Can the special operation end with the liberation of Donbass


Perhaps the main fear of many thinking Russians and adequate Ukrainians today is that a special military operation in Ukraine can only end with the liberation of the DPR and LPR, and not its entire territory from the power of the pro-Western Nazi regime in Kyiv. Let's try to imagine what the consequences of such an imprudent choice of our military-political leadership might be.


History lessons


Unfortunately, the reason to raise this topic again and again is given by the noticeably changed rhetoric of the authorities and the federal media, which stubbornly call the SVO a “special operation to liberate Donbass.” If earlier it was emphasized that its goals are also the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, now there are more streamlined formulations that it is necessary to create conditions that ensure the security of Russia itself.

On July 29, 2022, President Vladimir Putin outlined the tasks of the ongoing special operation as follows:

The ultimate goal I have outlined is the liberation of Donbass, the protection of these people and the creation of conditions that would guarantee the security of Russia itself.

In fairness, we note that, speaking at the Army-2022 forum in Patriot Park, the Russian president stated the need to combat neo-Nazism and Russophobia:

The lessons of the terrible tragedy to which Nazism led mankind in the XNUMXth century must not be forgotten. Our duty to the memory of the millions of victims of World War II is to react harshly to attempts to falsify history, to counteract the spread of any form of neo-Nazism, Russophobia and racism.

The fact that Vladimir Vladimirovich appeals to the lessons of history is somewhat encouraging. How can one not recall the famous words of the French Marshal Foch, who, having familiarized himself with the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, which recorded the results of the First World War, prophetically declared:

This is not peace, this is a truce that will last 20 years.

And so it happened, exactly two decades later the Second World War began. Whether it's good or bad, but this time we won't have so much time to build up.

CBO is finished, thanks everyone?


So, imagine for a moment that the late autumn of 2022 is in the yard, the Slavic-Kramatorsk agglomeration fell, the territory of the DPR and LPR was finally liberated. The officially announced final goal of protecting Donbass has finally been achieved. As part of the already established tradition, the Kremlin is making another “goodwill gesture” by suspending further offensives in other directions and going on the defensive. Instead of war, Moscow, under the unanimous approval of the "civilized West", is extending the hand of peace and friendship to Kyiv. Ukraine is invited to sit down at the negotiating table and agree on coexistence on a good-neighborly basis, if it meets Russia halfway and fulfills a number of its conditions: refuse to develop weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, reduce the size of the army, ban discredited nationalist and right-wing radical organizations such as Azov ” (recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation). Is such a turn of events possible?

The key question is whether the Kremlin's unilateral denial of any further offensive in Ukraine will be enough to bring the undeclared war to an end?

Alas, but no. Of course, we can stop ourselves, going into the deep defense of the Donbass and the Azov region, but Ukraine, or rather, its Western curators, will not stop fighting with Russia because of this. In fact, a unilateral refusal to continue the offensive and liberate the entire territory of the former Nezalezhnaya not only will not solve any of the declared goals of the special operation, but will only exacerbate them.

At first, like us celebrated earlier, Kyiv will simply again stop supplying water to the DPR and LPR, blocking the Dnieper-Donbass canal. Being completely without water in apartments freezing without central heating in the winter of 2022-2023 means an agonizing death for tens of thousands of innocent people. No hastily laid pipelines will help, since they will be the number one target for long-range cannon and rocket artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Without access to the Dnieper, the problem of the survival of Donbass is simply unsolvable. The alternative is to bow to the Ukrainian Nazis, who, in return for water supplies, will set a condition, for example, for the “demilitarization” of not only the ZNPP, but also Kherson.

Secondly, Kyiv will get a respite to retrain and re-equip its army to Western standards. Only London has promised to train 120 Ukrainian troops every 10000 days according to NATO methods, but the scale could increase if other NATO members join the process. Since the Russian Armed Forces will not reach the Polish border, the Zelensky regime will retain the ability to receive any weapons and ammunition from the countries of the North Atlantic Alliance. That is, the task of demilitarizing the Square will be 100% failed.

The Ukrainian Nazis use the time given to them to create a layered defense system in other cities of the South-East and Central Ukraine - in Dnepropetrovsk, Pavlograd, Krivoy Rog, Nikolaev, Odessa, Sumy, Chernigov, Kyiv. In the end, the allied forces will still have to go there, but the price of the issue will increase many times over. Why would you have to go there? Because the Armed Forces of Ukraine will switch to the tactics of systemic terror in the territory of Donbass, the Azov Sea and Crimea, which Kyiv considers its own. Look at what is already happening in Crimea and around the Zaporozhye NPP. These are flowers.

Thirdly, instead of denazification of Ukraine, its maximum nazification will take place. Russophobes have already received their main trump card that Russia is “the first to attack”, and they are using it as much as possible against it. Russia will be fiercely hated not only by those whose families received funerals from the Eastern Front, but also by those Russians and adequate Ukrainians who will remain in Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Sumy, Kyiv. For some, this will be a sincere impulse, for others it will be a matter of banal survival under the Nazis. Is it possible in your mind to allow such an outcome of events?

I really hope that everyone in the Kremlin understands this and does not voluntarily jump into such an obvious historical rake. Let's hope.
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  1. gene1 Offline gene1
    gene1 (Gennady) 16 August 2022 19: 18
    -14
    Enough already to call for erasing cities from the face of the earth. Slavyansk-Kramatorsk is the maximum that we will take. The scenario is as follows: poverty, looting, raiding, CHAOS throughout Ukraine. The decision of the UN Security Council on the deployment of peacekeepers. Peacekeepers. Partition of Ukraine.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 16 August 2022 19: 38
      0
      In many ways, they are right, even the DPR is being liberated by "centimeter". one village a week, and until the new year, liberate the DPR, The problem is the resistance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, so far fierce, up to the loss of the personnel of the units by half, or even up to two-thirds, and this is a significant indicator of resistance .. There is a confrontation between Russia and Ukraine for the next century, therefore it is high time to "start in a serious way", history does not forgive a relaxed attitude. NWO is good intentions, but the basis of what is happening is completely different.
      1. Victorio Offline Victorio
        Victorio (Victorio) 17 August 2022 08: 15
        +4
        Quote: Vladimir Tuzakov
        The problem is the resistance of the APU,

        I think there would be a desire / decision, then the Russian army, with all its might, would crush the defense of the whole very, very quickly. and the nationalists and national patriots who remained / entrenched in large cities capitulated without any reason. but there is something that pushed this scenario into the background, which we do not know.
        1. guest Offline guest
          guest 17 August 2022 17: 22
          -1
          Quote: Victorio
          but there is something that pushed this scenario into the background

          It's just a business, nothing personal, Gazprom once again paid for transit through Ukraine.
          1. Victorio Offline Victorio
            Victorio (Victorio) 18 August 2022 11: 25
            +1
            Quote: guest
            just a business, nothing personal, Gazprom once again paid for transit through Ukraine.

            I don't think it's much bigger
        2. Marciz Offline Marciz
          Marciz (Stas) 18 August 2022 14: 50
          0
          There is also a nuclear power plant, you all know!
    2. Colonel Kudasov Offline Colonel Kudasov
      Colonel Kudasov (Boris) 16 August 2022 22: 03
      +2
      Yes, such a scenario is more realistic, but the worst is not excluded, as it is now seen.
  2. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
    Krapilin (Victor) 16 August 2022 19: 27
    -5
    Let's try to imagine what the consequences of such an imprudent choice of our military-political leadership might be.

    Author!

    And what, the military-political leadership of Russia voiced to you personally such a "planned" choice by him?
  3. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
    Krapilin (Victor) 16 August 2022 19: 34
    -6
    The fact that Vladimir Vladimirovich appeals to the lessons of history is somewhat encouraging.

