Russia may start producing parts for Boeing and Airbus


After the countries of the Western world imposed anti-Russian sanctions at the end of February, and the aircraft manufacturers Boeing and Airbus announced their withdrawal from the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Industry and Trade began to think about the further normal functioning of the air transportation industry in Russia. Currently, steps are being taken to comprehensively assess what the fleet of domestic airlines needs and what the capabilities of the Russian aircraft industry are to meet these requests.


It became known that on April 14, Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Oleg Bocharov sent a letter to his colleague from the Ministry of Transport, Igor Chalik, in which he asked air carriers and service companies to provide information on the range and quantity of required spare parts for airliners. After that, the Federal Air Transport Agency, on behalf of Chalik, sent relevant requests (letters) to industry firms. The newspaper reports "News"referring to copies of documents.

The Ministry of Industry and Trade wants to find out what parts are needed for hundreds of Boeing and Airbus aircraft, whether it is possible to manufacture them in the Russian Federation and whether it is advisable at all. The ministry will make the final assessment jointly with the Agency for Technological Development (part of VEB RF).

It should be noted that this is the fourth such letter, as previous responses did not satisfy the department. The Ministry of Industry and Trade not only asks to send data on the needs of companies for specific spare parts with the appropriate specification, the department wants to receive at least five original parts for 3D scanning in order to make a full-fledged study of the composition of the material and determine the strength properties of the product. Previous responses to the ministry were "printouts of accounting or logistics programs" from which it is impossible to assess production prospects, which was highlighted in the latest document sent by the department.

This indicates that the Ministry of Industry and Trade does not leave hope for the possibility of independently manufacturing in Russia the required parts for foreign aircraft remaining in the Russian Federation, because Boeing and Airbus refused to provide spare parts. The profile Russian companies only need to fulfill what is stated in the letter, which they received signed by the deputy head of the Federal Air Transport Agency, Oleg Storchevy. They themselves should be interested in this, because otherwise the matter will not budge and will remain only good intentions.
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  1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 14: 45
    0
    I think that this is not so.
    It is impossible to establish the production of most spare parts for "foreigners" (and there are millions of them). there is no technical and technological documentation of the developer and manufacturer, which is a utopia to recreate without the participation of the developer, even for one spare part, only on the basis of its measurements and analysis.
    Establishing the production of the entire, or a significant part of the range of spare parts is comparable to the production of an entire aircraft, and this is the second utopia.
    A spare part released "blindly" on the basis of an irresponsible interpretation of the results of measurements and analyzes of the material, not verified by calculations for force, temperature and vibration loads and deformations in the subsystem, which did not pass the cycle of bench tests in its composition, and many other "not", for which the developer of this aircraft is needed - not suitable for use on an aircraft, because has unknown reliability.
    The issue of spare parts is a matter of technology for designing, testing and serial production of aircraft. Spare parts are a natural product and the result of this responsible process, which is carried out by the manufacturer.
    Issues directly related to passenger safety should be decided not by merchants and financiers, but by aviation industry specialists with the participation of aviation safety experts.
    Otherwise - after this "cut" we can see a cascade of plane crashes and stalling into a national crisis. In our current situation, we only lack this
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 15: 16
      +4
      We need to produce our own planes. This is the only way out, and we need to focus on it.
      "Foreigners" - stretch out as much as they can on the cannibalism of details. For them, this is the only way out.
    2. Omas Bioladen Offline Omas Bioladen
      Omas Bioladen April 19 2022 17: 09
      -1
      Naja, Sie Ubertreiben. Man kann auch selbst erproben oder sich Erfahrungen dazukaufen.
    3. Roman Mitin Offline Roman Mitin
      Roman Mitin (Roman Mitin) April 19 2022 18: 05
      +2
      Well, not really...
      It is clear that if some plant, whose specialization is the production of frying pans, is ordered to manufacture some kind of hydraulic drive for the release of the flap, then with a probability of one hundred percent this unit will not be made. But if the same hydraulic drive is given to a plant that manufactures the same hydraulic drives, for example, for the IL-76, it is highly likely that the hydraulic drive will be mastered ... I think that such motivation can be traced in the decisions of the Ministry of Industry and Trade.
      1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 19: 47
        0
        But if the same hydraulic drive is given to a plant that manufactures the same hydraulic drives, for example, for IL-76, with a high degree of probability the hydraulic drive will be mastered ...

