About losses during the fighting

One of the most painful issues regarding the special operation of the Russian Federation in Ukraine is the question of the ratio of military losses of the parties. Few things are subject to more speculation than combat losses in manpower, armaments and technology. Representatives of both states publish mainly enemy losses as official, while experts, "analytical centers" and intelligence agencies of other countries provide unofficial estimates. All figures are maximally politically biased. No one from the outside is trying to understand the real picture of what is happening, and this is impossible to do, sitting hundreds and thousands of kilometers away, even if you are watching the course of hostilities from space. Moreover, even the parties to the conflict have only a rough idea of ​​each other's losses; from an operational-tactical point of view, it is important for them to take into account not specific numbers of losses, but the general condition of a particular unit.

Of course, the Ukrainian government has a more or less accurate figure of its own losses, and the authorities of the LDNR and the Russian Federation have their own, but these data will not be made public, primarily because of the painful reaction of the public.

War casualty theory

From the point of view of military theory, losses are the inevitable loss of means and forces for conducting combat operations. For every battle, for every line, for every action, one has to pay a price with equipment, health and lives of soldiers and officers. From the point of view of the military, when planning combat operations, allowable losses are taken into account, under which the combat mission can be completed. Exceeding the allowable losses either leads to the impossibility of performing a combat mission due to the exhaustion of the offensive or defensive potential, or to the inexpediency of performing this particular combat mission for tactical or strategic reasons. Moreover, it is precisely the excess of a certain measure of enemy losses that leads to a violation of the organization of the army and its formations, which threatens with incapacity and defeat.

Thus, in military science, the issue of losses is more of an applied nature. Losses are the most important element of the consequence of the conduct of hostilities, due to which the desired result is often achieved. At the same time, on the one hand, losses are far from the only component of success and not even decisive, on the other hand, they are so closely related to all other results of combat influence (for example, morale, disruption of the organization and supply of the enemy, etc.), that without inflicting losses, success does not happen in principle.

It is somewhat incorrect to assume that the ratio of losses of the parties always reflects the level of training, equipment and command of the armed forces of the opponents. Such an approach is justified only in a situation of absolute equality of conditions in which clashes take place, but in real life such situations do not happen. There are a huge number of factors that affect the level of losses, which are almost impossible to manage. Even the general methodological approach that defense delivers fewer losses than offensive does not always work and not under all circumstances. As a rule, a higher level of losses in the campaign as a whole shows not so much the unpreparedness of the side for hostilities as the approach chosen by the political leadership to the use of forces and means.

С political point of view, the question of losses stands in a completely different, non-applied plane. Society always assesses the validity of the conduct of hostilities in terms of the ratio of the results achieved and the losses incurred. This is where ideology comes into play.

Everyone remembers that various Westerners and liberals periodically promote the idea that the defense of Leningrad was a futile undertaking: civilian casualties, their suffering and military losses were not worth defending the city on the Neva. They, under different sauces, argue that Leningrad should have been handed over to the German and Finnish fascists. Whereas our people even today consider such a thought an insult not only to the memory of our great ancestors who defended Leningrad, but also direct complicity with the enemy, a betrayal of the Motherland. At the same time, the Red Army was forced to surrender many cities to the enemy when the situation required it. Stalin did not surrender Leningrad because its defense was more expedient from a strategic point of view, and with the correct organization of the defense of the city, the enemy’s forces and means were, in principle, not enough to capture it. And the Germans, by the way, fought, as the Armed Forces of Ukraine do today, regardless of their own losses. All this was taken into account by the rate in Moscow.

This example of the polarity of opinions about the defense of Leningrad shows that it is the ideology, in this case, the general attitude to the essence of the Great Patriotic War, that determines the logic of assessing the ratio of results and losses.

If someone does not understand the essence of the situation at all, the reasons for the hostilities, then the life of one individual can be put above any military-political results. This is how all the opponents of the special operation think, who hypocritically shout “No to war!”, not noticing that the civil war in Ukraine began in 2014. If they were sitting in the Kremlin in 1941, they would have surrendered the USSR to Hitler in the hope of "drinking Bavarian".

The idea that the violent death of a person is always unacceptable, seemingly beautiful and humane, but infinitely far from objective reality, in which real state violence and clashes are an organic component of the social structure. Someday humanity will come to eternal peace without wars and terror, but this path will be full of struggle, including armed ones.

Therefore, the meaning of the armed conflict itself is decisive in the approach to losses and in their assessment. The more just its goals are recognized, the more catastrophic the consequences of avoiding a conflict or defeat in it, the more loyal the attitude of society towards the magnitude of losses, especially in manpower.