    Author!
    All your hope has already been voiced by you by calling for the creation of a "some kind of anti-Ukraine" on the territories of Russia and Novorossia currently occupied by the Ukronazis.
    But such a proposal from you is nothing more than a cynical appeal of another analytical Russophobia to a public audience.
    1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
      Michael L. 16 August 2022 19: 46
      +11
      You can disagree with the Author, but accuse him of ... Russophobia?
      In such cases, they say: Do not tell my slippers!
      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
        Krapilin (Victor) 16 August 2022 20: 32
        -6
        Dear Mikhail L.!

        Especially for you and your slippers:

        The author in his next "analytical opus" piles up problems only for Russia.

        But winter has not yet come: neither in Europe, nor "outside the Ukrainian" regions, with which Poland planned to increase its territory.

        The war with demons is going on hybrid now. And soon another front will open on it - the weather one. At which “temperatures for us” will be commanded by “General Frost” - after conferring with V.V. Putin.

        The most interesting thing may be that this winter in Europe will be cooler than the “nuclear winter” - and you won’t have to bomb them vigorously with a loaf ...
        1. Victorio Offline Victorio
          Victorio (Victorio) 17 August 2022 08: 18
          +3
          Quote: Krapilin
          analytical opus

          firstly, the author is a journalist, and his business is to write and write. and the second - why is your analytical opus better, do you know what winter will be like?

          We look forward to your analytics and publications. .
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 09: 54
            -3
            Dear Victorio (Victorio)!

            Journalist!? And what kind of profession is this - "a connoisseur of a wide profile from all sorts of sciences"?
            That is, a person without basic education.
            This is the first.

            Secondly, certain publications are the prerogative of the site's editorial policy: who to publish.
            They will offer to publish - I will certainly respond.
            So your expectation is not for me.
            1. Victorio Offline Victorio
              Victorio (Victorio) 17 August 2022 10: 02
              +2
              Quote: Krapilin
              Dear Victorio (Victorio)!

              Journalist!? And what kind of profession is this - "a connoisseur of a wide profile from all sorts of sciences"?
              That is, a person without basic education.
              This is the first.

              Secondly, certain publications are the prerogative of the site's editorial policy: who to publish.
              Offer to publish - I will definitely respond.
              So your expectation is not for me.

              that's exactly what it is.
              is there anything to offer? What sciences are you yourself?
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 10: 19
                -2
                Dear Victorio (Victorio)!

                Yes, you are right - that is exactly what it is, more precisely: a journalist is a person WITHOUT education, trained in the "written colloquial genre" without any responsibility for his words: either Japan is still at war with Russia, or some kind of "anti-Ukraine" must be preserved , then in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation "no one understands anything" and so on.

                Such journalists - "full TV" and "full Internet". But in the trenches - completely different people.
                Let him climb the trenches, talk with the fighters, and then what is there already "analytically fantasizes" about how "everything is lost."

                At the expense of "offer" - I repeat - not for me.
                1. Victorio Offline Victorio
                  Victorio (Victorio) 17 August 2022 11: 51
                  +3
                  journalists are different, there are some with non-core education.

                  Quote: Krapilin
                  At the expense of "offer" - I repeat - not for me.

                  so please / please, refresh this or that topic with a new look. and you haven't written about your education yet?.
                  1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                    Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 14: 56
                    -2
                    Dear Victorio (Victorio)!

                    You see, you yourself say that a journalist is not a profession that needs to be learned. Journalism is a calling. Which is either there or it is not - as a concomitant to one or another technical / humanitarian education.
                    In this case, the author does not speak of a journalistic vocation at all - it is absent.

                    All that remains is the field of "analysis" ...
                    But here the author has bottomless gaps in historical knowledge, which for an analyst is akin to the role of a "headless horseman."

                    As for Krapilin...
                    Why are you interested in?
                    1. Victorio Offline Victorio
                      Victorio (Victorio) 18 August 2022 12: 44
                      0
                      Quote: Krapilin
                      You see, you yourself say that a journalist is not a profession that needs to be learned.

                      I do not approve or endorse this. everything needs to be learned. I studied management, and there they also teach everything and superficially, as you write - "an expert on a wide profile from all sorts of sciences."

                      Quote: Krapilin
                      Why are you interested in?

                      the usual question, what is the basis for your reasoning?
                      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 21: 40
                        0
                        Dear Victorio (Victorio)!

                        Once again, journalism is a calling. Almost like poetry. To make it clear: the USSR had both a literary institute and a writers' union, and so on. etc., where "poets and writers developed."
                        But here, for example, V.S. Vysotsky "was not involved in anything of them".
                        What is the result?
                        Vysotsky FOREVER, and thousands of "certified writers-poets" - in oblivion, because of their worthlessness.
                        And "over-nonsti" ... the very one that you were "taught".

                        There are tens of thousands of certified managers in Russia, and as a result of such management, an all-Russian infrastructural mess.

                        As for Krapilin, he is definitely not a "journalist" ...
            2. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
              Marzhecki (Sergei) 20 August 2022 10: 57
              0
              About education. According to the first I am a lawyer, I graduated from the law faculty with honors. He worked in the state and municipal service in his specialty.
              According to the second I am a journalist, I graduated with honors. My work as a journalist was highly appreciated by colleagues from RIA FAN
              Now I am getting my third education in the magistracy of political science and I am writing a dissertation on the topic of political rebranding.
              Tell me, Vitya, what can you boast of?
              1. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
                vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 20 August 2022 13: 18
                +1
                If you are a graduate student, then you are young. The color of the diploma does not allow you to determine the level of qualification. For example, when defending a dissertation for the degree of candidate, doctor of science, a diploma of the same color is issued, regardless of how you defended yourself and how famous you are in the world. Your level will be determined by the work, not the color. To ask

                Tell me, Vitya, what can you boast of?

                indecent, maybe a person does not want to boast. The answer to the article is yes. You don't need to reply to the comment.
              2. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 20 August 2022 16: 04
                +1
                Dear Marzhetsky (Sergey)!

                Not for boasting, but for information - Krapilin works as a watchman.
                But just what does this change regarding your denseness, the foundation of which is multi-colored diplomas + "third" educations?

                Japan, then, is at war with Russia?!

        2. Firuz Offline Firuz
          Firuz (Firuz) 17 August 2022 08: 31
          +9
          Krapilin are you a bot, or do you lack an analytical mind, or do you just want to write nonsense here?
          The author clearly assessed the situation and outlined his vision of the situation, which I think coincides with many people who are watching all this from the very beginning. And it is clear that, unlike you, apparently the author is watching alternative sources that remind what Putin and the media initially said about the goals of the NWO and what they are saying now.
          I am not a citizen of the Russian Federation, and as many people around the world honestly thought, the Russian Federation would take control of Ukraine in a week or a maximum of a month (even in the West and in Ukraine itself they thought so). But what is happening now is a complete mess.
          And now, after the supply of weapons from the West and the transition of Ukraine to NATO standards with the available forces of the NWO (which have decreased compared to the first month), it will be oh so difficult for the Russian Federation to control the already existing territories. And thus, as the author noted, the two main goals that were set will work completely and vice versa:
          1. Full Nazification of Ukraine (in relation to Russia)
          2. Full militarization of Ukraine already according to NATO standards and weapons. The only solution is either mobilization in Russia and the complete capture of Ukraine up to Lvov (thus putting the Western countries before a fact) or a reverse withdrawal as of 24/Feb. Because those countries that support the Russian Federation or at least "for the time being" to keep neutrality after a while will get tired of the burden of the crisis and depression, which is now slowly taking over the world economy and will stop supporting (and with China, be calm, they will agree as they already did in the 70- e, A aggravation with Taiwan of the prerequisites for this treaty). But simply by limiting the Donbass and priazov this senseless death of so many people and military equipment for now and in the future (moreover, many officers who have been training for years and spending large sums die).
          And of course, it will be difficult for Europe without gas, but they will not die from this, as the state media presuppose it. He gets used to everything and Europeans are no exception.
          .
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 09: 58
            -5
            Dear Firuz (Firuz)!

