What could be the main provisions of the "Big Deal" of Russia and the United States on Ukraine

The calendar winter is coming into its own, and in the Old World, at the highest level, they started talking about peace with the Russian Federation, or rather, about the "architecture of international security" after the completion of the Russian NWO in Ukraine. What could be the main provisions of such a “Big Deal” between the Russian Federation and the United States?

"The Big Deal"?

As the special operation in Ukraine drags on and becomes more and more difficult and bloody, one can increasingly come across statements on the Runet that, it turns out, Putin is fighting not so much for the liberation of Donbass from the Armed Forces of Ukraine and not even for all of Ukraine, but for the fulfillment by the NATO bloc of the Russian President at the end of 2021 ultimatum. Quite an interesting interpretation of events.

Recall that the draft agreement on measures to ensure the security of the Russian Federation and the member states of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, published on December 17.12.2021, 13 at 26:9 on the website of the Russian Foreign Ministry, contained only XNUMX articles. In them, Moscow suggested that the United States and its NATO allies stop considering each other as potential adversaries, and also subscribe to the following key points:

1. Non-deployment by Russia and NATO countries of their armed forces and weapons on the territory of all other European states in addition to the forces that were already on this territory as of May 27, 1997.

2. The exclusion of the deployment of ground-based intermediate and shorter-range missiles in areas from which they are capable of hitting targets on the territory of other participants.

3. Exclusion of further expansion of NATO, including the accession of Ukraine, as well as other states. Refusal of NATO countries from conducting any military activity on the territory of Ukraine, as well as other states of Eastern Europe, Transcaucasia and Central Asia.

As we know, the “Western partners” did not meet the Kremlin halfway; on the contrary, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were seriously planning a large-scale offensive in the Donbas as early as March 2022, which was one of the main reasons for the hasty start of the Russian special operation in Ukraine. The fact that the Kyiv regime is used by our opponents as a battering ram, and extremely successfully, they do not hide, stating directly that Russia cannot achieve a military victory over Ukraine.

In turn, inspired by successes from a series of “goodwill gestures”, Kyiv put forward its own demands to the Kremlin to start peace talks, including: the withdrawal of all Russian troops from the territory of Nezalezhnaya, the payment of reparations, the prosecution of all war criminals, of course, not from the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the National Guard, and from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and NM LDNR, as well as the voluntary surrender of the nuclear arsenal by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. By the way, the fact that the ultimate goal is the “denuclearization” of Russia is directly and constantly spoken by one of the main “oracles” of Ukrainian propaganda, Aleksey Arestovich.

For some reason, these demands of Kyiv were called “comical” in our country, but there is nothing funny about all this. It is obvious that all this is an element of behind-the-scenes bargaining about the conditions for completing the Russian special operation. Both sides have raised their maximum stakes and, as the fighting develops in the South-East of Ukraine, they will be adjusted towards some kind of consensus. French President Emmanuel Macron said the other day that this consensus is needed:

We must continue to help Ukraine, strive to avoid escalation, ensure the safety of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant and prepare contacts for the day when everyone finally sits down at the negotiating table.

This issue will be part of the discussions about peace, and we need to prepare for what happens after [the Ukrainian conflict] and think about how we can protect our allies and at the same time give Russia guarantees for its own security at the moment when the return for negotiation table.

In the same spirit that the Kremlin needs to be given something to complete its special operation in Ukraine, the well-known British writer and anti-extremism researcher Jack Buckby said on the pages of the 19FortyFive portal the day before. In his opinion, for this, the West should support the initiative of President Macron:

The confrontation in Ukraine could end if NATO leaders take his proposal seriously.

In general, it can be stated that preparations for the conclusion of the "Big Deal" are gradually reaching the finish line. What might be its key provisions?

"Atomic bomb"

If we try to find some arithmetic mean between Putin's last year's ultimatum, Kyiv's latest ultimatum and Paris's peacekeeping position, then the formula for curtailing the special operation by the Kremlin and proclaiming its geopolitical victory may be as follows.

