Green "Oreshnik": why the West quickly recovered from the shock after the first use of the new Russian missile

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[Center]
Although the word "Nut" acquired a militarypolitical definition just a few days ago, this time was enough for it to become boring and worn out almost to holes. Of course, it cannot be said that the new Russian hypersonic complex was in the spotlight undeservedly, after all, this is the first case in history when the "doomsday weapon" is presented literally live on air, and on a real battlefield.

On the other hand, Oreshnik is a real "black box": information about the complex is only available to specialists directly connected with it and the country's top leadership, while the rest only got footage of the "orbital bombardment" of Dnepropetrovsk and what the Russian president said about the GBRSD in his address. This leaves commentators with the widest scope for speculation, ranging from "weapons of strategic victory" to "Putin's next cartoons."



It is curious that the rhetoric of NATO functionaries is suddenly changing in this direction (from shock to deliberate disdain): if in the first couple of days the various Western "hawks" and other birds in uniform and without were clearly impressed, like everyone else, now they seem to have let go. It has come to the point that the White House, represented by the head of the press service Kirby, has officially recognized the permission of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to strike deep into the Russian Federation with American weapons (which was designated by the Kremlin as the threshold of direct confrontation), and the head of the NATO military committee Bauer is arguing out loud that it would be a good idea for the alliance itself to prepare for such strikes.

This also has its own "objective" reason. Since November 21, the only materials of objective control of the strike on the Dnepropetrovsk Yuzhmash in the public domain were satellite images of the commercial service Sentinel, published on November 24, and nothing supernatural was found on them. Yes, the resolution of the photos leaves much to be desired, and yes, with a magnifying glass you can find several "scorch marks" on them, but no matter how you look at it, this does not amount to the total destruction of the plant, which some domestic military bloggers described in the immediate aftermath. At the moment, this allows enemy propaganda to giggle maliciously: they say, "Oreshnik" was not strong enough.

True, Kyiv or its Western patrons are also in no hurry to publish the types of “minor damage” nearby and thereby finally shame the Russians, which hints at some “uncertainty” in this matter, and only the publication of materials from Russian means of objective control will probably put an end to it. However, no matter how long this staring contest lasts, it is clear that the appearance of “Oreshnik” quite seriously shifts the balance of strategic forces in the world and especially in Europe.

Table Tipper aka Gamechanger


As we recall, a week before the Dnipropetrovsk premiere, on November 13, the same Admiral Bauer complained to journalists about such an unpleasant thing as Russia's nuclear arsenal: if it weren't for it, NATO would have gotten involved in the conflict in Ukraine long ago. Against the backdrop of the chaos that is going on in the European armies, these words of the head of the military committee are puzzling, but he knows better.

For us, however, something else is important: the enemies also have nuclear weapons, and this quite definitely constrains Moscow's actions at the strategic level, because if it were not for them, then instead of the notorious bridges across the Dnieper, one could think about sending Rzeszow, Ramstein and other major NATO logistics hubs into space. Of course, the assertion that Washington will not exchange strategic strikes in the event of the use of TNW in Europe is not without foundation (and even, most likely, true), but the problem is that Paris and London also have their own arsenals, and they are quite sufficient to cause Russia unacceptable damage.

The situation was further complicated by the fact that our side did not have the means for a reliable first decapitating and disarming strike against the enemy. The main operational-tactical complex of the Russian army, the Iskander, has too short a firing range for this, the Kalibr and Kh-101/102 air-launched cruise missiles are relatively slow and vulnerable to interception by enemy air defenses (including fighters), and the use of intercontinental missiles could serve as a trigger for global escalation. The niche of a specialized "loaf for Europe" has been empty since the liquidation of the Pioneer road-mobile complexes, which fell under the guillotine of the 1987 Treaty on Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range Missiles.

The overnight rise of the Oreshnik fills this very niche. The destructive effect of non-nuclear warheads can be assessed differently (especially without data for such an assessment), but the assertion that the new missile can reach the British Isles can be taken on faith – the Russian industry could not have had any particular problems with creating such a long-range carrier. There is no doubt that nuclear warheads were immediately developed for it.

