On the fields of Ukraine, the triumph of Russian weapons over Western


I have long wanted to write this text. I promised readers, and it was interesting myself. But there was not enough initial data. More precisely, they were, but they were partial, fragmentary. But now, finally, more or less full arrived in time.


Concept victory


It so happened that on the fields of Ukraine we are now waging a war of the past, and not of the present century. Hence the use in the database on both sides of the military scrap sample of the 70-80s of the last century. Yes, and the Western allies of the 404th are in no hurry to supply her with the latest models of military equipment, still getting off with Soviet "iron" from the warehouses of the former ATS countries, and their "iron" of the 21st century model is supplied in piece copies, rather for testing, as it will prove itself in battles with a potential enemy. The only exception is unmanned aircraft, radar warfare equipment, as well as the use of the US satellite constellation for reconnaissance and target designation (when aiming ammunition at targets). Of the last three components of this war, we have succeeded only in electronic warfare (and we don’t even use it!).

Winston Churchill's famous phrase that generals always prepare only for the last war did not justify itself in our case, since our generals were not even ready for the last war. But I would not be in a hurry to blame them for this, because the conceptual strategic mistake was laid back in the 90s, when we were preparing for a confrontation with the United States, which could only be nuclear, and a big war in Europe, if considered, was only a war with NATO, and it inevitably had to develop into a nuclear one, and then why do we need conventional weapons? No one then could even imagine that in the 21st century we would have to get involved in a classic European war of the 20th century, especially with Ukraine as an adversary. Hence the reduction in the full-time personnel of the Armed Forces to 1 million people, and cuts in funding for officers, and the transition to a contract army, and many other reforms by Senior Lieutenant Serdyukov, who served as Minister of Defense during the time of President Medvedev. Who would have thought then that in 2022 in Ukraine we would really lack not even tanks and planes, but people, and Putin would urgently have to start forming a Volunteer Contract Army in order to plug holes at the front with it.

But, nevertheless, as a result, our concept of warfare won over the Western one. And the ongoing databases in Ukraine have clearly demonstrated this. The fact is that we and our opponents turned out to have a completely different approach to creating weapons (I will develop this thesis below) due to the fact that historically we had fundamentally different opponents. This situation has evolved over the centuries. After all, the main task of the armies of the West since the time of Tsar Peas was to defeat the defense of a small country, lagging behind them in technological and technical development, as efficiently and cheaply as possible. The first words here are key - the colonial war is a business plan, which included the final profit. Without profit, such wars were not started!

The main task of the Russian army since the time of Peter the Great has been the need to repel a large-scale invasion by Western countries that are superior to Russia in technical, industrial and human resources. Hence the key difference - from time immemorial, our weapons have been made for a total war of survival on our lands, based on a single principle - food, fuel and weapons, nothing more, but all our own. Western weapons were developed for a limited local commercial war in distant theaters of military operations - Somalia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria (there are a lot of examples, starting with Korea and Vietnam, I don’t even climb into earlier historical jungle). It just so happened historically that over the past 500 years, European armies have not had to fight for their survival, while everyone else has been doing just that (and we are no exception here!).

Hence the result of the confrontation between ours and European / US weapons in Ukraine, where the systems brilliantly developed, created by the best technologists and designers of the richest countries in the world, showed dubious results on a large-scale NMD front stretched for hundreds of kilometers and did not prove their effectiveness. Yes, they can hit targets in places very successfully and accurately, but they cannot categorically influence the course of the war, from the word “absolutely”.

The triumph of Soviet weapons


Below I turn to the proof of this thesis. Oddly enough, while there was a confrontation between Soviet weapons on both sides in the Ukrainian theater of operations, the Ukrainian side successfully held the blow, and we suffered very offensive losses, which, however, were associated with several other reasons, which we will not talk about here. To close this issue, I will only say that at the 1st stage of the NMD we did not fight with the Armed Forces of Ukraine, we forced them to peace, trying to resolve the issue with little bloodshed, but the non-brothers did not appreciate our generosity, and now they will only pay with corpses for such ingratitude ( More precisely, they are already paying, and they are paying in black!). When the Soviet weapons, and most importantly the ammunition for them, began to dry up among the non-brothers, they placed all their hopes on the supply of Western weapons. And then they were in for a big disappointment (by the way, not only them, but also the suppliers of these weapons too!).

The Western "menagerie of weapons" flowed into Ukraine, first in a small stream, and then in a powerful stream, which was a clumsy mixture of modern and outdated weapons, Western and Soviet. And then the suppliers of these weapons suddenly unexpectedly faced the fact that numerous heterogeneous systems require special training, special maintenance, as well as ammunition of various calibers, which are often mutually exclusive for each of these systems. All this requires a large-scale and complex logistics structure to ensure the supply and maintenance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in a combat-ready state - a structure that was absent in Ukraine at the time of deliveries and at the moment is pure improvisation. The situation for the main sponsor of these supplies, the United States, turned out to be even worse than in Afghanistan; in the case of non-brothers, they lose their understanding of where the weapons they supplied (and ammunition for them) are located immediately after they cross the Ukrainian border. Hence the appearance of the French self-propelled guns "Caesar" among the Russians, and the Javelin anti-tank systems among the Syrian barmaley. When an American “Stinger” shoots down the plane of the President of the United States on takeoff, this is only a matter of time (“Stingers” and “Javelins” are already quite actively traded wholesale and retail even on AliExpress).

By the way, a similar trend can be traced even in the supply of RPGs and anti-tank systems. Ukrainian units receive funds for the use of what was at hand, then they gave it. In the end, it turns out that within the same battalion there can be several types of anti-tank systems and RPGs - from RPG-7, Panzerfausts and Swedish Karl Gustavs to Javelins and NLAW. And each type has its own specification for storage and use, each type must be taught how to use a sufficient number of fighters, otherwise, as often happens, missiles simply lie in useless cargo and go to the RF Armed Forces and LDNR as trophies. We can only summarize that in terms of logistics, the Russian Federation has already won this war against the collective West, but let's get back to specific systems.

Each of the systems planned for delivery has its own range of “buses”, spare parts, maintenance and training protocols. Each system was developed to meet the tactical and technical requirements of the armies of their countries in a dangerous period and, accordingly, has specific features. An example is the lightweight (due to the use of titanium alloys) towed 155-mm M777 howitzer, which was created by the United States for a possible exit from the Vietnam War with maximum emphasis on air transportability. The Americans noted that the M777 was indeed effective in Iraq in 2004 and in Afghanistan, but subject to their placement at forward deployment bases (FOB, forward operating base) and outposts (COP, combat outposts). Those. the manufacturer initially planned to transport howitzers by CH-47 Chinook helicopters to the forward base, where there should already be stocks of equipment, spare parts, ammo, plus a guarded perimeter. Do you see the difference? Delivered and standing, and not dragged through half of the longest country in Europe by area with overwhelming air supremacy of Australia in the east of the Arctic Ocean, who we have here Australia and what the Arctic Ocean has to do with it, everyone probably already understood (this is me without the translation was given by the humor of the American side, it is they who evaluate the success of their weapons in the Ukrainian theater).

Strength breaks class!