At first, Ukraine and Georgia refuse to join the NATO bloc, which will be presented here as the main result of the special operation. Also, the suspension of the process of joining the North Atlantic Alliance under the pretext of taking a break will be announced by Sweden and Finland in order to look at the further behavior of the Kremlin.

Secondly, Russia renounces any new claims on the territory of Ukraine, bracketing the status of those already occupied. We will talk about them in more detail later. The forced withdrawal of the RF Armed Forces from the Right Bank, which actually closed our way to Nikolaev, Odessa and Transnistria, was undoubtedly received very positively in the West. Also, as part of the desire to de-escalate tensions, it would be logical to subsequently disband the joint grouping of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus, located in Western Belarus, so as not to irritate the Eastern European neighbors.

Thirdly, in exchange for refusing to join the NATO bloc, Ukraine will have to receive guarantees of non-repetition of SVO-2. Its security will be guaranteed by Turkey with its Black Sea Fleet, Poland with its Ground Forces and Great Britain with its nuclear arsenal. Also, Kyiv will be helped with the formation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as the second most powerful army, not legally, but actually being NATO. This alone would pose a huge threat to the Russian Federation without any American medium-range missiles in Eastern Europe.

This outcome may now terrify someone, but the “Western partners” are leading us to something like this. The worst thing about this scenario is that even such an "architecture of international security", for all its depravity, is doomed from the start, because it does not have a reliable foundation. What are we talking about?

The fact that both Russia and Ukraine have mutual territorial claims to each other. Kyiv will never recognize the Donbass, the Sea of ​​Azov and the Crimea as Russian, Moscow is simply obliged, by virtue of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, to seek the liberation of the administrative centers of its two new regions - Kherson and Zaporozhye. The fact that the Kremlin does not intend to abandon Kherson was personally stated by the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Peskov:

This is a subject of the Russian Federation, this status is legally defined and fixed. There is not and cannot be any change.

Well, he or Putin himself would have refused Kherson. In fact, very serious criminal liability has been introduced in our country for such appeals. And what do we have in the bottom line? The main geopolitical players are now extremely interested in concluding the "Big Deal", but at the same time, under it, the "atomic bomb" was originally laid in the form of an unresolved territorial conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Judging by the statement of President Macron, the West would not mind if these problems were put out of the brackets of a hypothetical peace agreement between the Kremlin and Washington:

Ukraine itself should decide under what conditions, how and when to negotiate, and not anyone else...
What depends on us is the security of the rest of Europe.

In other words, the Russian leadership is offered once again to voluntarily tie its own hands in exchange for an illusory "overcome" that will collapse together with the "architecture of international security" when the "atomic bomb" planted under it explodes. Logic and common sense suggest that it is not worth exchanging a special operation in Ukraine for any “Big Deals” with the Anglo-Saxons, anyway, in the end we will be the losers.
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  1. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 5 December 2022 11: 24
    I believe that the NWO should end only on the border with Poland. All other agreements will be considered a defeat for Russia. Because leaving Ukraine in any form will mean war in the future! Cooks and taxi drivers understand this. And since we are ruled by hucksters, for whom the interests of Russia are the second, so bargaining is appropriate!
    1. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
      rotkiv04 (Victor) 5 December 2022 11: 38
      Quote: steel maker
      I believe that the NWO should end only on the border with Poland. All other agreements will be considered a defeat for Russia. Because leaving Ukraine in any form will mean war in the future! Cooks and taxi drivers understand this. And since we are ruled by hucksters, for whom the interests of Russia are the second, so bargaining is appropriate!

      correction, not "rule", but "rule"
    2. Vlad Sirs Offline Vlad Sirs
      Vlad Sirs (Sirius NVL) 5 December 2022 11: 47
      There is a wise toast, for desires that coincide with opportunities))
      1. Carmela Offline Carmela
        Carmela (Carmela) 5 December 2022 13: 17
        Quote: Vlad Srs
        There is a wise toast, for desires that coincide with opportunities))

