After Donbass, the main battles will move to the Black Sea


A special military operation to denazify and demilitarize Ukraine has been going on for almost two months. Despite the fact that the Russian authorities want to complete it as soon as possible, there is no end in sight to it. Unfortunately, things are moving along the path of continuous escalation of the conflict, and the “limited nature” of the NWO itself is to blame. One of its consequences may be the actual loss of the Russian Navy's ability to operate in the Black Sea. And, alas, this is not a joke.


dangerous sea


The key to understanding this gigantic problem is the tragic fate of the missile cruiser Moskva. The final conclusions about the causes of the death of the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation can be made only after the announcement of the results of the investigation of the special commission. However, the version with the destruction of the Russian ship by Ukrainian anti-ship missiles "Neptune" at least deserves consideration. The main question that all caring people asked after the news of the fire on the cruiser and its subsequent flooding was what was he doing there alone? For the 40-year-old flagship, purposefully created to fight against US Navy aircraft carrier strike groups, there were no tasks by definition near the coast of Odessa. Or were they?

There were, and the matter is taking a very serious turn. The problem is that on the side of Ukraine, some Eastern European countries that are members of the NATO bloc are already actually fighting directly against us. Neighboring Poland has been turned into a huge logistics hub through which Kyiv receives heavy weapons. The remnants of the Ukrainian military aviation are based on the territory of Romania, where it flew in the first days of the NVO. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation threatened Bucharest with a finger, however, apparently, it is from the Romanian airfields that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now actively operating against the RF Armed Forces. Ukrainian fighters and attack aircraft take off from Romania, go to Odessa at ultra-low altitudes, and from there to Eastern Ukraine, where they are trying to attack the Russian army.

To track their movements, presumably, "Moscow" was sent to the coast of the Odessa region. All hope was on the cruiser's radar, which made it possible to shine through the airspace over Nezalezhnaya, Moldavia, Romania and Bulgaria. It is not surprising that the Russian ship has become a priority target for the enemy. We do not yet know whether it was actually attacked from the shore by anti-ship missiles, and if so, whose production they were, however, all the ingredients for the sad outcome of the alleged missile attack were available. The Fort long-range air defense system of the old cruiser, which was a naval version of the S-300P, has problems intercepting low-flying anti-ship missiles, and such exercises cannot be called a frequent occurrence in the Russian Navy. The Osa-MA short-range air defense system also has a height limit on the targets it can hit. In general, if several anti-ship missiles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine received accurate data for target designation and flew at an altitude of 3-6 meters, they would almost certainly hit our cruiser.

What really happened there, the commission of inquiry will later tell. Now we need to talk about what problems the Russian Navy is now facing in the Black Sea. Judge for yourself.

At first, deliveries of heavy weapons to Ukraine through Poland have begun. Among them, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson promised to transfer modern anti-ship missiles to Kiev, namely Harpoon and Brimstone:

The Ukrainians asked for help with lethal weapons for the Black Sea region. We have a list of what they need. We try to provide this as much as possible.

The Brimstone is a self-guided air-to-ground missile capable of hitting targets at a distance of 2 kilometers when launched from an aircraft, or 60 kilometers from a helicopter, in the Brimstone 40 version. The Harpoon missile looks much more dangerous because it has many modifications and a longer range. In addition to ship, underwater and land-based, Harpoon anti-ship missiles can be launched from an aircraft. In the SLAM version (AGM-84E, abbr. English Standoff Land Attack Missile), its carriers are American carrier-based fighters and attack aircraft, as well as land-based F-16 Fighting Falcon fighters.

Secondly, Kyiv requested from NATO a large package of military assistance, including 200 combat aircraft. Among them are 51 MiG-29 and 72 Su-27 fighters, 36 Su-25 attack aircraft, as well as 50 American F-16 fighters and Swedish JAS-39 fighters.

Thirdly, back in 2015, the Ukrainian authorities allowed foreign citizens to serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Here is how President Petro Poroshenko commented on this decision:

At the expense of foreigners who will enter the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other military formations, the need for conscription for military service during the mobilization of citizens of Ukraine during the special period will also decrease.

What does this mean in aggregate? In the near future, Kyiv may receive Soviet, Swedish and American-made fighters and attack aircraft, as well as modern long-range anti-ship missiles. They also have a military base in Romania, virtually untouchable due to its status as a member of the NATO bloc. Military experts from the United States and the European Union can legally serve as pilots on them. The entire South-Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and the Black Sea are in the zone of destruction of Ukrainian military aviation. On the eve of a possible strike on the Crimean bridge, Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov spoke:

If we had the opportunity, we would do it. If there is an opportunity to do this, we will definitely do it.

If the peninsula, the Crimean bridge and the Russian ground forces in the south-east of Ukraine are able to cover the Russian Defense Ministry with air defense / missile defense systems, then at sea everything is very sad. Even a lone cruiser equipped with a long-range Fort air defense system could become an easy prey for anti-ship missiles fired from the coast. What can we say about small Russian ships that have almost no real air defense? Ukrainian F-16s equipped with SLAM anti-ship missiles will literally send them to the bottom in 1 missile, without even entering the coverage area of ​​their anti-aircraft systems.

In fact, the Armed Forces of Ukraine can lock up the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation at the base in Sevastopol, establishing fire control over the Black Sea. This is the fee for betting on mosquitoes. Without constant serious air escort, our "rocket gunboats" will soon be unable to calmly move away from the coast.

Who is to blame and what to do?


We will not talk about the problems of the shipbuilding program and the lack of a clear concept for the development of the Russian Navy now. What all this led to, we already see very well, just the conclusions by different people for some reason are diametrically opposed. Let it be. It's about something else.