At one time, Stalin officially announced that all losses, both military and among the civilian population, during the Great Patriotic War amounted to about seven million people. A huge figure, which today is even difficult to imagine. But later it turned out to be not enough for Khrushchev, he had to prove Stalin's incompetence at the XX Congress, so he added “demographic losses” to seven million and got 20 million people. He also voiced it to a Western audience without deciphering that it contains "an excess of mortality over births" (from the CSB certificate used by Khrushchev). This figure has been established in historiography. In the late 80s, the Democrats again needed to furiously denounce Stalin, so they commissioned a study that showed an even higher figure - 26 million. It is considered canonical today.

It is difficult to imagine how the USSR restored the economy, became a superpower and an "evil empire" if it suffered such losses in the war. But the point of this story is something else. Namely: the information about the astronomical losses of 26 million people did not cause in our people the effect that those who propagandized it 45 years later expected. These “truth-tellers” hoped that they would convince people that the Great Patriotic War was a dirty stain in the history of the country, that it was better to surrender, that the price of victory was incommensurable. But nothing of the kind happened, because the people in the early 1990s and today perfectly understand the meaning and essence of the Great Patriotic War. Moreover, despite the denigration of Stalin, the Soviet government, the Red Army and the endless glorification of the Germans, the Victory in the war has become an essential element in the self-consciousness of our people.

Thus, in a political sense, they judge losses, evaluate them solely from an understanding of the goals of hostilities and the significance of their result.

What can be said about losses now?

The Ukrainian side, together with Western propagandists, are trying to use the clearly inflated numbers of Russian losses in order to influence Russian society. It seems to them that if they tell the Russians that 50 thousand people died in six months, then the authorities in Russia will not do well. And such a high, unrealistic degree of overestimation of losses is needed so that, even if this figure is divided by two, the result is alarming.

Although it is clear to everyone in Russia that the fighting is fierce, the special operation is far from over and the losses will be significant, this does not cause the effect that Kyiv and Washington are counting on.

Regarding their own losses, representatives of the Ukrainian authorities pour out various statements that are designed to show that they are significantly lower than those of the enemy.

Our military-political leadership last announced losses in March, after which it remains silent. In general, according to the rules of the genre, the state is not supposed to inform about losses during hostilities. Any such information is perceived by society and military personnel with caution. The participants in the hostilities themselves are well aware of the "price" that has to be paid for the performance of combat missions, especially since the command knows this. And no number will tell the people in the rear anything. Human life is priceless in any case.
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  1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
    Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 1 September 2022 20: 44
    Speaking of losses, one more factor must be taken into account. He showed himself even in the issue of holding Leningrad.
    It is known how the Germans treated the Russians - they considered our nation inferior and subject to almost complete destruction, with the exception of slaves, who were needed in a certain amount by the German landowners. The Nazis wanted to raze the city of Lenin to the ground and build a pond in its place. The inhabitants were likely to be massacred. Thus, the losses of the blockade still reduced our overall losses, not to mention the moral advantage of asserting our superiority over the enemy, and not insignificance before him.
    There is a war, and there is something after.
    This AFTER meant for Russia German concentration camps of death throughout the country. As well as the victory of the Americans over us now, no matter how strange it may seem to some. Indeed, in the West, the topic of population reduction is not going to be closed.
    That's all this should be put on the scales of "surrender to the enemy." For an honest count of losses
    1. steelmaker Online steelmaker
      steelmaker 1 September 2022 21: 26
      Here is AFTER

      So that the killer can no longer kill, what needs to be done? ............. What have we been doing for the last 30 years? You absolutely correctly noticed - after. This is the keyword of everything that a person does. And now no one knows what will happen after.
      1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 1 September 2022 22: 02
        This AFTER does not yet exist - it is formed by our actions. Or our inaction
    2. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
      Bulanov (Vladimir) 2 September 2022 11: 36
      Indeed, in the West, the topic of population reduction is not going to be closed.

      Russia has only 145 million people compared to other less wealthy and more populated countries. Therefore, the West was stupid, recording Russia for destruction. Rather, he himself can be destroyed. And in Africa and Asia, as billions of people lived, they will continue to live.
      1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 2 September 2022 18: 39
        It will simply be easier for them to start with us if we are at their complete disposal. The main goal of the States is complete power over the world, for now - over its European part
        1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
          Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 2 September 2022 21: 38
          if we are at their complete disposal

