European dream for Independence: what does Russia want from Ukraine?


A couple of days ago, a carrot was again waved in front of Kiev, symbolizing the hope for Ukraine to join the EU and receive, as it seems to it, all the “goodies” it is entitled to – for free, and so that no one leaves offended. But how is this even possible right during a special military operation by Russia?


Dream


We have already touched on this topic in one form or another several times. The key problem of the entire Russian foreign policy in relation to Ukraine since 1991, and especially after February 24, 2022, in the personal opinion of the author of these lines, is that our country does not have any real reintegration project for the post-Soviet space. But the “Western partners” have it for Ukrainian dreamers. Moreover, our geopolitical opponents have at least two competing projects for Independence Square.

First – this is a dream of the European Union and membership in NATO. Why a dream? Because war-torn and impoverished Ukraine is really not needed by anyone as part of the EU. Accepting it means hanging on your own necks the financial yoke of maintaining an absolutely corrupt and openly Nazi regime, to whose dirty deeds they turn a blind eye only during the war with Russia. From the real perspective, Square shines as a candidate for membership in the European Union, in which she will be able to remain indefinitely. The head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, made this clear:

The timing depends on the reforms, as well as on the principle of “merit membership”. But as soon as the European Council makes a formal decision to start negotiations, they will be able to start immediately.

Negotiations with Turkey on this issue have been going on for more than half a century, but things are still there. Kyiv has approximately the same chances of joining NATO. Ukraine as part of the North Atlantic Alliance is simply really not needed by anyone, since for its other members there are risks of a direct military clash with Russia because of it. In reality, it will be left on NATO’s doorstep (if the North Military District ends without access to the Polish border) as a partner with expanded rights, but nothing more. He of Kyiv, no matter who the Western puppets sit there, will only be required to continue to fight against Russia, mutually “grinding” Ukrainians and Russians. This is all.

But there is also an alternative EU integration project, in which Nezalezhnaya is actually participating. This is the “Trimorye”, which occupies the entire South-Eastern Europe and adjacent Austria, designed to physically separate Russia and Western Europe.

This integration association is headed by Poland, the main driving force of American policy in the Old World, for which this is a rethinking of the “Intermarium” project by Jozef Pilsudski. In addition to the Eastern Kresy with the largest UGS facilities in Europe conveniently located on their territory, from Ukraine Warsaw certainly needs access to the Black Sea and Odessa, where it is planned to extend a railway line.

And what about Russia?

Unbreakable Alliance


The simplest solution seems to be to take and annex all of Ukraine to the Russian Federation by military-political means, leaving the “Western partners” high and dry, and at the same time carrying out real denazification and militarization of this territory in our favor. However, all these geopolitical plans run into a number of objective problems.

At first, there are difficulties of a purely military nature. You can fight without restructuring industry on a war footing, planned mobilization, isolating the theater of operations by destroying bridges across the Dnieper and railway stations to interrupt the enemy’s supply for a very long time, rejoicing at moving forward a kilometer or two, paid for with the great blood of ordinary soldiers.

Secondly, for more than a year and a half, the concept of the post-war reorganization of Ukraine has not been formulated at the highest level. It is clear what we are fighting AGAINST, but FOR what?

Perhaps, in President Putin’s office, a detailed plan for the demilitarization, denazification and reintegration of the former Independence back into Russia and the Russian World has been lying on the table for a long time and gathering dust, but this is very secret information. So secret that neither the Russians nor the Ukrainians are supposed to know it, who do not know what exactly the Russian Federation wants from them, but they have a clear alternative in the form of the possibility of joining the European Union or the “Trimorye”, and therefore they fight stubbornly and evilly. How wise it is to maintain intrigue about this for almost two years is a big question. During this time, many citizens of Square who have retained their adequacy and who do not want either the Nazis in power or European integration with all its pros and cons could come over to our side during this time.

However, President Putin did say something, talking about the extreme desirability of maintaining a neutral, non-aligned status for Ukraine. From the literal interpretation of this thesis it follows that they definitely do not plan to annex it all to Russia. Numerous political scientists and people called military experts talk about the need to transform the territory that is not part of the Russian Federation into a buffer zone between us and the NATO bloc. How realistic is the implementation of this task, we will detail dismantled earlier.