What should we do now with the same Romania? To gasp with "Caliber" at its military airfields? Easily, but only this would be direct military aggression against a NATO member, which would entail the application of Article 5 of its Charter on the right to collective defence. That is what Bucharest, or rather in Washington, is trying to achieve. We cannot complain about Romania precisely because we are not at war with Ukraine, and all bans on Western military assistance to it are only non-binding wishes of Moscow. We have a "special military operation", and nothing more.

Yes, President Putin and the RF Ministry of Defense threatened the “Western partners” with a finger so that they would not interfere. And they took it and intervened, starting to supply weapons and provide their territory for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So, what is next? The first to show aggression against the entire North Atlantic Alliance, when even Ukraine alone was so much trouble?

The root of the problem lies precisely in the limited format of the CBO. If Moscow officially declares war on Kiev and warns the countries of Eastern Europe that any military assistance to Ukraine will be considered military aggression against Russia, then everything will change dramatically. After the very first departure of fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Romanian airfields, the RF Armed Forces will have the right to “calibrate” these airfields. And there will be no Article 5 of the NATO Charter, since de jure it is Romania that separately showed military aggression against Russia. The same will apply to other Eastern European neighbors.

An attempt to wage a “proxy” war against the NATO bloc does not work, as evidenced by the death of the cruiser Moskva. Further it will only get worse. It is objectively time to end with the vicious NWO format, moving on to a full-fledged war with Ukraine and cutting off energy supplies to our direct enemies. Yes, we will win!
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  1. Mikhail Novikov Offline Mikhail Novikov
    Mikhail Novikov (Mikhail Novikov) April 22 2022 12: 03
    +3
    How many strategists we have, however! And everything is on the Internet - they know better from here. And the physiognomy is not visible, and there is no need to answer for anything.
    1. Vladimir Orlov Offline Vladimir Orlov
      Vladimir Orlov (Vladimir) April 22 2022 21: 12
      -4
      Here, any layman can see that time is working against us. There was only one option - a decisive blow, and not chewing snot (the swing was a million - near Kyiv, so why go to Gostomel, and not on Bankovaya street ..?)
      The first fright passed, the "friends" began to drag out, there is plenty of money for weapons (yes, this is $ 300 billion in Central Bank reserves - we will not see them again, but initially these were supposed to be investments, pensions - have you seen your retained funded part for a long time ..? but, damn it, Nabiullina was approved again for 5 years!! - how is that?!)
      Now, in fact, a war of attrition has begun - many months / several years, during which all the other "Russophiles" will simply be cut to zero. And if we win (and do not slow down, as in 2014), then who will live there, the "remnants" who hate us ..? And who will populate these ruins, "guest workers" ..? Our birth rate is insufficient to maintain even our numbers.
      These thoughts in the bright minds of the "experts", apparently, did not happen, and the decision makers finally "delusional" - far from reality, and of course, the "retinue" is afraid not to agree ... everything is in the best traditions.

      The chance was only in speed and preparation, but in the end everything was in one place ...
      to which I want to send such "experts" ...
      1. Ulysses Offline Ulysses
        Ulysses (Alexey) April 22 2022 21: 43
        -5
        Here, any layman can see that time is working against us.

        That's why he is a layman ... sofa.

  2. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
    Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 22 2022 12: 29
    +5
    What should we do now with the same Romania? Crash "Caliber" on its military airfields? It's easy, but that's just it will be direct military aggression against a NATO member, which will entail the application of Article 5 of its Charter on the right to collective defence.

    The problem is deeper.
    If Romania were the cause of everything, it would be natural and reasonable to consider a blow to it. They hit and forced to retreat. However, this will not give anything, and this is not about NATO.
    Romania is the same "weapon" of the States as Ukraine. To fight against her, and limit herself to this, is also stupid.
    The author of ALL our problems is the States.
    They need to be dealt with.
    Do you think we are unable to do this? So what? Does this make the impact on Romania, Poland and Ukraine effective?
    We will not avoid a collision with the States. Trying to avoid this wastes our precious time and resources. It's just stupid. They still have the war for Kaliningrad, the Japanese war for the islands, etc.
    We will still have to face the States preparing for war, having already used up all our resources of time and energy.
    This is what they are leading us to.
    Someone once said:

    There are no hopeless situations - there are situations from which you still do not like the way out

    Don't drag it out - "BYE"
    1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
      Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 22 2022 15: 50
      +5
      For the time being, we can use our nuclear weapons as a threat, and not for destruction, but this “yet” is constantly decreasing as we go through stages when it is justified to raise such threats, and we do not.
      But in the 20th century, nuclear weapons regularly served as a generally accepted factor in maintaining peace on the planet.
      Why?
      Because the presence of nuclear weapons was supplemented by an unconditional determination to use it.
      It was precisely this determination that the USSR demonstrated in 1962 to the emboldened Americans, who deployed nuclear weapons in Turkey and Italy for a "decapitation" strike.
      In response to this, the USSR:
      - deployed missiles in Cuba (Operation Anadyr).
      - made a "warning shot" with a nuclear weapon at an experimental field on Novaya Zemlya (Tulip exercises)
      The Americans understood correctly and removed everything.
      Where is our resolve now?
      Answer.
      3.01.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX Russia as part of the nuclear five (USA, UK, France, China and Russia) stated:

      “We declare that there can be no winners in a nuclear war and it must never be unleashed. Since the use of nuclear weapons would have far-reaching consequences, we also reaffirm that nuclear weapons - as long as they continue to exist - must serve defensive purposes, deter aggression and the prevention of war. We believe that the further proliferation of such weapons must be prevented."

