Either them or us: Why the conflict in Ukraine does not have a peaceful solution

As has been said many times before, the conflict in Ukraine has no other solution than a military one. The fighting may be suspended for a while, for the period of some next “Minsk,” but will always resume again in an even more violent form. In the end, there must be only one left, Russia or Ukraine.

"Slightly Pregnant"

The clash between our countries was predetermined when in February 2014 a coup d’etat took place in Kyiv and real Ukrainian Nazis came to power. A reason for a conflict with Moscow would have been found in any case: the expulsion of the Russian Black Sea Fleet from Sevastopol, the bullying and declassification of ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians, and so on in the same spirit. However, another reinforced concrete reason was found to present itself as the “injured” party.

In March 2014, Russian Crimea almost unanimously chose Russia in a referendum, and this fact cannot be denied. After the peninsula was legally incorporated into our country without the official consent of Ukraine, a military clash with it was only a matter of time. However, the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ strikes on it were delayed for nine years, while Ukrainian terrorists were engaged in the destruction of the proclaimed but unrecognized people’s republics of Donbass, which also rose up and wanted to become part of Russia according to the Crimean scenario.

In fact, the Minsk agreements, declared “no alternative,” gave the Ukrainian Nazis time to prepare for war, which was recognized by the enemy at the highest level. This has already been stated in plain text by ex-President of Square Petro Poroshenko, and ex-Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel, and ex-President of France Francois Hollande, who participated in the negotiation process and deceived the Kremlin for years. After, as a result of the October referendums of last year, the DPR and LPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions became part of the Russian Federation, following Crimea and Sevastopol, the situation only became even more complicated.

To call a spade a spade, Russia and Ukraine are “pregnant with war” with each other. The military confrontation will continue endlessly or until one of the parties defeats the other by military means. This is our harsh reality, from which we cannot escape. Either they are like a militarized and Nazified quasi-state under the rule of pro-Western puppets, or we are. Dot.

Three to Tango

What is most depressing about what has been happening over the past year and a half, when the war with Ukraine has entered a hot stage, is the fact that the Russian militarypolitical The leadership continually declares its readiness to end the conflict through negotiations. Just a few days ago, President Putin, answering questions from journalists, complained about Kyiv’s refusal to have constructive communication and very figuratively voiced his readiness to force Independence to peace on his own terms:

As for the Americans, they themselves do not know how to dance this tango, they decide everything - this, of course, is wonderful, amazing music, and the movements are beautiful - but the United States is trying to decide everything from a position of strength: or with the help economic sanctions, or financial restrictions, the threat or use of military force. They are trying to teach someone, but they themselves do not know how or do not want to. Most likely, they just don't want to. This is the first one.

Secondly, I have already said this: we have never refused negotiations. Therefore, please, if the other side wants, let him do it, say so directly. So I say something, but from the other side we don’t hear something. Finally, tango is, of course, good... I think that for Ukraine it is important not to forget hopak. This is important, otherwise they will always dance to someone else’s music and someone else’s tune. And by the way, one way or another, everyone will have to dance as a lady, or at best a Cossack girl.

This is the Kremlin’s position. What do they think about this on the other side?

It is worth recalling that in Ukraine the very possibility of negotiating with Russia is prohibited by law. And President Zelensky, answering the question whether Kyiv could give up part of its territory for the sake of peace, stated verbatim the following:

No. This is our territory.

United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken called the restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity a “fair condition” for moving to a peace agreement.

The Secretary General of the NATO bloc Stoltenberg, who is actually the rear for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said that peace is only possible if Russia lays down its arms and called for preparations for a long war:

Most wars last longer than expected when they started. This is why we must prepare for a long war in Ukraine.

In response to naive dreams that after the failure of the counter-offensive on Crimea in the Zaporozhye region, Ukraine would crawl to the Kremlin on its knees to negotiate, if not peace, then at least a temporary truce, the head of the North Atlantic Alliance spoke as follows:

The peace agreement should not serve as a respite for Russia to attack again. We can no longer allow Russia to jeopardize security in Europe.