        After all, this is not about the ability to produce an imported part, but about the fact that the part does not yet exist as an object of production.
        There is a detail taken from the aircraft - a "pig in a poke" for the designer, who needs, according to measurements and analyzes, to restore the decisions made by another designer - an ordinary participant in the process of creating this aircraft. That designer had reasons for these decisions, a powerful array of developments from a multi-year process of joint design, testing, working with manufacturers.
        Where will our poor designer get all this from? And if he does not have this, how will he make these decisions and take responsibility for the lives of crews and passengers?
        The spare part will turn into a replicated grenade with a pulled out pin and a jammed fuse.
        When and where it explodes is unknown.
        I, an engineer in aviation instruments and automation by education, worked in a company that created and tested navigation systems for passenger aircraft, I still love aviation and feel involved in its problems. The idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbproducing spare parts without contacting the aircraft manufacturer according to their "sample" for me is a technical wildness
    4. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 18: 13
      +1
      Time is military, and we need to be prepared for the fact that strategic mistakes in choosing ways to solve problems can now be invented in the West and intentional, i.e. wrecking
  2. Observer2014 Offline Observer2014
    Observer2014 April 19 2022 14: 55
    +2
    Lord, let at least produce all this Boeing. In general, no one is against it. The laws of the world no longer apply. The one who can be right is right. So if you can... We're all listening.
  3. Peace Peace. Offline Peace Peace.
    Peace Peace. (Tumar Tumar) April 19 2022 15: 02
    +1
    The Military Space Complex must have the technology and equipment for the production of such and similar parts. Accordingly, with tests in all possible loads and modes. I think they can do it, because the missiles they made fly and even export.
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 15: 06
      +1
      To test a single structural detail, the rest of the structure in which it is located is needed. Plus - a database of modes from the design and testing phase. Plus - test benches specially designed for the design conditions of the designer. All this is available only from the developer and manufacturer.
      In other words, to recreate a single part, you need to go through all the stages of design, testing and mass production.
      So it was when Tupolev copied, but actually REDESIGNED the B-29 bomber, creating his Tu-4 on this model. Three years. The output is a Soviet serial aircraft, well, spare parts to boot
      1. Scharnhorst Offline Scharnhorst
        Scharnhorst (Scharnhorst) April 19 2022 23: 35
        +1
        By and large Hamburg account you are right. But let's get back to reality and to the homespun truth. If we consider an aircraft as a car, then by and large, with proper operation, it mainly needs "consumables" and rubber in the broadest sense of these words. No one proposes to make an analogue (copy) of an engine for a Boeing or a wing for Yerbas. But the production of filters, oil seals, light bulbs, in the end, is real. And 50/50 analogues can be better than the original. When modernizing, manufacturers themselves can abandon their earlier decisions in favor of someone else's alternative. This is how the B-60 has been flying for 52 years, on which the manufacturers themselves do not produce original (in the sense of the original) systems and assemblies.
        1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 20 2022 10: 07
          +1
          There is no talk of light bulbs, interior trim parts and other trifles that do not work in structures and systems.
          The problem is precisely in the replacement of actively working and loaded parts, to which a certain resource is assigned by the manufacturer based on tests. They not only fail, but also must be replaced after the exhaustion of this resource, because, as a result of metal fatigue, they lose the necessary reliability. For landing gear parts, for example, this is the number of landings. In the aircraft, its entire structure, the drives located in it, the mechanization of the wing, the landing gear, and the electro- and hydro-mechanical systems are actively working and deforming. The array of such spare parts is also huge. Their forms are complex, they have clearly localized areas of metal hardening, tolerances and fits for connection with others and the rest of the structure, areas of special processing, often all of their material is modified.
          Similar loads, but already electrical and interference, are experienced by all electro-radio-electronic equipment and avionics. Compatibility of all their elements and blocks of equipment as part of the complex has been ensured.
          All this diversity of one spare part is the result of hundreds of specific decisions made by their designer as a result of long-term joint work on the entire aircraft, testing its components, correcting errors, etc.
          It is impossible to come to these decisions based on their research and analysis, the accuracy of which is not intended for blind copying. Creating a toolkit and methodology for such replication is in itself a design and testing task to determine the reliability of the method. The task is idiotic.
          The game is not worth the candle.
          It is better to direct these forces to increase the production of our own aircraft.

          This is how the B-60 has been flying for 52 years, on which the manufacturers themselves do not produce original (in the sense of the original) systems and assemblies.