      Russia is the only country whose participation in this statement, taking into account everything that happened and was still planned then, is UNEXPLAINABLE.
      So far, we have responded equally evasively to repeated indirect questions from our partners on this subject.
      We do not demonstrate our determination to achieve results from our threats in Ukraine either.
      The conclusion is that we are not going to use our nuclear weapons as a threat to the United States, although the threat of a nuclear war in the United States and the determination to implement it is the only thing that can stop them, and what they are really afraid of.
      Our wonderful nuclear weapons are now a means of useless revenge, when everything will already be lost by us, which in the current conditions is a GUARANTEE of a future nuclear war.
      This is how I see it so far
      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 22 2022 19: 03
        -9
        Quote: Alexey Davydov
        Because the presence of nuclear weapons was supplemented by an unconditional determination to use it.

        No not like this. The guarantee of peace was mutually assured destruction. Everyone understood that any use of nuclear weapons would most likely lead to an exchange of nuclear strikes between the USSR and the USA, which would lead to the destruction of these countries.
        This mutually assured destruction hasn't gone anywhere, and today, no one in their right mind will attack a country with nuclear weapons.

        Did it ever occur to you that in the event of a threat of the use of nuclear weapons by the Russian Federation, the United States could launch a preemptive strike in the hope of minimizing losses?
        1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
          Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 22 2022 20: 47
          +4
          Did it ever occur to you that in the event of a threat of the use of nuclear weapons by the Russian Federation, the United States could launch a preemptive strike in the hope of minimizing losses?

          You are asking the right question.
          A preventive (disarming) strike is delivered by means that have a minimum flight time, excluding a decision on the retaliatory use of nuclear weapons.
          In the event of our threat, the enemy will weigh two factors:
          A - The likelihood of us bringing this threat into action, given our understanding of the inevitability of our subsequent destruction and our readiness to go for it
          B - The number and proportion of carriers that he will be able to destroy, based on the potential that he managed to place at our borders
          In the event of an unsatisfactory result for him (A - great, the threat is real; B - insufficient for acceptable damage), the enemy WILL DECIDE TO RETREAT.
          As we can see, as the potential for a preventive strike deployed by the enemy near our borders increases, it will indeed become more and more difficult for us to take advantage of the threat of the use of nuclear weapons.
          In the limit - the enemy himself will strike this blow when the potential on our borders is sufficient.
          That's the whole point.
          The threat of a nuclear war on US soil, in my opinion, is the only way to stop and reverse the continued accelerated increase in the presence of the US and NATO on our borders, which means (if the enemy is not a fool) the accumulation of disarming strike potential.
          If I'm wrong - what other means can stop this?
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          3. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
            Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 23 2022 00: 13
            0
            B - The number and proportion of carriers that he will be able to destroy, based on the potential that he managed to place at our borders

            Get well.
            B - the probability of the complete destruction of the decision-making centers on the use of strategic nuclear weapons, based on the potential that he managed to place at our borders.
            Think so
          4. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 23 2022 00: 33
            -7
            Quote: Alexey Davydov
            If I'm wrong - what other means can stop this?

            You're not right. On all counts.
            In Europe, there are no means capable of neutralizing the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation. Free-falling bombs can hardly be called means with a minimum flight time. All sorts of minetmen and tridens, starting from the territory of the United States or from under the water of the oceans, have a minimum flight time.
            The Perimeter system will launch a retaliatory strike even if there is no one to make the decision.
            Our borders have nothing, absolutely nothing, capable of destroying at least something from the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation.
            For the last 30 years (excluding the last two months), the US presence in Europe has been declining.

            There are no means in the world capable of destroying the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation
            1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
              Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 23 2022 09: 57
              0
              I will answer what is worth the answer.

              The Perimeter system will launch a retaliatory strike even if there is no one to make the decision.

              The "Perimeter" system is a double-edged sword, it is dangerous not only for the attacker, but also for the defender - because its algorithms have limitations, and the action is irreversible.
              Its activation probably occurs only during the threatened period. In peacetime, it is disabled.
              Like any security system, it has a threshold. Its “sensors” have their own algorithms with their own limitations.
              In other words, like any weapon, it is NOT ABSOLUTELY, and has vulnerabilities.
              The states have accumulated rich experience in multi-domain (complex) operations all over the world, when the war with the enemy is going on at once on several "boards" (military, informational, political, economic, using the "fifth column", etc.). Remember how the Americans won the war in Iraq.
              On our borders, they accumulate a rich "constructor" of various elements for such operations, including on our territory.
              The task of overcoming this security system is a normal task for modern military planning.
              It's easier - you can't give in to the enemy step by step with impunity, relying only on a "miraculous" piece of iron.
              1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 23 2022 15: 55
                -2
                Quote: Alexey Davydov
                The "Perimeter" system is a double-edged sword, it is dangerous not only for the attacker, but also for the defender - because its algorithms have limitations, and the action is irreversible.

                What nonsense? Is your system not working? Where did you get it from?

                Quote: Alexey Davydov
                States have accumulated rich experience in multi-domain (complex) operations around the world

                Against the nuclear powers? What for example. Yes, they are afraid to touch North Korea.

                Quote: Alexey Davydov
                On our borders, they accumulate a rich "constructor" of various elements for such operations, including on our territory.

                Are you sure that this "constructor" is not in your fantasies? What, for example?

                Quote: Alexey Davydov
                The task of overcoming this security system is a normal task for modern military planning.

                Where do you take it from? Do you invent it yourself? If surrounded by GDP through one CIA agent, then there probably is a chance. And so some fantasies.

