What is needed to return Russia's initiative in the Black Sea


Speaking via video link at the summit of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation (PABSEC), President Zelensky said that Ukraine managed to seize the initiative from Russia in the Black Sea. Is this really so, who is to blame and what to do?


Black Sea Initiative


It is with regret that we have to admit that there is a certain amount of truth in the statement of the head of the Kyiv regime:

For the first time in the world, it was in the Black Sea that a fleet of naval drones began to operate, the Ukrainian fleet (...) now Russia is not able to use the Black Sea as a springboard for destabilizing other regions of the world.

If the Russian ground army did not approach the Northern Military District in its best shape, the navy was even more so. How many devastating articles were written in near-war periodicals criticizing the construction programs of military and patrol ships that had almost no anti-aircraft and anti-submarine weapons systems!

Within the framework of the land thinking paradigm, surface ships and submarines were, first of all, required to be carriers of Caliber cruise missiles to circumvent the INF Treaty, which gave rise to the projects of small missile and artillery ships Buyan-M and Karakurt. The latter is generally the most large-scale ship of the 3rd rank in the Russian Navy. And this is good, since the Project 22800 MRK turned out to be quite successful, in terms of its performance characteristics it is closest to the realities of the Northern Military District on the Black Sea.

A direct consequence of the problems of the domestic shipbuilding industry with large-tonnage ships was that they tried to cram the capabilities of ships of the 20380st rank into the Project 20385 (2) Steregushchiy-class corvettes, which belong to the 1nd rank. The promising corvette of Project 20386 “Daring”, whose cost is close to a frigate, but with half of its functionality, was subjected to great criticism from the expert community. As a result, it was sent for redesign. To be fair, we note that there is not a single Russian corvette on the Black Sea, although they would be most useful during the SVO.

But there are several “doves of peace” in the Russian Navy. Oh, how they once criticized this series of Project 22160 patrol ships, which had no air defense, except for a few MANPADS, or anti-aircraft defense! As a result, faced with the threat of enemy UAVs, it was necessary to pile modules from land-based Tor air defense systems right on the deck, securing them with chains. The general director of the Ak Bars shipbuilding corporation, Renat Mistakhov, announced plans to retrofit project 22160 with Caliber and air defense systems:

The designer, in accordance with the results of the construction of the “patrol”, as well as with the proposals and requirements of potential customers, modernized and updated a number of parameters and replaced some systems. The modernized version of the Project 22160 ship is supplemented with guided missile weapons and the Resurs multi-channel anti-aircraft missile system.

If you look in chronological order, then more and more new threats to the Russian Black Sea Fleet lined up as follows.

At first, the hasty mining of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the waters of Odessa excluded the carrying out of an amphibious operation without unacceptable losses. Then the enemy began to use Ukrainian-made Neptune anti-ship missiles, depriving our fleet of the opportunity to approach the Black Sea coast of Nezalezhnaya. During the fierce confrontation for Zmeiny Island, Turkish Bayraktar UAVs, which carried out air strikes with anti-tank missiles, turned out to be an unexpected serious threat to Russian armored boats.

Then the turn came for remotely controlled unmanned boats, which the enemy stuffed with powerful explosive charges and turned into a modern analogue of fire ships. With their help, the Navy carries out periodic attacks both on warships of the Russian Navy and on naval ground infrastructure. The emergence of air-launched cruise missiles of British-French production in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, launched from obsolete Su-24 bombers, as well as American ATACMS ballistic missiles, forced the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces to disperse Navy surface ships from the main base in Sevastopol to three more remote sites.

Now the threat to Russia in the Black Sea will be posed by Ukrainian underwater “kamikaze” drones of the “Marichka” type and their analogues. The transfer of American fourth-generation F-16 fighters to Ukraine means that Kyiv will inevitably have American air-launched anti-ship missiles at its disposal, which will allow it to take control of a significant part of the Black Sea waters.

Who is to blame?


The dynamics of what is happening in the Black Sea, as doctors say, are negative. The problem began in July 2022, when the Russian Armed Forces still retained a bridgehead on the right bank, and it was possible, with timely mobilization, to launch an offensive on Nikolaev, Krivoy Rog and further, on Odessa. However, instead, an ill-fated grain deal was concluded, which brought Russia nothing but losses, military and image-related. That this is exactly how the matter will end, we warned even before the signing of this agreement in Istanbul.