        Our possibilities allow us to fulfill our desires. It is only necessary not to play the fool, but to act.
    3. AICO Offline AICO
      AICO (Vyacheslav) 5 December 2022 14: 43
      Yes sir! Only on the shores of the Baltic Sea - enough jackals roamed !!!
    4. cooper Offline cooper
      cooper (Alexander) 6 December 2022 00: 02
      Yes, and you can not stop at the border with Poland ..
  2. Shamil Rasmukhambetov (Shamil Rasmukhambetov) 5 December 2022 11: 27
    You can’t trust these freaks, you have to bring everything to the end and then talk, otherwise they will shoe you again.
  3. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 (Victor) 5 December 2022 11: 36
    Yes, the West and Russia can agree on anything, only the outskirts will live with one thought to take revenge and win back everything that is torn away, and I don’t even doubt that the West will help and arm the Kyiv Nazis, but the Kremlin strategists or strategists will, of course, again live in their invented world, how they lived for 8 years during Minsk, and then they were surprised to find out that a new war had begun
  4. Vlad Sirs Offline Vlad Sirs
    Vlad Sirs (Sirius NVL) 5 December 2022 11: 38
    Yes, the implementation of something like this within the framework of the BS is more than real. Yes, none of the parties will receive satisfaction with the results of the BC as a result. But there is no alternative, since neither Kyiv nor Moscow can win a final victory over each other, so sooner or later there will be a Big Deal.
    1. Carmela Offline Carmela
      Carmela (Carmela) 5 December 2022 13: 19
      They can, they can. We can. And you know it. The deal can only be after our victory over the Nazis.
  5. Ivanov IV Offline Ivanov IV
    Ivanov IV (Igor Vasilievich) 5 December 2022 11: 44
    What kind of "deal" can there be on the blood of our guys, on the blood of the murdered children of Donbass??????
    Scum. It's even just discussing betrayal.
    1. Vlad Sirs Offline Vlad Sirs
      Vlad Sirs (Sirius NVL) 5 December 2022 11: 50
      No less blood has been shed on the part of Kyiv, and the BS does not suit them either, but they will have to make a compromise.
  6. kriten Offline kriten
    kriten (Vladimir) 5 December 2022 12: 02
    All these talks come down to one thing: the treacherous elites of Russia are pushing the country towards virtual surrender. GDP has already had to admit that with the Minsk agreements, it actually betrayed the Donbass republics. This fact inspires our traitors to Minsk-3.
  7. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 5 December 2022 12: 23
    Given the global nature of the Anglo-Saxons' plan, it is foolish to expect compromises from them.
    They are impossible, if only because we do not put pressure on them in any way, on the contrary, we create the most comfortable conditions for them. We continue to fulfill contracts, supply them with resources and fuel. We continue to bankrupt our military-industrial complex.
    Taking care of their peace of mind, we regularly assure them that our nuclear weapons do not threaten them, that we will not allow a nuclear war. The Anglo-Saxons continue to implement their Plan, the result of which should be their accession on two continents.
    The stages of this Plan, apparently, are: the military operation of Russia in Ukraine and its final dehumanization as a result of the mass death of civilians, the involvement of Poland and NATO countries in this war, the bleeding of Russia and its surrender, the destruction of the population of conquered Russia and the appropriation of its resources, the appropriation property and industry of Europe weakened by the war, the hunt for immigrants from Russia and the rewriting of history.
    Compromise with the masters of this plan is rather an illusion for our peace of mind. After all, the "tribute" we pay and our loyalty do not change this Plan one iota.
    Yes, Russia was ready for destruction by the Anglo-Saxons back in 1992, since an American puppet was at the helm of the country, but the Anglo-Saxons would then have to fight and shed their precious blood themselves. They could not THEN make their allies do it for themselves. To do this, they needed a "lighter" from Russia and Ukraine.
