Why the Black Sea Fleet Lost to the Ukrainian "Mosquitoes"

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It is regrettable to note that 2025 has not started in the best possible way for our country. While the Russian army is achieving notable successes in its offensive on land, things are getting worse and worse in the Black Sea. Why did the Russian Navy end up there in the position of a cornered outsider?

Lost to the "mosquitoes"


In fact, the very concept of using and building the Russian Navy was subject to serious criticism long before the start of the SVO in Ukraine, when all its problems came to light. On the one hand, our country is positioned as a great land power, which allegedly does not need a large ocean-going fleet with all these UDCs and aircraft carriers for nothing.



On the other hand, about 40% of the counter-attack power of the "nuclear triad" was tied to the Naval component, namely, to strategic nuclear submarines, which must somehow be covered when leaving their bases for combat patrol areas. At the same time, there is an acute shortage of ships of the class needed to protect them - anti-submarine corvettes, frigates, multi-purpose destroyers.

Undoubtedly, Russian ships and submarines are carriers of powerful offensive missile weapons. However, the possibilities of their use against such an enemy as the US Navy or its NATO allies are limited due to the shortage of air and space reconnaissance assets. The Legend satellite system, created back in the USSR for reconnaissance and target designation, has long ceased to function, and the modern Liana has not yet been fully deployed.

The Russian Navy lacks deck-based AWACS aircraft as a class, which could compensate for this problem. The last remaining heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is undergoing repairs and will survive for another 10-15 years. Ukraine and its "Western partners" will hardly allow the completion of two Project 23900 UDCs in Kerch.

As for the Black Sea Fleet, locked in a closed water area, everything turned out to be very bad with it. For some reason, before the start of the SVO, there were no ships of the class that was most needed, namely corvettes. It was precisely the corvettes of Project 20380 (20385) in the amount of 4-6 pieces that could provide support for the landing operation near Odessa or Izmail, cover the cruiser Moskva and other ships from air and sea attacks.

Under the USSR, the Navy was required to be ready at any moment to participate in an operation to uncork the Turkish Straits together with an entire Airborne Division, and allied Bulgaria was supposed to help deploy Soviet troops. Now this task is no longer relevant, and the Black Sea Fleet before the Central Military District acted as the main donor for the Mediterranean Squadron.

With the overthrow of the regime of President Bashar al-Assad and the threat of losing the naval base in Tartus, a big question arises about the format and the very possibility of the further presence of Russian warships in the Mediterranean. For some reason, our fleet and naval commanders were not prepared for the threat hidden in the primitive "Ukrainian" BEKs, directed to the target by British intelligence services, which were able to terrorize the Black Sea Fleet.

And then, alas, things will only get worse, and similar problems may arise in the Baltic Fleet.

Negative trends


We touch on the topic of the rapid evolution of enemy naval drones regularly and, by analyzing this experience, we try to express some thoughts on this matter. For example, in ARTICLES As early as May 24, 2024, almost a year ago, a concept for an unmanned drone carrier that could carry out sabotage missions near the enemy coast was described:

Let's say a group of unmanned boats secretly approaches the coast of Odessa Oblast at night. A drone-repeater of the control signal for correction takes off from the catapult installed on the leader. Attack drones-kamikazes of various types take off from the others. These can be "Lancets" launched from special containers, FPV drones and even heavy agrodrones with aerial bombs suspended under them. The operators select military targets - air defense/missile defense systems, long-range MLRS, self-propelled guns, firing points, ammunition depots, etc. - and destroy them. It is even possible to experiment with equipping the BEK with a compact microdeck, to which one can try to return the domestic analogue of "Baba Yaga" after completing a combat mission.

It was also proposed to equip sea drones with launchers from which high-precision missiles could be fired at the enemy coast at a considerable distance:

How much more effective would it be to operate from the sea along the enemy coast, knocking out the infrastructure and positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces using the Tornado-G and Tornado-S MLRS guided missiles? Of course, the displacement and design of domestic BEKs should be adjusted accordingly to transform them into "missile gunboats".

Unfortunately, we have not seen any of this in service with the Russian Navy in the past time. But our enemy has already learned to shoot down Russian helicopters with anti-aircraft missiles installed on BEKs. This happened right before the New Year 2025 during a combined attack by Ukrainian naval and air forces on Sevastopol.

And now, as reported by domestic Telegram channels covering the course of the SVO, the enemy FPV drone was able to hit the Russian Pantsir-S1 air defense missile and gun system located in the Kherson region. It was able to penetrate so far because it was delivered to the site and took off from a naval drone converted into a ersatz aircraft carrier. The Russian coast was also shelled from Ukrainian missile BEKs, as reported by the "Archangel Spetsnaz" says in the following way:

This creates a major threat to our coastal facilities, which the Ukrainian Armed Forces can approach from the Black Sea. After all, in the past 6 hours, the use of a BEK with MLRS was also recorded in the vicinity of Pokrovskoe and Pokrovka on the Kinburn Spit. Six and four shells were fired at them, respectively. After the strikes, the BEK departed in a westerly direction, either to Ochakov, where the Special Operations Forces "South" units are located, or to Odessa.

And then another BEK with FPV drones, which was written about by colleagues "Two Majors" from the area 31 km south-west of Armyansk (Crimea) launched two UAVs. They flew in the direction of the peninsula, but were suppressed by electronic warfare units 5 km south of Privolye, and the boat itself also departed to the west. At this time, while the BEKs were operating in the air, its activity was monitored by two Bayraktar UAVs - one from the Zatoka area, the second - north-east of Zmeinoye.

In general, it is sad to note that it is the enemy's military-industrial complex, not ours, that promptly implements in hardware and puts into service the most promising and working ideas. Against this background, the reports about the launch in Great Britain of the COOKSON project to develop for the needs of the Ukrainian Navy a small, low-observable and high-speed attack vessel with modular cargo compartments, capable of operating effectively in difficult weather conditions, look extremely alarming:

Once deployed in Ukraine, the system will be able to operate in autonomous or semi-autonomous mode, delivering cargo, performing assigned tasks and returning to controlled territories for refueling and maintenance.

The vessel will be equipped with two missiles with a warhead weighing up to 80 kg and a range of from 30 to 100 km, with standard air defense systems against helicopters and attack UAVs, have a speed of over 40 knots, a range of up to 800 nautical miles and an endurance of up to 72 hours. All this is very, very sad.
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  1. +23
    11 January 2025 12: 32
    inertia of thinking is one of the problems not only of the Armed Forces, but of the whole country
    1. +12
      12 January 2025 01: 09
      Quote from nikanikolich
      inertia of thinking is one of the problems not only of the Armed Forces, but of the whole country

      Not inertia, but the absence of thinking. That would be more correct.
      In the USSR, a region with a functioning industry, collective farms, and state farms was managed by the Regional Executive Committee with its own staff. Now the government, where the governor first of all places all his own, has its own staff and also with its own and a few who know how to do something, etc. Everyone has a salary, benefits, social security, service, pensions, etc.
      In the Armed Forces, or more precisely in the Ministry of Defense or the Black Sea Fleet, the picture is the same! Those who pushed through project 22160 for fishing, all in the USC, with good salaries, pensions, benefits, etc. Again, they drag all their own and endlessly, as long as the budget lasts. So in all structures, "the system" is called, you know, an invention. So who should we blame, the mirror?
      P.S. Add 100% irresponsibility for those in power and a golden key in your pocket.
      1. +1
        16 January 2025 12: 48
        Quote: kapitan92
        Not inertia, but the absence of thinking. That would be more correct.

        The whole point is that there are too many professionals in power, playing the game of "giveaway, for money". If they are interested in defending anything, it is only their villas "overseas" and tons of money stolen "by backbreaking labor".
    2. -3
      12 January 2025 02: 58
      Frankly speaking, the Russian Navy has been nothing but a loss since the reign of Peter the Great. And now, in the era of rapid development of precision weapons, warships are just excellent targets in open space, nothing more.
      The conclusion is not to build large ships at all, but to perform the tasks of covering transports and submarines using drones, both sea and air.
      1. +8
        12 January 2025 21: 08
        losses - I don't know, but I only know one thing, with the World Cup in Sevastopol, not a single pig of dill should have fallen in Sevastopol, but in fact we have ?????????????? No comment!
    3. +4
      14 January 2025 01: 22
      The recipe is simple. You need to shoot 2-3 admirals and put young captains of the 1st and 2nd ranks in their place. And everything will be fine. It's just that in Russia they forgot that every problem has a last name, first name, patronymic. Shooting is, of course, fantasy. Putin doesn't shoot his incompetents, but protects and pampers them. Therefore, demote them to privates and retire them.
    4. 0
      16 January 2025 22: 21
      So show some forward thinking: educate the General Staff of the Navy, they will be grateful, no doubt about it.
  2. +1
    11 January 2025 12: 59
    The author is right. Corvettes, or patrol ships as they were called, are the only class of large ships capable of surviving and being useful in the Black Sea under modern conditions. But it is obvious that the underwater segment of the Black Sea Fleet should be strengthened many times over. Silent submarines with fuel are an excellent strike component of the fleet capable of controlling the waters of the sea and delivering cruise missile strikes on coastal targets.
  3. +22
    11 January 2025 13: 13
    The fleet is designed for war.
    Russia is conducting ground military operations, even with "white gloves".
    Ukraine is resisting with terrorist methods both on land and at sea.
    Unequal conditions.
    But it seems no one is going to recognize Ukraine as a terrorist state.
    It is enough to completely demolish the Ukrainian ports and everything will fall into place.
    1. +10
      11 January 2025 13: 35
      It is enough to completely demolish the Ukrainian ports and everything will fall into place.

      And it is possible to completely destroy a decent port in only two ways: 1) with heavy iron and mining of the water area during a massive raid; 2) with a tactical nuclear strike.
      1. +5
        12 January 2025 00: 45
        Golden words! But it is not the ports that need to be demolished, but Western Ukraine. And the Durkain population should be destroyed with conventional weapons.
        In 30 years, a second generation of "non-brothers" has been growing up there. Why feel sorry for them - they have proven their hostility more than once. And a good enemy is a dead enemy!
        1. 0
          12 January 2025 19: 40
          And destroy the Durkain population with conventional weapons.

          Well, that's too much. The population is mostly crazy everywhere, be it in Ukraine, Russia or the USA. The population depends on the TV. And western Ukraine should remain western and let the Galicians live there. The border should be according to the 1939 map.
        2. 0
          20 January 2025 18: 03
          Well, unfortunately, it's unlikely to come to that))) Although the occasion was just great recently. I'm talking about Bender's march with torches in Western Ukraine. If Stalin were in our Supreme Commander's place, I don't doubt for a second that during that march a device with a cluster warhead would have arrived. And so, with our softness, who hasn't gone on an excursion to Kiev from the European leadership. It seems we haven't realized that you can't fight in white gloves when you're dealing with those who dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and cut out entire continents under the knife.
    2. +21
      11 January 2025 19: 06
      What "white gloves"?

      Don't shoot the pianist - he plays as best he can.

