Having lost Airbus and Boeing, Russia will have to transfer to Soviet aircraft


From the very collapse of the USSR, our systemic liberals constantly told us fairy tales about the “invisible hand of the market”, about the “correct” democracy in the West and the “wrong” one here, about the fact that Russia does not need any of its own production, and we will buy everything we need abroad for petrodollars, and foreign exchange earnings should be invested only in "reliable foreign assets." And now, 31 years later, we can see with our own eyes what these stories are worth, and at the same time it would be nice to take a fresh look at the bearers of liberal ideas in the Russian government.


For example, within the framework of sanctions “for Ukraine”, the supply of a number of electronic products using American Technology. The United States and the European Union decided to block the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation located on their territory. The Airbus aircraft manufacturing corporation is considering the possibility of withdrawing from Russia all aircraft of its production, which account for about half of the entire domestic aircraft fleet. If the American Boeing, which accounts for the second half, follows its example, then our country will suddenly be left completely without air traffic. Hello to all liberals in the Russian government!

The situation is extremely serious. The domestic fleet is represented by about 800 aircraft of American and European production. All of them were purchased under a leasing scheme, so the lessor has the right to demand their return. If this is done, a no-fly zone will be established over Russia without any war, since there will be almost nothing to fly on. So far, experts advise not to panic ahead of time, since the simultaneous appearance of 400 to 800 used aircraft on the market will bring down prices and make new aircraft from Airbus and Boeing unclaimed. It is possible that with the "partners" it will be possible to agree only on a ban on the supply of new liners to our country. This will be the lesser evil for all parties.

However, as the Russian military operation in Ukraine progresses, the likelihood of the most severe sanctions scenario is continuously increasing. And then what are we to do? In fact, there are only two scenarios.

In the first, our air carriers obediently return leased aircraft and close their business. Russia is left without a sky, and we will have to move around the vast country by rail and road.
In the second scenario, we refuse to give up the planes. It turns out ugly, but what can you do. Such is the answer for blocking the assets of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation abroad.

This will mean that the liners will be left without repair and maintenance and will be considered "stolen" in the US and the EU, where they will be closed. The option is also so-so, since it means the actual isolation of Russia from the foreign sky. In fact, this is a prolonged agony, because without spare parts, the resource of the available Airbus and Boeing aircraft will be fully developed a little earlier or later, and the result will be the same. However, we may need this time to solve the problem of civil aviation on our own. What can we really count on?

Our "constructors"


From what is real, this is a short-haul liner "Sukhoi Superjet-100". So much has already been said about his problems with foreign components that there is no point in repeating. It should be noted that work on the bugs nevertheless began, and the government announced the development of its version called the Sukhoi Superjet New, in which the share of imported components should be reduced to 3%. The production of the "Russified" liner is expected in 2024.

The main problem of the current version of the Superjet-100 is its PowerJet SaM146 engine, created jointly with the French company Snecma. With a high degree of probability, it can be expected that the EU will prohibit the supply of components necessary for the production of the power plant, and the aircraft will simply have nothing to fly on. A promising PD-8 engine is being considered as a replacement for the Sukhoi Superjet New, which should be certified in 2023 and go into production only in 2024.

Our second "Great White Hope" is a medium-haul liner MS-21. Fortunately, the share of imported components in it is much less than in the Superjet-100, and the engine is its own, native PD-14, on the basis of which, by the way, the PD-8 is being developed. The start of serial production is promised for 2022, however, it should be remembered that the production volumes of the first years will be small and will increase gradually. It is also not yet clear whether it was possible to completely replace all imports of avionics and electronic equipment, the supply of which we were actually denied a few years ago. It was reported that the Ministry of Industry and Trade purchased a large number of components for future use, which are now used, but it is clear that mass production cannot be established on warehouse stocks alone.

Let's hope that the task has already been solved without unnecessary noise and dust, otherwise the matter may drag on. Are there any other alternatives?