                So what about flying time? Did I get you?
      2. friar Offline friar
        friar (K.O.) April 23 2022 11: 06
        +1
        Do you think the loss of just one cruiser should lead to a nuclear catastrophe throughout the world? Moreover, the loss occurred due to the inept actions of the command, as well as the loss of the BDK. It was necessary to think of adjusting the cruiser to the distance of defeat by the coastal complex, knowing that the enemy had such an opportunity. This is a war and there will be losses, they can only be reduced by skillful actions of the command. Look at the losses at the beginning of the Finnish war. However, the conclusions were drawn, the tactics were changed and the goals were achieved. With what fright should we use nuclear weapons even in a tactical version? This can lead to an uncontrolled chain of consequences, up to the complete destruction of the world. War is not going on on our land, nothing threatens our country. We ourselves started this operation with certain goals, and so far these goals are being achieved and nothing catastrophic has happened. At the same time, no matter how blasphemous it may sound, this operation is an invaluable experience for the Armed Forces and an opportunity to assess the combat capability of the army and the professionalism of the command.
        As for the supply of NATO countries to Ukraine - this is reasonable and was quite expected, what's new here? Afghanistan was also stuffed with weapons against the USSR, nothing - they didn’t hit the USA, although the USSR Armed Forces were much more powerful and potentially could even fight with the NATO bloc even without nuclear weapons. And in North Korea, in general, our pilots and air defense participated, the Americans suffered huge losses and did not use or even threatened nuclear weapons against us.
        And you and people like you are ordinary alarmists who, with a small situational defeat, are immediately ready to destroy the whole world and themselves at the same time, while not understanding at all what they are talking about. Look at history, we have lost local wars more than once, but over the years we were able to assess the defeat, draw conclusions, revive and return the favor to the enemy. This is normal and this happened not only with our country.
        Just like the normal rivalry of blocs, powers and empires, including economic pressure and restrictions. It has always been in history and will be in the future, you should not be surprised at this.
        In general, such comments are striking, how sometimes it is funny and at the same time scary to see such opinions. Ready to smash the whole world into dust with an unknown result. What will you achieve with this?
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 23 2022 16: 12
          -5
          Quote from friar
          However, the conclusions were drawn, the tactics were changed and the goals were achieved.

          Well, as if not. Not a single goal set by the troops was achieved.

          Quote from friar
          Afghanistan was also stuffed with weapons against the USSR, nothing - they didn’t hit the USA, although the USSR Armed Forces were much more powerful and potentially could even fight with the NATO bloc even without nuclear weapons.

          How many people consider the war in Afghanistan one of the main reasons for the collapse of the USSR.

          Quote from friar
          And in North Korea, in general, our pilots and air defense participated, the Americans suffered huge losses and did not use or even threatened nuclear weapons against us.

          Like not again. The United States was preparing to launch a nuclear strike on Siberia, MacArthur publicly threatened to use nuclear weapons against China.

          Quote from friar
          In general, such comments are striking, how sometimes it is funny and at the same time scary to see such opinions. Ready to smash the whole world into dust with an unknown result. What will you achieve with this?

          With both hands! +100500
    2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 22 2022 16: 43
      -10
      Why do you want to die so much?
    3. Valentine Offline Valentine
      Valentine (Valentin) April 22 2022 16: 45
      0
      Quote: Alexey Davydov
      The author of ALL our problems is the States.

      To avoid these problems with the United States and NATO, we need, as I wrote here earlier, to "throw" missiles from nuclear weapons along the border between Poland and Galicia from north to south, without touching a single square meter of Polish territory, and make radioactive "veil" along the indicated border, and this distance to us will be 500 kilometers, so our losses will be minimal, but there will no longer be any infrastructure for the delivery of new weapons to Bandera. Galicians, because the Poles are no longer brothers to us and not " partners", and the local "wind rose" in most cases favors us, as they say, the wind is blowing, we are blowing, there is no wind, home ......, and most importantly, after this action, all EuroUSA will quietly sit on their ass, and they will think and analyze what happened for a long time, because we did not attack anyone from the NATO countries, about what is happening in Ukraine is our business with her, neighborly, we will fight with the "scuffle" and then it will be seen what and how. But not these same people are sitting in our General Staff, and they have heads on their shoulders, and such "cats Asia" NWO they must calculate a thousand rows ahead before starting it.
      1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 22 2022 19: 05
        -6
        Quote: Valentine
        To avoid these problems with the United States and NATO, we need, as I wrote here earlier, to "throw" missiles from nuclear weapons along the border between Poland and Galicia from north to south, without touching a single square meter of Polish territory, and make radioactive "veil" along the indicated border, and this distance to us will be 500 kilometers, so our losses will be minimal, but there will no longer be any infrastructure for the delivery of new weapons to Bandera.

        Don't you understand how crazy this is?
        1. Valentine Offline Valentine
          Valentine (Valentin) April 22 2022 19: 22
          +5
          And what happened in Ukraine since 2014, or even earlier, you consider the norm, but the fact that the United States bombed Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, etc., countries that are rebellious to them, is okay for you of things? Madness is their "Anaconda Loop" around Russia, and this will not lead to good
          1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 22 2022 23: 17
            -8
            Quote: Valentine
            And what happened in Ukraine since 2014, or even earlier, you consider the norm

            It depends on what you compare it to. Nuclear bombing is definitely not comparable. From 2014 to 24.02.2022/3.5/XNUMX, approximately XNUMX thousand civilians from both sides of the demarcation were killed in the Donbas.

            Quote: Valentine
            the fact that the United States bombed Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, etc., countries that are rebellious to them, is this in the order of things for you?

            Do you want to surpass the USA in non-normality?