            Here the winter will show - what and how.

            As for the author...
            He publicly announced his proposal to preserve some kind of "anti-Ukraine".
            The question is, how to his "lawyer", to you - for what?
            1. guest Offline guest
              guest 18 August 2022 14: 59
              +2
              Firstly, about anti-Ukraine, this is in another topic, and secondly, anti-Ukraine is just the opposite of anti-Russia.
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 21: 43
                0
                Dear Guest!

                There was and is no anti-Russia.
                It's like with the "enemies of the people" under the communists.
                Because: if you are an enemy, then this is not your people.
                Would you mind thinking...
          2. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
            vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 20 August 2022 13: 31
            +1
            You're right. Most have overestimated their brains regarding Ukraine. The time factor works against the people of the Russian Federation. Perhaps the goal of the NWO is to consolidate power, and not in Ukraine itself, the NWO will continue until 2024, i.e. before the elections. In this case, everything goes according to plan. There will be a victory before the elections.
        3. guest Offline guest
          guest 17 August 2022 17: 28
          +3
          I also disagree with the author in some parts, but I hope for "General Frost", "Colonel Zhara" and other "weather allies" this is really stupid.
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 19: 05
            -1
            Dear guest!

            And who said that "heat" and "frost" are the main generals? It was said that the war is hybrid, in which, in addition to gunpowder and explosives, energy carriers + the collapse of production in their absence will play a very important role.
            1. guest Offline guest
              guest 18 August 2022 15: 03
              +1
              Of course, this is all correct, but it is impossible to rely only on all these factors, the last 8 years have confirmed this.
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 21: 46
                0
                Dear guest!

                And where does "one hope? Energy carriers in the modern world are the same weapon.
                Here it will be used to the maximum ...
        4. Marciz Offline Marciz
          Marciz (Stas) 18 August 2022 14: 54
          +1
          Do you think the West did not think about General Frost !?
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 21: 47
            0
            Dear marciz (Stas)!

            And "West" - who exactly is this?
  4. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
    Krapilin (Victor) 16 August 2022 19: 49
    -4
    True, with Japan, we are formally at war with the Second World War

    Author!

    A Japanese proverb says: "And sometimes a monkey falls from a tree," which corresponds to our proverb - "Even an old woman has a hole."

    Your failure-with-fall, author, is in your own ugly historical education.
    And this lack of education encourages you to support the myth about the supposedly legal state of the war between Russia and Japan.

    Here are the facts:

    In the Soviet-Japanese joint declaration signed on October 19, 1956, and then ratified by the parliaments of both countries, Article 1 states: “The state of war between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and Japan ceases from the day this declaration enters into force, and peace is restored between them and good neighborly relations."
    But after all, both in Japan and in Russia it is well known that the peace treaty for Tokyo is only a means to achieve its goal of reviewing the results of the Second World War and “returning” the territories lost by the decision of the victorious countries. Other issues of politics and diplomacy cannot be resolved by a peace treaty, because they were resolved long ago in the Joint Declaration of 1956. It spells out and reflects all the issues of post-war settlement that usually make up the content of peace treaties, including the question of territorial delimitation ...

    https://regnum-ru.turbopages.org/regnum.ru/s/news/2547165.html

    Ratified by the two sides - the USSR and Japan - the declaration, the author, closed the question of the state of war.
    The wording about the "lack of a peace treaty" is a ploy by Japan "in its own interests" - as mentioned above.
    1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
      Michael L. 16 August 2022 19: 55
      +2
      They have risen above the Author.
      Knowledge shone.
      But they are off topic!
      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
        Krapilin (Victor) 16 August 2022 20: 08
        0
        Dear Mikhail L.!

        Nobody pulled the author to blurt out about the "war with Japan".
        This is the first.

        Secondly, if the author is so "shamefully swimming" in historical issues, then this means that any topic "analyzed" by him will be a "set of knowledge" from Wikipedia, rumors, gossip and inscriptions on the fences.
        1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
          Michael L. 17 August 2022 11: 03
          +2
          The stupid nit-picking of the Author is justified by this generalizing "opus".
          With what, congratulations! ;-(
          I propose to write my ... classical version on any topic.
          And we will read and compare: "a speck of dust in another's eye with a log in our own"!
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 15: 00
            -1
            Dear Mikhail L.!

            These or those publications are the prerogative of the editorial policy of the site: who to publish.
            They will offer to publish - I will certainly respond.

            Then look for: both "logs" and "dust particles", and "trunks" and "branches" ...
            1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
              Michael L. 17 August 2022 18: 22
              +1
              Dear Krapilin (Victor),
              The editors already (!) invite everyone not only to comment, but also to send materials for publication.
              And there is no need to look for "logs": "And Odessa will be tactically blocked" - this is today in "Why the West is so afraid of the loss of the South-East by Nazi Ukraine."
              One "s" offended "Odessa-mother"! ;-(
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 19: 10
                -2
                Dear Mikhail L.!

                Yes, for Odessa with one "s" I apologize - inattention on my part. Do not take the trouble to accept an apology and transfer them to the "Odessa-Mama".
                Moreover, Pushkinskaya Street, the 13th station of the Bolshoi Fountain, Cheryomushki, and Near Mills are almost native places.

                And to send - yet does not mean to be published.
                1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
                  Michael L. 17 August 2022 19: 29
                  0
                  Your apologies are of no use to me, especially since, as you can understand: initially I "did not notice the log."
                  And “offending almost native places” is all the more shameful.
                  Give them your apologies...without mediation!
                  1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                    Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 21: 19
                    -2
                    Dear Mikhail L!

                    To admit a mistake is not a shame, but an adequacy. Do not understand the adequacy - that's the shame.

                    I give the phrase: if you understand - use it.
  5. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
    Michael L. 16 August 2022 19: 52
    +2
    The relative toothlessness of the Russian leadership does not inspire sympathy.
    Nevertheless, it cannot be ruled out that V. Putin is satisfied with a permanent conflict that prevents Ukraine from joining NATO, and that he expects an economic collapse, to which Ukraine is steadily sliding.
    Time will tell!
    1. InanRom Offline InanRom
      InanRom (Ivan) 17 August 2022 18: 33
      +2
      Toothlessness is not relative, but complete. And, the Russian government promised a collapse in Ukraine since 2014 and the collapse of the country 404, but something is not quite right .... either from the junta and the criminal regime, the Ukrainian authorities became in an instant handshake "colleagues and partners", then instead of collapse, bases appeared and NATO laboratories and for 8 years they dragged it all ....
      In the meantime:

      15.20 Alexander Khodakovsky on the future of the liberated territories:

      “Today, in a conversation, the question was asked: will the propagandists be able to quickly set the population in the liberated territories of Zaporozhye and Kherson region for sympathy and loyalty to us? He replied that propagandists - no, but economists - yes. People no longer believe in words - they believe in deeds. When harvesters come in and help harvest, they believe. When the harvest is bought up at a price close to the market, and not for nothing, they believe. When they are fed with talk about a future happy life, they do not believe.