          And we would not have problems if Boeing cooperated with us in this matter.
          1. Peace Peace. Offline Peace Peace.
            Peace Peace. (Tumar Tumar) 14 May 2022 17: 31
            0
            You are too pessimistic. What details of mechanization have some kind of "alien" technology, the Lord is with you. Everything can be done, know the limit loads and that's it. But with engines, yes, there is something to think about. I think they will find solutions in the military-industrial complex, the main thing there is the composition of the metal.
    2. Omas Bioladen Offline Omas Bioladen
      Omas Bioladen April 19 2022 17: 10
      -1
      Genau richtig.
  4. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) April 19 2022 16: 05
    -2
    I will ride the train.
  5. Georgy Klochkov Offline Georgy Klochkov
    Georgy Klochkov (Georgy Klochkov) April 19 2022 16: 31
    +2
    The comment about the impossibility of manufacturing spare parts for foreign aircraft does not stand up to scrutiny. The principles of aircraft construction are the same everywhere, and therefore the working conditions of each part are known to specialists. The composition and physical characteristics (hardness, elasticity, compressive strength, etc.) are also not a big problem. Problems appear in the implementation of manufacturing technology, but the solution of these problems is only for the benefit of our science and industry. I will say moreover, we have brought up a whole class of wretched noobs who are sure that all Russians are stupid and incapable of anything ....
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 16: 49
      0
      Of course, every piece of civil engineering sanitary ware works under known and standard conditions.
      Each detail of the aircraft, together with its design, experiences loads and deformations inherent only to this aircraft, its place in its structure and this flight mode. Therefore, the working and testing conditions of each part are individual.
      Most are tested as part of subsystems and systems, the operating conditions of which are also individual
  6. whitebeard Offline whitebeard
    whitebeard April 19 2022 16: 38
    +1
    I wrote about this from the very beginning of the air pandemonium)) After all, it is clear that you won’t last long on one air cannibalism, and the pace of production of your own aircraft will be too low before the start of serial production of the MS-21 and SSJ-100new. Therefore - the production of those spare parts that we can quickly produce ourselves (i.e., primarily from the AVISMA range) + parallel supplies from China and other countries + (in extreme cases) cannibalism. With the gradual expansion of the range of production of spare parts, because it is clear that for a long time Western aircraft will quantitatively remain the main fleet, and ours until at least 2024 will compensate only for the "Westerners" who have died due to cannibalism, because production capabilities will not allow more.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  7. Gaersul Offline Gaersul
    Gaersul April 19 2022 18: 58
    +3
    Welcome all. This article made me laugh a lot. Excuse me, but on what equipment is it all released? Where are the local machines? Not just assembled in Russia, but assembled from Russian components. Where are they? In our production, all equipment is imported, of course there is Belarusian, but it is also based on imported components. Ah, I beg your pardon, there is a 74th installation in the amount of one piece, but forgive me, it is the same age as me, it was released under the USSR. It is urgent to solve the problem of import substitution in the machine tool industry, not to set up a talking shop, as it has been going on since 2008, but to get down to business, urgently!
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 19: 04
      +2
      You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, this applies to our entire industry, incl. defense. In particular, this applies, of course, to the production of domestic aircraft and components.
      Probably, the problem has not yet become acute, but will grow. It must be solved now, to recreate the domestic machine tool industry. This is time and capital investment in the development of the country. This, by the way, and new jobs
      1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 19: 26
        +1
        This, by the way, and new jobs

        Incl. to retrain the useless "office plankton" into engineering personnel. The state is already creating schools for this
    2. Georgy Klochkov Offline Georgy Klochkov
      Georgy Klochkov (Georgy Klochkov) 10 July 2022 09: 45
      0
      In order for the Russians to get down to business, it was urgently necessary to come up with an NWO. Of course, it is not a fact that Russia will stand and win this fight, but it has a chance to survive. If the stupid and greedy West had held Russia in "friendly embrace" for another ten years, then it itself would have disintegrated into several raw material appendages.
  8. Siegfried Offline Siegfried
    Siegfried (Gennady) April 19 2022 19: 05
    +2
    there was news that Henkel was leaving the Russian market. These are many brands of household chemicals and cosmetics. There is no doubt that the company was forced to do this, given the range of products that are in demand in Russia and the cancellation of which can cause dissatisfaction. For Russian manufacturers, the window of opportunity to replace Western products, for example, in the same cosmetics, may become not just a reproduction of products that are close in quality. If you start, you can create your own, purely Russian points of difference, creating products of a different quality, properties that could become the birth of Russian brands with the prospect of conquering the markets of Asia, Africa and other available ones.

