Did the BDK "Saratov" have a chance to survive during the missile attack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Did the BDK "Saratov" have a chance to survive during the missile attack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

On the eve it became known that the sunken large landing ship "Saratov" was raised in the port of the city of Berdyansk. This BDK was the first, but, unfortunately, far from the last warship lost by the Russian Navy in the Black Sea during a special operation to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine. Could this tragedy have been avoided?

"Saratov" refers to the large landing projects of project 1171 ("Tapir"), built in Kaliningrad at the Yantar plant. BDK of this type are intended for the transfer by sea of ​​troops and various cargoes, including tanks, with their landing on an unequipped coast. The Saratov is one of the oldest ships in the Russian Navy; it was launched back in 1964 and was commissioned in 1966. In total, 14 BDKs of the Tapir project were built in the series, but only three have survived to this day.

If you believe the statement of the representative of the military-civilian administration of the Zaporizhzhya region Vladimir Rogov, on March 24, 2022, the Saratov was sunk right in the port of the city of Berdyansk by a hit by a Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missile. According to publicly available video recordings, the attack resulted in the detonation of unloaded ammunition, and the ship sank. It is not yet known for certain whether he himself "swallowed water", or whether he was so promptly sunk in order to avoid further explosions in the port. Also during the attack, other Russian large landing ships were also damaged, but they remained afloat, their crews coped with the fire and safely removed them from the shelling zone.

The death of the Saratov became a tragic page in the history of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, but, alas, not the last. All subsequent losses of Russian ships demonstrated the presence of a critical problem in the form of a weak sea-based air defense system. But the old BDK had no chance of surviving, in principle, since the Tapir project, built in the sixties of the last century, could not really oppose Tochka-U with anything.

All of its anti-aircraft weapons are represented by one 57-mm twin anti-aircraft artillery installation ZIF-31B and MANPADS "Strela-3". Tests of the ZIF-31B shipborne anti-aircraft artillery mount took place in 1954-1955 and showed that the rate of fire for the left machine gun was 75 rounds per minute, for the right one - 53 rounds. The loading time of the racks on the machine was 2 minutes 10 seconds, the cooling cycle was 1 minute 36 seconds. The anti-aircraft gun was adopted in 1956 with the following recommendations from the selection committee:

The use of ZIF-31B on the ship pr.561 is possible with a sea state of up to 5 points. When shooting at night, a strong flame. The fragmentation tracer adopted in 1957 has a self-destruction time of 13-17 s, which is not enough, it should be 20-22 s to provide a range of fire at air targets up to 7500-8000 m. For firing at sea targets, it is necessary to speed up the development of a high-explosive projectile.

At the same time, the ZIF-31B artillery mount does not have remote control and can only fire at the AMZ-57-2 sight in manual mode. In general, to put it mildly, this is not quite what is needed to intercept a ballistic missile. It is also hardly worth expecting such miracles from a sailor with Strela-3 MANPADS. That is, in fact, all of our old BDKs are completely defenseless against air attack, and should have been used only under the cover of the air defense "umbrella" of sea-based escort warships or land-based air defense in the port of Berdyansk.

If you look at the experience of our potential adversaries, the Americans are trying to provide their own anti-aircraft protection even to universal landing ships, despite the fact that they are able to provide them with a reliable cover order. Yes, UDC and BDK are ships of different classes, but nonetheless. For example, all 7 of the remaining amphibious assault ships of the Wasp type are equipped with 2 × 6 - 20 mm. ZAU Mk. 15 "Phalanx" and 3 × 25-mm ZAU Mk. 38 Bushmaster. By the way, they do not forget to arm these “useless and defenseless vessels” with missiles: 2 × 8 Sea Sparrow and 2 × 21 Mk. 31. The Amerika-class amphibious assault ships carry 3 × 20 mm Mk15 Phalanx and 7 × 12,7 mm machine guns as anti-aircraft artillery, as well as 2 Mk29 ESSM air defense systems and 2 Mk49 RAM air defense systems. Well, and, of course, various electronic weapons.

In general, contrary to the imposed stereotype, not so UDC and “defenseless huge targets”, as they are sometimes trying to portray. Plus a warrant of multipurpose frigates and destroyers.