      At the start of the Central Military District, the ground component of the Russian Armed Forces numbered 375 thousand people. 150 thousand were sent to the Outskirts - this was generally all that could be gathered from the bins. Although for such a scale, 10+ times more were needed. Over the past 3 years, at least 500 thousand people have left all types of security agencies (killed, discharged due to health reasons, captured), as a result, despite all the efforts to mobilize, attract contract soldiers, use prisoners, the Russian Armed Forces today do not have even half the necessary forces to begin truly serious offensive operations. Hence all this endless tit-smacking, when the occasional successful attack of a platoon or company is reported in the media as a mega-breakthrough, and when these several dozen people run into enemy defenses and roll back with losses, they modestly keep quiet about it. Until the next "mega-offensive". To be fair, the other side is acting in roughly the same style.
      Therefore, as Churchill said about the confrontation between the Austrians and Italians during WWI,

      the opponents, due to their worthlessness, turned out to be quite worthy of each other

      - this was about the "10th battle on the Isonzo River" - what is not "the decisive liberation of Donbass in 2023-24", the pace is about the same.
      1. 0
        12 January 2025 00: 59
        One megaton munition to the Western fool - and the spirit will be out of the toad. The intelligence of the commander-in-chief will ruin Russia. You will say: "But what about the border Poland and the rest?" When they supplied weapons to the Banderites, they did not ask our permission. So Russia does not owe anyone. Next time they will think with their heads.
        Or they will die. The best means of persuasion in the world is the threat of total destruction. We must be tougher with them. And act meaner! Because:

        When living with wolves, you have to howl like a wolf!
    3. L_L
      +12
      12 January 2025 00: 10
      To completely demolish Ukrainian ports, you need a Macedonian, not a chicken.
      He withdrew troops from Kyiv, gave up Chernigov, Sumy, Kherson, because they did not fit in it.
      It's his fault that the army is now storming one hummock a day.
    4. +6
      12 January 2025 03: 04
      Russia is conducting ground military operations, even with "white gloves".

      Yes, there are no more "white gloves", they were only at the beginning. There are simply not as many resources as needed for a conventional war with NATO. Even with NATO's proxy - Ukraine.
  4. +24
    11 January 2025 13: 35
    Why the Black Sea Fleet Lost to the Ukrainian "Mosquitoes"

    It was not the Black Sea Fleet that lost, but the Moscow Kremlin.
    How can one fight if there is no goal, no strategy, and in tactics there are extremes and scurrying. Who is the Russian Federation fighting in the SVO in Ukraine if it is not written or designated anywhere who the enemy is.

    The "elite" of the Russian Federation is not interested in the future of the Russian people, this "elite" is already NATO. Yeltsin left behind chicks that grew into predators. The "biting off pieces" tactic is the Army's own tactic for survival, when the political leadership plays games to the detriment of the country's interests. The "elite" is looking for how to conclude a peace treaty on Ukraine on any losing terms for the Russian Federation, but on terms that do not lead to the infringement of their property and power. The "elite" of the Russian Federation has shown its weakness and now NATO will finish off the Russian Federation to the end together with the "elite", which will not have time to escape.

    NATO has a stated goal with regard to the Russian Federation. The liquidation of Russia as a state and its dismemberment into small entities. The Black Sea Fleet is just a private matter.
    1. +6
      11 January 2025 13: 41
      Absolutely right.
    2. +4
      11 January 2025 16: 34
      It's sad! But I have to agree.
  5. +5
    11 January 2025 13: 36
    Quote: prior
    It is enough to completely demolish the Ukrainian ports and everything will fall into place.

    How will this help against the BEKs, the main strike force of the Ukrainians in the Black Sea. They don't need ports at all
    1. +2
      11 January 2025 16: 08
      Quote: Colonel Kudasov
      They don't need ports at all.

      But they need access to the sea, and if they are deprived of this access to the sea, then the problem is solved.
      1. +2
        11 January 2025 19: 34
        Quote: guest
        Quote: Colonel Kudasov
        They don't need ports at all.

        But they need access to the sea, and if they are deprived of this access to the sea, then the problem is solved.

        They can leave from the ports of Romania and Bulgaria. And also on the carrier vessel.
        1. -2
          12 January 2025 01: 34
          Quote: Mish
          They can leave from ports in Romania and Bulgaria.

          But this will already be a direct war of NATO against us.
      2. +6
        11 January 2025 22: 19
        The BEC can be launched from a trailer from almost any beach. Why does it need a port?
        1. -4
          12 January 2025 01: 06
          It is necessary to kill the entire "personnel", including the school and kindergarten "Hitler Youth". So that there would be no one to launch the BEK into the water. And this will not be genocide, but denazification, since in 30 years there are no normal people left on Durcaine.
  6. +1
    11 January 2025 13: 46
    Because the level of training, technological backwardness and ossified experience was approximately the same as that of Budyonny and his cavalry before Guderian’s tank armada.
    1. +14
      11 January 2025 14: 13
      Budyonny had faith and devotion to the people of the Soviet Union. Who in the leadership has it now? Prigozhin's rebellion clearly showed how quickly they flee abroad. Comparing Budyonny with Guderian is incorrect, does not correspond to the truth. There is no need to copy, impose cliches of the Russian liberals about the bad Soviet Union and its leaders. Write the truth.
      1. -3
        11 January 2025 15: 14
        What does Budyonny's faith and devotion to the people of the Soviet Union have to do with it, and how did his cavalry help repel Guderian's tank wedges? Who in the leadership does not believe in or is not loyal to the Russian Federation? Who are THESE who quickly fled abroad, and what is their relationship to the leadership? It is the comparison of Budyonny with Guderian that speaks of the backwardness of military and modern thinking. And about the cliches of liberals, this is completely unimportant... you heard the bell, but you don't know where it is... The conversation is over.....
        1. +4
          11 January 2025 15: 43
          cavalry should not repel such wedges as infantry, but there are and were in 1941 other tasks for both infantry and cavalry and they fought successfully and heroically, now of course there are BMP and VTR for infantry, but in 1941-45 they were not there and artillery was often dragged by horses, so there is no need to repeat the fabrications of the damned enemies of the people, the rotten intelligentsia about Budyonny, which were invented in order to discredit the victory, no one went into an attack on tanks with sabers, Tukhachevsky was a real idiot with his ideas to build tens of thousands of obsolete tanks, but the wisdom of Stalin Voroshilov and Budyonny did not allow him to make this mistake, but Stalin and Voroshilov worked on creating the weapon of victory, the IS-2 1 T34, modern and the best guns and aircraft for that time, which brought victory closer
          1. -1
            14 January 2025 11: 32
            At the beginning of the war we had tanks and very good ones. No worse than Hitler's. But the trouble was, they were not supplied with fuel and the soldiers, having used up the fuel, simply abandoned them and were captured.
            1. +1
              14 January 2025 11: 55
              there were some pretty good KVs in small quantities, mostly outdated Tukhachevsky tanks, but the Germans also had bad tanks back then, the failures at the start of the war were obvious and not for the first time the reasons
              1 military officials bureaucrats lacking initiative cowardly performers, mainly caring about their own asses, and not about the benefit of the cause, and also thieving, a typical example are admirals Galler Alafuzov Stepanov and Kuznetsov, although Stalin imprisoned them after the war, and he had to imprison the generals immediately in 1941 until he saturated the troops with talented and smart military leaders, Zhukov and Budyonny were not afraid for their asses, but even repeatedly argued with Stalin and defended his point of view for the benefit and preservation of the army and for the sake of victory. And now the bureaucrats from the Navy have scattered frigates and corvettes across closed seas where they are obviously not needed and are hiding in bases .... but they will not lift a finger to correct the situation,
              2 low morale of the army, soldiers were disoriented and surrendered, only after the order Order No. 227, everything changed
              3 stupid deployment plans and regulations developed by Tukhachevsky,
              4 suddenness and echeloned attack by an experienced, battle-hardened, motivated German army, if the ideas of Trump-Simonians are implemented now, then in 5 years the same motivated, state-of-the-art, experienced Ukrainian fascist army will attack Russia and it will be Syria 2024 = Russia 2030, because in these same five years, the corporators, bureaucrats, and corrupt officials will try to destroy the entire army and navy of the Russian Federation, for example, they will saturate Sevastopol and Baltiysk with new frigates and ... they will be destroyed by the first strike of the enemy in 5 minutes, like the fleet of Syria 2024, and the RPKSN will not be able to go to sea because there are only a few frigates and corvettes in the north and Kamchatka
        2. +8
          11 January 2025 16: 17
          Budyonny never carried out cavalry attacks on tanks, this is nothing more than a liberal cliché. The same as Zhukov's victory in the Battle of Stalingrad. History can be studied from films and memoirs, but there is little truth there.
          1. -2
            13 January 2025 11: 29
            Do you use a time machine or immortality to study history?
      2. +11
        11 January 2025 15: 24
        Guderian is a theoretician and practitioner of tank troops. You can't take that away from him.

        Budyonny was good for his time, Guderian for his...

        Budyonny's personal valor cannot be questioned by anyone, because S.M. is a full holder of the St. George Cross and the St. George Medal as a soldier and an outstanding commander of the civil war.
      3. -5
        12 January 2025 01: 29
        Do you really believe that Prigozhin was not staged?
        1. 0
          13 January 2025 11: 33
          The scheme is too complicated for our top management to stage such a production. Here, everyone still can't stop lining up. And you're talking about some super-complex production with a march on Moscow and a plane crash
        2. +2
          14 January 2025 15: 03
          Prigozhin was the first to notice the betrayal and lies at the top, for which he and his guys are paying with their lives. The top brass of the army and the military-industrial complex would hardly have allowed this betrayal and lies to become obvious to Putin. Putin is being lulled by lies. I do not believe that Prigozhin himself died. He was killed and it was very profitable and convenient for someone at the top.
    2. +10
      11 January 2025 15: 10
      Budyonny did not attack Guderian with cavalry, no need to blah-blah... the USSR had more than enough tanks at the beginning of the war, yes, many of them were outdated, but tanks... the enemy was met by mechanized corps, not cavalry divisions... yes, it was extremely unsuccessful and the concept of mechanized corps was wrong. and it was subsequently abandoned. but NO ONE was going to stop the enemy with cavalry in 1941... (I don't mean plugging individual holes, but mass use)...

      On the channel "Native Council of Workers" there is a good 5-hour film dedicated to Operation Bagration, which for an hour tells about the catastrophe of 41, about the mechanized corps and the reasons for the defeats of the summer of 1941.

      Guderian's tanks near Kashira were indeed stopped by Belov's cavalry corps... but they did not act on horseback with drawn sabers, as you depict here... but as an infantry unit with artillery support.
      1. -5
        11 January 2025 15: 20
        Here is another inadequate, where did you read that Budyonny attacked Guderian's tanks with cavalry, you didn't even understand the meaning of the question... here we are talking about something completely different, about the backwardness of military thought among retired generals, who were completely unprepared for modern technological combat, which included combat and reconnaissance drones, especially sea drones, which they had never even seen in their lives and did not know what they were capable of. They had to think of this to bring the cruiser Moskva to the shores of Odessa...
        1. +4
          11 January 2025 16: 29
          Your comment from 13.46 can only be understood this way. To understand the meaning of the question, you need to ask meaningful questions. In 1941, the cavalry was an integral part of the Red Army, and highly mobile, the horses were left to horse breeders and the soldiers fought like infantrymen, as they did already during World War I. In general, I agree with you, if the soldiers deserve respect, then the planning and implementation of the SVO inspires uncertainty.
    3. +3
      11 January 2025 19: 59
      like Budyonny with his cavalry, in front of Guderian's tank armada

