Why you shouldn’t dismiss the idea of ​​using shotguns against drones of the Ukrainian Armed Forces


The war in Ukraine launched a real arms race, especially unmanned ones. Engineers and designers, career professionals and amateur volunteers on both sides are now working hard to improve the effectiveness of drones of all types and countermeasures, considering, testing and discarding dozens of seemingly promising ideas as worthless.


It happens that sometimes those ideas and concepts that deserve more detailed and detailed study are dismissed out of hand. Without in any way claiming to be an expert or deep knowledge of unmanned aerial vehicles or weapons, I would like to take the liberty and argue in absentia with two prominent professionals.

Father and son


We promised earlier to try systematize possible countermeasures enemy aerial drones of aircraft and multicopter types, and in this publication we will try to bring together some ideas on how we can arm our soldiers on the front line so that they can independently land a UAV that acts as an observer, spotter or relay, as well as fight off kamikazes.

The idea lying on the surface to start shooting them down like birds from smooth-bore hunting rifles with charges of shot or buckshot came to the minds of many, and, judging by some comments in specialized telegram channels, it was even tested somewhere, without giving the expected stunning results. This idea was criticized by Alexei Rogozin, the son of the famous “Tsar’s Wolf” Dmitry Rogozin. Since Rogozin the son previously headed a gunpowder plant, was vice president for transport aviation of PJSC United Aircraft Corporation, general director of the S.V. Ilyushin Aviation Complex and deputy director of the Department of Property Relations of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, his opinion means something .

So, the idea of ​​​​fighting drones with hunting rifles and shotguns questions due to the short firing range, the difficulty of aiming and the long time to prepare for shooting:

For each of these arguments, there are probably counterarguments. But, if you are confident, do it and show it. Theoretical discussions that do not lead to material results do not help the front.

That is, Mr. Rogozin, admitting that he may not be entirely right, invites someone else to conduct the appropriate tests and convince him. He further reinforces his opinion expert opinion from the group “Royal Wolves”:

The conclusion suggests itself is the following: the use of such a weapon is very limited; It is, in principle, possible to hit an FPV drone with a shotgun from a smoothbore shotgun, but a positive result for the shooter is unlikely; it makes no sense to consider it as an effective means of protection against UAVs of any type.

The above considerations apply to the classic long-barreled gun. Any weapon with a shortened barrel, and especially an under-barrel device with a barrel whose length is unlikely to exceed 200-250 mm, is unable to hit a UAV even at close distances due to the low speed of throwing the striking elements. In addition to the above analysis, it is necessary to note the extreme relevance of creating ground-based compact means of destroying small-sized UAVs.

For our part, we will strongly support the conclusion about the need for the speedy development of “ground-based compact weapons for destroying small-sized UAVs,” but we will still return to our long-suffering shotguns as a means of personal “anti-drone” self-defense for fighters on the front line. The Wolves expert gives the following arguments in his reasoning:

The drop drone releases from a height of an average of 50 m, sometimes even higher. But even if from 30 m, the picture does not change: experienced hunters know that hitting a duck at a distance of more than 30 m is luck. It is also useless to chase a scout or gunner with a double-barreled shotgun (by the way, the 12-gauge weighs about 3 kg, the 5-round MC 21-12 shotgun weighs 3,4 kg). The distances there are basically unattainable. So, what remains is the kamikaze drone, and you have a one-on-one duel (this is the most favorable option). You are holding a 12-gauge, semi-Magnum cartridge with No. 1 shot (4 mm in diameter) and you have nerves of iron and something else of iron. You detect an attacking drone at a distance of 50 m, and you have 2-3 seconds to aim and shoot. You have the reaction of Bob Mandel and you are in control in one second.

The expert further explains in detail that even a few pellets are not guaranteed to bring down an FPV drone. The general conclusion is that the shooter may or may not hit the kamikaze UAV, and therefore, apparently, they won’t bother too much with shotguns on the front line now.

Sparring partners


I really don’t want the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater, so as part of the correspondence polemic with the Rogozins, the following counterarguments will be expressed, which do not at all claim to be an expert.

The problem of enemy quadcopters hovering at heights inaccessible to shotgun fire from the ground, performing the functions of scouts, spotters, repeaters and even bombers, can be quite simply solved by raising the shotgun into the sky, closer to the target.