            Even if we put aside the moral aspect of this action, then you need to turn on your head. Look at your leisure map of radioactive contamination after the Chernobyl disaster. At least a third came from Russia. I remember how near St. Petersburg the dosimeter was popular with mushroom pickers and berry pickers. And it will be hundreds, if not thousands of Chernobyls.
            1. isofat Offline isofat
              isofat (isofat) April 24 2022 22: 40
              0
              Oleg Rambover, not to surpass in abnormality, but to defend against abnormal ones. laughing
      2. Binder Offline Binder
        Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 20: 06
        -9
        Quote: Valentine
        slam with TNAB missiles along the border between Poland and Galicia from north to south

        And you naively believe that such a step will not be followed by an appropriate reaction? fool
        1. Valentine Offline Valentine
          Valentine (Valentin) April 22 2022 20: 47
          0
          And what could be the reaction of Ukraine at the current stage?
          1. Binder Offline Binder
            Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 21: 04
            -10
            Here you will have to deal not with Ukraine ...
            1. isofat Offline isofat
              isofat (isofat) April 22 2022 22: 11
              +1
              Binder, who, in your opinion, can support the Nazis? laughing
              1. Binder Offline Binder
                Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 22: 31
                -12
                What kind of Nazis are we talking about? Ukraine is supported by most of the world's states.
                1. isofat Offline isofat
                  isofat (isofat) April 22 2022 22: 46
                  +1
                  Binder, we are talking about the Nazi Bandera, who captured part of Ukraine. For eight years, Ukrainians have been forced to shoot at each other.
                  I repeat the question, who do you think will support the Nazis? laughing
                  1. Binder Offline Binder
                    Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 22: 57
                    -11
                    What kind of Nazis can we talk about in a state whose president is an ethnic Jew who won the general election? And the hypothetical use of nuclear weapons by the Russians during the current confrontation will undoubtedly provoke retaliatory actions from the US and NATO.
                    1. isofat Offline isofat
                      isofat (isofat) April 22 2022 23: 18
                      +1
                      Binder, Orthodox churches, believers and their supporters in Ukraine are persecuted and destroyed. Synagogues in Ukraine are not touched.

                      Jews and Nazi-Bandera coexist perfectly together. This is a serious reason to take a closer look at our recent past, the twentieth century.
                    2. isofat Offline isofat
                      isofat (isofat) April 22 2022 23: 39
                      +2


                      Binder, Mikhail Khazin says there are enough Jews supporting the Nazis in Ukraine. laughing
                      1. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 01: 34
                        -7
                        Mikhail Khazin may not even give such a thing ...
                      2. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 23 2022 12: 15
                        +1
                        laughing This is not an argument.
                      3. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 14: 43
                        -6
                        The opinion of M. Khazin is also not true.
                      4. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 23 2022 16: 03
                        +1
                        Binder, here's the truth - the Jews of Ukraine get along well with the Nazi Bandera.



                        2014, the beginning of the civil war in Ukraine. TV of Ukraine.

                        You must know who is the chairman of the community of Jews, this is Mr. Kolomoisky. laughing
                      5. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 17: 13
                        -6
                        And where is the "Nazi-Bandera"? The Jews of Odessa come to the defense of the territorial integrity of the state of which they are citizens.
                      6. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 23 2022 18: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                        The Jews of Odessa stand up for the defense of territorial integrity...

                        ... and at the same time, in Odessa, burned people alive, because they were against the Nazis who seized power in Ukraine. laughing

                        The civil war began. sad
                      7. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 18: 45
                        -6
                        Did the Jews burn too? request
                      8. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 23 2022 19: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: Bindyuzhnik
                        Did the Jews burn too?

                        The Nazis burned. The Jewish National Battalion was formed by the Jewish community. The president is also Zelensky.

                        Binder, do not doubt! The Jews, along with the Nazis, find a common language. Khazin is right. laughing
                      9. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 20: 52
                        -7
                        Dear, everything is clear to me and Khazin, if you want to believe nonsense, it’s up to you.
                      10. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 23 2022 22: 06
                        0
                        Binder, will you reveal to me the reason why Mikhail Khazin became a liar with you? love laughing
                      11. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 22: 16
                        -6
                        Oh, I didn’t become like that, he’s like that in life, I have nothing to do with it. hi
                      12. isofat Offline isofat
                        isofat (isofat) April 23 2022 22: 29
                        +1
                        Binder, the holiday is coming soon. Try to lie less and slander other people. hi
                      13. Binder Offline Binder
                        Binder (Miron) April 23 2022 22: 51
                        -5
                        Our holiday ended the day before yesterday, and yours do not concern me.
  • Peace Peace. Offline Peace Peace.
    Peace Peace. (Tumar Tumar) April 22 2022 22: 57
    0
    Right.
  • Yuriy88 Offline Yuriy88
    Yuriy88 (Yuri) April 22 2022 13: 07
    +4
    in fact, it turns out that we have a fleet on the Black Sea and there was not! Maybe not as sad as in Ukraine, but still .. There is no fleet! What did they think, how they planned .. a mystery .. A dozen "boats" with Caliber and 2-3 large landing ships (one already drowned, another 2 were on fire ..) Where is the fleet then?
    1. Dingo Offline Dingo
      Dingo (Victor) April 22 2022 16: 23
      +4
      The yachts of the nouveau-riche oligarchs are our fleet ...
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 13: 45
    +6
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    What should we do now with the same Romania? Crash "Caliber" on its military airfields? It's easy, but that's just it will be direct military aggression against a NATO member, which will entail the application of Article 5 of its Charter on the right to collective defence.

    The problem is deeper.
    If Romania were the cause of everything, it would be natural and reasonable to consider a blow to it. They hit and forced to retreat. However, this will not give anything, and this is not about NATO.
    Romania is the same "weapon" of the States as Ukraine. To fight against her, and limit herself to this, is also stupid.
    The author of ALL our problems is the States.
    They need to be dealt with.
    Do you think we are unable to do this? So what? Does this make the impact on Romania, Poland and Ukraine effective?
    We will not avoid a collision with the States. Trying to avoid this wastes our precious time and resources. It's just stupid. They still have the war for Kaliningrad, the Japanese war for the islands, etc.
    We will still have to face the States preparing for war, having already used up all our resources of time and energy.
    This is what they are leading us to.
    Someone once said:

    There are no hopeless situations - there are situations from which you still do not like the way out

    Don't drag it out - "BYE"

