Lost cruiser "Moskva" the Russian fleet will be able to compensate for the almost new "Ukraine"


The Russian Navy has lost the Moskva Guards missile cruiser, which sank while being towed after sustaining hull damage. Earlier, a fire broke out on the ship, followed by the detonation of ammunition and the Moskva could not maintain stability in the conditions of rough seas.


Meanwhile, Kyiv has an almost new cruiser "Ukraine", which has been moored for about three decades at the berth of the State Enterprise "Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant". The readiness of the ship is at the level of 95 percent. It has never been used. Its capture and subsequent modernization, following the example of the Admiral Ushakov, makes practical sense, because there are not so many ships of the 1st rank in the Russian fleet.


Previously, the Ukrainian authorities considered different options for using the cruiser. Thus, Valery Ivashchenko, Deputy Minister for Strategic Industries, noted that the department may decide to demilitarize the ship, but this is economically unprofitable, since the sale of its parts will not reimburse the costs of dismantling and disposal. In general, Kyiv has not yet come to a final decision about the future of the cruiser.

Russia, conducting a special operation in Ukraine, after the occupation of Nikolaev, will be able to compensate for the loss of the "Moscow" with an almost new Ukrainian warship and put it into the service of the Navy.
  • Photos used: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) April 15 2022 12: 09
    +13
    Yes, almost a new alien Ukraine 30 years ago ...
    well said.
    Reimburse...
    - good too.

    At whose expense is the banquet (cut?), As a result, offered? )))
    1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
      sH, arK April 15 2022 15: 18
      +3
      Brad of course! Reimburse what you have long been going to throw away! "Moscow - Slava" is almost 40 years old! Yes, the ship went through a small MOT, in fact, only restoring seaworthiness, otherwise it was in a state of landing stage! And we must understand that, for example, "Kuzya" is ours - even landing stages are no longer! I remember him in 92 - on the battlefield of Murmansk - it was already a sad sight then! Half of the cabins are abandoned! Yes, he was "reanimated" in the full sense of the word - he was pulled out of the "other world", but excuse me, when a patient is pulled out of such a state, can he really be a good soldier?

      Of course, a separate song - what did Moscow do abeam Odessa, given that it was armed only with heavy anti-ship missiles, which are not needed there now?! And yes, the ship had an old, but powerful radar, although not the most modern but quite powerful air defense!
      And it is completely clear that if it was a sabotage or a mine explosion, and these are the most likely events, then extremely serious questions arise for the management of the Navy!
      If this is an anti-ship missile attack, which is hard to believe, because a single-pair launch of Neptune could break through air defense under very strange circumstances that raise another bunch of questions! Yes, targeting Neptune anti-ship missiles, it’s clear what could be done by target designation from UAVs and AWACS of NATO countries that are constantly spinning there ... But to break through air defense with two missiles ?!
      In general, there are a lot of questions, and first of all, to the command of the Navy! And the big question is how long will it last? Why did the beginning of the NWO go like this? Why did the barracks remain? What kind of giveaways? If you started a war, then fight! Why is gas transit going on? Why are government quarters intact in Kuev? And most importantly, why are all the roads, bridges, crossings, interchanges, tunnels, railway stations intact throughout Western Durkain?! Yes, even oil storage facilities and refineries, together with the tank farm and - have been destroyed today by only 50-60%? What is it like? Questions - just darkness! With the lives of our soldiers, all sorts of scum like Medinsky and Piskov are making a career for themselves ?! Decide someone's interests?
      1. Yuriy88 Offline Yuriy88
        Yuriy88 (Yuri) April 15 2022 20: 28
        -4
        Moscow - 82 years of release! No one will answer questions..! No admirals .. The Navy, which we always have, I must admit, was weak .. Only in the time of Ushakov could something else)) Who will answer for the sailors, who seem to have died under 400 people ..?! None! And what kind of flagship is this, which from one mine (as a version!) Goes to the bottom ..? It turns out that either the crew was completely stupid or the ship was just beautiful scrap metal ...
        1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
          sH, arK April 15 2022 20: 34
          +2
          Do you know how to count? 2022-1982=?
          1. Yuriy88 Offline Yuriy88
            Yuriy88 (Yuri) April 15 2022 20: 44
            -1
            sorry, really..))! On the machine .. Someone thought so, but without thinking I repeated his arithmetic ..) Well, I hope the rest of my thoughts are adequate?
            1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
              sH, arK April 16 2022 16: 02
              -1
              Who counted the dead? Khokhols?! Where did you get these numbers from? There are only a little over 500 crew! And the ship fought for survivability for a day if it were not for the storm ... Even if 2 missiles hit the ship, which is extremely difficult to believe, they could kill 30-40 people! They were on schedule, I hope! Well, let the detonation of the warhead and the fire with the full connivance of the captain - another 10-20 people could die! Those. the estimate of the dead - a maximum of 50 people!
              But I doubt the anti-ship missiles - not the Neptune missile that would easily penetrate the air defense of a group of ships, although, of course, they have been there for the second month, and it is clear that the target designation was external, and there could certainly have been a bunch of false targets such as UAVs and launching all sorts of shit from them for distraction...
              Mine?! Maybe, but I doubt it...
              But I can easily believe in sabotage or negligence that led to a fire! Although this is even much worse than a mine / anti-ship missiles !!!
      2. Milana Shvetsova (Milana Shvetsova) April 15 2022 23: 35
        +2
        The worst thing in this special operation is our guys who died due to negligence and indifference to the personnel of our military and their leader, and those civilians who fell into this inferno. The impression is that this war is not for the interests that were proclaimed, but for some kind of agreements between different representatives of the clans. Feelings of betrayal and betrayal
        1. Ignatov Oleg Georgievich (Oleg) April 20 2022 11: 29
          0
          Milana saying A and B. What specific agreements, giveaways and betrayals? Specifically, or is it just blah blah blah and slander both on the leadership of our country and on the leadership of our Armed Forces. And for such things, it seems there is already an article! So think first about what you say.
      3. Rusa Offline Rusa
        Rusa April 16 2022 12: 34
        +4
        Brad, of course. Reimburse...

