved to you that you are a sharpie.
                You cut off the end of the phrase Ulyanov, why this phrase has acquired a completely different meaning.
                However, it sounded like this:

                We are not utopians. We know that any laborer and any cook are not capable of immediately taking control of the state. In this we agree with the Cadets, and with Breshkovskaya, and with Tsereteli. But we differ from these citizens in that we demand an immediate break with the prejudice that it is to run the state, to carry on the everyday, daily work of the administration, only rich or from rich families are taken officials. We demand that the training in public administration be given by class-conscious workers and soldiers, and that it be started immediately, that is, all workers, the whole poor, immediately begin to be involved in this training.

                And this means that any cook and laborer MAY run the state, but after some training in this "craft".
                Those. poorly educated Ulyanov believed that managing the state was a simple matter, a laborer and a cook would cope with it after a little training.
                1. Bakht Offline
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 20: 24
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                  Finally read .... That's right. Lenin wrote that everything must be learned. Let's go back to the education process. Stalin's library was approximately
                  5 books. At the inventory, after his death, about 000 books were found in pencil marks. Can anyone boast that he has read 1 books and made notes on them? Moreover, this is not only fiction, but serious research. For example, I can’t. Stalin was one of the most educated people of the era.
                  Lenin not only read a lot, but also wrote articles and books. We can say that the teaching did not benefit him (Personally, I consider Lenin a cannibal). But the man who left hundreds of articles was hardly uneducated. In the end, Pol Pot graduated from the University of Paris.
                  You have to learn, my dear, and not write any nonsense here. If the cook does not study, then he will NOT be able to manage the state.
                  PS By the way, is it really written there "after SMALL training"? Do not distort.
                  1. Ravshan Offline
                    Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 21: 06
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                    Quote: Bakht
                    Stalin's library comprised approximately 5 books.

                    Respected.
                    You poorly imagine the device of the USSR.
                    The Dzhugashvili library consisted of ALL books that were in the USSR. And also in his property were all the little people, who are usually called "Sov. Citizens."
                    In addition, the presence of a library in Dzhugashvili still does not mean anything.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    At the inventory, after his death, about 1 books were found in pencil marks.

                    I don’t ask you for a link, because it simply cannot be. This is “information” from the Soviet epic. About the great and mighty Dzhugashvili.
                    Which was actually a cruel and uneducated felt boot.
                    But the cunning was immeasurable, yes.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    Can anyone boast that he has read 1000 books and made notes on them?

                    I can boast a lot more.
                    I am not kidding.
                    However, I can’t say that it was somehow very productive.
                    And I'm not joking either. I don’t remember very much already - the volume of human memory is finite.
                    Yes, and I can also boast of an extensive personal library.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    Lenin not only read a lot, but also wrote articles and books.

                    I read his articles (I had to). Ravings of a madman.
                    Not every writer:
                    1. Clever.
                    2. The writer.
                    This is perfectly visible in our time on the same runet.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    Personally, I consider Lenin a cannibal).

                    Correctly consider. Do not forget to add Dzhugashvili to it.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    But the man who left hundreds of articles was hardly uneducated.

                    Easily.
                    I know doctors of sciences and professors (I know very closely) who are just natural boots.
                    However, they print and even have some students there. I'm really sorry for these students.
                    But, mafia, you know.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    You have to learn, my dear, and not write any nonsense here.

                    Respected.
                    The fact that you do not understand sopromat (conditionally) does not mean that it is not.
                    I have no habit of writing nonsense. And what I write and it seems to you nonsense, it's just that you have not yet grown up to it. That's all.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    If the cook does not study, then he will NOT be able to manage the state.

                    A cook will not be able to rule the state, even if she wears out on this subject. Because she has a cook mentality. Steal and wash off, figuratively speaking. The way of thinking is different.
                    Does this remind you of anything?
                    That is why the European model of development of the state and society is very successful. But Latin American, for example, is not at all.

                    Quote: Bakht
                    By the way, is it really written there "after a LITTLE training"? Do not distort.

                    A cook trained for a sufficiently long time, over time, gradually ceases to be a cook (if she has something in her head).
                    1. Bakht Offline
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 21: 32
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                      I don’t ask you for a link, because it simply cannot be.

