The problems of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation have to be covered up by the personal heroism of the sailors


The months-long battle for Zmeiny Island will undoubtedly become one of the most important milestones in the military history of Russia. Still, our "great land power", as they are stubbornly trying to position it in some circles, had to really fight at sea! The loss of several ships by the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation involuntarily forces us to rethink the concepts artificially imposed on us.


"Island of bad luck"


Snake Island is a small piece of bare land, located about 35 kilometers from the mainland of the Odessa region and 120 kilometers from Odessa itself. He passed under the control of Russia on the very first day after the start of a special military operation. At the same time, one of the myths of Ukrainian propaganda was born: the border guards who allegedly refused to obey the demands of the cruiser Moskva to surrender were villainously bombed by the “Russian orcs”, for which they received the title of “heroes” posthumously. True, it soon became clear that all Ukrainian border guards were alive and eating off in captivity, and were later exchanged for Russian prisoners of war, but who in Nezalezhnaya is embarrassed by such trifles?

After that, the Snake Island itself turned into a source of constant informational occasions. The Armed Forces of Ukraine, with the support of aviation, periodically conduct fierce attempts to recapture it, leaving for slaughter aircraft, manned and unmanned, the remnants of their Navy and the elite of the special forces. The Russians successfully repel all these attacks, which we will discuss in detail later. However, it is necessary to understand why Kyiv needed this small piece of land in the northwestern part of the Black Sea and why Moscow is now holding on to it so much.

The strategic importance of the Serpentine is determined by its convenient geographical location. Just 45 kilometers from the island is a country - a member of the NATO bloc Romania. During Soviet times, it was equipped with a radar company of the air defense forces and a special detachment of the coastal surveillance system of the Navy, which monitored the activity of the North Atlantic Alliance in the region, controlled the airspace and covered the approaches to Odessa. Under Ukraine, the Burevestnik-1 radar station operated on the island. After the outbreak of the armed conflict, the significance of the Serpentine has increased dramatically.

On the one hand, it is important for Russian troops to monitor activity in the sky over Romania, which is used by Ukrainian military aviation. The tragic death of the Moskva missile cruiser, which the Russian Navy used as a distant radar observation post near the coast of the Odessa region, may be connected precisely with this circumstance. On the other hand, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have now received Harpoon anti-ship missiles and other long-range multiple launch rocket systems from their Western collaborators. By placing them on the island, they will be able to target almost half of the Black Sea, effectively locking our fleet in Sevastopol. This should not be allowed in any case, which is why such fierce battles are going on for the Serpentine.

On the night of May 8, 2022, the Armed Forces of Ukraine threw into battle aviation, manned and unmanned, as well as armored assault boats of project 58181 Centaur for landing. Russian troops managed to repulse this attack, destroying three Ukrainian Su-24 bombers and one Su-27 fighter, three Mi-8 helicopters with troops on board, one Mi-24 helicopter and 29 drones, including eight Bayraktar TB2 attack drones, as well as three armored boats. with paratroopers. Another large-scale attempt to capture the island was made on 21 June. More than a dozen Bayraktar TB2 strike UAVs participated in it, and Zmeiny himself was subjected to massive fire from Tochka-U ballistic missiles, Uragan multiple launch rocket systems and American-made M-155 777-mm howitzers from the coast of the Odessa region. Apparently, the target designation data of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was given and fired by the US Air Force's Global Hawk RQ-4 strategic reconnaissance drone.

This attack was also successfully repulsed, and the Ukrainian landing did not take place. However, behind the dry lines of the report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, it is not clear what is actually happening on Zmein, in what conditions the Russians have to heroically defend a tiny piece of land, which is under direct fire from rocket and cannon artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and air strikes of the Air Force. And about this рассказал Deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant General of the Reserve Andrey Gurulev, former commander of the 58th Combined Arms Army, deputy commander of the Southern Military District. From the details of the defense of the Serpent involuntarily, the hair stands on end.

Heroism reluctantly


Thus, the main danger to the Russian garrison comes from the air. During the May attack, our Tor-M air defense system was destroyed. To compensate for the loss, the DK-701 landing craft with the Tor-M2 air defense system was sent to the island, but it was destroyed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine along the way. The command of the Black Sea Fleet set the task of loading anti-aircraft systems directly into the sea onto landing craft using the SPK-54150 self-propelled floating crane. However, the crew of a civilian vessel refused to take part in all this due to the lack of social guarantees. Major General Mikhail Yasnikov, Deputy Fleet Commander for MTO, had to personally go home to the crane operator and convince him of the need to help our guys on Zmein.

Having achieved his goal, the major general, together with the crane operator, arrived at the floating crane. ZRPK "Pantsir-S" was overloaded onto the landing craft, but due to the loss of stability, he rolled. Then Yasnikov decided to secure the boat with the slings of a floating crane and go to Zmeiny so, but 9 out of 12 civilian crew members rebelled. Even the brave crane operator refused to go under the blows of "Points-U". The Major General had to personally master the management of the crane installation in 1 hour and take full financial responsibility. This bunch went to the island under the cover of air defense systems installed on conventional support vessels.



When approaching the Serpentine Armed Forces, they attacked the floating crane of the Tochka-U OTRK, but, fortunately, they missed. The unloading of the "Shell" was carried out personally by the deputy commander of the fleet, Yasnikov, in just 20 minutes, and after another 20 minutes, this ZRPK had to repel an air attack from another "Tochka-U". Then the brave major general unloaded the Tor-M2 air defense system from the deck of the landing craft, and then the APU was released on the floating crane of the Neptune anti-ship missile system. The same Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system was able to intercept the Ukrainian missile at the last moment.

The heroism of Mikhail Yasnikov, as well as other Russian military men who hold the defense of Zmeinoye in such conditions, is simply amazing. The garrison of this ill-fated island deserves the highest awards. It remains only to understand why our military again have to perform real feats, covering up the failures of the authorities in their preparation.