        Are you an expert in this matter? )
        In China, for example, they successfully reconstructed a Soviet aircraft carrier, which now brings great benefits to the country.
        The Russian Federation can do the same with this ship in Nikolaev.
        1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
          sH, arK April 16 2022 15: 36
          -1
          Yes, special ... And he served in the Navy and worked at a research institute that made equipment for the Navy, so he was in Tbilisi (Kuznetsov) and Riga (Varyag), even saw the Ulyanovsk corps - but our research institute managed to lay only 800 km of cables in Riga, equipment, after the collapse of the USSR, he did not begin to do, although the crests offered something there, even then having the Chinese vaid ;-) I saw Kuzya already in a rather miserable state at the end of 1992 already ...
          The Varyag, firstly, was in a significantly better condition than Ukraine is now, he was not equipped, he was a skeleton. And the Chinese had one goal of buying it - reverse engineering! Learn and copy! Moreover, I saw Liaoning (Varyag) and in Dalyan (the former port of Dalniy), though already from afar and no longer having the slightest relation to either the Navy or the fleet ... a game of fate ... And in the research institute where I worked, Chinese admirals came, they wanted to buy equipment for the ship's electronic warfare, but then EBN did not give ... at the behest, do we know whose ?!
        2. The comment was deleted.
      4. Batka Makhno Offline Batka Makhno
        Batka Makhno (Batka Makhno) April 17 2022 16: 46
        0
        I agree, there may be questions about the state of the ship itself and the coherence of the team. With the "arrival" of missiles is too bold, this is not something that the Americans would hide if it were so. You may not like them, but as an opponent, they are smart, and try not to lie unnecessarily.

        It would have been different if it had been so - everywhere there would be "success" of Ukrainian warriors, all sorts of Scholts, Borelis, and others like them would go for a week - with something like the words "see? They do well without us, let's still" help " ... And the Ukrainian "Ukraine", I'm afraid, is not subject to completion, its 95%, readiness for 91-92 years, is at best 50 percent now. Of course, the fact that it is located in almost fresh, not salty water slows down the aging of the hull, but not so completely. With cable systems, they will have to be built anew, the propulsion system, just the same. Missile weapons are already outdated, different radar systems, this is the last century, such a ship needs AFAR. So if Ukraine is a "replacement", then just like "Moscow" is exclusively temporary.
        1. Rusa Offline Rusa
          Rusa April 21 2022 13: 10
          +1
          All the necessary weapons and other things can be removed from the Moskva cruiser and installed on another ship. Moreover, the depth is small and near the Crimea.
      5. The comment was deleted.
    2. Alemax Offline Alemax
      Alemax (Ivan) April 16 2022 05: 15
      +1
      There are already truncated zielis and biting.
    3. Vladimir Orlov Offline Vladimir Orlov
      Vladimir Orlov (Vladimir) April 16 2022 10: 09
      +1
      There are no other options.
      And "Moscow" will have to be raised.
      There are no others, and you can’t build quickly
      1. Victorio Offline Victorio
        Victorio (Victorio) April 17 2022 11: 38
        +1
        Quote: Vladimir Orlov
        And "Moscow" will have to be raised.