    In Russia there is a strongly developed closeness to the "natural", to substances and properties from nature, to a lesser extent from chemistry. Of course, it is cheaper to replace the product through copy production, perhaps even on the same production sites. Create your own, Russian, with a distinctive feature from world analogues, in order to conquer not only the Russian market in the future, but also enter the world market. Many industries have such a chance today.
  9. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 19 2022 22: 56
    -2
    haha
    next to the article "Russia may leave Boeing and Airbus without landing gear and spars"
    that is, Russia continues (and does not start, as here) "itself to produce parts for Boeing and Airbus."
    There is PR, sanctions, promises, but in reality: "an embargo on the export of Russian titanium will be" unacceptable ""

    The chain is such that it cannot be abruptly interrupted. And if wisely, then you can somehow agree, which is also the subject of articles. As others bypass agree.
    1. Scharnhorst Offline Scharnhorst
      Scharnhorst (Scharnhorst) April 19 2022 23: 41
      0
      I agree. No one wants to slip into subsistence farming, tea is not the Middle Ages.
  10. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 00: 59
    0
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    I think that this is not so.
    It is impossible to establish the production of most spare parts for "foreigners" (and there are millions of them). there is no technical and technological documentation of the developer and manufacturer, which is a utopia to recreate without the participation of the developer, even for one spare part, only on the basis of its measurements and analysis.
    Establishing the production of the entire, or a significant part of the range of spare parts is comparable to the production of an entire aircraft, and this is the second utopia.
    A spare part released "blindly" on the basis of an irresponsible interpretation of the results of measurements and analyzes of the material, not verified by calculations for force, temperature and vibration loads and deformations in the subsystem, which did not pass the cycle of bench tests in its composition, and many other "not", for which the developer of this aircraft is needed - not suitable for use on an aircraft, because has unknown reliability.
    The issue of spare parts is a matter of technology for designing, testing and serial production of aircraft. Spare parts are a natural product and the result of this responsible process, which is carried out by the manufacturer.
    Issues directly related to passenger safety should be decided not by merchants and financiers, but by aviation industry specialists with the participation of aviation safety experts.
    Otherwise - after this "cut" we can see a cascade of plane crashes and stalling into a national crisis. In our current situation, we only lack this

    Why did you decide that the reproduction of SOME parts will not be accompanied by testing? Do you think that in our aircraft industry everyone is a fool, and they don’t know that there are less important parts that have little effect on reliability? Smearing means and tricks in acquiring everyone is stupidity. According to Soviet standards, type tests are carried out even on our own products, with a change in material technology, and a long break in production? Who canceled them? And the TYPICAL program and methodology provides for long-term and comprehensive tests. Believe me, if the question is put in this way, then the parts and assembly units in which we have the appropriate competencies will be selected.
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 20 2022 10: 47
      0
      Do you think that in our aircraft industry everyone is a fool, and they don’t know that there are less important parts that have little effect on reliability?

      In aviation, there are very few such details. Catastrophes occur even from the failure of video equipment in the passenger cabin.
      They don’t keep idiots in the technological chain of the aircraft industry - it’s more expensive for themselves, but managing it is a completely different matter and everyone knows this.

      According to Soviet standards, type tests are carried out even on our own products, with a change in material technology, and a long break in production?

      Explain to me, a Soviet aviation engineer, this passage of yours, and his attitude to the "blind" copying of spare parts of "foreigners"
  11. jekasimf Offline jekasimf
    jekasimf (jekasimf) April 20 2022 01: 02
    +1
    The most problematic node in the aircraft is the engine. Producing parts for someone else's engines is nonsense. NO.PD-14 is unified with Pratt & Whitney engines for installation and fastening. The MS-21 aircraft was designed for both of these engine options ...... So it is necessary to speed up its finishing as much as possible, as well as the PD-8.
  12. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 01: 03
    0
    Quote: Siegfried
    there was news that Henkel was leaving the Russian market. These are many brands of household chemicals and cosmetics. There is no doubt that the company was forced to do this, given the range of products that are in demand in Russia and the cancellation of which can cause dissatisfaction. For Russian manufacturers, the window of opportunity to replace Western products, for example, in the same cosmetics, may become not just a reproduction of products that are close in quality. If you start, you can create your own, purely Russian points of difference, creating products of a different quality, properties that could become the birth of Russian brands with the prospect of conquering the markets of Asia, Africa and other available ones.

    In Russia there is a strongly developed closeness to the "natural", to substances and properties from nature, to a lesser extent from chemistry. Of course, it is cheaper to replace the product through copy production, perhaps even on the same production sites. Create your own, Russian, with a distinctive feature from world analogues, in order to conquer not only the Russian market in the future, but also enter the world market. Many industries have such a chance today.