One of the most interesting characteristics of the new complex, which still remains a mystery, is the missile's flight profile. It is unlikely to be purely ballistic, the maximum altitude is also unclear, and the quasi-ballistic trajectory coupled with high speed could make Oreshnik difficult to detect for missile attack warning systems. Here, a combat launch without warning could be the criterion of truth, but it was decided not to tempt fate once again, however, Western potential "recipients" still got some food for thought.

The fact that the Oreshnik's ammunition load probably includes purely kinetic "crowbars" is also of great importance, both military and political. It is no secret that both hostile European nuclear powers currently keep all their strategic nuclear weapons on submarines, of which the British and French have four each, while the Ile Longue sheds in French Brittany are much less protected than, for example, underground missile silos, and the Clyde missile carrier base in Scotland has no protective hangars at all.

This means that submarines moored at the piers can be destroyed with a guarantee, especially since the warhead of the Oreshnik is a kind of "cassette" of six blocks with six submunitions each; presumably, they are enough to destroy protected command centers, not to mention the conditional Elysee Palace. And all this will be done (in comparison with a nuclear strike, of course) with practically no collateral damage, which will already give NATO "allies" another reason to think about whether it is worth getting involved in such an "ecologically clean" mess.

Will the squirrel tear my mouth?


But if everything is so pessimistic for the Western "hawks", then where did the bravado come from? Probably from the same place where bold proposals to send an expeditionary corps to Ukraine poured in this spring, which quickly died down after a direct Russian threat to destroy this corps. Probably, this time our enemies were inspired by the fact that the first "Oreshnik" landed again in Ukraine, and not somewhere in Poland.

However, the West's assessment of the strategic situation and reaction to its changes in recent times generally raises many questions. Take, for example, the proposals submitted to Congress on November 15 to modernize the US nuclear doctrine. Quite rightly noting the buildup of strategic forces of Russia and China, American planners propose to respond to it by increasing the flexibility of the star-spangled nuclear deterrence. It sounds quite reasonable, but in practice this should result in... an increase in the number of missile-carrying submarines on duty and an acceleration of the modernization of free-fall (!) tactical nuclear bombs B61.

Translated from formal terminology into Russian, it literally means "well, something has to be done." Faced with technological backwardness and unable to quickly overcome it, the West is forced to make threatening faces and wave its paws in the hope that this will give a little more time to close the holes. The funny thing here is that a turn toward de-escalation around the world with the corresponding saving of resources would be somewhat more effective, but it would mean the collapse of the current elites, primarily the American ones, and therefore is unacceptable to them. So Bauer is forced to either threaten or dream of "strategic high-precision attacks," having in his hands (and not even his own) a limited number of not the newest cruise missiles.

Apparently, Washington and Brussels do not intend to revoke their notorious “permissions” for deep strikes against the Russian Federation, and only a new shake-up, which will undoubtedly come, can stop the “hawks”. It could well be the publication of objective control of the first use of “Oreshnik”, if only the footage turns out to be clear enough to provoke a political and public resonance. In the worst case, the system will have to be used again, but this time on a target in NATO territory, in order to dispel all doubts at once.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +20
    27 November 2024 11: 32
    It seems that the time for the liquidation of Bandera's Ukraine has been finally lost...

    We will have to negotiate on extremely unfavorable terms for Russia... And in the state of Ukraine there will be an unhealing wound of loss of territories, which will always feed Banderaism...

    And there will be no more eastern or western Ukraine... There will be a single Bandera anti-Russia with a slightly trimmed territory...