      They are neither bad nor good - they are ordinary people who go with the flow and adapt to the surrounding reality. They should survive now. Help them survive - and then build a long-term program to eliminate the consequences of Ukrainization. But in parallel with this, Ukraine needs to be eradicated from Russia itself.".

      last sentence to the point.
      Meanwhile:

      15.10 Revenues from oil and gas exports of the Russian Federation will amount to $2022 billion in 337,5 against $244,2 billion in 2021, the forecast of the Ministry of Economic Development.

      and who became the beneficiary of this joy? anyone except the population of Russia. And time will tell that this will continue to be the case. To whom war and prices, to whom "mother is dear" and cuts.
      And one more note - when and in what country did the fight against non-human Nazis have the character of "one's own", and not a war not for life, but for death ?! and why?! If such "toothlessness" - then it was better not to open your mouth. And why do Russian soldiers, officers and residents of Donbass, who heroically fight against the Nazis, while talking heads bleat in the TV box, pay with their lives for the "toothlessness" and impotence of those in power?!
      meanwhile:

      18.15 In the Smolensk region, a “training delivery of agendas” began to residents of the region under the age of 60, who are registered with the military commissariats. Areas and headquarters for alerting districts and rural settlements will be deployed in the region. Citizens who have received a summons will have to appear at the address and within the time specified in the summons to clarify personal data.
      “The training is carried out in order to check the compliance of the capabilities and condition of the districts and warning headquarters of municipalities, to clarify the temporary indicators of their work,” AiF-Smolensk quotes the press service of the regional administration.
  6. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 16 August 2022 20: 11
    +8
    Ukraine is invited to sit down at the negotiating table and agree on coexistence on a good-neighborly basis, if it meets Russia halfway and fulfills a number of its conditions: refuse to develop weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, reduce the size of the army, ban discredited nationalist and right-wing radical organizations such as Azov ” (recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation). Is such a turn of events possible?

    Absolutely impossible. Ukraine's demands have been voiced repeatedly and quite by officials. For example, the President of Ukraine. Ukraine will not refuse any of the demands.
    Conditions for Ukraine: the withdrawal of all Russian troops from the borders of 2014, the return of the Crimea, billions (possibly trillions of reparations). Development and possession of WMD, prohibition of the Russian language. What else have I forgotten?
    Is a peace treaty possible on such terms?
    1. cooper Offline cooper
      cooper (Alexander) 17 August 2022 08: 50
      0
      Don't say gop.. Everything can change drastically almost overnight...
  7. Dust Offline Dust
    Dust (Sergei) 16 August 2022 21: 36
    +11
    Stopping Putin only in the Donbass is also not the best solution. Then the people in Russia will ask, why was the country subjected to such hardships? Sanctions, worsening living standards, loss of money… I understand that many people can say that Donbass was liberated, there are Russian people there. But this is not something for which the country bears huge image losses and losses. I think that only the liberation of the former Russian lands is equivalent to what Russia is losing.
  8. Ulysses Offline Ulysses
    Ulysses (Alexey) 16 August 2022 22: 01
    0
    The operation will stop where Ukraine will not remain in its current form as an anti-Russian project.Even if for this it will be necessary to go to its western borders.
    This is the reality, otherwise we will lose.
  9. Colonel Kudasov Offline Colonel Kudasov
    Colonel Kudasov (Boris) 16 August 2022 22: 05
    -3
    The author expresses concerns about the water supply of Donbass. Bargaining is possible here, say, in exchange for water, Ukraine's access to the Sea of ​​Azov. The results of the SVO are starting to worry. Time plays against Russia
    1. cooper Offline cooper
      cooper (Alexander) 17 August 2022 08: 47
      +6
      Yes, time is against Russia. And the pace and results to date, the so-called. NWO is frankly depressing. For six months (!) not to kick out the Ukronazis even from the Donbass.. Tough questions for the Russian leadership.
  10. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 16 August 2022 22: 15
    +6
    As Putin says, so be it. And the media and experts will later explain that this was the only way it was possible. And the excess - wipe it off.
  11. Alexey Lan Offline Alexey Lan
    Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 16 August 2022 22: 36
    +2
    Well, not only Donbass. Kherson, parts of the Zaporozhye and Kharkiv regions are unlikely to be given away. In addition, it should be taken into account that in the case of such a scenario, Russia is unlikely to spare Ukraine during shelling from its side. There may be answers like Israel - Arabs.
  12. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 (Victor) 16 August 2022 23: 05
    +10
    if there is no adequate response after today's terrorist attacks in the Crimea and the Kursk region, we can say that political impotents are sitting in the Kremlin
  13. Moray Boreas Offline Moray Boreas
    Moray Boreas (Morey Borey) 17 August 2022 02: 18
    -4
    Ahead of a nuclear war in full growth. Everything screams about it. And all these verbal squabbles from Krapishin and other smart people are just empty.
  14. Krilion Offline Krilion
    Krilion (Krilion) 17 August 2022 03: 34
    +7
    no matter how much one would like to, but there is no way to liberate all of Ukraine with the current approach .. for a simple reason - there is no personnel ... there, already on its last legs, count .. Putin decided to fight "half a bump" and this is the result. .
  15. Benjamin Offline Benjamin
    Benjamin (Benjamin) 17 August 2022 08: 12
    +4
    Putin stated the purpose of the Operation as *The operation is carried out under the slogan of demilitarization and denazification* or have you already changed your shoes?
  16. cooper Offline cooper
    cooper (Alexander) 17 August 2022 08: 41
    +5
    If Putin and the entire Russian leadership do not throw off their "white gloves" during the so-called. The NWO will not take on the Ukronazis (and their Western patrons) in an adult way at last .. Then yes, everything can end up as described in the article. With all the fatal consequences for Russia ..
  17. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 17 August 2022 09: 56
    0
    the rhetoric of the authorities and the federal media has noticeably changed, persistently calling the SVO a “special operation to liberate Donbass”.

    After Ukraine's attempt to destroy the Kursk nuclear power plant, this could already be a counter-terrorist operation against Ukraine.
  18. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 17 August 2022 10: 10
    +5
    The shelling of the ZNPP and the action, rather inaction, of Russia, shows that the plans of the Kremlin are unknown to the people. Sea options. But the fact that there are still many "friends of the West" in Putin's entourage says that Russia's interests are second.
    1. InanRom Offline InanRom
      InanRom (Ivan) 17 August 2022 14: 44
      +4
      what kind of plans are there ... they would rather "make peace" with "colleagues and partners", and wave to their villas, accounts and families in the west.
      In the meantime:

      in the Kursk region, a Kamaz of the Russian Armed Forces was blown up on an anti-tank mine. It happened near the border between the settlement. New Way and Volfino. One soldier died on the spot, two were wounded.

      and the greater the number of losses of the Ukronazis, voiced by the talking head of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the more surprisingly more often they "fly" in various forms across the territory of the Russian Federation? ..
      and while someone dies and flies somewhere, someone at a "peaceful pace" drives gas to the west with payment for transit to the Ukrainian regime:

      9.35 The volume of Russian gas transit through the territory of Ukraine remains at the level of the previous days and amounts to 42,2 million cubic meters on Wednesday - "GTS Operator of Ukraine".

      and unequivocally supporting the States, sanctions and terr. claims against Russia to the Japanese:

      7.30 Japan resumed oil imports from Russia in July, in June it was at zero level - statistics from the country's Ministry of Finance.

      The situation - a crow will not peck out a crow's eye, or - nothing personal, just business.
      And while Russian soldiers and officers are heroically fighting as part of a very limited contingent (even taking into account the allied ones), the tops are lowing, silent, bleating and playing muddy games. How this can end - we recall the Russian-Japanese and the First World War, where the rottenness and impotence of the tops, coupled with the "unhealthy" state of the country, nullified all the heroism and steadfastness of Russian soldiers ...
    2. guest Offline guest
      guest 17 August 2022 17: 40
      -3
      Quote: steel maker
      But the fact that there are still many "friends of the West" surrounded by Putin

      Can you name them, I'm really interested.
  19. kriten Offline kriten
    kriten (Vladimir) 17 August 2022 10: 16
    +5
    Such a question already indicates that not all people believe that the Kremlin will bring denazification to the end. Already here in the discussion there are a lot of calls to finish today. They don't care what happens tomorrow. They are ready to postpone the war for several years, so that Russians would then be destroyed by the millions.
  20. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
    Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 10: 31
    -5
    Thirdly, instead of denazification of Ukraine, its maximum nazification will take place.

    Author!
    The maximum nazification "out of Ukraine" ALREADY occurred exactly by February 2022.
    So there is no need to deliberately shuffle cause and effect.