    In VERY short terms, they do not understand that they are removing the pressure of competition from our recipes and technologies. Long live the sanctions! We will take the components of cosmetics in the same India. Having a thousand-year culture in the production of these things. Where do these henkels come from.
  13. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 01: 09
    -1
    Quote: Gaersul
    Welcome all. This article made me laugh a lot. Excuse me, but on what equipment is it all released? Where are the local machines? Not just assembled in Russia, but assembled from Russian components. Where are they? In our production, all equipment is imported, of course there is Belarusian, but it is also based on imported components. Ah, I beg your pardon, there is a 74th installation in the amount of one piece, but forgive me, it is the same age as me, it was released under the USSR. It is urgent to solve the problem of import substitution in the machine tool industry, not to set up a talking shop, as it has been going on since 2008, but to get down to business, urgently!

    And what is the difference between the machines on which we have been making the same blades for the turbines of our aircraft for a long time? Are they functionally different? And what, you can’t compare the metal of their glands with ours, and decide whether our material is suitable for COPYING them? If you have never stood near a CNC machine, then you better not show up here. If you are not in the know, then making a controller for your machine from your elements is much easier than copying precision iron.
    1. Gaersul Offline Gaersul
      Gaersul April 20 2022 16: 55
      0
      Dear. The problem is that the machines on which most of the equipment is made are imported, or on imported components. And in order to make components - the element base, in other words, you need photolithographic equipment, which is not produced in Russia, well, except perhaps for spraying installations, but there are nuances there too. Regarding standing near the CNC machine, I suspect that you only stood near it, but did not work at all, otherwise you would be aware of the problem. So it's not for you to tell me where to appear and where not. Thank God, I am in my place and for more than a dozen years I have been putting my head and hands on creating THAT, with the help of WHAT, our army is tearing the Nazis in Ukraine to shreds, and based on the results of using THIS, I see that my work, as well as our entire team I do excellent. Sincerely (so far)
  14. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 01: 24
    0
    Quote: Georgy Klochkov
    The comment about the impossibility of manufacturing spare parts for foreign aircraft does not stand up to scrutiny. The principles of aircraft construction are the same everywhere, and therefore the working conditions of each part are known to specialists. The composition and physical characteristics (hardness, elasticity, compressive strength, etc.) are also not a big problem. Problems appear in the implementation of manufacturing technology, but the solution of these problems is only for the benefit of our science and industry. I will say moreover, we have brought up a whole class of miserable noobs who are sure that all Russians are stupid and incapable of anything.

    It's easier to just buy for subsidies donated by the state than to rack your brains over development and production. I'll tell you from my own experience. He was not connected with the aviation industry, but half a life of design work was taught to think. The approaches are the same everywhere. In any industries. How is this process going in general?
    Conditionally, two people are sitting opposite - one customer, the other - the designer. Specialists in various industries. One tries to tell the other what he wants. And they speak different languages. They don't understand shit, neither one nor the other. Usually, the designer’s patience ends earlier, and he thinks to himself, well, I’ll pump in a processor from ..... and I’ll write a program so that he, a sort of goat, HIMSELF winds what he wants. And I'll give it as a super-skillful with AI elements. And it turns out a monster that neither the designer nor the consumer can handle. And all we had to do was understand each other. And to make a simple, understandable, maintainable piece of iron with a minimum price and maximum reliability. Experience, not mine, but world experience, says that 80% of all mistakes are made precisely at the stage of setting goals. That is, at the very beginning. The feeder with subsidies for the purchase of someone else's has ended, if you want to live, you won't get so upset. We will have everything. Perhaps not the best, but quite suitable. The main thing is not to be able to beg for loot. And think for yourself.
  15. Vladimir Orlov Offline Vladimir Orlov
    Vladimir Orlov (Vladimir) April 20 2022 02: 38
    0
    Chassis and so produce. And now there is a lot of titanium for the landing gear, so part of their spare parts are already being made (only now without coordination with the headquarters of the aircraft manufacturer)
  16. Potapov Offline Potapov
    Potapov (Valery) April 20 2022 07: 51
    0
    The Chinese can, but our eyes are not narrow - we can’t ... They copied American planes, computers, toilet paper ... An attempt is not torture ...
  17. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 11: 48
    0
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    Do you think that in our aircraft industry everyone is a fool, and they don’t know that there are less important parts that have little effect on reliability?

    In aviation, there are very few such details. Catastrophes occur even from the failure of video equipment in the passenger cabin.
    They don’t keep idiots in the technological chain of the aircraft industry - it’s more expensive for themselves, but managing it is a completely different matter and everyone knows this.

    According to Soviet standards, type tests are carried out even on our own products, with a change in material technology, and a long break in production?

