ATAVKR PRO: Does the Russian Navy need a Project 23000 "Storm" aircraft carrier?

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Discussing the need to create a naval version of the most powerful Russian S-500 air defense system, we noted an extremely limited range of ships that could, in principle, become its carriers. The number one candidate was either a destroyer or a cruiser of Project 23560 "Lider", which remained in the form of a model. Who was the second and last on this list?

Oddly enough, an aircraft carrier, or more precisely, a heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser of Project 23000 Storm, or Storm E (Storm 23000E) in a hypothetical export version, was seriously considered as a carrier for the Prometheus anti-aircraft missiles.



Unprecedented "Storm"


Our country is considered the world leader in the number of projects for advanced aircraft carriers, and the "Storm" among them occupies the most prominent place as the most technically advanced, complex and expensive and therefore having the least chance of practical implementation. Judge for yourself.

With a length of 330 meters, a width of 40 meters and a draft of 11 meters, the cruiser should have a full displacement of up to 100 thousand tons, which brings it closer to the most modern American aircraft carrier of the Gerald Ford type. At the same time, the Storm should receive an ice class and be able to operate in the harsh conditions of the Arctic Ocean.

It was to have a nuclear power plant, which would provide it with unlimited cruising range at speeds of up to 30 knots. Such power would also have to provide the operation of four electromagnetic catapults, not yet created, for launching the heaviest aircraft with a full combat load. In addition, the Russian aircraft carrier was to retain the launch ramp on the bow, familiar from the Admiral Kuznetsov.

The air wing of the "Storm" was supposed to be very impressive: from 70 to 90 aircraft, including the not yet created carrier-based fifth-generation Su-57K fighters, the already discontinued Su-33M and the non-existent carrier-based AWACS aircraft Yak-44. If necessary, its composition could be supplemented by anti-submarine or attack helicopters, as well as reconnaissance and attack UAVs.

We remembered Project 23000 because it was on this ship that it was supposed to install S-500 anti-aircraft missilesYes, at first glance this sounds very, very strange, since in the tradition of the Anglo-Saxons, who have eaten a dog on the aircraft carrier theme, an aircraft carrier is just a large floating airfield, which must be protected by other warships and escort submarines.

Despite the apparent absurdity of the idea of ​​placing the Prometheus SAM system on the hypothetical Shtorm, it has its advantages. The only question is whether the Russian Navy needs the Shtorm itself in the form presented?

(A) TAVKR air defense/anti-submarine warfare/missile defense?


It is no secret that American and Soviet aircraft carriers differ quite significantly in appearance and in their tactical and technical characteristics. This was due to a whole range of reasons.

The first and most important is that the US Navy's attack aircraft carriers were created as a means of projecting force abroad, specifically for naval operations against the shore, while the Soviet Navy needed aircraft carriers to provide cover for its own surface ships equipped with long-range anti-ship missiles and nuclear submarines carrying ICBMs from attacks by enemy aircraft.

That is, the heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and the most technically advanced unfinished nuclear-powered heavy aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk were required to provide combat stability to surface ship formations, strategic missile submarines, and naval missile-carrying aviation in combat areas, repel attacks by enemy carrier-based aviation, gain air superiority, and destroy enemy ship and submarine formations.

The auxiliary tasks of Soviet aircraft carriers included supporting the landing of naval assault forces, intercepting enemy missile salvos with electronic warfare aircraft, and providing long-range radar detection and target designation for the various forces of the fleet. Note that all of this remains relevant for the Russian Navy!

To perform the above tasks, the cruisers needed an appropriate air wing, but there were big problems with this. The Yak-38 carrier-based vertical takeoff and landing attack aircraft had very weak tactical and technical characteristics. The supersonic vertical takeoff and landing Yak-141 was a real breakthrough, ahead of its time in some ways, but did not go into production due to the collapse of the USSR. Horizontal takeoff from the last domestic heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, which does not have a launch catapult, conventional heavy fighters are associated with a lot of limitations on combat load, and landing sometimes leads to emergencies with the arresting gear breaking.