    Moreover, the process of nazification "for Ukraine" is only a special case of the general nazification of the entire "enlightened" Europe.
    So far, with only one nuance - today there is no "sole figure" of the Fuhrer of the 21st century.
  21. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
    Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 10: 41
    -6
    Secondly, Kyiv will get a respite to retrain and re-equip its army to Western standards. Only London has promised to train 120 Ukrainian troops every 10000 days according to NATO methods, but the scale could increase if other NATO members join the process

    Author!

    Judging by what you said “to prepare a fighter in 120 days” - you did not serve in the army: neither in the Soviet nor in the Russian
    For 4 months of training, all you can learn is "shooting" from a machine gun at targets.
    Because there is no question at all about the competent development of equipment, especially artillery systems or tanks, for such a period.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 August 2022 11: 02
      +1
      Just for information.

      The structure of combat training. Combat training in the US Army includes the training of personnel in training centers or courses for recruits in military schools (schools) of the armed forces (services) and the training of personnel of subunits and units.
      Training centers are designed for single training of military personnel, as well as for operations as part of a squad, crew or calculation. Training in them is carried out in two stages: initial combat training and advanced single.
      First stage (eight weeks) is mandatory for all recruits, regardless of the nature of their future service, and is carried out according to the general curriculum.
      Military personnel who have successfully passed tests and have proven themselves are sent to take a course of advanced single training (in military registration specialty) in training centers, courses in military schools (schools) of branches, troops (services) or courses in units and subunits of regular army.

      Training (six to eight weeks) covers a complex of theoretical knowledge and practical skills necessary for further service. At the same time, tactical, fire, technical training and driving combat vehicles are considered the main issues for infantrymen and tankers. Over the past seven days, field exercises have been conducted as part of a squad (crew) in conditions as close as possible to combat. They end with the passing of tests and a daily tactical exercise with live firing. After that, the military personnel are sent and the troops.

      Total for a maximum of 16 weeks. That is 4 months or 120 days. The data is a little outdated, but it is unlikely that something has changed dramatically. According to modern data, the preparation of a high-level specialist requires 22 weeks. But this already includes special disciplines (including the study of foreign languages). This is for special operations.
      If only "cannon fodder" is required for Ukraine, then 120 days is quite enough.
      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
        Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 15: 07
        -4
        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

        In order to receive combat training, as you indicate according to the US manuals, for a period of 16 weeks, you must at least know the maximum language in which this training will be carried out.
        That is, "new" 10 "vna Ukrainians" every 000 days, all as one speak English "perfectly"?!
        Are you sure about that?
        1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
          k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 15: 29
          +1
          Quote: Krapilin
          it is necessary, at a minimum, to know to the maximum the language in which this training will be carried out

          Do you really think that recruiting instructors with knowledge of the Russian language is such an impossible task? A little out of the way, Yakov Kedmi (I hope you know who he is?) knows Russian (and equally English and Yiddish) as well as you and me. This I mean that bilingual instructors (they do not need to know Ukrainian at all) with solid military training are a dime a dozen in the West.
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 19: 42
            -2
            Dear k7k8 (vic)!

            I not only think, but I am absolutely sure that there is a deep delusion about the "a dime a dozen" Russian-speaking QUALITY instructors.
            So, a drying puddle, not a pond ...

            Kedmi!? So in Israel, the official language is Hebrew. And you partially know Yiddish, because it is such a variant of "German slang".
            Because, for example, "pots" from Yiddish is a male genital organ, and "kid", respectively, means that he is very small, this organ ...
            1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
              k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 20: 28
              +1
              Quote: Krapilin
              Hebrew

              Ichosthogo? Does it change anything?

              Quote: Krapilin
              "a dime a dozen" of Russian-speaking QUALITY instructors is a deep delusion

              First of all, you don't need a lot of them. At the rate of "one per platoon", with the promised 10000 trained per cycle, no more than 400-500 people are needed.
              Secondly, it is quite possible to train these instructors from the crests themselves. Or do you, without hesitation, think that only de.bi.ly serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
              Thirdly, the Russian-speaking diaspora, although smaller than the Chinese, is also quite good. And a lot of Russian-speaking mostly Americans and Germans have gone through a large number of conflicts involving NATO.
              You can find many more ways to recruit Russian-speaking instructors in NATO countries.
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 21: 25
                -2
                Dear k7k8 (vic)!

                "Cycle" for whom: infantrymen, artillerymen, mortarmen, etc. etc.?
                Do you get "high-class specialists" in 120 days? Then why military schools?
                What, will they fly into battle at the helm of an aircraft in 120 days?

                You have a good sense of black humor...
        2. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 August 2022 16: 40
          +2
          They don't need to learn English. There will be translators. From the same Canada.
          The question is different. It is quite possible to prepare "cannon fodder" in 120 days. You can even bring in experts. Depends on the intensity of training.
          Personal experience in civilian specialty. 35 days of intensive training on the ship, then 21 days on courses. And even with my poor English, I could already work independently on the most modern equipment. On my second flight for 35 days, I already left on my own.
          The military is definitely different. I could lose money due to a mistake. At the front, they risk their lives. As Clausewitz wrote, "Military affairs are quite simple and understandable. But it is difficult to fight."
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 19: 50
            -4
            Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

            You yourself confirmed Krapilin's idea: cannon fodder is not fighters.
            About the most modern equipment with poor English, on which you could work with 100% return - let me doubt it. Because the technical documentation attached to the equipment is not the level of conversation on the street or in a store.
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 August 2022 20: 09
              +1
              He worked and even taught foreigners. Talking and reading are two different things. I read fluently. Inwardly. In any case, I understand what is written in the instructions or in the article. It's not difficult at all.
              But the emphasis is hard to remove. Therefore, it was always difficult for me to negotiate on the radio.
              Again, there is always a way. I worked, and entrusted the negotiations to a partner from South Africa. Moreover, she was a girl
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 21: 30
                -3
                Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                Your experience is exclusively civilian.
                Direct tracing paper in the realities of combat cannot be here.
                1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 August 2022 22: 51
                  -1
                  The ending of the previous post was not reflected.
                  I wrote there that civilian and military experience are not the same thing. But if the question is only in working on technology, an analogy is possible. But I won't argue.

                  About the realities of the battle, I quoted Clausewitz. The problem is that there is no analogy in training in peacetime and real experience in combat.

                  For example, the best German bomber Hans Rudel, the only holder of the full bow of the Knight's Cross: with golden oak leaves, swords and diamonds. In terms of the number of awards, he was second only to Goering. Destroyed more than 2000 armored vehicles (maybe he lied a little). But when you read his biography, they wanted to expel him from the flight school. The instructors considered him completely unsuitable for combat operations.
                  1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                    Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 21: 58
                    0
                    Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                    Some German "fighter aces" also "beat down" according to "historical data" 300-400 or even more aircraft.
                    Moreover, the calculation of "shooting down statistics" began in Spain.
                    Yes, but the whole point is that in the Luftwaffe, not the enemy aircraft themselves were counted for victory, but ... the motors on them.
                    He shot down a low-speed four-engine bomber - it was considered as for 4 aircraft.
                    Or he shot a twin-engine transporter virtually without any fight - 2 aircraft.
                    Here, of course, there are "brilliant oaks" and "golden swords" and "other leaves" ...
                    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 19 August 2022 22: 50
                      -1
                      This I know. An example was given in order to indicate the discrepancy between the educational process and the real battle. No matter how victories are counted, the fact remains that the best German pilot was considered unfit for training. He was even transferred before the war to the reconnaissance squadron. Because the instructors considered the stoion unfit for combat work. A small detail, at the end of the war he actually flew without one leg. Severe injury.
                      By the way, one of the authors had an article "300 air victories as a path to defeat."
                      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 20 August 2022 16: 09
                        0
                        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                        Yes, everything you write is informative and interesting.
                        But as a digression into history.
                        It's about today and about the "horror" that the author of the article once again replicates.
            2. k7k8 Offline k7k8
              k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 20: 33
              +1
              Quote: Krapilin
              Because the technical documentation attached to the equipment is not the level of conversation on the street or in a store.