      Have you ever heard the term - KMG? Horse-mechanized group? No? Read about their actions, even at the end of the war, for the sake of interest...
      1. -2
        11 January 2025 21: 29
        You also did not understand the essence... Nobody argues about the exploits and actions of the cavalry, as well as the traction force and its contribution to the victory.... We are talking about the brains of Budyonny, who, due to his age and past victories in the Civil War, was no longer able to think innovatively before and during the Great Patriotic War, he did not understand anything and did not understand technology, especially aviation. I think that he even suffered deeply that he was not in the leading roles and his past glory and combat experience were far behind and, in principle, no one needed him. I imagined how Budyonny's cavalry rushed head-on across the field with sabers drawn against the armadas of German tanks on the Kursk Bulge. Horses there mainly pulled guns. And how could Budyonnov compete with the younger and more advanced Zhukov, Rokossovsky Rybalko..., his time was simply gone, he was already just a wedding marshal. Now the combat commander of the regiment and even the company commander knows and understands more what and how to fight than many parquet generals who are simply no longer in the know, their knowledge, tactics and methods of conducting military operations are simply outdated and unacceptable in the current conditions... Therefore, without thinking about the consequences, they sent the cruiser Moskva to the shores of Odessa and Ochakov to be shot, where there was a lair of English unmanned boats, which subsequently terrorized the Sevastopol Bay with the ships of the Black Sea Fleet...
        1. +4
          12 January 2025 01: 20
          And who in those distant years understood technology? Stalin accepted Russia in 1924 as the most backward country in Europe. And in 30 years he managed to obtain nuclear weapons.
          And he didn’t live to take his first step into space for 8 years.
          And what about the victory in WWII? "... You, the current ones, come on!..."
  7. +11
    11 January 2025 14: 01
    The problems of the Russian Navy are a particular matter.
    The essence of the problem is in the personality of V. Putin, who, without an economic base and prospects for its development, in Munich threw down the gauntlet to the technologically developed West!
    1. -2
      11 January 2025 14: 16
      What should have been done? Kneel before the Banderites? Maybe even help them oppress Crimea and Donbass? And give Kaliningrad to the technologically advanced West
      1. +9
        11 January 2025 15: 04
        attacking a hedgehog with your bare butt is not a good idea... no matter what the purpose of it...

        second, your statement could be considered if Putin came to power in 2021 and received all this inheritance... but he had 24 years of his personal power and 8 years for specific preparation after 2014, when it became clear to many where everything was going... what was happening in Russia for 8 years before the start of the SVO??? parades, plywood Reichstags, air darts, football, Olympics...

        and yes, please don't make this nonsense that we couldn't do it in 2014, but we're prepared for 2022...

        Putin recently admitted that it should have happened earlier and that he should have prepared BETTER...

        and not "reign lying on their side" on the planet of pink ponies...which they do not want to leave even after almost three years of THEIR war
      2. +5
        11 January 2025 17: 36
        Of course we need to defeat the damned ukrofascists in Ukraine, but..... as a true patriot I must note that the reason for the technological lag of the Russian Federation from the West is the outdated system of governance
        1 bureaucratic pressure from all prohibiting controlling bodies and corruption inextricably linked with these enemies of the people bureaucrats
        2 high taxes largely plundered and eaten up by parasitic bureaucrats
        conclusion, the economy resembles a feudal one as in Gogol's play The Inspector General and is ineffective, entrepreneurial activity is inhibited, the population's potential is not used to the proper extent
      3. -4
        11 January 2025 19: 53
        Quote: Colonel Kudasov
        Kneel before the Banderites? Maybe even help them oppress Crimea and Donbass? And give Kaliningrad to the technologically advanced West

        Just don't interfere. Ukraine itself would never have decided to attack. And now the prospects of defeating it are close to zero. Yes, there will be some kind of agreement, they will give us some regions, but overall half will remain in the West.
        1. +2
          12 January 2025 08: 53
          Ukraine itself would never have dared to attack

          Yes, to begin with, they would strangle the rebellious republics like kittens (in the literal sense of the word), and then, having accumulated even more strength, they would begin to arrange Kursk for us.
          1. 0
            12 January 2025 15: 06
            1. And they strangled Donbass for 8 years, while the "Petersburger", wherever he could, from all the "irons", was telling us that "Donbass is Ukraine"... That it is a "brotherly people"... And other heresy (I wonder, was it only he who dreamed that the khokhol was his "brother"? Or his whole gang of "advisers" with the mantra "Kyiv in three days"? Then it is group insanity, a psychiatrist is needed here, and not just one - a whole clinic.)...
            But here's the problem - the "optimization" of Tanya Golikova and her accomplice Skvortsova has turned healthcare into a "health-burial"...
            2.

            Tukhachevsky was a real idiot with his ideas to build tens of thousands of obsolete tanks

            Vladimir, it was not an idea, but a statement, a concept, if you will, that - "The next war will be a war of motors. Mechanized corps,,, with landing troops on armor... for cover...) - almost verbatim...
            That's what my dad saw when he met the Germans in June 41, their tank wedges with infantry behind our positions...
            3. Which of the current "degenerals" from the "Augean stables" named after Khuzhenotovych could think like this, working for the future?
            Or maybe S. Chemezov from Rostec?... Or his deputy Artyakov? (a shady individual...) I met him personally, at a meeting with Vitaly Andreevich Vilchik, director of the SKP (VAZ assembly and body production), when this individual was "ruling" the plant with his gang of thugs...
            4.

            especially sea ones, which they had never even seen in their lives and did not know what they were capable of.

            Some time ago, a storm washed up on the Crimean coast such a "boat" (the photo was either here or on VO - I don't remember exactly)... Yes, no one knew what it was. But to figure out specifically - who needs it? Some kind of boat...
            And these "little boats" brought the entire fleet "to its knees", locking it in the bases... (from which this government "rose" for so long)...
            1. -1
              14 January 2025 12: 28
              1 Russia was not ready in 2014 for a confrontation with the West, the Security Council considered all the pros and cons, predicted sanctions in 2014, they would have simply immediately cut off all Russian citizens' salaries and pensions, because there were no world cards but visas, the Russian Federation's spuntik group consisted of two satellites that had long since served their time and flew exclusively with God's help and could fall at any moment, exports were not prepared for distribution to China, calculations and concepts were not prepared, and this means sanctions = famine, over these 8 years, rearmament has begun, communication between companies is now not via mobile phones like in 2014, the fighting spirit and enthusiasm of the Ukrainian fascists was deliberately promoted by 2014, and by 2022 it has seriously decreased
              2 Tukhachev's mistake was not in understanding the importance of mechanization but in the extensive bureaucratic understanding of solving problems, he wanted to increase quantity at the expense of quality, he did not understand that the development of military technologies was very fast, and this was shown in 1941, unfortunately, Tukhachev's tanks turned out to be useless humps for crews and the KV tanks, developed under the leadership of Stalin and Vroshilov, were few in number, if in 1930 they had made a lot of bad tanks, they would not have found money for the KV and would have ruined the industrial potential of the USSR, where would they have made the KV and T34 IS2 if it had not been for

              metallurgy, steel rolling mills, workers well-fed and motivated?
              Stalin writes about this directly

              Letter to K.E. Voroshilov
              23 March 1930 year

              Source:

              Stalin I.V. Works. - T. 17. - Tver: Scientific publishing

              Severnaya Korona Company, 2004, pp. 333–334.

              The end of the text on the corresponding page of the printed original of the specified edition is indicated in red font in square brackets

              Owls secretly.

              To Comrade Voroshilov.

              I received both documents, both the explanatory note of Comrade Tukhachevsky and the "considerations" of the Headquarters. You know that I respect Comrade Tukhachevsky very much as an unusually capable comrade. But I did not expect that a Marxist, who should not be torn away from the ground, could defend such a fantastic "plan" torn away from the ground. His "plan" lacks the main thing, i.e., does not take into account the real possibilities of the economic, financial, and cultural order. This "plan" fundamentally violates any conceivable and permissible proportion between the army, as a part of the country, and the country as a whole, with its limits of economic and cultural order. The "plan" deviates to the point of view of "purely military" people, who often forget that the army is a derivative of the economic and cultural state of the country.

              How could such a “plan” arise in the head of a Marxist who had gone through the school of civil war?

              I think that Tukhachevsky's "plan" is the result of a fashionable passion for "leftist" phrases, the result of a passion for paper, bureaucratic maximalism. That is why analysis is replaced in it by "playing with numbers", and the Marxist perspective of the growth of the Red Army is fantasy.

              To “carry out” such a “plan” would certainly mean ruining both the country’s economy and the army. This would be worse than any counter-revolution.

              It is gratifying that the Red Army Headquarters, despite all the danger of temptation, clearly and definitely distanced itself from Comrade Tukhachevsky’s “plan.”

              23 March 1930 city

              Yours I. Stalin To comrade Tukhachevsky.

              Copy to comrade Voroshilov.

              The attached letter addressed to Comrade Voroshilov was written by me in March 1930. It refers to 2 documents: a) your “note” on the deployment of our army with the number of divisions being increased to 246 or 248 (I don’t remember exactly); b) “considerations” of our headquarters with the conclusion that your “note” requires, in fact, increasing the army to 11 million souls, that this “note” is therefore unrealistic, fantastic, and impossible for our country.

              In my letter to Comrade Voroshilov, as you know, I mainly joined the conclusions of our headquarters and spoke out sharply negatively about your “note”, recognizing it as the fruit of “clerical maximalism”, the result of “playing numbers”, etc. .

              That was the case two years ago.

              Now, two years later, when some unclear questions have become clearer for me, I must admit that my assessment was too harsh, and the conclusions of my letter were not correct in everything.

              Firstly, a close acquaintance with the case showed that the figure of “11 million souls” does not follow from your “note”, because what your “note” may require and what it really requires is an army of 8 million souls. Of course, the 8 millionth army is also unrealistic, unnecessary and overwhelming for our country, at least in the next three to four years (not to mention the first five-year plan). But 8 million is still not 11 million.

              Secondly, it is undoubted that the nature of the armies that has changed in recent years, the growth of military transport equipment and the development of aviation, the appearance of mechanized units and the corresponding reorganization of the army [c.461] create a completely new environment, depriving the old debates about the large number of divisions of their decisive importance . There is no need to prove that it is not the number of divisions, but, above all, their quality, their saturation with technology that will now play a decisive role. I think you will agree with me that a 6-million-strong army, well equipped with equipment and organized in a new way, will be enough to defend the independence of our country on all, without exception, fronts. And such an army is more or less within our power. It seems to me that my letter to Comrade Voroshilov would not have been so harsh in tone and would have been free from some incorrect conclusions about you if I had transferred the argument to this new base. But I did not do this, since, obviously, the problem was not yet clear enough for me.

              Do not scold me that I undertook to correct the defects of my letter with some delay.

              7.V.32 g.

              With communist greetings

              3 I will remain silent on your following points, I do not openly endorse our bureaucrats and officials, which I write about often, but as for Chemezov personally, I am not familiar with him, maybe he is a good person, and if I do not know him, then I will remain silent, so as not to slander a decent person indiscriminately
              1. +1
                15 January 2025 16: 02
                I don’t know Chemezov, maybe he’s a good person, and if I don’t know him, I’ll keep quiet so as not to slander a decent person without reason.