Soviet past


The most interesting thing is that Russia has its own medium-haul liner Yes, and a long time ago. This is the Soviet Tu-204/214, a direct competitor of the MS-21. This liner has all certificates necessary for flights abroad. Unlike the "constructor", it was designed and created entirely on the domestic component base. The only “claim” to him is that his PS-90A engine is more “gluttonous” and noisy than modern American and European ones. For this reason, all Russian airlines refused to operate the Tu-204/214.

But let's ask ourselves a question, what will happen if our country is left without foreign aircraft at all? Will it matter how much kerosene the PS-90A burns? At the same time, nothing prevents the installation of modern PD-204 engines designed for the MS-214 on the Tu-14/21. Why not? Left without aircraft at all, it will be necessary to use all available capacities in order to start producing our own as soon as possible.

By the way, good news is that the production of the Tu-204/214 is still underway, albeit in small batches. That is, the component base has been preserved, there is no need to urgently restore anything with foam at the mouth. Take it and do it.

We have something from the Soviet legacy for long-distance highways. This is the Il-96 wide-body airliner. Fortunately, its small-scale production has also survived, since it is a "presidential" aircraft, which flies the head of state and the minister of defense. The entire component base remained intact. Why limited edition? Because this liner has 4 PS-90A engines installed at once, which make its commercial operation not very profitable. It is not customary to spare money for the flights of the first persons.

But then again, imagine the prospect of being completely without planes. The most reliable liner, assembled from domestic components, capable of carrying over 400 passengers at a time, would probably come in handy. At the same time, no one bothers at the first stage to produce Il-96-400 with old engines, then replace them with 4 modern PD-14s, and in the future - with heavy-duty PD-35s, 2 pieces per aircraft.

Thus, we have some options even if Airbus and Boeing take their aircraft from Russian airlines. It turns out that the path of the "scoop" turned out to be more correct than that of the liberal.
97 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
    Just a cat (Bayun) 1 March 2022 19: 06
    +4
    Where did Mr. Marzhetsky intend to fly if the European Union blocked air traffic? Where will the Europeans and Americans fly on their Boeings if Russia has blocked its skies, the price of fuel is rising, and maybe the supply of titanium can be stopped? For domestic airlines, smaller transport is used. The production of ILs is in the long term and it is not known how the sanctions game will end for the same Europe. Europe runs the risk of entering next winter without gas. They will put their Boeings on a joke. In Ukraine, they have almost laid a land route to Transnistria, bombed a TV tower in Kiev and promise to leave the entire Ukraine without the Internet.
    1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 1 March 2022 19: 23
      +4
      Where did Mr. Marzhetsky intend to fly if the European Union blocked air traffic? Where will the Europeans and Americans fly on their Boeings if Russia has blocked its skies, the price of fuel is rising, and maybe the supply of titanium can be stopped?

      Do you only fly to Europe? Is this where your world ends?

      Where will the Europeans and Americans fly on their Boeings if Russia has blocked its skies, the price of fuel is rising, and maybe the supply of titanium can be stopped?

      Wherever they want, they will fly there.

      For domestic airlines, smaller transport is used.

      Come on?

      Europe runs the risk of entering next winter without gas. They will put their Boeings on a joke.

      Two very dubious and unrelated claims.

      In Ukraine, they have almost laid a land route to Transnistria, bombed a TV tower in Kueva and promise to leave the entire Ukraine without the Internet.

      How does this relate to the topic of the article?
      1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
        Just a cat (Bayun) 1 March 2022 19: 25
        -3
        We'll see how your next prediction comes true in a couple of weeks. laughing
        1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 1 March 2022 19: 27
          -1
          My predictions are coming true. Take a look at a number of recent articles. hi
          And here's the topic:

          The world's leading manufacturers of engines and spare parts for aircraft have ceased cooperation with airlines from Russia. This may lead to the impossibility of maintenance of Airbus and Boeing aircraft in the near future.

          Russian carriers have received notices from the world's leading manufacturers of aircraft engines, components and spare parts for aircraft about the termination of cooperation. RBC was told about this by five sources in airlines.

          Thus, the engine manufacturer CFM International notified them of the suspension of all deliveries of aircraft parts to Russia. This is stated in a letter from CFM Customer Support Manager Mark Varange, which was sent on Sunday, February 27th. RBC has a copy of the letter, whose authenticity was confirmed by sources in two airlines. RBC sent a request to CFM International.