A certain evil irony lies in the fact that there is no need to invent anything, spending time and money on R&D; everything has already been invented a long time ago. The Almaz-Antey defense holding has long developed, tested and even patented an interceptor drone of a curious design, which is a flying semi-automatic 12-gauge Vepr-Molot smoothbore carbine that fires both bullets and shot. Thanks to its tiltrotor-type design, the drone easily takes off and lands vertically, is capable of staying in the air for up to 40 minutes and successfully shooting down other aerial targets.

Compact, lightweight and easy to control by an operator from the ground, such “flying shotguns” could become a real threat to enemy low-speed quadcopters. In extreme cases, having exhausted its ammunition, such a microplane can be used as a ram against the Ukrainian “Baba Yaga”. The exchange will still be in our favor.

Regarding the “Royal Wolves” arguments against smoothbore shotguns for hunting FPV drones, the following counterarguments can be made.

At first, a high density of anti-aircraft fire can be achieved by firing in bursts. About the fact that it is possible to make automatic shotguns on the basis of the Saiga and Vepr smooth-bore carbines, created on the basis of the Kalashnikov assault rifle and machine gun, respectively, without any special problems. told earlier.


If not 1-2, but 10-20 shot charges fly towards an FPV drone, the probability of its successful destruction will increase by an order of magnitude.

Secondly, the mentioned “nerves of iron” in fighters, necessary for effective anti-aircraft fire from personal weapons, can and even need to be developed through targeted training. It is already obvious that the standards for shooting training in the army and special services need to be adjusted, with an emphasis on hitting high-speed air targets. The basis for acquiring relevant skills can be clay pigeon shooting, where something like this is taught professionally and purposefully. At a minimum, it is worth engaging experienced specialists in this specific shooting as instructors.


Yes, the speed of an FPV drone is higher than that of a saucer, and it can fly by maneuvering. Therefore, the next logical step seems to be the emergence of a new discipline, where shooters and operators will compete with each other. In order not to waste a huge amount of cartridges and plates to train hundreds of thousands of shooters, it will be easier to create training guns (machine guns) and drones equipped with an electronic hit detection system.

Then FPV drone operators will be able, on the one hand, to hone their skills in controlling and attacking a moving ground target, and training shooters will be able, on their part, to practice their skills in hitting high-speed maneuverable air targets.
The benefit will be double. But who should do this?

The main message so far sounds like this: do it yourself, prove it and deliver it on a platter.
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  1. Paul3390 Offline Paul3390
    Paul3390 (Paul) 29 January 2024 11: 46
    +1
    Compact, lightweight and easy to control by an operator from the ground, such “flying shotguns”

    Interesting - has the author ever shot with a 12 gauge? And even with a magnum, because sporting, like in roller skates, won’t work here? Here I have - just the Vepr-12, I assure you - its recoil of any type will blow away a light drone all the way to Rostov.. A load of 46 grams of buckshot plus at least 2.2 gunpowder will break its flying carrier in one go.. Well, or the drone is already much more solid it should be. I won’t say anything about the fact that the Boar with a tambourine weighs more than 6 kilos.
    1. Beidodir Offline Beidodir
      Beidodir (Beidodir) 29 January 2024 11: 51
      0
      Here I have - just Vepr-12, I assure you - its recoil of any type will blow away a light drone all the way to Rostov..

      Why then doesn’t it blow away in the video? Why do those who are fired on fall, and not the one who fires? How can you explain?

      Interesting - has the author ever shot with a 12 gauge? And even a magnum, because sporting, like in roller skates, won’t work here? Here I have - just Vepr-12,

      Well, those people in Almaz-Antey, what stupid inventors, don’t understand a thing about weapons Yes They are also filing some patents.
      1. Paul3390 Offline Paul3390
        Paul3390 (Paul) 29 January 2024 12: 00
        +2
        Once again - did you shoot yourself? Definitely not - otherwise I wouldn’t be talking such nonsense. Is there a difference - a man under 100 kg, or like a light drone, as they offer here? Plus - sporting with a weight of 25 grams, which is so famously machine-gunned in roller skates, is completely different than a magnum. It is comfortable for jars and flimsy plastic plates up to 30 meters - but no more. And from a magnum - even with my hundredweight, if I shoot a couple of dozen, I still have a bruise. And here it’s like a drone. Not funny. Theorists.