              You are absolutely right. Technical documentation is much easier to learn than spoken language.
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 21: 41
                -2
                Dear k7k8 (vic)!

                Why exaggerate? You yourself said that the price of your "civilian" mistake is money. The price of a mistake from a misunderstood when "managing" a weapon is life.
                And the fact that there will be a lot of misunderstood - there is no doubt about it.
                Because skill, not theory, must be brought to automatism. And this is by no means in 120 days from a "foreign language through an interpreter" on complex technology.
                Because it will not work to develop a skill from scratch according to the "24 hours a day, 120 days without sleep and rest" scheme.
    2. k7k8 Offline k7k8
      k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 11: 52
      +3
      Here you are fundamentally wrong. If the training of a soldier is carried out formally (as, often, in training) according to the methods of Tsar Peas, then half a year is not enough. But if training is conducted 25 hours a day (I didn’t make a reservation), then it’s quite possible to prepare in 120 days, if not Rambo, then at least a fully trained fighter (even an artilleryman or tankman - of course, not a gun or tank commander, but in other specialties completely). The amount of knowledge of the commander of a motorized rifle squad, shooter, machine gunner, grenade launcher is not so great. Moral-volitional qualities and the starting level of knowledge are more important here.
      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
        Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 15: 14
        -2
        Dear k7k8 (vic)!

        It is one thing to study with tests and fulfill the standards in greenhouse, in fact, conditions, and quite another thing is the reality "in the field" - with all the consequences and attendants.
        I had to face, the difference is like earth and sky.
        And in order to "not fly to heaven", but to stay on earth for the benefit of the business, adaptation is required.
        Because "just learning" is NOTHING without experience.
        Which you may not be able to buy...
        1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
          k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 15: 22
          0
          You are inattentive. Speaking of 25 hours a day, that's exactly what I meant. And where to conduct training, it does not matter. An appropriate training regimen can be arranged, even when the recruit is at home.
          1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
            Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 19: 56
            -1
            Dear k7k8 (vic)!

            Preparing a recruit "for war" at home!?
            I don't understand you...

            By the way, for example, NEVER a civilian pilot “after simulators” studied at a flight school becomes an aircraft commander, but undergoes adaptation “under supervision” in real flight conditions, for example, as a co-pilot.

            Now, would you board a plane if you were told that it would be controlled by ONE graduate of a flight school and this would be the first flight for him by real passengers on board?
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 August 2022 20: 15
              -1
              This reminded me of an old story. An experiment was carried out in the States. A long time ago, 20 years ago. On an air trainer. The winner was a 14-year-old boy. He took off and landed on an aircraft carrier in an F-14 Tomcat. On flight simulators almost from the cradle. Experienced pilots said that in real life it will crash on takeoff. Nervous tension plus overload.
              By the way, I personally never learned to fly on flight simulators. But I didn't want to. Tried it a couple of times and gave up.
              1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 21: 55
                -2
                Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                This is not about a single case, similar to a bike, but about training tens of thousands of "highly qualified fighters" from scratch in 120 days.
                I will not say about the simulators - it was not possible. But in order to equip a position for a gun "from wheels" on which I had a chance to serve, I had to first throw a lot of earth with a shovel. And then plus then also in the position by numbers in order to act quickly and competently - I had to "run" a lot.
                And so on ...
                Maybe everyone "in Ukraine" is now geeks and in 120 days "from scratch" will become "elite fighters"?
                I don't allow this...
                1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 17 August 2022 23: 07
                  -1
                  I did not speak about "highly qualified fighters". You can prepare the fighters. I am sure about that. But the real experience can only be obtained in combat. With a fire defeat, which is used by the Russian army (and this tradition has been laid down since the Great Patriotic War), no terminator will survive. And the level of his training does not matter.
                  You can teach the basics of combat, teach how to use weapons (tank, artillery, rocket launcher). Aviation is already more difficult. At one time, they argued here about the level of losses of the Red Army Air Force during the war. Now I don’t remember the exact numbers, but non-combat losses during the training process amounted to thousands of vehicles. By the way, almost the same picture was in the Luftwaffe.
                  1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                    Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 22: 13
                    0
                    Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                    In order to "not argue" about the non-combat losses of our and German cadets-pilots (vehicles) during the training period - wouldn't it be easier to turn to the archives?

                    For example, before getting into service, Lutwaffe cadets were trained for almost 2 years + almost 300 hours of "flight".
                    We have - before the war - even more than 2 years, but up to 100 flight hours.
                    What do these numbers say?
                    Yes, practically, about nothing - after a fight they don’t wave their fists.
                    Because our grandfathers won the Great Patriotic War, including at the controls of aircraft.
                    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 19 August 2022 22: 59
                      0
                      We are talking about different things. I'm talking about the fact that, unlike the ground forces, it takes more time to train a pilot. Here in 120 days you will not meet. And as an example, he cited non-combat losses of aircraft. Now I don’t remember the exact numbers, but it seems that in the USSR it was about 30% of all losses. In the Luftwaffe, it seems 25%. This suggests that it takes a lot of time and technology to train a pilot. Infantry trained easier. That's all I wanted to say.

                      I remembered one more detail. In the USSR during the war, it took 3 months to put together a rifle division from scratch. Manstein trained 22 td in a month. But he only has this for skolachining an already finished division. 22 TD in March 1942 proved to be a non-combat-ready unit. In May, she broke through the Crimean front, which led to disaster for the Red Army.
                      1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 20 August 2022 16: 27
                        0
                        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                        With all due respect to you, but Manstein DID NOT TRAIN divisions and corps, but commanded them.

                        And the defeat of the Crimean Front was carried out by the 42nd Army Corps from the 11th Army of the Wehrmacht, reinforced by several units from the 54th and 30th Corps involved near Sevastopol.

                        If you are interested in the details of the Crimean events, then they are very curious, for example, in a work of two articles called "The Straits, Stalin and the Black Sea Fleet" - you type in a search engine, for example, Yandex, and you get access to the articles.
                      2. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 20 August 2022 21: 11
                        -1
                        I read Manstein himself and plus articles about actions on the Crimean peninsula.
                        The breakthrough was carried out by 30 AK, reinforced by 22 td. 42 AK carried out restraining actions.

                      3. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 20 August 2022 22: 23
                        0
                        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                        In the complete defeat (Operation Bustard Hunting in German terminology) in May 1942 of the Soviet troops on the Kerch Peninsula, the ENTIRE 30th Corps of the 11th Wehrmacht Army "technically" COULD NOT PARTICIPATE, as it was deployed against the besieged city from Sapun Gora, while the 54th Corps - from the North side of Sevastopol.

                        We are talking only about PART of this body.

                        And the 42nd Corps was "smeared" all over the Crimea and in this sense was "fettering".
                      4. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 20 August 2022 22: 29
                        -1
                        Manstein "Lost Victories"

                        “This situation was the basis on which the German headquarters developed the plan for the operation“ Bustard Hunting ”. The idea was to inflict a decisive blow not on a directly protruding arc, where this blow itself suggested itself, and therefore was miscalculated by the enemy, but on the southern sector along the Black Sea.
                        This task was assigned to the 30th Army Corps under the command of General Fretter-Pico, consisting of the 28th Mountain Rifle, 132nd and 50th Infantry, as well as the 22nd Panzer Divisions. The 170th Infantry, which at first was supposed to remain in the central sector in order to mislead the enemy, was later also introduced into the breakthrough.

                        The corps had to break through the Soviet positions, having all three infantry divisions in the first echelon. His immediate task was to seize a bridgehead on the other side of the anti-tank ditch and thereby ensure the possibility of overcoming it by tanks.
                        Then he had to turn to the northeast and later to the north in order to hit the flank and rear of the main enemy forces occupying the defenses in the northern sector, and surround them in cooperation with the 42nd Army Corps and the Romanian divisions.