In short, this is completely unrealistic, it is a chimera, deception and self-deception. The entire territory of Nezalezhnaya not under the control of the RF Armed Forces and the National Guard will be used subsequently for the war with Russia, and if we do not end the war with Victory today, then our children and grandchildren will have to fight later. After neighboring Finland, with a common border more than 1200 km long, joined NATO, talk about some kind of buffers lost all meaning. We must decide once and for all: either the “Western partners” are mortally afraid of our nuclear weapons and therefore will never attack, which means that the buffer is not needed, or they are no longer afraid of it, and ahead is a continuous terrible war with all the neighbors who are against us they will incite

The general conclusion is this: without a realistic reintegration project in the post-Soviet space, the problem of Ukraine, and therefore of all other former Soviet republics, is unsolvable. We’ll talk in more detail about the forms in which this can be done separately.
22 comments
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  1. Flight Offline Flight
    Flight (Von) 10 November 2023 16: 11
    +1
    But how is this even possible right during a special military operation by Russia?

    Probably, the fact that Russia is conducting a special operation worries most of all those who have any property or income in the location called Ukraine. The main people interested in the results in this conflict are those directly interested in generating income. And... these are definitely not crests (in the sense that ordinary Russian people understand). I remember claims regarding oil and gas settlements between Russia and Ukraine, and de facto persons of mysterious nationality who have businesses in the locations under the above names.
  2. unc-2 Offline unc-2
    unc-2 (Nikolai Malyugin) 10 November 2023 16: 18
    +1
    Whether we want it or not, we will have to take all the best from the past. Just so that we are understood everywhere. Many people criticize the time of Brezhnev. But that was the time for which our problems now would not be worth a penny.
  3. Sergey Tokarev Offline Sergey Tokarev
    Sergey Tokarev (Sergey Tokarev) 10 November 2023 16: 24
    -4
    The entire territory of Nezalezhnaya not under the control of the RF Armed Forces and the National Guard will subsequently be used for the war with Russia

    and who is the buffer ruin going to fight against Russia? already pregnant puppies surrender... https://t.me/kabezki/1381
  4. Nelton Online Nelton
    Nelton (Oleg) 10 November 2023 17: 34
    +2
    this is the dream of the European Union and NATO membership. Why a dream? Because war-ravaged and impoverished Ukraine is really not needed by anyone as part of the EU. Accepting it means hanging a financial yoke on your own necks

    They won’t take you directly to the EU, but there were already opportunities to go to work in 2021.
    And as long as salaries in the EU are higher than in the Russian Federation, the EU will be more attractive for Ukrainian citizens.

    What (should) be done with this?
    Never mind.
    Why do we care about the dreams of citizens of a neighboring state?
    They went to the EU - and there was a drum around their necks.

    And if it suddenly happens that in the Russian Federation salaries and amenities become higher than in the EU, then this will not be a reason to rejoice that now Ukrainians will flock to us, but the need to introduce additional visa restrictions. Only for tourists, with a return ticket and a booked hotel.
  5. prior Offline prior
    prior (Vlad) 10 November 2023 17: 40
    +5
    To annex and integrate Ukraine, Russia itself needs to reform.
    Not oligarchic capitalism, but a society of social justice with elements of private property, but without the right of ownership of the means of production.
    Not a Duma of idle deputies, but a congress of people's deputies from labor collectives.
    Not a federation of any national republics, but a single state divided into regions and districts with common rights and responsibilities.
    Not the people for the state, but the state for the people.
  6. Mikhail Dadeko Offline Mikhail Dadeko
    Mikhail Dadeko (Mikhail Dadeko) 10 November 2023 17: 41
    -1
    What can be bitten off (annexed) to Russia, and the rest is like Afghanistan, produced “0”, there can be no talk of industry, humanitarian aid from the EU and others, in the end they themselves will refuse or war until victory, which is also from the area dreams
  7. Vox Populi Offline Vox Populi
    Vox Populi (vox populi) 10 November 2023 18: 29
    +3
    The general conclusion is this: without a realistic reintegration project in the post-Soviet space, the problem of Ukraine, and therefore of all other former Soviet republics, is unsolvable.