        Besides - what to equip with? If there is an embankment of buckshot, then after the same 30 meters it will already dissipate. And if it’s in a container, it won’t open right away either. Here you need to clearly maintain a distance. And all this - from a flying drone at a flying target? OK, try..
        1. Beidodir Offline Beidodir
          Beidodir (Beidodir) 29 January 2024 12: 04
          -4
          Once again - did you shoot yourself? Definitely not - otherwise I wouldn’t be talking such nonsense.

          First of all, don't poke me.

          Is there a difference - a man under 100 kg, or like a light drone, as they offer here? Plus - sporting with a weight of 25 grams, which is so famously machine-gunned in roller skates, is completely different than a magnum. It is comfortable for jars and flimsy plastic plates up to 30 meters - but no more. And from a magnum - even with my hundredweight, if I shoot a couple of dozen, I still have a bruise. And here it’s like a drone. Not funny. Theorists.

          Secondly, a link to your personal experience is of no interest to anyone here. What practical relationship do you have with weapons development?
          There is a video of how it works. For armchair experts like you, which refutes your great empirical experience.
          If desired, a link to the patent was immediately found
          https://new.fips.ru/registers-doc-view/fips_servlet?DB=RUDE&rn=7676&DocNumber=113562&QID=504E2C67-B95A-4BFD-BBCA-385FFC46BF01&TypeFile=html
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Nike Offline Nike
            Nike (Nikolai) 29 January 2024 12: 35
            +3
            How many years has the Okhotnik UAV been in development? 10?15? and there is no end in sight to developments. How many years would it take for “theorists” to develop protection for tanks from drones? Probably by the end of the war (or by the end of funding) something would have been welded together. Your theories are to the nth place, they would throw you into the trenches and they would manage to shoot you down with a slingshot when your life is at stake, and you can reason while lying on the sofa.
          3. Nike Offline Nike
            Nike (Nikolai) 29 January 2024 12: 42
            +3
            When, during the Second World War, the Americans needed the mass production of transport ships, they clearly refused the services of professional shipbuilders with their traditions and troubles, as a result of which the last ship, the Liberty, was built in 26 days.
            Is the conclusion clear?
          4. begemot20091 Offline begemot20091
            begemot20091 (begemot20091) 30 January 2024 10: 56
            0
            back in the shaggy year of 1977, I saw drawings of shells (not ours) with disks that stand in a cloud, rise or fall in front of a flying target. I don’t remember the exact caliber, but something like Oerlikon pops up in my memory. The expelling charge spins them up when detonated. And this cloud “closes its mouth” for a few seconds, just like balloons had a snare.
        2. Beidodir Offline Beidodir
          Beidodir (Beidodir) 29 January 2024 12: 16
          +1
          Besides - what to equip with? If there is an embankment of buckshot, then after the same 30 meters it will already dissipate. And if it’s in a container, it won’t open right away either. Here you need to clearly maintain a distance.

          What are the distances there?

          And all this - from a flying drone at a flying target? OK, try..

          You better think about how you and your hundred will then dodge Ukrainian drones if you are called up for mobilization.
          1. Paul3390 Offline Paul3390
            Paul3390 (Paul) 29 January 2024 12: 22
            +1
            And you will have to decide at the moment in the place - which ones. It is somewhat doubtful that it would be possible to accurately determine the distance from a camera on the fly..

            Don’t worry about me - at my height of 186, my weight is normal, I have no fat and no belly. Worry about yourself.
            1. Commissioner Catani (Alexander ) 8 February 2024 14: 21
              -1
              Dear, stop the bad thing, to whom are you making excuses? He will cover himself with a patent, so
          2. JD1979 Offline JD1979
            JD1979 (Dmitriy) 29 January 2024 13: 12
            -1
            Quote: Beydodyr
            What are the distances there?

            you won’t believe it, they’re different)), so it’s difficult to choose some kind of universal method and divergence distances.

            Quote: Beydodyr
            You better think about how you and your hundred will then dodge Ukrainian drones if you are called up for mobilization.

            Show me by personal example)) make a video, and we’ll practice. Or weak?
            1. skeptic Offline skeptic
              skeptic 30 January 2024 10: 04
              +1
              Quote: JD1979
              you won’t believe it, they’re different)), so it’s difficult to choose some kind of universal method and divergence distances.

              One thing is for sure, that before LBS, every fighter must acquire the skills of shooting at UAVs and dodging individual drone attacks. This will reduce “drone fear” and reduce losses.
      2. Flight Offline Flight
        Flight (Von) 29 January 2024 13: 29
        +1
        Blows away...