I will return to the American "three axes", but for now I wanted to dwell on the pride of German weapons. You can write here without quotes, because the PzH 2000 (German: Panzerhaubitze 2000) self-propelled artillery mount on a caterpillar chassis with a rotating turret, developed by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann in 1998, has rightfully been considered the best in the world in its class until today. This self-propelled gun, which is in service with the Bundeswehr and a number of other countries as the main artillery system, combines increased security, a long firing range, operational-tactical flexibility and high mobility. It was originally designed based on these requirements - to ensure optimal protection of the crew, with the ability to “work” in combat conditions with its incomplete composition (i.e. all systems are automated to such an extent that it allows them to be served on the battlefield by a reduced calculation); possessing a significantly greater range and firing efficiency compared to the systems in service with a potential enemy, while maintaining high combat accuracy. All this German designers managed to implement. At the exit, the customer received a miracle machine.

An ordinary projectile fired from a PzH 2000 normally hits 30-36 km. When using special ammunition with improved ballistics, this figure can reach 40-47 km, and when firing an active-rocket projectile, even 54-67 km. A 67 km shot was fired in 2019 and remains a record for 155 mm / 55 caliber barrels. Only the Americans were able to beat him on a 155-mm caliber, but from a 58-caliber barrel (in 2020 they managed to hit 70 km). For comparison, our 152-mm divisional self-propelled howitzer 2S19 "Msta-S" hits 24 km with a conventional high-explosive fragmentation projectile, and 29,09 km with an active-reactive projectile. Also, the PzH 2000 is doing great and with a rate of fire, which is also close to the record - 3 shots in 9 seconds and 10 shots in the next 56 seconds (but this is with a heated barrel). In this case, although the projectile is fed and sent to the bolt automatically, the loader must manually send the charge. This rate of fire and range allows the PzH 2000 to very effectively perform an artillery technique called MRSI (Multiple round simultaneous impact), when one cannon fires a series of shots in such a way that all shells arrive at the same target at the same time. This effect is achieved due to the fact that each projectile is fired along different trajectories and at different speeds. The first should fly the longest, the last - faster. The practical result of such shooting is that one self-propelled gun literally produces a volley (for PzH 2000 - up to five shells). At the same time, such firing is very complex and requires a computerized fire control system. On the German gun mount, it even includes a radar that measures the speed of each projectile. All this allows the PzH 2000 to simultaneously fire quickly and accurately over long distances. Such a luxury will cost Ukraine 17 million euros per item.

But everything looks beautiful only on paper. The practice of application sometimes proves the opposite. So the use of the vaunted German self-propelled guns by the military of the Netherlands in Afghanistan revealed the following shortcomings: 1) Insufficient tightness of the machine, which caused problems as a result of dust getting into the mechanics of the self-propelled guns. Which could not but raise questions about the quality of the RCB protection of self-propelled guns when the enemy uses WMD; 2) Although the self-propelled guns were designed for off-road driving, even when driving on roads of insufficient quality, the chassis broke down (and in Ukraine this is generally a khan!); 3) Since the self-propelled guns were not initially equipped with a system for automatically ensuring the operating temperature of the barrel, special measures were required to maintain firing accuracy - such as storing the self-propelled guns under an awning to protect them from overheating in the sun (Lord, these people are going to fight with us! They even have guns they cannot shoot without cooling!). For accurate firing of self-propelled guns, it was necessary to warm up the barrel to operating temperature before firing (cold gun effect). To do this, the Dutch in Afghanistan used improvised "warmers" (warmers); 4) Reservation of the roof of the self-propelled guns turned out to be insufficient from the fire of light mortars and bullets, which required strengthening it with improvised additional armor.

The last drawback is due to very banal reasons. The hull and turret are made of steel armor. The frontal armor of the self-propelled guns can withstand bullets of up to 14.5 mm caliber, the rest of the armor can only withstand bullets from small arms and fragments of shells and mines with the same kinetic energy as the bullet. It is possible to install additional hinged armor, which is sometimes indicated in the sources as the possibility of installing dynamic armor, but in actual operation, ordinary steel blocks were installed in Afghanistan, because. the thickness of the armor was insufficient even to protect against mortar fire. The need to strengthen the armor of the ACS is due to the fact that the regular armor of the tower is relatively thin and is only 10-50 mm. Although this is the standard armor thickness for self-propelled guns developed in the 1980s, for example, the armor thickness of the Msta-S turret is about 15 mm, while the protection of the Coalition-SV self-propelled gun turret already reaches 200 mm of composite armor. The relatively low armor of the PzH 2000 is due to the main tactic of using it "shoot-and-scoot". In other words, the self-propelled guns are designed for a quick salvo of a very small number of shells with an instant change of position, where the quick movement of the self-propelled guns is the main means of its protection. For the same reason, self-propelled gun designers do not consider the problem of barrel overheating in long salvos as critical. practically for such volleys, self-propelled guns are not designed.

And here we smoothly move on to the problems that the vaunted German hardware has already encountered on Ukrainian soil. There, their advertised best self-propelled guns in the world are massively in need of repair, because they simply cannot withstand the rate of fire used by the Ukrainian warriors of light - the loading mechanism stupidly crumbles. In the Ukrainian theater, unexpectedly for non-brothers who put everything on Western miracle weapons, a figure of 100 shots / day, ridiculous according to Soviet standards, surfaced, for which the Germans once designed it! And for them it looked like a completely reasonable decision - no "natives", with whom they were going to fight, could not withstand even a couple of dozen volleys that came at the target. They will scatter, lose their combat effectiveness, retreat before the famous German weapons. And therefore - you just need to achieve the utmost accuracy and range of the volley, quick transmission of commands and victory in your pocket! And add to this also guided miracle shells in order to carry less across the ocean, and the enemy is defeated! But that was not the case in Ukraine.

Our Soviet self-propelled guns of the "flower" series (all these "Carnations", "Acacias", "Hyacinths", "Tulips" and "Peonies", not to mention the "Msta-S" and "Coalition-SV") were planned for numbers on order big. To a situation where the enemy is not the Papuans, but a powerful modern army, which puts thousands of targets on the front, and not a few groups of "partisans" who make nightmarish roadblocks. Our approach in artillery meant plowing up the entire front line of defense, as was the case in WWI and WWII. That is why our analogue of the German miracle weapon "Msta-S" is a little less accurate, a little less long-range. But there will be so much to beat the enemy until the shells run out. In the mud, in the dust, in the heat, in the cold, in the swamp or in the tropics. In any human and inhuman conditions - to send projectile after projectile at the enemy. What, in fact, is happening in Ukraine, where we are now multiplying the army of the Independent by zero.

