Why is there no move to the West for the MS-21?


Currently, due to serious problems with the Boeing 737 MAX, the American corporation is undergoing a certain redistribution of the market. The competitor quickly takes the European concern Airbus. Do domestic Superjet and MS-21 have a chance to bite off their piece?


This possibility was announced to President Putin by the head of the state corporation Rostec Chemezov:

Currently, a favorable situation is developing for the export of the MS-21 aircraft and the modernized RRJ-Sukhoi (SSJ 100) due to the high concern in the world about the safe operation of their main competitor, the Boeing 737 MAX.


A lot has already been said about the problems of the Superjet. The regional liner, which cost an expensive budget, is not yet a real competitor to foreign manufacturers. It needs modernization, the creation of a shorter and longer version, the replacement of imported components with domestic ones. It is even proposed to replace not very successful engines of French-Russian production. The prospects for the MS-21 are better. The import share in it is lower than in the "Superjet", initially it was envisaged the possibility of installing a choice of American or Russian aircraft engines.

But no matter how technically good these aircraft eventually become, they need the appropriate certificates to sell on the international market. And here our bureaucrats neatly cut the wings of our liners.

Previously, aircraft certification and crash investigation were carried out by the International Aviation Committee (IAC). This is the executive body of 11 countries belonging to the CIS, created in 1991. But in 2015, everything changed.

IAC revoked certificates from Boeing 737 (Classic and NG) airliners in Russia due to claims to their safety before eliminating violations. This jeopardized the business of Aeroflot, its daughter Pobeda, S7 and UTair. As the Boeing 737 MAX disasters showed, there is no smoke without fire. However, "the empire struck back." IAC was accused of lobbying the interests of its leader, which at that time was Tatyana Anodina. She herself and her son Alexei Pleshakov were shareholders of Transaero, which was in a pre-bankrupt state.

Perhaps there really was a conflict of interest, but the method for resolving it was reminiscent of treating a sick finger by cutting off the head. In December 2015, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev signed a decree according to which the authority to certify aircraft was withdrawn from the IAC and redistributed between several departments. Thus, a bureaucratic “atomic bomb” was laid under the certification of new liners.

It was assumed that the procedure will be created by the Aviation Register of the Russian Federation. The new body has signed agreements with all major countries, but they are not valid without coordination of procedures governing technical work. There are still no such approvals with US and EU regulators. A workable certification system for aircraft, which gives access to the most important markets, has not been created over the past years. Well-known aviation expert Oleg Smirnov explains:

The decision was made privately - and now there are difficulties: the certification of some elements of the SSJ 100, as well as some elements of the MC-21, which also began to certify the IAC, was suspended.


What to do, how to get out of the bureaucratic trap?

There are at least two exits. The first was voiced in his letter by the head of Rostec: he asked the president to return to IAC the certification function of liners. Then, logically, the accident investigation function must be transferred to the Federal Air Transport Agency. The second option is to leave everything as it is, but to strengthen the Federal Air Transport Agency with personnel from the IAC in order to speed up the certification process. However, it is obvious that this will take longer.
Used photos: http://www.irkut.com/
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  1. kriten Offline
    kriten (Vladimir) 28 November 2019 13: 56
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    When the country is ruled by traitors to the interests of the country, fighting only for access to plundered grandmas. And almost no one has brains there. They try not to take people with brains there - they are dangerous. And here are the grabbers - they are completely devoted ....
    1. tom44 Offline
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 16: 14
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      Quote: kriten
      When a country is ruled by traitors to a country's interests

      Lord, what nonsense are you talking about. Head hit, or what?

      Quote: kriten
      And almost no one has brains there.

      Yes? And why are they so brainless (in your expert opinion), sitting on golden toilets, and you, so brainy, are sitting in a cold birdhouse?
      This does not happen in real life. Only in Soviet carols.
      1. 321 Offline
        321 (321) 28 November 2019 17: 52
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        ... sitting on golden toilets, and you in a cold birdhouse?

        - about the birdhouse you write from your own experience?) it happens, do not worry so)))
      2. The comment was deleted.
  2. Sapsan136 Offline
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 November 2019 14: 16
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    Russia now needs to think about how to create and start building domestic planes that could completely replace foreign cars, at least on the domestic market of the Russian Federation, at least on domestic airlines ... This will already give jobs in the Russian Federation and improve the economic situation in the Russian Federation, After all, domestic factories and workers will pay taxes in the Russian Federation, and when buying foreign cars, we stimulate the economy of foreign countries, create jobs there, and not at home ... An airplane that will show itself well on flights to the Russian Federation will be easier to sell abroad. .. And yet, this sa the flight should be built on the basis of Russian components, and not consist of half foreign parts, like the Superjet ... Then we can sell our aircraft to anyone, without regard to the opinions of foreign suppliers and their governments ...
    1. tom44 Offline
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 16: 20
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      Quote: Sapsan136
      Russia now needs to think about how to create and start building domestic planes that could completely replace foreign cars, at least on the domestic market of the Russian Federation, at least on domestic airlines ...

      You can think of it. But no more than that. Because:
      - there is no one to construct such aircraft (in the USSR there never was a full-fledged civil aircraft industry).
      - there is no one to build such aircraft (there is no qualified labor force, but an airplane is not a one-cart cart).
      - there is nothing to complete such aircraft (you need to buy components abroad).

      Quote: Sapsan136
      and buying foreign cars, we stimulate the economy of foreign countries, create jobs there, and not at home ...

      And first let's learn how to do scooters.
      Then, bicycles.
      Then, mopeds.
      Then, motorcycles. Etc.
      Why start with planes right away?

      Quote: Sapsan136
      A plane that will show itself well on flights to the Russian Federation will be easier to sell abroad ...

      The superjet performed well. But the world did not have his technical support. Therefore, they began to return it.
      Without support, nothing in the world can be sold.

      Quote: Sapsan136
      And yet, this aircraft should be built on the basis of Russian components, and not consist of half foreign parts, like the Superjet ...

      And if these components, as is the case with the Superjet, are simply not there? What then?
      1. Sapsan136 Offline
        Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 November 2019 20: 03
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        And let’s change the manual, which supposedly has nothing, and most importantly, there is no desire to do anything, because you don’t need to stupidly drive oil beyond the hillock, any cleaning lady can handle it ... Yes, there are accessories, but there is production of those that don’t, you can fix it by copying foreign developments, or at least buy a turnkey plant in China and put it somewhere in Voronezh, or Kazan, where there are no problems with educated people and everything will be OK ... Let's talk about what we need in order to restore order in the country, and not whine about why the ruler The people don’t want to do this ... I don’t want to, then change the government ... Russia is big, we will find those who want to do and will do ... At the beginning of the 20th century, Russia was in a worse position than today, and tanks did everything, and planes ... And planes in the USSR were not the worst ... Back in the 60s, Soviet pilots were able to land an emergency Tu-124 on the Neva and it was a regular combat crew ... Only recently, US pilots were able to repeat it it was a test pilot, who joined the civilian airline, and not a combat pilot ... The Tu-124 had a margin of safety, and from all attempts to land Western planes on water ended in death ... Because in pursuit of profit, Western planes were extremely lightweight, depriving the margin of safety, which we see on the example of the latest Boeing model, which is funny ... Yes, it eats less fuel , but at what cost ... It was so easily facilitated that it collapses stupidly, unable to withstand the loads during flight ... cracks on the main load-bearing structures of the airframe, because they are too fragile ... but light ... only who makes it easier ... those who died on these coffins and their relatives but do not feel better ...
        1. tom44 Offline
          tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 20: 47
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          Quote: Sapsan136
          And let's change the manual

          It will not lead to anything.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          any cleaning lady can handle this ...

          This nonsense we have already passed. Only then it was a cook. It cost a lot to the country.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          Yes, there are components, and the production of those that are not, can be adjusted by copying foreign developments

          1. There are no components.
          2. Industrial piracy is being prosecuted worldwide.
          In addition, not everything can be copied without a production technology.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          buy a turnkey factory in China

          And where in China will advanced technology come from?

          Quote: Sapsan136
          in Voronezh, or Kazan, where there are no problems with educated people

          Where did these educated people come from in Kazan and Voronezh? Are you sure these are they?