        hardly, except perhaps rockets, since the depths are small 200m. rather blow up, and the hull is already unusable.
      2. Batka Makhno Offline Batka Makhno
        Batka Makhno (Batka Makhno) April 17 2022 16: 57
        +3
        it’s better to raise your friend, in addition, you can find out the causes of the disaster, and take measures to prevent this from happening again. Even if not on this particular ship, but you need to learn from mistakes, especially your own.
      3. Rusa Offline Rusa
        Rusa April 21 2022 13: 16
        +1
        The same correct decision. "Kursk" was raised, there is experience, therefore, "Moscow" can also be raised.
        Good training for lifeguards.
  2. Valentine Offline Valentine
    Valentine (Valentin) April 15 2022 12: 10
    +10
    You see how, again, we are dividing the skin of an unkilled bear, and the Nazis will quickly send him after "Moscow".
    1. skeptic Offline skeptic
      skeptic April 15 2022 13: 25
      +5
      Quote: Valentine
      You see how, again, we are dividing the skin of an unkilled bear, and the Nazis will quickly send him after "Moscow".

      We spot - after how much time, she will go there too.
  3. forcecom Offline forcecom
    forcecom (Denis) April 15 2022 12: 10
    +3
    the author, the "almost new" "Ukraine" was laid down in 1984, and for the last 30 years it has been rotting at the quay wall, it is only suitable for scrapping, since its repair will be more expensive and longer than the construction of a new side, not to mention what is needed now completely different boards with a different filling.
    1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
      Kristallovich (Ruslan) April 15 2022 12: 59
      +4
      and for the last 30 years rotted at the quay wall

      "Admiral Nakhimov" stood at the pier for at least 18 years. However, it is now being upgraded.
      1. forcecom Offline forcecom
        forcecom (Denis) April 15 2022 13: 32
        +2
        the difference is that one was rotten almost completed with a bunch of open technological holes and nobody needed it, and the second one was battened down and at least somehow mothballed.
        1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) April 18 2022 20: 03
          0
          the modernization of Nakhimov was recognized as a financial failure, it turns out to be too expensive soup from an ax, Peter will be repaired - VTG as was done in Moscow, that is, restoring the course, and repairing weapons that can be inexpensively restored, a flag demonstrator ship, a dummy ship, for show-off and parades ..... I read somewhere unverified information that all 1164 air defenses never worked !!!! Well, in Moscow, which has not undergone modernization, and even more so, the same plan, 40-year-old Inquisitive and Ladny, the state of the Baltic frigates is unknown, fearless so for 30 years they did not receive missile weapons. Klimov writes that the air defense of the newest corvettes is useless, that it has cut and kickbacks ..... Moscow could well have been blown up by a mine because in the Navy they write 4-5 combat-ready minesweepers for 6 seas and oceans .... The fleet is totally uncombatable, huge funds are squandered to no avail on super-expensive, meaningless ships, for parades and show-offs Moscow Kuzya and UDC, but they don’t make the proper number of minesweepers (you need 70-120 yesterday) they don’t provide combat compliance of the SSBNs, the admirals simply didn’t give a damn about all the SSBNs for the sake of show-offs and parades ?, okay parquet bureaucrats with big stars, but you must at least objectively know your capabilities and not send a cruiser to certain death in areas with mines without minesweepers ...... you need to create a commission of the Moscow Region, the State Duma Committee of the Accounts Chamber and not only remove, but put the guilty admirals in the total collapse of the Navy and the ultra-high costs of it, in tactical and strategic stupidity
          1. Awaz Offline Awaz
            Awaz (Walery) April 18 2022 20: 51
            +2
            who will plant himself? Do you remember the story about conscripts, when the command of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation openly and brazenly set up the Commander-in-Chief, who only just informed the whole world that conscripts were not fighting with us, but they had already been in captivity for several days and no one reported anything to the supreme about this. WELL, I would even arrange a dressing for this and send the guilty to the camps, if one of the conscripts also died. But silent. and finding who sent it is easier than ever, since in the army everything is drawn up by order, where there is a signature and a transcript, and find out who signed it and approved the business for five minutes ...
          2. Ignatov Oleg Georgievich (Oleg) April 20 2022 11: 48
            0
            Vladimir 1155 and what do you think the costs should be. Sound the amount and immediately everything will become clear how far you are from the topic. You can't buy a box of matches for three kopecks.
            1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) April 20 2022 22: 54
              0
              repair of Nakhimov write 50 billion, senseless Kuzi write 80-120 billion ... the minesweeper Alexandrite costs less than 5 billion rubles, that is, if you sell, write off Kuzya, then you can order ...... 200 minesweepers, in any case, if you build the necessary 100 minesweepers, with an account of 20 already ordered, we get the first approximation of providing PMO fleet, and there will still be an aircraft squadron or an additional Borey
    2. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
      sH, arK April 15 2022 20: 39
      +1
      "Ukraine" - what a ship, what a state, there is only one way ... To cut ...
      1. Storm_2022 Offline Storm_2022
        Storm_2022 (Storm _2022) April 16 2022 17: 53
        0
        According to your logic, is it time for the Moscow elite to go to the bottom?
    3. Rusa Offline Rusa
      Rusa April 21 2022 13: 20
      0
      ... We need completely different boards, with a different filling