And so with almost every sample of "humanitarian" aid 404th. The vaunted Javelins hit a tank well in an open field if the operator has thirty seconds to work out all the systems before launch. And they don’t help in any way against a combined-arms offensive - when a tank shows up for five seconds, fires a shot and rolls back into cover, and the battlefield is in smoke and burning in a hundred places. Branded “three axes” in the Ukrainian theater of operations demonstrated overheating of recoil dampers, rapid degradation of all connections from intense shooting against the background of the complete impossibility of their field repair - suddenly for the “banderlogs” it turned out that titanium alloys do not boil in air, as a result, the guns need to be sent for repair to Poland (and the road, you know, is not close, and not everyone returns from there, because the aircraft and missiles of the “orks” know their business). Somehow, all this reminds me of a joke about the new Russian, which he handed over his 600th Mercedes to the service station when the ashtray overflowed there. Loud HIMARS help to hit individual rear targets when our air defense does not have time to reload, but leveling fortifications and bridges with expensive guided missiles of 100 thousand dollars each is ruinous even for the hegemon (each volley is 600 thousand dollars!). And our good old "Grad" is already pouring full packages of 40 missiles into the conflict, plowing entire sectors for virtually nothing (and most importantly - with the same result!).

The whole concept of "precision weapons", as it turned out, works only "on top" of the usual one, but not "instead of"! On a front of a thousand kilometers, where we have tens of thousands of area targets in the form of field fortified areas, fuel and lubricant depots and RAVs, headquarters, command posts and temporary deployment points, our classical approach to solving problems of this type turned out to be the only possible and correct one, which introduced a strategic turning point to the outcome of this conflict. The recipe from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is simple - five kilotons per day along the entire front line. Every day and every night. And already on top of this terrible rain - Caliber, Daggers, Iskanders, Onyxes, Whirlwinds and everything else. We also have enough high-precision weapons, but the main focus is not in them, but in logistics - our own and the enemy's. Strength breaks the class!

Summary


Summing up what has been said, I would like to warn you against excessive and unacceptable euphoria in this case. The notion that here in Ukraine we are at war with the Papuans armed with bows and arrows is erroneous. We are confronted by perhaps the strongest army in Europe (in terms of numbers - that's for sure!), The line units of which are equipped according to NATO standards, trained and coached no worse, and sometimes even better than us. Here, on the fields of Ukraine, the latest tactics of network-centric warfare are being practiced, fortunately, regular NATO officers sit in the headquarters and command posts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who carry out operational control of the data transmission base from the low-orbit satellite constellation of the United States, which non-stop scanning the combat zone, to the grassroots level The Armed Forces of Ukraine, which receives online target designation with the exact coordinates of targets and their binding on the ground, hence the high accuracy of firing of their rocket and cannon artillery. Add to this also reconnaissance aircraft, both manned by NATO and unmanned aircraft, hovering over the territory of Independence for days, information from which also flows to the Unified Control Center, where it is instantly processed and transmitted to the field in order to realize the complexity of the moment and with whom we have to deal with here.

Here, in the Ukrainian theater of operations, the methods and tactics of waging a future war, which is just around the corner, are being tested. The fact that the West will not leave us alone is clear even to a child. He is intensively preparing for a new war, so we simply have no right to lose in Ukraine! But the West is not a fool at all, it also understands that it will not be able to win against us here, therefore, with the help of brainless and disenfranchised Ukrainians, whom the criminal Ukrainian regime drives to war like cannon fodder, it simply tries to increase the cost of this war for us by exhausting and bled our Armed Forces, and at the same time having worked out the latest combat tactics for us. But the fact that in the person of the Armed Forces of Ukraine we are confronted by a very worthy, intelligent, cruel, insidious and ideologically motivated enemy, trained over these 8 years to fight with us to the last Ukrainian, you already understood. How we let this happen and where we have been looking for all these 8 years is another question.

This is far from all that could be said on this topic, in particular, I did not say anything about the latest German mines that burn through our armor, and other "wanderwaffles" that our real opponents are testing on the Ukrainian theater of operations, preparing to confront us but we'll leave that for next time. On this I say goodbye to you and wish everyone only a speedy peace (we will buy the rest!). Your Mr X.
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  1. Vova Zhelyabov Offline Vova Zhelyabov
    Vova Zhelyabov (Vova Zhelyabov) 12 August 2022 19: 19
    -1
    Finally, the triumph of owning this weapon is also demonstrated.
  2. zuuukoo Offline zuuukoo
    zuuukoo (Sergei) 12 August 2022 19: 35
    +1
    In general, the main "problem" of Western armaments in Ukraine is too loud PR and, as a result, high expectations.

    The "Holy Javelin" is actually not an absolute weapon against a tank, but a means of last resort. Faust patron of the 21st century. And from this point of view, judging by everything, they generally proved to be quite good.

    Baikatar is nothing more than a good (perhaps even good) reconnaissance and strike UAV. Unfortunately, we don't even have that.
    And taking into account our superiority in the air and the saturation of air defense, they, in principle, did much more than one would expect from them. Perhaps even paid off (although not a fact).

    Anti-ship missiles actually pressed the Black Sea Fleet to the Crimean coast. So there is no doubt about their effectiveness.

    Hymers. Again, in combination with satellite guidance, they showed and continue to show themselves quite well.

    The 777 howitzer may not be the best thing in the world, but it shoots. By the way, a rather important element of them - the guidance module for zhps was not supplied. And 777 without it is like an SVD without an optical sight.

    This does not mean that "their" weapons are better than ours. Or vice versa. Some things are better, some things are worse.
    But the "triumph" of Russian weapons over Western ones is too loud a statement.
    1. Vova Zhelyabov Offline Vova Zhelyabov
      Vova Zhelyabov (Vova Zhelyabov) 12 August 2022 19: 39
      +4
      Western weapons are alien to the graduate generals of the Soviet academies.
    2. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 19: 50
      +1
      weapons are tested exclusively in combat! the result is on the scoreboard! and as for the wonderful anti-ship missiles Harpoon, so you haven’t seen our Onyxes in action yet! I’m already silent about Zircons and Daggers
      1. Victorio Offline Victorio
        Victorio (Victorio) 12 August 2022 21: 04
        +8
        Quote: Volkonsky
        weapons are tested exclusively in combat! the result is on the scoreboard! what about the wonderful anti-ship missiles Harpoon, so you haven’t seen our Onyxes in action yet! I’m already silent about Zircons and Daggers

        it’s a harpoon or not a harpoon, maybe they slept the weight, but the result is a cruiser at the bottom. recently Khodakovsky (of course, the military himself can judge his objectivity, but he is a direct participant) Solovyov in the program pointed out serious problems in communication and interaction, leading to unjustified losses.
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 21: 29
          +4
          it was not Harpoon, but two Harpoons to the port side just above the waterline, RK Moscow was not ready to repel the attack, because the main radar, judging by the Turkish photo, was at the time of the attack in a marching, not a combat position, but this is still not a reason for the loss of the ship, because it did not lose navigation after that - it could have been saved, but the crew, and this was the fault of the commander of the ship, Kaperang Kuprin, violated the "Instructions for the actions of the crew to combat the ship's survivability" - two portholes on the port side were not battened down ( as evidenced by the black smoke coming out of them, all in the same Turkish photo), with which he scooped up water during transportation to the base, and the partial flooding of the right compartments was also not used to align the vessel, which was sailing with a left trim. Typical Russian rasp*dyaystvo and negligence, where without them! The recent fire in Saki and the detonation of aerial bombs from the same series, the fire at the Saratov BDK too - the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Admiral Osipov, was already removed from his post yesterday by order of the GDP, they would have been removed earlier - maybe there was no fire in Saki! more precisely, it would have been, but it would have been extinguished even before the fire reached the warehouses with bombs
          1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 12 August 2022 22: 17
            +11
            but it would have been extinguished before the fire reached the bomb stores