In addition to this, there were the well-known restrictions of the Montreux Convention, prohibiting passage through the Turkish Straits for "pure" aircraft carriers of the corresponding displacement. The decision to place missile weapons on the heavy aircraft carriers, turning the Soviet aircraft carriers into aircraft-carrying cruisers, was a forced compromise between desires and possibilities.

Both the Admiral Kuznetsov and the unfinished nuclear-powered Ulyanovsk had 12 P-700 Granit anti-ship missile launchers in their bows. Apart from the heavy aircraft carriers, these supersonic anti-ship missiles were carried only by the Orlan-class nuclear cruisers and the Antey-class nuclear submarines. Their warhead could be a conventional high-explosive penetrating warhead or a nuclear warhead with a TNT equivalent of 50 kilotons.

The main purpose of the Granits was to destroy enemy naval groups, primarily aircraft carriers. They could also be used against ground targets. During the modernization of the Admiral Kuznetsov, the Granits' vertical launchers were supposed to be removed in order to free up more space under the deck to accommodate additional aircraft and helicopters in the hangars.

In general, this is a rational decision from the point of view of turning an aircraft-carrying cruiser into a pure aircraft carrier. Still, the main weapon of a floating airfield is its aviation. True, then the question will arise about the possibility of its entry into the Black Sea through the Turkish straits, if such a need ever arises. Let us recall that all Soviet heavy aircraft carriers were built in Nikolaev.

But let's get back to where we started. What if instead of the anti-ship Granites, the aircraft carrier is equipped with anti-aircraft missiles from the Prometheus, as was proposed in the Storm project?

This would give it the ability to shoot down enemy AWACS and EW aircraft at a distance of up to 600 km, blinding the US Navy's AUG. Let us recall that up to 4 deck-based Grumman E-2 Hawkeyes are based on one US aircraft carrier. A salvo of 12 long-range missiles from the S-500 is minus 12 enemy reconnaissance satellites in low Earth orbit. Also, the Prometheus's ammunition load in the naval version would allow it to intercept, shortly after launch, from 6 to 12 intercontinental ballistic missiles launched from Ohio-class submarines somewhere in the Mediterranean Sea. Given the threat posed by the UGM-133A Trident II, this is a very significant contribution to ensuring the national security of the Russian Federation.

If you think about it, the deployment of the S-500 on aircraft carriers, which will then be able to perform air defense, anti-submarine warfare and even missile defense missions, is not such nonsense as it may seem at first glance. The only question is whether the Russian Navy specifically needs the Shtorm project with its ice class and displacement of 100 thousand tons? A modernized reincarnation of the Ulyanovsk would be enough.
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  1. +1
    17 January 2025 12: 19
    In today's reality, these projects are a waste of time and money. The topic of a hypersonic aircraft carrying air-to-space hyper missiles would be more popular, and this is real. This aircraft will reach an altitude of 100 km and have an attack range of 10 minutes. It will be unmanned, and this is real. We have implemented such projects in the USSR.
    1. +9
      17 January 2025 12: 40
      And who are these missiles to be fired at?
      I've been asking for about a year and a half: how did hypersound save a cruiser, a bridge, streams, a Black Sea Fleet base, and I can list more - oil refineries, airfields, RAVs? Now Medveditsa has been added. Rumors are going around that 3 helicopters were shot down by Bekami.
      We don't even talk about human losses...
      1. +6
        17 January 2025 13: 53
        I've been asking for about a year and a half: how did hypersound save a cruiser, a bridge, streams, a Black Sea Fleet base, and I can list more - oil refineries, airfields, RAVs? Now Medveditsa has been added. Rumors are going around that 3 helicopters were shot down by Bekami.
        We don't even talk about human losses...