  2. JD1979 Offline JD1979
    JD1979 (Dmitriy) 29 January 2024 12: 54
    +5
    This idea was criticized by Alexei Rogozin, the son of the famous “Tsar’s Wolf” Dmitry Rogozin.

    In general, it’s better for this “expert not to open his mouth”

    The Wolves expert gives the following arguments in his reasoning...

    This expert was probably also taken from the macramé circle, because he doesn’t know about AK-based carbines, and indeed similar systems in general, on which normal sights can be installed, significantly increasing shooting efficiency. Not to mention the fact that the accuracy of the shot can be adjusted. That drones are not ducks is also unknown to humans. Dropping drones are practically motionless for quite a long time, unlike a duck, and there is enough time to unload several magazines into it as in a shooting range, the main problem is its low visibility. The difficulty of defeating small kamikaze drones controlled by virpils again lies in low visibility and late detection, when there are only a few seconds left, but again, it flies towards the target, the angular speeds are low, in fact you need to fire at it, an automatic carbine is just that.

    In order not to waste a huge amount of cartridges and plates to train hundreds of thousands of shooters, it will be easier to create training guns (machine guns) and drones equipped with an electronic hit detection system.

    Here, rather, it is necessary to create full-fledged shooting range complexes, as for anti-aircraft gunners or MANPADS crews. If all hit sensors are based on detecting radiation, which eliminates training in taking the correct lead. It will be a computer shooter, nothing more. And you can’t improve your proficiency with real weapons at a shooting range with a flashlight. So IMHO “plates” are just right. You cannot build training complexes in every part.

    The main message so far sounds like this: do it yourself, prove it and deliver it on a platter.

    A long time ago they could have issued a pair of carbines per squad or platoon to collect statistics, but not according to the regulations, not accepted for service, there is no order from above, too lazy to move - emphasize what is necessary. And here the Armed Forces of Ukraine completely bypass the RA, with the speed of decision-making, no matter how anyone likes it.
  3. Flight Offline Flight
    Flight (Von) 29 January 2024 13: 22
    0
    This idea was criticized by Alexei Rogozin, the son of the famous “Tsar’s Wolf” Dmitry Rogozin. Since Rogozin the son previously headed a gunpowder plant, was vice president for transport aviation of PJSC United Aircraft Corporation, general director of the S.V. Ilyushin Aviation Complex and deputy director of the Department of Property Relations of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, his opinion means something .
    That is, Mr. Rogozin, admitting that he may not be entirely right, invites someone else to conduct the appropriate tests and convince him.

    The apple never falls far from the tree.

    MOSCOW, July 13 – RIA Novosti. SpaceX founder Elon Musk responded to a tweet by Roscosmos CEO Dmitry Rogozin, who called on Russian billionaires to invest in the development of space technologies.
    After the suborbital flight of British billionaire Richard Branson, Rogozin wrote on Twitter that he hopes that “one day our billionaire oligarchs will begin to spend their money not on yet another yachts and vanity fairs, but on the development of space technologies and knowledge about space.”

    Musk responded with two applause emojis.
  4. Midshipman Offline Midshipman
    Midshipman (Sergei) 29 January 2024 13: 51
    +2
    You need to shoot balls with a net - the likelihood that the net will wrap around the screws is much higher than being shot down by shot.
    1. Accidentally Offline Accidentally
      Accidentally 29 January 2024 15: 17
      +1
      Have you ever shot at a duck flying and making an anti-aircraft maneuver... try to hit it and then crow
      1. Nike Offline Nike
        Nike (Nikolai) 29 January 2024 17: 10
        0
        No problem, at the beginning of the hunt there were some misses, but over time the eye and hand shoot accurately.
    2. Sergey5082 Offline Sergey5082
      Sergey5082 (Sergei) 29 January 2024 17: 30
      +2
      In the north, geese were killed with tied buckshot. A container containing buckshot tied with fishing line.
  5. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 29 January 2024 13: 52
    0
    Wah!
    A long series of sentence-notes describing how it should be?
    Does the author have experience shooting a pistol, shotgun, clay pigeon shooting, or designing (with strength materials) UAVs? I don't think so, I didn't mention it anywhere
    Did you guess right, no, with the conclusions? Unclear

    It seems that the experimental installation of shotguns on drones was written about a year and a half ago?
    result? Did not met.