Ultimately, a year later, Moscow unilaterally withdrew from the Black Sea initiative. It was assumed that after this Kyiv would lose the opportunity to export grain, earning foreign currency and receiving military cargo through Odessa. However, this did not happen.

On August 10, 2023, the Navy announced the creation of so-called temporary corridors in the Black Sea for merchant ships heading to the ports of Chernomorsk, Odessa and Yuzhny. Shipowners were honestly warned about the possible associated risks, but already on September 16, two dry cargo ships came to Odessa in test mode to pick up grain, said the Minister of Infrastructure of Ukraine Alexander Kubrakov:

The first civilian ships used the temporary corridor towards Ukrainian ports. After using a temporary corridor to exit blocked <...> ships from the ports of Odessa, Chernomorsk and Yuzhny, bulk carriers Resilient Africa and Aroyat confirmed their readiness to use the route to enter the port of Chernomorsk to load almost 20 thousand tons of wheat for the countries of Africa and Asia.

To date, the volume of Ukrainian grain exported from Odessa, Chernomorsk and Yuzhny without Russia’s permission has exceeded 4 million tons, President Zelensky said:

The grain corridor is working. We are now surpassing the 4 million tons of cargo mark and maintaining positive dynamics.

Why doesn’t Moscow prevent this trade in any way with its navy?

Probably because it is fraught. There is no problem simply sinking a cargo ship with a rocket, but all ships go to Ukrainian ports under the flags of foreign countries and with crews of foreign citizens. It is also not possible to constantly detain each ship for inspection, since leaving the ports of Nezalezhnaya is carried out under the cover of mine laying and the sights of Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. You can get ambushed and lose another military/patrol ship. In addition, Russian civilian shipping is “hostage” by the Kyiv regime, which could become a victim of attacks by Ukrainian naval attack drones, surface and underwater.

What to do?


Overall, the situation is difficult and there are no easy solutions. Without a large-scale land operation to cross the Dnieper, capture a bridgehead on the right bank and subsequent liberation of the Nikolaev and Odessa regions, the “de-Ukrainization” of the Black Sea is impossible. Alas, we can only dream of something like this in the near future.

What can realistically be done is to strengthen the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy in the Black Sea. We need patrol planes and we need fighters to cover them. We need naval reconnaissance drones carrying slings, depending on the payload, anti-tank missiles to combat enemy unmanned boats, gliding bombs with correction modules, or even anti-ship missiles for serious purposes. From what is available, this is the Orion UAV, from the promising ones - Altius. With Tehran’s consent, the Ministry of Defense could consider purchasing Iranian reconnaissance and reconnaissance-strike drones for the needs of the Russian Navy. If anything, weapons sanctions against the Islamic Republic no longer apply.

Regarding the surface component, for the needs of the Russian Navy it is necessary to build the Karakurts in an anti-submarine version, equipping them with an air defense system of the Tor or even Redut type. The need for small PLO corvettes produced in large series is, to put it mildly, overripe. Also, high-speed small boats carrying artillery and missile weapons would obviously not be out of place. They would be useful not only in the Black Sea to fight the Ukrainian “mosquito fleet”, but also in the Baltic.
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  1. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 (Victor) 18 November 2023 11: 57
    +12
    how to do this, the Kremlin grandfather sleeps and sees a peace treaty with the outskirts and Istanbul is a witness to this, not only does he not learn from other people’s history, he doesn’t even learn anything from his own
    1. Vldmir Smrnff Offline Vldmir Smrnff
      Vldmir Smrnff (Vldmir Smrnff) 18 November 2023 22: 26
      -2
      Kremlin grandfather sleeps and sees a peace treaty with the outskirts