            In the warehouse, aerial bombs and other ammunition lie without fuses, and in order to undermine, extreme temperatures are needed, therefore, from the fire of boxes or other wooden containers, bombs do not EXPLODE in littered cells (powder charges can). There is no way to do without the initiation of undermining. DIVERSION, and not otherwise ...
            1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
              Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 16: 42
              0
              In the warehouse, aerial bombs and other ammunition lie without fuses, and in order to undermine, extreme temperatures are needed, therefore, from the fire of boxes or other wooden containers, bombs do not EXPLODE in littered cells (powder charges can). There is no way to do without the initiation of undermining. DIVERSION, and not otherwise ...

              yes, Vladimir, it looks like a sabotage, which is even worse - it’s not for nothing that Zelya hid in the bunker the next day
            2. Alex R_2 Offline Alex R_2
              Alex R_2 (Alex R) 14 August 2022 00: 57
              0
              Should be without a fuse, but it happens with them, ... enough
          2. Victorio Offline Victorio
            Victorio (Victorio) 13 August 2022 10: 13
            -1
            thanks for the info, I don't have information on the tragedy with the cruiser. but I doubt that the ship could have been brought / towed, given the external damage (from the video available). open portholes, I think, do not make the weather here if bulkheads are damaged / demolished inside. about the situation on tsf, do you yourself have something to do with this structure? Or are you getting information from someone else?
            1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
              Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 11: 35
              -1
              I analyze the facts, infa from cap three Max Klimov (his main version of the loss of the ship) and Yuri Podolyaki (he confirmed the hit of missiles on the port side), then you are not special - you can immediately see that no internal bulkheads affect the survivability of the ship if compartments with holes were battened down, it was quite possible to tow the ship to the base even with a left trim in calm seas, the ship sank in calm due to open portholes (sea roughness, judging by the photo 1-2 balls), but even the portholes could not play their fatal role if the left trim were eliminated by sinking the right compartments. And why the flagship was in the zone of destruction of the Harpoons with the main radar covered - these are already questions for the commander of the ship
              1. Victorio Offline Victorio
                Victorio (Victorio) 13 August 2022 16: 41
                +1
                Quote: Volkonsky
                I analyze facts, infa from cap three Max Klimov (his main version of the loss of the ship) and Yuri Podolyaki (he confirmed the hit of missiles on the port side), then you are not special - you can immediately see no internal bulkheads affect the survivability of the ship, if compartments with holes are battened down, it was quite possible to tow the ship to the base even with a left trim in calm seas, the ship sank in calm due to open windows (sea roughness, judging by the photo 1-2 balls), but even windows РјРѕРіР »Ryo not play its fatal role if the left trim were eliminated by sinking the right compartments. And why the flagship was in the zone of destruction of the Harpoons with the main radar covered - these are already questions for the commander of the ship

                ? bold statement. compartments are formed by bulkheads. I am not a shipbuilding department, but I graduated from a naval university. I wasn’t on the cruiser before and after the missiles / comets / explosion fire, like you, together with the characters you listed, I can’t judge what and how, that’s why I asked who and what you draw from.
                and the version with open portholes, excuse me, is too banal.
                1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
                  Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 17: 29
                  0
                  internal bulkheads are important in a submarine, where, when it is in a submerged position, it is the key to its survivability in the event of a seal failure. On a surface ship, this matters only in the event of a hole below the waterline; on the Moscow RK, the holes were above the waterline, so the open portholes from the port side played their sad role when towing to the base with the left trim. There is no need to look for a hidden meaning, where there is none, all tragedies in 99 cases out of 100 are connected precisely with the human factor. The simplest reason lying on the surface, in 99 cases out of 100, is decisive.
                  1. Victorio Offline Victorio
                    Victorio (Victorio) 15 August 2022 09: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Volkonsky
                    internal bulkheads matter in a submarine,

                    longitudinal and transverse on any vessel and ship are important not only in technological / commercial / military terms, but also in safety, and therefore in unsinkability / survivability. in your previous comment, you wrote that as a result of a roll, outboard water began to enter the ship, which in itself is not so scary given the safety and tightness of the bulkheads in the compartments where water enters. to equalize the roll, water is flooded / taken into the compartment (opposite side or other, in accordance with the available instructions), which allows you to get rid of the trim, longitudinal or transverse. this did not happen, which means that the integrity / tightness of the bulkheads was violated, the water was not localized in one space, or there was some other reason / reasons. These are questions for direct participants.
                    and all sorts of plums, analyzes, versions have a place to be. I don't think you should pretend to be the ultimate truth. sooner or later we'll all find out.

                    Quote: Volkonsky
                    all tragedies in 99 cases out of 100 are connected precisely with the human factor.

                    from the same series. do you have statistics of all tragedies, at least in the navy, in order to make the same statements?
  3. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
    Michael L. 12 August 2022 19: 43
    +4
    "In short, Sklifosovsky!": victory is not achieved by positional warfare!
    There are no reasons for "Urya!": The enterprise dragged on.
    When will the shelling of the same Donetsk, destruction of bridges, warehouses, command posts, etc., finally stop?
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 19: 59
      -2
      look at the map, Generalissimo, the Red Army liberated Ukraine for 3 years - until 1944, and the RF Armed Forces did not seize territory, but grind the enemy’s manpower in a limited local theater of operations, they had already ground 100 thousand in 5 months (I’m calling Toko corpses!), For me so pretty good!
      1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
        Michael L. 12 August 2022 20: 23
        +3
        The triumph of Russian weapons over Western

        - air defense failures, shelling of cities, the death of "Moscow", generals, withdrawal from near Kyiv and from Zmeiny Island, etc. - "grinding manpower"?
        Isn't it too one-sided?
        "The Generalissimo looks at the map":
        The Red Army liberated Ukraine for three years. And where is the liberation of today's Ukraine?
      2. Corsair Offline Corsair
        Corsair (DNR) 12 August 2022 20: 23
        +5
        Quote: Volkonsky
        already grinded 100 thousand in 5 months (I call Toko corpses!), for me it’s quite good!

        But it’s bad ... It’s bad in the sense that they “grind and grind”, but things are now there ...