    A war in Europe will inevitably force the Europeans to shed their blood.
    In the 30 years since the coup they staged in Moscow, the Anglo-Saxons, through their proteges and the "fifth column", thoroughly "prepared" Russia for a guaranteed defeat in the war with NATO. The countries of Europe in this war will be weakened and drained of blood. The overlord can easily turn into a slave owner and master of the continent. This is the basis of their current combination.
    Russia is still following the lead of the Anglo-Saxons in Ukraine. Without forcing the Anglo-Saxons to retreat, the NWO turns into their "meat grinder", which serves to bleed Russia, grind our best people, high-precision weapons and resources, and also to dehumanize us. The latter is useful to the Anglo-Saxons when rewriting history
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 5 December 2022 12: 47
      Without getting dirty in anyone's blood, destroying Russia by proxy, attributing everything to it, and not having guilt before their vassals, having appropriated our resources and the industry of Europe, reigning on two continents, and rewriting the history of the world without us, the Anglo-Saxons will become even more powerful and will be able to calmly think about China
    2. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 13 December 2022 14: 08
      I will add one more part of their Plan. After the defeat of Russia, the Anglo-Saxons can redirect our nuclear forces to China and attack it from our territory. They can also use the population of Russia against him as "cannon fodder". That is, to do the same thing that they did with the people of Ukraine. The instrument of coercion will no longer be deceit, but the threat of destruction
      1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 13 December 2022 16: 35
        The process of turning Russia into an instrument of Evil, begun by them in Ukraine, and continued by the war between Russia and Europe, will thus be fully completed.
  8. Watching Offline Watching
    Watching (Alex) 5 December 2022 12: 48
    The Rubicon has been crossed. The unimaginable has become a reality, returning back beyond the Rubicon will bring nothing. The Russian Federation started a war with NATO - after all, "Ukraine" is de facto NATO - and Russia will not get away with it cheaply, you need to get used to this idea, regardless of the moral aspect. Military aggressions get away with the Anglo-Saxons and their henchmen, but they have power, and international law is already a historical concept. There are two ways left for Russia: 1) completely defeat the ukroraykh, without a trace and without sympathy, despite the military support of NATO, 2) turn tail, leave everything conquered, lie under the Anglo-Saxon and Pshek, beg for mercy. In the first case, the prestige of the Russian Federation will grow astronomically, in the second there will be no Russian Federation, which will, of course, lead to the implementation of the principle "why do we need a world in which there is no Russia?" The inaction of the AFRF is now like death, no matter how it is explained. It will be hard in the event of a disaster for the Russian Federation and Belarus, so its involvement in this war with NATO is also a matter of time.
    1. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
      rotkiv04 (Victor) 5 December 2022 13: 48
      judging by the fact that the strategist does not have any plan, then the principle is - "why do we need a world in which there is no Russia?" also in question, with his co-conspiracy, he would rather lie under the psheks than hit the pindocs
    2. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 5 December 2022 13: 58
      There are two ways left for Russia: 1) completely defeat the ukroraykh, without a trace and without sympathy, despite the military support of NATO, 2) turn tail, leave everything conquered, lie down under the Anglo-Saxon and Pshek, beg for mercy