      why do you think so ? Ukraine's meat resources are currently being ground. There are two meat sacks, Rabotino and Avdeevka. After all, you can destroy the enemy when he is in a bag from three sides (from both flanks and on the front line), and this is much more effective than hitting the enemy only on the front line. With such conduct of hostilities, the losses of those in the bag far exceed the losses of those who lured them into the bag. Exactly - Lured and take this bag with two attacks from the flanks into the cauldron, Putin is in no hurry (although he could have done this a long time ago). Firstly, any offensive means much greater losses, and secondly, you can stuff so much stuff in these bags and at the same time avoid large losses on your part.
      And Odessa, Kharkov, Yekaterinoslav (today it is the Dnieper), they will be part of Russia in any case, there is not an iota of doubt about that. And sit down at the negotiating table when the enemy is already dying. I would also like to cut a corridor to Kaliningrad (Suwalki) at the same time, but it’s just a matter of luck. If the Poles don’t get into Ukraine, then it won’t be possible to cut a corridor, we won’t be the first to start THIS. And only if Poland provokes Russia by introducing its army into the territory of Ukraine, then only then will we have a precedent for cutting through a WINDOW to Kaliningrad.
      1. unparalleled Offline unparalleled
        unparalleled 19 November 2023 04: 36
        +4
        A funny epic, especially the nonsense about grinding. Well, okay, we’ll grind for 10 years, a cunning plan, yeah. Only in these 10 years will the new generation grow up
    2. The comment was deleted.
  2. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 18 November 2023 12: 04
    -1
    Necessary, not necessary...
    Since everything is going this way, it means this is what the government needs.
    The nas have more power, and if desired, they demolished everything coastal to the lunar landscapes.
    And so - The task of demilitarization is being accomplished, the population of Ukraine is declining, the infrastructure is burning, money for the fleet is being used.
    New Planes, boats, helicopters, ships, etc.? so you need power, specialists, money, etc. But either it’s not, or it’s a pity - for the children and mothers-in-law of the “elite” abroad, all this is also oh so necessary.
  3. Flight Offline Flight
    Flight (voi) 18 November 2023 12: 18
    0
    We need patrol planes and we need fighters to cover them. We need naval reconnaissance drones carrying slings, depending on the payload, anti-tank missiles to combat enemy unmanned boats, gliding bombs with correction modules, or even anti-ship missiles for serious purposes. From what is available, this is the Orion UAV, from the promising ones - Altius.

    The owners will be happy to sell them. Start collecting funds. Because the budget of LLC RF is not rubber.
    Russia at Dubai Airshow 2023: a show that was not ordered
    https://topwar.ru/230331-rossija-na-dubai-airshow-2023-shou-kotoroe-ne-zakazyvali.html
  4. Colonel Kudasov Offline Colonel Kudasov
    Colonel Kudasov (Leopold) 18 November 2023 12: 43
    0
    I agree with the author. Naval aviation is the key to success in the World Cup. But it would be nice to add a powerful submarine fleet to this, so that every inch of the sea surface could be monitored. Perhaps now the traditional surface part of the Black Sea Fleet looks redundant
  5. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 18 November 2023 13: 07
    +3
    Are two UDCs being built in Kerch necessary in the current realities? The plant is under constant threat of air attacks.

    For comparison: 100 billion rubles were allocated for the construction of two UDCs. The cost of one “karakurt” is about 2 billion rubles. And they are built much faster and in safer areas.
  6. strange guest Offline strange guest
    strange guest (Strange Guest) 18 November 2023 13: 35
    +1
    What if the Americans start supplying them with Orca? For testing in combat conditions? Then I don’t even know where the Black Sea Fleet will have to go. And naval aviation won’t help submarines either..
  7. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 18 November 2023 13: 36
    +4
    Answer. Need a goal. We need a strategy. The Russian Federation does not have this. We need to give everyone an answer, what will happen after the war with Ukraine? The Kremlin is afraid to answer any question.

    Strategy without tactics is the slowest path to victory. Tactics without strategy is just hustle before defeat

    - Sun Tzu.