                      Your aplomb, as well as your inability to use sources, is amazing.

                      http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/#showunit&id=4454

                      He wrote from memory, and therefore made a mistake. 392 books with his personal notes.
                      Everything else is not even worth a discussion. I already wrote somehow that you are not interested. I would like to learn something new and interesting. But you only repeat the patterns of the yellow press. Believe me - it's boring.
                      1. Ravshan Offline
                        Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 22: 23
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                        Quote: Bakht
                        But you only repeat the patterns of the yellow press. Believe me - it's boring

                        Learn.
                        Then, perhaps, you can understand things not only simple, but also more complicated.
                        And then you will not be bored.
  9. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 20: 36
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    Gas prices at European hubs

    1. Ravshan Offline
      Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 21: 07
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      Quote: Bakht
      Gas prices at European hubs

      So what?
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 21: 34
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        Nothing. Just the price of gas on December 2, 2019 is slightly more than $ 160 per thousand cubic meters. But this is on the hub. Transportation is also worth something. The same can be found in Southeast Asia.
        1. Ravshan Offline
          Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 22: 21
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          Quote: Bakht
          Just the price of gas on December 2, 2019. A little more than $ 160 per thousand cubic meters. But this is on the hub.

          Actually, there, as I understand it, the price is in British thermal units.
          1. Bakht Offline
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 22: 24
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            Misunderstood. But for some reason I’m not surprised.
  10. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 20: 45
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    Picture for thought.


    Is transit worth saving while reducing Europe’s gas demand. Especially for 10 years?
    1. Ravshan Offline
      Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 21: 09
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      Quote: Bakht
      Is transit worth saving while reducing Europe’s gas demand. Moreover, for 10 years?

      And who will Gazprom ask?
      Hands unscrew completely in an adult way.
      1. Bakht Offline
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 21: 35
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        Already wrote once -

        Blessed is he who believes.

        The main conclusion is that it makes no sense to conclude a transit agreement. What Gazprom is obliged to supply, it will supply. Ukraine in flight.
        1. Ravshan Offline
          Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 21: 42
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          Quote: Bakht
          What Gazprom is obliged to supply, it will supply.

          Will it bring in your pocket?

          Quote: Bakht
          Ukraine in flight

          I do not think.
  11. Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 3 December 2019 21: 00
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    Oxford University Opinion

    Whether or not agreement is reached by December 31, there is no doubt that the large-scale transit of Russian gas via Ukraine to Europe is coming to an end. It is very likely that by 2022 both Nord Stream 2 and Turkish Stream will be operating at full capacity. There will be some requirement for residual transit via Ukraine, depending mainly on the level of demand for Russian pipeline gas in Europe, and seasonal factors.

    The operating capacity of the Ukrainian pipeline system will have to be reduced; the southern Ukrainian pipeline corridor that traverses Moldova and meets the Trans Balkan line will best be operated in reverse, a fact recognized in Naftogaz's investment plans. Ukrainian energy policy would benefit from a prompt recognition that the transit business needs to be downsized, and efforts focused on diversifying away from imported gas to domestic energy sources.

    From a Russian policy standpoint, the incentive for reaching an agreement for post-2020 transit in good order is a matter not only of ensuring Gazprom's ability to compete most effectively in the European market, but also, more broadly, of ensuring the place of gas in the European energy mix in the coming years. A supply interruption could serve as a significant blow to its acceptance.

    Regardless of whether an agreement is reached by December 31, there is no doubt that the large-scale transit of Russian gas through Ukraine to Europe is coming to an end. It is very likely that by 2022 both Nord Stream-2 and Turkish Stream will operate at full capacity. The need for residual transit through Ukraine will be determined mainly by the level of demand for Russian pipeline gas in Europe and seasonal factors.

    The operational capabilities of the Ukrainian pipeline system should be reduced; The southern Ukrainian pipeline corridor crossing Moldova and meeting the Trans-Balkan line will best be operated in the opposite direction, which is recognized in Naftogaz’s investment plans. A Ukrainian energy policy would benefit from a quick recognition that the transit business needs to be cut back and efforts to diversify from gas imports to domestic energy sources.

    The third paragraph deals with the risks of Gazprom. But here the Anglo-Saxons are not quite right, because Gazprom is going to fully fulfill its obligations. Whether it can or not, we'll see in the near future.

    https://www.europeangashub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Russia-Ukraine-transit-talks-the-risks-to-gas-in-Europe.pdf