What do we see? Problems with long-range radar reconnaissance. Shortage of combat-ready surface ships in the Black Sea (and not only) fleet. Problems with sea-based air defense, because of which you have to improvise, turning unarmed "peace doves" into "air defense corvettes", or even support vessels that are not adapted for combat operations. In the Black Sea, at least 4-6 full-fledged corvettes of projects 20380 (20385) are needed, of which a couple would be enough to confidently hold the Serpent. But they are not there, and our major generals have to personally unload land-based air defense systems and air defense systems under fire from Tochek-U and Neptune anti-ship missiles. And we have de facto nothing to make a landing near Odessa.

This is what happens when the concept of a “great land power” is forcibly promoted to the detriment of a modern, combat-ready fleet. And, as you can see, sometimes you really need it. Who would have thought six months ago that real military operations would take place in the Black Sea, but they are going on, and we are suffering heavy losses, and failures in preparation have to be covered up by personal heroism at the level of the deputy commander of the fleet. And what will happen, for example, in the event of a clash over some other islands, say, the Kuril Islands, with Japan and the United States standing behind them, which recognize Japanese sovereignty over the "northern territories"? Tokyo "glazed"? Oh well. Immediately after Kyiv, Warsaw and London.
69 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 28 June 2022 14: 07
    +2
    In Soviet times, it was equipped with a radar company of the air defense forces and a special detachment of the coastal surveillance system of the Navy, which monitored the activity of the North Atlantic Alliance in the region, controlled the airspace and covered the approaches to Odessa.

    Protected from Turkey? Romania and Bulgaria were then in the Warsaw Pact and nothing came from their side.
    And what prevents the use of warships left by Ukraine? Aren't they on track at all? Instead of a civilian barge, can a former Soviet warship be better used? Why are they idle in the bay?
  3. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
    Krapilin (Victor) 28 June 2022 14: 20
    +2
    This is the text from the internet:

    ... The commander of the fleet set the task of forming a detachment of ships to deliver air defense systems to the island by landing craft. For this, loading on the high seas onto landing craft was planned using a self-propelled floating crane "SPK-54150" of the "Shell" air defense missile system. However, most of the civilian crew of the vessel refused to go to sea due to the lack of social guarantees, there was not a single crane operator.
    Deputy Fleet Commander for Logistics, Major General Mikhail Yasnikov personally arrived at the residence of one of the crane operators and convinced him of the vital need to complete this task. First by helicopter and then by boat, they arrived together on a floating crane.
    The crane operator began reloading the Pantsir-S air defense missile system onto a landing craft.

    However, due to the large mass of the zrpk, the landing craft rolled.

    Major General Yasnikov decided to secure the sides of the boat with crane slings. The threat of capsizing has been removed.

    Deputy Fleet Commander for Logistics, Major General Mikhail Yasnikov personally arrived at the residence of one of the crane operators and convinced him of the vital need to complete this task. First by helicopter and then by boat, they arrived together on a floating crane.
    The crane operator began reloading the Pantsir-S air defense missile system onto a landing craft.

    However, due to the large mass of the zrpk, the landing craft rolled.

    Major General Yasnikov decided to secure the sides of the boat with crane slings. The threat of capsizing has been removed.

    To deliver the "Shell", other military equipment and supplies to Zmeiny, there was only one option - to go on a crane. 9 out of 12 civilian crew members refused due to lack of social guarantees, including the only crane operator. Major-General Yasnikov was trained to work on a crane installation within an hour and took full financial responsibility.

    And this is the text of the author (!?) of the article "The problems of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation have to be covered up by the personal heroism of the sailors":

    The command of the Black Sea Fleet set the task of loading anti-aircraft systems directly into the sea onto landing craft using the SPK-54150 self-propelled floating crane. However, the crew of a civilian ship refused to take part in all this due to the lack of social guarantees. The Deputy Fleet Commander for Logistics, Major General Mikhail Yasnikov had to personally go home to the crane operator and convince him of the need to help our guys on Zmein.

    Having achieved his goal, the major general, together with the crane operator, arrived at the floating crane. ZRPK "Pantsir-S" was overloaded onto the landing craft, but due to the loss of stability, he rolled. Then Yasnikov decided to secure the boat with the slings of a floating crane and go to Zmein, but 9 out of 12 civilian crew members rebelled. Even the brave crane operator refused to go under the blows of "Points-U". The major general had to personally master the management of the crane installation in 1 hour and take full financial responsibility

    As they say - find 10 differences...
    1. Krapilin Offline Krapilin
      Krapilin (Victor) 28 June 2022 15: 08
      +1
      Probably from here - "Politics Without Pictures" - the author "copied"

      ...Here I am talking about the feat of a small group of military personnel and especially Major General Mikhail Yasnikov. They, risking their lives, ensured the protection of the Serpent's Island from enemy attacks from the air.
      About the heroism of our soldiers in the defense of Serpent's Island...

      ??
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 06: 57
        +1
        The link to the source is given in the text. This is first.
        Secondly, what exactly is the essence of the collision, I did not understand? What do you mean, wrote off?
        I briefly retold the story from the deputy, indicating a link to the source.
  4. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 28 June 2022 14: 32
    -1
    Quote: Krapilin
    As they say - find 10 differences...

    What did you want to say? Vitya, do you even understand what retelling, indirect speech and all that is?
    Don't embarrass yourself any more. You seem to have some kind of clinic. request
    1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 28 June 2022 20: 31
      0
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      what is retelling, indirect speech and all that?

      your retelling distorted everything so much ..... and by the way, I still expect tasks from you for an aircraft carrier for our continental power .... if only he were in the Black Sea Fleet, ... they would immediately drown him, with one coastal missile? or... or just a second missile?
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 06: 55
        -2
        your retelling distorted everything so much .....

        How much and what did he distort, can you elaborate? For some reason, our chief editor doesn't think so.

        and by the way, I still expect tasks from you for an aircraft carrier for our continental power ....

        Vladimir, have we reached some special level of communication with you? Do I personally owe you something?
        Wait further.

        if he were in the Black Sea Fleet, ... would he be drowned immediately, with one coastal missile? or... or just a second missile?