      To defeat in spite of this is to follow their Plan. To our doom.
      The second option is the same.
      Why was the impact on them excluded from the list? We have our excellent strategic nuclear weapons. There is a well-known positive experience of using it to intimidate in 1962 on the same Anglo-Saxon population with forcing them to the same thing - to retreat.
      Are you consciously working for the Anglo-Saxons, or just not thinking?
      1. Vlad Sirs Offline Vlad Sirs
        Vlad Sirs (Sirius NVL) 5 December 2022 14: 22
        A nuclear club in a war like this does not work
        1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 5 December 2022 14: 39
          Works great.
          And as a weapon of intimidation, and as a grenade in the hands of a sentenced to death - on his executioner.
          We cannot get away from the need to force the Anglo-Saxons to retreat in all positions and withdraw their gang from our borders.
          You will have to keep your finger on the "button" for some time until the danger returns to its previous limits. Nothing that the finger "goes numb" - the main thing - we will turn the tide.
          This, unfortunately, is the only option left to us by the "couple" - Yeltsin with Putin and their liberal teams, controlled from across the ocean
  9. borisvt Offline borisvt
    borisvt (boris) 5 December 2022 13: 03
    A very fair article, if you do not take into account the angry mood of the armies both on our side and on the enemy side, and this is an armed electorate, by the way. You can’t call our commander-in-chief an uninformed adventurer. He owns information, he calculates the future, yes he is wrong, like some of us in our forecasts))
    So, I think, if there will be a compromise respite, then just like that, wiping bloody snot and pumping up military biceps. But I am skeptical about such rumors, the Americans will not give a break. No. They don't need her.
    Macaron's messages after consultations with old Bidon, I think, are a flattering device for cajoling the authoritarian, what is already there, GDP. Like, I wanted guarantees - please, I have them. Yes, and the can, to the delight of our imperialist public, insists that fighting the Russians is what you are, no, no!
    They lie.
  10. boriz Offline boriz
    boriz (boriz) 5 December 2022 13: 12
    Russia now does not make any sense about something to negotiate with the United States.
    I have already written repeatedly since last year that Russia has nowhere to rush. But the countries of the West are getting hot in sensitive places, and the further, the more.
    The unity of the West is disintegrating before our very eyes.
    Europe has strong claims against the United States, it is already obvious to the most stupid that the United States dragged Europe into the Ukrainian epic to weaken the European economy and move industry from Europe.
    But the issue of negotiations is unlikely to be a tough one for Russia in the near future. The economy of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of Ukraine are under the control and maintenance of the United States. But the Office of the President is under the control of the World Bank. Not even the Office itself, but personally Zelensky.
    This can be seen even in rhetoric. The United States gently (so far) persuades Zelensky to negotiate, but the World Bank - to war to a victorious end.
    It's just that the United States has already squeezed everything they could out of Ukraine. Further development of the situation in the same direction leads to serious losses for the United States in all aspects.
    And the World Bank has only one goal: to squeeze Putin into agreeing for the World Bank to head its currency zone.
    Therefore, it makes sense for Russia to talk only with the United States and only about the boundaries of our currency zone and the rules of the game in a situation where the world is divided into these zones. The United States is not ripe for such negotiations, but the situation for them is becoming more complicated every day.
    They need to be seriously dealt with by AUKUS, and the economy and the defense industry are becoming more and more involved in the Ukrainian swamp. And it is already clear that no one will return Ukraine's debts to them. And the United States is also not interested in further irritating Russia in the prospect of a confrontation with China. They are also not interested in strengthening the WB, which will want to claim the role of a partner, and not a subordinate in AUKUS.
    The situation on the stock exchanges threatens an uncontrollable collapse. But delaying this collapse will also be costly.
    The voices of Europe (including the WB) do not matter.
    1. borisvt Offline borisvt
      borisvt (boris) 5 December 2022 23: 46
      Interesting thoughts and informative commentary! However, despite the obvious and logical conclusions, it seems to me, given the difference in the weight of the stock markets in London and the same New York, that there is a game of good and bad cop. The bad one hits the faces, and the good one gives a cigarette and sympathetically asks for life. All of them, bastards, at the same time! And the couscous and the British-Polish-Ukrainian trident - they all aimed to bite us until we lose blood.
      Exchanges, by the way, will survive and survive, especially in states where the dollar is in command. The dollar will live for at least another three years, if not thirty, and their exchanges will also exist, despite the crashes.
      Our Moscow Stock Exchange is alive, isn't it?
  11. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 5 December 2022 13: 50
    The economy of the NATO countries is 20 times larger than the economy of the Russian Federation. Conclusion, time works against the Russian Federation. We need to end the war in Ukraine quickly. If the Russian Federation loses, the entire "elite" of the Russian Federation will be physically destroyed, no one in the West, and in the world, will not feel sorry for them, especially in Russia. The entire territory of Ukraine is an integral part of the Russian Federation.
    1. 1_2 Offline 1_2
      1_2 (Ducks are flying) 5 December 2022 15: 34
      the NATO economy prints its junk currencies 20-100 times more, it's like sawing the branch you're sitting on, you just need a push and the West will collapse
  12. 1_2 Offline 1_2
    1_2 (Ducks are flying) 5 December 2022 15: 32
    the entire economy of the United States and Europe exists only by printing trillions of rubbish bucks of pounds euros, etc. if the world refuses to sell goods (and resources) for West's junk wrappers, the West will find itself in the Middle Ages in a short time, there may even be famine. Without resources, agriculture, fertilizers, metals, uranium, etc., the West will again have to take all this by force from countries that refused to give it back for the waste papers of the West. and here the question arises "who will protect them." except for the Russian Federation, China, India, Iran, there is no one else. 4 countries in this top five have nuclear weapons. China and India, in addition to nuclear weapons, have a huge population and are able to deploy their soldiers in all countries of the "third world". Naturally, the West will not twitch against the Union of nuclear countries, and will die a slow death, but for this you must first create such a Union. The PRC has already said it is ready, but until the Chinese get rid of 1,3 trillion junk bucks, you should not expect them to act. Give them time and things will work out. in the meantime, the Russian Federation must restore order within its system, clean up the CIA agent Chubais from the larvae ... but nothing of the kind is happening. Tsarek again drinks brotherhood with Gref, listening to his tales about artificial intelligence and how he will surf the expanses of space
  13. Alex_90 Offline Alex_90
    Alex_90 (Alexander) 5 December 2022 16: 41
    Everyone who wants to "finish the NWO" on the border with Poland - are you ready for mobilization already? There are many analysts who want to win while sitting on the couch - even more. You, please, do not forget that if the task is set to go to Poland, then you will also have to fight in the trenches in this case.
    Mobilize not one million, but two, maybe three. If you have to go to Poland, this is already a new Great Patriotic War.