    Higher aviation education does not allow us to understand that the war with the United States, if it happens, will be waged not with tanks and Grads, but with strategic nuclear weapons, which we still have intact.
    In the European theater of operations, tactical nuclear weapons. Not a single unit of this device has been used up. The main thing for you is to speak out, and there at least do not dawn. The nature of that war will be completely different - there will be a war not until victory, but until complete annihilation. And the costs of the war will be completely unaccounted for. In them, costs, all meaning will be lost.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Peace Peace. Offline Peace Peace.
      Peace Peace. (Tumar Tumar) April 22 2022 23: 03
      0
      Well, it's better than a world without Russians.
  • korosun Offline korosun
    korosun (MP) April 22 2022 13: 48
    +1
    create a military headquarters "marzetsky" and you can drain the water laughing
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 14: 09
    +3
    After the defeat of the Donetsk group, the fighting will move to the west. Odessa will be taken, and air defense and missile defense systems will destroy any flying iron, whether it is Ukrainian or not. Isolation from the sea will make it impossible to overcome the no longer Ukrainian strip from the south. Romanian, German, American airplanes will all crash. Haven't you noticed that the West is silent about the destruction of a transport aircraft in the Odessa area? You cannot claim ownership. Then you need to do something about it. And to do is to wave your fists in front of the Russian Armed Forces is scary. Therefore, it is better not to notice. So, we are going the right way, comrades.
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 20: 00
      -8
      Quote: dub0vitsky
      Haven't you noticed that the West is silent about the destruction of the transport aircraft in the Odessa region?

      Naturally silent, because no aircraft was destroyed. yes
      1. Ulysses Offline Ulysses
        Ulysses (Alexey) April 22 2022 22: 00
        +3
        Naturally silent, because no aircraft was destroyed. yes

        Shooting from the pavilion "Mosfilm" ??

        1. Binder Offline Binder
          Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 22: 27
          -7
          This photo is about nothing.
          1. Ulysses Offline Ulysses
            Ulysses (Alexey) April 22 2022 22: 34
            +2
            This photo is about nothing.

            At least piss in your eyes .... laughing
            Although they were killed along the way themselves, when trying to lift the old junk into the air ..

            1. Binder Offline Binder
              Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 22: 47
              -7
              This is lying to you. Here, too, you are trying to bring the flight accident to the topic. You would at least think a little - the destruction of a Western aircraft was announced, and here is a plane with a Ukrainian flag, and obviously not hit by air defense systems. You need to be more careful! (c)
    2. Peace Peace. Offline Peace Peace.
      Peace Peace. (Tumar Tumar) April 22 2022 23: 05
      0
      At least one positive. But all the same, in Poland or Romania, it is necessary to "gasp".
  • FGJCNJK Offline FGJCNJK
    FGJCNJK (Nikolai) April 22 2022 14: 44
    +5
    The cruiser was in the Odessa region, closer to Romania! A year ago, they put a new phased array locator on it, the illumination range is 500 km! Why was he there? Ukrainian planes flew to the airfield in Romania, and from there they took off towards the sea, made a detour, and from the side of Odessa they went ashore, then flew to Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye, and struck at the Russian troops! All airfields in the area of ​​​​Nikolaev and Odessa were defeated, and therefore they could not understand where? Therefore, they drove Moscow with a powerful locator! It began to shine, and from the airfields of the Crimea and from near Donetsk, our Su 35 crests began to be intercepted, so 9 MiGs and Susheks were shot down! All this was calculated by NATO! And here is the result! First, the cruiser was hit by a drone, locators and antennas were smashed! The cruiser shot down one! But already half blind! Then Khokhols launched 2 Neptune cruise missiles from the shore! Guidance was carried out by NATO Orion, which hung over Romania, he also turned on the REP, and lit up the cruiser's air defense detection station! The missiles went to the ship, with the homing heads turned off, so that the ship would not detect the radiation beam, the guidance was carried out by Orion NATO! By transmitting the exact coordinates of the ship to the missiles! The result is 2 hits, ammunition detonation, and the cruiser began to sink!
    The story of the cruiser Moscow may have a very serious continuation. And it can take the conflict to a whole new level. The Russian Ministry of Defense has so far not said anything about the impact of the Ukrainian Neptune missile, not because it wants to hide the impact of this missile, which is shouted by all the world's media. But because, apparently, there was not a Ukrainian Neptune rocket.
    With a high probability, the cruiser Moskva was destroyed not by the Ukrainian army, but by the NATO military.
    1. The missile that hit Moscow was not Neptune, but a Norwegian anti-ship missile, which was delivered in January.
    2. Missile guidance in Moscow was carried out not by the Ukrainian military, but by officers from NATO countries.
    3. All electronic intelligence was conducted by the armies of NATO countries.
    4. All electronic suppression of Russian ships was carried out by the military resources of NATO countries.
    5. The decision to destroy the cruiser Moscow was made by officers of the NATO countries.
    6. And from Ukraine there was only the territory from which the NATO countries attacked Moscow. While on the cruiser Moscow.
    And what should Russia do now?
    Recognize that the cruiser Moscow was destroyed by NATO countries? And then Russia should declare war on NATO countries?
    Or do nothing in return? Then NATO will get a taste of it and will inflict more and more and more and more powerful blows on the Russian army. First on the territory of Ukraine. And then strikes on the territory of Russia.
    The leadership of Russia now faces such a difficult dilemma. The strike on the cruiser Moscow shows the escalation and the increasing inclusion of NATO countries in the war against Russia. NATO is just pretending that it is Ukraine that is fighting. Therefore, the Pentagon claims that it was a Ukrainian Neptune rocket. But this is apparently not the case. This is a NATO strike.
    1. Yuriy88 Offline Yuriy88
      Yuriy88 (Yuri) April 22 2022 18: 11
      +2
      since you are such a specialist, I can ask, why did Moscow have only one locator ??? And for close combat air defense, to protect against "low" anti-ship missiles ??? It turns out that the cruiser suffered because it did not have its own protection against anti-ship missiles ??? Sorry, just an old trough with a "new locator" and a bunch of their anti-ship missiles, which turned out to be not needed anywhere, at the same time with their own completely leaky air defense and the same protection against anti-ship missiles (lack of it) ?? The result is natural! Just do not think that on the other side they do not understand anything at all !!! Arrogance that does not rely on anything! By the way, the homing head may be generally passive by birth .., but the rocket will be visible on the air defense screens because it is a flying piece of iron, which also has an engine .. You can see the seagulls .., and here the missiles .. The point is technical blunders that cost the ship and the lives of sailors ..
  • leader Offline leader
    leader (Vladimir) April 22 2022 15: 07
    +2
    I am a simple person, an entrepreneur. The situation is unstable, suppliers change prices. We have them jumping too.
    Why am I? Some sellers demand lower prices because they "don't take it." Others leave, "at least they started earning." In this situation, I know best what to do with the price. Extrapolating the approach: guys, we believe the commander in chief. He knows best and possesses the greatest completeness of information.
    1. Spasatel Offline Spasatel
      Spasatel April 22 2022 20: 37
      +4
      One can recall the famous expression of Napoleon Bonaparte: "An army of rams led by a lion will always triumph over an army of lions led by a ram."
      Food for thought for you, Mr. Entrepreneur...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 22 2022 16: 37
    -6
    The remnants of the Ukrainian military aviation are based on the territory of Romania, where it flew in the first days of the NVO. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation threatened Bucharest with a finger, however, apparently, it is from the Romanian airfields that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now actively operating against the RF Armed Forces. Ukrainian fighters and attack aircraft take off from Romania, go to Odessa at ultra-low altitudes, and from there to Eastern Ukraine, where they are trying to attack the Russian army.