      One has already been built, which burned down in St. Petersburg. )
  4. Muscool Offline Muscool
    Muscool (Glory) April 15 2022 12: 12
    +2
    This makes no sense
  5. kriten Offline kriten
    kriten (Vladimir) April 15 2022 12: 29
    -1
    Putin's system of impunity breeds irresponsibility at every turn. The mess has already infiltrated the fleet. We drowned the flagship, so what, we will be happy with the old trough. Looks like it's time to dig out Stalin. Maybe saved? There is no hope for anyone today. They are shouting about a mobilization economy, and there are only liberals in power who need to return the stolen goods more than Russia, as an independent country .. They will achieve a lot by clamping the monetization of the economy, we will see soon .... Plans will stretch, finances will evaporate, and for failure to fulfill plans, no one ever answered us.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  6. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
    sgrabik (Sergei) April 15 2022 12: 33
    +5
    The future of our Navy is modern highly maneuverable corvettes and frigates with the most modern electronic filling and powerful hypersonic weapons, maybe it will even come to the construction of destroyers, but the old rusty ones, and as we have all seen, our Navy certainly does not need very defenseless cruisers, as it is costly and no longer effective enough.
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) April 15 2022 13: 27
      0
      Tell me, what is the fundamental difference between an old cruiser and a modern frigate and corvette? 2 missiles were enough for Moscow. The corvette will burn out from 1.
      If the sea-based air defense system is weak, and the fleet fights with aircraft, then all these corvettes, frigates, destroyers and cruisers will die ingloriously. No matter how many you build. Their destiny then is to hit Third World countries with Calibers that have neither anti-ship missiles nor aviation.
      1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
        sgrabik (Sergei) April 15 2022 16: 00
        +4
        The difference is in the cost / effectiveness ratio, the same frigate can be equipped with modern anti-aircraft missiles and modern electronic warfare systems, plus the same Zircons and Calibers, plus anti-submarine systems, and if you calculate the cost of repairs and deep modernization of the same cruiser, it becomes clear that these same money you can build some modern frigates or corvettes.
      2. AlexandrS Offline AlexandrS
        AlexandrS (Alexander Sergeev) April 16 2022 00: 04
        +2
        Where does the fantasy about 2 missiles come from?
        1. Victorio Offline Victorio
          Victorio (Victorio) April 17 2022 11: 43
          0
          Quote from AlexandrS
          Where does the fantasy about 2 missiles come from?

          to my (repeated) requests to share the primary sources, alas, I did not receive a single answer. encrypts his informants.
      3. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
        sH, arK April 16 2022 22: 06
        0
        Let me explain, there are differences - the signature, air defense systems, strike weapons, the price of the ship and the cost of maintenance.

        Minuses? Also: seaworthiness, autonomy.

        Impact capabilities are approximately equal. There is not much sense in the old P-1000, although "the old horse will not spoil the furrow", and it will plow deep, unlike the proverb!