    Of course, however, our leadership was very late in this matter and had to start “inside.” Moreover, no sane strategic plans are visible to this day...
    As for Ukraine and the EU, we can confidently assume that if it remains a pro-Western state, then joining the EU and NATO is only a matter of time (and with the EU everything will be simpler than in the case of Turkey). I remember well how much “analysis” and trolling we had about the notorious visa-free travel for Ukrainians, but the issue was resolved relatively quickly and simply...
  8. borisvt Offline borisvt
    borisvt (boris) 10 November 2023 20: 33
    -4
    I certainly appreciate the author's analytical skills. He has critical, non-trivial thinking and is not afraid to highlight important issues, naturally causing an understandable wave of critical comments.
    One of the most important issues for today, of course, is the prospect of future relations between Russia and Zalezhnaya, and dear S. Marzhetsky is right in assessing the harm of the fog of war, when the prospect of the goals of our actions is not clearly defined.
    From my point of view, it cannot be clearly defined now. The maximum program for NATO withdrawal to the 1997 borders was announced in the Kremlin ultimatum of December 2021, and it is still unrealistic to continue declaring it, since the sub-NATO stalemate stubbornly persists. The minimum program for the defense of Donbass, as a pretext for starting a military defense, is already too small, given the entry of new and old regions into the Russian Federation. The program-medium that Sergei is promoting, to establish Russian power at least along the Dnieper in order to develop the situation in our favor, can actually be solved differently by reducing the volume of Western assistance to the regime of the Sharovars and as a result of less Russophobic politicians coming to power in Europe and the States.
    At the front we begin to pile on, already from their side pregnant women are captured, with the economy in tatters, the hole in their budget is well known, as a result - the people will become extremely angry and impoverished, here you have a revolutionary situation with a quick change of ideology to the one we need.
    We are waiting, sir!
  9. Sergei Fonov Offline Sergei Fonov
    Sergei Fonov (sergey fonov) 10 November 2023 22: 39
    0
    A decision is needed to recognize Yanukovych as president in exile, there is also former Prime Minister Azarov, all that remains is to create the Ukrainian army and revoke the recognition of Zelensky as president. Yanukovych, as president, can play a role in the attempt by Poland and others to occupy western Ukraine. Without a doubt, Zelensky will give the go-ahead for the collapse of Ukraine, and this is where Yanukovych would come in handy. We will hold a new referendum on the reunification of Ukraine with Russia.
  10. Siegfried Offline Siegfried
    Siegfried (Gennady) 11 November 2023 03: 04
    +1
    If Russia now loudly announces the goals of the North Military District, it will be dependent on this position, will lose freedom of action, and will give its opponents cards in their hands. The final goal of the NWO is what Russia can achieve in its confrontation with the West (not with Ukraine). This is recognition by the West of the independent, sovereign position of the Russian Federation in the world. Well, either a split in the West or a change in political elites there, which results in the same thing.

    In 2014, Ukrainians simply wanted change, they wanted a rule of law, they wanted to finally live in a normal country, and not in an ape. The Ukrainians realized that they didn’t get any of this already in 2021, when Zelensky’s rating was in free fall. They realized that they got a clown, but this is the clown of the West, and therefore they cannot do anything, because... to go against the Kyiv regime is to go against the West. And if it’s against the West, then, as it were, automatically for Russia.

    Those who are smarter realized long ago that the EU does not need any prosperous, industrialized, happy Ukraine, and therefore they went somewhere else. Western Europe does not need the strengthening of the EU's eastern bloc, and the EU's eastern bloc does not need yet another competitor for European handouts. Investing huge amounts of money in an absolutely corrupt country just to create an example for Russians is a complete utopia. They themselves will not carry out any reforms, because... The elite, like a tick, is sucking blood from the state and will not stop it for what? Ukraine? There may be patriots of Ukraine, but they are clearly not at the helm, but have long been in the land of Donbass.

    The only thing you can do with them is to chew on the fact of the involvement of the West, especially the USA and Britain, not only in the war, but also in the collapse of the country 8 years before. If you do this intensively and on a large scale, at different levels of complexity in presenting information, some will hate the West. There is no need to try to awaken in them “we are brothers, we went through all of history in the same place” and the like; there is no need to compare Russia and the West. They will still think that Russia stole their happy European future from them.

    Just facts about how the West first destroyed the economy of Ukraine, and then derailed the population under Russian factories. Deliberately, purposefully. It is not the Kiev regime’s fault, it will soon disappear and there will be a pure avatar of the West, again hope, again waiting by the sea for weather. To get the maximum out of the role of the West in the events in Ukraine over the last 8 years, to explain for a long time and clearly whose plans the Kiev regime has been implementing, starting with Poroshenko.
    1. unparalleled Offline unparalleled
      unparalleled 11 November 2023 04: 08
      +1
      So the confrontation with the West will a priori be lost, won’t it? Their economic and military potential is many times higher. That’s why your epics are incomprehensible.