    Conclusion.....
    Maybe use a smoke blower? instead of a fraction?
  6. Midshipman Offline Midshipman
    Midshipman (Sergei) 29 January 2024 13: 55
    +3
    In general, against drones, especially with AI, against which electronic warfare is useless, only means based on similar principles will be effective: an optical-location station with AI and a weapon, at least the same shotgun with burst fire. As an option, a compact directed EMP generator to burn electronics.
  7. PacTyx Offline PacTyx
    PacTyx (Vladimir) 29 January 2024 14: 04
    +5
    Buy a 12 gauge and shoot buckshot. And may you be happy. Today, in “close combat” with light drones, this is my opinion, there is nothing known more effective than 12 buckshot. Well, if there is, then WHERE IS IT??? Therefore, 12th is better than nothing!
    1. k_nru Offline k_nru
      k_nru (Nikolai Kotov) 30 January 2024 15: 25
      0
      What about 4 gauge? It's not meant to be?
  8. DO Offline DO
    DO (Dmitriy) 29 January 2024 17: 10
    +1
    Any weapon with a shortened barrel, and especially an under-barrel device with a barrel whose length is unlikely to exceed 200-250 mm, is unable to hit a UAV even at close distances due to the low speed of throwing the striking elements.

    So, the speed of throwing striking elements depends not only on the length of the barrel, but also on the characteristics of the charge (and the corresponding strength of the barrel and grenade launcher attachment).
    A hand-held shotgun or grenade launcher is a fighter’s last individual anti-drone weapon when attacked by an enemy kamikaze drone.

    Regarding the difficulty of hitting an enemy drone with a hand-held shotgun.
    The author has already said about the need for training in short-range shooting from hand-held shotguns/grenade launchers.
    However, it seems that there is a need for accelerated development of compact stationary devices, with automatic guidance (optical, radar) and a range finder, firing a shot charge, a shrapnel grenade with a programmable auto-detonation timer, or a cheaper small-sized missile (depending on the distance to the target). The easiest way to implement this function is in the form of separate devices, each for its own range:
    1) OLS + shooting with a shot charge;
    2) OLS + rangefinder + shooting shrapnel grenades with a programmable auto-detonation timer;
    3) Radar + mini-missiles.
    Each of these shooters must have dimensions and weight suitable for carrying by a pair of fighters, and for transportation using an agricultural walk-behind tractor with a trailer for a passenger car. The ammunition, apparently, should be placed in a separately transportable container. The remote power supply device is the third container.
    Self-guided shooters are useful as a second line of layered defense against enemy drones.

    To the anti-drone agents mentioned by the author, one should add a drone-net launcher from Almaz-Antey https://mosregtoday.ru/news/sec/voennyj-ekspert-rasskazal-o-novom-bespilotnike-volk-18/ - “Wolf 18” with an onboard optical-location system capable of automatically identifying and eliminating enemy drones. It is advisable to use it as the first line of layered defense against small propeller-driven drones.
    1. DO Offline DO
      DO (Dmitriy) 29 January 2024 20: 22
      +1
      PS
      The sequence of development and implementation of stationary auto-guided shooters seems to be as follows:
      1a) shrapnel grenades with a programmable auto-detonation timer;
      1b) ground shooting with a compactly packed reticle, with a programmable delay for its wide opening, is still possible; At the same time, the destruction of one’s own fighters by shrapnel is excluded; choice 1b) is not obvious due to the rapid deceleration of the mesh, unlike shrapnel, someone’s experience or experiments are needed here;
      2) mini-missiles with auto-guidance to the reflected radar signal;
      3) buckshot from the barrel.
    2. k_nru Offline k_nru
      k_nru (Nikolai Kotov) 30 January 2024 16: 27
      +1
      I wanted to join this author as offering the most realistic ways to combat UAVs. Now you can write about yourself as “sofa dreamer”.
      And so: right there somewhere on the site there was an article about the invention of a contactless fuse for anti-aircraft shells back in 1940 by the Americans. Most of the proposed measures use modern optical-location technology. In no way do I dispute these proposals; the only thing I can point out is that this is not an infantryman’s weapon. In all the proposals available here, I have not seen any use of acoustic methods for finding a target. And so what I propose is the use of small-caliber missiles with a non-contact acoustic fuse. Doppler's laws have not been changed, both for radio and for acoustic waves, which means it is possible (and necessary) to make a contactless fuse using acoustics.
      Here in the Russian Federation it’s a little difficult with open literature on jet engines. If there were parameters for such engines, it would be possible to calculate and propose to manufacture a small rocket with fragmentation ammunition and an acoustic explosion system, as well as with a timer for destruction in case of a miss. You can also suggest using standard RPG-7 with appropriate ammunition. But according to the RPG-7, there is information that when shooting in a prone position and in an incorrect position of the legs, there were cases of heels being torn off the shoes. So, when shooting at the top, there may be problems. To this we can add that the mass of the projectile for the RPG-7 can be increased since shooting at a UAV does not involve a long distance.
      1. DO Offline DO
        DO (Dmitriy) 30 January 2024 19: 39
        +1
        k_nru (Nikolai Kotov),