          Quote: Sapsan136
          I don’t feel like changing the government ... Russia is big, we will find those who want to do and will do ...

          I sometimes think, where do you come from so uneducated and illiterate? After all, you absolutely do not understand the essence of the processes taking place in Russia (and in the world). And you just have to bark at everything, like those Pugs.
          No, well, the fact that illiteracy, lack of education (coupled with the greatest conceit), as well as the wildest envy, are branded chips, this is understandable. But where do you come from in such quantities, here's the question? Is this some kind of genetic engineering? It is clear that in the USSR it was impossible to get a normal education. But after all, now all the possibilities are provided, both for obtaining education and for self-education.
          But no. This does not work. Probably not, than to absorb this formation. There is no gray matter.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          At the beginning of the 20th century, Russia was in a worse position than today

          Nothing like this. The Russian Empire was, of course, not among the world leaders. But among the leaders, she rubbed herself and lagged behind them not so radically as Russia now lags behind.
          This is the backlog, this is the legacy (and curse) of the USSR.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          and they did everything, and tanks, and planes ..

          NEVER the USSR independently made a single tank and not a single aircraft. After the war, the Germans did something for the USSR. After that, their legacy lurked in the USSR one way or another. And continues to procrastinate to this day.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          And the planes in the USSR were not the worst ...

          The USSR NEVER had normal engines (they are not to this day). And without a normal motor, even a motorcycle is not a motorcycle. What can we say about airplanes.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          Back in the 60s, Soviet pilots were able to land an emergency Tu-124 on the Neva and it was an ordinary combat crew ...

          Why did you write this?

          Quote: Sapsan136
          Only recently, US pilots were able to repeat this, and then it was a test pilot who switched to serve in a civilian airline, and not a combat pilot ...

          Do not grind nonsense. In the United States, a passenger plane was planted in Alaska for a long time.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          The safety margin of the Tu-124 was

          The "safety margin" of the Tu-124 in engineering is called the "poorly calculated design." And this is not surprising, the sopromat in the USSR knew very poorly.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          but all attempts to land Western planes on water ended in death ...

          Alaska, DC-7, 1962, none of the 102 passengers died.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          which we see in the example of the latest Boeing model, which was put on a joke ..

          In fact, there are problems in the computer, and not in the design.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          It was so easily facilitated that it collapses stupidly, unable to withstand the loads during flight ... cracks on the main load-bearing structures of the airframe, because they are too fragile ... but light ... only who is better off ...

          Absolute nonsense. You are absolutely not up to date.

          Quote: Sapsan136
          Those who died on these coffins and their relatives certainly did not feel better ...

          From your delirium? No, it’s not easier.
          1. Sapsan136 Offline
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 28 November 2019 21: 44
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            Yes, it will lead ... Because a flock of sheep headed by a lion is lions .. and a pride of lions led by a sheep is rams ... Not more expensive than Gorbachev and Chubais, who have millions in their arms who died due to their fascist reforms ... the USSR built aircraft without technologies that you think are advanced and Soviet computers were no worse than American classmates, if you aren’t in the know, I still found them ... But the United States made a flying coffin with its technologies and is no longer alone in them stories ... By the way, China regularly copies everything, come on, punish the whale ytsov, just do not make a hernia, trying to do it ... Cracks in the supporting structures due to problems with the computer? Do not write nonsense ... It’s you who don’t know, goodbye and continue to grovel in front of the Yankees, only it would be better for people like you to go to the USA for permanent residence and not to get under the feet of those who want to make Russia something decent, but not a raw materials appendage, as you did. And if, in your opinion, the Russian people are stupid and unable to create anything, look for another people in the USA ...
            1. tom44 Offline
              tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 22: 32
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              Quote: Sapsan136
              Because a flock of rams led by a lion - lions

              Rams, these are rams. In addition, there is nowhere among the rams to take a lion. Lions are found among lions.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              in the hands of which the dead are hanging by the millions who died due to their fascist reforms ..

              Maybe stop lying?

              Quote: Sapsan136
              USSR built aircraft without technologies that you think are advanced

              They flew as they were designed and built.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              Soviet computers were no worse than American classmates, if you do not know, I still found them ...

              So do I. The Soviet "crafts of masturbation" had nothing to do with American computers.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              But the United States made flying coffin with its technologies and is not the only one in their history ...

              Give up. The Boeing case is not the norm.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              By the way, China regularly copies everything

              For instance? Why scratch your tongue in vain, give an example.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              go punish the Chinese

              Already punished. The Americans. In China, the economy now has a natural ass. At the end of 2019, China will surely move to 3rd place in the world, skipping Japan ahead.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              Cracks in load-bearing structures due to computer problems?

              Cracks are invented by you. And "Runet Media".

              Quote: Sapsan136
              and not to get under the feet of those who want to make Russia something decent, and not a raw materials appendage

              Yeah. Once already, people like you have done. For many centuries, our grandchildren will have to disentangle your porridge.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              not the raw materials appendage you made her

              In fact, this was what the Communists did in Soviet times.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              if in your opinion the Russian people are stupid and not able to create anything

              There are no Russian people in wildlife. It happens the Russian nation.
              But the Soviet people happen.
              But you don’t understand who the representatives of the Russian nation are and who are the representatives of the Soviet nation. Therefore, you are constantly trying to pass the Soviet for Russian. And this is absolutely not so.
              By the way, the Russian people (Russians) also happen. And this is also not Russian.
              Learn at least basic things, for starters.
              1. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 28 November 2019 22: 56
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                As for the lies - this is first to you - the statements of a certain Chubais, if you need to - you will find yourself ...
                And whoever would write about “raking” something, you personally won’t do anything about it, well, you just don’t know how and everything - to understand this, it’s enough for your theories bully - about slave owners, about the Russian people and the like just pay attention))))) - well, the fact that this is complete dregs does not bother you), however, these are your problems ...
                PS As for studying at least elementary - the idea is not bad, but you need to start with yourself ...
                1. Ravshan Offline
                  Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 13: 26
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                  Quote: 321
                  ... enough for your theories of bully - about slaveholders, about the Russian people and the like, just pay attention

                  Learn. Study long and tedious.
                  Maybe then you’ll understand something. And maybe it is useless for you.
                  1. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 30 November 2019 13: 32
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                    Well, it’s your opinion that interests me the most, "... what do you call now? ..."))))
                    What you are trying to shove here, without rebuttal or just comments, will not work, if you still do not understand this - these are your problems)))
                    And to teach you is not enough you know, so it won’t work out)
                    1. Ravshan Offline
                      Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 14: 05
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                      Quote: 321
                      and to teach you to me is not enough you know, so it won’t work out)

                      Yes, not all individuals are trained. Some training is useless.
                      But do not be discouraged. Unskilled labor is also needed.
                      1. 321 Offline
                        321 (321) 30 November 2019 14: 45
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                        How self-critical you are in this comment, why would it be?
                        And first of all, pay attention to your work, to me your attempts at awkward teachings are somehow a little light, is everything all right with my work, are you interested in the details? What for? Anyway, you won’t be able to replace me - you need to study for a long time, but this is not the main thing - you need a reputation, and you don’t have it, and it’s not soon at best - you’ll write monographs from the heels, then maybe, but not earlier) )))
                      2. Ravshan Offline
                        Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 15: 50
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                        Quote: 321
                        You still can’t replace me - you need to study for a long time, but this is not even the main thing - you need a reputation.

                        I'm scared for your place of work.
                      3. 321 Offline
                        321 (321) 3 December 2019 16: 59
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                        Quote: Ravshan
                        ... I'm scared for your place of work.