        But the main thing is the PRICE!!! OWNERSHIP AND MAINTENANCE!
      4. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) April 18 2022 20: 16
        -1
        firstly, all these corvettes and frigates are really totally meaningless in closed sea areas (Baltic Black Caspian and Japanese) where there are coastal anti-ship missiles and coastal aviation that makes any surface ship a suicide bomber, but they are very necessary in the Barents Sea and in Kamchatka where ours is bad without them SSBNs, by the way, there is no air supremacy of enemy aircraft and there are no coastal missiles, and we will drown the AUG ourselves ...... secondly, the cruiser and destroyer are outdated in their concept, the task is too large, the tasks are too narrow, how will those that are, then do not build them anymore, but sell Kuzya to India to China, they have hundreds of frigates and have tasks for AB, and use this money to stamp minesweepers and submarines
        1. Ignatov Oleg Georgievich (Oleg) April 20 2022 11: 53
          0
          Well, yes, minesweepers, though you have to wear invisibility caps.
          1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) April 20 2022 22: 58
            0
            simultaneously with the transfer of all ocean ships to the oceans, it is certainly necessary to develop coastal aviation, and coastal missile systems in all seas and oceans, and a certain number of nuclear submarines should be left in the Black Sea Fleet and the Sea of ​​​​Japan
    2. slesarg65 Offline slesarg65
      slesarg65 (Igor Ivanov) April 17 2022 19: 59
      +2
      agree completely! Budyonny was also a good commander, but if he had led our army with a saber against tanks, we would not have won World War II. cruisers are a relic of the past, cruisers are an artillery shell against armor, this is the time to aim ten times and aim and reload and aim again. even a fast cruiser is an elephant that you have to be blind to miss. and the cruiser is not for inland seas, but for ocean expanses, for single autonomous raids, this is not an aircraft carrier that needs to be guarded by a whole fleet. But a cruiser, according to modern realities, is only to force banana republics to democracy, and if the natives have some kind of mobile missile system lying around, then the cruiser only has to plow sand from the horizon on the beach with the main caliber. and missiles are easier to place on light, nimble and cheap corvettes and frigates. if we recall the last wars, then the perfect and formidable weapon at the beginning of the war, by the end, was significantly simplified and modified - war is a costly business. although we have a defensive doctrine, but now, we had to attack, so can we immediately start with a modern and effective one?
    3. Ignatov Oleg Georgievich (Oleg) April 20 2022 09: 28
      0
      So just in case, but if Moscow repulsed the attack, would it still be an old but beautiful trough for parades?
    4. Ignatov Oleg Georgievich (Oleg) April 20 2022 09: 33
      0
      Sgrabik.
      Have you ever been on one of our warships that was rusty?
      Maybe the cruiser Moscow was also rusty?
      Think what you write!
  7. ZmikeV Offline ZmikeV
    ZmikeV (Michael) April 15 2022 12: 55
    +1
    fantasy strange
    a half-rotted case, volcanoes have not been produced for a long time, using meter-long containers for calibers is another idea.
    1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
      Kristallovich (Ruslan) April 15 2022 13: 00
      +2
      Will there be evidence of a "rotten hull"?
      1. forcecom Offline forcecom
        forcecom (Denis) April 15 2022 14: 08
        -2
        Are you ready to present counter evidence of the "ideal state" of a 40-year-old corps?
        It’s enough for me to have a personal experience of getting to know the ships of the sludge to understand what state the board is in.
        1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
          Kristallovich (Ruslan) April 15 2022 14: 09
          0
          Are you ready to present counter evidence of the "ideal state" of a 40-year-old corps?

          It was your statement, you have to prove it.
          1. forcecom Offline forcecom
            forcecom (Denis) April 15 2022 14: 47
            0
            this was not my statement, but on the whole I agree with it, since it is not the hull that suffers first, but the internal filling, cable routes, equipment and other "offal" the ship is rotten, now I am waiting for your evidence from you.
            1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
              Kristallovich (Ruslan) April 15 2022 18: 26
              0
              Evidence will be or again chatter?
              1. forcecom Offline forcecom
                forcecom (Denis) April 18 2022 08: 54
                +2
                Well, as I understand it, you are already packing your things and are ready, as soon as our troops occupy Nikolaev, to go as part of a working brigade to its shipyards and, as an installer, welder, corps builder, begin to complete the construction of a new combat unit of the Russian Navy? Or just the couch chatter of the couch analyst?
                1. Kristallovich Offline Kristallovich
                  Kristallovich (Ruslan) April 18 2022 13: 39
                  -2
                  It is better to keep your mouth closed initially if you cannot back up your words with facts.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Victorio Offline Victorio
              Victorio (Victorio) April 17 2022 11: 50
              0
              Quote: Forcecom
              it was not my statement, but in general I agree with him, since it is not the hull that suffers first of all, but the internal filling, cable routes, equipment and other "offal" of the rotten ship, now I am waiting for your evidence from you.