        I’ll write to you in a personal, I don’t want to put some painful questions related to the NWO on public display.
        1. Michael L. Offline Michael L.
          Michael L. 12 August 2022 21: 33
          +4
          Write to him in a personal message that the Red Army liberated Ukraine not for 3, but for 2 years: 1943-1944.
      3. aslanxnumx Offline aslanxnumx
        aslanxnumx (Aslan) 12 August 2022 20: 28
        +3
        The Red Army, on the offensive in 1941 near Moscow, threw the enemy at 150 km. In the summer of 1943 they liberated Dnepropetrovsk, from January to September 1943 they liberated from Elkhotov to Novorossiysk.
        1. Dart2027 Online Dart2027
          Dart2027 12 August 2022 23: 06
          0
          Quote: aslan642
          The Red Army on the offensive in 1941 near Moscow threw the enemy at 150 km

          And at what cost?
      4. Victorio Offline Victorio
        Victorio (Victorio) 12 August 2022 21: 06
        0
        Quote: Volkonsky
        100 thousand

        the figure of the dead under 200 thousand came across
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 21: 35
          0
          no, these are cumulative losses, the so-called irreplaceable, along with the 300s, I have current data on 06.06.2022/50/200 from the Americans - 150 thousand 300s and 67 thousand 68s, there are still missing and loss of location data , together with 6-2 thousand of them killed. All data on the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of June 1,5, for the next XNUMX months, the loss figure can be multiplied by XNUMX
          1. the Saint Offline the Saint
            the Saint (Santa Claus) 14 August 2022 17: 24
            0
            According to the Americans and the British, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in people are great, but still less than those of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. And the loss of equipment is generally much less. I do not trust either the Ukrainian Defense Ministry or Konashenkov, and I trust the Dutch project Oryx more, which shows similar results for destroyed equipment.
    2. zenion Offline zenion
      zenion (zinovy) 17 August 2022 15: 24
      0
      So people get money for this, of course, they share it with everyone involved.
  4. Valera75 Offline Valera75
    Valera75 (Valery) 12 August 2022 20: 12
    +8
    I agree with the author in some ways, but I would argue with something. If Bandera had more 777, Hamers and other Western weapons, they would have done us a lot of trouble in these 6 months. thousands.
    1. Corsair Offline Corsair
      Corsair (DNR) 12 August 2022 20: 39
      +7
      Quote: Valera75
      If Bandera had more 777, hamers and other Western weapons, they would have done us a lot of trouble in these 6 months.

      Yes, they drank enough blood with this amount of chimeras for both the air defense officers and the allied forces in general.
      They began to hit more and more often.
      Only warehouses, oil depots and troop dispositions have recently been covered, if not dofiga, then definitely more than we would like.
    2. the Saint Offline the Saint
      the Saint (Santa Claus) 14 August 2022 17: 29
      0
      Everything interesting is ahead when the railway Bandera and Nazi-fascists will have hundreds and thousands of heavy weapons. And also American aviation (F-15 and F-16) - pilots are already being trained.
    3. zenion Offline zenion
      zenion (zinovy) 17 August 2022 15: 31
      0
      Valera75. You don't need any hammers. Ukraine is fighting because of greed. That's how they bought Russia in the 90s, you can buy it again, spare no money, it will be cheaper. In addition, Ukraine missed the allies. If only there were a couple more allies in the east. It would be possible for some money to buy Russia all the way to the Urals, as Alaska once was. Everything in Russia is sold for money.
  5. monarchist Offline monarchist
    monarchist (Foma) 12 August 2022 20: 12
    -2
    awtor greszit nizkopoklonstwom pered zapadom i defetizmom poteme bojesposobnosti WSU
  6. aslanxnumx Offline aslanxnumx
    aslanxnumx (Aslan) 12 August 2022 20: 20
    +3
    A question to the author, 8 multiple launch rocket launchers made a rustle. The bridge is almost disabled. And here from Donetsk to Sparta is 16 km and where are our multiple launch rocket systems, about Avdeevka and I don’t ask for more distance there. Rather, the triumph of the cheers of the patriots, not the comfortable questions of the couch, in your opinion, the strategists. And the triumphant silence of the Moscow Region.
    1. Corsair Offline Corsair
      Corsair (DNR) 12 August 2022 23: 12
      +1
      Quote: aslan642
      Question to the author, 8 volley fire installations made a rustle. The bridge was almost disabled. And here from Donetsk to Sparta 16 km

      Yes, what "16 km"? From Spartak to Putilovsky bridge (the borders of the Kyiv region of Donetsk), only 5 km in a straight line. And from Spartak, also to Avdiivka and to Experienced - within easy reach.
  7. Demonlivi Offline Demonlivi
    Demonlivi (Dima) 12 August 2022 20: 37
    +7
    Donbass is not yet liberated, Donetsk is being bombed! There are no drones! What is the triumph???
    1. the Saint Offline the Saint
      the Saint (Santa Claus) 14 August 2022 17: 32
      0
      It is forbidden to write the opposite, and the author will not be paid for an article about the triumph of HIMARS, the new "god of war".
  8. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 12 August 2022 20: 45
    +1
    To understand everything, including weapons, you need to understand what is happening in Ukraine and what goals are pursued by different parties, and there are not two, but four, if not more. On the one hand, of course, the ruling regime in Ukraine, the second and main, is the United States and the parasitic England and its interests stuck, the third European countries - Germany, Italy, France, etc., and Turkey apart ... On the other hand, Russia is the main one, it is supported the enemies of the United States - Iran, the Saudis, oddly enough, are more on the side of the Russian Federation, silently the PRC and other DPRK, Alzhyrs .. There are quite a few parties, each with their own plans. The overlap of interests and the expectation of layouts for tomorrow, therefore, weapons for IEDs are shipped in doses so that they do not win, but fight to the last Ukrainian and shed more Russian blood. Now we can talk about weapons, the author correctly noted, new weapons are like medicine, in small doses for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but that it is effective, especially in conjunction with the NATO reconnaissance and adjustment system, is beyond doubt. There is no need to be dismissive, if it all works and to the fullest, no Soviet weapon will save, the difference in generations - accuracy, maneuverability, etc., is incomparable. SVO in Ukraine is only a specific special case and it cannot be accepted as a general definition, but extrapolation and conclusions for the RF Ministry of Defense can and should be made, which is probably already happening ...
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 21: 47
      -2
      I don’t agree - the outcome of the battle for Ukraine is decided not in the air and not at sea, but on the ground, and here the God of War - Arta comes first, and everything is decided by the density of fire, 60 thousand shells do their job every day - strength breaks the class!
      1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 12 August 2022 21: 56
        0
        Replica. Ukraine, a specific case with the use of mainly weapons from the USSR. Here the alignment is stupid, more artillery and shells, he won, which was correctly identified in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. In a collision with the West, with massive high-precision weapons (MLRS, artillery, aviation, missile weapons), one shell, one defeat, all artillery from the USSR will be knocked out in a matter of days, and then it is clear that ......
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 22: 34
          -2
          Vladimir, as I already wrote - we also have high-precision weapons with a CVO of 3 meters, I even carried out a comparative description of the M142 Hymars with our Tornado-S MLRS, ours is better both in caliber 300 mm versus 227 mm, and in barrels 12 versus 6, and in terms of combat range - 120 km versus 80 km

          https://topcor.ru/26091-pochemu-nam-ne-stoit-bojatsja-postavok-na-ukrainu-amerikanskih-rszo-himars.html
          https://topcor.ru/26255-pochemu-rossija-ne-sravnjaet-s-zemlej-avdeevskij-ukreprajon-vsu.html

          The second text on the Iskanders - there finally can be a khan for everyone! But the whole point is that here in Ukraine we are fighting in the old-fashioned way - we flood with fire, and in terms of the density of fire, and in terms of the number of fire casualties per day, no West can compete with us - and technically their barrels cannot withstand such a rate of fire, and logistically they can’t do anything with us, they can’t provide BC in the right amount, stupidly - a very long shoulder. That is why the case of the swine-fascists is rubbish and they know it, and that is why they are furious - shelling Donetsk and nearby cities with petals, shelling the Zaporizhzhya NPP, all this is agony, we are breaking and the enemy is fleeing.