        In the East they used to say: what is the sharpest sword worth in the hands of a coward?
        1. +5
          17 January 2025 16: 47
          ...and where will they launch this tub? Into the Black Sea or the Baltic Sea?
          From where will we threaten... and to whom?
          1. 0
            19 January 2025 09: 02
            Well, for the Baltics it is definitely NOT NEEDED - in 1979 the striped ones ran an aircraft carrier aground while crossing from the North to the Baltic Sea...
            Question about the concept of construction and application...
            It is no secret that in the CURRENT CONDITIONS any aircraft carrier (including the AUG) is a priority target/s, it is extremely difficult to defend against attack weapons (hypersonic, attack submarines, etc.), and taking into account the emergence of such systems as the same "Oreshnik" - it is a utopian undertaking...
            Question: Is it worth spending billions on creating (recreating) floating "monsters" (read: mass graves)?
            These AUGs were created during the "cold" war, they were effective because there were no WORTHY weapons, but now in reality ANY "mosquito" fleet has SUCH a striking force (+ low visibility and its detection), that it is time to think - IS IT NECESSARY?!
            1. 0
              19 January 2025 15: 57
              ...oh come on, what about the money for cutting up? Today's admirals want to play with ships.
      2. +1
        18 January 2025 12: 03
        Well, how about against whom - against the same AUG or removing satellites from orbit, and without a target control system and reconnaissance, all these anti-ship missiles and Atakms and Shadles are just a piece of iron. As for the use of supersonic speeds in air defense systems - no air defense system gives a 100% guarantee of protection. That the Patriots are saving Ukraine? No. Both the Daggers and Iskanders and Tsirkons (they say they have already used it) - quite normally overcome the Ukrainian air defense with Patriots, and the Iskanders fly into the Patriots themselves. But if the Russian Federation did not have one of the best (if not the best!!) air defense systems in the world, the damage from strikes on Ukraine by Western missiles would have increased many times over.
  2. +5
    17 January 2025 12: 21
    So many letters about something that will never happen. Why?
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  3. -4
    17 January 2025 12: 58
    Oh, a whole series of sheets with a plot sucked out of a finger awaits her))) You can also take icebreakers for old times' sake, even if it didn't work out with torpedoes there, but here it should)) And you can also persuade them to put them on new ice-class gas carriers))
    1. +2
      17 January 2025 13: 50
      Oh, a whole series of sheets with a plot sucked out of a finger awaits her))) You can also take icebreakers from old memory, even if it didn’t work out with torpedoes there, but here it should))

      It was you who didn't succeed with the torpedoes, Dimasik, as was pointed out to you by people who were much more competent than you. laughing
      https://topcor.ru/46781-duh-vremeni-ledokol-ivan-papanin-moralno-ustarel-do-vvoda-v-stroj.html
      What a pity that your pearls were rubbed off there.
      1. 0
        17 January 2025 16: 21
        Quote: Beydodyr
        It was you who didn't succeed with the torpedoes, Dimasik, as was pointed out to you by people who were much more competent than you.

        You consider yourself a competent person)))) All I heard from you: in the Arctic there is SUMMER!!!)))) and in winter they will somehow get by. My competent people from one very interesting enterprise laughed for a long time))) Go to the north sometime and listen to the sound of an icebreaker at least over water)))
        1. 0
          18 January 2025 10: 14
          You consider yourself a competent person))))

          No, not myself. And definitely not you. A career naval officer explained to you how the Paket anti-torpedo would work in the ice, and you missed it all.

          All I heard from you was: there is SUMMER in the Arctic!!!)))) and they will somehow get by in the winter.

          This is your difficulty with perception.

          My competent people from one very interesting enterprise laughed for a long time)))

          Morons, what can you expect from them?

          Go north sometime and listen to the sound of an icebreaker working, at least over water)))

          How long have you been from the north, Belarusian admiral?
          1. 0
            20 January 2025 02: 40
            Quote: Beydodyr
            No, not myself. And definitely not you. A career naval officer explained to you how the Paket anti-torpedo would work in the ice, and you missed it all.

            Where? There's no need to lie so brazenly)))

            Quote: Beydodyr
            This is your difficulty with perception.

            Well, my perception is quite normal)))

            Quote: Beydodyr
            How long have you been from the north, Belarusian admiral?