                A worthy point of view of a decent person.
                I am also not familiar with him (I was talking about his deputy - Artyakov and his "team of thugs" from "Rostec"). How they destroyed the plant is a topic for another conversation, but judging by his interview in the media, where he calls drones "cheap Chinese children's toys" (I did not save the link, but the level of thinking is clear). And "a good and decent person" is not a profession or a position, however.
                Yes, they were sold in "Children's World", maybe cheap, for him... Until they were banned from being launched in some areas...
                I'll say more - they were the only ones... On store shelves, and not in the Russian Armed Forces.
                What they represent in a different guise was shown by the SVO...
                And regarding I.V. Stalin's note...
                Far from being a tanker - a different specialty, a different military occupational specialty. Everything I know - I heard from my father, although he couldn't stand such stories... But a front-line soldier has (or rather, had...) the right to a personal opinion, authoritative for a kid, right?
                There are plenty of "couch potatoes" here who stick their opinions into things and things that don't matter, without any understanding of the topic - and emotions are a bad advisor...
                All the best to you!
                1. +1
                  15 January 2025 16: 10
                  Quote: Dingo
                  All the best to you!

                  thank you and all the best to you, it's nice to meet a logical and objective expert
                  1. +1
                    15 January 2025 17: 16
                    Vladimir, today's news, or rather, morning news, from 15.01.25/XNUMX/XNUMX from the resource "Tsargrad".
                    1. +1
                      15 January 2025 18: 29
                      thank you, it's high time to soak the Ukrainian fascists in Lviv toilets
          2. -4
            12 January 2025 18: 25
            Logically, something doesn't add up for you. Ukraine wasn't stuffed with weapons until we started the SVO. Apart from 50 Javelins, which can hardly be called offensive weapons, nothing like that was sold to the Ukrops. What would they have used to attack Kursk, rusty Soviet tanks, which they successfully sawed up for scrap metal? You're writing nonsense, they weren't even able to recapture Donbass, and now they're going to attack Russia as an aggressor :) it's funny.
            1. +1
              13 January 2025 12: 11
              They weren't even able to retake Donbass, and now they're going to attack Russia as an aggressor:) funny

              - Comrade, wake up, you've missed the stop. Everyone from Merkel to CIA Director W. Burns has already confessed that while they were slowing down Minsk-2, they were secretly supplying weapons and training the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
          3. 0
            24 January 2025 18: 07
            Quote: Sergey Kozlovsky
            Ukraine itself would never have dared to attack

            Yes, to begin with, they would strangle the rebellious republics like kittens (in the literal sense of the word), and then, having accumulated even more strength, they would begin to arrange Kursk for us.

            Firstly, it is the right of the state to establish order on its territory. Tomorrow, some Tatarstan will declare Tatar the state language and declare secession, and what then?
            Secondly, even if they had attacked Kursk, public opinion in Europe would have clearly considered them aggressors with all the ensuing consequences, and Russia would have received the moral right to beat them with all available means.
    2. -1
      11 January 2025 15: 02
      Quote: Mikhail L.
      The essence of the problem is in the personality of V. Putin, who, without an economic base and prospects for its development, in Munich threw down the gauntlet to the technologically developed West!

      So, how about the numerous threats to destroy our economy - did they work? Change the methodology.
      1. +4
        11 January 2025 15: 12
        Don't ask - don't harness

        Arrogance is not an argument! ;-(
        1. -5
          11 January 2025 15: 45
          Quote: Mikhail L.
          Arrogance is not an argument! ;-(

          That is, there is nothing to argue.
          1. +2
            11 January 2025 18: 45
            A small clarification: there is no one to object! ;-(
            1. -5
              11 January 2025 18: 47
              Quote: Mikhail L.
              A small clarification: there is no one to object

              That is, there is nothing to argue.
              1. +2
                11 January 2025 18: 57
                I don't argue with boors, leaving them the last word.. ;-(
                1. -4
                  11 January 2025 19: 07
                  Quote: Mikhail L.
                  I don't argue with boors, leaving them the last word.. ;-(

                  That is, there is nothing to argue.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        11 January 2025 20: 03
        Quote: Dart2027
        Quote: Mikhail L.
        The essence of the problem is in the personality of V. Putin, who, without an economic base and prospects for its development, in Munich threw down the gauntlet to the technologically developed West!

        So, how about the numerous threats to destroy our economy - did they work? Change the methodology.

        An economy in which everything is imported from China? Tomorrow, China will be put under pressure and it will cut off all supplies. And so, most banks no longer work with us, and large ports have refused to unload shadow tankers.
        1. -1
          11 January 2025 20: 58
          Quote: Mish
          An economy where everything is imported from China?

          In the "technologically advanced West" in general and in the USA in particular?
          1. +2
            11 January 2025 22: 42
            The West imports mainly consumer goods from China. But they have their own technologies, machines, equipment, airplanes, cars, electronics, etc., and they are better than the Chinese. Of course, they love Chinese toys for Christmas. Cheap, beautiful, works for a while, and after a couple of months, it's in the trash.

            Well, the Chinese have learned to make batteries very well. The West can produce everything else itself, it will just be a bit (already) more expensive. That is why the West is looking for someone to replace China, because they no longer want to work for a bowl of rice, and now they are bending their fingers. India is already rubbing its hands, but the West is in no hurry, they know these dancers well, so it will take a long time to negotiate.
            1. +2
              12 January 2025 07: 01
              Quote: OlegovichA
              And they have enough of their own technologies, machines, equipment, airplanes, cars, electronics, etc., and they are better than the Chinese ones.

              Quote: OlegovichA
              The West can produce everything else itself, it will just be a little (already) more expensive.

              So does it produce or can it produce? And there is also a question about can - to expand production is not such a simple task.
              1. -1
                12 January 2025 14: 14
                The West produces high-tech equipment and machine tools itself. Airplanes, as well as cars. Electronics, partly itself, partly in China. If necessary, expanding production will not be difficult. They have not lost technology, unlike us. They do not buy everything from China, as we do from the West, they produce their goods there. But they buy purely Chinese consumer goods.

                This is a serious task for us to expand production, because all the factories have been split up, the specialists have long since retired or are in the next world, we do not produce or develop equipment ourselves, and we have no experience with high-tech equipment, we have been buying it from the West all our lives, even entire factories, ready-made production lines. And they have it all left.
                1. +1
                  12 January 2025 14: 17
                  Quote: OlegovichA
                  The West produces high-tech equipment and machine tools itself. Airplanes as well as cars. Electronics are partly produced itself, partly in China.

                  The word is partially superfluous, and he himself only collects.

                  Quote: OlegovichA
                  They haven't lost technology, unlike us. They don't buy everything from China, like we do from the West, they produce their goods there.

                  I remember that when the question arose about creating our own factories for the production of computer components in the USA, a certain Steve Jobs explained on his fingers that it was impossible to do this.

                  Quote: OlegovichA
                  It is a serious task for us to expand production, because

                  We unfold it, we don’t print papers.
                  1. -1
                    12 January 2025 14: 59
                    Manufactures and assembles. I work in a gas structure and we have a ton of all kinds of equipment. We tried to buy everything Western, and for example Italian soldering machines. The frames are made in Italy, the hydraulics are German, the electronics are Japanese and Korean, but also Italian. Of Chinese there are probably only bolts, screws and buttons.

                    All equipment production is assembly.
                    I don’t know of a single example of equipment or technology that performs a full manufacturing cycle, from metal or composite casting to assembly and packaging.

                    Steve Jobs did not deceive you. Only it is not about the USA specifically, but about the West. And it is COLLECTIVE. No country in the world can be completely independent and self-sufficient. But the collective West can and does produce high-tech products. Someone knows how to make engines, someone knows how to make transmissions, someone knows how to make electronics, someone knows how to stamp metal, someone knows how to make textiles. And here you have a car at the end.

                    We are shifting our purchases from West to East. Unfortunately.
                  2. 0
                    12 January 2025 15: 26
                    Although, Jobs did lie. The main reason why the cores are not fully produced and assembled in the US is the price of the final product. In this case, the product will either be more expensive or the margin will be smaller. And Americans want to have 200-300% for each of their products:)
                    1. 0
                      12 January 2025 16: 35
                      Quote: OlegovichA
                      Electronics Japan and Korea

                      Only last year in Korea they started building a chip manufacturing plant, so the basis is Chinese. And in other respects the question is what was made in Europe and what was assembled from imported parts.

                      Quote: OlegovichA
                      We are expanding our purchases from West to East.

                      which produces everything necessary.
                      1. +2
                        12 January 2025 17: 10
                        What specific chips are you writing about, please clarify?

                        Hynix, Samsung doesn't mean anything to you?
                        And the largest manufacturer of semiconductors is Taiwanese TSMC. The founder is a Taiwanese emigrant, a US citizen, graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and initially worked for Texas Instruments. With the support of the US, he opened his company in Taiwan. Texas, by the way, still exists and has a good position.
                        What basis are you talking about, I don't know. Have you read some fairy tales? Maybe about the basis for producing semiconductors using 5 nm technology, which only the Dutch ASML deals with?

                        These are questions for you, you don't seem to understand the topic.

                        China can produce all the necessary +/- consumer goods independently. India can do the same, they are no worse than the Chinese, and in some ways even better, they will learn.

                        Unfortunately, we produce little ourselves, and China can screw us over at any moment for the sake of the golden billion market.
                      2. -2
                        12 January 2025 17: 39
                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        And the largest manufacturer of semiconductors is Taiwanese TSMC. The founder is a Taiwanese emigrant, a US citizen, who graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and initially worked for Texas Instruments.

                        That's right... Yes, it was invented in the USA, but then all production was moved to Asia.
                      3. +1
                        12 January 2025 18: 13
                        Because the labor force is cheaper there. But they can also set it all up at home, it will just be more expensive for the end consumer, which will reduce demand. That's why they are looking towards India, where the labor market is cheap and the population is huge.

                        But we cannot establish production of high-tech products because we do not have the material base, no specialists (I do not mean Uncle Vasya at the machine). Therefore, we have to expand procurement, not production, from West to East, losing quality and money.
                      4. 0
                        12 January 2025 19: 12
                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        Because the labor force is cheaper there. But they can also set it all up at home, just

                        First, you will need to create your own workforce. Then you will need to deploy enterprises for production, and this is not one plant, but a complete technological chain. Then solve a lot of organizational issues to set up work. And you can't do all this in a week, this is work for years and years.
                      5. 0
                        12 January 2025 19: 38
                        They have enough labor force, and if not, then there are those willing from Mexico... and a little more.
                        Enterprises are expanding like matchsticks, fortunately there is money, and if more money is needed, then there is a printing press, both in the US and in Europe, which the whole world really likes.
                        Of course, this cannot be done in a week, so they are already starting to make progress on this issue.

                        Apple assembled about 14% of all iPhones in India, worth $14 billion, according to data for the last fiscal year, which ended in March 2023, Bloomberg wrote, citing its sources. A year earlier, according to the agency's sources, the volume of production in India was $7 billion.

                        Yet India made just 2021% of all iPhones shipped in 1. Apple is accelerating efforts to reduce its long-standing reliance on China amid rising geopolitical tensions.

                        The ice has broken, ladies and gentlemen.

                        Of course, you have the right to consider the West stupid, but unfortunately this is not so. We live in a capitalist world, and they are pros at this. Therefore, China will suffer the fate of the USSR, if it does not become more accommodating, and not bite the hand that feeds. It is the West that raised China, it is the West that feeds it, China is just their workers who are starting to organize strikes. In this case, they are already starting to hire other workers in order to fire these ones as painlessly as possible.
                        And who will need Chinese consumer goods then? Russia, Iran, North Korea and poor African countries? A so-so market. And the West will have the same thing, only with a Made in India tag.
                      6. 0
                        12 January 2025 19: 55
                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        They have enough labor force, and if not, then there are plenty of people from Mexico willing to f... and a little more.

                        Well, yes - Mexicans are just highly skilled workers. What did you say about "Vasya"? They are as far from Vasya as they are from China.

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        Apple Assembles About 14% of All iPhones in India

                        Collected. And India also has its own mind and is not going to become someone's puppet.

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        It was the West that raised China

                        To his own detriment. "The ice has broken, ladies and gentlemen." © However, this has happened before.

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        China faces the fate of the USSR

                        Their Gorbachev spent 15 years under arrest until he died.
                      7. +2
                        12 January 2025 20: 35
                        And in China, are they all highly qualified? :) You have too much of an opinion about Uncle Vasya. We are very far behind in terms of technology. For example, we need operators for heavy equipment. Uncle Vasya, for example, can operate an old Belarus tractor without any problems. But if you tell him to cut it, he won't get a clue what's going on here. The same goes for production. He's good at an old lathe, but it's hard to find a specialist for a modern CNC machine. We've fallen behind the West. And Mexicans are definitely better than Uzbeks and Tajiks, they work for Sinopec, including as technicians. But Gazprom only hires Uzbeks and Tajiks to dig with a shovel, and our organization doesn't hire them at all, because they don't even know how to dig properly.