          Minus is not mine!
          1. guest Offline guest
            guest 13 August 2022 15: 00
            +3
            Of course, you described a good picture, but unfortunately it does not correspond at least partially to reality. There has been no advance at the front for a long time, and they have not even tried to complicate the delivery of weapons and ammunition to the enemy for a long time.
      2. Corsair Offline Corsair
        Corsair (DNR) 13 August 2022 13: 35
        0
        Quote: Volkonsky
        I do not agree - the outcome of the battle for Ukraine is not decided in the air or at sea

        It seems Erwin Rommel said (I can’t vouch for the 100th accuracy of the quote, but I will convey the general meaning) - He who does not own air will fight on earth like a native against a white colonizer ...
        1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
          Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 14: 43
          -1
          point is still placed on the ground! see Syria
    2. aslanxnumx Offline aslanxnumx
      aslanxnumx (Aslan) 13 August 2022 08: 46
      +2
      Africans support us not because we are so good. Because we swell a bunch of loans, and then we will forgive them. Rosatom builds, gives loans, builds itself and, as it were, pays itself. After 20 years, Turkey will return the loan.
      1. the Saint Offline the Saint
        the Saint (Santa Claus) 14 August 2022 17: 40
        0
        Is this where the blacks support us? The Hungarians, yes, sometimes play in favor of Putin for a free loan of 10 billion euros from 2014, for which they did not pay a single euro cent.
  9. Spasatel Offline Spasatel
    Spasatel 12 August 2022 22: 52
    +2
    A person with the letter X cannot calm down. Everyone is doing everything right with him, especially Putin with Chubais and oligarch friends, and our army will defeat all these banderlogs once or twice with our own miracle weapon, still Soviet-made.
    Thank you, passed already in 1941.
    I could limit myself to one resume ...
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 12 August 2022 23: 06
      -6
      chela with a foreign nickname - you lost your war in 41st, don’t go where you don’t understand anything, another month or two of such a war with such losses for banderlogs and the war will end, not only the BC will end, but the banderlogs themselves, read the recipe from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation - 5 kilotons per day along the entire front line, and so every day until complete recovery
  10. NikolayN Offline NikolayN
    NikolayN (Nikolai) 12 August 2022 23: 54
    +2
    It is not entirely clear how the war should end. We destroyed everything and will enter Kyiv? And what will happen next? Option 2: completely liberate the DPR and LPR, leave behind Kherson and most of Zaporozhye and drag out the war for another people, another, until the economy of Ukraine and, to a large extent, the West dries up. Ukrainians can endure, live on pasture without wages. All that remains is the strangulation of the states and some kind of honorable peace.
    Well, the war with Europe, on which TVD? Again in Ukraine?
    1. Sidor Bodrov Offline Sidor Bodrov
      Sidor Bodrov 13 August 2022 12: 46
      +2
      We found the switchman - Osipov. And where does "Moscow" have a means of defense? It was possible to hastily place on the deck 5 - 6 shells removed from the wheeled chassis ... This command of the Navy should be removed, and the minister was slapped for bungling. And for Novofedorovskoye, counterintelligence was "unsuccessful" and the guards missed it.
  11. alexey alexeyev_2 (Alexey Alekseev) 13 August 2022 01: 15
    +6
    Yes, there is no advantage. to beat with a fist, they beat with five fingers. Where these 5 kilotons of shells fly, the devil knows.
  12. shinobi Offline shinobi
    shinobi (Yuri) 13 August 2022 02: 31
    0
    In general, everything is true, but the fact that NATO training is better is a very controversial statement. Practice has shown that, under equal conditions, their soldiers drain almost 100% of our soldiers. I'm not talking about "special equipment" and others like them, specifically about soldiers. always fights and the last point in the war is put by the infantry. The thesis that Western weapons are not intended for high-intensity battles has long been known. Actually, within the framework of their military doctrine, it is quite rational. The surprise for them is that this doctrine does not work in a conflict with Russia. Why, this already another topic.
  13. Squid X Offline Squid X
    Squid X (Serg X) 13 August 2022 04: 37
    +5
    another capricious article.
    in fact, the whole "triumph" is possible thanks to the stocks of Soviet weapons, designed for the 3rd World War. despite any losses, it is still there and is. what was created over 15 years of state programs of weapons for the most part melted away in the first month of the war (at least in terms of armored vehicles)
    the Ukrainian army resists very successfully, despite the fact that the West provides modern weapons in homeopathic doses. but even these doses change the course of the war and become a headache for the growing army - as was the case with a dozen Hymars. what will happen with attack drones and aircraft.
    and, of course, Western weapons are not designed for "wars with the Papuans" - they were created and conceived during the Cold War for a qualitative confrontation with a more numerous enemy - the police department armies. and the level of what was created by the West in the 21st century for the Russian military-industrial complex is unattainable.
    1. aslanxnumx Offline aslanxnumx
      aslanxnumx (Aslan) 13 August 2022 08: 50
      +3
      Oh, if it weren’t for these goloshes from the times of the USSR, Russia triumphantly defeated the whole of Europe.
    2. Monster_Fat Offline Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat (What's the difference) 13 August 2022 16: 42
      0
      Triumph, you mean? From, it's like Mikhalych ... "Triumph" ... I absolutely agree, moreover, the author forgot to mention the "genius" of modern Russian "generals" and the Russian General Staff, which has no analogues in the world in terms of intellectual saturation. Look how brilliantly they grind the enemy's forces! And completely so, sometimes due to negligence and negligence, the plane will crash or the ship will sink itself, but these are trifles, and there are no combat losses. "Geniuses of military talent! How cleverly, with a throw from Kyiv, they lured the enemy into a trap, where they grind him with a barrage of fire! And without their losses, which is the main thing! That's how you have to fight! Khan of Ukraine, and the whole NATE with the Americans! With such weapons and commanders Russian: the army, navy and air force will grind them all! yes
      1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
        Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 17: 42
        +1
        why, uncle, did I write somewhere that we have no losses? and on the retreat from Kyiv, Sumy and Chernigov, I also spoke out, and you read this -
        https://topcor.ru/26231-svo-115-dnej-spustja-razbor-pervonachalnyh-itogov-operacii.html.
        So, stop fooling around and acting like a fool, if there is nothing to object to on the topic - the way out is there! Don't slam the door, anika warrior.
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  14. radvas Offline radvas
    radvas (Igor) 13 August 2022 06: 23
    +9
    What to say. It is clear that our top politicians and military leaders made grave mistakes from the beginning. No one in Ukraine with towels was waiting for us! They thought that a cavalry charge would also do. And it turned out to be the hardest war between Russians and Russians, it couldn’t be worse! I think it is for a long time and with an incomprehensible result.
  15. syndicalist Offline syndicalist
    syndicalist (Dimon) 13 August 2022 06: 36
    +7
    What a strange triumph. Which is almost not accompanied by the movement of the front line towards the enemy, and in some places it forces them to leave their positions altogether. It is clear that one can salute and rejoice at the loss of only one flagship and several large landing craft, and not the entire Black Sea Fleet, and triumph at the successful purchase of Iranian drones, but a triumph? Isn't it too strong?
  16. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 13 August 2022 08: 38
    +3
    Since combat losses are still not known exactly, it’s strange to compare, given that before the year 14 Ukraine did not have a combat-ready army at all (that is, continuity and the school were torn), relying on security guarantees from Russia, Anglov and USA
  17. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 (Victor) 13 August 2022 08: 54
    0
    It can be seen that the author lives in his own virtual world, what is written is complete nonsense, his epics and predictions before the war immediately come to mind, the same bullshit
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 11: 49
      -1
      blah blah blah ... take a pen and highlight a paragraph that you think is complete nonsense, and then we'll talk. All the source data is from our sworn friends, I didn’t even translate in places, they, unlike you smart guy, see their miscalculations and respect the power of Russian weapons
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            1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
              Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 12: 53
              -1
              I’m already at the age when I can speak to everyone in YOU, I have nothing to do with great Ukrainians, I swore allegiance only once and only to the USSR, I also fought only for it, I know from the inside what war is, I didn’t think in my old age to survive another one. The text is purely technical, if there is something to object, you can always point it out, then there is a dialogue, an exchange of views. And the assertions that everything is complete nonsense is not constructive, if everything is nonsense, then there is definitely something to present specifically. And it's all blah blah blah.
              1. rotkiv04 Offline rotkiv04
                rotkiv04 (Victor) 13 August 2022 13: 07
                0
                Sorry, I was harsh, I shake my hand
                1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
                  Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 13: 37
                  0