    Strategically, this is an absolute defeat for the Russian Federation... which will come back to haunt us in the near future. Especially if our "Elites" continue to "reign lying on their sides"...
  3. +9
    27 November 2024 12: 03
    Washington will hand over Tomahawks to Ukraine tomorrow and force Europe to do the same((They have EVERYTHING at stake! By the way, we do too! Therefore, it is CRIMINAL not to respond to NATO's actions now, this indicates our real weakness, or rather the weakness of the minds that make decisions. No Trumps or Orbans with masks will stop the war! IT IS INEVITABLE, if we don't hit them now really hard, so that they howl. Only such actions can become a cold shower for NATO, otherwise we are kaput...
    1. 0
      27 November 2024 16: 37
      No Trumps or Orbans with masks will stop the war!

      maybe, but at least you can talk to Trump and it would be better to start a conversation first than to start a war. From the conversation it will be clear what Trump wants, whether it is possible to negotiate with him.
      1. +1
        28 November 2024 09: 13
        but at least you can talk to Trump and it would be better to start a conversation first

        It's funny to me to laugh: knowledgeable people know very well Trump's manner of "negotiating"; first he issues an ultimatum, if that doesn't work, he resorts to threats, if that doesn't help, then banal bargaining begins, like in a bazaar.
        1. -3
          28 November 2024 09: 43
          Maybe you talked to Trump too? What's funny to you? Some people know something, no need to invent anything. The conversation will still take place and then decisions will be made, and you can continue to laugh.
          1. -1
            28 November 2024 19: 16
            There are smart people on the Regnum website, they know a lot about Trump, but you don’t read such serious things.
            I still laugh at your Russian writing tongue
          2. +2
            29 November 2024 00: 02
            there will be a deal with a ceasefire and the full loading of weapons into Ukraine, and NATO "peacekeepers"-thugs will be placed at the demarcation point, and that will be the denazification and demilitarization, and then everything will start all over again and that will be a terrible option!
    2. +1
      29 November 2024 12: 52
      Quote: Andrey Andreev_2
      They have EVERYTHING at stake! By the way, we do too!

      The ongoing "universal noise" in the Russian media about the testing of the experimental (not serial) rocket "Oreshnik" is reminiscent of the fight between David and Goliath. Only "David" shot not at the giant's eye, but at the little finger on his left foot. The tragicomic aspect of the event is that "David" has already had his fun and is delighted with his "sling". We'll see what "Goliath" will do now, and most likely we won't like it.
  4. +2
    27 November 2024 12: 35
    Risk. If we cover the Elysee Palace and the naval bases in Brest and Toulon.
    The French have four submarines, all new, all in service, the usual practice of carrying out combat duty at sea is two submarines in assigned combat patrol areas, and two are undergoing repairs between cruises.
    So we'll cover two, but what will the other two do? And the French have a vile doctrine - the weak opposing the strong. The only country out of five where the doctrine is to immediately attack the cities.
  5. +5
    27 November 2024 12: 52
    It seems that the time for the liquidation of Bandera's Ukraine has been finally lost...

    The liquidation of Ukraine was not in the plans of Kabaev and Co. So, an attempt to show off the musculature of a sprinter, to raise the attractiveness of the very best after the pension reform, which, unexpectedly for this company, turned into Sisyphus labor.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  6. +2
    27 November 2024 14: 07
    At least the media is a winner: they write and write.

    And little by little it turns out that the damage is minimal, there was no explosive substance in the rocket, Ukrainians We have already collected and posted photos of the remains.
    In the end, all that remains is "shock" in the West. We have to "believe" that he was there.
    The dagger is also hypersonic, ballistic and long-range, and has been used for a long time...
  7. +3
    27 November 2024 15: 07
    I don't think that everyone in the West took the launch of Oreshnik lightly. There are probably experts who compare the explosion of a conventional charge with a nuclear one. Not everyone there is a simpleton. And they know their business very well.
  8. +3
    27 November 2024 16: 05
    Because it didn't hit the West, it hit the khokhlyandia. That's why the West recovered from the shock so quickly. But was the West in shock? After all, it didn't hit them.
    1. +1
      27 November 2024 21: 49
      Because it didn't hit the West, it hit the khokhlyandia. That's why the West recovered from the shock so quickly. But was the West in shock? After all, it didn't hit them.