    Russia has only one way out, complete Victory on the battlefield.
    It is necessary to legislate that the entire territory of Ukraine, within the 1975 borders, captured by the separatists with the help of NATO, is an integral part of Russia.
    In the presence of the Law, the NWO carried out by Russia in Ukraine is the liberation of the territory of Russia occupied by separatists, the restoration of the territorial integrity of Russia, the reunification of peoples, the inclusion of the economy, population, territory of Ukraine in the sphere of economic activity of Russia.
    The presence of the Law will lead to the rapid disappearance of the war in Ukraine, the civil war will end, people will stop killing each other.
    1. scolopendra Offline scolopendra
      scolopendra (Kirill Sazonov) 21 November 2023 20: 15
      0
      Haven't you moved yet? Hurry up, March is coming. You will sign your Decree in April.
  8. Mikhail Dadeko Offline Mikhail Dadeko
    Mikhail Dadeko (Mikhail Dadeko) 18 November 2023 13: 45
    +3
    Half an hour ago on Ren.TV they showed the dugout of our artillerymen at the front zone, a good, cozy dugout, all that was left was to invite the wives and children for leave! The Americans lost the war in Vietnam, one version, because the infantry were not given ice cream for lunch according to the menu, they did not want to go on the attack.
  9. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 18 November 2023 13: 45
    0
    First

    A direct consequence of the problems of the domestic shipbuilding industry with large-tonnage ships was that they tried to cram the capabilities of ships of the 20380st rank into the Project 20385 (2) Steregushchiy-class corvettes, which belong to the 1nd rank.

    Then

    Regarding the surface component, for the needs of the Russian Navy it is necessary to build Karakurts in an anti-submarine version, equipping them with air defense systems of the Tor or even Redut type.

    That is, cram at least the capabilities of a frigate onto an RTO?
  10. Beidodir Offline Beidodir
    Beidodir (Beidodir) 18 November 2023 14: 01
    +1
    Quote: Dart2027
    First

    A direct consequence of the problems of the domestic shipbuilding industry with large-tonnage ships was that they tried to cram the capabilities of ships of the 20380st rank into the Project 20385 (2) Steregushchiy-class corvettes, which belong to the 1nd rank.

    Then

    Regarding the surface component, for the needs of the Russian Navy it is necessary to build Karakurts in an anti-submarine version, equipping them with air defense systems of the Tor or even Redut type.

    That is, cram at least the capabilities of a frigate onto an RTO?

    This topic about Karakurt has been raised more than once. As far as I understand, we are talking about increasing its VI to 1,5 tons and creating a small PLO corvette or a small air defense corvette INSTEAD of an RTO. And not about it being an RTO with Redoubt and Answer.
    1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
      Dart2027 18 November 2023 15: 45
      0
      Quote: Beydodyr
      As far as I understand, we are talking about increasing its VI to 1,5 tons and creating a small PLO corvette or a small air defense corvette INSTEAD of an RTO. And not about it being an RTO with Redoubt and Answer.

      Then you just need to take the corvette project 20380, throw the helicopter hangar to hell, leaving the possibility of landing and refueling, make a bulb like the Turkish Ada corvettes (so that the draft is not almost 8 m, but 4), make the exhaust gases not through a hefty pipe, and how on the same RTOs or German corvettes (over the side), install a naval version of the Thor, or a stripped-down Redoubt (air defense for 15-20 km and that’s enough, immediately minus the cost of expensive radars) for 64 missiles, plus 8 Caliber launchers. The displacement will be reduced by 400-500 tons, the cost will be doubled, it will be possible to transfer from the BM to the WC and vice versa.

      And if you try to increase the RTO by more than 2 times, then it will be a completely new project with a bunch of childhood diseases and again an prohibitive construction period. The maximum that can be more or less quickly made from an RTO is an MPC.
      1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
        Dart2027 19 November 2023 12: 25
        +1
        great idea. but how long do corvettes take to be built? and Karakurt was developed in a large series at 3 factories

        True, but Zelenodolsk may well build them instead of small missiles, and simplifying the design will speed up the construction time.
  11. Sergei Fonov Offline Sergei Fonov
    Sergei Fonov (sergey fonov) 18 November 2023 16: 06
    +3
    The simplest thing is to destroy the base and production sites, as well as the entire berthing stock, for this we have not only today, but only yesterday everything was there. Taking into account the restoration, it will still cost less.
    1. sap Offline sap
      sap (Alex) 18 November 2023 20: 32
      0
      The only sane sensible comment. All the rest are Manilovism of couch X-farts.
  12. Vladimirus Offline Vladimirus
    Vladimirus (Vladimir) 18 November 2023 23: 53
    +3
    Until Ukraine is cut off from the Black Sea, we will be afraid for the World Cup fleet and for the bridge
  13. Edvid Offline Edvid
    Edvid 19 November 2023 00: 19
    0
    Quote: Colonel Kudasov
    I agree with the author. Naval aviation is the key to success in the World Cup. But it would be nice to add a powerful submarine fleet to this, so that every inch of the sea surface could be monitored. Perhaps now the traditional surface part of the Black Sea Fleet looks redundant