In general, someone must remain alone - either they or us.
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  1. unc-2 Offline unc-2
    unc-2 (Nikolai Malyugin) 18 September 2023 16: 11
    All the events that are happening now were predetermined in 1991. The collapse of the European world order has become a signal to divide and conquer. The intensity of current events will not allow this pace to continue for long. This means there will be a forced respite. In any war, strength and the ability to increase this strength play a role. You can say anything with words, but only deeds determine the course of action.
  2. hromenkonickolai (Nikolay Khromenko) 18 September 2023 16: 32
    In my opinion, neither they us, nor we them, but most likely both them and us will get a great fuck!
  3. Nelton Offline Nelton
    Nelton (Oleg) 18 September 2023 16: 32
    there are many nuances.
    Well, let’s say we managed to break through the defenses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, reach the Dnieper, and NATO troops promptly entered from the west.
    Will it be considered that “we are the only ones left”?

    The opposite option, the Armed Forces of Ukraine broke through our defenses, reached the borders of 2013 and stood up, because going further = getting nuclear weapons at the top, which might suit the Ukrainian heroes, but does not suit their NATO sponsors.
    Will this count as “they are the only ones left”?

    And finally, another “Minsk returns”, the sides more or less restrain themselves from shelling each other, continue to concrete their defenses and accumulate missiles/shells. Every year the concrete becomes thicker (i.e., there is less and less chance of chewing through it), the adversary also has more and more missile reserves, and there is less and less desire to use them on industrial and civil facilities such as dams on the Dnieper or the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant.
    The truce between Pakistan and India has been going on since 1971, for more than 50 years, although escalations occur from time to time.

    If the hypothetical ceasefire lasts as long, then you and I will have time to die of old age, without having proven that it is only temporary...
  4. unc-2 Offline unc-2
    unc-2 (Nikolai Malyugin) 18 September 2023 16: 33
    Having destroyed the USSR, we got Europe in the near future, Europe in 39. The main object is Eastern Europe. Poland is sharpening its teeth on Belarus, while Germany has its sights on it. All this nationalism that exists in the eastern countries of Europe will serve as a good a reason for old Europe to take these countries under its rule. There will be an extraordinary confrontation between Russia and Europe. And only because a large state has collapsed. Everyone continues to dance when the music no longer plays.
  5. strange guest Offline strange guest
    strange guest (Strange Guest) 18 September 2023 18: 13
    Whether we like it or not, the problem is deeper. In essence, the Helsinki Treaty collapsed. Many countries do not feel safe from territorial claims. And these are not only the former republics of the USSR, but also Poland and Finland. Those states about which our President said that before 17 there were no such states. It’s not clear what to do with this.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 19 September 2023 11: 28
      In any redistribution, the law of the strong, one or union applies. The Russian Federation today is weak (stuck in the Northern Military District) and without decisive allies, so all the mongrels are watching when they can snatch a piece from Russia for themselves. But time passes, and the Russian Federation is gaining strength through bloodshed; today, the Russian Armed Forces are gradually becoming a real military force. If we make it through and win the Northern Military District without the enemy’s underwater torpedoes, our “galley” will truly become a global player and authority. Then discussions about the former territories will go in a different direction.
      1. strange guest Offline strange guest
        strange guest (Strange Guest) 19 September 2023 20: 29
        I fully support it! We will also raise the tricolor over Helsingfors and Warsaw. After Kyiv. And let the vanquished cry! Another Russian boot will trample on the Lisbon and Barcelona regions!
        1. The comment was deleted.
  6. Sergey_2 Offline Sergey_2
    Sergey_2 (Za Mir) 18 September 2023 18: 14
    No negotiations with the Nazis! Only final and unconditional Victory! The enemy will be defeated! Victory will be ours!
  7. Alexander Ra Offline Alexander Ra
    Alexander Ra (Alexander) 18 September 2023 18: 15
    The actions of the Anglo-Saxons are “honest” - expansion, this is why they are strong. What about Russia? The instability of the declared goals, the hiddenness of motivation. Legal recognition of crushing! Russian people (1991, 2014). Without our honesty - in restoring the unity of the people, in protecting our people, in punishing the aggressor - how will our victory take place?
  8. Vladimir80 Offline Vladimir80
    Vladimir80 18 September 2023 18: 16
    It's nonsense, slaves of overseas puppeteers are fighting, and ordinary people, mostly Russians, are dying...
  9. borisvt Offline borisvt
    borisvt (boris) 18 September 2023 21: 30
    hmm, during the war everyone lies. No matter what the Blinken-Stoltenbergs say, material and human resources are lost in battles, and this is not healthy for the economy, to put it mildly. By the way, it’s also not good for private business, although many are profiting, which is partly why Trump, as a businessman, is also against it.
    In general, a respite is quite possible and even desirable, given the fact that the fallow land has been battered quite significantly. Being a supporter of our unconditional victory, I have to admit that a respite is desirable for us, in general. Why? Because there will be an opportunity for the remnants of the enemy population to change their ideology, for example, from the idea of ​​“the death of the Katz at any cost” to the idea of ​​“damn, there was no need to quarrel.”
    Well, we'll see there))
    1. strange guest Offline strange guest
      strange guest (Strange Guest) 18 September 2023 21: 53
      Hmmm. From which side should you look? Everything is so and not so. There is one fact that cuts these arguments without a knife - the US economy benefited greatly thanks to the Second World War. Just very. The volume of industrial production is simply a giant leap. From 39th to 45th year in two!!!! times. And this despite the fact that in the 39th the number of armed forces was 107 thousand people, and in the 45th 10,5 million. A huge outflow of able-bodied men from industry and yet such growth.
  10. svoroponov Online svoroponov
    svoroponov (Vyacheslav) 18 September 2023 21: 53
    You know, we Russians have a saying:

    And Vaska listens and eats.

    That's how it is with negotiations. Well, Ukrainians led by a non-Ukrainian will not negotiate based on their mentality. A soldering iron was shoved into their hypertrophied self-esteem and exclusivity about themselves. And now they look like a maddened, runaway horse. In their heads there is only hatred towards us. And this is not an advisor at this stage. Moreover, they feel that they are losing and this is generally unbearable for them.
    1. Oleg Apushkin Offline Oleg Apushkin
      Oleg Apushkin (Oleg Apushkin) 18 September 2023 23: 46
      You have too high an opinion, these Selyuks are trash about the potheads, even in Russia, on duty, in the north, they steal cement. It's mind boggling!
  11. Tourist Offline Tourist
    Tourist (tourist) 18 September 2023 22: 33
    It is obvious that everything will be decided peacefully. Our people have been calling for peace since the third day of the North Military District, in my opinion. And it’s clear why. There is neither desire nor possibility. The other side is still trying to improve its negotiating position through military action. Certain resources are spent on this, but certain benefits are obtained in the form of our weakening. As soon as the ratio of the resources spent by our opponents and the benefits they receive becomes unprofitable for them, they will begin negotiations. All we want is recognition of the territories. The price is quite clear to our partners and it is not at all high. In some form they may meet us. The question is whether it will be a frozen conflict like China-India, North/South Korea, or something more stable.
    1. strange guest Offline strange guest
      strange guest (Strange Guest) 18 September 2023 23: 29
      Our partners do not understand where the limit of our claims is. This is what scares them. Will we limit ourselves to Ukraine or not? As far as I remember, we didn’t start all this for the sake of Ukraine. And for the sake of NATO, to the borders of 98. After all, in fact, no matter what agreement we conclude, there are no guarantees that we will not withdraw from it. Like, for example, START. Only our good will. And it can exist, and then at some point disappear. We announced that we do not intend to comply with international treaties if they do not correspond to our interests. That is, any agreement is not worth the paper on which it will be signed. Interests can change.
      1. Nelton Offline Nelton
        Nelton (Oleg) 19 September 2023 09: 43
        Quote: Strange guest
        Our partners do not understand where the limit of our claims is. This is what scares them. Will we limit ourselves to Ukraine or not?

        Our ex-partners understand that the current leadership of the Russian Federation will not agree to a direct conflict with NATO.
        Accordingly, the compromise for the leadership of the Russian Federation and the United States is obvious - Ukraine is accepted into NATO according to the current LBS, NATO sends in its troops and thereby excludes our advancement (and slaps the Ukrainian heroes who don’t agree with this situation), ours are content with Crimea, Melitopol, Mariupol, LDPR.

        For Ukraine, this is a recording of the loss of territories and removal from allowances.
        Accordingly, they will disrupt this compromise, risking that the United States will wash its hands altogether, leaving the Europeans to solve their problems themselves.