      It’s very funny about the West’s recognition of independence. That is, in order for us to be a sovereign country, we need recognition from the West? Hmmm....
      We trade for euros and dollars, we sell the country’s subsoil cheaply, the entire State Duma has damned NATO passports, some are endlessly deceived by our partners. Sovereignty is off the charts
      1. strange guest Online strange guest
        strange guest (Strange Guest) 11 November 2023 09: 04
        0
        Tough but fair. And about trade, and about passports..
  11. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 11 November 2023 10: 21
    +3
    Imo, all this reasoning is about nothing.
    Judging by the various actions and statements that contradict themselves, there is no brilliant plan.
    You can only see the general plan. fits perfectly into the fabric of imperialism. Poor population, high prices, EDRA power in the LDPR, global mobilization.
    Privatization of mines and an “eco-park” instead of enterprises and Azovstal. Expensive roaming for communication in new territories. Mortgage and all the other delights of imperialism.
    so no matter what the results are, everyone will convince you that this is how it was intended. And whoever is against it is the example of Strelkov and K.
    By the way, has it been released yet?
  12. boriz Offline boriz
    boriz (boriz) 12 November 2023 00: 09
    0
    Firstly, there are difficulties of a purely military nature. You can fight without restructuring industry on a war footing, planned mobilization, isolating the theater of operations by destroying bridges across the Dnieper and railway stations to interrupt the enemy’s supply for a very long time, rejoicing at moving forward a kilometer or two, paid for with the great blood of ordinary soldiers.

    Maybe the author did not notice, but, in comparison with the USA and the EU, our restructuring of industry on a war footing has already taken place.
    Neither the United States nor the EU were able to establish production in the required (and promised) quantities of simple 155 mm caliber shells. Not some kind of high-tech...
    It is from here that the United States supplies cluster munitions of this caliber to Ukraine.
    Now, online, there is a shift of attention (and resources) from Ukraine to Israel. They are simply starting to forget about Ukraine.
    And the Western media are slowly smearing the Square with crap.
    The second series of this process will be a complete transfer of attention and resources not only from Ukraine, but also from Israel and Europe to Southeast Asia. This transfer was announced by Kissinger back in June. And Khazin explained the economic background of this process.
    After the United States tricks Ukraine, Europe and Israel, the EU will completely forget about Ukraine. They will remember only in case of non-payment of loans. Since repayment of Western loans by Ukraine is impossible in principle. Not liftable.
    The fighting will stop on its own.
    And in these conditions, forcing events and destroying the infrastructure of Ukraine (which is already barely alive) is the height of stupidity. Are Mariupol, Artyomovsk, Avdeevka, etc. not enough for us?
    As for the reintegration plan, there is no need to announce it now. Extra hysterics both outside the country and inside (from the home-grown liberal Quislings who still remain strong). The less you know the better you sleep.
    1. Igor Viktorovich Berdin 12 November 2023 00: 44
      0
      this is true.
    2. strange guest Online strange guest
      strange guest (Strange Guest) 12 November 2023 08: 17
      +1
      After the scam of the USA, Ukraine, Europe and Israel