As for the Russian large landing ships, their anti-aircraft armament has improved somewhat on the improved project 11771 of the Ivan Gren type. It is represented by 1 × 2 × 6 - 30 mm AK-630M-2 "Duet" and 2 × 6 - 30 mm AK-630, and electronic - RLSUO 5P-10-03, KVPP KT-308-04. In total, there will be four such BDKs in the series, and the last two are being built according to a modernized project.

The sooner the Russian Navy replaces the outdated Tapirs that do not meet the challenges of the time with modern large landing and universal landing ships, the better.
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  1. Andreysradinsky Offline Andreysradinsky
    Andreysradinsky (Andrew) 3 July 2022 11: 52
    Ai well done. All laid out on the shelves. Explained everything and gave valuable advice. More such geniuses.
  2. Yuriy88 Offline Yuriy88
    Yuriy88 (Yuri) 3 July 2022 12: 43
    kudos to the author too! It turns out that we did not have a Black Sea fleet! One junk in modern realities! It is not clear why the shirt was torn and boasted when Moscow was 30 years old, this BDK was generally 60 tons .. A dull and pitiful sight .. Will the naval commanders stir after all this or not .. ?! No, they won’t move .. Because there are no factories, no docks, no sharpened engineers .. Boats .. they want to buy boats from the Chinese ..)) A disgrace, however ..! Here is the Russian fleet
    1. Sidor Bodrov Offline Sidor Bodrov
      Sidor Bodrov 30 July 2022 09: 16
      Liberals shamelessly screwed over the country. And all because they eat too much. Why does the United States have a military budget 10 times larger than Russia's? And because they have 35% personal income tax. Why has China overtaken the United States economically? Because they have 45% personal income tax. "Efficient" owners, you need to eat less! Then the shit in the country will be much less.
  3. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
    Yuri V.A (Yuri) 3 July 2022 12: 55
    Was there a chance to survive in "Saratov"? Of course, he was, like "Moscow" and "V. Beh", only not with this leadership, starting with the builder-guide, honorary biathlete and best friend of the general - Shoigu
    1. Breard Offline Breard
      Breard (Serg) 4 July 2022 08: 24
      Hmm.. unfortunately true! In the "leadership" of the country for the past few decades, they have been "thinking" and "creating" ... but everything turned out as it is .... only the Soviet one survived! What they didn’t sell, didn’t sell for scrap ... and new ones were built, large and modern, but perhaps the yachts of “our” main wealthy citizens of Russia.
      1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
        Yuri V.A (Yuri) 5 July 2022 03: 47
        If there is a desire and opportunity, let these citizens build their own yachts, but only at Russian shipyards and with the payment of 75% of the luxury tax from the real cost to the treasury
        1. Breard Offline Breard
          Breard (Serg) 6 July 2022 01: 15
          I would agree with you, but it's not realistic. Not realistic at all. Just absurd.
          And yet, in our 30 years of "shitocracy" both research and design and production activities in the field of shipbuilding have been destroyed in comparison with the USSR.
          Those who are in power with us with yachts and they write for us and demand the fulfillment of the LAWS of our and their lives.
          Well, it's like "bees! - against honey!"
          1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
            Yuri V.A (Yuri) 6 July 2022 02: 07
            You have been offered a condition under which anyone can own yachts, palaces and other luxury items, but the improbability of this offer does not make it absurd.
            The loss of many shipbuilding competencies still makes it possible to produce, if not the most perfect, but rather tolerable Gorshkov frigates, so we can handle the yachts.
            As for authoritarian power, it will have to change pretty soon, although it is possible that even for the worse
        2. Sidor Bodrov Offline Sidor Bodrov
          Sidor Bodrov 10 August 2022 13: 54
          They must pay not for luxury, but from income. At least 30 percent. And not only they, but everyone - according to the progressive personal income tax scale, as everywhere in the world. Then the country will have enough for everything, including weapons.
    2. Sidor Bodrov Offline Sidor Bodrov
      Sidor Bodrov 30 July 2022 09: 29
      I wonder if a simple idea could not have come into their heads before the start of the NWO to equip the old ships with two or three "Shells" taken from wheeled platforms.
      1. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
        Yuri V.A (Yuri) 30 July 2022 12: 32