    I believe that it is necessary to create underwater systems for listening to the sea. The directions and zones of attacks from Ukraine (and possibly Romania/Bulgaria) have depths of about 300 meters. It is quite possible to “seed” with underwater anchored sonar buoys, which are not visible from the surface of the sea. Their arrangement can be any configuration, either in the form of a barrage chain (or several echelons) or in a checkerboard pattern. I don’t know about domestic developments of such devices. But when I sailed on special ships of the USSR in the seventies, the Americans bombarded us with similar buoys (both surface and underwater) from airplanes when we were drifting, to protect our stationary buoy station.
  14. unparalleled Offline unparalleled
    unparalleled 19 November 2023 04: 33
    0
    To effectively monitor the water area, drones are needed. And since drones are toys for children, according to the geniuses of the admirals general, there will be no drones. This means there will be no reconnaissance or monitoring of the situation at sea. The End
  15. Come in large numbers 19 November 2023 18: 29
    +5
    First, you need to take away the books of the philosopher Ilyin and the “historian” Medinsky from the leadership and return from fictional Russia to the real one. Then it will be easier.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. In passing Offline In passing
    In passing (Galina Rožkova) 21 November 2023 01: 15
    0
    They there, at the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet, only after it “flew” to them, realized that the war...
  18. Watching Offline Watching
    Watching (Alex) 21 November 2023 11: 27
    +4
    We have to admit that Ukrainians fight better. Either by their own talent, or by NATO, and all their promises are being fulfilled: there is a drone fleet, there is a defeat of the Black Russian Federation, there is Crimea and the Crimean Bridge under attack, Moscow and the rear are being bombed, there is practically a no-fly zone for the Russian Air Force over Ukraine, a breakthrough on the left bank has begun there is... What is there not? There is no “demilitarization/denazification”, no “NATO supplies will be destroyed”, the Kyiv regime has no fear. There is no pleasure in admitting all this, but facts are stubborn things. Gigantic miscalculations in this “operation” from the very beginning.
    1. Сors Offline Сors
      Сors (Vladimir) 22 November 2023 18: 12
      -1
      Don’t drive the wave, my dear. With some stretch, one could cry like that in October 22, but certainly not now. The Kiev regime has fear, compared to the strikes on Ukraine, the strikes on Moscow are nothing. They get Crimea, so the war, compare with Kharkov, Odessa, Khmelnitsky, etc. The “counter-offensive” showed how crests fight better. Besides you, the whole world has already realized that there is no chance for the Banderlogs, their masters suddenly started talking about a truce, or they were shouting about victory over Russia on the battlefield, you understand. You say such things in Ukraine, they will come there, don’t despair, in short. Don’t worry about all sorts of drones, in Russia they are also available and in larger quantities, and there is also authority for English boats. As for the role of the Black Sea Fleet, the last time he had the initiative was in the Black Sea during the Battle of Sinop. Subsequently, neither in the Crimea, nor in the First World War, nor in the Second World War until 1944, he did not own it, the geography and specifics of the theater are important, so to speak. It didn’t save the Nazis and it won’t save these ones, everything will be decided in the fields.
      1. mapok Offline mapok
        mapok (mapok) 22 November 2023 19: 53
        0
        What are you going to shoot down with these drones if Ukraine doesn’t have a fleet?))) Pride doesn’t allow me to admit that the World Cup is a total mess.
  19. Platon Verdictov 22 November 2023 13: 23
    0
    Attention subscribers! In connection with the change of the founder, editor-in-chief and journalists, the magazine “Mistress of Fate” will be published instead of the newspaper “Goremyka”.