          CFM International is a joint venture between GE Aviation (a US division of General Electric) and Safran Aircraft Engines (France). Its main products are aircraft engines. Russian airlines use about 800 CFM56 engines. They are equipped with the most popular Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 aircraft among carriers. RBC sent inquiries to the press services of CFM, Aeroflot, S7, Pobeda, Russia and Ural Airlines.

          https://www.rbc.ru/business/28/02/2022/621ca5b19a794761d397e37b
          1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
            Just a cat (Bayun) 1 March 2022 19: 30
            +1
            what a pity ... at the same time, the bmw concern said they all went to hell and opened their own plant in kaliningrad ... the boeing almost disappeared from the market once already. I’ll repeat myself in a couple of weeks and look at your forecasts and the actions of the listed companies and brands.
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
      akarfoxhound 1 March 2022 19: 39
      +6
      To Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky 9 hours of summer. Do you suggest walking?
      1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
        Just a cat (Bayun) 1 March 2022 19: 45
        -6
        you'll be shocked on the train. the vast majority do not fly to Kamchatka twice a week. well, or surrender to the Americans. in any case, the fleet will not be updated with Russian aircraft in the coming days.
        1. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
          akarfoxhound 1 March 2022 20: 10
          +6
          Firstly, for "poking" - I don’t remember that I drank with cats on a burdeshaft.
          Secondly, tell 400 thousand Kamchadals "you will be shocked", even once a year, preferably in person, then do not forget to share your impressions.
          Well, Kampot is a bit of a geographical outlook: the railway ends in SovGavan, there are no even unpaved roads to the peninsula. According to the stories, in tsarist times, around in the winter on dogs for 3-3,5 months (curvimeter and map in your hands). The last passenger steamer "Soviet Union" to P-K from Vladik went in 91.
          If you want to give up - a feather in the bottom! Not for panic, I'm stating the facts, but you, before bravado, you need to at least know this. I don’t need to “open my eyes” for aviation, I have been in it for 30 years, military, now GA. My opinion on the situation is written below in the comments, you should be careful with "advice"
          1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
            Just a cat (Bayun) 1 March 2022 20: 16
            -4
            Listen, "nobleman", even if you burst out of anger here and curse the entire leadership of Russia to the seventh knee, you still won't be driven tomorrow to replace a Russian-made Boeing. There are no cooks in the leadership of Russia and airlines. find a way out. And there is no need to shake "orders" in front of me. they may turn out to be fake.
            1. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
              akarfoxhound 2 March 2022 13: 32
              +1
              March cat tantrum? It happens laughing laughing laughing
              1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 13: 36
                +1
                Will you transfer to IL, "flyer" with a pay cut, or will you go to the Luftwaffe for a Boeing?
                1. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                  akarfoxhound 2 March 2022 15: 07
                  0
                  Well, about such a short list of interests from you and assumed ...
                  Not everything in the world, like the rootless fleas, is limited to March orgies, the desire to devour sweetly and mark someone else's territory. Come to terms with this thought wink
                  1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                    Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 15: 12
                    -1
                    Self-critical laughing Your March op into the void, I have already read below. "comrade" Poghosyan is probably now frantically inventing bigger planes? laughing people like you should have yelled louder when Ford appeared in Russia instead of Rusobalt, Sikorsky left for the USA with his inventions, Zhiguli were made on the basis of fiat, etc. Why didn't they yell? nebylo would now be ashamed of the domestic auto industry.
                    1. akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
                      akarfoxhound 2 March 2022 21: 33
                      0
                      Yes, yes ... a cat's rut ​​of hormones, paralyzing to a climax of a monosyllabic thought to an opponent at the level: "I'm a fool myself" ... I understand everything from a third-party look ... wink neighbor has the same howling now...
                      As Shakespeare said in the sixth sonnet: "Vasya, it will pass by April!" laughing
                2. faiver Offline faiver
                  faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 17: 44
                  0
                  well, Il-62/86/96 as a passenger was very satisfied with me, and now, together with them, the 737th trams fly in the lion's share ...
                  1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                    Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 17: 46
                    0
                    "flyers" were not satisfied ... it came to buying diplomas for a Boeing.
                  2. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
                    Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 3 March 2022 12: 47
                    -2
                    You can still fly them to North Korea!
                    1. faiver Offline faiver
                      faiver (Andrei) 4 March 2022 04: 49
                      0
                      for the especially gifted - open the map of the country and calculate the distance from the same Moscow to Chukotka, Kamchatka, Sakhalin and Vladik. Planes are needed not only for flights abroad, and people live beyond the Urals ....
                      1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
                        Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 28
                        0
                        and what do you mean by that? There are aircraft owners - they have contracts for these aircraft - these are not even airlines). Contact them. They have their own view of what is happening.
            2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
              gunnerminer (gunner miner) 2 March 2022 15: 59
              -6
              There are no cooks in the leadership of Russia and airlines. find a way out.