        Apply the same question to any other Russian ship and answer it yourself.
        1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 10
          0
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          Wait further.

          you evade, it’s weak to write to you, you make a smart face with a bad game
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Teacher Offline Teacher
    Teacher (Wise) 28 June 2022 14: 53
    +11
    It's embarrassing to even read this. A country claiming to be the second pole of power in the world! He puts ground air defense on barges and drags them across the sea, and all this in a battle with the insignificant Naval Forces!
    Are there still those who giggle at the mosquito fleet and the number of admirals in the Navy? Yes, they have already justified their existence, essentially neutralizing the Black Sea Fleet.
    The second unfortunate truth is that the threat from the coast comes from the territory of southern Bessarabia. This 99% pro-Russian part of the Odessa region has a connection with the rest of Ukraine through TWO bridges. One and a half dozen missiles have already been fired at one of them (the result is unknown), and not a single one at the second! This is from a series of riddles why all communications in Ukraine are inviolable.
    By interrupting communication with the rest of Ukraine, life can be greatly complicated for those missilemen and artillerymen who are shelling Snake Island.
    Do not forget about anti-Ukrainian sentiments in this part. Now they are under the yoke of the SBU, but it is here that it is easiest to get rid of these shackles. I wonder if there are specialists of such a plan in the Russian Federation?
    1. Alex R_2 Offline Alex R_2
      Alex R_2 (Alex R) 28 June 2022 16: 50
      0
      Yes, but they forgot to tell us about it
    2. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
      Bulanov (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 31
      0
      This is from a series of riddles why all communications in Ukraine are inviolable.

      One of the suggestions for solving this riddle was made by Sergei Mikheev.
  7. InanRom Offline InanRom
    InanRom (Ivan) 28 June 2022 14: 54
    +10
    It would be nice if only the problems of the fleet ... It's just that during the NWO, all the nuances hidden and hardly noticeable to a simple layman were very clearly "highlighted".
    And this is all the result of a 30-year-old friendship "in a huff" (from the NATO transshipment base in Ulyanovsk to joint exercises with NATO, not to mention "business", foreign citizenship of politicians and officials, property, accounts and children and families abroad) with " Western colleagues and partners" and the presence of an "unsinkable" fifth column in power:

    13.15 Briefing by the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Peskov, the main thing:
    - hostilities in Ukraine may stop "before the end of the day" if Kyiv orders the nationalists to lay down their arms and fulfill Moscow's conditions;
    - a special military operation is going according to plan and achieving its results;
    — there has been no progress in the issue of cargo transit to Kaliningrad;
    - The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation gave comprehensive information on the strike in Kremenchug, and we should be guided by it;
    - NATO is an aggressive bloc created for the purpose of confrontation, and it continues to demonstrate this essence;
    - The Ministry of Defense continues to work on plans to strengthen the western borders of the Russian Federation against the backdrop of new dangers that are generated by NATO's actions;
    - Vladimir Putin has not yet received reports from the Ministry of Defense on the plan to strengthen the western borders of the Russian Federation;
    - NATO's advance to the borders of the Russian Federation has been going on for two decades and continues, Moscow is well aware of this;
    — investigators from the Russian Federation, DPR and LPR are preparing a set of evidence of acts of terrorism and genocide by Ukraine;
    - Moody's statements about the alleged default of Russia are difficult to assess, the agency stopped rating the Russian Federation;
    - the establishment of marginal gas prices that the G7 would like is the subject of negotiations;
    - possible dates for the completion of a special military operation in Ukraine, as well as plans to hold a quadripartite meeting in Istanbul on the export of Ukrainian grain, were left without comment

    until the end of the day? lightning-fast denazification?! or does the Kremlin believe that the West, after the announcements about the destruction of Russia, will simply surrender?! If the enemy does not surrender, they destroy him, and denazification (not explained from above "is not a thing for a day, and not for a year, but for decades)
    further, a "modest" statement that Kaliningrad is under blockade ... "did not appear" ... in order to appear - you need to clearly and firmly react, and not state the facts ...
    and "NATO-aggressive bloc" - in general, a song for the blind and deaf from the authors of these songs, who for two or three decades has been bending and fawning - let us in?! apparently NATO was cute and fluffy, with a pink bow?!
    Instead of defending the borders, the Defense Ministry is still "working on plans" - as in a timely manner, although it was necessary the day before yesterday, but "Vladimir Putin has not yet received reports from the Ministry of Defense on the plan to strengthen the western borders of the Russian Federation;" - in general, a cherry, in the light of the ongoing shelling of the Russian Federation and arrivals on our territory.
    About the promotion - "Moscow knows this well" - and that's all? and all these 20 years, who knew what they were doing, while NATO was advancing and expanding and the Nazi-Bandera non-humans flourished in Ukraine ?!
    All criminal cases and "a set of evidence of acts of terrorism" for the West, as a sponsor and organizer of this, are an empty phrase. The perpetrators must be punished to the fullest extent of military laws without regard to the West, "colleagues and partners" and other "tricks". The inevitability of punishment, and not muddy negotiations and "absentee" cases.
    and further - some kind of "business showdown" in the style of the "market" - default, gas prices, "moody", grain .... who is talking about what ....
    The ancients said: "DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO SAY - BE SILENT! and IF YOU SPEAK SOMETHING, YOUR WORDS SHOULD BE BETTER THAN YOUR SILENCE!"
    and while the Russian army and the militias of the DPR and LPR are heroically fighting the Nazis, it’s better for some to remain silent, because such a “blizzard”, “water”, etc. only play into the hands of enemies.

    for now, instead of the promised blows:

    On the eve of the NATO summit in Madrid, Roscosmos published images and coordinates of Western decision-making centers from space, photographs taken by the Resurs-P satellite were published on the state corporation's Telegram channel.
    RIA News

    is this a joke from Rogozin ?! in the light of 4-month promises, it sounds idiotic and mocking in relation to the affected residents of Russia, Donbass, and fighting Russian soldiers and officers?!
    and one more touch to the problems:

    The Second Western District Military Court sentenced Dmitry Mikhalchenko, Director General of Forum Holding, Dmitry Mikhalchenko to 20 years in prison for embezzlement during the construction of the residence of the President of Russia in Novo-Ogaryovo, RIA Novosti correspondent reports.
    RIA News

    interesting - an object of increased importance and secrecy of the first person and no one checked and controlled *! what nonsense! Is it because, instead of the state approach and observance of not personal, but state interests by officials and authorities, everything is covered and saved only by the personal heroism of our military?!

    and while Rogozin is posting "photos", and the "mustache" is talking about nothing:

    Shelling was recorded from the side of the armed formations of Ukraine: 07:20 from the direction of N. Artemovsk (Bakhmut) to the present Perevalsk with the use of the M142 HIMARS MLRS (one missile)," the publication says.
    RIA News

    and one more "our partners and colleagues":

    13.55 Turkish company Baykar:
    Ukraine will receive three Bayraktar TB2 attack drones free of charge.

    French Defense Minister Sebastian Lecornu:
    France is going to transfer to Ukraine a significant number of armored personnel carriers, as well as CAESAR self-propelled artillery mounts in addition to those transferred earlier, the possibility of supplying the Exocet anti-ship missiles requested by Ukraine is being actively discussed.
    1. Moray Boreas Offline Moray Boreas
      Moray Boreas (Morey Borey) 29 June 2022 02: 23
      +1
      I take off my hat, comrade in front of you! Well done! You are speaking the truth! Great comment! Interesting information!
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. Yuri V.A Offline Yuri V.A
    Yuri V.A (Yuri) 28 June 2022 15: 23
    +6
    And where is the air cover for landing and unloading on the island or the aviation of the fleet and the Aerospace Forces continuing to celebrate the gain of total air superiority?
  10. Pavel Mokshanov_2 (Pavel Mokshanov) 28 June 2022 15: 28
    +3
    When the Gaidars and Chubais came, they did not need the capacity to produce ships, aircraft and other things. They said we'll buy everything over the hill. This especially flourished under the stool Minister of Defense Serdyukov, who ruined the remnants of the defense industry. And life has taken a turn. Much is not enough for the war, the same drones and ships. Well, at least there are rockets. But we will get experience in practice, not in theory.
    1. Ivanushka-555 Offline Ivanushka-555
      Ivanushka-555 (Ivan) 29 June 2022 04: 01
      +8
      It remains only to find out - who exactly appointed Taburetkin to this position? He said "A", say "B", otherwise after reading your opus it seems that Taburetkin self-appointed, and then quit.
  11. Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 June 2022 16: 27
    +3
    So what does the fleet need at the moment: landing ships, aircraft carriers or ships of the near sea zone?
    The answer was given by Admiral Krylov 110 years ago in his famous report to the State Duma. We need a balanced fleet. And at this stage, ships of the near zone are needed.
    1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 28 June 2022 20: 13
      -2
      it is obvious that aircraft carriers are not needed at all, and the Black Sea Fleet (as well as the Baltic Sea Fleet and the Sea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbJapan) only needs a mosquito fleet .... and transfer frigates and corvettes with large landing craft, UDC to the north and Kamchatka, (and the Varyag cruiser too .. ... until it was sunk like Moscow in a closed trap in the Sea of ​​​​Japan)
      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 June 2022 20: 53
        +4
        And what will the UDC and BDK do in the North? Landing troops on Svalbard?
        Or should large ships be kept away from the theater so that they are not drowned?
        1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 28 June 2022 23: 41
          -3
          Udk and BDK can be used in peacetime as weapons transports. I agree that their combat use is pointless, the death of Orsk confirms this, thank God it did not have an infantry battalion .... Large ships can serve far from coastal missile systems, then their survival rate is higher, the ocean wave is more dangerous than the sea one and there you will have to have ships of larger displacement, optimally in the region of 3000-4000 tons, the cruisers are outdated and the death of Moscow is a confirmation of this, but on the ocean cruisers can still serve until decommissioned, of course it makes no sense to build new cruisers and destroyers, for the ocean the PLO frigate is optimal, and for the closed sea ships of the third rank
          1. Bakht Offline Bakht
            Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 00: 29
            +2
            These are all controversial claims. I'm not against large ships. They are needed. But at the present time it is necessary to "stretch the legs along the clothes." One or two UDCs, maybe a light aircraft carrier. You need to develop skills in construction and application. It is necessary to train crews, create flight crews. The Japanese lost the war by losing the flight crew of the Strike Force. They themselves called the second aircraft carrier fleet (Shokaku and Zuikaku) "children of concubines".
            In any case, it is better not to get carried away with landing operations at the present time. Great risk of defeat. But to cover the deployment area of ​​submarine missile carriers is the most important task of the Navy.

            PS We are often proud of the glorious traditions of the Russian Navy. But in all honesty, both in the First and Second World Wars, the Imperial and Soviet Fleets showed themselves not from the best side. And traditions (especially in the Navy) are an important thing. The best British naval commander (second only to Nelson), Admiral Cunningham was not afraid to risk capital ships. He led battleships into battle like destroyers. His famous phrase:

            It takes three years to build a ship. It takes three hundred years to create traditions.
            1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 00: 37
              -2
              Quote: Bakht
              In any case, it is better not to get carried away with landing operations at the present time. Great risk of defeat. But to cover the deployment area of ​​submarine missile carriers is the most important task of the Navy.

              I agree, it just makes no sense and physical possibility to cover the SSBN deployment area, there are eternal ice or the coast of California .... you need to cover the exit areas from the BAZ, that is, a radius of 1000 km around Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky and the entire Barents Sea to the ice, it is there that the entire large surface, about traditions ..... what is it? can build sailboats? ... let's create a tradition of having at least one real fleet, in the north, and not useless target ships smeared for the admiral's feeder in closed puddles
              1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 06: 43
                +2
                Traditions are not sailboats. This is completely different. Cunningham said these words during the evacuation of Crete. The English fleet then suffered heavy losses and there was a proposal to stop the evacuation in order to save the ships.
                In October 1943, three destroyers of the Black Sea Fleet were lost. The commander of the kapraz detachment Negoda was sent to Stalin. To Stalin's question, how did you lose three ships and so many people, Negoda replied "I saved the Soviet people." He didn't get punished.