    A bad peace is always better than a good war.
    Who said that Russia will not carry out its work on the mistakes?
    The Russian government must learn from all the failures and prepare a new army. Not for tank biathlon.

    I remember an article on this site, a couple of months before the start of the NWO .. I don’t remember the author, but it was about Putin’s ultimatums. And there the author pointed out that if we “start an invasion” of Ukraine, we will fall into the trap where the West actively lured us. They lured us by openly saying that only sanctions would be used against us. Well, we got it.

    There is a face-saving way out - a major offensive on our part, which, judging by many signs, is being actively prepared. And then - holding positions and offering negotiations. And there already - a bet that the Ukrainian economy is in full well .. and no one will feed it. The people themselves must think of who they need to be friends with.
    But to go to Poland or take Kyiv - I doubt it .. there is strength, but the people have no motivation.
    Answer the question for yourself - are you really ready to be on the fronts of the immense 404th tomorrow?
    1. guest Offline guest
      guest 5 December 2022 16: 51
      Quote: Alex_90
      A bad peace is always better than a good war.

      Well, really, let people die in the Donbass, but at the same time you have peace and prosperity?

      Quote: Alex_90
      And there already - a bet that the Ukrainian economy is in full well .. and no one will feed it. The people themselves must think of who they need to be friends with.

      This bet is already losing in itself, but the fact that the people there should think of who they should be friends with is simply ridiculous.
      1. Alex_90 Offline Alex_90
        Alex_90 (Alexander) 5 December 2022 17: 35
        The freeze will take place in such a way that the Donbass will remain part of the Russian Federation. I am for peace on Russia's terms. We just need to bring Ukraine to favorable conditions for us.
        But a question for you personally, for 8 years, why were they silent about the Donbass? Volunteers would have gone to help, what is there?
        I know firsthand that quite a significant part of the residents of Donetsk and Lugansk left for Ukraine.

        Well, if you go “liberate” Ukraine, which does not want to “liberate” – isn’t that a losing bet?

        If they have chosen their anti-Russian course since the 90s, so please. Good riddance. It was we who babbled about the fraternal people to the last and sold gas at a discount) maybe it was worth doing the opposite?