            Have you ever been there and seen an icebreaker?))) You are good at writing fantasies, but when it comes to nuances, you float like one substance in an ice hole.
  4. +7
    17 January 2025 13: 02
    We are now on the threshold of a big war, which will CERTAINLY happen soon. Therefore, it is necessary to increase mass production of missiles, drones, and postpone such projects until better times. IMHO.
  5. +6
    17 January 2025 13: 03
    with over-water and under-water drones, it's a pile of metal, until there is a real counteraction to drones, you can not even make tanks, and even more so aircraft carriers
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  7. +3
    17 January 2025 14: 04
    Quote: Alex_Kraus
    We are now on the threshold of a big war, which will CERTAINLY happen soon. Therefore, it is necessary to increase mass production of missiles, drones, and postpone such projects until better times. IMHO.

    A remark from the audience: is it possible to somehow do without the obligatory big war?! Because many have a bad feeling about its consequences... winked
    1. +2
      17 January 2025 15: 11
      Yes, it is possible, for this it is necessary that your potential enemy does not even think about the idea that you are weak. All these attempts, not yet bold, to block shipping in the Baltic are just trial balloons, and the escalation will only increase. The West needs a new redivision of the world, apparently.
      1. 0
        19 January 2025 09: 19
        I agree with all the arguments, but...
        There is no need to panic - all this BLA-BLAH-BLAH about the blockade of the Baltic Sea is rhetoric and empty talk a la Callas & Co... Even the most "zealous" in the West understand that escalation will lead to UNPREDICTABLE consequences, especially since the ENTIRE Baltic (!!!) is being shot at by Russian anti-ship missiles (far from the worst in the world!)....
        And...if we add here the CONVOYING of civilian ships (at least from Ust-Luga to Kaliningrad and further)....I would like to see the valiant Polska Marinerka, the Swedes, Norwegians, and Danes meeting OUR Baltic Fleet...
        1. 0
          19 January 2025 11: 30
          Is our great and mighty Baltic Fleet ready to meet with the BECs of our potential partners?
  8. +2
    17 January 2025 14: 07
    The leadership of the Ministry of Defense and the leadership of the Navy are preparing for the Second World War at sea. And what to do with modern weapons, they have not even thought about yet. That is why so many ships were sunk.
  9. The comment was deleted.
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  10. +2
    17 January 2025 14: 59
    Replica. Everything is needed and more, only the last question is: why and for what?
  11. 0
    17 January 2025 16: 33
    it wasn't quite like that! aircraft carriers were built in the ussr purely for show, in a real battle they would have sunk faster than moscow, because they don't have such a large number of unsinkable compartments, because of the below-deck hangar

    1 no aircraft carriers are needed and will not be, there will never be money for them (and a hundred surface destroyers of escort ships)! the Russian Armed Forces have huge needs for a wide range of necessary and effective weapons, and not to waste money on this disposable trough..

    Gerald R. Ford
    $12,8B Cost + $4,7B R&D + The U.S. Navy's Flight III Arleigh Burke-class destroyers (DDG-51) are facing cost increases and delays, with the average cost per ship jumping from $2,1 billion to $2,5 billion per hull, with even steeper increases expected in the future, according to a new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

    the whole AUG will be 2520 billion dollars, that is, six annual budgets of the RF Ministry of Defense military-industrial complex
    We will place 2 S500 on the shore, or at least on a small air defense ship based on the Karakurt
    1. +2
      17 January 2025 16: 47
      the whole AUG will be 2520 billion dollars, that is, six annual budgets of the RF Ministry of Defense military-industrial complex