                  Here, Victor, the confirmation of my words has arrived, again already from German sources, and so with every van der waffle of ukrov, Western iron loses to ours, still Soviet, which I wrote about. They have nothing against Kostya Saprykin! The effectiveness of iron is always confirmed only by the practice of its use. And there are complaints about our hardware, we find them and eliminate them where we can (there was a complete crap with the UAV, and there are complaints about the electronic warfare!). But it is not iron that wins, but people. And here, in terms of brainwashing, we are losing to the West. While we're losing. Because time and do not agree. And people need the truth, no need to take them for idiots.
  18. zuuukoo Offline zuuukoo
    zuuukoo (Sergei) 13 August 2022 10: 06
    +2
    Quote from Squid X
    was conceived during the Cold War for a qualitative confrontation with a more numerous enemy - the armies of the police department.

    Another myth from the category "Russians throw meat."
    The ATS countries were inferior to the NATO countries in terms of both equipment and manpower.
    The mobilization potential was generally incomparable (a monstrous advantage in favor of NATO).

    It's just that the "west", speaking about the capabilities of NATO, is very fond of pointing out only that it is directly subordinate to the command of NATO, modestly silent about the national armies of the countries that are members of NATO.
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 13 August 2022 11: 18
      +3
      modestly silent about the national armies of NATO countries

      In military conflicts, the main thing is the motivation of the troops. In Ukraine, many years of propaganda have increased the motivation of IEDs, which we see in practice. Westerners and NATO previously had no motivation, they will defend themselves if they attack. Today, everything has changed dramatically, over the decades of notorious anti-Russian propaganda, Western societies are so opposed to the Russian Federation that the motivation to exterminate "Russian cannibals", "Russian orcs" is dominant, which we see by the number of volunteers in Ukraine even from Slavic countries. True, something is being clarified to the volunteers on the ground, and the fire effect of desire is diminishing (it convinces the especially hard-nosed forever). How not to remember the Bolsheviks, masters of understanding the power of propaganda, so today, by Bolshevik methods plus dirty lies, the entire population of the countries of Europe, North America, etc. has been agitated. Now NATO armies will be motivated to resist anti-Russian lies. The only possible response is the readiness to use nuclear weapons to the fullest, and nothing else. An alliance with the PRC will strengthen the position of the Russian Federation, because there is nowhere worse, too many are set against Russia ... Why is the danger to the existence of the Russian Federation itself so blissfully perceived today - they are lulled by the means of a comprehensive hybrid war ... It is high time to raise a general alarm, but probably some internal affairs and reasons are more important ...
  19. Benjamin Offline Benjamin
    Benjamin (Benjamin) 13 August 2022 10: 44
    +1
    It is interesting that someone read this nonsense to the end, with such success one can compare Lada with Toyota or Mercedes
  20. _J0kerF Offline _J0kerF
    _J0kerF (Joe) 13 August 2022 11: 52
    -1
    Winston Churchill's famous phrase that generals always prepare only for the last war did not justify itself in our case, since our generals were not even ready for the last war.

    - what the author writes about, our army has been fighting continuously for 30 years in all sorts of local conflicts. "It's not at all difficult to carry garbage" (C)
  21. Vox Populi Offline Vox Populi
    Vox Populi (vox populi) 13 August 2022 11: 55
    +1
    Summing up what has been said, I would like to warn you against excessive and unacceptable euphoria in this case. The notion that here in Ukraine we are at war with the Papuans armed with bows and arrows is erroneous.

    Probably the only reasonable thought in the article ... winked
    ps Yes, and this one too:

    Winston Churchill's famous phrase that generals always prepare only for the last war did not justify itself in our case, since our generals were not even ready for the last war.
  22. Kapany3 Offline Kapany3
    Kapany3 13 August 2022 12: 27
    -3
    Quote: Vladimir Tuzakov
    but it would have been extinguished before the fire reached the bomb stores

    In the warehouse, aerial bombs and other ammunition lie without fuses, and in order to undermine, extreme temperatures are needed, therefore, from the fire of boxes or other wooden containers, bombs do not EXPLODE in littered cells (powder charges can). There is no way to do without the initiation of undermining. DIVERSION, and not otherwise ...

    Ipponsky boH, Sherlock, not otherwise, and why are we sitting here? Weak Motherland help, suggest?
  23. Andrey Zradinskiy (Andrey Zradinsky) 13 August 2022 13: 19
    +2
    All the information given, say on German howitzers, is just fiction. Where this information came from is not clear. At least give links. Yes ... a similar thing is found .. in the patriotic-victorious segment .. but the definition .. similar is in doubt without clear evidence.
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 13 August 2022 13: 42
      -2
      scroll up a couple of posts, there I gave links for rotkiv04 (Victor), this time from German sources - 10 out of 15 German howitzers are already bye-bye, and so on
      1. Monster_Fat Offline Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat (What's the difference) 13 August 2022 19: 35
        -1
        O! "German sources" went into action. laughing How about a look at the German "Oryx"? wink Or is it "such" ... not a source? And there are a lot of interesting things and even with "pictures" ... winked
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  25. Siegfried Offline Siegfried
    Siegfried (Gennady) 14 August 2022 00: 01
    +4
    triumph so-so, there is something to work on.

    Immediately striking is the need to develop a high-quality KAZ (trophy level or better) and install it on ALL tanks (including T-72), armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles (except for the old BMP-2). Buying a trophy is also an option!