              Quote: Kristallovich
              Evidence will be or again chatter?

              inspection, research, assessment and conclusions on this issue are missing.
  8. akropin Offline akropin
    akropin (Alexey) April 15 2022 12: 55
    +1
    The blank for the ship is so-so, but the metal is good.
  9. 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) April 15 2022 13: 59
    +1
    There may be problems with this. The hull can and will get undamaged, which is not a fact, but there may be problems with weapons. If I'm not mistaken, the "main caliber" Volcanoes were discontinued under Yeltsin. Yes, the complex is probably already decently outdated. Converting to Caliber is not easy. The launchers are placed below deck, but here the placement is different, in inclined lump installations above the deck. In general, specialists need to look and think seriously. Is the game worth the candle. I believe the modernization of the ships of this project is not planned, the sisterships in the north and east were simply repaired.
  10. beer puff Offline beer puff
    beer puff (Igor Trabkin) April 15 2022 14: 37
    +2
    At one time, Zelensky himself examined Ukraine and asked questions about the possibility of putting this missile cruiser into operation. But the admirals around him shook their heads: "Ukraine" is scrap metal.
  11. Binder Offline Binder
    Binder (Miron) April 15 2022 15: 05
    -5
    Here, gentlemen, the disputants of different opinions about the cruiser standing in Nikolaev, express: it’s worth reanimating it, it’s not worth it ... At the same time, they somehow lose sight of the fact that the cruiser in Nikolaev, which the Russians did not take, and whether they will take it is a big question . bully
    1. sgrabik Offline sgrabik
      sgrabik (Sergei) April 15 2022 16: 29
      +2
      Miron, let's take it unequivocally, it's only a matter of time, for us it is as fundamentally important as for you the issue of confrontation with Iran.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  12. 1_2 Offline 1_2
    1_2 (Ducks are flying) April 15 2022 15: 37
    0
    I propose to make a cruiser out of Mordashev's yacht while he hides it in Vladik
  13. boris epstein Offline boris epstein
    boris epstein (Boris) April 15 2022 15: 49
    +1
    Velikoukry have already sunk one ship - "Saiga Dachny". They will also flood UkraDina so that Russia does not get it. Yes, and for sure there the equipment for so many years is not only outdated, but also stolen. So, you probably shouldn't count on it.
  14. special correspondent (oleg) April 15 2022 16: 54
    +2
    what kind of nonsense this author writes ... It's not like cruisers there - gas stations "live" rarely remain. And that Nikolaev cruiser, in the event of an attack on Nikolaev, will be burned and flooded three times.
  15. Milana Shvetsova (Milana Shvetsova) April 15 2022 23: 25
    -4
    The death of the Moscow missile system looks like a betrayal, and what kind of nonsense is the detonation of ammunition on board? Again invented stories justifying someone's military actions. If this is a detonator explosion, then this is sabotage and nothing more. In general, I do not expect anything good from our leadership, except for betrayal.
    1. slesarg65 Offline slesarg65
      slesarg65 (Igor Ivanov) April 17 2022 20: 17
      0
      detonation is generally such a dynamic process, not necessarily associated specifically with a detonator - an element of a projectile-shot. and its purpose is to explode, but at the right time and in the right place, but detonators are a capricious thing. Japanese shells filled with shimoza (trinitrophenol) were more dangerous for their shooters than for the enemy. The detonator is designed so that it is safe in storage, it rises to the combat platoon during the shot, and is triggered by contact or by time. But he can get on a combat platoon not when fired, but, for example, when falling. but the shooter won't know it. and the operation will occur at the moment of the shot and will kill the shooter and damage the gun and the ship. ak in the Black Sea is now a storm! That is, it may not be a betrayal or sloppiness, but a combination of circumstances, an accident. a projectile-charge during a storm tore off the mounts, a blow and a badabum!
      ps: explosives generally tend to decompose over time. In my memory, there was an urgent case during the autumn check with firing from a 120mm howitzer. the shells were stored in boxes in the open air, the charges became damp, a slow shot occurred, after the descent, the detonator went off, and the main propellant charge did not explode, but began to burn slowly. it looks like a bug. the shooter opened the shutter, the projectile came out of the breech and then exploded, 5 200x ...
    2. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) April 18 2022 20: 27
      +1
      40-year-old ammunition, for example, a volcano, is prone to all sorts of problems and detonation ... in one form or another, it means they should have been disposed of on time, but the death of the cruiser is at least the sloppiness of the admirals, as a maximum a crime of treason, I suppose, I hope the investigators will find out everything and punish specific guilty hereditary parquet admirals
  16. IC Offline IC
    IC (PM) April 16 2022 00: 20
    +1
    Ukraine has long been scrap metal. No need to fantasize.
    Since WWII, it has become clear that large ships in the Baltic and Black Seas have nothing to do during hostilities. They are easily destroyed by aircraft and coastal missile systems.
  17. Zolotko Vitaly Offline Zolotko Vitaly
    Zolotko Vitaly (Zolotko Vitaly) April 16 2022 06: 58
    +1
    Blessed memory of RRC "glory"
  18. Vladislav_2 Offline Vladislav_2
    Vladislav_2 (Vladislav.) April 16 2022 07: 33
    -2
    Not even funny! How can it be almost new - an ancient ship that has been hanging and rotting at the quay wall for 30 years? Yes, the Admiral Lazorev TARK is in better condition than this junk. I hope the lesson with "Moskva" has gone to good use and we will not build ships of the 1st rank without heavy armor. Modern shipbuilding is a mistake, air defense cannot replace armor ...
  19. juri gagarin Offline juri gagarin
    juri gagarin (George) April 16 2022 07: 40
    +1
    La russia spende per le armi sei volte meno che europa e stati uniti insieme. Quindi per ogni arma che viene costruita in russia ne nascono sei in occidente. inoltre in occidente la spesa militare incide molto meno che in russia sui bilanci complessivi degli stati e la vita ė migliore infatti i ricconi russi hanno barche, ville e palazzi in occidente e non in siberia.