      How many BECs will there be?
      ...and slowly sink the Anglo-Saxon ships. sink, sink... (possibly with the hands of the conditional Houthis)
      1. +2
        17 January 2025 16: 49
        yes, with this money you can not only make thousands of backs, but also make mbr planes, missiles, the same complexes with 500 you get hundreds of thousands
      2. 0
        18 January 2025 10: 16
        These BEKs are useless against AUGs.
        1. 0
          18 January 2025 11: 40
          Well, it depends on which ones, it is possible to improve the BEKs to such a level that they will sink enemy AUGs no worse than anti-ship missiles or the most modern torpedoes.
        2. +1
          18 January 2025 11: 49
          Well, hardly anyone will attack with Aug BECs. But with Zircons, Onyxes, daggers - quite well. And if you look at what is in the American air defense bins, then an anti-missile capable of shooting down the same dagger (and for this, the anti-missile must have a speed no less than the speed of the anti-ship missile and withstand the corresponding overloads during maneuvering) they do not have in stock today.
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  13. +5
    17 January 2025 19: 42
    What displacement is 100 thousand tons? Come on, wake up already. Stop enjoying plastic models at a scale of 1:500.
    Here they have not been able to start producing the simple Il-112, which was produced 20 years ago, for 11 years now, and they still see aircraft carriers with deck-based AWACS, tankers and attack multi-role aircraft
    1. 0
      18 January 2025 10: 15
      What displacement is 100 thousand tons? Come on, wake up already. Stop enjoying plastic models at a scale of 1:500.

      It seems to have been said that 100 thousand tons are not needed, isn’t it?
  14. 0
    17 January 2025 20: 01
    Isn't it necessary?! The question should be put this way... can we!
  15. -1
    18 January 2025 09: 06
    Sergey Marzhetsky, our big heads are thinking for too long about whether to build or not to build a new aircraft carrier, while they are thinking it will become morally obsolete once again, and specifically for the Black Sea we have our own regular aircraft carrier - the Crimean Peninsula, and since the length of the maritime borders of the Russian Federation is larger than anyone else's, not everywhere inhabited and not sufficiently fortified, an aircraft carrier is needed, and if possible not just one, but our legendary and repeatedly burned "Kuznetsov", after all a ship from the last century, and it could be left for the Black Sea at least as a training one, although we also need to think about it.
    1. +2
      18 January 2025 11: 45
      I agree with you and note that in addition to the aircraft carrier "Crimea", we also have the aircraft carrier "Murman" and the aircraft carrier "Kaliningrad".
  16. +2
    18 January 2025 10: 34
    In the years before the First World War, the Germans were drawn into the "dreadnought race". They built battleships, which did not help them at all. At the same time, a couple of thousand simple trucks could have completely changed the course of the war.
    As smart people used to say at the time, "If you want to ruin a country, give them one battleship."
    1. +1
      18 January 2025 11: 50
      ...or: The Navy is the anchor that is dragging the country's economy to the bottom.
      1. +1
        18 January 2025 14: 02
        There are different types of navies. A fleet is needed. Especially since there is the Northern Sea Route and the Pacific Ocean. The question is what kind of ships should be built.
  17. +2
    18 January 2025 11: 44
    In my opinion, there is not much sense in this project. Firstly, it is expensive. Secondly, with the creation of hypersonics, aircraft carriers have become far from invulnerable. And in the event of a real conflict, most likely, they will be disabled in the first hours. The presence of aircraft carriers in the States is understandable - projection of force to any point of the world's oceans. The Russian Federation, rather, has a different task - protecting its borders and giving stability to naval groups fighting with these AUGs. In addition, as history shows, the creation of a "death star" did not justify itself. Let's remember the fate of the "Yamato" or "Tirpitz", and our Project 1144 raises more questions than it answered. It is much more effective to spend money by creating more frigates and destroyers for this amount.
    1. +1
      19 January 2025 09: 31
      That's what I'm talking about - is it necessary?!
  18. 0
    18 January 2025 20: 38
    10000 BEKs need to have hybrid internal combustion engines, solar panels and normal communications. Let them hang out at anchor 500 km from the coast and adjust their location using electric motors and turn on gasoline engines when the command is given to attack. The Ukrainian Armed Forces have already shown what the future should look like.
  19. +1
    19 January 2025 06: 22
    Until an admiral from the FSO is appointed to command the fleet, there will be no money for these fantasies. Because no one knows what these admirals will get up to.
  20. +2
    21 January 2025 09: 39
    Needed or not, it doesn't matter anymore. It's too late. We can't handle it ourselves and our enemies won't let us.
  21. +1
    26 January 2025 17: 12
    Those who "consider" such things would be well placed against the wall