                        Assembly lines do not require highly skilled workers, the work there is not difficult. But the West has technical specialists, engineers, and management.

                        India dreams of taking China's place. No one wants to be a puppet, but India needs technology and money from the West.

                        They also brought the USSR down on their own heads, providing technologies and entire factories. But never mind, they dealt with us too.

                        What will happen to the current Chinese Gorbachev is still unknown.
                      8. +1
                        12 January 2025 21: 44
                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        And in China, are they all highly qualified?:)

                        And how many years have high-tech products been manufactured there? They have managed to prepare.

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        We have fallen behind the West. And Mexicans are definitely better than Uzbeks and Tajiks, they work Sinopec

                        Are you just yesterday's emigrants or something?

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        What will happen to the current Chinese Gorbachev is still unknown.

                        He died a long time ago.

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        But it's okay, they dealt with us too.

                        If it weren't for betrayal, they wouldn't have been able to cope with anyone.
                      9. 0
                        12 January 2025 22: 23
                        And how many years in Mexico? Do you even know that the states in Mexico also have factories? Or do you know nothing at all, just need to write something?

                        And I repeat, highly skilled workers are not particularly needed, we need Vasyas at the machine. And if the Chinese managed, then the Indians can do it too. Moreover, India has an advantage, they have a higher level of English than the Chinese. And the Mexicans are excellent workers. How many times I have been on business trips to the USA and Canada, they are technically well prepared, they are not Uzbeks and Tajiks or migrants from Somalia.

                        In general, high-tech products have been produced in China for about 15-20 years. But in India, it has been a little less. For example, Samsung moved its production to India back in 2008.

                        Including yesterday's emigrants. At least the operators are hired directly from Mexico, and the technicians too. Here, no one will hire a Tajik as an operator for equipment worth a million greenbacks. Even Uncle Vasya needs to be tried to find one for modern equipment, it's not like waving levers and starting it with a blowtorch and a sledgehammer. And some of our specialists have fled, some to the SVO. Instead, there are the lowest strata of Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, who are not even able to start some kind of Liebherr. And it's hard to teach them, because they don't speak a word of Russian.

                        The old one is dead, the former one will die too, we are all mortal.

                        Betrayal does not arise out of nowhere.

                        A great civilization cannot be conquered from without until it destroys itself from within.

                        We ourselves destroyed the USSR. With our unwillingness to integrate into this capitalist world, not accepting it and imposing our own order, which was initially untenable and unrealizable.
                        China is now at a crossroads. To follow our road to collapse or to take its place (as you put it "puppet") and work closely with the West, but at the same time live richly and happily.
                      10. -1
                        12 January 2025 23: 06
                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        And how many years in Mexico? Are you even aware that the states in Mexico also have factories?

                        And these factories do either assembly or menial work. Or do you know nothing at all, you just need to write something?

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        And I repeat, highly skilled workers are not particularly needed, we need Vasyas at the machine. And if the Chinese managed it, then the Indians can do it too.

                        Are you proposing to produce high-tech products on old lathes? Which does not change the fact that India has its own interests.

                        Quote: OlegovichA
                        We ourselves destroyed the USSR. With our unwillingness to integrate into this capitalist world, not accepting it and imposing our own order, which was initially untenable and unrealizable.

                        So how is your integration going? Did you jump around shouting that we want to join Europe and how is life getting better?
                      11. +1
                        12 January 2025 23: 33
                        The same things are done there as in Chinese factories. I will repeat once again that all factories producing equipment are an assembly of components. So in Mexico, India, Vietnam, Thailand, there are such factories too. As well as factories producing components. It's just that there are more of them in China, because before there was cheap labor and a lot of hands. But now the West is transferring these productions, the strip that the Chinese no longer want to work for a bowl of rice, and they are still snapping.

                        Nobody works on old lathes anymore, except for basement fakes. To work on a CNC machine, an average specialty is enough, which is taught very well in Mexico, for example, but our vocational schools are a mess and were behind the times.

                        Unfortunately for you, this is not my integration. My integration was successful together with Gazprom and foreign companies in the gas industry. We received the best equipment, technology, money in the world, and were able to train people in new technologies. But Gazprom's current situation is sad.
                      12. 0
                        14 January 2025 12: 45
                        You are a technologic layman with brains washed by burnt Hollywood, CNC machines were used in the USSR in the 1980s and it is easier to work on them than on a lathe, if you want, it is possible to train any specialist in a working profession from Uncle Vasya in three months.... You only need money and desire, and an engineer can be trained in three years..... You remind me of Smerdyakov, stop blindly worshiping the West! You are a victim of Western propaganda and the corrupting influence of the West! Throw out your outdated Zipso method! Today you dance jazz and tomorrow you will sell out the Motherland!
                  3. 0
                    12 January 2025 17: 28
                    So now we have to partially switch to Chinese equipment. There are problems with it, it often produces defects, requires fine-tuning, constant maintenance at the service center. Better than ours made of Chinese crap, but much worse than Western models. And the same goes for equipment. Kat, Liebherr, Komatsu, Hyundai, are tens of times more reliable, they work like clockwork, while Chinese fakes from the factory need to be fine-tuned and constantly sent for repairs. I won't even mention our heavy equipment. And it's the same with almost everything.
                    I would gladly buy a Chinese children's toy, because the West doesn't make them like that anymore. But if it's something more serious, then I apologize.
    3. -2
      12 January 2025 01: 25
      The problem is in the personalities of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, in the communist ideology that turned out to be unviable. And now we need to survive, no matter what. However, in Russia it has never been any other way.
  8. +2
    11 January 2025 14: 19
    What kind of pop is such a parish.
  9. +13
    11 January 2025 15: 00
    the basis of everything is economics...what kind of science can there be if everything in the state is geared towards the export of resources and the import of goods...what place does science have here? That's right, none...

    furthermore, in addition to science, we need a production base... and instead of production we have pizzerias and shopping centers... and so on...

    the saddest thing is that there is no end in sight...and the only goal of Elita and the pseudo-patriots is to meet with Trump and try to somehow roll back to 2012...to continue to export resources, eat and party...including in the West, like the memorable New Year's party of Prokhorov and singers like Slava in Courchevel.

    for such a state the navy is really just an expensive toy...well, and a couple of ships for parades, to amuse the vanity of an elderly macho...
  10. +8
    11 January 2025 15: 19
    You just need to retire on time. And preferably a group one.
    Decision making requires clarity of mind, the ability to analyze and predict.
    What we see now is precisely inability and incompetence.
  11. +6
    11 January 2025 15: 42
    Why the Black Sea Fleet Lost to the Ukrainian "Mosquitoes"

    If Putin had acted at full strength from the very beginning of the SVO and taken the war seriously. None of this happened. What prevented Odessa and Nikolaev from being captured from the first days of the war? It was a strategic miscalculation by Gerasimov, who was unable to convince Putin to capture these cities. We were once again fooled with these Istanbul agreements. The Ukrainian regime needed time to mobilize the country and receive military equipment from the West... And we got bogged down in unnecessary chatter, withdrew troops from a number of regions and waited for negotiations...
    1. +7
      11 January 2025 16: 16
      It wasn't us who were fooled, but him.
      1. +2
        11 January 2025 17: 22
        Nobody fooled him, such statements are made for suckers. The ruling power has one task, to stay in power and preserve itself, which they are doing successfully. Ratification of the Istanbul Agreements would have led to the indignation of the Russian people, disobedience of the army and as a result the liberal power could have gone down the drain. That is why such a move as the cancellation of the Istanbul Agreements by British Prime Minister Johnson was used, there seems to have been a conspiracy here. The full text of the Istanbul Agreements has not yet been published. Why???
    2. -1
      11 January 2025 16: 37
      Peskov confirmed our readiness for negotiations. They must take place, the presidents will clarify their positions, and then we will find out what awaits us in the future, whether 2025 will be the end of the SVO or not.
      1. 0
        11 January 2025 17: 52
        Yesterday on VO Peskov said that the Kremlin is ready for negotiations, Trump also spoke about the upcoming meeting with the president. Judging by the minuses, I assume that Peskov and Trump came out with denials that the parties are preparing for negotiations. laughing
    3. +5
      11 January 2025 17: 06
      Gerasimov is a military man, he is an executor, he does what he is ordered to do. Putin is a politician, the President of the Russian Federation, the military is obliged to carry out his orders and decrees. You are pointing the finger in the wrong direction, the majority here are literate.
    4. +1
      11 January 2025 18: 17
      I wonder how Russian troops would have captured Odessa in 2022? How do you imagine storming a city with a million people? Our troops reached Kyiv in 2024, but did not storm it or even encircle it, but surrounded it in a semicircle. Is the blockade and storming of modern cities with a multi-million population even conceivable in military thought? The number of victims even from the lack of drinking water and food will be such that the entire world community will condemn it.
      1. -2
        12 January 2025 01: 36
        The US has done all sorts of things in the world.
        And they spat with relish on...the public!
    5. +1
      11 January 2025 18: 40
      Quote: Dust
      What prevented the capture of Odessa and Nikolaev from the first days of the war?

      After which the landing force that landed there would have been cut off and destroyed.
    6. -1
      11 January 2025 20: 05
      Quote: Dust
      Why the Black Sea Fleet Lost to the Ukrainian "Mosquitoes"

      If Putin had acted at full strength from the very beginning of the SVO and taken the war seriously. None of this happened. What prevented Odessa and Nikolaev from being captured from the first days of the war? It was a strategic miscalculation by Gerasimov, who was unable to convince Putin to capture these cities. We were once again fooled with these Istanbul agreements. The Ukrainian regime needed time to mobilize the country and receive military equipment from the West... And we got bogged down in unnecessary chatter, withdrew troops from a number of regions and waited for negotiations...

      We spent 2 months messing around with Mariupol, and you're talking about Odessa. Would you like it to be reduced to ruins?
      1. -6
        12 January 2025 01: 41
        I would like nothing to remain of Odessa.
        This is a hero city that squandered its glory. And for this it is subject to dissolution. Into a zone similar to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant exclusion zone.
        Let the earth rest from human shame!
    7. 0
      12 January 2025 15: 33
      How do you imagine this? We took small Mariupol with difficulty, and then there's Odessa and Nikolaev. Kherson is the only +/- big city that we took by storm, by a miracle, although we still had to leave it.
  12. -2
    11 January 2025 16: 04
    the fleet's problems are based on
    1 stupidity of admirals who do not accept the wise ideas of the "young school"

    As a counterargument to this assertion, the following was cited, for example:

    the joint passage of the British battleship HMS Resolution and the minelayer (destroyer) HMS Gleaner from England to Gibraltar in stormy conditions, which demonstrated that a heavy gunnery ship loses the ability to effectively fire its guns much faster than a destroyer can fire its mines:

    In the Bay of Biscay both ships were caught in a storm, and the Resolution, being in a critical situation due to the enormous pitching and the large quantity of water in the engine and boiler rooms, had to return. At the same time, the Gleaner continued on its way and arrived at Gibraltar. If at the moment of the storm both the above-mentioned ships had been hostile, there would have been no doubt about the outcome of their collision. The Resolution, swinging at 45°, would have been completely helpless against the Gleaner, which, of course, would not have considered it too inhumane to launch its mine into this ugly, rocking mass. A storm is the best condition for mine attacks, and it is necessary that the torpedo boats have full opportunity to take advantage of such conditions.
    — S.O. Makarov. Analysis of the elements that make up the combat force of ships.

    that is, until now, the supporters of the outdated theory of large ships have not come up with anything new since the 1th century, when the hero Admiral Makarov defeated them with indisputable arguments,
    2 The second reason for the focus on large surface ships is banal, it is the love of money, the embezzlement of funds for construction as well as the embezzlement of provisions and the operation of ships.

    tick fools and thieves, there is a reason for the failure of the black sea fleet in its own, and this story is repeated in 1905, in 1941 and now
    conclusion Grivel was right and now his ideas are getting worse as even smaller drones replace small ships

    findings
    1 stop laying down frigates and corvettes for 10-15 years
    2 stop bookmarking mrk
    3 bring all ships of the first and second ranks to the oceans to attack the Barents Sea and the Kamchatka part of the Pacific Ocean
    4 sell kuzya
    5 to establish the production of sea drones, counter-drone systems, and coastal-based aircraft
    6 continue the series of minesweepers and submarines

    point 1 2 6 are being fulfilled, frigates and corvettes are no longer being laid down, minesweepers and submarines are being built, but points 3 4 5 still need to be fulfilled,
    ......
    7 Is it possible to establish production of MPCs for closed seas and with anti-drone warfare equipment?
    1. 0
      11 January 2025 18: 46
      Quote: vladimir1155
      that is, until now, the supporters of the outdated theory of large ships have not come up with anything new since the 1th century, when the hero Admiral Makarov defeated them with indisputable arguments

      Did you break it?