                        Beshanov "1942 training"

                        30 Army Corps with a sudden blow on a 5-kilometer section along the coast of the Feodosiya Gulf, it overcame an anti-tank ditch and, breaking through the positions of the 63rd Mountain Rifle Division, advanced to a depth of 7-8 km, reaching the Arma-Eli area. Behind the infantry, tanks began to advance. The troops landed from the sea also played their role. As already noted, the coast was not guarded, and the battalion found itself in the rear took the Russians by surprise. On the northern section to the active the 42nd army corps began holding down actions.

                        And there is a lot of research that the main breakthrough was carried out by the 30th AK.
                        All or not all, the composition of the strike force is indicated by Manstein.
                      5. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 20 August 2022 22: 35
                        -1
                        What Manstein left near Sevastopol he also wrote

                        The fortress of Sevastopol was still defended by the Primorsky Army, which in February consisted, according to our data, of 7 rifle divisions, 1 rifle brigade, 2 marine brigades and 1 cavalry division (dismounted). Against these forces we could leave during the planned offensive on the Kerch Peninsula only 54 ac, holding the northern and eastern sections in front of the fortress, as well as the newly arrived Romanian 19 pd. She was supposed to release the German 50th Infantry Division for the Kerch Front. In the southern sector near Sevastopol, only 72 frontier divisions remained.
                      6. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 22 August 2022 09: 43
                        0
                        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                        Here is the composition of the 30th Army Corps of the 11th Wehrmacht Army in the Crimea, which stormed Sevastopol from October 1941:

                        Army support units
                        430th Communications Corps Battalion
                        430th Supply Group.
                        Corps subordination units
                        1. 110th artillery commandant's office (ArKo 110):
                        29th artillery reconnaissance battalion
                        two divisions of the 2nd Heavy Artillery Regiment (210 mm howitzers and 150 mm guns)
                        154th Heavy Artillery Battalion (150mm howitzers)
                        battery of the 624th heavy artillery battalion (305 mm howitzers)
                        battery of the 767th heavy artillery battalion (150 mm guns)
                        battery of the 818th heavy artillery battalion (105 mm guns)
                        2 batteries of the 147th coastal artillery battalion (105 mm guns)
                        2nd Battery of the 772nd Coastal Artillery Battalion (150mm Koreiz and Yalta guns)
                        Battery of the 601st Naval Artillery Battalion
                        2. 249th battalion of assault guns (12 pcs.)
                        3. 610th anti-aircraft artillery battalion
                        4. 70th division of heavy mortars (150-mm mortars and 280/320-mm installations)
                        5. 690th sapper regiment, consisting of:
                        Shelf headquarters
                        70th engineer battalion
                        741th engineer battalion
                        902nd sapper company (assault boats)
                        176th mobile construction column
                        430th Communications Corps Battalion
                        430th Supply Corps Battalion
                        430th Corps Cartographic Battalion
                        430th Field Mail Company
                        430th gendarmerie company
                        6. Infantry units:
                        72nd Infantry Division, 105th Infantry Regiment, 124th Infantry Regiment, 266th Infantry Regiment, 172nd Artillery Regiment, 172nd Engineer Battalion,
                        170th Infantry Division, 391st Infantry Regiment, 399th Infantry Regiment, 240th Artillery Regiment, 240th Sapper Battalion,
                        28th Light Infantry Division: 49th Jaeger Regiment, 83rd Jaeger Regiment, 28th Artillery Regiment, 28th Sapper Battalion.
                        On the protection of the coast was the so-called. "Schroeder Battle Group".

                        This list does not include the 22nd Panzer Division, which "appears" near Kerch, "attached" to some units from the 30th Army Corps that participated in the operation.

                        Now compare this list with the list of those units that "from the 30th Corps" took part in the operation "Hunting for bustards."
                        For example, the 170th Infantry Division or the 28th Light Infantry Division participated in the operation, but heavy artillery from the corps remained near Sevastopol.
                      7. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 22 August 2022 10: 35
                        -1
                        You have carefully calculated the composition of the corps. Do you not take into account the opinion of the commander of the 11th Army? Again

                        The 30th Army Corps under the command of General Fretter-Pico, consisting of the 28th Mountain Rifle, 132nd and 50th Infantry, as well as the 22nd Panzer Divisions. The 170th Infantry, which at first was supposed to remain in the central sector in order to mislead the enemy, was later also introduced into the breakthrough.

                        The 22nd TD division was introduced into the breakthrough in the 30th AK sector. The task of the infantry was to create a bridgehead behind the anti-tank ditch, and on the second day in the 30AK lane, 22 TD was introduced into the breakthrough. It was she who turned north and cut off the main troops of the Crimean Front, pinning them in the Sea of ​​Azov.
                        Here is more information about the progress of the operation

                        On May 8, after artillery preparation, the offensive of the 30th Army Corps began. in the strip of the Soviet 44th Army. By the end of the day, the defense of the troops of the Crimean Front was broken through on the front 5 km and to a depth of 8 km. The landing of a boat landing from the sea, up to a battalion in number in the rear of the 63rd Georgian Mountain Rifle Division, also contributed to the success, which caused panic.

                        On May 9, the German 22nd Panzer Division launched an offensive, by May 10, she broke through into the depths of the defense of the Crimean Front and turned to the north, reaching the communications of the 47th and 51st armies.

                        I don't know how else to prove that the main breakthrough was made by 30AK. And 22 TD took the most direct part in this.

                      8. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 22 August 2022 12: 50
                        0
                        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                        And you don't have to prove anything.

                        Krapilin only indicated that NOT WHOLE 30 Corps, based on the composition of the units included in it from the above list, took part in the operation.
                        This is absolutely obvious.
                        Manstein's phrase is based only on the involvement of 3 infantry divisions from the corps in the operation and the tasks assigned to them - apparently, it was more convenient for him to formulate it that way.

                        By the way, the 50th Infantry Division, as well as the 132nd - from the quote you cited - were part of the 54th Corps.

                        The 170th Infantry Division from the 30th Corps was INTRODUCED into a breakthrough already made by other units.

                        We are not talking about the participation of the 22nd Panzer Division. We are talking about its appearance only near Kerch next to parts of the 30th Corps.

                        Speaking of memoirs and wording...
                        German historical and memoir sources operate on the 2nd assault on Sevastopol, and our historiography speaks of 3rd.
                      9. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 22 August 2022 13: 40
                        -1
                        I already said. I've run out of arguments. According to all memoirs and studies, according to all maps, it was 22 TDs that broke through the front, consisting of 30 AKs.
                        Divisions can be transferred and reassigned. The breakthrough was carried out precisely by 30AK as part of three infantry divisions plus one TD.
                        This question is closed for me personally.
                      10. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
                        Krapilin (Victor) 22 August 2022 14: 54
                        0
                        Dear Bakht (Bakhtiyar)!

                        Thanks for the conversation.
                        All the best...
  • k7k8 Offline k7k8
    k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 20: 43
    +1
    Quote: Krapilin
    Preparing a recruit "for war" at home!?
    I don't understand you...

    Firstly, it all depends on the competence and desire to work as a teacher.
    Secondly, when I said "at home" I meant that the trainee is not necessarily constantly in the barracks during his personal time. Believe me, it will be even more fun for the teacher to pull the student out of a warm bed in the cold at 2 a.m., arrange a forced march, give him 30 rounds of ammunition for 15 targets, and then go home in the same order after cleaning the weapon, and in the morning back to class to study the basics of mine-explosive cases or at the CSP to treat fire phobia.
    1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
      Krapilin (Victor) 17 August 2022 22: 00
      -2
      Dear k7k8 (vic)!

      Tell me, why then do the units undergo combat coordination "on the ground from the barracks"?