                I have worked on both small and large ships. The difference is colossal. Living conditions are terrible on small ships, there is no way to place equipment, strong pitching, seaworthiness is low. Find Krylov's book "My Memoirs" There is a chapter "how 500 million were received for the fleet." The book is on the militaire. I just don't feel comfortable posting links from my phone right now.
                1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 01
                  0
                  Quote: Bakht
                  I have worked on both small and large ships. The difference is colossal. Living conditions are terrible on small ships, there is no way to place equipment, strong pitching, seaworthiness is low. Find Krylov's book "My Memoirs" There is a chapter "how 500 million were received for the fleet." The book is on the militaire. I just don't feel comfortable posting links from my phone right now.

                  thanks for the answer, I read Krylov, unfortunately this unconditionally talented person did not understand all the harm that caused our country with his talented performance, the State Duma suggested investing in submarines and minesweepers (minelayers), which is the best solution for the conditions of the Gulf of Finland and the marquise puddle, Now the entire Finnish fleet is wisely using this concept, as a result of Krylov's strong speech, intimidating the deputies with an imaginary German attack on Sestroretsk .... millions of rubles were thrown at unnecessary battleships, they survived three wars, but were never useful, the Gulf of Finland was blocked by mines and either they did not go to sea because of the danger of submarines and torpedo boats ... but these battleships killed the country, not enough money for field artillery shells because they were spent on battleships, and the idle mob of sailors overthrew the government and killed the admirals. I will not list all the battleships and cruisers of other countries that died in a few minutes ..... As for the convenience of a large ship for the crew, I will not argue, but what is more important is convenience or combat necessity, tactical freedom? I stormed on an 18-meter boat in the Baltic, survived, all warships are more comfortable than a boat .... did we come to fight for comfort? maybe we’ll give the infantry a Mercedes and stop forcing them to burrow into the ground where it’s dusty and damp?

                  It turned out that the boy Vova
                  He was terribly spoiled.
                  Clean and fresh
                  He was a terrible sissy.

                  It all started at dawn
                  - Give it! Submit it!
                  Get on a horse.
                  Look at me!

                  ......
                  So Vova Sidorov
                  Grow up just be healthy!
                  In a nutshell, he was:
                  Stupid, lazy and stupid.

                  It's good that other soldiers -
                  Completely different guys.
                  They can stand watch for days ...
                  Sailing on a boat in a stormy sea…
                  Any target will hit
                  And they never let you down.

                  Everyone, like him, would be spoiled.
                  To be conquered by us long ago.
                  1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 09: 18
                    0
                    When Krylov spoke, Russia had the whole Baltic and Finland. It is not necessary to apply the situation of 1920 to the situation of 1912. Then the Baltic Fleet was exactly the Baltic. His performance was absolutely correct. And it's good for any time. And the blocking of the Gulf of Finland with mines in both wars, as well as the mining of hippodromes to Sevastopol in 1941, brought nothing but harm.
                    Before the Second World War, the naval command was fond of high-speed ships with outstanding characteristics. These are torpedo boats with a speed of 50 knots and leaders with a speed of 40 knots (Tashkent). They turned out to be completely unsuitable in a real battle. And small hunters with completely mediocre characteristics were in demand. And the Germans successfully used Siebel self-propelled barges.
                    The head of the boss must be clear
                    1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 29
                      0
                      Quote: Bakht
                      It is not necessary to apply the situation of 1920 to the situation of 1912.

                      the situation in 1912 was the same as in 1914, and in 1941, neither then nor later did battleships come in handy, the talent of a strategist to foresee this! all the more so by investing millions of strong tsarist rubles, and if wings, not having the talent of a strategist, misled the deputies ..... all the more so since he was personally financially interested in cutting the budget (let's call a spade a spade), because he was a shipbuilder .... .and never repented of the evil that he caused Russia .... how many Russian soldiers died in the trenches without shells .... because they drank on battleships .... how many sailors and soldiers are dying now because they drank on unnecessary Kuzyu billions?
                      1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 10: 11
                        0
                        Battleships were not used for another reason. Yes, and in the Baltic there were only 4 types of Sevastopol. The lack of shells was for a different reason. Not because of the construction of battleships. There was a norm of shells approved by Sukhomlinov.
                        The situation in 1912 and 1941 was completely different. Yes, the Baltic States returned to the USSR, but it was impossible to equip the bases in a year and a half.
                        And if you want to know exactly why battleships were not needed in 1914, then read about the operations of the Baltic Fleet. The Germans did not take him into account at all. And you can also learn a lot of interesting things about how the battles took place on the Kasar reach.
                        Large ships are not only convenience. This is an opportunity to place weapons. At least the same radars. And how Sheffields, due to unsatisfactory seaworthiness, could not fight, you can read from the English admirals. Air defense systems jammed due to the fact that they were flooded with water during a storm. The microswitches did not work.
                      2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 10: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Bakht
                        Battleships were not used for another reason.

                        for what reason did not use battleships?
                      3. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 12: 30
                        0
                        And you look at the performance characteristics of these "battleships" and compare them at least with the German ones. I'm not talking about Iron Duke. And the Elizabeths (laid down around the same time and took part in the Battle of Jutland) are considered the best battleships in both worlds.
                        Plus the flooding qualities of Russian admirals. In the Patients' book "The Tragedy of Errors" there is a good analysis of the hostilities.
                        And "Sevastopol" was sometimes called simply armed barges. Yes, academician Krylov also participated in their design. But he is not God. And they built what they could build.
                      4. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 13: 26
                        0
                        performance characteristics of battleships .... this is a generic problem of large surface ships, since the ship is large, the construction period is also long and the series is small, although it stretches for decades, so it becomes obsolete on the slipway .... another problem is that it is a pity to write it off, therefore they serve for a long time and even more obsolete, battleships like Sevastopol, the cruiser Moscow, etc. ..... Krylov developed the theory of unsinkability, he was an engineer and didn’t really understand anything in strategist tactics ... in general, the problem of stupidity of the admiralty is caused by too large ships, while the admirals served on small ships, they were heroes with talents Ushakov Sinyavin Lazarev Kornilov Nakhimov after Nakhimov, admirals began to be obtained from rogues and intriguers, but why? because there is little intrigue on a small ship, with whom to intrigue cap 3 on a minesweeper? but there are a lot of minesweepers, and the competition will be between cap 3 at sea and in exercises, in a combat situation based on the result of completing combat missions, and not intrigues in the company’s cabins .... what is the complexity of a male team at sea closed for a long time in an iron can, you should to be aware if they served .... so on a big ship it’s often not those who have business-like combat tactical and strategic qualities that get out, but those who have learned to crawl out on top of other people’s heads with meanness and intrigue ..... after those who served directly on the sailboats of Ushakov Nakhimov, all the admirals turned out to be rather weak, except for Amelko, who served on ... minesweepers
                      5. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 15: 01
                        0
                        This is no longer serious. Nelson commanded the ships of the line. At that time, the largest in the world. And even now I would not begin to determine the professional suitability of a sailor by the size of his ship.
                        The same Sevastopol was built for 4 years. The British built similar ships in a year and a half. Now the Chinese are churning out a couple of frigates a year.
                        Which of the admirals immediately commanded the battleship? There are no such. And never was. Responsibility is the most important quality of any leader. Both military and civilian. And the ability to take responsibility for your decisions. Stalin did not punish the same Resentment. But he punished the commander. Because I figured out who is to blame for the tragedy.
                        By the way, this episode is well described and parsed to the bone in Shigin's book "Sea Disasters of the Second World War". It's easy to judge from the outside. I would look at any of us in a critical situation. I'm not sure that everyone will make the right decision.