          For those who do not understand - I mean - if and when we find ourselves at their complete disposal, completely exhausted, wounded and bleeding as a result of the war with NATO, into which the United States itself and their assistants are being heavily involved in Ukraine
          1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
            Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 3 September 2022 02: 15
            Our enemy is the States. It is impossible to exchange an enemy, as in a store, for an easier one. He is alone. All other members of the gang are just a consumable tool, directly intended for them to bleed and deplete Russia. Dodging a fight with him himself, we only waste time and effort. We spend the resource of his fear of the victories of our ancestors and the remnants of our dignity.
            A little more time will pass and he will not believe even our most serious threats against him.
            1. syndicalist Offline syndicalist
              syndicalist (Dimon) 6 September 2022 08: 38
              Our enemy is around the perimeter of the border. Now the 2 main enemies have finally reached an agreement on the division of the former USSR. The United States here claims only influence in the western part, and China for the rest.
    3. Muscool Offline Muscool
      Muscool (Glory) 2 September 2022 12: 53
      The Germans did not intend to take it. The order was to starve everyone to death, and if civilians start to leave the city, then shoot them.
      + The Leningrad Front fettered a fairly large group of Nazis,
  2. Nord11 Offline Nord11
    Nord11 (Sergei) 1 September 2022 21: 04
    Well, about the uncountable losses by Germany, it is true only at the final stage of the war and the agony of the Wehrmacht. Considered how. Each commander of an army unit reported on the validity of the losses, otherwise he could easily be demoted. Remember, if during the offensive they ran into strong resistance, then they rolled back and called in artillery and aircraft and attacked already with tank support. Well, there was no practice of taking cities at any cost by significant dates and by the Fuhrer's birthday ..
  3. k7k8 Offline k7k8
    k7k8 (vic) 1 September 2022 22: 10
    And the Germans, by the way, fought, like the Armed Forces of Ukraine today, regardless of their own losses

    A highly controversial statement
    1. Indifferent Offline Indifferent
      Indifferent 2 September 2022 02: 24
      If the Germans counted their losses, they would not have had to gather children (Hitler Youth) and old people (Volkssturm) for the war at the final stage of the war. Destroyed all their men! And this despite the fact that the whole of Europe fought against us! And the official figures of German losses are "ceiling". To do this, you need to carefully read how they were taken into account.
      1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
        k7k8 (vic) 2 September 2022 10: 27
        Even after the declaration of total war in Germany, no persons employed in the real sector of the economy were drafted into the army. Only those who were not involved in the industry were called up for the Volkssturm you mentioned. And the Hitler Youth was generally organized in 1926 as an organization to prepare young men (there were no girls in it) for service in the armed forces. It was something like our DOSAAF, but with a very aggressive bias and with an incredibly strong ideological pumping.
    2. lemeshkin Offline lemeshkin
      lemeshkin (lemeshkin) 2 September 2022 20: 10
      That's right. On the contrary, they often organized military operations too meticulously, for example, shelling at the same time.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
    Yuri V.A (Yuri) 2 September 2022 04: 07
    The level of losses characterizes the competence of the leadership, especially when declaring the priority of maintaining personnel. Therefore, transparency will be avoided to the last, uncomfortable questions may arise.
  6. Pat Rick Offline Pat Rick
    Pat Rick 2 September 2022 06: 37
    And the Germans, by the way, fought, as the Armed Forces of Ukraine do today, regardless of their own losses.

    I didn’t read further: there’s no need to read all the dregs. Let the writer compare the losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht.

    We advanced on Rzhev through corpse fields. During the Rzhev battles, many "valleys of death" and "groves of death" appeared. It is difficult for those who have not been there to imagine what a mess, stinking under the summer sun, consisting of thousands of human bodies covered with worms, is like. Summer, heat, calm, and ahead - such a "valley of death." It is well visible and shot through by the Germans. There is no way to bypass or bypass it: a telephone cable is laid along it - it is interrupted, and by all means it must be quickly connected. You crawl over the corpses, and they are heaped in three layers, swollen, teeming with worms, emitting a sickening sweetish smell of decomposition of human bodies. This stench hangs motionless over the "valley". The explosion of a shell drives you under the corpses, the soil trembles, the corpses fall on you, showering you with worms, a fountain of pernicious stench beats in your face. But then fragments flew by, you jump up, shake yourself off and again - forward.
    - Pyotr Mikhin. "Gunners, Stalin gave the order!" We died to win.
    1. Dima Offline Dima
      Dima (Dmitriy) 2 September 2022 15: 12
      Let the writer compare the losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht

      - so they have long been known and, taking into account the losses of Germany's allies, are approximately 1,1 / 1.
      1. Pat Rick Offline Pat Rick
        Pat Rick 2 September 2022 18: 06
        We are talking about the Germans (Wehrmacht), and not about the allies of Germany.
        Learn to understand the meaning of what you read.
        1. zenion Offline zenion
          zenion (zinovy) 2 September 2022 20: 41
          Still, you should read the book "Barracks" written by an SS tanker. When the Germans wanted to defeat the Red Army on the Kursk Bulge, they did not consider losses. The German command knew that this would not give Germany any superiority in the war with the USSR. This was necessary from a political point of view, also for the USSR. They shattered Germany in such a way that the Western allies of the USSR realized that now it is possible to intervene on the side of Russia and make a profit. The United States and England then sought Stalin's help against the war with Japan. They insisted to the last, even after the bombings with nuclear weapons. The Japanese surrendered when their army on the mainland was destroyed by the Red Army. The Germans interestingly calculated their losses when they did not include in the lost all those who died on the third day from wounds. They died from the lack of medical care, and not from the fact that he was killed by the enemy. Read the book "Barracks".
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        2. Dima Offline Dima
          Dima (Dmitriy) 4 September 2022 17: 36
          Do not be rude and distort the cards. It is very convenient to isolate all the allies and "volunteers" who fought on the Eastern Front, and then goon about the huge losses of the Red Army. What difference does it make whether the Spaniards, Italians, Hungarians, Slovaks, Romanians, Finns, Poles, French and other bastards were in the Wehrmacht or not, when our soldiers died during the battles with them.
  7. Kapany3 Offline Kapany3
    Kapany3 2 September 2022 06: 49
    I discovered something new from this article - losses in the Second World War. 7 million people TOTAL. Not 20, not 27, but only 7 million.
    1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
      k7k8 (vic) 2 September 2022 08: 07
      Stalin's assessment of losses is the combat losses of the army and navy. Having voiced these losses, Stalin did not have in mind the losses among civilians, in concentration camps, sanitary losses, etc., because. there was no real way to evaluate them at that time. But the author modestly kept silent about the history of the appearance of the assessment of losses by Stalin.
  8. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 2 September 2022 10: 12
    And, again, some kind of special confusion, without giving numbers and estimates.

    And the Germans, by the way, fought, like the Armed Forces of Ukraine today, regardless of their own losses

    - indeed, a deliberate distortion of history ....
  9. oleg Pesotsky Offline oleg Pesotsky
    oleg Pesotsky (Oleg Pesotsky) 2 September 2022 11: 14
    How is everyone presenting the Wehrmacht! They say they took care of people and did not climb on the rampage. This is nonsense. The figures for the Berlin operation - the Germans are about 900 thousand. The Red Army - 1 million. 100 thousand. Losses: Red Army - irretrievable 75 thousand. Wehrmacht - 300 thousand prisoners and about 10 thousand were able to escape to the Allied zone. There are no exact figures for the dead. Who fled who was killed. But the result speaks for itself.
    1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
      k7k8 (vic) 2 September 2022 11: 43
      Quote: oleg Pesotsky
      How is everyone presenting the Wehrmacht!

      How we like to wishful thinking. An unbiased statement of facts has already become the glorification of the enemy.
      And what did you confirm with your post? The fact that the Red Army did not lose a single person as prisoners in the Berlin operation? It would be very strange if this were not the case.
  10. kriten Offline kriten
    kriten (Vladimir) 2 September 2022 11: 31
    Since the MO is silent, the losses are not small. Sound afraid. They talk about the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but it seems that somewhere you need to divide by 2, somewhere multiply by 3.
    1. Saffron Offline Saffron
      Saffron (Igor) 2 September 2022 13: 07
      Therefore, they are silent, because for the majority, both 10 thousand and 50 thousand will be terrible. And those who understand (which the author calls for) only by the result will be able to assess the validity of these victims. But in my opinion, and given the Western madness, so far they are very justified.
  11. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 2 September 2022 12: 34
    Any losses directly depend on: the upcoming period, the preparatory period, direct military clashes - where all the magnitudes and causes of losses are revealed. With politically high-quality planning, major victories are achieved and almost without losses - these are political, ideological, moral victories without a hot phase. Russia could achieve victory over the enemy west in Ukraine if guided by these levers. Yes, petty swindlers with powers of authority, such as V. Surkov and others like them, such deep political planning is not up to the task, momentary benefits that later turn into bloody confrontations were beyond understanding ... Another option is also possible, V. Surkovs and others like them, understood the prospects and acted to the detriment of the Russian Federation, but for the benefit of enemies (Surkov, by his mother, Israel) ... Conclusion: Every state is sentenced to defeat if it cannot defend itself, both internally and externally ..
  12. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 2 September 2022 15: 12
    a strange treacherous little article ..... after a long boring ranting on the topic. right up to the defense of Leningrad, the number desired by the Nazis is announced ..... firstly, it must be divided by at least ten and it must be admitted that since the beginning of the operation, the losses of the Nazis amounted to almost 300 thousand, .. and why the author tells millions of deaths in the Second World War not in order for us to believe in the amount of our losses inflated by the Nazis? the number is clearly overstated because the very number of our soldiers is only 100 thousand involved, with 10 times superiority in means of destruction, our losses are essentially random and not of a systemic nature, and the losses of the Nazis are systemic because entire battalions are knocked out with the help of our ARTA just yesterday almost three thousand thugs
    1. Pat Rick Offline Pat Rick
      Pat Rick 2 September 2022 18: 10
      and the losses of the Nazis are systemic, because entire battalions are knocked out with the help of our ART only yesterday almost three thousand scumbags