              For 30 years they have been looking for that way out. laughing
              1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 16: 01
                0
                China didn't even start... like 99% of the countries. Maybe the Indians are inventing their long-haul aircraft?
                1. faiver Offline faiver
                  faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 17: 45
                  0
                  how did it not start?
                  1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                    Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 17: 55
                    0
                    short and medium range. The situation is about the same as ours. "Kamchadals" will not be satisfied. the largest C919. flight range up to 5550 km.
                    1. faiver Offline faiver
                      faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 17: 58
                      0
                      they designed a copy of the b-707, then the 929 ...
                      1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                        Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 18: 01
                        0
                        so they are not physically there and there is no localization. hodgepodge from all over the world.
                      2. faiver Offline faiver
                        faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 18: 03
                        0
                        but they started bully
                      3. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                        Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 18: 18
                        0
                        One of the issues to be resolved remains the choice of engines. To date, ready-made options from GE and Rolls-Royce are being considered. At the same time, the Russian PD-35 with a thrust of about 35 tons will become an alternative for the future, but it will have to wait. “The PD-35 program involves the creation of a high-thrust engine with a completion date for development work in 2027. The engine is being developed to offer it for the CR929 wide-body long-haul aircraft. We are at the stage of negotiations with the Chinese side on the configuration of this program. Much will depend on the work on the aircraft, ”said Yury Shmotin, Deputy General Director - General Designer of the UEC, in an interview with RIA Novosti in September 2019.

                        in Russia they are developing a center section and wing panels with mechanization, and in China - the fuselage and plumage. Also, Russian engineers will be responsible for avionics and control systems. As part of the project, a decision was made to establish an engineering center in Russia.

                        one fig is based on Chinese money and the sales market, and Russian brains.
                      4. faiver Offline faiver
                        faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 18: 20
                        0
                        everything is so, why should they invent great ...
                      5. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
                        Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 18: 27
                        0
                        It's not about the size, it's about the market.