    Russia spends six times less on weapons than Europe and the United States combined. Therefore, for every weapon that is built in Russia, six are born in the West. in addition, in the West, military spending affects the general budgets of states much less than in Russia, and in fact, Russian heroes have boats, villas and palaces in the West, and not in Siberia.
    1. Vladimir1155 Offline Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 (Vladimir) April 18 2022 20: 30
      0
      Russia does not go to overseas bases, .... and the budget rule has also been canceled, we no longer pay tribute to the Americans! gas and oil prices have risen so all is not lost
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
    Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 16 2022 09: 30
    0
    The cruiser that still needs to be captured is the skin of an unkilled bear. Of course, he will be blown up to zakhat.
    As for the loss of "Moscow", I will give the opinion of Sivkov, respected by me:

    “The loss is very tangible, I want to say right away without equivocation. In fact, our fleet has lost a third of its potential in the far sea zone. The Black Sea Fleet had four modern ships capable of operating in this far zone, having powerful modern weapons: three frigates and the cruiser Moskva. Despite the fact that it was built in 1982, it is already 40 years old, it has powerful weapons that meet modern requirements. The combat range is about a thousand kilometers. He has a powerful Fort air defense system, the world's first multi-channel system, the Americans have never had anything like this. He has 64 of these missiles on board. And, of course, this is a serious loss for our fleet, a serious one. The reasons must be dealt with, the perpetrators must be punished, this is unambiguous, ”the captain urged.
    Nothing can replace the cruiser, since Turkey has blocked the straits for the passage of ships, a military analyst noted.
    “You can no longer replace him. Turkey, taking into account the current situation, blocked the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, and secondly, in other theaters of military operations, such ships are also needed. In the Barents Sea, in the zone of the Northern Fleet, there is a much more dangerous enemy. There is a whole 62 US fleet. And to have such a cruiser - in my opinion, "Marshal Ustinov" is located there - is a must for us. In the Pacific, the picture is the same. We can’t take them from there,” Sivkov concluded.