      Quote: vladimir1155
      A storm is the best condition for mine attacks, and it is necessary that destroyers have full opportunity to take advantage of such conditions.

      That is, destroyers could attack large ships only under very specific conditions.

      Quote: vladimir1155
      1 stop laying down frigates and corvettes for 10-15 years
      2 stop bookmarking mrk

      And why is this?

      Quote: vladimir1155
      Is it possible to establish production of MPC for closed seas and with anti-drone warfare equipment?

      What's the point? MPCs are needed to protect the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet bases. This is where MRCs and corvettes adapted to the new realities are needed.
      1. 0
        11 January 2025 22: 33
        1 small but numerous destroyers shot all the Russian battleships and cruisers in Tsushima, which perished from holes below the KVL, there was no storm there
        2. The termination of construction of small missile ships is obvious due to their uselessness, and frigates and corvettes due to their high cost, while money is urgently needed for minesweepers, submarines, coastal-based aircraft and A100, and coastal strike aviation, satellites, unmanned aerial vehicles of all types, coastal missile systems, air defense and air defense

        3 mrks can be used somehow on closed seas and inland lakes and rivers, but they are definitely not needed on the ocean, mrks can be useful on the oceans, but according to synoptic requirements they are better used on closed seas, it is more convenient to easily navigate inland waterways between seas, and they do not need to go far there, and on the oceans, corvettes and frigates are optimal submarines, so they all need to be transferred there, and mrks, on the contrary, to closed seas
        4 what are corvettes adapted to new realities? I can't discuss what doesn't exist and it's unclear what it is, explain your vision, what did you mean
        1. 0
          12 January 2025 06: 58
          Quote: vladimir1155
          small but numerous destroyers shot all the Russian battleships and cruisers in Tsushima, which perished from holes below the KVL, there was no storm there

          But before that, they were shot at by Japanese battleships and cruisers. The destroyers only finished off the already incapacitated ships.

          Quote: vladimir1155
          2 the termination of construction of small missile ships is obvious due to their uselessness...
          3 mrk can be used somehow on closed seas and inland lakes and rivers, but they are definitely not needed on the ocean, mpc can be useful on the oceans, but according to synoptic requirements they are better used on closed seas

          So they should be built for the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Fleet.

          Quote: vladimir1155
          and the MPC, on the contrary, is on closed seas

          Initially, the MPCs were built to protect submarine bases from enemy submarines. Keeping larger ships there is an expensive pleasure, and a small anti-submarine vessel is quite suitable in terms of price-quality ratio.

          Quote: vladimir1155
          and frigates and corvettes because of their high cost at a time when money is urgently needed

          Now, when money goes to the SVO, yes, but then we need to develop everything comprehensively.

          Quote: vladimir1155
          4 What are corvettes adapted to new realities?

          Since small UAVs and unmanned aerial vehicles have become the main threat to ships in closed seas, the armament should be oriented towards countering such threats. That is, the maximum possible number of 30-mm cannons and 14,5-mm machine guns capable of firing at both air and sea targets, thermal imagers, short-range air defense with the maximum number of short-range missiles
          1. 0
            12 January 2025 22: 11
            Quote: Dart2027
            Since small UAVs and unmanned aerial vehicles have become the main threat to ships in closed seas, the armament should be oriented towards countering such threats. That is, the maximum possible number of 30-mm cannons and 14,5-mm machine guns capable of firing at both air and sea targets, thermal imagers, short-range air defense with the maximum number of short-range missiles

            I support, so we came to the conclusion that we need to create MPCs with anti-drone means as well as the drones themselves, I will add that we need to build many minesweepers and equip them with anti-drone means, this is Grivel's idea - many small but effective ships instead of single monsters

            Quote: Dart2027
            Initially, the MPCs were built to protect submarine bases from enemy submarines. Keeping larger ships there is an expensive pleasure, and a small anti-submarine vessel is quite suitable in terms of price-quality ratio.

            Well, in general we agreed that frigates and corvettes are expensive, I will add that the submarine radius around the submarine bases should extend to a radius of 1000 km, that is exactly why expensive frigates and corvettes should be deployed to the oceans and not uselessly kept in closed seas
            1. 0
              12 January 2025 23: 01
              Quote: vladimir1155
              Well, in general we agreed that frigates and corvettes are expensive, I will add that the area around the submarine bases should extend over a radius of 1000 km

              I don't quite mean that. Defense should be echeloned and the MPC is a short range, and corvettes and frigates are medium and long range. They are also not needed in closed seas.

              Quote: vladimir1155
              I support, so we came to the conclusion that we need to create an MPC with anti-cancer agents

              Not an MPC, but a corvette - there is simply no room to fit all this on an MPC.
              1. 0
                13 January 2025 08: 58
                Quote: Dart2027
                I don't quite mean that. Defense should be echeloned and the MPC is a short range, and corvettes and frigates are medium and long range. They are also not needed in closed seas.

                Quote: vladimir1155
                I support, so we came to the conclusion that we need to create an MPC with anti-cancer agents

                Not an MPC, but a corvette - there's simply no room to fit all this stuff on an MPC

                I agree though

                NSWT
                Weight, kg 25 (machine gun body)
                Crew (calculation), people 1
                Cartridge 12,7 x 108 mm
                Caliber mm 12,7

                Large-caliber machine guns can be shoved anywhere, several at a time, on MPKs, minesweepers, small missile ships, on dugongs and chamois
                1. 0
                  13 January 2025 09: 04
                  History of production
                  Designer KBP
                  Manufacturer Tulamashzavod
                  Years of production with 1980
                  Variants 2A42, 2A72
                  Features
                  Weight, kg 115
                  Length, mm 3027
                  Barrel length, mm 2400
                  Projectile 30x165 mm
                  Caliber mm 30
                  Operating principles of gas exhaust
                  Rate of fire
                  shots/min 550...800

                  115 kg can also be placed on the MPK, all of this is already available on the Karakurt and minesweepers
                2. 0
                  13 January 2025 19: 50
                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  Large-caliber machine guns can be shoved anywhere and in several pieces

                  It would be better if these were not machine guns on tripods, but full-fledged combat modules that weigh more. But if they can still be realistically placed on very small ships, then 4-6 AK-630 with magazines for ammunition and 24-32 air defense missiles will not fit in at all.

                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  115 kg can also be placed on the MPK, all of this is already available on the Karakurt and minesweepers

                  There is, but not enough. It's not so much about mass as about the availability of free space. Where to place it on the same Karakurt? If we extend it by 10 meters, then maybe.
                  1. 0
                    13 January 2025 20: 51
                    In general, I accept your logic, and design is the job of specialists
  13. +2
    11 January 2025 16: 53
    In Russia, everything is done by order.
    Was there an order to think? There was an order to execute.
    And the order “everyone shoot themselves” has not yet been approved, but is only in the development stage.
  14. 0
    11 January 2025 17: 47
    Let's say a group of unmanned boats secretly approaches the coast of Odessa region at night. A drone-repeater takes off from a catapult mounted on the leader...

    Guys, this is childish babble, with all due respect to the author. Nose picking. We must fight the cause: the aircraft carrier Britain must be sunk. No other way. Our victory must be crushing. Stunning. So that no one dares to apply sanctions without lifting them. Not to pollute our native Odessa with radiation. In recent days, new brutal sanctions have been imposed. I will tell you what will happen next: our tankers will be seized. In fact, this is a casus belli. And what will we counter with? Will we surrender? And the enemy is on the rise - we can’t respond with anything, we have cornered the Russian bear. All these tricks: back-ups with Baba Yagas, etc. are good in combination with everything else. A network of satellite reconnaissance, DRLO, etc. We have none of this. And we don’t expect to have any. There is no time, money or specialists to create it. But we have “Kuzkina Mat”. There is even a possibility that it will work, there will be no misfire. We must use what we have. Our fathers and grandfathers worked clearly. They created a nuclear shield for us. If we do nothing, the situation will worsen catastrophically. Everything is heading in that direction anyway. Only the further we go, the worse our starting positions will become. As the president said: "... if a fight is inevitable, we must strike first." I agree with him.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -2
      12 January 2025 01: 49
      Odessa has not been "home" for a long time now.
      All the relatives would have gone into the partisans long ago.
      But what doesn't exist, doesn't exist.
  15. +2
    11 January 2025 17: 51
    And negotiations with Trump will only lead to our shame and death. Incidentally, not only historical, but also, for many, physical.
  16. +1
    11 January 2025 17: 55
    I have the most powerful weapon and screw it up like that! It's unfathomable!
  17. +1
    11 January 2025 18: 12
    IMHO, it turns out that everything comes down to a more adequate feedback and response system?
    And what about the cheerful reports that we are defeating them everywhere, drowning them, destroying them, etc.? They are running, surrendering, rebelling, deserting, etc.?
    There are several reports of destruction of these boats every week...
  18. -1
    11 January 2025 18: 25
    I don't think any navy in the world, from a country that considers itself advanced in naval combat, would be prepared at this time for a massive attack by either sea or air drones. If the same number of sea drones were launched to attack the ships of the Royal Navy, the losses would be even greater. Are all frigates in NATO countries equipped with the appropriate weapons to repel attacks by sea drones?
    1. -5
      11 January 2025 18: 42
      Quote: Dormidontov_Dormidont
      I don't think any navy in the world, from a country that considers itself advanced in naval combat, would be prepared at this time for a massive attack by either sea or air drones.

      And the all-is-lost ones don't care. The main thing is to shout that all is lost.
    2. -1
      12 January 2025 01: 53
      Why wait for a drone attack?
      Nuclear weapons - into the heart of the enemy power. In the absence of the country, the problem of its BEC disappears.
  19. +2
    11 January 2025 18: 36
    If we lose to the enemy outright on the water, then we need to cut him off from the water by attacking on land. At the moment, I think so, which means Nikolaev and Odessa need to be returned under their native banners. Well, and then kick out the thieves and fat, useless leaders and speed up the development of naval strike weapons and, at the same time, protection from the same weapons. Otherwise, we will lose what we have and what has been built for years. Plus, modernize what has been built against the new realities of military operations.
    1. 0
      11 January 2025 20: 33
      Come on, if Kherson can still theoretically be taken, then a march on Nikolaev is simply sending to the slaughter, there is bare steppe there, which can be easily shot through, with the current accuracy of Ukrainian missiles, bombs and drones, advancing in that area is suicide.
    2. +2
      11 January 2025 21: 26
      Quote: Valera75
      If we lose to the enemy... Well, then we'll kick the thieves out and... Otherwise we'll lose what we have and what's been built for years.