      What is simpler - they gathered, not knowing each other from the word at all, from apartments from simulators - and "defeated" all the enemies.
      Like in the movies...
      1. k7k8 Offline k7k8
        k7k8 (vic) 17 August 2022 23: 45
        +1
        Quote: Krapilin
        What is simpler - they gathered, not knowing each other from the word at all, from apartments from simulators - and "defeated" all the enemies.

        Did I write this somewhere? Do not try to surpass the writer Maxim Gorky. Although he, like you, read diagonally, but, unlike you, he understood what he read.
        1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
          Krapilin (Victor) 19 August 2022 22: 16
          0
          Dear k7k8 (vic)!

          And what about Gorky?

          "Prepare" (?) a fighter at home is the "bender" of Ilf and Petrov ...
          Or Bulgakov's "balls" ...
          Do you understand yourself?
  • gene1 Offline gene1
    gene1 (Gennady) 17 August 2022 12: 02
    -1
    We are at war with the West on three fronts: financial, economic and military. The deterioration of the economic and financial components will push the West to pump resources from Ukraine (in all the conquered countries, the capitalists did this). In Ukraine, confusion and vacillation begin. To keep the situation under control, the West will try to bring in peacekeepers. RF agrees. Even when voting in the UN Security Council, hands will not fall as ours will parachute a peacekeeper from Kyiv to Transnistria. All - demilitarization carried out. Then each region will vote: to remain part of Ukraine, Poland???, Hungary???, or Russia. Something like this.
    1. zenion Offline zenion
      zenion (zinovy) 17 August 2022 18: 23
      0
      gene1. This war is very reminiscent of the village and its way of life. The hen runs away from the rooster and thinks if I am running fast. The rooster runs after the chicken and thinks - I won’t catch up, I won’t do the job, so at least I’ll get warm. This is how the war goes. It looks like it was started to rip off the West and the USA a little. Then they will share. Otherwise, this war cannot be understood. You can compare a little with what happened after Hitler came to power and what happened after that. Now they have done the same with Ukraine. But still, it looks like those who do not have the strength to fight back, while others do something. Rooster and chicken.
  • vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 17 August 2022 14: 31
    +1
    The author voiced what he thinks, bad or good, let the commentators write. The cost of the whole Ukraine, assets, territory, population, resources, etc. from 65 to 80 trillion dollars. This is what NATO is fighting for, wants to increase its block by 65-80 trillion dollars, capitalism demands the expansion of markets, and here the Russian Federation is trying to take the Ukrainian market away from NATO. We will join Ukraine to the Russian Federation, we will get a benefit in the amount of 65-80 trillion dollars. Next come the polit. issues of RF-NATO relations. For NATO, money comes first, the well-being of the golden billion. And what is primary for us? Maybe the Kremlin does not need money, so it can stop at the border of the LDNR.
    1. Monster_Fat Offline Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat (What's the difference) 17 August 2022 15: 01
      +3
      Turbopatriots bit the bit - "we want to denazify the whole of Ukraine!" In fact, it would be nice to gather them all and send them to "denazify" this very "entire Ukraine". yes Look at the map: for the fifth month, the Russian army has actually been marking time in one place - most of the "liberated" territory was occupied in the first month, then trampling in one place began, and somewhere else, retreat. What "all Ukraine"? Here, before the "liberation" of at least one Donbas, as up to the mountain with cancer.
      1. zenion Offline zenion
        zenion (zinovy) 17 August 2022 15: 21
        0
        What is being trampled on is for business, there is no longer any need to dig trenches, they have already been trampled.
      2. Alexey Lan Offline Alexey Lan
        Alexey Lan (Alexey Lantukh) 17 August 2022 16: 23
        +1
        In Ukraine, they used to say: "... as far as Kyiv, crustaceans."
      3. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 20 August 2022 10: 58
        0
        What are your alternative suggestions? Specifically?
  • zenion Offline zenion
    zenion (zinovy) 17 August 2022 15: 20
    +1
    All this can end very quickly if someone is given an envelope containing a piece of paper with the inscription 20 billion for everything. And immediately everyone will become such friends, and Russia will become such a friend, up to the grave. In general, everything is like in the early 90s, and there will be no need to hide in the forest.
  • guest Offline guest
    guest 17 August 2022 17: 31
    +1
    Quote from Mikhail L.
    I propose to write my ... classical version on any topic.

    Not everyone is allowed to post here.
  • Artem000 Offline Artem000
    Artem000 (Artem) 17 August 2022 18: 57
    0
    We need a complete and unconditional surrender of the criminal Kyiv regime, but not of Ukraine as such. In any case, Ukraine must preserve statehood in one form or another (without Crimea and, possibly, Donbass within the administrative boundaries of Donetsk and Lugansk regions). Of course, this will no longer be the current ultranationalist Ukraine named after Poroshenko-Zelensky. It should be a new Ukraine - a demilitarized country, without right-wing extremist organizations, loyal to Russia (in the Eurasian Union), with two official languages. Objectively, now even in such cities as Kharkiv, Dnipro (Dnepropetrovsk), Zaporizhia, Kherson, Nikolaev, Odessa, at most 5% support separation from Ukraine (I myself am from the South-East of Ukraine, I know the approximate mood in the region). Many (after February 24, unfortunately, the majority of them) have generally turned into pan-headed Svidomites (they will need to be dezombized in some way), but even the rest - adequate residents just want a change of Russophobic power to a conditional Medvedchuk-Rabinovich. It is necessary to fight for the liquidation of the current regime, but not for the Ukrainian statehood as a whole. We did not begin to annex the territory of the GDR to the USSR, even despite all the monstrous crimes of the Nazis?!
    1. guest Offline guest
      guest 18 August 2022 00: 20
      +2
      What you propose can be done with western Ukraine, as part of Russia it will always be a problematic region, so it really is worth leaving some independent state or even several states there, but everything is under the control of Russia and there should not be any NATO and the EU and there should not be close.
  • viktor goblin Offline viktor goblin
    viktor goblin (viktor goblin) 17 August 2022 19: 08
    0
    Obosratsiya will be in this case.
  • Igor Pochkin Offline Igor Pochkin
    Igor Pochkin (Igor Pochkin) 17 August 2022 20: 36
    0
    I didn’t understand at all what kind of channel this “Dnepr-Donbass” is? There are enough rivers in the Donbas region: Kalka, Kalmius, Seversky Donets, etc.?
  • Mr Malek Offline Mr Malek
    Mr Malek (Hamada Alballat) 18 August 2022 01: 59
    0
    Yes, such a scenario is more realistic, but the worst is not excluded, as it is now seen.
  • Marciz Offline Marciz
    Marciz (Stas) 18 August 2022 15: 02
    0
    Well, what else to expect from the Kremlin after 91 years, after 2014, another veiled betrayal !!!??
    1. guest Offline guest
      guest 18 August 2022 15: 12
      +1
      In the 91st, there really were traitors in the Kremlin, but Putin is not Yeltsin, and so far there have been no betrayals from him. 2014 was just shortsightedness, then they also hoped that the problem would be solved by itself.
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 20 August 2022 10: 59
    +2
    Quote: guest
    2014 was just shortsightedness, and then they also hoped that the problem would be solved by itself.

    She decides herself - this is no longer short-sightedness. That's incompetence then.
  • ivan2022 Online ivan2022
    ivan2022 (ivan2022) 21 August 2022 21: 25
    0
    Quote: guest
    In the 91st, there really were traitors in the Kremlin, but Putin is not Yeltsin, and so far there have been no betrayals from him. 2014 was just shortsightedness, then they also hoped that the problem would be solved by itself.

    Heh.... heh..... What's the difference?
    Even if there were, what would change? Once again they would have been elected, like Yeltsin.

    In March 1996, the State Duma of the Russian Federation adopted a resolution according to which Yeltsin should be put on trial.
    And in the same year he was elected for the second time and there were no popular protests.

    As Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev once said:

    With such a people, nothing is impossible for us.

    eklmn ..... how right he was !!