    Explain to me, a Soviet aviation engineer, this passage of yours, and his attitude to the "blind" copying of spare parts of "foreigners"

    Soviet aviation engineers are different. What matters is not who you are, but what you are. If you have studied the history of aviation, then the example of TU-4 should have taught you something. A real engineer will send a manager to... if he only needs a result for a report. Otherwise, he is not an engineer.
  18. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 17: 17
    0
    Quote: Gaersul
    Dear. The problem is that the machines on which most of the equipment is made are imported, or on imported components. And in order to make components - the element base, in other words, you need photolithographic equipment, which is not produced in Russia, well, except perhaps for spraying installations, but there are nuances there too. Regarding standing near the CNC machine, I suspect that you only stood near it, but did not work at all, otherwise you would be aware of the problem. So it's not for you to tell me where to appear and where not. Thank God, I am in my place and for more than a dozen years I have been putting my head and hands on creating THAT, with the help of WHAT, our army is tearing the Nazis in Ukraine to shreds, and based on the results of using THIS, I see that my work, as well as our entire team I do excellent. Sincerely (so far)

    What are you talking nonsense? Any automation can be implemented on any element base. Sensors are the problem here. And the resolution and speed of the ADC / DAC is done at 60 nanometers with exactly the same characteristics as at 16. Servers. There is no Newtonian binomial. Special guides, backlash-free, are also made on Soviet balls. The size of the cabinet does not bother anyone.
    It's not that we can't. The point is the cost of producing this unique equipment. I'll give you an example. Almost all printing equipment is made in Finland. And not because they are smart, and others are fools. They saddled this type of equipment before others, developed quality, and riveted to the whole world. To do for their country, let's say to us - in the amount of 10 pieces in 20 years - will only be either crazy or completely hungry. And they have established production and make thousands a year. They are therefore relatively cheap. Therefore, the whole world does not make micros, but buys them in Taiwan. They make 80% of all chips. BUT FROM SUBSTRATES made in Russia. So, we also buy there, but according to our topology. They do, but they cannot copy for themselves, because very NECESSARY ones are made there using programmable matrix technology. And the functions of the micro are not fully known, and they cannot mount the sur there.
    1. Gaersul Offline Gaersul
      Gaersul April 20 2022 17: 44
      0
      I have two ironclad rules: don't feed the trolls and don't argue with the boors. What I used I think is clear. So I'll cut the dialogue. You, on the other hand, can continue to live in the country of Shapkozakidaniya, where there is a powerful machine-tool industry, where there is the widest range of element base of its own production, manufactured on its own equipment, where even such a "trifle" as FPGAs are made at the click of a finger. I, however, would prefer to live in Russia, where we all have a long, hard and painstaking work to restore the industrial potential of the Motherland. But we're squeezing.
  19. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 17: 34
    0
    Quote: Gaersul
    Dear. The problem is that the machines on which most of the equipment is made are imported, or on imported components. And in order to make components - the element base, in other words, you need photolithographic equipment, which is not produced in Russia, well, except perhaps for spraying installations, but there are nuances there too. Regarding standing near the CNC machine, I suspect that you only stood near it, but did not work at all, otherwise you would be aware of the problem. So it's not for you to tell me where to appear and where not. Thank God, I am in my place and for more than a dozen years I have been putting my head and hands on creating THAT, with the help of WHAT, our army is tearing the Nazis in Ukraine to shreds, and based on the results of using THIS, I see that my work, as well as our entire team I do excellent. Sincerely (so far)

    It's amazing how food is not for the horse. To be near and even to be involved, but not to understand.
  20. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 20 2022 17: 57
    0
    Quote: Gaersul
    I have two ironclad rules: don't feed the trolls and don't argue with the boors. What I used I think is clear. So I'll cut the dialogue. You, on the other hand, can continue to live in the country of Shapkozakidaniya, where there is a powerful machine-tool industry, where there is the widest range of element base of its own production, manufactured on its own equipment, where even such a "trifle" as FPGAs are made at the click of a finger. I, however, would prefer to live in Russia, where we all have a long, hard and painstaking work to restore the industrial potential of the Motherland. But we're squeezing.