                        It's your problems. bully
                        And, a replacement :), did you even pile a monograph at least one? hi
          2. Sapsan136 Offline
            Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 29 November 2019 00: 06
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            No ... Here, the Crimean War and Russian-Japanese Russia lost because it was in power (ram), and Sweden and the Ottoman Empire were defeated (lions) in power ... Well, you’re a fan of the USA, and I no, it doesn’t mean that I am lying ... They flied normally, the Il-18s fly today, although they are a hundred years old at lunch and the Il-38s built on their basis fly, and they are better than the American counterparts Electra and Orion, respectively , they have no shortcomings of American models ... General yes, but they worked no worse ... That's no worse Electronics-586 than IBM-286 - IBM-586. The only drawback of Soviet computers was the fact that almost every research institute in the USSR created a computer for its original program, and not for some unified one ... But these are problems of leadership efficiency and the lack of unified software, not computers ... For example , China copied the Krotal air defense system (France), the S-300 air defense system (USSR - RF), the 76 mm cannon Oto Melara (Italy), the Ak (USSR-RF), Su-27 (USSR - RF), An-12 (USSR) , Aegis (USA) ... How successful these copies are, another question, but they exist and work ... Well, Japan does not live long in this place, since it depends entirely on the set , including from the same China of rare-earth elements and other things ... the USA, the war with China is also not good, and it is still unknown who is who ... In the USA there’s no tank production now, from the word at all ... Well, of course, that's all they lie all around, except you and the Yankees, who have been caught lying hundreds of times ... What you did with the hands of Gorbachev and Yeltsin is a long time to disentangle, not to mention how people like (like) the people ... series buried mother-in-law, tore three button accordions ... The Communists left you production, and not always bad, and you, instead of modernizing it b, they destroyed it, turning the factory workshops into ruins, or warehouses ... You and Sobchak definitely do not belong to the representatives of the Russian nation, so Makarevichs do not need to be embarrassed that you are Russian ... you were not standing next to them and Russia is of no use to you ... only harm ... People like you, in 1905, gave a whooper (Prince of Tsushima) and threw rotten tomatoes ...
            1. Ravshan Offline
              Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 13: 50
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              Quote: Sapsan136
              Here the Crimean War and Russian-Japanese Russia lost because it was in power (ram), and Sweden and the Ottoman Empire were defeated (lions) in power ...

              In fact, the armies of countries are not destroyed by animals in power.
              And not even generals.
              War is a competition of economies. The rear is fighting with the hands of soldiers to make it clearer.
              But the motivation of the soldiers, of course, also cannot be discounted.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              IL-18s fly today, although they are a hundred years old at lunchtime and IL-38s built on their base fly, and they ...

              The trouble is that all kinds of junk (including the Tu-160) are still flying.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              ... but they worked no worse ... That's no worse than Electronics-586 than IBM-286 - IBM-586.

              Of course of course. A singe Chinese AK is no worse than the Soviet one. Only costs an order of magnitude cheaper.
              We have heard these stories more than once. About Rolexes from Asia.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              For example, China copied the Krotal air defense system (France), the S-300 air defense system (USSR-RF), the Oto Melara (Italy), 76 mm cannon (Ak-USSR), the Su-27 (USSR-RF), the An-12 (USSR) ), Aegis (USA) ... How successful these copies are is another question, but they exist and work ...

              The question is not whether they work or not. The question is HOW do they work.
              Just buzz, consuming energy, or perform their functions in full.
              But such, the latter, among this "product" you will not find.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              Well, Japan does not live long in this place, since it depends entirely on supplies, including rare earths from China, and so on ...

              And so what? Doesn’t want to sell China (although why would it suddenly?), They will buy it in another place.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              The US war with China is also not good, and it remains to be seen who is ...

              The Chinese economy at the end of 2018 collapsed by almost a quarter.
              The US economy in the same year grew by almost 10%.
              And this despite the fact that the total volume of the global economy remained at the same level (stagnation in the world).
              And this means that the United States simply grew by 10% purely due to China.
              You can’t even imagine what the US economy is, and what the Chinese economy is. Economically, China versus the United States is a pot-bellied little thing. Although this trifle is today the 2nd economy of the world.
              And all because the "world economy", this is the US economy. By a third in the most direct way, and by 2/3, indirectly.
              Therefore, I am amused by the seers who claim that "the dollar will collapse soon." This simply cannot be, not in our life.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              In the United States, even there is no production of tanks now, from the word completely ...

              Tanks, like cavalry at the time, are a relict type of armament. For Aboriginal people.
              The leading countries of the world have other weapons in priority.
              Therefore, there are all kinds of white eagles (and even black sheep), this pampering is empty.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              Well, of course, everyone around lies, except you and the Yankees

              No, why, it is full of those who say the right things.
              But some do not want to listen to them, they have their own oracles. Which they are told nice things about the imminent collapse of the United States and other verbal crap.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              I'm not talking about how people like you (loves) ...

              The people, this is the last one that is ever asked about something.
              Things are different with the nation.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              What you did with the hands of Gorbachev and Yeltsin ...

              I personally did nothing for them in 1991 and was a Sov. Citizen even worse than yours.
              But I tend to receive and assimilate information, including its analysis. Unlike many others.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              The Communists left you production, and not always bad

              The Bolshevik Communists destroyed industrial production in Russia.
              If in 1913 Russia produced products, albeit of a inferior, but European level, then in 1991 the USSR totally produced rubbish to nobody (all "industrial enterprises" simply collapsed after the market opened), except for raw materials. Those. it was simply a pure raw materials appendage of the West. Unlike Russia in 1913

              Quote: Sapsan136
              and you, instead of modernizing it, destroyed it, turning the factory workshops into ruins, or warehouses ...

              They were no longer good for anything.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              You and Sobchak are definitely not members of the Russian nation.

              I don’t know about Sobchak, but I’m just a representative of just the Russian nation.

              Quote: Sapsan136
              ... and Russia is of no use to you ... only harm ...

              You again confuse concepts and subjectivity. The USSR is of no use to the Russians, only harm. Russia from owls ...... etc.
              1. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 30 November 2019 14: 35
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                Quote: Ravshan
                ... But I tend to receive and assimilate information, including its analysis. Unlike many others ...

                Who deceived you so cruelly?)

                Quote: Ravshan
                ... The Bolshevik Communists destroyed industrial production in Russia.
                If in 1913 Russia produced products, albeit a poor one, but of a European level, then in 1991 the USSR totally produced useless rubbish to anyone (all "industrial enterprises" simply collapsed after the market opened), except for raw materials. Those. it was simply a pure raw materials appendage of the West. Unlike Russia in 1913 ...

                All enterprises were covered by about the same “craftsmen” and “experts”, like you ... Almost with trepidation, they spoke about the “hand of the market that will settle everything”)

                Quote: Ravshan
                ... but I’m just a representative of just the Russian nation ...

                This is not true, you even in your profile so diligently hide the country ...

                ... You again confuse concepts and subjectivity.
                The USSR is of no use to the Russians, only harm.

                Again all the same opuses and with the same meaning, or rather, its absence).
                1. Ravshan Offline
                  Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 14: 45
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                  Quote: 321
                  All enterprises covered, about the same "craftsmen" and "experts" as you ...

                  These were enterprises producing "Soviet products." Those. shit.
                  In the world, shit was (and now also) not worth the price. Therefore, these enterprises quite naturally went bankrupt. In market conditions, another fate simply could not wait for them.
                  It remains only the production of raw materials.
                  1. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 30 November 2019 14: 50
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                    Everything written by you in this post, nothing more than your personal, very subjective opinion, which has nothing to do with reality)
              2. Sapsan136 Offline
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 1 December 2019 21: 49
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                Crap, this is the B-52, and the B-1 is losing the net to the Tu-160 ... I don’t know what they have grown there, except for the public debt, apparently nothing ... Switzerland has a good economy, but it has neither army nor industry, no chance to win the war against the same Germany, if you imagine its opportunity for a second ... In China, everything works, and not just
                it consumes energy, otherwise China would have been conquered long ago ... I doubt very much that you are Russian with such thoughts ... I am sure that there is no ... As for the Russians in the USSR, and indeed, they are the state-forming people and the engine of progress, as if the nationals didn’t want the opposite ... Yes, among the nationals there are also decent people, such as the hero of the USSR Dagestan Hajiyev, but not a single street is named after him, and a military base is named after him in the Russian north .. . Alas, for most Caucasians the hero is not a decent person, Hajiyev, but a bandit Sh Amil, a jerk who only had the courage and courage to rob passenger trains ... The same jackal as Hitler's bedding Bandera ...
                1. Ravshan Offline
                  Ravshan (Jamsut) 1 December 2019 22: 21
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                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  Switzerland has a good economy, but there is no army, no industry, no chance to win the war against Germany itself, if one imagines its opportunity ...