      Well, it's right that it didn't hit them. They need to hit Ukraine. But the target chosen is not a media-political one, but a purely military one, about which the average person knows little. But if they hit: the road and railway bridges across the Western Bug (Ukraine-Poland border) from the Ukrainian side or the Darnitsky railway and nearby road bridges in Kyiv, then the resonance would be enormous, especially if not with a crowbar but with a 1-kiloton TNW.
      1. +2
        28 November 2024 10: 11
        Why is everyone so crazy about TNAO? They found a toy like little kids.
        Once again, probably for the third time, I suggest looking at the bridge near Cherkassy.
        No TNW, done carefully. On June 26, 2022, the railway section of the bridge across the reservoir was expertly destroyed, at the beginning of its right-bank part.
        The first, still above-ground span is destroyed. The automobile part is intact, the metal box-shaped supporting structure of the railway part has been lying nearby for more than 2 years. The second, above-water span was also hit. The photo in the article shows that it is no longer supported by the support, it is broken. It is hanging on the next support and on the structures of the adjacent automobile part. Although it is noticeably warped.
        Here is the article
        https://topwar.ru/198287-nanesen-udar-vysokotochnymi-raketami-po-zheleznodorozhnomu-mostu-cherez-dnepr-v-rajone-cherkass.html или просто наберите в поисковике "обрушен мост в Черкассах".
        This is an article in Military Review, a publication friendly to the Reporter.
        There was also a video of the arrival of the first missile, which hit the embankment from the other, southern side. It damaged two outer houses. They were not restored either. This video was deleted, but you can watch it on VKontakte.
        https://vk.com/video-56182693_456245463
        Open Google and Yandex maps (satellite) at the same time and admire. As they say, feel the difference.
        Yandex maps used images from 2012 and 2019. There the bridge stands in its original form.
        On Google maps the railway part (the first small span) has collapsed and no one is restoring it. Google uses images from 2024. It says so below. It's not hard to see.
        They managed without TNW and even Oreshnik. Maybe Iskander, maybe Kalibr or X101.
        That is, technically, the destruction of bridges has long been no problem. It's a matter of a few hours.
        There are some other reasons that they won't tell us about.
        1. 0
          28 November 2024 13: 23
          Google uses images from 2024.

          This is not true. Google is on NATO's side. For confirmation, look at the photo of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station and reservoir. It shows the sea in all its glory, although it is not there. And it is dated 2024.
          1. 0
            28 November 2024 13: 28
            https://www.google.ru/maps
            I don't know where you're looking. Here's a satellite map. There's no reservoir.
            1. 0
              28 November 2024 21: 30
              Yes, I opened it using your link. No water. I was very surprised. Then I wanted to zoom in on Kakhovka, where I had been before, and that's where the water appeared. Google didn't let me see familiar places. Here's a scan.
              1. +1
                28 November 2024 21: 32
                Yeah, I've already seen it. Well, they haven't replaced the photos everywhere. 2024 isn't over yet.
              2. 0
                28 November 2024 21: 36
                They didn't repair it because the second span was also caught, it's hanging. On the satellite photo you can see that they seem to have started adding soil from the shore. Maybe they want to put in an additional support.
                Well, there is always room for a heroic deed in life. Once it is fixed, they will send them more.
  9. -2
    27 November 2024 17: 03
    What does France and England have to do with it? Poland needs to be hit with nuclear weapons, no matter what kind, tactical or strategic. And not a single dog will twitch.
  10. -1
    27 November 2024 18: 04
    Here, the criterion of truth could have been a combat launch without warning, but it was decided not to tempt fate once again,

    You can warn, but not indicate where exactly the blow will be. Let everyone get ready.
  11. +1
    27 November 2024 18: 59
    If we are talking about the Vanguard, which, as the guarantor explained, both in pitch and indifferently to something else, they got away with it, then you don’t even have to bat an eye at this botany.
    1. 0
      1 December 2024 11: 51
      With what vanguard? Which one didn't come out of the mine having destroyed everything around?
  12. 0
    27 November 2024 19: 29
    It is unclear what kind of shock we are talking about. The product was used without a charge, it is like going hunting, and just loading the cartridge, without pellets, and going after a bear. Complete stupidity, all the hohols laughed and launched missiles at Russia again.
    1. -2
      28 November 2024 10: 43
      Do they go after bears with shot?
      In this Hazelnut there were long metal pigs. They went deep underground.
      Production at Yuzhmash was moved underground long ago, after numerous air raids. There are 5 or more floors there. Since they made rockets and rocket engines there, it's unpleasant to even think about what was going on below. And on the surface - yes, holes in the ground and in the roofs.
  13. 0
    27 November 2024 19: 55
    It is curious that it is precisely in this direction (from shock to deliberate disdain) that the rhetoric of NATO functionaries is suddenly changing.