    Naturally, it was worse. And everything will be, one has only to deprive the option of acquiring ready-made abroad. If we want to live, we won't get so upset. The main thing is not to lock yourself in your tin can. Feel free to look at your surroundings and borrow without embarrassment. I had to professionally deal with civilian equipment manufactured in a department that has no boundaries. Soviet car. For those circuit solutions adopted in electrical equipment, I would have these wise men wheeled. Permissive excesses. And the price, hence, and the complexity of the settings, and the instability of work - the whole bouquet of the Soviet aviation industry. Two examples - the speed of a conveyor belt is controlled by a drive having a 1000 times control factor. Although, three times is enough. The temperature of the knives cutting the PVC film was controlled by a thermostat with a resolution of 0,01 degrees Celsius. No longer scare anyone with your ability to tear and throw. You are from this department, and you know how to tear and throw your own economy.
  21. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 21 2022 13: 02
    0
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    I think that this is not so.
    It is impossible to establish the production of most spare parts for "foreigners" (and there are millions of them). there is no technical and technological documentation of the developer and manufacturer, which is a utopia to recreate without the participation of the developer, even for one spare part, only on the basis of its measurements and analysis.
    Establishing the production of the entire, or a significant part of the range of spare parts is comparable to the production of an entire aircraft, and this is the second utopia.
    A spare part released "blindly" on the basis of an irresponsible interpretation of the results of measurements and analyzes of the material, not verified by calculations for force, temperature and vibration loads and deformations in the subsystem, which did not pass the cycle of bench tests in its composition, and many other "not", for which the developer of this aircraft is needed - not suitable for use on an aircraft, because has unknown reliability.
    The issue of spare parts is a matter of technology for designing, testing and serial production of aircraft. Spare parts are a natural product and the result of this responsible process, which is carried out by the manufacturer.
    Issues directly related to passenger safety should be decided not by merchants and financiers, but by aviation industry specialists with the participation of aviation safety experts.
    Otherwise - after this "cut" we can see a cascade of plane crashes and stalling into a national crisis. In our current situation, we only lack this

    And who said that all the details will be copied? Isn't it possible, on our plane, OUR production will put OUR engine, OUR electronics and control systems? (as an example).
    Do you want an example? At the age of 30, we copied the Fordson tractor. We dismantled 7 machines, down to the screw, measured all the details, compiled tables, and calculated the average dimensions, bringing the result into a new table. And according to these average sizes, they began to cut iron. Because then there was not only an engineering school, half of the population was illiterate. What tolerances, what landings could be discussed? Today we have an aircraft building school, and our designers are doing good things. No need to climb here with a comparison of the complexity of a tractor with an airplane. There is no such thing as COMPLEX. There is a concept - I KNOW, I CAN. If you know, then the plane becomes simple, but if you don’t know, the tractor is incredibly complex.
  22. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 21 2022 13: 29
    0
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    But if the same hydraulic drive is given to a plant that manufactures the same hydraulic drives, for example, for IL-76, with a high degree of probability the hydraulic drive will be mastered ...

    After all, this is not about the ability to produce an imported part, but about the fact that the part does not yet exist as an object of production.
    There is a detail taken from the aircraft - a "pig in a poke" for the designer, who needs, according to measurements and analyzes, to restore the decisions made by another designer - an ordinary participant in the process of creating this aircraft. That designer had reasons for these decisions, a powerful array of developments from a multi-year process of joint design, testing, working with manufacturers.
    Where will our poor designer get all this from? And if he does not have this, how will he make these decisions and take responsibility for the lives of crews and passengers?
    The spare part will turn into a replicated grenade with a pulled out pin and a jammed fuse.
    When and where it explodes is unknown.
    I, an engineer in aviation instruments and automation by education, worked in a company that created and tested navigation systems for passenger aircraft, I still love aviation and feel involved in its problems. The idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbproducing spare parts without contacting the aircraft manufacturer according to their "sample" for me is a technical wildness

    Do not write nonsense. You're just showing your absolute incompetence. Let's start with the fact that it will not be a writer, like you, who will deal with the design. and a specialist in a particular area. He knows the purpose of the elements, and he knows how to make strength and other calculations. Create a copy or make your own, it's up to him. And any design is carried out with parallel testing. First, local, then complex. By the nature of the material. he sees what technology was used for manufacturing, and in terms of dimensional accuracy, the class of processing. Analysis of the material gives the composition of the components. And the data is processed not on single samples, but on a decent amount. All sorts of information is collected from various sources. You need to know that the more complex the product, the more options for its repetition or execution at another level. And who said that the same firm, set by counter-sanctions, will not give up its decision? If not in full, then in a compromise?
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 22 2022 08: 49
      0
      I am a Soviet aviation engineer, graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Aviation Instrumentation, worked for several years in the laboratory of the LNPO Elektroavtomatika, which develops and tests aircraft navigation systems of the Tupolev Design Bureau.
      Aviation is the main and favorite part of my life as an engineer. I know its specifics well. Therefore, all your amateurish abstractions can be placed where they belong.
      In order for us to get out of this situation, it is necessary to replace the core of the management of the industry and enterprises with experienced aviation specialists - developers and production workers.
    2. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 22 2022 09: 33
      0
      Let me explain my point of view. Not for you, but for everyone else.
      It might be very difficult to do this. Here's someone else's response to one of my comments:

      Nobody will do anything. No one! Professionals who are inconvenient because they demand truth, action, work, are removed and purged for the sake of the notorious vertical of power, which requires sycophants, loyal and faithful, and most importantly, that they should not be smarter than their boss. This whole vertical is now sitting exactly on the priest, waiting for instructions from a superior, and he himself has cleared out all the smart people around him and cannot make the necessary decisions. But more than that, an empire of information lies has been created, which invents successes that are not there and hides the difficulties that are. The lack of truthful information does not allow you to soberly assess the situation and think about what is happening. The people in power in Russia are not capable of acting in the extraordinary conditions of the crisis. It’s one thing to put forward slogans, but it’s another thing to know what can be done and how, and the main thing is to choose the right resources in order to fulfill the necessary ...

      Perhaps this is so.
      BUT
      In another way, not in decades, but quickly and everywhere, in terms of mobilization, it is IMPOSSIBLE to solve all the problems with the aircraft fleet of aviation, which binds our country into a single whole.
      It is necessary to URGENTLY change lawyers and economists of the liberal market approach in the management of the industry and enterprises to honest and experienced professionals in aviation design and production.
      THE COUNTRY HAS NO TIME
  23. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 10: 23
    0
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    Let me explain my point of view. Not for you, but for everyone else.
    It might be very difficult to do this. Here's someone else's response to one of my comments:

    Nobody will do anything. No one! Professionals who are inconvenient because they demand truth, action, work, are removed and purged for the sake of the notorious vertical of power, which requires sycophants, loyal and faithful, and most importantly, that they should not be smarter than their boss. This whole vertical is now sitting exactly on the priest, waiting for instructions from a superior, and he himself has cleared out all the smart people around him and cannot make the necessary decisions. But more than that, an empire of information lies has been created, which invents successes that are not there and hides the difficulties that are. The lack of truthful information does not allow you to soberly assess the situation and think about what is happening. The people in power in Russia are not capable of acting in the extraordinary conditions of the crisis. It’s one thing to put forward slogans, but it’s another thing to know what can be done and how, and the main thing is to choose the right resources in order to fulfill the necessary ...

    Perhaps this is so.
    BUT
    In another way, not in decades, but quickly and everywhere, in terms of mobilization, it is IMPOSSIBLE to solve all the problems with the aircraft fleet of aviation, which binds our country into a single whole.
    It is necessary to URGENTLY change lawyers and economists of the liberal market approach in the management of the industry and enterprises to honest and experienced professionals in aviation design and production.
    THE COUNTRY HAS NO TIME

    And what follows from this, you are our aircraft builder with a red diploma? I already wrote that it doesn’t matter who you are, but what matters is who you are. By the panic that crippled you. as an engineer, it is clear that NO. Go, and for the idea, die. Only then can you be considered a HUMAN. Not shit. But, for this, you first need to become such a cool specialist that you can drive your manager around the corners, demanding what YOU need. I succeeded. So I'm not saying this out of complacent theorizing. The constructor is a dictator. Not a performer. To be so is incredibly difficult. But for others, it's better not to be at all.
    1. Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 22 2022 11: 28
      0
      Darling, go your way
  24. dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) April 22 2022 11: 33
    0
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    You are just a "troll". Earn your penny. Regarding injuries - go to the mirror

    Higher aviation education is not enough to defend their position. Q.E.D. Not education is the first thing in a person, but character. Education is given, but character is developed by oneself.
  25. unimog1 Offline unimog1
    unimog1 April 28 2022 09: 35
    0
    Is Khristenko still here? Didn't leave? So let's put this geek in a pillory for a day in front of cameras all over the country, answer for his words, and not only. And then all his assistant hangers-on, etc. After all, they will now "patriotically" begin to "restore" in accordance with the general line of the party. PS Who does not know what Khristenko has to do with it, do not ask, take an interest.
  26. igor.igorev Offline igor.igorev
    igor.igorev (Igor) April 28 2022 12: 35
    0
    Ravings of a madman. The author is clearly an amateur in aviation and has not advanced further than the production of carts.
  27. vlad127490 Offline vlad127490
    vlad127490 (Vlad Gor) 14 May 2022 14: 04
    0
    It may or may not be able to produce parts for A and B. Why spend money on supporting NATO air power? Make Russian planes, as in the USSR, and there will be no problems. What, another agreement with the West on the weaning of Russian money?