                        Currently, only Boeing and Airbus are present on the long-haul aircraft market. The CR929, designed to carry 250-300 passengers, is planned to be more efficient, economical and comfortable than competing aircraft - the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350. At what stage is the project now, why Russian aircraft manufacturers needed cooperation with China to create an airbus, and how the Russian aviation industry can keep its secrets and technologies from being copied, Maxim Litvinov, chief designer of the CR929 from the Russian side, told Forbes in an interview.
                        - It is not rational for us to do this on our own. When the country's leadership set the task of creating such an aircraft, the United Aircraft Corporation conducted a market analysis and came to the conclusion that in the period from 2023 to 2045, air carriers will need 7200 such aircraft, of which 15% - to China, 28% - to other countries of the Asia-Pacific region. Russian demand will not exceed 5%. China is the largest market for Airbuses, a technically and economically booming country, and we have high competencies, but a small market. So the joint work on this project turned out to be beneficial for both parties.
  2. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
    Marzhecki (Sergei) 2 March 2022 06: 59
    -1
    Our cat drank valerian and is not quite adequate.
    1. Just a cat Offline Just a cat
      Just a cat (Bayun) 2 March 2022 13: 44
      -1
      Are we waiting for new forecasts taking into account new circumstances? Airline lawyers work. Issues with insurance and spare parts are being resolved.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Kedrovich Offline Kedrovich
    Kedrovich (Alexa980) 2 March 2022 04: 35
    0
    On foot. And then they run away from there, soon there will be no population left and all the neighbors will be haunted. Let them develop the country there, and on trains, until we launch our planes.
  • Dima Offline Dima
    Dima (Dmitriy) 1 March 2022 23: 15
    +2
    To Turkey, Egypt, China, Thailand. The world is big, look how the sanctions were introduced, the Turks immediately put the largest aircraft available on flights to Russia.
  • Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
    Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 36
    -1
    You don't understand many things, alas.
    1. If Russia stops supplying titanium, well, it will stop. Then: 200 people, employees of the Russian joint venture, will be on the street without severance pay. Nobody will need titanium - there is no such consumption in Russia. Boeing will open a new joint venture with another country (Russia is not a leader in the production of titanium) and will never buy it in Russia again. Who won ?
    2. Is fuel getting more expensive? Do we bring fuel from Europe or from the USA? Maybe from Australia? (In 2021, a record price for aircraft fuel was noted). Who will set the price of fuel in Russia - Biden?
    3. Europe takes risks, but will not go for blackmail.
    4. Boeings may be delivered, but we will have nothing to fly on, and they will have a surplus - who is better?
    5. The Internet is not transmitted through the tower. The tower is needed to transmit the radio signal. Are you confusing WiFi?
  • zzdimk Offline zzdimk
    zzdimk 1 March 2022 19: 12
    +5
    Yesterday I wanted to buy a used laptop. Chose 11 options. After 40 minutes, 4 left for sale. The geeks are panicking. Sweep away equipment, even second-hand. Prices have increased by 30-150% - it all depends on the greed of the seller. Today, prices have stabilized and in some places have fallen by 40 - 70%.
    Everything will be fine. No need to panic.
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 37
      0
      Do you think prices will return to the previous level?
  • shinobi Offline shinobi
    shinobi (Yuri) 1 March 2022 19: 14
    +6
    The first moment - the West closed its skies to our companies. All these 800 of their aircraft will be laid up, well, a maximum of flying over the country. The second moment - The invisible hand of the market in this situation plays rather for us. -Tourists. It would seem a trifle, but ... 21 countries have closed from our tourists. The demand for airbuses and Boeings has already dipped sharply. Any sanctions are always a double-edged sword. the one who holds it will feel it. This is especially true for European trifles.
    1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 1 March 2022 19: 24
      0
      The world's leading manufacturers of engines and spare parts for aircraft have ceased cooperation with airlines from Russia. This may lead to the impossibility of maintenance of Airbus and Boeing aircraft in the near future.

      Russian carriers have received notices from the world's leading manufacturers of aircraft engines, components and spare parts for aircraft about the termination of cooperation. RBC was told about this by five sources in airlines.

      Thus, the engine manufacturer CFM International notified them of the suspension of all deliveries of aircraft parts to Russia. This is stated in a letter from CFM Customer Support Manager Mark Varange, which was sent on Sunday, February 27th. RBC has a copy of the letter, whose authenticity was confirmed by sources in two airlines. RBC sent a request to CFM International.

      CFM International is a joint venture between GE Aviation (a US division of General Electric) and Safran Aircraft Engines (France). Its main products are aircraft engines. Russian airlines use about 800 CFM56 engines. They are equipped with the most popular Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 aircraft among carriers. RBC sent inquiries to the press services of CFM, Aeroflot, S7, Pobeda, Russia and Ural Airlines.

      https://www.rbc.ru/business/28/02/2022/621ca5b19a794761d397e37b
      1. shinobi Offline shinobi
        shinobi (Yuri) 6 March 2022 19: 29
        0
        Yes, yes. And where do you think they will put the already manufactured equipment and spare parts for servicing this fleet, 777 aircraft? How will this affect their prices, jobs?
    2. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 38
      0
      Are you more concerned about the problem of Europeans and Americans from the fact that they will have a surplus, or that we will not have anything?
  • gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 1 March 2022 19: 32
    -9
    Iranian beaten aviation road.
  • 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 1 March 2022 19: 32
    +4
    At the same time, nothing prevents the installation of modern PD-204 engines designed for the MS-214 on the Tu-14/21. Why not? Left without aircraft at all, it will be necessary to use all available capacities in order to start producing our own as soon as possible.