    I remember a muddy story with the death of the battleship "Empress Maria" - remember "Kortik"?
    From myself I will say - so we will not win much.
    While we are in Ukraine, with our best troops and weapons, we are grinding the "scrap" of Western armies, our main enemy will not even be touched by us. He is calmly completing the development of modern weapons, preparing for a real war and expanding NATO.
    1. AC130 Gunship Offline AC130 Gunship
      AC130 Gunship (Gennady) April 19 2022 04: 47
      0
      It is only unclear why Sivkov, against the backdrop of recent events, stubbornly writes about the cruiser Moscow in the present tense?
      1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 19 2022 10: 11
        0
        We are all humans. An old military sailor in a war, when every ship is needed, still "doesn't turn his tongue" to talk about the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet in the past tense. The head knows, but the soul has not yet accepted
  22. Pavel57 Offline Pavel57
    Pavel57 (Paul) April 16 2022 10: 37
    0
    The main thing is to get Ukraine safe and sound. And modernization can be carried out in Nikolaev, anyway, it will be necessary to load the industry of Ukraine (or whatever it will be called) with orders.
    1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
      Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 16 2022 13: 49
      0
      So we expect to complete the campaign, restore what was destroyed and start production in the former Ukraine. And why do we think that the States will let us do it. Why do they need it?
      They still have trump cards up their sleeves. They did not use Poland. They will impose on us a war for Kaliningrad with NATO, and then - for the islands in the Far East with Japan. Or both at the same time.
      At the same time, unlike us, as now, they will not waste their resources. They will earn.
      To stop their advance, we need to influence them.
      1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 16 2022 14: 29
        0
        As for the minus.
        I also don’t like this reality at all, but in order for this not to happen in reality, something must really be done about it.
      2. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) April 16 2022 14: 45
        0
        They are also testing in Ukraine the height of our "barrier" to the use of nuclear weapons in response to the creation of a "threat to the very existence of the state" (total sanctions, transport blockade, theft of all assets, NATO's participation in the war against us, etc.), the value of which can be determined them only experimentally - step by step.
        In other words, the absence of appropriate warnings from us allows them to calmly move on to the next, more serious step.
        It turns out that by the lack of an appropriate reaction, we involuntarily encourage their further offensive
        1. Pacquale Pestrini (Sergei) April 18 2022 21: 40
          -1
          We already say the same thing in Estonia. That the Russian army turned out to be a zilch, where are those weapons from the parades? They say there are even no camouflage nets for artillery and tanks .... so the Estonians will no longer be afraid. Finns and Swedes gathered in NATO, they know nothing will happen to them for this .... some kind of scribe
  23. Ulysses Offline Ulysses
    Ulysses (Alexey) April 16 2022 19: 00
    +2
    Meanwhile, Kyiv has an almost new cruiser "Ukraine", which has been moored for about three decades at the berth of the State Enterprise "Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant". The readiness of the ship is at the level of 95 percent.

    Thirty years ago it was.
    Now it's a floating, rusting hull with rotten communications, worthless in every way..
  24. JD1979 Offline JD1979
    JD1979 (Dmitriy) April 17 2022 20: 41
    +1
    The same as advising yourself to go dig up a woman in a cemetery, instead of getting a new one. The author is not engaged in necrophilia.
  25. Trifonov Evgeny Offline Trifonov Evgeny
    Trifonov Evgeny (Trifonov Evgeny) April 18 2022 09: 06
    +1
    The article is simply amazing. When will we have insight? We lost the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet .... Yes, and ... With him. So what?
    We lost one, we'll get another tomorrow. Yeah, Mriya has already been taken. And the cruiser will hand over the APU to us on a silver platter and with coloring flags.
    Maybe, instead of bravura speeches, we will begin to fight bungling and slovenliness, but not like Ilf and Petrov, but for real. Our people are persistent, but you can’t ride out in their shoes all your life. How many boys died, how many more will die?
  26. AC130 Gunship Offline AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship (Gennady) April 19 2022 04: 42
    0
    You may not be aware, but Ukraine recently decided to send this ship for scrap. There, for almost 40 years, everything has rusted and rotted. It will be cheaper to build a new one from scratch. Moreover, there is a concept of reducing ships that do not carry carrier-based aircraft. A great example of price / quality is the URO frigates of the US Navy. A large vessel, but without air defense cover, is a great target for the enemy ...
  27. Ignatov Oleg Georgievich (Oleg) April 20 2022 09: 48
    0
    Almost everyone here is talking about the fact that this ship is rotten, outdated, costly for - not repairs, but modernization in general for the latest weapons, etc. etc. Or maybe it’s easier to listen later (if there are such assessments at all) of specialists, but you can’t pretend to be experts in everything that’s boom-boom! It will be necessary to do it on a completely different base - they will do it and none of you will be asked for advice.