                  The strongest in Europe is considered the army of Switzerland. This is so for a minute.
                  The Swiss economy ranks 14th in the world (Russia's economy is 21st). It is larger than Russian by 2,44 times.
                  The 20 largest companies in the world include:
                  13. Nestle $ 292 billion
                  19. Novartis $ 245 billion
                  Total, only these 2 companies, this is 537 billion dollars. At the same time, the entire Russian economy was estimated at $ 2018 billion in 694,6.

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  otherwise China would have been conquered long ago ...

                  What do you all go through through conquest? Where does such a cave world view come from?

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  I doubt very much that you are Russian with such thoughts ... I'm sure not ...

                  Wrong.

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  As for the Russians in the USSR, and indeed in general, they are the state-forming people and the engine of progress,

                  There were very few Russians in the USSR, since starting from the Civil War, the Bolsheviks, and then the Communists, slaughtered the Russians in the bud.
                  In return, they came up with "Soviet Russians." What they put stamps in their passport about.
                  Of course, Soviet Russians most often had nothing to do with Russian (present).

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  Among the nationalities, there are also decent people, such as the hero of the USSR Dagestan Hajiyev


                  Gadzhiev, this is not exactly what you imagine about him.

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  and the Russians named the military base in the Russian North ...

                  This is an ambiguous event.
                  Hajiyev fought, it is a fact. In the end there was a com. division. But the benefits that he brought were unlikely to be able to cover the damage that he had inflicted on the RKKF and the USSR by his actions. And this damage is called a "K-series cruiser with all crew." Plus the commander Hajiyev himself.

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  The same jackal as Hitler's bedding of Bandera ...

                  Who told you that Bandera had anything to do with the Nazis?
                  He spent most of the war in a concentration camp. And then, when the Germans released him, in the hope that through him they would agree with the UPA, he refused to cooperate with them.
                  I do not know from which garbage otter you draw your "information".
                  1. Sapsan136 Offline
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 2 December 2019 12: 10
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                    You can take anything ... Such as you, and Leopard-2 tanks were considered better than the T-90, and Syria put everything in its place and proved your lie ... Yes, I was not mistaken, I’m simply carrying Russophobia from you ... By your logic, in France there are no French either, because the political system changed there many times, there were different kinds of republics, and the kingdom, and empire ... now here is the republic again ... And, by the way, what kind of Russians were destroyed during the revolution, which sold Port Arthur Stessel and the like for the Japanese chekushka ?! So neither the Russians nor the same Stessel most of his contemporaries considered a traitor who should have been shot ... Hajiyev is exactly that, this is a real officer, a man of honor, not a bandit Shamil ... robbing passenger trains ... Well, in a war without there are no losses, and before his death, Hajiyev managed to destroy one Finnish guard from the deck guns of his submarine and damage two more, taking them to flight (morally breaking their crews, which is also worth a lot) ... In the next battle, Hajiyev died, but the last radiogram from his submarine - I accept the battle, I’m dying, but I don’t give up ... This is a worthy example for our own and a terrible example for the enemy ... I know that you are a Bandera and on YouTube you carry this nonsense under the nickname Alexander Sterlikov, change your name to Ukrainian and rub your nonsense into yours, Lviv ...
                  2. Ravshan Offline
                    Ravshan (Jamsut) 2 December 2019 13: 19
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                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Hajiyev is exactly that, this is a real officer, a man of honor.

                    Gadzhiev was an occasional man in the submarine. Therefore, he constantly sought to fight artillery submarines, floating to the surface. Which was bad for this. Once he and the boat did not get away with it.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Well, in war there is no loss.

                    Loss to loss strife.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    ... but the last radiogram from his submarine - I accept the battle, I die, but I do not give up ...

                    In fact, there was no such radiogram (I am writing according to Kolyshkin "In the depths of the polar seas"). You made it up. The bottom line was that pop up for art. battle, the submarine suffered damage from which it could not sink.
                    And could not leave by surface.
                    Therefore, the only acceptable option was to flood the boat, and the crew to surrender (approximately, as Rudnev did with the Varyag at Chemulpo).
                    It was a civilized scenario. But the Soviet option was chosen (70 corpses of submariners without prejudice to the Germans), which Soviet citizens interpret as "heroism". Moreover, the submariners did not choose anything, Gadzhiev chose as the senior chief (division commander).
                  3. Sapsan136 Offline
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 2 December 2019 13: 36
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                    Then you can stop writing, you Bandera, or Basmach, with your many clones, doesn’t matter ... It’s clear that you are an enemy of the Russian Federation and not our man at all ... I don’t drink, VSUshniki plump, like you. ... from fear of us, including ... Kolchak is a Ukrainian, Wrangel and Stessel are also not Russians ... Many, most of them, and not only Hajiyev, fought artillery at the time, because the submarines at that time were more likely diving, than underwater, and torpedoes are not reliable ... I’m not making anything up ... and with my education everything is OK ... The submarine surfaced precisely because radiated damage from deep bombs, and her powerful airborne artillery weapons gave at least some chance, if not to survive, then even to get even and die for nothing ... Rudnev accepted the battle and only after exhausting the means of resistance sank the ship, and the crew was evacuated to neutral ships, but didn’t surrender to the Japanese ... The Varyag’s crew themselves never considered prisoners ... Besides, surrendering to the Nazi concentration camp, where the prisoners were simply destroyed, was frankly not a smart idea ... although, like you, and surrendered, and to Hitler lived in your SS divisions Nakhtigal Galichina and SS Tamara battalions.
                  4. Ravshan Offline
                    Ravshan (Jamsut) 2 December 2019 14: 03
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                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    The fact that you are an enemy of the Russian Federation and not at all our man has long been understood ...

                    Actually, I, as befits a Russian, a patriot of Russia.
                    Unlike the patriots of the USSR.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Kolchak is Ukrainian, Wrangel and Stessel are also not Russian ...

                    Russians, do not hesitate. And don't give me a Soviet understanding of these terms.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Many, most of them, and not just Hajiyev, fought with artillery at that time.

                    Are you out of your mind? Do you even know what a submarine is?

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    ... because the submarines at that time were more diving than underwater.

                    You have mixed up 1MV with 2MV.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    ... and torpedoes are not reliable ...

                    And were the shells reliable? Everything Soviet was unreliable. It was such a country.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    I’m not making anything up ... and everything’s OK with education ...

                    Of course of course. Repeatedly heard from the uneducated about the best education in the world.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    The submarine surfaced precisely because it received damage from deep bombs, and its powerful airborne artillery weapons gave at least some chance, if not to survive, then even to get even and die for nothing ...

                    Kolyshkin (brigade commander) in his book (you, of course, have not read it) sets out the situation differently. And he doesn’t write about damage from deep bombs. But he writes about submarine damage during art. battlefield. Which deprived her of the opportunity to dive.
                    And since she did not give up, she was destroyed by the Germans in a safe way for them.
                    Read "In the depths of the polar seas", everything is written there.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Rudnev accepted the battle and only after exhausting the means of resistance sank the ship

                    Rudnev imitated the battle, as required by the Maritime Charter.
                    After the 3rd hit (3 hits, this is a series of hits), he deployed the Varangian and asked chirping to the bay. After which he flooded the ship, and the crew interned (surrendered to a third party).

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    moreover, the crew was evacuated to neutral ships, and did not surrender to the Japanese ..

                    Not "evacuated on neutral ships", but interned. Surrendered to a third party. You don’t even know such elementary things.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    The Japanese themselves the crew of the Varyag never considered prisoners ...

                    Like this? Considered, of course. Otherwise, they would not have let them out of Chemulpo. On no ships.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    In addition, surrender to the Nazi concentration camp, where prisoners were simply destroyed ...

                    You confuse the POW camp with a concentration camp, a factory for the extermination of people, in vain.
                    These are different camps.
                  5. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 2 December 2019 14: 53
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                    Quote: Ravshan
                    ... Actually, I, as befits a Russian, a patriot of Russia.
                    Unlike the patriots of the USSR.