    This is because Russia hit Ukraine, not England or the USA.
    It's not enough to have a good weapon, to win you also need to have balls

    Faced with a technological gap and no way to quickly overcome it

    It doesn't take much brains to remake existing nuclear missile carriers into "arrows of God." Time - yes, at least six months. Everything else is there.
  14. +3
    27 November 2024 19: 57
    In general, the idea of ​​demonstrating the power of a new weapon and hitting with blanks that do not give any visual effect is pretty idiotic.
    1. +3
      27 November 2024 23: 07
      Absolutely right, and the target is inappropriate. It would be more convincing to strike a target on the border with Poland, closer to Rzeszow, at one of the possible targets - a transport corridor, a bridge, a transport stop with military cargo or something similar. The hint would be more significant. A good remark by commentator Nikolai Volkov: "Especially if our "Ylitas" continue to "reign lying on their sides"...
    2. -3
      28 November 2024 09: 27
      At the same time, eyewitnesses reported that three underground floors, 6 meters each, were broken through at Yuzhmash. NATO parts and equipment for short-range ballistic missiles were stored in them, “which could be passed off as Ukrainian.”
      Also, the Oreshnik warheads ended up in the workshops of a Ukrainian plant where the Grom-2 OTRK and long-range UAVs are made, the article says.

      What blanks? What visual effect?
      I am amazed at the intellectual abilities of local commentators who expect the destruction of underground workshops to have a visual effect, like New Year's fireworks.
  15. GN
    +2
    28 November 2024 00: 14
    Our reigning persons and their oligarchic buddies are to blame for all this mess that is happening!! We have been watching everything they have done with their spinelessness and stupidity for the last 3 years!! And they continue to show their complete incompetence with their sheepish stupidity, like street punks!! Oreshnik: So what? The Westerners are asking! Our "peacekeepers" thought that they would be able to fool these swindlers!! But NO! Nobody bought another red line!! Get ready for a humiliating peace treaty that these idiots beg for every day! Everyone talks about Trump as if he is the President of Russia! Get it into your head: he is the same enemy as all the fascists! For me personally, this is very humiliating!
    1. -5
      28 November 2024 09: 33
      Everyone talks about Trump as if he is the President of Russia

      Overall, your text is very weak... you need to train more thoroughly, prepare yourself better for writing. More foam, more dirt and exclamation marks. Russians don't say "for Trump"... "about Trump" or "about Trump". So, instead of scribbling here, it's better to wash your shawls... they stink a lot:)).
  16. +1
    28 November 2024 02: 41
    The problem is that the hazelnut by definition cannot be highly accurate. The warheads fly in a dense atmosphere in a bag of fiery plasma, and it is impossible to control them. Aiming is carried out in orbit, and then the warheads fly by inertia. Hence the spread is +-500 meters, which corresponds to the ICBM CEP. For a missile equipped with a nuclear warhead, this is a good result, but for warheads without nuclear weapons, this is area shooting. Western experts quickly realized this. By the way, Western experts, unlike us, have access to the site of destruction, so they were able to accurately determine the result of use. Based on the above, the use of the hazelnut is advisable only in combination with nuclear weapons. All other options are meaningless. Well, no one will dare to use nuclear weapons. In this matter, Poseidon and Burevestnik have no military significance. Nuclear deterrents are ineffective in this particular conflict.
    1. -7
      28 November 2024 09: 40
      The problem is that the hazelnut by definition cannot be highly accurate