      What is the problem with the USA? Not even talking heads, but most importantly - capital that actually makes decisions? After they ditched everyone? Or will they just throw it out of spite? Or are they unmercenary and secret supporters of GDP and Abbas? Or did you just decide to give everything up and become a monk?
      1. boriz Offline boriz
        boriz (boriz) 12 November 2023 10: 03
        +1
        The situation is very simple. The United States simply does not have enough resources to support its influence in the world. On the same scale as they did before.
        There is still an opinion among people that they will “print as much green paper as they need.” But this is a primitive simplification. Just look at how the Americans themselves feel about this. Yes, debt and budget deficits are growing rapidly. But Powell (who is the director of the Fed) began to have hysterics in late spring and early summer. He stated out loud that he did not understand what was happening in the economy. This Fed director ...
        The debt grew, they allowed themselves to do so. But! Debt servicing costs already exceeded the country's defense spending a couple of months ago. (!).
        And, it would seem, why such passions about helping Ukraine and Israel? Well, print some more cut paper. Do not want.
        And the authority of the dollar has been undermined in the world. Just 3-4 years ago people laughed at me here when I wrote that the role of the dollar would be reduced to the scale of a regional currency, and the world would be divided into currency zones. Now this is happening online.
        Therefore, the United States is withdrawing from everywhere, trying to maintain its influence at least around itself. But this doesn’t work either. 3 years ago they lost influence in Latin America. Now there are attempts to return Argentina. Which, let me remind you, has already been accepted into BRICS. Let's see what happens.
        Just a couple of years ago, the United States designed its zone on the AUKUS scale. But last year it became clear that this would not be enough.
        At the end of spring, the United States itself promised and forced the EU to promise to provide Ukraine with ammunition. First of all, we were talking about ordinary 155 mm caliber shells. The SVO found that the role of smaller calibers is declining. You need 152/155. A year has passed, spring 2023 has ended. And suddenly it turned out that neither the US nor the EU were able to fulfill their promises. They are not able to organize the production of the most ordinary shells. The kind that the whole world produced during World War II.
        And Russia has increased the production of both these shells and more technologically advanced types of products. Tanks, airplanes, UAVs, and missiles are being produced on a growing scale. Moreover, the quality of weapons is higher or no lower than Western ones. If we don’t have time to produce something, our allies help.
        Yes, it suddenly turned out that we have allies. Including those who were laughed at here a couple of years ago. Iran and North Korea. Ukraine is the envy of
        1. boriz Offline boriz
          boriz (boriz) 12 November 2023 10: 23
          0
          What about the USA? In the old, outgoing economic model, surplus value was formed in financial structures. And enterprises in the real sector were either unprofitable or teetering on the brink of losses.
          Money for shells was allocated, used, “certain measures were carried out” ... But there were no shells at the exit.
          As a result, even in the United States it became clear that “making America great again” would not be easy.
          In addition, it will not be possible to force your consumer to buy expensive American goods. The people have no money (and will have even less), but on the contrary, they do have cheap Chinese goods. The market, however...
          And the United States was faced with a task: an additional sales market was needed, which at the same time could play the role of a production base. For a number of reasons (I won’t explain, it’s too long), only SE Asia is suitable for this role.
          And they will be forced to take southeast Asia from China and subordinate it to their influence. Make them work, replacing China, and at the same time buy expensive goods. The task is so-so, feasible very doubtful. But there are no other options. Otherwise, the United States could actually repeat the fate of “Great” Britain. Which dropped out of their major league during the Second World War, and is now falling from level 1 to level 2. At the same time, it is trying very hard to return to the top level. But Putin interferes. Refuses to even talk, starting with Johnson.
          So the US withdrawal is forced. And the sooner they leave, the more likely it is that they will succeed. Although it is clear that China will not simply give up Southeast Asia, its position there is much stronger than that of the United States. And it will be difficult for the United States to resolve the issue through a series of military conflicts. If not doubtful. The United States simply does not have any military advantages over China in conventional weapons.
          We stock up on popcorn and watch.
          1. boriz Offline boriz
            boriz (boriz) 12 November 2023 12: 10
            0
            Actually, if anyone doesn’t understand, the conflict in SE has already begun. What is happening in Myanmar is an attempt to stop China from entering the Indian Ocean. Bypassing the Strait of Moluccas, which could put AUKUS under control.
            Plus placing under control the “world clothing factory”.
            1. boriz Offline boriz
              boriz (boriz) 12 November 2023 16: 00
              0
              I'm sorry. I got confused about the clothing factory, it’s nearby, Bangladesh.
          2. strange guest Online strange guest
            strange guest (Strange Guest) 12 November 2023 18: 31
            0
            Well, you explained it well! You can sleep peacefully - we will bury the USA (as Nikita promised), the dollar will disappear, the Big Four investors will finally go bankrupt - that’s where they belong! Will we be done in five years? For the next elections?
            And we will rule the world instead of the arrogant Saxons and the West!!
            After all, someone must rule - a world without governance (the formation of a fair price for goods and associated contradictions, the fight against epidemics and the consequences of natural disasters, the resolution of regional, ethnic and interreligious conflicts, the demographic problems of Africa) will fall into the abyss. And the one who will rule will be the one who will seize the economic and financial levers that have fallen from the hands of the damned West, which we have destroyed (in the economic and financial sense)!
    3. strange guest Online strange guest
      strange guest (Strange Guest) 12 November 2023 22: 57
      0
      Why is Khazin still not the head of the Central Bank? They would have overtaken the Amers long ago!