        Quote: k_nru
        Most of the proposed measures use modern optical-location technology. In no way do I dispute these proposals; the only thing I can point out is that this is not an infantryman’s weapon.

        The individual weapon of an infantryman is a grenade launcher that fires shrapnel, or a shotgun (however, EVERY infantryman is unlikely to want to carry a heavy self-loading shotgun; you can only train and assign one soldier from the group to use it). You can also mention American mesh guns, which are even larger than a shotgun.
        Everything else is future stationary (or towed, or self-propelled) and UAVs - anti-drone layered "mini-air defense" systems.

        As for the ultrasonic air sonar built into the anti-drone missile (let's call it "Bat" :)), resistant to fog, clouds and smoke (but it is difficult to say how it will work in the presence of precipitation drumming on the missile), it can theoretically be used not only for contactless detonation of the missile, but also for its auto-guidance at the final section of the trajectory. However, this question should probably be directed to erudite anti-aircraft missile specialists.
        1. DO Offline DO
          DO (Dmitriy) 30 January 2024 21: 28
          +2
          PS
          Thinking again about the infantryman’s individual weapon:
          If an attacking kamikaze drone flies at a fighter, then probably the simplest and most effective means of destroying the drone by a fighter is a direct shot with large shot/buckshot.
          However, what should a fighter do if a drone is hovering above him at a height inaccessible to buckshot and intends to drop a grenade or aim a mortar/artillery? It’s impossible to hit with a machine gun, so the only thing that can help a fighter here is a mini-missile, precisely launched from a grenade launcher, which hovers at the target at the final part of the trajectory. The principle of homing is clearer to specialists - it can be optical, radar, or acoustic, as Nikolay Kotov suggested above (maybe including simple homing to the noise of the drone’s propellers?). The easiest way to hit a target is with a grapeshot grenade, but the grapeshot can fall painfully on both the shooter and his comrades. Therefore, perhaps, we should consider the option of a compactly packed mesh, which, when approaching the target, opens when the squib is triggered, with flying metal guide balls.
          1. DO Offline DO
            DO (Dmitriy) 31 January 2024 13: 05
            0
            PS-2
            The order of development, production and implementation of individual infantry anti-drone weapons
            1) Obviously, for arming EVERY soldier on the front line, an assault rifle grenade launcher is best suited.
            2) Of the two solutions, a buckshot shot and a homing small missile, the homing missile is most likely the priority (see comment below by Nikolaevich I (Vladimir)). Because it can work at any distance, starting from high target altitudes, and due to homing it forgives the shooter for non-critical aiming errors. And since the distance can be short, it is dangerous to use a grape grenade; a mesh that opens with a squib when the rocket approaches the target is preferable. Each of the principles of missile homing and measuring distance to a target has its own advantages and disadvantages. For any weather, an active radar seeker is most likely better suited.
            It is clear that a relatively complex missile is significantly more expensive than a simple shrapnel shot. However, since several of these missiles are needed by each frontline fighter, the scale of their production must be large, which will reduce the cost per unit.
          2. imjarek Offline imjarek
            imjarek (imjarek) 31 January 2024 15: 49
            0
            What about a light mortar that fires a pack of buckshot instead of the classic mortar shell? A simple anti-aircraft sight, recoil through the plate directly into the ground, charge power - as much as your heart desires.
            1. imjarek Offline imjarek
              imjarek (imjarek) 31 January 2024 15: 50
              0
              And, as an option, 6 trunks and the whole sky in parrots!
            2. DO Offline DO
              DO (Dmitriy) 1 February 2024 23: 17
              0
              What about a light mortar that fires a pack of buckshot instead of the classic mortar shell? A simple anti-aircraft sight...