        Was Ukraine dangerous for us? Of course it is dangerous, and CBO is the right decision. Great idea, but lousy execution.
        And it's not about the professionalism of the army.
        The task was set to her "liberation mission". This is beyond the power of a small contract army. For a blitzkrieg, in order to prevent the enemy from carrying out mobilization measures - yes, ideal.
        But the armies at one time had their hands tied.

        The fact that we miscalculated became clear in the first week, when we requested the first negotiations.

        But even now, "hands are tied." We, one of the few nuclear powers, cannot even use tactical nuclear weapons.

        Therefore, it will be so. We will win. We will carry out a couple more mobilizations, and as history shows, we will win. The question is how valuable?

        Read the history of the Soviet-Finnish war, be surprised how history likes to repeat itself.
        And most importantly, after the Soviet-Finnish war, Germany concluded that the spacecraft and Russia as a whole were not such a serious adversary.
        1. guest Offline guest
          guest 5 December 2022 18: 46
          Quote: Alex_90
          But a question for you personally, for 8 years, why were they silent about the Donbass?

          Who was silent? I was 8 years ago in favor of solving the problem of Ukraine by military means and minimal losses.
  14. DeadPahom Offline DeadPahom
    DeadPahom (Eugene) 5 December 2022 17: 31
    The Ukrainian factor upset the balance of power in Europe. The goal of the SVO is to restore this balance, that is, the complete elimination of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and its military industry, as well as the possibility of restoring military potential in the foreseeable future. The issues of redrawing the borders of Ukraine and the post-war device are not currently a priority.
  15. EMMM Offline EMMM
    EMMM 5 December 2022 19: 00
    Moscow is simply obliged, by virtue of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, to seek the liberation of the administrative centers of its two new regions - Kherson and Zaporozhye.

    I will add the entire left-bank Ukraine and Nikolaev, Sumy and Odessa, as well as Transnistria.
    Chernihiv, Zhytomyr and Kirovograd are in question.
    But it is expedient to cede Bendery's Ukraine to Poland.
    This will allow her (Poland) to prosper .... fully, and get a lot of problems from her neighbors from Hungary and Romania. And, in return for such a concession, the Suvlak corridor should be demanded!
    1. borisvt Offline borisvt
      borisvt (boris) 6 December 2022 01: 08
      In order to yield, one must first have it. And so, this is all so far Wishlist, the division of the skins of the unkilled.
      I think, take it, take it, we’ll stop Bender’s problems - it’s not used to, it’s better to do it on your own territory with the forces of the National Guard than on someone else’s with the forces of the Aerospace Forces))
  16. sacha1960 Offline sacha1960
    sacha1960 (Sasha Anton) 6 December 2022 11: 15
    If Russia negotiates now, under its worst conditions, after successive defeats and clear manifestations of political and military impotence (GMP), the result can only be disaster.

    The takeaway is that if GDP doesn't win a clear victory in the next few weeks, it must cede the lead to someone more capable or Russia's future will be really bleak.
    1. sacha1960 Offline sacha1960
      sacha1960 (Sasha Anton) 6 December 2022 12: 23
      I meant some notable victory, not a complete victory, obviously.
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  18. Jstas Offline Jstas
    Jstas (jstas) 8 December 2022 06: 12
    2 Finnish / SVO /, like the first, revealed many shortcomings and rot in leadership, organization, planning, etc. army of the Russian Federation. In a nuclear collision, this is the inevitable defeat of Russia.
    But the survival instinct must work, must work. Otherwise, the Western "partners" will join the GDP to the majority.
    And if Ceausescu was shot, Milosevic was poisoned, Saddam Hussein was hanged, Muammar Gaddafi was torn to pieces, but "tolerantly", then Vova, according to cinematic clichés, is inevitable. And it will hurt him to be stabbed, or with the use of anesthesia - it does not matter for history.
    A typical example of the use of movie plots by NATO interventionists, the provocation in Bucha, was "written off" from the 1964 Polish film "The Law and the Fist".