        What are you talking about ... it seems that some extraneous structures should monitor the combat capability of the ship. Since 1981, there has been no nasal air defense system on the Kulakov BOD; recently, instead of the project Dagger, which was initially insufficient, they put Bending. That is, the ocean destroyer has MANPADS as an air defense system
        1. Sidor Bodrov Offline Sidor Bodrov
          Sidor Bodrov 10 August 2022 13: 57
          Let any structures follow - what they can. And not for combat effectiveness, but for survivability and safety.
  4. zenion Offline zenion
    zenion (zinovy) 3 July 2022 13: 38
    That's what a disgrace it turned out not to comply with the order. Back in the 1990s, there was an order to drown everything made in the USSR. They did not comply and caught such a shame. Nuclear weapons should have been left, except for aircraft and the rest, but they missed here too. A million or more carrier pigeons were to be prepared to deliver nuclear weapons in a crooked way to the enemy. The pigeons died because of nonsense, they forgot to feed them and had to drive all the food over the cordon, for mere several hundred million dollars. to buy new pigeons. Of course the money is gone. Mice and rats stole dollars from apartments to their owners living in the United States. Here is such a weightless from the early 1990s to this day. The country is generally rich, but there is no order.
    1. Amper Offline Amper
      Amper (Vlad) 8 July 2022 10: 20
      The country is rich! How many billionaires have sprung up, they have been bringing goods to foreign countries for 30 years, but it still does not end! True, the people have degenerated, the local economy is in decline ... But the country is rich, it's a pity that the fools got it. Let's wait for the beginning of prosperity, the chief boyar promised. Right now, he will trample on his own, since he promised. He knows what he's talking about! He has known for more than 20 years, but he will trample right now, the time has come to shove, everything is prepared, ripe. We are waiting, sir.
      1. Black Colonel Offline Black Colonel
        Black Colonel (Bazileus) 9 July 2022 11: 28
        Well, well, why bother? What was 20 years ago and what is now. And the fact that in the 90s with the Army and Navy was going on finally silently. Plus two Chechen wars, plus Mishiko was pacified, plus the default of 2008, and many other "pluses". Industry is reviving, shipbuilding and aircraft building are also on the rise, not as much as we would like, but nevertheless there is movement. So I consider the banter of the Lords above to be provocative. And Russia was, is and will be in spite of all sworn friends.
  5. faiver Offline faiver
    faiver (Andrei) 3 July 2022 15: 00
    The photo for the article is unsuccessful, in the foreground there are only "Poles" 775s, only in the distance is a blurry small "Tapir".
  6. Pavel57 Offline Pavel57
    Pavel57 (Paul) 3 July 2022 21: 00
    The author is sure that modern artillery can provide protection against Tochka-U, somehow strange.
  7. Dukhskrepny Offline Dukhskrepny
    Dukhskrepny (Vasya) 3 July 2022 21: 25
    Still, sailors from the DShK would be put on them. The Russian Navy as "Trishkin's caftan".
  8. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 3 July 2022 22: 54
    the author is completely wrong, the new BDKs are just as useless as the old ones, their construction is a mistake and a useless cut of the budget, their air defense is a little better, but it cannot be called reliable, these are all peacetime transports that require serious air defense cover and air defense, but it is not ..... so there’s no point in bdk and udk either .....
  9. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 3 July 2022 23: 20
    The ship BDK "Saratov" is a transport vessel. Fighting missiles is not his job.
    1. Sidor Bodrov Offline Sidor Bodrov
      Sidor Bodrov 4 August 2022 12: 37
      You must take on any task, at least in a minimal amount, if you do not want to drown the entire landing force along with the ship.
  10. El13 Offline El13
    El13 (El13) 3 July 2022 23: 55
    It looks like it's time to start reading the article with the author's last name, so as not to waste time ... Put, please, the author's name before the article.
    1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 July 2022 16: 22
      As for the names of the authors - absolutely right. First I look at the author to understand what to expect.
  11. Alexander Popov Offline Alexander Popov
    Alexander Popov (Alexander Popov) 4 July 2022 07: 57
    The sooner the Russian Navy replaces the outdated Tapirs that do not meet the challenges of the time with modern large landing and universal landing ships, the better "