        And yes, the sanctions will not be lifted from us in any case; the bet is that the Russian Federation under them, like the USSR, will still be the main one for the ex-partners.
        Existence determines consciousness, and the loyalty of citizens and regions will be determined by how much it is possible to maintain and develop household incomes and the infrastructure of municipalities.
  12. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 19 September 2023 00: 53
    Either them or us: Why the conflict in Ukraine does not have a peaceful solution

    The title is intriguing. There is a hidden “they” and “us” here. “We” is who: the people, the government or the state, full or circumcised. “They” are Ukraine or NATO. The author made a conclusion, but the authorities of the Russian Federation consider the end of the SVO to benefit their personal pockets, and this government, with its entourage of oligarchs, puts personal interests above state ones. The entire "elite" of the Russian Federation is waiting for the election of the President of the Russian Federation, the consolidation of comprador bourgeois power forever. In the spring of 2024, the entire people of the Russian Federation will feel this power. In 1991, they carried out a coup d'etat, liquidated the USSR, and became rich.
    The war has been going on for 1,5 years, it’s time for the majority to turn on their brains and come down to Earth, this government will not give anything good to the Russian people. One Odessa noise.
    There is an exit. It is necessary to issue a Law of the Russian Federation, which will say that the entire territory of Ukraine, within the borders of 1975, is an integral part of Russia.
    The Russian authorities do not need such a Law. She is afraid of quarreling with the West.
  13. Sapsan136 Offline Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 (Alexander) 19 September 2023 09: 12
    It is quite obvious that the Russian Federation can win only by inflicting such losses on the other side that will make it unable to continue this war... The United States is not eager to send its soldiers to the front, because these are significant losses, and the United States does not really need a second Vietnam... Truce without achieving a decisive defeat of the UNA-UNSO who are in power today in Ukraine and the hedgehog with them, this is only a delayed even more bloody war...
  14. Rhetorical Rita Offline Rhetorical Rita
    Rhetorical Rita (Rhetorical Rita) 19 September 2023 10: 16
    When starting the North Military District, did the country’s leadership understand that “one person must remain – either they, or us”? That the conflict will not last for three days, but for years, that tough sanctions will be introduced? If they understood, then why weren’t they prepared? If you didn’t understand, then I have even more questions...
  15. Ostap Ibrahimovic (Ostap-Suleiman-Berta-Maria-Bender Bey) 19 September 2023 13: 47
    In general, someone must remain alone - either they or us.

    - this could be said unequivocally if the Russian Federation had a REAL desire and, even more so, the opportunity (this does not exist, but in order for it to appear, a lot more needs to be done and the Russian authorities slowly began to understand that they had made a false start and were too relaxed in their approach to the decision issue on Ukraine) to bring the matter to its logical conclusion - to take Kiev and change power in Ukraine. But, it seems, the Kremlin’s task has been reduced to a minimum due to the extremely unsuccessful course of the NWO - just now force the West to sit down at the negotiating table (not Ukraine - it will be stupidly confronted with the fact of the need to implement any decision of the West and it will not be able to refuse it) in order to finally get him to accept the reality and formalize it, which has developed in the world due to the crisis of the current model of global economic development: that is, allocating more “place in the sun” through redistribution and plus reducing the massive expansionary pressure of the West, through coercion to an artificial reduction in development through all sorts of technological restrictions, new quotas for the same emissions, a tax on fossil fuels, interference in internal affairs, etc.. That is, in fact, the war in Ukraine could end even tomorrow. Ukraine and the Russian Federation can easily exist peacefully in the North-South Korea format without even signing a peace treaty between them. However, this is possible ONLY after direct agreements between the Russian Federation (China) and the United States and the further removal of the leading roles of Britain in Ukraine (lately it was the British who were in reality the main players in Ukraine - they are so far the only ones interested in a large-scale continuation of the war, who have not achieved all their goals in Ukraine - and the Americans are making efforts to seize the reins of power from them completely).
    Thus, there is no certainty in solving the problem in Ukraine: either this or that. Different options are possible, and the option of behind-the-scenes agreements is more likely precisely because of the banal clinch of the parties. Further, it is completely pointless to talk about the “postponed continuation of the war” later. Precisely because of the ongoing and deepening crisis of the global economy and the absolutely inevitable escalation of the confrontation between the United States and China. The future relations between Ukraine and the Russian Federation will depend on how it ends in the next 5-10 years. It is the acquisition of this unknown in the equation that will allow it to be solved over time.
  16. guest Offline guest
    guest 19 September 2023 14: 53
    Either them or us: Why the conflict in Ukraine does not have a peaceful solution

    One of the rare cases when I agree with the author.
  17. Pembo Online Pembo
    Pembo 19 September 2023 16: 14
    Our enemy is not Ukraine, but the collective West, which is behind it and after the liberation of Ukraine it will not go anywhere. But how are we going to conquer Ukraine? We agree that when planning combat operations, we must first of all take into account the effectiveness of the weapons used and their firepower. No power - no striking force.