                    This is just your illusion, and no more, you are again maliciously deceived.

                    Quote: Ravshan
                    …Of course of course. Many times I heard from the uneducated about the best education in the world ...

                    Wrote one who himself studied at the rubber-rubber institute bully

                    Quote: Ravshan
                    ... You in vain confuse a prisoner of war camp with a concentration camp, a factory for the extermination of people.
                    These are different camps.

                    When those who were educated at the galosh university, like you, were worried that these were links of ONE SYSTEM ...

                    Quote: Ravshan
                    ... They thought, of course. Otherwise they would not have let them out of Chemulpo. On no ships ...

                    Teach materiel how internment differs from captivity ...

                    Quote: Ravshan
                    ... Rudnev imitated battle, as required by the Maritime Charter.
                    After the 3rd hit (3 hits, this is a series of hits), he deployed the Varangian and asked chirping to the bay. After which he flooded the ship, and the crew interned (surrendered to a third party).
                    ... Not "evacuated on neutral ships", but interned. Surrendered to a third party. You don’t even know such elementary things ...

                    You tell your nonsense to the Japanese -

                    ... Paying tribute to the feat of the Russian sailors, the Japanese left the name “Varyag” at the stern by personal decision of Emperor Mutsihito. The captain of the vessel announced to recruits that they would be trained on a Russian ship that had fought with an entire squadron, and its crew refused to surrender...

                    hi
                  6. Sapsan136 Offline
                    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 2 December 2019 15: 01
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                    You are not a patriot of Russia, because everything that is beneficial to Russia and its indigenous people causes terrible heartburn ... Katz, and you are not Russians and not patriots of Russia, there is no doubt about it ... salaries such as you, in 1905, received at the embassy of England, and now the Yankees feed and the very existence of Russia is for you and your masters a great sorrow ... The shells were more reliable than torpedoes, and not only in the USSR, but practically in everyone at that time ... I’m not interested in what drunk nonsense and where you read about the Varangian, the truth is that after the battle the steering wheel was broken at the cruiser and only three guns survived, with a minimum amount of ammunition ... You didn’t even read Japanese documents on this subject ... For example, the Varyag’s crew returned to Russia before the end of the war with Japan, and those who were captured only returned after the war ... Tell this to the descendants of General Karbyshev, whom the Nazis tortured to death in a prisoner of war camp, like many others ...
                  7. Ravshan Offline
                    Ravshan (Jamsut) 2 December 2019 16: 21
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                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    ..because everything that is beneficial to Russia and its indigenous population causes terrible heartburn in you ..

                    This is a blatant lie.
                    Soviet socialism and its order never benefited Russia and its population. It was a cave-in flayer mode, from which Russia lost at least a third (some experts indicate half) of its population, and also degraded technically and technologically to the level of the plinth.
                    You do not want the good of Russia, urging its population to return back to the Middle Ages.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Katz and you are not Russian and not patriots of Russia, there is no doubt about that ... people like you received a salary at the British Embassy in 1905, and now the Yankees feed and the very existence of Russia is a great grief for you and your masters .. .

                    This is the usual dull verbiage. A set of restraints.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    The shells were more reliable than torpedoes, and not only in the USSR, but almost all at that time ...

                    This is the third question. Do not take me aside, want to discuss the issue, discuss it in essence.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    what drunk nonsense and where did you read

                    I do not use your sources of information.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    after the battle, the steering wheel was broken at the cruiser

                    Nope. There were problems in his drive (not from the Japanese fire). But the Varangian was a twin-screw ship. Therefore, it was not critical for him.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    and only three guns survived, with a minimum amount of ammunition ..

                    Only one cannon of the main gun of 12 was broken. A few more were simply damaged. Temporarily. Ammunition on the Varyag remained a bunch. They all went to the Japanese.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    You have not even read Japanese documents on this subject ...

                    Why so? I read the most detailed report that the Japanese subsequently came from the Varangian.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    So, for example, the Varyag crew returned to Russia before the end of the war with Japan

                    So what? According to the laws of internment in the army, they were ordered to go to the end of the war. You want to tell me something in vain. I understand perfectly what Varyag was. And what was Asama.
                    It is clear that the Varangian had no chance, except virtual. Therefore, I fully support the actions of Rudnev (and, by the way, adm. Nebogatov too). And I do not agree with the actions of Hajiyev.

                    Quote: Sapsan136
                    Tell this to the descendants of General Karbyshev, whom the Nazis tortured to death in a prisoner of war camp

                    Karbyshev was tortured to death at the Mauthausen concentration camp.
                    It was not a prisoner of war camp, it was a concentration camp. The camps for prisoners of war were called Stalag - ???.
                    You generally confuse German stalagas and concentration camps in vain.
                    As for the figure of Karbyshev, the Russian nobleman, a lieutenant colonel in the service of the Red Army, it looks on his part, how would you more accurately say ...
                  8. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 2 December 2019 16: 51
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                    Quote: Ravshan
                    ... Nope. Were problems in its drive (not from the fire of the Japanese). But the Varangian was a twin-screw ship. Therefore, it was not critical for him.
                    ... I read a detailed report on the fact that the Japanese subsequently posted from the Varyag ...

                    Well, to read and assimilate information for you, apparently, is different -

                    ... During the battle, the cruiser "Varyag" received such damage ...
                    ... a pipe has been broken in which all the steering gears pass ...

                    Apparently, her cancers were bitten, but the Japanese have nothing to do with this. laughing bully hi
                  9. Ravshan Offline
                    Ravshan (Jamsut) 2 December 2019 16: 59
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                    Quote: 321
                    ... During the battle, the cruiser "Varangian" received such damage: ...
                    • a pipe is broken in which all steering gears pass ...

                    If it’s written on some barn ... then don’t think that it is stored there. Most often there is firewood.
                    Is the hint clear?
                  10. 321 Offline
                    321 (321) 2 December 2019 17: 24
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                    Your hint to yourself and determine where exactly to tell? I’ll give up everything and take it. Will they give you the info? ISSUED, but the fact that someone is NOT capable of assimilating it - these are already your problems, as you wrote earlier there - "you will find them yourself", and look for them yourself ...
              3. Sapsan136 Offline
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 2 December 2019 20: 48
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                This is not a lie ... You justify any crimes against the Russian Federation and its indigenous population ... As they say - Tell me whose Crimea, and I’ll say who you are ... Russia lost more from Chubais and others like it than through Hitler's fault ... Driving a ship, propellers and a rudder are two different things, so different that the Bismarck’s crew died because of a malfunctioning rudder ... You yourself don’t understand anything about this, and those you read are not sailors or techies so don’t write nonsense ... It’s your nationality ... Katz always offers to surrender ... Karbyshev was a prisoner of war, but where he was killed the Nazis - question 16 ... He served Russia, not the invaders, like your Skin ... In France, those who fled to England and served the ousted monarchs are also not considered patriots of France ...
              4. Ravshan Offline
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 16: 01
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                Quote: Sapsan136
                You justify any crimes against the Russian Federation and its indigenous population ..

                What nonsense are you making up here?

                Quote: Sapsan136
                Driving a ship, propellers and a rudder are two different things, so different that the Bismarck’s crew died due to a rudder malfunction ...

                Yeah. And the torpedoes that hit it, no one from the torpedo bombers had any significance for his death.
                The nonsense is simply enchanting.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                You yourself do not understand anything

                Well versed in this. And even I’ll inform you that modern ships today are often built without any archaic helm in the stern.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                Karbyshev was a prisoner of war, and where the Nazis killed him - question 16 ...

                How is it 16? You confuse stalagas (prisoner of war camps) with concentration (penal) camps.
                Actually, these are very different camps. You will know now.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                He served Russia

                He served the USSR. Do not confuse Russia and the USSR.
                Although once upon a time, before the Bolshevik coup, he also served Russia.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                and not to the invaders, like your skin ...

                The skin is not mine. But he served just Russia.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                In France, those who fled to England and served the ousted monarchs are also not considered patriots of France ...