                        PS Once again in Sevastopol. In 1913, they tested the armor of battleships under construction. On the Black Sea. A shell from Evstafiya (an old battleship) pierced through the armor plate of Sevastopol. And Nicholas II forbade the battleships to enter the general battle. As for the decision of the Emperor, I cannot say whether this is true or not. But the tests were carried out and the results were just that.

                        PPS By the way, in 1915 Kaiser Wilhelm forbade the commander of the fleet, Paul, to go to sea without his permission. And Stalin in 1943 brought all the ships of the Black Sea Fleet to the reserve. Without his permission, not a single large ship could go to sea. So the Black Sea Fleet ended the war in October 1943.
                        It's about the value of capital ships.
                      6. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 18: 23
                        -1
                        Quote: Bakht
                        And Stalin in 1943 brought all the ships of the Black Sea Fleet to the reserve

                        a wise leader, forbade large ships to go to sea, seeing their futility and knowing how easily many battleships and cruisers were sunk in the Second World War, On a small ship, the commander gets used to decide, respond, develop tactics and strategy, on a large ship, officers up to cap2 are taught to perform and obey , .... read the "birth of an officer" L Sobolev, about a small ship
                      7. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 19: 28
                        +1
                        You have some strange ideas about the growth and formation of commanders. Completely disagree with you.
                        Again. I have worked on both small and large ships. The opportunities for growth on a larger ship are immeasurably greater. On a small one, you will remain small. As the saying goes
                        "A small dog until old age is a puppy"!
                      8. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 21: 44
                        -1
                        Quote: Bakht
                        The opportunities for growth on a larger ship are immeasurably greater.

                        it’s really easier to make a career on a big ship, but a small ship teaches you to be independent
                      9. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 23: 57
                        +1
                        Wrong opinion. I'm not talking about a career, but about professional growth. And independence can be exercised on a large ship. And on a small one. I have examples from my own experience. I was in charge of a small ship. But he became a specialist only when he switched to the big one.
                        One hundred lieutenants cannot replace one general.
                      10. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 30 June 2022 00: 28
                        -1
                        Quote: Bakht
                        And independence can be exercised on a large ship. And on a small one.

                        perhaps you personally were independent on a large ship and on a small one, if you are used to thinking for yourself, but the system of a large ship itself dulls independence, and on a small ship independence has all the conditions for development
                      11. Bakht Offline Bakht
                        Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 30 June 2022 05: 10
                        +1
                        We repeat. I see no reason to continue. Your point of view is wrong. All my practice confirms this. I'm not going to convince you.
                    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 30 June 2022 00: 30
                      -1
                      Quote: Bakht
                      One hundred lieutenants cannot replace one general.

                      out of a hundred lieutenants, you can find a better general than the one you compare them with, if only because the ability to develop thinking decreases with age, the old man has experience, the young has fresh ideas, where is the truth?
                    3. Bakht Offline Bakht
                      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 30 June 2022 05: 13
                      0
                      The truth is that even a general can have fresh ideas. And the young can be completely inadequate.
                      As they say, "pilots can be brave or old. I prefer to fly with the old."
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 07: 03
    +1
    These are all controversial claims. I'm not against large ships. They are needed. But at present it is necessary to "stretch the legs along the clothes." One or two UDCs, maybe a light aircraft carrier. You need to develop skills in construction and application. It is necessary to train crews, create flight crews.

    That's right, Bakhtiyar. We need both UDC and aircraft carriers. But gradually. Now the priority is really behind PLO corvettes, minesweepers, frigates, and so on. As we securely protect the BMZ and the SSBN deployment areas, it is possible and even necessary to deal with aircraft carriers.
    And don't waste your time arguing with Vladimir. He was still noted at VO as an aircraft carrier. Naval officers smear him there regularly in discussions, so he moved here.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 08: 57
      +1
      So you wrote me down as an opponent of aircraft carriers. But I've never been against big ships. Just keep in mind that they are too valuable to risk them. Several diametrically opposed examples.
      Cunningham was not afraid to send large ships to Crete. But he quarreled to death with Churchill when he suggested sinking a couple of battleships.
      Hipper abandoned the damaged Blucher and saved his squadron from defeat. Negoda did not dare to abandon the damaged destroyer and lost all three.
      Yamamoto did not dare to attack the 11 battleships against the retreating enemy. Three years later, the lone Yamato went to sea against the entire American fleet.
      The Japanese turned their battle fleet into a mockery, which was called the "Khasir Fleet". They joked that there are three useless things in the world "Egyptian pyramids, the Chinese wall and battleships like Yamato". It's good to have large ships, but you also need to have decisive commanders.
      In May 1942, the command of the Black Sea Fleet did not dare to send a battleship to the coast of Crimea. Even damaged, aground, he could save the Crimean Front. This, of course, is an assumption, but it is quite probable. The fact that the whole front is much more valuable than the old battleship was not considered by the naval command. For the loss of a battleship, you can lose your position, and others will be responsible for the loss of a front.
      We need staff and this is much more important.
      PS In the battle at Cape Matapan, Cunningham was asked to identify the ships first. The answer came instantly "Ask my ass. Fire!" He called his headquarters the old zats.
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 16: 14
        -1
        So you wrote me down as an opponent of aircraft carriers. But I've never been against big ships. Just keep in mind that they are too valuable to risk them. Several diametrically opposed examples.