    The SVO clearly demonstrated two things - tanks remain the most important weapon on earth (and were there any doubts? Only 3 people, and firepower, mobility and protection are incomparable even with an infantry platoon with the support of a battery of 120mm mortars) and the second - tanks have become very vulnerable, which is very limits the autonomous operations of armored groups to great depths.

    Even if KAZ increases the cost of the tank by 30%, it's worth it. The survivability of a vehicle is important not just for reasons of military economy (loss of crew, tank), but primarily in terms of combat effectiveness. When an armored group in isolation from the front loses tanks (equipment) from anti-tank systems, this sometimes reduces combat effectiveness to zero (crew uncertainty, wounded and killed, loss of firepower, etc.).

    The tank, as an infantry support, jumped out - fired and rolled back, this is not the level that tanks could be.

    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation cannot build up combat power by a quantitative increase. Only by increasing combat effectiveness and survivability. Defeating a Russian tank with an ATGM or even with a more powerful ATGM from a helicopter or UAV should be a difficult task, at a level of 0,1 - 0,2. The same applies to armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, in general, all equipment, with the exception of trucks (although you can also fork out here, these costs will definitely not be in vain).

    It still does not hurt to develop a canvas that reduces thermal radiation. So that the infantry does not glow in NATO thermal imagers and maybe you can come up with something with the equipment. Even if each cape for a soldier (like a raincoat) costs the same as the entire set of a warrior, it is also worth it ...
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 14 August 2022 02: 59
      0
      thanks for the comment, everything is on point, I would also add that we have heavy losses among the senior command staff (what to write about! but I know something) due to the fact that they glow like fireflies on a dark night, because all communication centers converge on them, they are simply hung with them - the car of the commander of the self-propelled guns division or the battalion commander of a tank regiment can be seen from the air right away, it glows like a beacon, for this reason it is hit with the first high-precision weapon. This war has taught us a lot. But this text was more devoted to artillery, self-propelled and towed. I wrote about tanks here -
      https://topcor.ru/26754-rossijskie-t-62-chto-oni-delajut-na-ukraine.html
  26. Unfaithful Offline Unfaithful
    Unfaithful (Anton) 14 August 2022 12: 39
    +3
    All this verbiage. The result must be seen on the map. If on February 23, someone wrote that in half a year the front line would still be near Donetsk, he would have received -100500 for such a comment.
  27. assault 2019 Offline assault 2019
    assault 2019 (assault 2019) 14 August 2022 13: 05
    +3
    that in 2022 in Ukraine we will really miss not even tanks and planes, but people, and Putin will urgently have to start forming a Volunteer Contract Army in order to plug holes at the front with it.

    And Putin, as the supreme commander in chief, did not see what has been going on for 8 years in Ukraine and what needs to be prepared for the Russian armed forces?
    And the Minister of Defense Serdyukov, during the period of the army reform, was directly supervised by Prime Minister Putin V.V.

    For some reason, the formation of the 400th corps of the Russian Guard, outnumbering all the ground forces, had enough funds and people, but to strengthen and qualitatively re-equip the ground forces, bringing their number to 500-600 thousand, neither the president, nor the government, nor the ministry of defense hands didn't come...
    Enough already of Serdyukov to make a scapegoat, everyone knows whose orders he carried out?
    1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
      Volkonsky (Vladimir) 14 August 2022 14: 55
      -2
      Serdyukov worked as a front cover, during this time the army was being reformed, a purely KGB trick, then Putin outplayed them, Shoigu accepted a new army, but the army is tested not in exercises, but in a real war, here the Ukrainians turned out to be better prepared than us at first, and we didn’t fight with them, we thought to force them to peace, it didn’t work out ...
    2. aslanxnumx Offline aslanxnumx
      aslanxnumx (Aslan) 14 August 2022 20: 11
      0
      Well, there is more hope for the Russian Guard than for the army. She not only broke up rallies, but also grabbed people on the street. And what about the army, there is little hope for it in internal affairs.
  28. the Saint Offline the Saint
    the Saint (Santa Claus) 14 August 2022 17: 47
    0
    Quote: Aleksey Alekseev_2
    Repeat the mistakes of WWII

    As the recidivist criminal E.Prigozhin stated (with a clear allusion to the Second World War), personally agitating convicts in the colonies to replenish the ranks of fresh cannon fodder: "prisoners get such a chance once every 80 years."
  29. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 14 August 2022 18: 11
    +1
    The triumph of weapons is embodied in victories, and somehow they are not very noticeable, except for the liberation of the LPR
  30. Vadim Sharygin Offline Vadim Sharygin
    Vadim Sharygin (Citizen) 17 August 2022 01: 53
    +2
    Our aviation has not yet encountered modern combat aircraft, drones and helicopters, as well as the air defense system of the NATO bloc. The AVAKs did not enter into action, and when they did, anti-ship, completely outdated Harpoon missiles sank the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the cruiser Moskva, from the first salvo. Fortified areas near Donetsk have been withstanding all our missile and bomb attacks for several months now. The infantry still moves on the armor, and not hiding behind the armor of the infantry fighting vehicle, as it is more reliable, while incurring unjustified losses. Our seemingly advanced and advanced EW troops, judging by the information from our official sources about more and more effective missile attacks on our headquarters by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, cannot create a protective interference field in the required quality and volume. Our RDGs work very imperceptibly, so quietly and accurately that the question arises: are they in our group. As for the operational-strategic art of the generals, in the case of the SVO, it somehow turns out that generals with knowledge of tactics and strategy at the level of a division and above are not in demand at all in the General Staff, the emphasis is on "battalion thinking" and battalion tactics for solving strategic, fateful questions for Russia. It is very important to stop the chatter about our "triumphs and victorious concepts" and start calculating the timing when we will have to pay for the slow pace and insufficient composition of the forces and means involved by our military-political strategists in the NMD. It's time to know exactly when exactly Russia will be forced to use nuclear weapons in other areas of the global confrontation with the NATO bloc. We need shelters, gas masks, filters, water supplies, and not victorious reports in the philistine media about how we are "triumphantly" repairing power lines in the Kursk region after the work of the Ukrainian DRGs.
  31. Akula Kharkiv 2 Offline Akula Kharkiv 2
    Akula Kharkiv 2 (Alik) 17 August 2022 13: 01
    0
    I will write a comment that the author just writes without understanding what he is talking about

    Let me explain. Ukraine receives weapons for the purpose.
    You need to break the columns of tanks in the first stage, take the javelins.
    It is necessary that aviation does not fly at low altitudes - catch stingers.
    It was necessary to counter the artillery, catch himars.
    Himars began to hit warehouses, bridges, Russia pulled air defense - get a supply of anti-radar missiles that will take out these air defenses. everything is calculated, the author!
    according to sau, well, what are the disadvantages? kicking up dust? so what, are you planning to fight in territories prone to contamination with omp? Or light armor? so, for 40 km, these self-propelled guns should not enter into battle at all, this is a howitzer, and not something else, the author!

    By the way, an operator who knows how to use a javelin can handle a UFO, no problem
    about the Caesars, does the author really think that something was sold there?