      If 33 years ago they gave the country to thieves and squandered what had been built over the last 500 years, most likely History itself will kick them out to free up the land for mentally normal people. hi
    3. -1
      12 January 2025 01: 55
      Can't disperse! Only kill!
      Otherwise, they'll fool you again.
  20. -2
    11 January 2025 18: 41
    It cannot be said that the situation in the Black Sea Fleet is so sad. Backups in the Black Sea Fleet are being destroyed. Another thing is that the system for destroying backups has not yet been fully debugged. Backups themselves are noisy boats and can be detected acoustically by noise at a distance of 100 miles. Having detected them and calculated the parameters of their movement, you can easily send a UAV or an anti-submarine helicopter to intercept the backups. Anti-submarine ships and submarines can detect backups by noise. In Crimea, there are still Be-12 anti-submarine seaplanes. Naval aviation is the most terrible enemy in the fleet! Seaplanes are quite autonomous both in flight and afloat and can easily detect and destroy any sea target with the help of acoustic, electronic, and onboard strike combat equipment. The existing naval doctrine of the Russian Federation, for some unknown reason, has thrown seaplanes out of the arsenal of combat use. And in vain. Depending on their filling, seaplanes can perform the functions of anti-submarine, attack, rescue and landing aircraft. That is, they can replace half of all ships in the fleet. The operation of seaplanes is much cheaper than ships, their mobility is many times greater than the mobility of ships. It may well be for this reason that, as a competitor, the command, under pressure from the shipbuilding lobby, removed seaplanes from the fleet's arsenal. The Russian monopoly on the production of seaplanes, TANTK im. Beriev, was subordinated to the Ilyushin company, and this company has its own enterprises that produce their own planes. Ilyushin stuck marine equipment on land-based planes and began to displace the Berievs from their legitimate market. And the Ilyushin land-based planes are structurally tied to the shore and cannot fully replace the Beria seaplanes. I am sure that at least part of the crew of the Kursk submarine could have been saved if the Russian Navy had rescue seaplanes capable of providing assistance to ships in distress and their crews within an hour. And with the advent of hypersonic missiles, the use of seaplanes in general has no competitors in the seas and oceans of our planet. A couple of amphibious strike aircraft can easily deal not only with any ship, but also with an entire AUG of the enemy, quickly and efficiently punish and destroy a sea pirate anywhere on our planet. Seaplanes can also be used as UAV motherships. And backs are just seeds for seaplanes. So it is useful sometimes to remember that the head is given to a person not only for wearing a hat.
  21. -2
    11 January 2025 19: 09
    It cannot be said that the situation in the Black Sea Fleet is so sad. Backups in the Black Sea Fleet are being destroyed. Another thing is that the system for destroying backups has not yet been fully debugged. Backups themselves are noisy boats and can be detected acoustically by noise at a distance of 100 miles. Having detected them and calculated the parameters of their movement, you can easily send a UAV or an anti-submarine helicopter to intercept the backups. Anti-submarine ships and submarines can detect backups by noise. In Crimea, there are still Be-12 anti-submarine seaplanes. Naval aviation is the most terrible enemy in the fleet! Seaplanes are quite autonomous both in flight and afloat and can easily detect and destroy any sea target using acoustic and electronic means. The existing naval doctrine of the Russian Federation, for some unknown reason, has generally thrown seaplanes out of the arsenal of combat use. And in vain. Depending on their filling, seaplanes can perform the functions of anti-submarine, attack, rescue and landing aircraft. That is, they can replace half of all ships in the fleet. The operation of seaplanes is much cheaper than ships, their mobility is many times greater than the mobility of ships. It may well be for this reason that, as a competitor, the command, under pressure from the shipbuilding lobby, removed seaplanes from the fleet's arsenal. The Russian monopoly on the production of seaplanes, TANTK im. Beriev, was subordinated to the Ilyushin company, and this company has its own enterprises that produce their own planes. Ilyushin stuck marine equipment on land-based planes and began to displace the Berievs from their legitimate market. And the Ilyushin land-based planes are structurally tied to the shore and cannot fully replace the Beria seaplanes. I am sure that at least part of the crew of the submarine "Kursk" could have been saved if the Russian Navy had rescue seaplanes capable of providing assistance to ships in distress and their crews within an hour. And with the advent of hypersonic missiles, the use of seaplanes in general has no competitors in the seas and oceans of our planet. A couple of amphibious strike aircraft can easily deal not only with any ship and with an entire AUG of the enemy, but also quickly and efficiently punish and destroy a sea pirate anywhere on our planet. Seaplanes can also be used as UAV motherships. And back-up missiles are just seeds for seaplanes. Back-up missiles are a fairly large sea target that has decent thermal radiation, which allows you to destroy the back-up missile with a small missile with a thermal homing head. For some unknown reason, our fleet does not use such missiles. Take at least land-based ATGMs, install them along the Kerch Strait and along the entire coastline in Russia, on all surface ships, planes and helicopters and calmly shoot back. So it is useful sometimes to remember that the head is given to a person not only for wearing a headdress.
    1. -1
      12 January 2025 01: 59
      Eh, you might as well remember the ekranoplan.
      We don't have our own planes to carry passengers.
    2. -1
      15 January 2025 18: 46
      Quote: Burtsev Vladimir Dmitrievich
      Anti-submarine ships and submarines can detect the noise of the backs. In Crimea, there are still Be-12 anti-submarine seaplanes. Naval aviation is the most terrible enemy in the fleet! Seaplanes are quite autonomous both in flight and afloat and can easily detect and destroy any sea target using acoustic and electronic means. The current Russian naval doctrine, for some unknown reason, has thrown seaplanes out of the arsenal of combat use. And in vain. Depending on their filling, seaplanes can perform the functions of anti-submarine, attack, rescue and landing aircraft. That is, they can replace half of all ships in the fleet. The operation of seaplanes is much cheaper than ships, their mobility is many times greater than the mobility of ships. It may well be for this very reason that, as a competitor, the command, under pressure from the shipbuilding lobby, removed seaplanes from the fleet’s arsenal.

      I fully support, I will note that the be12 is no longer a seaplane, because it is so old that it will fall apart upon landing on the water, there is an acute problem not only of the lack of very necessary gyroplanes but also of PLO aircraft in general, there are only a few of them and they are all Soviet, that is, old, it is urgently necessary to establish a series of be200plo, an engine is being prepared for it, and anti-drone means should be developed for it if possible
  22. -2
    11 January 2025 19: 52
    The problem of liberation of the Black Sea coast from Banderovites, including Odessa, Ochakov and Nikolaev, has been discussed many times at different levels. Almost the entire population of Russia is for the liberation of the Russian fiefdom on the Black Sea. The need for this, all the conditions and objective prerequisites for this exist. Banderovites have no fleet, and Russia's Black Sea fleet is very poorly used. In addition, the complete dominance of the Russian Aerospace Forces and missile weapons in the Air Defense Forces. Clear the entire coast and sea of ​​mines and air force, and then a marine and air landing not only from the sea, but also from the land side under the fire cover of the Russian Armed Forces. And that's the end for all Banderovites and their mercenaries. But for unknown reasons, everything is being held up at the very top, at the level of the high command of the Russian Armed Forces, headed by chief strategist Gerasimov. It is still unclear why Gerasimov surrendered Kherson, Kupyansk, Izyum without a fight! This can be regarded as both betrayal and treason! Now, because of Gerasimov, millions of citizens of Transnistria are suffering, trapped in a circular blockade. Enemy weapons and foreign mercenaries are moving full speed to Ukraine through Odessa and other sea ports. Air and sea drones of Banderites are terrorizing cities and villages of the Black Sea coast of Russia! Why do we need such a strategist, under whose command Russia has been unable to destroy the Banderite scum for three years?! And the zone of military conflict is not shrinking, but expanding to the entire European part of Russia. Are there no other competent commanders in Russia?! The rotation of command personnel must be done more actively, and commanders who have already achieved success in battles in the SVO must be promoted!
    1. +1
      11 January 2025 21: 21
      I will definitely convey your instructions to Gerasimov personally.
  23. +5
    11 January 2025 21: 50
    I posted this here one and a half to two years ago.
    Nothing has changed in this country...
    "Victory in this war, not with Ukraine, but with the West, primarily with the United States, is as necessary to Russia as air, otherwise we will be bent into a ram's horn. But whether this victory will happen under Putin's rule is a big question...
    1. Putin is the flesh of the flesh of this power, enthroned by this kleptocratic power, blessed for the eternal posthumous rule of the "family" of EBN, and not shunning any means of maintaining this power.
    2. For some reason, no one in their articles or comments touches on his "buddies" from the "Ozero" cooperative and the St. Petersburg mayor's office. But it is they, the buddies, who have become the real and only "elite" that controls Putin from behind the scenes and makes decisions about what, where, when and how he should do. We all know their names, and we also know who stole from the people and how much. They sit quietly, keeping a low profile, and surreptitiously do their job for the benefit of their personal pockets, unlike the Chief Dimon of Russia, who stupidly, foolishly, and loudly shakes the air.
    3. The main, the most important problem of our state is corruption, rampant, seasoned, merciless to the people, unpunished by anyone. And why? Why, during all the years of the rule of this "grandmaster" of politics and economics, this "multi-move player", not a single political talk show even raised the issue of corruption in our unfortunate Russia? Taboo? But both Medvedev and Putin himself have loudly declared more than once a "fight against corruption" and "poverty". Where is this "fight"? Where are the results? Perhaps the number of oligarchs has increased year after year, even during the pandemic they managed to steal something. Only Navalny mercilessly and boldly tried to reach the brains of the people. But our "electorate" in the form of old grannies and grandpas does not watch YouTube, apparently they cannot save up money for a SMART TV. But they are the first ones early in the morning, with passports in their teeth, with posters “For Putin!”, going to the elections in orderly rows...
    4. The main guilt of this government is the thirty-year creation of bedlam in politics, in the economy, in education, in health care, in the collapse of industry, with the simultaneous plunder of natural resources, from forests to gas, from top to bottom. Just one friend of our Elbasy, a "modest man" by the name of Miller, has appropriated so much that it would be enough to treat all sick children in the country for ten years ahead...
    5. The authorities blew Ukraine. Do you think that there are all banderlogs? Yes, half of the Russians are fighting there, with Russian surnames, speaking pure Russian. The entire diplomatic corps, headed by Lavrov, should be sent to the front for this, where they will immediately understand what they have been doing wrong for twenty years. This was unacceptable!! At the same time, they will understand the expression "beat first", as in the St. Petersburg gateway. But what a joy it is in the States to watch online from across the ocean how Russians cut each other's throats! The dreams of Kissinger and Brzezinski are coming true...
    6. As an option - what have you been waiting for eight years in the Donbass? The answer is they stole. And the mentality, principles and way of life of the head of the country turned out to be at the level of primitive gangster concepts invested in his brains by brothers from the nineties, in close unity with which these very principles were formed. The number of oligarchs, thieving officials with their yachts, palaces and estates, "kickbacks" and "cuts" of the state budget, just thieves at all levels in state structures determined the fate of Russia for years to come. So, how do you fix this now?
    The moral is this: power must change regularly, as must the president. A maximum of two terms of four years - this has been established by life, and by the blood of many people and states. If we do not want to end up in heaven or hell ahead of time, we must return all this to the constitution, and think better about the future, how we want to live."
    In my opinion, it is still relevant today.
    And probably nothing will change tomorrow either...
    1. +2
      11 January 2025 22: 03
      Quote: Spasatel
      ... The main, the most important problem of our state is corruption... So how can we fix all this now?