        Well, it's good that we finally figured it out.
        I'm sympathetic to the UDC and Aviks, but I understand the need for corvettes, minesweepers, frigates, and so on.
        1. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 17: 32
          0
          Corvettes, minesweepers, frigates, etc. vital right now. And aircraft carriers and UDC will be needed tomorrow. If not the day after tomorrow. It's easy to be smart after the fact. But we all live in the present and do not know what will happen tomorrow. So the CBO showed that some ideas turned out to be premature (to put it mildly).
          Everyone was mesmerized by the fifth or seventh technological order, drones, network-centric wars. All this is necessary and even important. But some colonel of the US Army turned out to be right, who a couple of years ago expressed concern that the Russian army was strong precisely in the artillery component. The Armed Forces of Ukraine, which receive 50 thousand shells on their heads, will not let you lie.
          Also with the ship's composition. If landing operations are not carried out on the Black Sea, then what operations will the fleet be able to carry out in the far zone? None. The Chinese have understood this for a long time. That is why their marine program is divided into three stages. The first is the near zone (Taiwan). She's done. The second stage is the middle zone (from the Kuriles to the Strait of Malacca). It is being implemented now. The third stage is the world ocean. This is an AUG in an amount of at least 6 pieces. And this program is calculated until 2050. At their pace of building ships.
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 07
      -1
      you are all deceiving no one smeared me, on the contrary, I made the aircraft carrier theme indecent, and all its adherents except you fell silent ... and you are also afraid of me, write in the third person, because you understand that you have no arguments, but I have,. .... well, all the same, I repeat for the fifth time, write down the goals and objectives of an aircraft carrier for our continental power! different about the goals of the frigate and corvette a .... weakly! by your refusal, you show your weakness, and you also immodestly wrote that you are smart and quick-witted. but it’s unbearable for you to write goals and objectives .. a weak young man is weak, and he also put on a journalist’s hat, but is unable to formulate a position, shame
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 16: 12
        0
        you are all deceiving no one smeared me, on the contrary, I made the aircraft carrier theme indecent, and all its adherents except you fell silent ...

        Here. Indecent is the most accurate definition of what you do...

        and you immodestly wrote that you are smart and quick-witted. but it’s unbearable for you to write goals and objectives .. a weak young man is weak, and he also put on a journalist’s hat, but is unable to formulate a position, shame

        Thank you for lifting my spirits at the end of a hard day at work. smile
        1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 18: 27
          -1
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          Thank you for lifting my spirits at the end of a hard day at work.

          quote, if you worked with your gray matter, then you wouldn’t wrap such phrases, but ..... you can’t even formulate specific tasks for AB .......
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 06: 59
    -1
    And what will the UDC and BDK do in the North? Landing troops on Svalbard?

    In the North and the Pacific Ocean, the UDC will serve as helicopter carriers, providing PLO with their air wing. But our Vladimir will not tell you about it.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 08: 57
      +1
      The air wing of helicopter carriers is very, very weak.
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 16: 11
        0
        These are PLO helicopters. 16 pieces are almost enough to complete the tasks.
        1. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 29 June 2022 17: 19
          +1
          And besides the PLO, there are no other tasks? It is unprofitable to use 40 thousand tons for 16 helicopters. It seems to me.
        2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 18: 38
          -1
          Detection range of an underwater target of the diesel-electric submarine type pr.613 at a speed of 6-8 knots, a depth of 100 m, sea state 2 points - 8 km

          Боевой радиус действия (с нахождением в районе 1,4 час) — 200 км ....... слабоват вертолёт. только свой УДК сможет худо бедно защитить от устаревших ПЛ и то вряд ли..... В состав вооружения АПЛ типа «Лос-Анджелес» также входит противокорабельная ракета «Гарпун». ПКР «Гарпун» в модификации для подводных лодок оснащается активной радиолокационной головкой самонаведения и имеет 225 килограммовую БЧ. Дальность составляет 70 км при околозвуковой скорости полёта..... радиус 200 км дает окружность 800 км, на 16 вертушек, получается 50 км дырявой обороны на вертушку но.... не все вертушки смогут всегда постоянно и сразу находиться в воздухе,...... и притом только при тихой погоде......так что ВЫВОД= УДК не сможет обеспечить даже свое собственное ПЛО.... по ПВО молчу, его на УДК почти нет... УДК беззащитная цель =мишень, похуже крейсера Москва
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 40
      -1
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      providing PLO with its air wing.

      Isn't it better to build PLO aircraft? are you able to calculate the efficiency per ruble invested in PLO coastal aviation, and A100 AWACS, comparing your vulnerable UDC monstrous vessel with them? providing weak local PLO with turntables? .... you again have nothing to say? will you start fidgeting around and around again? Give up! you are defeated like a Swede near Poltava, an unnecessary Kuzya ka and your arguments will explode and fly upside down .. where are you going to base an unnecessary UDC in the Pacific Ocean, will you find a berth for him? in the North, the UDC can still drive the carcass of Kuzi from its only pier and climb there with its own carcass ... humble yourself The UDC is a peacetime weapons transport, a ferry on the Vladivostok Petropavlovsk line, you also need to recruit passengers there ....
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 28 June 2022 18: 33
    +1
    Reminiscent of old stories about the Ossetian conflict, when the Head of the Militia personally ran around the Georgian tank with a grenade launcher and pounded, pounded, pounded ..

    It is especially interesting that from the entire World Cup of the Navy (as if obliged to act on orders, with a bunch of specialists), the loading / unloading of a single Shell was carried out personally by the Deputy Commander of the Fleet.