    You have to wait a long time.
    All capacities of military shipbuilding are aimed at the production of boats and other coastal ships.
    Not a single large surface ship has been built in 30 years.
    1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 4 July 2022 16: 25
      This is one of those facts that shows that Russia is not planning a conventional war with NATO.
      The author is sure of the opposite. And therefore a bunch of panic articles on the topic that Russia is not ready for a war at sea. For example, to fight with Japan for the Kuril Islands.
  12. assault 2019 Offline assault 2019
    assault 2019 (assault 2019) 4 July 2022 11: 30
    The Black Sea Fleet now has air defense ships made from defective patrolmen, project 22160, by attaching cables to the helicopter deck of the land-based TOR-M2 air defense system.
    Here it is the pinnacle of engineering from the naval design bureaus, their leading employees for such a development should be awarded a reduction order and retired.
    Idiots or pests designed weapons for the BDK pr. 11771
    the military prosecutor's office should figure it out, but the fact that instead of the AK-630 there should be two Pantsir-M modules, and the on-board anti-torperous Packet-NK would not even argue ....
  13. Amper Offline Amper
    Amper (Vlad) 5 July 2022 10: 50
    Yes, MO command, do not take a plywood Reichstag! Here talent is needed, not "family" values.
  14. wladimirjankov Offline wladimirjankov
    wladimirjankov (Vladimir Yankov) 5 July 2022 18: 54
    there are very big doubts that this "point y" got into the BDK Saratov. This old rocket has a circular deviation of about 200 meters. The cluster warhead must explode directly above the hold of the large landing ship to start a fire and detonate the ammunition located there. Most likely this is a sabotage or a UAV dropped a bomb or a simple grenade into the hold. And the version with a "dot y" is more convenient for the authorities.
  15. Volodya Nigmetov (Volodya Nigmetov) 6 July 2022 14: 23
    In general, the question is what kind of fleet do we need? Considering that the main use of the fleet today is in Syria and in the Ukrainian company, it’s just to drag a few missiles to the launch site and use them. The question arises, is it not easier and, most importantly, cheaper for Russia to build some kind of self-propelled or towed barges stuffed with the same calibers or something else? Cheap as much as possible destructive and minimum damage in case of loss of both material and moral In any case, how does the lost cruiser Moscow sound! Or let's say a barge is lost. Leisurely. Plus, the striking power of such barges will be an order of magnitude higher than any other weapon. Will the submarines be cooler? But then compare prices and production times. What is called land and sea. I don’t think that tomorrow a barge building boom will begin in Russia. I hope that at least someone will hear
    1. Vladimir Tuzakov (Vladimir Tuzakov) 7 July 2022 11: 31
      The idea is correct, because modern homing long-range weapons no longer need to be delivered directly to the places of use, it is enough to bring targets to the distant frontiers without entering the enemy’s near zones of destruction. This is applicable, for example, in bomber aviation, replacing expensive bombers with heavy transport aircraft for the delivery of long-range airborne missiles is, in fact, quite possible, while the set of portable weapons is increasing quantitatively (which was used by the US Air Force, they even managed to put artillery batteries on transport aircraft and apply) ... The new weapon also changes the concept of application, the main thing is that it be quite effective and not expensive. Your example with "barges with weapons" is quite correct ...
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 7 July 2022 21: 25
      in any case, armed barges are an order of magnitude more effective than an aircraft carrier unnecessary for a continental power, and cruisers dying from the first missile ... I also agree that the main weapons at sea are now submarines and coastal-based aircraft, coastal anti-ship missiles
  16. yakisam Offline yakisam
    yakisam (Alexander) 6 July 2022 20: 30
    Plus a warrant of multipurpose frigates and destroyers

    Which are whole in the Black Sea Fleet ... how many? Zero?
    1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 7 July 2022 21: 22
      there are even too many 4 frigates in the Black Sea Fleet, and three new ones, but .... they are afraid of the fate of the cruiser Moscow because they don’t show their noses from Sevastopol .... no warrant from any ships will save from coastal missiles,
  17. Georgy Klochkov Offline Georgy Klochkov
    Georgy Klochkov (Georgy Klochkov) 10 July 2022 09: 36
    It is impossible for any country (well, except perhaps the United States, with its ability to print and lend money without limits) to have time to implement full-fledged types of weapons everywhere. In Berdyansk, they simply took a chance because of the usual Russian frivolity, or there was simply no other way out. This is a war, sometimes you have to consciously make high-risk decisions in order to complete an important combat mission in a timely manner. It is sometimes difficult for someone who watches the war from the height of a home sofa to understand this. The main miscalculation of the Black Sea Fleet command is the underestimation of the intelligence of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which used data from the air and space intelligence of NATO countries. But mistakes and miscalculations in war are commonplace. War is a constant competition of intellect, courage and skill. And while in this competition, Russia, as a result, wins.