              There is one doubt. The drone is flying fast, will the classic adjustment of the mortar barrel, which was not originally designed for fast guidance, keep up with it? A fast electric servo drive could solve this problem, but creating one from scratch takes time.
              Here it would be nice to take a closer look at the ready-made servos of existing barrel-mounted air defense systems.
  9. Owl Offline Owl
    Owl (Philip) 29 January 2024 20: 06
    +2
    Firing bursts from a 12-gauge shotgun while holding it in a “standing” or “kneeling” position results in a giant bounce of the barrel due to recoil. Quickly, with single shots, using a collimator sight and grapeshot ammunition, there is a high probability of hitting an attacking UAV.
  10. Nikolaevich I Offline Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I (Vladimir) 29 January 2024 21: 52
    +2
    1. Mini-missiles: a) 40-mm “Pike” with a laser guidance system, fired from a grenade launcher. Possibly with a “photoelectric” seeker (Chinese terminology)... b) 40-mm MNTK with a semi-active or active radar seeker. ..laser and thermal imaging seekers are possible... a container with 15 TPK and a detection and guidance unit... it is possible to make a “distributed” placement at the position of 15 TPK!
    2. New rocket-propelled "under-barrel" grenade GPR-20 with a range of up to 800 m...damage radius -20 m...it is possible to create remote-detonated beam-fragmentation ammunition...
    3. "Reanimation" of the 7-barrel 30-mm "MANPADS" "Kolos" with remote detonation ammunition...
    4. a) “Anti-drone” UAVs launched “from hand”! b) “Anti-drone” UAVs, consisting of a multi-rotor tethered platform + an aircraft-type interceptor... as if forming an “aerial minefield”...
    1. imjarek Offline imjarek
      imjarek (imjarek) 31 January 2024 16: 03
      0
      You can also use a “swivel-propelled apparatus” (a bullet with a propeller “rushes”)
  11. Yuri L Offline Yuri L
    Yuri L (Yuri) 29 January 2024 22: 58
    +1
    Due to the fact that there are already more drones than flies on the LBS, the idea of ​​​​using a “super shotgun” - MON mine is quite viable. Imagine, the electronic filling from a PVM (anti-helicopter) mine with an additional addition for use against UAVs The working body is not an impact core, but the mine MON 200 or MON 90, only hits upward. From 2000 cylinders in the mine, I think more than one drone will be hit at once when aimed at the center of the swarm, and the mine will especially warn about sudden attacks by the swarm, and it hits much higher than a shotgun. How the anti-drone protection option makes sense, even if it’s not exactly cheap
    1. Flight Offline Flight
      Flight (Von) 30 January 2024 03: 30
      +2
      The problem with hitting a drone with an automatic weapon is the difficulty of adjusting the firing at a flying object. To improve fire adjustment, it is good to use tracer ammunition. It’s not difficult to have at least one horn with tracer cartridges with you.
    2. ROM1077 Offline ROM1077
      ROM1077 (Hunter) 30 January 2024 16: 02
      0
      How do you point this mine at a drone without a radar? The farmer Baba Yaga usually only bombs at night, you can’t even see him..
    3. imjarek Offline imjarek
      imjarek (imjarek) 31 January 2024 15: 58
      0
      Mina can do her own...at the same time. I'm telling you, a light mortar, instead of a mine - a container with buckshot, a simple anti-aircraft sight. Charge - maximum permissible, recoil -
      through the base plate into the ground.
  12. Michael 68 Offline Michael 68
    Michael 68 30 January 2024 07: 39
    +1
    I'll have my say. There is no need to look for a solution that will allow you to shoot down any drones. We need to ask about experience from the front lines. I know that he exists. And this experience is a personal initiative. In some places supported by their commanders. Let those from the front line share it. For interest, you can also read Ukrainian resources. And don’t forget that drones are different. And that means different solutions.
    1. Flight Offline Flight
      Flight (Von) 30 January 2024 10: 16
      0
      And who cares about their experience in mo? The Americans have been using drones since the 2000s... Aaand, what did I propose for the army? Tank biathlon. We had some fun with our partners and decided that they would win everyone. They will win.
  13. ROM1077 Offline ROM1077
    ROM1077 (Hunter) 30 January 2024 15: 52
    +1
    I don’t agree that shotguns are ineffective; the same AA-20, which fires bursts of 12k cartridges with buckshot, will easily destroy an approaching FPV drone in flight.. Judging by the video, the drones operating on our armored vehicles are quite vulnerable to a person specially mounted on the armor with such a shotgun.
  14. AC130 Gunship Offline AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship (Gennady) 30 January 2024 16: 56
    +2
    I regularly shoot 12 gauge at clay pigeons and ducks. There will be a chance to hit with shot at 25-30 meters. From 50 - almost impossible
  15. Insolent in a jacket 30 January 2024 20: 32
    0
    ...In general, the situation may be even an order of magnitude (minimum) more serious than it seems...
    Indeed, progress in the field of high (Already: HIGHEST!) technologies is accelerating incredibly... Work is also being carried out constantly and at a frantic pace to simplify technologies, reduce the cost of production of products - the results of the introduction of these technologies...
    ...What our enemies are harping on in their Scientific Research Centers-kitchens... is perhaps even scary to imagine...
    Moreover, in many decisive areas of scientific and technological progress (STP) the Russian Federation lagged behind, is lagging behind, or, to tell the terrible truth, risks falling behind (If this has not already happened.) FOREVER...