                This is generally not interesting to anyone.
              5. Sapsan136 Offline
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 3 December 2019 17: 02
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                Bullshit is your writings ... If it weren’t for the damage to the steering wheel, Bismarck would have quietly gone to Brest and no one would have caught up with him ... Well, you in Zhmerenka didn’t tear off one goat’s tail ... where am I to you ... Mr. Jamsut Sterlikov ... Apparently, I was right initially, you are one of these Svidomo plasterers who everyone knows, everyone knows how to do and “the smartest in the jungle.” I don’t care ... there is a fact of the murder of prisoners of war by the Nazis ... I don’t know the details they are interested ... your Ukrainian Shkuro served Hitler, just like you serve the USA now ... Do you think that you are more interesting? In vain ...
              6. Ravshan Offline
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 17: 16
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                Quote: Sapsan136
                Bullshit is your scribble ...

                Not for you to judge. You do not have the qualifications for this.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                If it were not for the damage to the steering wheel, Bismarck would have quietly gone to Brest and no one would have caught up with him ...

                Yeah. And the fact that he simply didn’t get there, he was caught up with by torpedo bombers, this, of course, doesn’t matter.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                Details do not interest me ..

                Of course, they are not interested. You are of little interest. This is probably why you know almost nothing. And use only rumors.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                Hitler served your Ukrainian Shkuro

                Free people in general, as a rule, have the right to choose.
                And only in livestock on the farm the choice is not rich.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                just like you serve the USA now ...

                Who told you such nonsense? Have you come up with?
                I am Russian and serve Russia.
                Unlike Soviet citizens who serve the USSR. Despite the fact that he has long been dead.
              7. Sapsan136 Offline
                Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 3 December 2019 22: 47
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                And who told you, Dzhamshut Sterlikov, that you have any qualifications other than plasterer? You’re funny, small ... Such as you and Shkuro can serve Russia only at logging, at the resorts of the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation, in other places you serve either Hitler or the Yankees ... By the way, to me, the Soviet Union, and with people like you, in one country, I don’t want to live for a long time ... You, like all Ukrainian villagers, are sure that if you are against Bandera, then for Putin ... So, in the Donbass everyone is fighting against you, from monarchists to communists, so you everybody doesn’t like ... Sterlikov, your country lives under the flag of a colony of Austria-Hungary, don’t write to me about freedom, I just had a hearty dinner, I don’t feel comfortable laughing ... T orthopedists just damaged his steering wheel and nothing more ... you wrote that this was nothing, but that ruined the battleship ...
              8. Ravshan Offline
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 23: 23
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                Quote: Sapsan136
                People like you and Shkuro can serve Russia only at logging, at resorts of the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation

                In fact, Shkuro served quite a lot and successfully served Russia. WW1 ended with a colonel, starting it with just a centurion (something like a starley), a platoon commander. Unlike you, verbiage inadequate. Not a day has served Russia.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                and with people like you, I don’t want to live in one country for a long time ..

                Excellent. Pack your suitcase and go to North Korea.

                Quote: Sapsan136
                Torpedo bombers just damaged his steering wheel and nothing more ... you wrote that this was nothing, but it ruined the battleship ...

                Damage to the steering wheel, which destroyed the battleship, is generally enchanting.
                I have rarely heard more nonsense in my life.
              9. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 4 December 2019 06: 44
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                Quote: Ravshan
                ... are you local inadequate?
                It seems like ...

                Whoever writes about inadequacy here, but writes almost the local "celebrity" of the site, though you don’t wish such an "fame" and "reputation" for the enemy, but it’s your choice and your cross, so bear that, mister they asked ... bully

                Quote: Ravshan
                ... Actually, Skuro served quite a lot and successfully served Russia. WW1 ended with a colonel, starting it with just a centurion (something like a starley), a platoon commander. Unlike you, verbiage inadequate. Not a day serving Russia ...

                And it’s very good that YOUR RUSSIA wasn’t served, or rather the one you want to make it, but the pens are short ...
                And as for Shkuro, it does not matter what he did before, albeit in the WWI, with his hobbles with Hitler, he crossed out all that was good once.

                Quote: Ravshan
                ... Damage to the steering wheel, which destroyed the battleship, is generally enchanting.
                I have rarely heard more nonsense in my life.

                Even more enchanting is the fact that you often have to read from you here, your set of mantras of incomprehensible origin and complete inadequacy, but we don’t even remember about reliability ... lol
                But almost the main reason for the death of the battleship was the very damage to the steering wheel, but this peak remained unconquered for you, it’s already clear - you don’t want to know and learn, this is your choice, with EVEN IN NORTH. Korea will not be taken in any form. hi
              10. Ravshan Offline
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 4 December 2019 10: 55
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                Quote: 321
                But almost the main reason for the death of the battleship was the very damage to the steering wheel, but this peak remained unconquered for you, it’s already clear

                And again for those who do not know what a "ship" is.
                A rudder is not a vital item for ships with more than one propeller.
                And a single-rotor ship will not drown from damage to the steering wheel. But it will be difficult to manage. A multi-screw ship may well do without a rudder. The efficiency of his cars will be less, that's all.
                Bismarck had THREE screws.
              11. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 4 December 2019 13: 18
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                What difference does it make, how many screws, if the steering wheel .. well, let's call it personally for you, it is stuck in the position when it was turned? And precisely this led to the fact that the pursuers caught up with him and drowned him, and you continue to believe that this did not lead to anything. tongue bully
              12. Ravshan Offline
                Ravshan (Jamsut) 4 December 2019 13: 40
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                Quote: 321
                What difference does it make, how many screws, if the steering wheel .. well, let's call it personally for you, it is stuck in the position when it was turned?

                You are not able to understand anything at all?
                A ship is not a car. It is managed differently. According to other principles.

                Quote: 321
                and it was precisely this that led the persecutors to catch him and drown him

                Nothing like this. They did not catch him, but intercepted him. And they intercepted him because the Americans (as if neutral) on Catalina, having discovered Bismarck in the ocean, surrendered it to the Britons with giblets.
                And they drowned him because the numerical superiority of the Britons was overwhelming.
                Yes, in fact, they didn’t drown (the Britons), but he himself discovered the kingstones, after the order of the commander (or it’s not clear to anyone at all that this is not clear) to evacuate from Bismarck.
                Those. the Germans, as Soviet citizens love it, did not stand "to the last death." And they didn’t "die heroically." And realizing the futility of the resistance, the ship was flooded, giving a chance for part of the crew to escape.
                However, the Britons did not begin to save the Bismarck crew (they lifted only 111 people on board). And then they just left. As a result, the Germans themselves were able to save another 5 people. Out of 2220 crew members. And the rest perished.
              13. 321 Offline
                321 (321) 4 December 2019 13: 50
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                It’s you who are NOT able to understand that IF IT weren’t this damage, IT WOULD just go away ...
                Teach materiel, tired of the basics of trying to explain to you, and to no avail, learn for yourself ...
                And you don’t even have to try to propagate your “beliefs” - “oh, there they shot, so what if it’s twenty kilometers away from us, you have to give up urgently” - your “policy” is precisely this. tongue
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  3. Sapsan136 Offline
    Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 5 December 2019 16: 05
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    Shkuro always served himself, and not Russia, patients with Russophobia and the independence of Russia do not serve, and you know this no worse than me, Sterlikov ... You always look for your masters, as it seems to you, stronger, so that later, coming after their army, rob Russia, but they will constantly break you off and break them off, regardless of who you six, Hitler, or the Yankees.
  4. 321 Offline
    321 (321) 2 December 2019 14: 07
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    There is a correction, if you don’t mind - let Stessel be his colleague, hi and the details about Rudnev and so on, you are telling him in vain, he does NOT know this and does NOT want to know ...
  5. 321 Offline
    321 (321) 2 December 2019 13: 47
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    Quote: Ravshan
    ... Your fantasies on this subject are not interesting ...

    Just like your opus is uninteresting.

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... Russophobia carries from you. As, however, from all the Vatans ...

    And who is interested in the opinion of someone who, like you, carries a saucepan on his head, and you have this built-in part, it is inseparable bully

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... Therefore, the only acceptable option was to flood the boat, and the crew to surrender (approximately, as Rudnev did with the Varangian at Chemulpo).
    It was a civilized scenario. But the Soviet option was chosen (70 corpses of submariners without prejudice to the Germans), which Soviet citizens interpret as "heroism". Moreover, the submariners did not choose anything, Gadzhiev chose as the senior chief (division commander).