    Are there any proofs or so, the author's fantasies?
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 20: 02
      -9
      Fantasy at 150%.
  • TermNachTer Offline TermNachTer
    TermNachTer (Nikolai) April 22 2022 18: 42
    0
    I read it and almost cried))) the author taught geography, at least in the scope of the school course?))) S-400 deployed at Cape Tarkhankut, instantly solves all problems. Any attempt to attack a Russian ship means an automatic "thank you" from Tarkhankut.
    1. TermNachTer Offline TermNachTer
      TermNachTer (Nikolai) April 22 2022 18: 43
      0
      PS And if something similar, expand on about. Serpentine, then it will be sad for everyone else.
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 19: 20
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    Because the presence of nuclear weapons was supplemented by an unconditional determination to use it.

    No not like this. The guarantee of peace was mutually assured destruction. Everyone understood that any use of nuclear weapons would most likely lead to an exchange of nuclear strikes between the USSR and the USA, which would lead to the destruction of these countries.
    This mutually assured destruction hasn't gone anywhere, and today, no one in their right mind will attack a country with nuclear weapons.

    Did it ever occur to you that in the event of a threat of the use of nuclear weapons by the Russian Federation, the United States could launch a preemptive strike in the hope of minimizing losses?

    Optimization fails. They themselves considered that in order to destroy 80% of the population and 90% of industry, it is enough for us to bring 20 Sarmatians to the targets. More is not needed. From the hegemon, what remains of the United States will turn into a kind of Libya. And the Mexicans will shoot back the distraught former conquerors who are rushing to a clearer place. The wall built by the Americans will help with this.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 22 2022 22: 19
      -3
      Quote: dub0vitsky
      From the hegemon, what remains of the United States will turn into a kind of Libya.

      What will be left of Russia in this case?
  • InanRom Offline InanRom
    InanRom (Ivan) April 22 2022 19: 22
    0
    It is necessary to beat these Bandera nits in all directions and without exception - whether it be "the basics" in dungeons or the notorious "decision-making centers"!
    ..it’s bad that the “centers” are doing quite well, and that murky negotiations continue:

    The head of the Russian delegation at the talks, aide to the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Medinsky, held talks with the head of the Ukrainian delegation, David Arakhamia, several times a day.
    “I confirm,” Medinsky wrote on his Telegram channel, commenting on relevant media reports.

    Negotiations with the founder of the ATO aid fund, thereby stating: "that he put on a baseball cap for negotiations specifically to humiliate the Russians", "that the rejection of nuclear weapons was the biggest mistake of the first president of the country, Kravchuk, because if Kyiv had them now , they could blackmail the rest of the world." and other pearls?! What can you talk about with him and his like Natsiks and why?! Enough of Medina and others like him "like Abramovich" to "negotiate" with these insane Nazis!
    If the enemy does not surrender, they destroy him! Though on the Dnieper, even on the Black Sea, even in the Carpathian Mountains.
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 20: 21
    +1
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    Quote: dub0vitsky
    Haven't you noticed that the West is silent about the destruction of the transport aircraft in the Odessa region?

    Naturally silent, because no aircraft was destroyed. yes

    And you, of course, are a witness to everything that happens there? It's time to think about liquidation.
    1. Binder Offline Binder
      Binder (Miron) April 22 2022 22: 29
      -8
      Likbez to help you - eliminate the gaps in education. hi
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 22: 38
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: dub0vitsky
    From the hegemon, what remains of the United States will turn into a kind of Libya.

    What will be left of Russia in this case?

    And we are not stingy for the victory. There is little from the European part, beyond the Urals there will be more not destroyed. The question here is who is more cowardly. I have something to lose. and we have always been pressed by them. Our population is more spread out over the territory. They live very compactly. They are fed by 2% of the farming population with highly mechanized equipment. I would like to see how the office plankton will process the gardens with a shovel. After the destruction of JEEPIES, all their equipment will stop. We will fire up our DT-75s and plow wherever else we can. 70% of our citizens know how to live without looking at the chips built into the control systems of super-technical equipment.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 23 2022 00: 12
      -5
      Quote: dub0vitsky
      Our population is more spread out over the territory. They live very compactly.