    ...And now let’s imagine that not ordinary bipedal “cyborgs”, with the usual weapons and protection, are running to attack our trenches (Or to meet our attacking Valiant attack aircraft), but swarms of super modern, fast, super-maneuverable (nimble) ones are flying like ordinary flies) smart small drones, with appropriate weapons..., ranging from ordinary explosive charges to some kind of automatic systems with rocket-propelled bullets...
    How they fly in flocks (literally several per one of our warriors) into our trenches, or, maneuvering sharply, fly over them, shooting or blowing up everything that gets in their way...
    To this should be added FPV tanks... (Formidable crewless combat vehicles controlled from a distance...) Attacks by FPV assault helicopters, etc...

    Operators of drones, robotic tanks, and FPV assault helicopters are located tens of miles from the front line (FBL) and calmly fight the battle, controlling their deadly high-tech products...

    Our electronic warfare systems may turn out to be useless, since the enemy uses other technical means of controlling equipment at a distance...

    And only after the attack of the robots - to finish off the survivors and the wounded - do ordinary cyborgen Soldaten advance...

    ...You say - stupid fantasies that have no basis in reality?..

    In response, I will say - even from the war in Karabakh - the SVO differs like the Wehrmacht T-3 of XNUMX - from the Royal Tiger of XNUMX!..
    Or like our T - 34 from IS -3!..
  16. GR777 Offline GR777
    GR777 (GR777) 30 January 2024 21: 30
    +3
    Guys shoot and shoot down drones even with machine guns. I advise every fighter to have a magazine with tracer ammunition - these are easier to shoot down.
    1. Yuras Offline Yuras
      Yuras (Yuras) 31 January 2024 17: 32
      -1
      GR777 Great! Here it is in action, that same quote “Truth is born in disputes”; all that remains is to create a compact new small machine by trial and error. Magazine for 100 - 200 rounds, reduce the size of the cartridge to balance the visibility distance and speed of guaranteed destruction (with heavy fire anywhere) with a steel bullet core. A newly created small barrel, made with a small additional casing for pouring 100 grams of coolant into it (if problems with the barrel are identified during continuous shooting). Any version has a place in life until it is refuted or confirmed by the practice of numerous tests. If even one soldier (especially a wounded one), lying in the medical battalion, says: if only it weren’t for such a machine gun, I should be lying in another place, and not here on the bed, then I’ll say - yes to this machine gun. And I understand Dmitry Rogozin, being at the post of Roscosmos, just like in the army (not required by the state) he was locked within certain limits (and financial ones too), hence probably the gloating and words about the trampoline, and Musk’s reusable stage made a controlled descent onto the platform . Probably this is the kind of humor from him like in the movie All-In: Kramer (Rogozin) shows his ear to the herring (nothing will work), and Quinto’s team - Dane (Musk) after numerous attempts produces a successful result and the famous phrase: - Ahh... Cholera is clear. In general, having created gunpowder and then a cannon, they didn’t put anything there to achieve the result. Take, for example, two cannonballs connected by a chain, cutting or breaking a thick mast in half. Kamikaze drones and two to three seconds, I am guided only by the video where a soldier, having missed a machine gun, waves his arms and sharply falls to the ground, and the missed kamikaze drone (let it be 10-12 meters) explodes without causing him harm.