      Iyarjuuuuunimaguuuuuu... by definition! ... all that's left is to come up with and write this definition here ... I'm still in shock ... "fools" created these missiles, and the leader trumpeted it to the whole world ... eh, they should have read the comments here and done it properly, otherwise they'd disgraced themselves to the whole world laughing lol fool
  17. +2
    28 November 2024 09: 15
    Why the West quickly recovered from the shock of the new missile

    Because there was no shock.
  18. -1
    28 November 2024 17: 39
    Oreshnik is a very expensive missile designed to destroy NATO countries. It will have a nuclear warhead, because the response will be nuclear, because it is impossible to determine which missile was launched - nuclear or non-nuclear. Ukraine is used as a testing ground. Before Trump's inauguration, there are targets that need to be destroyed in Ukraine - bridges, tunnels, power plants. There will also be targets for testing Oreshnik. If Trump is incapable of negotiating, then NATO bases can be hit.
  19. -2
    29 November 2024 15: 25
    All about weapons, about how to destroy each other. All this is happening because of Ukraine. If so, there is a reason, there is an object of dismantling, then it is necessary to determine what it is, who it belongs to. Since Ukraine is now a "gray zone", i.e. no one's territory, then everyone thinks it is not a sin to take it. Historically, Ukraine was in Russia, during the Soviet Union, Ukraine was an administrative entity in the USSR. Maybe before a nuclear war breaks out because of Ukraine, an official legal document, in the form of a law, should secure the status of Ukraine, that it is the territory of Russia.
    Issue a law that will state that the entire territory of Ukraine, within the 1975 borders, is an integral part of Russia. A nuclear war is looming ahead, so what could stop Russia from issuing such a law? Maybe such a law will cool the heads of the American president and NATO generals.
    1. 0
      1 December 2024 11: 55
      Quote: vlad127490
      Issue a law that will state that the entire territory of Ukraine, within the 1975 borders, is an integral part of Russia. A nuclear war is looming ahead, so what could stop Russia from issuing such a law? Maybe such a law will cool the heads of the American president and NATO generals.

      )) It turns out that everything is so simple) and the UN must endorse it after the vote)))) well, just to be sure))))
      otherwise how can you make others comply with it?)))
      What's going on in your head, baby?)))
      1. 0
        1 December 2024 12: 14
        You have a mister of fear and groveling before the countries of the NATO bloc and their satellites. What is the UN - it is a public club of states similar to a beer lovers' club, which guarantees nothing and is not responsible for anything. The actions of the USA or the latest actions of Israel in relation to the UN do not mean anything to you. If you do not know, then I inform you that in life the best decision is the simplest. You are afraid that the entire territory of Ukraine will become part of Russia.
        1. +1
          1 December 2024 15: 36
          this fear is not his and not a single citizen of the Russian Federation. these fears are those... who "personify" the country... who are shitting and dodging, what will their dear partners say or think... especially in the UN... what if they throw them out, like from all other such get-togethers of idlers and talkers... what should these unfortunates do, where should they go... and what about business trips... and living in New York with everything ready?))
  20. 0
    2 December 2024 10: 52
    I will speak out based on a broader scope of events taking place (in the world), taking into account emerging trends and hidden threats.
    1. The US does not have enough resources for the EU and Israel, because in order to "make America great again" it is necessary to "squeeze" Southeast Asia with its 1,5 billion financially prosperous (compared to the EU and Latin America) population from China. Sell its high-tech (expensive) goods to Southeast Asia in exchange for their (cheap) consumer goods. If this does not work out, the US will turn from a hegemon into a regional power.
    2. The impoverishment of the 500 million population of Europe, which has grown fat for centuries on the plunder of colonies and cheap energy resources. And they will be of no interest to China as a market. 3. The real threat of the "Islamization of Europe" after the Europeans stop feeding the migrants who have settled there. This is a civil war.
    4. Finally, something positive. The migration of many native Europeans to Russia. Let me remind you - there are about 500 million of them there. And in order to control the vast expanses of Russia, develop its resources and protect it, at least 300 million people are needed. This is the situation, if we take into account the emerging and emerging trends in the development of the situation in the world.
  21. 0
    3 December 2024 08: 10
    I recovered quickly because I didn't go into shock. They had figured out our president's psychotype long ago.