    Either indeed, there is no one to load less than a major general, or according to Nekrasov, everyone worked, but they wrote only about the general ...
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 07: 09
      +1
      A team worked, but do you know many generals who are ready to take personal responsibility and personally turn their heads?
  • Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 28 June 2022 20: 02
    +1
    the defense of the Serpentine and the death of Moscow certainly proves the profound fallacy of the concept of large surface ships! there are several BDKs in the Black Sea Fleet that are not prone to roll under the weight of the Shell .... but they cannot be used, the death of Moscow and Orsk proves the viciousness of the concept of large surface ships and the impossibility of using them .... you have to fight exclusively with a mosquito fleet, and how much I wrote that BDK and monstrous UDC are meaningless in wartime ???? !!!! and what you need to have Dugongs and Chamois, .... I turned out to be right again! only, apparently, there are no Dugongs there (and after all, it could be transferred from the BF and CFL), and the chamois is too small for the Shell, instead of a pair of UDCs and a pair of too large BDKs that have been uselessly built lately, dozens of Karakurt air defense and Chamois could be made and Dugongs and minesweepers, and not be afraid of outdated mines .... The author twitches and is disingenuous, does he want a pair of corvettes in the Black Sea Fleet that would supposedly solve all the problems of Serpentine? so after all, there are a couple of frigates in the sense of air defense more powerful than corvettes ... why didn’t they save the Serpentine from attacks? Your corvettes (with flawed air defense) and frigates in a closed area are useless !!!! how much I write - "all ships of the first second rank need to be transferred to the oceans"? don't you hear? this is where sailors die
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 07: 08
      0
      Vladimir, it is you who constantly distort. Especially now, using the death of Moscow in his anti-aircraft carrier mania. It's ugly and dishonest.
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 17
        -1
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        Especially now, using the death of Moscow

        all the more so, you honestly write that not only Moscow, but also another large surface ship is also critically vulnerable to coastal anti-ship missiles, if your talent ceases to serve as false stereotypes, then with your eloquence you will save the crews of frigates and the cruiser Varyag locked in narrow waters under the gun of enemy coastal anti-ship missiles ..... I have been trying for a long time to have Moscow and the frigates taken to the North, where it has tasks, unfortunately it was drowned and people died, now I want 4000 people not to die in five minutes on an unnecessary continental power aircraft carrier, and that the frigates and large corvettes came in handy in the Barents Sea, where they are very needed, and did not die as ingloriously as Moscow from a coastal missile, you need to accept and accept that I am right, if your talent ceases to serve false stereotypes, then you will save the crews of frigates and cruisers with your eloquence Varyag locked in narrow waters at gunpoint of enemy coastal anti-ship missiles
    2. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
      Bulanov (Vladimir) 29 June 2022 09: 44
      0
      If you think like this, then all large ships are good targets at a distance closer than 500 km from the fortified coast. Especially after the advent of hypersound.
      1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) 2 July 2022 07: 49
        0
        Quote: Bulanov
        all large ships are good targets at a distance of less than 500 km from the fortified coast. Especially after the advent of hypersound.

        of course! it’s obvious based on their performance characteristics of missiles, the future of the submarine fleet is also a more obvious fact for a long time, Only dreamers - pink ponies, cherish their blue dream of fantasizing themselves as an admiral on a huge battleship or aircraft carrier and proudly go somewhere (where it’s not clear and why it’s not important because it everything is just a blue dream) and therefore such dreamers become adherents of the totalitarian destructive sect of aircraft carrier witnesses, although they are not even able to formulate tasks for him ..... not a single
  • Vox Populi Offline Vox Populi
    Vox Populi (vox populi) 28 June 2022 20: 06
    +3
    The problems of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation have to be covered up by the personal heroism of the sailors

    Mdaaa, but we still don’t know everything (bad)! I don't even want to comment...
  • turbris Offline turbris
    turbris (Boris) 28 June 2022 23: 05
    0
    Well, here again - we urgently need to build corvettes, but why? They will provide long-range radar or air defense, but they will not be able to cover themselves from Harpoons. And in general, what kind of long-range radar are we talking about? It all depends on the altitude of the aircraft or the KR, at an altitude of 10 km and from the Crimea everything is perfectly visible, but at a low altitude - you won’t find anything further than 40 km, which is why Pantsir and Tor work from Snake. The author did not understand the situation.
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 07: 05
      -1
      Judging by your comment about corvettes, it was you who did not figure it out. Anyway.
  • 1_2 Offline 1_2
    1_2 (Ducks are flying) 29 June 2022 00: 57
    -1
    да очень странно, зачем столько тратить усилий МО РФ и лишние огромные риски для росс ребят, находящиеся на этом острове как зайцы в лодке Муму, ради контроля этого острова? есть загоризонтные радары, они якобы видят ф35 за 2000км )) а надводные суда тем более обнаружат, можно гонять самолет разведчик под прикрытием су35 и контролировать эту часть моря. вряд ли натовцы рискнут по воде тащить оружие, зная что где-то рядом пасутся росс Варшавянки и корветы, Ониксы на берегу Крыма дежурят.
    let the dill sit there if they so desire and get VKS planning bombs on their heads
    1. Luenkov Offline Luenkov
      Luenkov (Arkady) 3 July 2022 11: 37
      0
      Even if they bring something to the island, then it would be more valuable ...
  • Moray Boreas Offline Moray Boreas
    Moray Boreas (Morey Borey) 29 June 2022 02: 13
    +4
    One can argue with the author about where he wrote off this material and so on ... but the fact remains: the low security of the fleets! A mess in command and control. Poor planning or lack thereof! And if opponents tell me that I am exaggerating, then I will answer better to overdo it than not to do it ...
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 06: 52
    0
    Quote: Morey Borey
    One can argue with the author about where he wrote off this material and so on ... but the fact remains: the low security of the fleets! A mess in command and control. Poor planning or lack thereof! And if opponents tell me that I am exaggerating, then I will answer better to overdo it than not to do it ...

    I didn’t write off, but retold and correctly quoted. These are very different things.
  • Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 29 June 2022 07: 05
    0
    Quote: 1_2
    it is unlikely that NATO members will risk dragging weapons through the water, knowing that Russian Varshavyanka and corvettes are grazing somewhere nearby, Onyxes are on duty on the coast of Crimea.

    There are no corvettes on the Black Sea.
  • Potapov Offline Potapov
    Potapov (Valery) 29 June 2022 08: 33
    +3
    The leadership completely atones for its inability to organize hostilities with personal heroism and courage, intelligence and actions ...
  • Luenkov Offline Luenkov
    Luenkov (Arkady) 3 July 2022 11: 32
    0
    General well done. Does the crane operator have a last name?