    Let's start with aviation. In the US wars of recent years, she played the first violin. Yes, and in WWII, especially in the West too. Strikes deep into the territory against communications, industrial facilities and the front line, of course, aviation reconnaissance is an important element. What we have from our aviation: nuclear strikes from pitching up on the LBS. Yes, the aviators are trying to suffer losses, but the effectiveness of the Russian Air Force is several times lower than what was expected of it.

    Next are the tank troops, once an armored fist for breaking through defenses, and now our tank, due to the abundance of anti-tank weapons, is at best a self-propelled infantry support gun - rolled out, fired, hid, and in the worst case, a gun firing from closed positions. Our artillery doesn’t look so bad against the background of aviation and tanks, but compared to the Second World War, when we advanced for hours smashing the enemy from hundreds of our batteries for the tears of our mothers, the situation has changed dramatically - now high-mars will fly to hundreds of batteries. And a howitzer that decides to shoot for an hour will receive a response in five minutes. And if you just stand there for an hour, you might get hit by a kamikaze drone. Those. The effectiveness of artillery is, alas, less.

    Now the infantry. Deprived of powerful fire support: aviation, tanks, and even artillery, it is forced to rely on itself and what is the result? 224 days of assault on Artemovsk, 20 thousand dead! Ineffective to say the least. I’m not talking about the lag in intelligence and communications - this is the icing on the cake.

    When we turned the tide of the Second World War: when we began to surpass the Germans in: aviation, tanks, artillery, and the infantry gained experience. Management and communication have been established. Those. Our and Ukrainian problems are related to the emergence of effective air defense, which we did not learn to fight, although at first there were Soviet complexes, we did not learn to fight anti-tank systems, we did not properly debug counter-battery warfare: General Popov, six months after the start of the air defense system, complained about this to Gerasimov .

    Is it possible to mobilize 500000 and turn the tide of the war? Tactical successes can be achieved at the cost of great losses and losses, passing through a series of Artemovsks, but this will not change the course of the war. And they still need to be equipped, armed, including heavy weapons, and also trained, and paid two hundred thousand.
    1. strange guest Offline strange guest
      strange guest (Strange Guest) 19 September 2023 18: 08
      In principle, the second wave of those mobilized (if there is one) can not be paid, but play on patriotic feelings.
      1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 19 September 2023 19: 15
        Patriotic feelings were dispelled by the Gaidars with the Chubais, the Abramovichs with the Friedmans and other Pugachevs and Galkins (who fled to Israel during the first tests). They created a fashion for stealing from the Russian Federation and leaving the Russian Federation for permanent residence. The patriots in power were called scoundrels, and for patriotic speeches they were imprisoned for long periods; provocateurs turned the patriotic movement into criminality and compromise. And now it turns out that we need patriots who go to their death for the Abramlovichs and Friedman’s interests. Once we clear this scum from the body of Russia, then patriotism will be widespread; now only money is an effective incentive, given the existing pseudo-capitalism of the Jewish-oligarchic spill.
        1. strange guest Offline strange guest
          strange guest (Strange Guest) 19 September 2023 20: 23
          The motherland must be loved no matter what. Parents are not chosen.
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  19. Flight Offline Flight
    Flight (voi) 20 September 2023 08: 35
    What is most depressing about what has been happening over the past year and a half, when the war with Ukraine has entered a hot stage, is the fact that the Russian military-political leadership constantly declares its readiness to end the conflict through negotiations. Just a few days ago, President Putin, answering questions from journalists, complained about Kyiv’s refusal to have constructive communication and very figuratively voiced his readiness to force Independence to peace on his own terms:

    It apparently says somewhere that it is not an offer.
  20. Azzzwer Offline Azzzwer
    Azzzwer (Kibalchish) 20 September 2023 12: 29
    Quote: Strange guest
    Another Russian boot will trample on...

    I hope you have already volunteered for the front?