      This is not the state's problem. This is the problem of society, which for a thousand years has not learned to create a normal statehood for itself on its own land.

      There is no need to fix anything. Other nations will come and kick out the fools and scoundrels - and fix everything.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -6
      12 January 2025 01: 58
      So Russia is winning, and is already finishing off the NATO bloc in a proxy war. Largely thanks to Putin and Shoigu, who built the strongest army in the world. The USSR lost 27 million, Russia - 1300 times less
    3. 0
      12 January 2025 14: 16
      They wrote a lot, but there is no beginning of the story and no answer on what to do. They write that they cannot do anything, because they will put you in jail, like Kvachkov, or dispose of you, like Navalny or Prigozhin.
      The beginning of the history of the modern Russian Federation is a coup d'etat, the liquidation of the Soviet Union in 1991 and its dismemberment. The USA was at the head, and the executor was B. Yeltsin and his entourage. Sobchak was in charge in St. Petersburg. All who participated became oligarchs and are in the highest echelons of power. Naina Yeltsina calls the 1990s "holy times". You can look at the national question, who destroyed the USSR. It remains to answer "What is to be done"?
  24. +2
    11 January 2025 22: 08
    For every action there is a reaction. No matter how hard the English try, they are not alone in the world. They just openly shit, because they are extremely impudent, but they can be cut off. The easiest way is to supply weapons to those who do not like them. Half the planet is like that
  25. 0
    11 January 2025 22: 41
    The loss is due to corruption around the Russian Armed Forces.
    Places bets on weapons created in the Soviet Union.
    Machine guns against drones, helicopters against back-up aircraft.
    Did you know that there are even watches that work because of the movements of brushes. There are water signaling technologies that let you know about rising water or approaching tsunami. They are inexpensive and you can install acoustic or electronic approaching. And you need to use beks floating three meters under the water level. Because it is already dangerous for the turntable and they are almost useless against beks.
    And for drones we need a Saiga with an increased caliber and magazines.
    Against drones
    1. -6
      12 January 2025 01: 55
      Russia has its own modern weapons. I watched videos from Afghanistan in the late 80s - the USSR was hopelessly behind the US. And now Russia is defeating America in a proxy war
  26. +2
    12 January 2025 00: 29
    Here. It's not that I'm forced to, but I simply admit that the author in this case is looking at the very root of future military conflicts.
    Whoever has the advantage in autonomous drones of different types, controlled by AI, will have the advantage.
    Comrade VGK once said this, mentioning that whoever has artificial intelligence at their disposal will rule the world.
    There is a video on YouTube that shows terrorists using thousands of miniature drones equipped with a shaped charge against civilians. Like, a fly flies onto the top of a student's head, bang! - and the brain is pierced.
    And this is not just a fantasy. It is already achievable. The brains of a run-of-the-mill smartphone, built into such a drone, are more than enough to carry out tasks of pinpoint destruction of anyone, anywhere.
    It is enough to imagine a Grad or Uragan missile, filled with a couple of hundred of these drones, scattering its contents over the territory intended for total cleansing, and the soul is filled with anger towards our PZhIV, which, instead of cutting off potential threats, was engaged in embezzlement on Rossonano, tank biathlons and other Fedoras.
    The war of the future is already underway, the entire Western military-industrial complex works on 404, it is not the Ukrainian military-industrial complex that opposes Russia, it is the Western military-industrial complex. And even speaking about the Ukrainian military-industrial complex, we must understand that its brains and production capacities are not only located on the territory of the BU, they are distributed throughout Europe, the USA and the countries of the British crown.
    Until such a drone lands on the head of one of our sanctioned people, they won’t move.
    In fact, collecting 150-200 million drones, so that there would be more than enough for every Russian man and woman, would not take that long or be that expensive compared to the potential profit in the form of control over 1/8 of the land.
    The existential threat is close and comes not from nuclear weapons of an overseas enemy, but from banal sea containers in which millions of such drones can be brought to any city in the country.
    And at the right hour the lid slides off and the flies fly out to hunt. Ten such containers per block is a feasible task.
    You can't fight them off with a nuclear baton unless you preemptively destroy the countries capable of producing them, or bring similar drones into those countries.
    One drone breaks through the glass in the apartment windows, and then several more fly into the opening and that’s it, there’s no one alive in the apartment, and the house is intact.
    But we produce tanks, yeah.

    Link to the video:

    1. 0
      12 January 2025 01: 31
      Reminded me of the beginning of the novel about the soldier Chonkin, where the sergeant-deputy platoon commander answers the political officer's question about the difference between the Red Army and the army of capitalists
      1. -3
        12 January 2025 01: 54
        The difference is that the Red Army lost 27 million lives, while the capitalist army lost 1300 times less.
        1. 0
          12 January 2025 18: 05
          Read the now declassified data. They sent pilots with 2 weeks of flying time to the Kursk Bulge. What chance did they have against the German aces?
          This is how a group of unarmed teenagers want to go to the UFC fighter in the evening...on the street
  27. +3
    12 January 2025 00: 48
    As Stalin said - we have no other Navy... Let's work with this one! And make it the best! The Motherland is waiting for its admirals of victory and they must be born!
    1. +1
      12 January 2025 13: 04
      "eh...The Motherland is waiting for its admirals of victory and they must be born

      - Yeah, negative selection is a joke. We need to introduce personal responsibility at the cost of life. Where are those bastards who fucked up the "Moscow" cr-r? Do they teach at the Academy? Do they teach how to steal and shit?
      1. 0
        15 January 2025 18: 52
        According to Ukrainian media reports citing a source, Igor Osipov was allegedly arrested by Russian special services shortly after the sinking of the missile cruiser Moskva on April 13, 2022. Osipov was absent from the Victory Day (May 9) and Black Sea Fleet Day celebrations in Sevastopol (May 13) - celebrations at which the commander of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy, by virtue of his position, always accepts the ceremonial march of troops; Sevastopol Governor Mikhail Razvozhaev explained this by saying that Osipov was "on duty." However, on June 19 in Sevastopol, Osipov was present at the celebrations on the occasion of the graduation of officers and warrant officers

        Black Sea Higher Naval School named after P.S. Nakhimov, and on August 10, 2022, by order of the Minister of Defense of Russia, Vice-Admiral Viktor Sokolov was appointed acting commander of the Black Sea Fleet

        https://ru.wikipedia.org/
  28. +2
    12 January 2025 01: 27
    Author, do you really believe that the generals in the General Staff, responsible for creating the technical specifications for new types of weapons, read Topcor.ru? I beg you
  29. -3
    12 January 2025 01: 53
    The Russian fleet has won. The Russian Black Sea Fleet dominates the Black Sea and is the strongest by a large margin. NATO can do nothing. Ukrainian BAKs do not exist in nature, Ukraine is a backward dump that does not even produce small ships. The US and NATO, yes, launch their BAKs at American satellites under the guise of allegedly Ukraine, but Russia neutralizes them. Russia wins the proxy war with NATO, having losses 1300 times lower than in WWII
  30. +3
    12 January 2025 11: 23
    The fleet is led by people who live only in the past and are unable to analyze today's situation and predict tomorrow's situation in the industry they lead. That's why everyone overslept.
  31. +1
    12 January 2025 11: 40
    Why did the Russian Navy find itself there in the position of a cornered outsider?

    It's an old debate about what kind of ships are needed today. Large ships are a thing in themselves. And no sensible person would risk them. Except in the most extreme cases. As the Japanese used to say, "There are three useless things in the world. The Egyptian pyramids, the Great Wall of China, and the Yamato battleships."
    Of course, 2-3 years ago no one expected that UAVs and BEKs would appear in huge quantities. This does not mean that we should sprinkle ashes on our heads. We need means of combating the mosquito fleet. In the Black Sea (and in the Baltic as well) large ships are just targets. No defense will save against a hundred (or several hundred UAVs) and dozens of BEKs. And if we add coastal complexes, then the lot of large ships is to sit in bases.
    For some reason, the experience of the Great Patriotic War did not benefit anyone. The Black Sea Fleet ceased active combat operations in October 1943. Without an order from Headquarters, not a single large ship had the right to leave the base.
    But it's too early to talk about an "outsider". We just need to fix the situation. And think.
  32. +3
    12 January 2025 13: 01
    Let's not attribute to the hohols what they did not do. All this drone turmoil is Britain's contribution to the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet. And you can only fight drones without trembling at the thought of offending the Anglo-Saxons. AWACS and drone repeaters are hanging calmly in the air - it seems that for our admiral-samotopes the very thought of destroying them is the greatest sin.
  33. +2
    12 January 2025 14: 40
    Long-term irremovability often leads to insanity...
  34. +2
    13 January 2025 00: 41
    Quote: prior
    The fleet is designed for war.
    Russia is conducting ground military operations, even with "white gloves".
    Ukraine is resisting with terrorist methods both on land and at sea.
    Unequal conditions.
    But it seems no one is going to recognize Ukraine as a terrorist state.
    It is enough to completely demolish the Ukrainian ports and everything will fall into place.

    That's it. First, someone needs to want to win this thing, then everything will be. But now we haven't even started yet.
  35. +1
    13 January 2025 09: 28
    War is when you need one victory...They are fighting with us. We have SVO - only the process is important...half war, half business, half betrayal...As the 5th column got excited - negotiations, negotiations, negotiations...a cockroach with a shoe...
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  37. 0
    13 January 2025 10: 48
    The inability to look one step ahead is a diagnosis for the entire system. It can be stated that at the moment, there are no significant shifts. Against this background, Belousov's praise of Shoigu for the "powerful groundwork" was quite characteristic. We remember what is possible and what is not. So, the question is: Was he wrong? Or...
  38. +1
    13 January 2025 11: 09
    In short, because the leaders of the Ministry of Defense and especially the Navy were preparing for the last war, completely uninterested in what was happening in the world now. Life was too good to strain.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. 0
    14 January 2025 07: 48
    Everything is frozen in lies, corruption, and in our own, whom we don’t abandon! With such “baggage”, should we puff out our cheeks?.... “We need to eat less”!!!
  41. 0
    14 January 2025 19: 21
    I don't want to go into the contradiction of the article, but the last battle between helicopters and back-up aircraft is a direct connivance of the ChMF aviation. Why: what missiles were the back-up aircraft equipped with? What protection were the Mi-8 and Mi-28 equipped with? Definitely not the L-370 Vitebsk helicopters. But the MANPADS was an arrow, everything else is afraid of splashes. The result is obvious. The Russian Navy's reluctance continues.
  42. 0
    16 January 2025 22: 22
    There is a simple, 100% land solution: occupy the coastal territory, depriving the Ukrainian Armed Forces of access to the Black Sea.
  43. 0
    21 January 2025 09: 43
    It's like the appearance of the Kringsmarine wolf packs. At first, it's overwhelming, but if you turn on your brain and not just throw your paws up, then everything can be solved.
  44. 0
    22 January 2025 11: 25
    What nonsense. What is the Black Sea Fleet doing at sea, where there are no enemy ships or submarines? Who are they going to fight? With the backs, which also do not exist and are hidden in shelters on land and only jump out into the sea at night, where they are destroyed without any problems by aviation and coastal means? I live in Sevastopol, and periodically at night I can hear explosions of successfully destroyed backs from the sea. They have never caused any damage to the fleet in the waters of Sevastopol. During the day you can generally see fishing and other vessels in the outer roadstead, because during the day the backs are destroyed instantly and at long distances. The author is just some kind of cretin and writes complete nonsense.