    It’s not for you, as the brightest representative of the tribe “to be given up,” to judge this.

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... Yes, and by the way, ... Stessel, ... are all Russian people ...

    This is where I will not argue with you almost for the first time - Stessel is your colleague, continue to be proud of this further. hi
  6. 321 Offline
    321 (321) 2 December 2019 21: 21
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    Quote: Ravshan
    ...The strongest in Europe is considered the army of Switzerland. This is so for a minute. The Swiss economy ranks 14th in the world (Russia's economy is 21st). It is larger than Russian by 2,44 times.
    The 20 largest companies in the world include:
    13. Nestle $ 292 billion
    19. Novartis $ 245 billion
    Total, only these 2 companies, this is 537 billion dollars. At the same time, the entire Russian economy in 2018 was estimated at 694,6 billion dollars ...

    Just a little bit, and your “pearls” will be worthy of carving in granite laughing - it is true, with the comment “this dregs have spoken ....”, but this does not bother you and this is good. hi
    Compare economies or the army after all ?? Your "deep" idea that war is, first of all, a war of economies, in this case not to offer, is a different situation, but the fact that you are NEVER military and didn’t even approach the strategy, tactics and operational art on a scooter in childhood , it’s been clear for a long time, but what someone told you - he deceived you. bully

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... Who ever told you that Bandera had anything to do with the Nazis?
    He’s almost the whole war sat in a concentration camp. And then, when the Germans released him, in the hope that through him they would agree with the UPA, he refused to cooperate with them ...

    In this stream of thought, the key is the word "nearly" - before getting into the camp, oh, I managed a lot, but you won’t write about it - or you just don’t know about it, or, as an option, it’s not beneficial for you to write about it, just another picture turns out ...

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... I do not know from which garbage can you get your "information".

    It is impossible to name the sources of your "information" even a garbage can, they are an order of magnitude worse (buckets) ... tongue
  7. Ravshan Offline
    Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 16: 18
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    Quote: 321
    Your "deep" idea that war is, first of all, a war of economies, in this case not to offer - another situation

    Actually, this is an axiom of the defense policy of any country.
    Those. that thing which is inappropriate to argue with.

    Quote: 321
    the key is the word "almost" - before getting into the camp oh how many managed

    From 37 to mid-September 39, he was in a Polish prison. Then the guards fled, and the prisoners, including Bandera, were released.
    Notice the difference?
    The Poles of the prison guards fled, leaving the prisoners alive.
    The NKVD in 1941 first executed the prisoners and the suspects, and only then scattered in different directions.
    And why did he have to do nothing?
    He was a patriot of his homeland and fought against its capture of the USSR.
    Patriots from different countries are fighting against the seizure by foreign invaders of their homeland.
    The Finns fought in 1940.
    Why did Bandera not have the right to do this?

    Quote: 321
    ANOTHER picture immediately turns out ...

    Which one else? Have you got a roof leaked out there through the Looking Glass?
  8. 321 Offline
    321 (321) 3 December 2019 17: 34
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    Quote: Ravshan
    ... Actually, this is an axiom of the defense policy of any country.
    Those. the thing that is inappropriate to argue with ...

    As there, in the classics -

    The trouble is, since the cake will start to stitch the boots .. "

    - this is about you.
    It almost touches me when people, who are not close to military sciences, begin to philosophize on military topics, but I’m not going to be engaged in your education at least here, even in other places, if you happen to get somewhere - well, there it is carried out on a reimbursable basis, so that the "pesho ischo" (c) hi

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... And why did he have to do nothing?
    He was a patriot of his homeland and fought against its capture of the USSR.
    Patriots from different countries are fighting against the capture by foreign invaders of their homeland ... Why did Bandera not have the right to do this? ...

    It is possible to fight in different ways, this teammate was so strong that the Poles are still hiccuping, so he picked up his counterparts NOT those ...
    You will find examples yourself ...

    Quote: Ravshan
    ... which one else? Have you got a roof leaked out there through the Looking Glass?
    Understand, finally, one simple thing. Many people do not want to live with you, not just together, but even close by.
    They do not like your tribe (a sect, actually, of course).
    They bypass your third plague hut.

    You have a looking glass behind the mirror, and the fact that you don’t want to live next to me - rather makes me happy than scares me, I don’t know how these bacilli spread, tongue but you’d better live away ... And think first of all about your hut, yours is NOT any better than the plague ...
  • nov_tech.vrn Offline
    nov_tech.vrn (Michael) 30 November 2019 02: 24
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    Bravo, tom44, you analyte 80 level, take a cookie.
  • 321 Offline
    321 (321) 28 November 2019 22: 14
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    ... No, well, that illiteracy, lack of education (coupled with the greatest conceit), as well as the wildest envy, are branded chips, it’s understandable ... Is this some kind of genetic engineering? It is clear that in the USSR it was impossible to get a normal education. But after all, now all the possibilities are provided, both for obtaining education and for self-education.
    But no. This does not work. Probably not, than to absorb this formation. There is no gray matter ...

    - how self-critical you are in this excerpt from your comment, why would it be?)))
  • Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 29 November 2019 07: 01
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    The Tu-124 had a margin of safety, but all attempts to land western planes on water ended in death ...

    - you write complete nonsense, the most stupid urapatriotic example: are our TU-124s the most planted in the water? It is more likely from pilots and good luck. And then everyone had a slightly different approach to design. What about landing on the Hudson before in the Atlantic?
  • Ehanatone Offline
    Ehanatone 30 November 2019 21: 17
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    ... there is no one to construct such aircraft (in the USSR there never was a full-fledged civil aircraft industry)

    But it’s nothing that the USSR occupied 40% of the civilian population before the collapse, which Boeing and Airbus shared safely ...
    The quality of the Boeings has shown itself very much this year! ...
    1. Ravshan Offline
      Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 21: 36
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      Quote: Ehanatone
      But it’s nothing that the USSR occupied 40% of the civilian before the collapse, which Boeing and Airbus shared safely

      Why not 400%? or not 4000%?
      To lie, so to lie!
      In fact, "Soviet planes" flew only in the USSR and at its satellites.
      They also flew where they managed to get a loan (which no one even planned to give) for kisses on the gums of dear Leonid Ilyich.
      And also where they managed to successfully exchange them for bananas or palm oil.
      For money, "Soviet planes" no one bought anywhere.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Arkharov Offline
    Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 28 November 2019 18: 19
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    And yet, this aircraft should be built on the basis of Russian components, and not consist of half foreign parts, like the Superjet ... Then we can sell our aircraft to anyone, without regard to the opinions of foreign suppliers and their governments ...

    - not at all a fact.
    1. tom44 Offline
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 20: 49
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      Quote: Arkharov
      rather than half composed of foreign parts, like a Superjet ...

      Superjet consists of 70% of imported components. MS-21 just consists of 40%, which is much closer to half.
      1. Arkharov Offline
        Arkharov (Grigory Arkharov) 29 November 2019 06: 53
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        I'm talking about the second part of this statement. The fact that it will consist entirely of domestic components is not at all a fact that it is certified abroad. Would it not be the other way around?
  • Rusa Offline
    Rusa 29 November 2019 15: 23
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    That's right, I support. The authorities in the Kremlin should first of all think about their country and the common population of Russia, and not about the profits of the oligarchs and their personal belongings.
    The nationalization of Aeroflot and other companies will force them to work in the interests of the country, and not in their own pocket and the interests of foreigners.
    1. Ravshan Offline
      Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 16: 19
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      Quote: Rusa
      The nationalization of Aeroflot and other companies will force them to work in the interests of the country, and not in their own pocket and the interests of foreigners.

      Aeroflot is already under state control. Like all significant for the economy of the company, regardless of their form of ownership.
  • yuriy55 Offline
    yuriy55 (Yuri Vasilievich) 28 November 2019 14: 35
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    Who will say why I want to kick and send someone to teach at school for 18 thousand?
    Has this “wonderful perfection” made anything useful in life? Or just learned to turn food into shit?
  • Bakht Offline
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 November 2019 15: 46
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    In addition to certification issues, there is also an equally acute maintenance problem.
    Who will buy an airplane whose maintenance is not supported? Even within the country, how quickly can prevention be done, what is a superjet, what is MS?
    1. tom44 Offline
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 16: 11
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      Quote: Bakht
      Who will buy an airplane whose maintenance is not supported?