      It is not true. The share of the urban population in the United States is 82,4% (in the villages 58 million people), in the Russian Federation 80% (in the villages 29 million people). It must be borne in mind that in the United States there are a lot of small cities up to 100 thousand.

      Quote: dub0vitsky
      They are fed by 2% of the farming population with highly mechanized equipment.

      I don't think it will matter.

      Quote: dub0vitsky
      After the destruction of JEEPIES, all their equipment will stop.

      GPS cannot be destroyed. Yes, and still the technique would not stand up.

      Quote: dub0vitsky
      We will fire up our DT-75s and plow wherever else we can.

      I do not think that you will be pleased to eat food contaminated with radiation. It won't be possible anywhere.

      Quote: dub0vitsky
      70% of our citizens know how to live without looking at the chips built into the control systems of super-technical equipment.

      The dead don't care if the technician is on the chips or not.
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    1. The comment was deleted.
  • boriz Online boriz
    boriz (boriz) April 22 2022 23: 31
    +2
    If the Armed Forces of Ukraine had combat-ready Neptunes, they would have smashed our large landing ships when they hung over Odessa. No air defense would have saved. And they hit the BDK in Berdyansk with dots.
    Moscow was hit by Harpoons, and British ones. A one-time political demarche, a response to Putin, because he sent the Austrian chancellor with his proposal (the proposal, of course, not the chancellor, he was a messenger). Since then, a double exchange of blows has already followed. Asymmetric. Toward the United States (for intelligence during an attack on Moscow) and towards the WB. True, the answer has already come from the United States. Looking forward to our next hit.
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 23 2022 00: 46
    +4
    Quote: Oleg Rambover
    Quote: dub0vitsky
    Our population is more spread out over the territory. They live very compactly.

    It is not true. The share of the urban population in the United States is 82,4% (in the villages 58 million people), in the Russian Federation 80% (in the villages 29 million people). It must be borne in mind that in the United States there are a lot of small cities up to 100 thousand.

    Quote: dub0vitsky
    They are fed by 2% of the farming population with highly mechanized equipment.

    I don't think it will matter.

    Quote: dub0vitsky
    After the destruction of JEEPIES, all their equipment will stop.

    GPS cannot be destroyed. Yes, and still the technique would not stand up.

    Quote: dub0vitsky
    We will fire up our DT-75s and plow wherever else we can.

    I do not think that you will be pleased to eat food contaminated with radiation. It won't be possible anywhere.

    Quote: dub0vitsky
    70% of our citizens know how to live without looking at the chips built into the control systems of super-technical equipment.

    The dead don't care if the technician is on the chips or not.

    Don't be happy and don't be angry. Everything is destroyed, including satellites. Do they need those left and rotting alive individuals who cannot live without diapers? For a liter of gasoline there will be a showdown with the use of machine guns and small artillery. Ground reference points will make them useless if at least Russia turns them off on its territory. Accuracy deteriorates many times over. Degradation, and in a year they will all be silent. Check out Dead Man's Letters. In my opinion, this is the most credible nuclear winter fantasy. One has only to stop long-distance fighters, and life in the states will turn into survival. Dependence on the network functioning of industry, housing and other more vulnerable than in the semi-independently existing little urbanized cities and towns of Russia.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 23 2022 01: 36
      -6
      Why rejoice? Why are there so many divorced people like you? And you, God's man, think not to die? Empty hopes. Your reasoning is naive. Your nationalism is ridiculous. Cities will turn into radioactive ash, no matter how urbanized they are, how much their inhabitants looked at the chips. And here and there, the whole territory will be infected. There will be no summer. It is not a fact that humanity will survive this, but you are worried about how the Americans will fight for a liter of gasoline. He was going to start the tractor ... what are you going to fill it with? All transport hubs in cities.
      Well, what kind of whim is it to dream of arranging a nuclear apocalypse "we will not be stingy for victory", if only the Americans feel bad? You're healthy?
      Great movie Letters from a Dead Man. And now strain your imagination, and imagine that his actions take place in the cities of Russia. And how will it be in the remote corners beyond the Urals, you can watch the film "On the Last Shore". Not as beautiful as in Australia, but the result is the same.

      And about GPS, satellites at an altitude of 20 km. At such a height, no one can shoot down yet. Yes, and GPS is not as critical for guidance as it is painted.

  • Siegfried Offline Siegfried
    Siegfried (Gennady) April 23 2022 04: 24
    0
    where are the SAS located in Lviv? We need to drive them all over Ukraine with calibers
  • kalita Offline kalita
    kalita (Alexander) April 23 2022 10: 32
    0
    I think ours are not fools like this, risking the most expensive type of military equipment like ships and exposing the side of the ships to the attack of Khokhlyatsky missiles.
  • Apollo Offline Apollo
    Apollo (Alekh) April 24 2022 00: 46
    +1
    You do not need to be seven spans in your forehead to understand that the scientific and military potential of Ukraine, which it inherited after the collapse of the USSR, has not gone away. And the world-famous Yuzhnoye Design Bureau (developer of the Satan microbrand) is quite capable of creating more complex and long-range carriers than the Neptune anti-ship missiles, about which there is a lot of information on YouTube, including the developer. But inflated self-esteem does not allow Russians to leave the orbit of parallel reality and stop lying to themselves.
  • Aleksandr56 Offline Aleksandr56
    Aleksandr56 (Alexander) April 24 2022 11: 43
    0
    Quote: Bindyuzhnik
    What kind of Nazis can we talk about in a state whose president is an ethnic Jew

    The Jew Soros was in the SS, but this is apparently different?
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