      Only for me, starting from May-June, the question arises: are the battalions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine like trees in the forest? And "thugs" like water in the ocean?
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 2 September 2022 18: 54
        41 167 336 people
        According to the State Statistics Service of Ukraine, the estimated actual population of Ukraine as of January 1, 2022 was 41 people, which is 167 thousand people less than the same indicator of the previous year. Thus, the draft contingent of Ukraine is up to 336 million people.....
        1. Pat Rick Offline Pat Rick
          Pat Rick 2 September 2022 19: 43
          You are all foaming at the mouth around the clock proving that the State Statistics Service of Ukraine cannot be trusted. And at the same time, you really love that all Ukrainians wash Polish toilets. You already decide whether they clean Polish toilets or thin out the Russian army.
          1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 2 September 2022 21: 36
            thanks for such attention to my person, about Polish toilets, this is already a long-standing idea, it was, then the whole party picked up, everyone knows this in general .... well, even if half washes toilets, then another 3 million cannon fodder remains with the losses of ukrofascists in 300- 500 thousand (yesterday Krivonos confirmed) for six months ..... you can still cut them into small pieces, 2.5 years, then there really will be no males left in the so-called Ukraine. although I think another two million will run away to the Russian Federation or to the forest (well, not all the inhabitants of Ukraine are stupid sheep), it turns out that the reserves of the APU will completely dry out by December 2022
        2. silver169 Offline silver169
          silver169 (Aristarkh Feliksovich) 3 September 2022 01: 51
          to vladimir 1155 This is an "estimated" number. The real number of the actual population of Ukraine is much less. More than 10 million of its citizens permanently live outside of Ukraine alone, who most likely will never return there. Keep in mind that the official all-Ukrainian population census was conducted back in 2001. And this is no accident. I do not think that the total population of Ukraine currently exceeds 30 million.
          1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 3 September 2022 07: 22
            well, it means that the fascist ukromyaso will end not in December, but in October, why feel sorry for the fascists, dog death to dogs, but those who fled from the fascists will be able to return later, they will restore the country after the fascist occupation
  13. Pat Rick Offline Pat Rick
    Pat Rick 2 September 2022 20: 04
    I just read it today.
    There is General Sergei Krivonos in Ukraine - in some kind of black uniform, bald, with a gray beard. So he directly wrote somewhere or said that the losses of Ukraine amount to several hundred thousand people. He directly voiced these figures in the context of the fact that the relatives of these hundreds of thousands will someday present this to Ze and his pack.
    I hate Krivonos because he is an enemy (smart, strong, treacherous and mean).
    But after all, we don’t know Russian generals in the NMD, and we have their thoughts behind hundreds of seals, so we can only guess about the losses of the Russian army. There are no such people in Russia - in black uniforms, bald and with a gray beard, who say at least something related to reality.
    1. Monster_Fat Offline Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat (What's the difference) 3 September 2022 03: 57
      Check out Oryx. There are losses, and according to the technique with a photo of each lost unit
  14. yakisam Offline yakisam
    yakisam (Alexander) 3 September 2022 11: 13
    So much reasoning and everything ... empty
    The fact is that the government is obliged to inform citizens of this information.
    1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
      k7k8 (vic) 3 September 2022 13: 09
      Quote: yakisam
      The fact is that the government is obliged to inform citizens of this information.

      Maybe you will voice in the history of which country this happened at least once? For example, in the United States, data on losses in Afghanistan are still classified, although they left there more than a year ago.
      The fact is that the state should in no case indulge sofa iksperds and street crowds.
  15. Alex R_2 Offline Alex R_2
    Alex R_2 (Alex R) 4 September 2022 00: 45
    HRV losses according to British intelligence mi-6 and the Air Force as of July 28.07 for 5 months are minimal - 4760 people, losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - more than 200 thousand people