      Excellent spotted. Superjet got burned precisely on technical support, which actually was not. And any aircraft on this will burn, regardless of its design and performance characteristics.
  • tom44 Offline
    tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 16: 32
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    Currently, a favorable situation is developing for the export of the MS-21 aircraft and the modernized RRJ-Sukhoi (SSJ 100) due to the high concern in the world about the safe operation of their main competitor, the Boeing 737 MAX.

    It seems that the author is not up to date with the material.
    The Boeing 737 MAX and the MC-21 are not classmates of the SSJ 100 at all.
    Yes, and the MC-21 with the Boeing 737 MAX is also not very competitors, although these are already closer to each other.

    It needs modernization, the creation of a shorter and longer version, the replacement of imported components with domestic ones.

    That's nonsense. The problem of the Superjet is the lack of technical support in the world.

    The prospects for the MS-21 are better. The import share in it is lower than in the "Superjet", initially it was envisaged the possibility of installing a choice of American or Russian aircraft engines.

    If the import share in MS-21 is less, then its prospects are worse.
    1. anderlint Offline
      anderlint (Andrei) 29 November 2019 18: 43
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      And in the Superjet, the French components are failing, but there are no problems with ours.
      1. Ravshan Offline
        Ravshan (Jamsut) 3 December 2019 16: 20
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        Quote: anderlint
        And in the Superjet, the French components are failing, but there are no problems with ours.

        What nonsense. What are yours, Paraguayan ones?
        Then, yes, there are no problems with yours on the Superjet.
  • Observer2014 Offline
    Observer2014 28 November 2019 18: 54
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    Why is there no move to the West for the MS-21?

    Because he has no bent wingtips. bully
    Loshars again profiled marketing move. Special? am If again after the superjet, then we didn’t do it. A conscious business is wrecking.
    1. anderlint Offline
      anderlint (Andrei) 29 November 2019 18: 46
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      He has no bent wingtips.

      Again profiled marketing move.

      - Is that the terminology and explanations of a specialist?)) I would have been silent better ... and gone smart for ...
      1. Observer2014 Offline
        Observer2014 30 November 2019 17: 39
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        Quote: anderlint
        He has no bent wingtips.

        Again profiled marketing move.

        - Is that the terminology and explanations of a specialist?)) I would have been silent better ... and gone smart for ...

        You are not at all threatened with being smart. tongue
  • Valentine Offline
    Valentine (Valentin) 28 November 2019 19: 22
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    The situation repeats itself, as in the late eighties, when our IL-86-96 was hacked to the root, and for this we found a thousand reasons that it did not reach Europe, and all this was done with the direct participation of our "effective" Gaidar-Chubais managers. I flew several times from Norilsk to Moscow several times — no noise, no vibration, no “holes”, and hourly and a half hours faster than IL-18, the service is top-notch, but ..... such Boeing rivals and Airbasov in the West are not needed, and Yeltsin took under the peak, the fucking drunk. Here, these liners, like gas pipelines, as well as the sale of our missile systems, etc., etc., are also cut down to us.
    They simply twist our hands, bribing and blackmailing our top officials, or by all kinds of provocations in the international arena, against us and the world, this cannot end - the United States faces a new "Great Depression 2", and it smacks of a big war.
    1. tom44 Offline
      tom44 (tom44) 28 November 2019 20: 53
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      Quote: Valentine
      when our IL-86-96 was cut short

      At least you can imagine how much fuel 4 engines ate?
      The airline-operator, as a result, remained without panties.
      But they were designed for reliability. Like a cocksman. Therefore, in the design and construction of the economy, few people cared.
      1. Valentine Offline
        Valentine (Valentin) 29 November 2019 08: 52
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        Yes, you throw your liberal training manuals, you are already sick of them all, got it. Until 1985, the IL-18 flew from Norilsk to Moscow, with a 5,5-hour refueling in Syktyvkar, and after that almost all of the TUSHKI flew, and the IL-86 flew to Moscow 4 hours without refueling, and no barrels and canisters with jet fuel in the cabin was not. So, who was there without panties, you know better.
        1. Ravshan Offline
          Ravshan (Jamsut) 30 November 2019 21: 38
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          Quote: Valentine
          ... and the IL-86 flew to Moscow for 4 hours without refueling, and there were no barrels and canisters with jet fuel in the cabin.

          No, well this is an argument, of course. There were no cans in the cabin, which means that fuel was not consumed.

          Quote: Valentine
          So, who was there without panties, you know better.

          The operators of these silts remained. 4 motors were, if you are not in the know.
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 November 2019 07: 52
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    Quote: tom44
    Yes? And why are they so brainless (in your expert opinion), sitting on golden toilets, and you, so brainy, are sitting in a cold birdhouse?
    This does not happen in real life. Only in Soviet carols.

    This is exactly what happens with a built-in system.
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 November 2019 07: 53
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    Quote: tom44
    It needs modernization, the creation of a shorter and longer version, the replacement of imported components with domestic ones.
    That's nonsense. The problem of the Superjet is the lack of technical support in the world.

    You can immediately see what kind of expert you are.
    1. A.Lex Offline
      A.Lex (Secret information) 29 November 2019 22: 10
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      This is not an expert ... This is a repetitive two-year-old whose father held high posts in the leadership of the regional city ... Such officials usually have no time to deal with their children ... They get married late - all the time and energy went into a career, into wives, also usually, they took a brainless doll, in which external data in the complete absence of brains and reason ... That's how “lions” with sheep brains are born and grow up in such couples! In addition, Western "sponsors" always had a special approach to such kids - study at Yale or Oxford ... and at the exit, please come - a "worthy" replacement for dad !!! ....... that's just about Russia, these feeding men NEVER thought ... or thought ONLY as a feeding trough! Hence, the toms have such reasoning! What to take from her?
  • Marzhecki Online
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 November 2019 07: 56
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    Quote: Sapsan136
    This nonsense we have already passed. Only then it was a cook. It cost a lot to the country.

    Are you a graduate of the HSE? Very similar to communicate. no
    1. Sapsan136 Offline
      Sapsan136 (Sapsan136) 29 November 2019 17: 14
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      No, I'm an engineer. He graduated from the Faculty of Engineering - Engineering Technology. But we were also taught economics. He worked for VASO for several years, so the situation in the aircraft industry is a sore subject for me. It is almost personal ...
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 29 November 2019 09: 41
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    What the....?
    1) MS-21 is not yet available.
    2) Neither the domestic nor the near market, respectively, is mastered in any way. Where certificates are not needed.
    3) Do they all dream of immediately selling to the West? There are few stories with the superjet, they want to optimize more money?
    Money doesn’t smell.

    Thanks to the government and Medvedev.
  • Potapov Offline
    Potapov (Valery) 29 November 2019 09: 59
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    Patients all over the head want to fly to the masters in the West, cut down the money ... Didn’t you understand that? War. Sanctions forever - until the country is completely surrendered. Do you have a chance, "fellow countrymen" ...
  • Roarv Offline
    Roarv (Robert) 29 November 2019 19: 52
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    Every crime and violation has a full name.

    I. V. Stalin

    When they entered into a contract for the supply of components MS-21, someone signed contracts, contracts where it was indicated in black and white that export only with the consent of suppliers of components .....
    Call, Find Name, Everything will open, but the tracks will come to the Cabinet, and there is mutual responsibility ....
    So all this blah blah blah ..
    The country has a deficit of political will when it comes to its deck of close ones ....
    They mastered the taxpayer money and all.
  • ReSerg86 Offline
    ReSerg86 (Sergey R) 29 November 2019 21: 20
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    This we will see!
  • Vasil K. Offline
    Vasil K. (Vasil K.) 4 December 2019 12: 59
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    Still, it’s better to discuss bad action than not doing it! The neglected state of the army distracts too many resources ... This has to be taken into account and endured.