    It doesn't make sense.
    1) The number of engines produced will be insufficient at first, the volumes also need to be increased, and this is time and money.
    2) An aircraft with a different engine will have to be tested and certified.
    3) "Production of the Tu-204/214 is still underway, albeit in small batches" looks like this: 2019 - 0 units: 2020 - 2 units; 2021 - 1 piece
    https://russianplanes.net/planelist/Tupolev/Tu-204/214

    We have the same problem as with the MS-21, namely a small volume of production. It makes no sense to spend money and simultaneously expand the production of an obsolete aircraft, especially since they will be designed for one engine that is also not produced by Sony, this is a waste of money and probably even sabotage. It is easier, cheaper and more efficient to focus on the MS-21.
    1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 2 March 2022 06: 48
      -1
      1) The number of engines produced will be insufficient at first, the volumes also need to be increased, and this is time and money.
      2) An aircraft with a different engine will have to be tested and certified.

      Of course you will. If you put PD-14. Do you want to stay without planes at all?
      And now you can produce with PS-90A. Here, Putin and Shoigu fly on such engines and do not complain.

      3) "Production of the Tu-204/214 is still underway, albeit in small batches" looks like this: 2019 - 0 units: 2020 - 2 units; 2021 - 1 piece

      https://russianplanes.net

      Stupidly there is no demand, so they make a teaspoon a day.

      It makes no sense to spend money and simultaneously expand the production of an obsolete aircraft, especially since they will be designed for one engine that is also not produced by Sony, this is a waste of money and probably even sabotage. It is easier, cheaper and more efficient to focus on the MS-21.

      The sabotage was the MS-21 and Superjet project, created from imported components, in the presence of Tu-204 and Tu-334.
      What exactly is outdated in Tu-214 and Il-96-400? There are already new engines - PD-14. Increasing the volume of production on them will reduce the cost.
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 2 March 2022 07: 55
        +2
        Of course you will. If you put PD-14. Do you want to stay without planes at all?
        And now you can produce with PS-90A. Here, Putin and Shoigu fly on such engines and do not complain.

        Your logic is strange. The fact is that PS-90A and PD-14 are produced in Perm, it is made by the same people at the same enterprise. It is pointless to waste resources and increase the production of an old engine. It is wiser to focus on the production of PD-14.

        Stupidly there is no demand, so they make a teaspoon a day.

        That's right, there is no demand and they do it piece by piece, there has never been mass production as such. Accordingly, there is no production base. It must be created, recruited and trained people. A new modern production facility for MS-21 has been built, and you want to invest in the old production facility in parallel.

        The sabotage was the MS-21 and Superjet project, created from imported components, in the presence of Tu-204 and Tu-334.

        Do you consider the creation of new modern aircraft to be wrecking? laughing
        At the time of the creation of the Superjet, there were no domestic components as such, the creation of an aircraft without import was not possible.
        And yes, about imported components ... do you know that the Tu-334 engine is Ukrainian D-436? Do you need to explain further? And yes, as far as I remember, there was a crew of 3 people.

        What exactly is outdated in Tu-214 and Il-96-400? There are already new engines - PD-14.

        What's with the engine? Like they created a new one, but you don’t need to change anything, and will it do?
        And why do you think the MS-21 is worse than the Tu-214? Or does the Tu-214 have some advantages?
        The IL-96 has 4 engines, in terms of economy it loses to competitors.

        Increasing the volume of production on them will reduce the cost.

        That's it. And you propose to simultaneously develop two smaller ones, respectively, the volumes will not grow.
        1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 3 March 2022 14: 44
          -1
          That's right, there is no demand and they do it piece by piece, there has never been mass production as such. Accordingly, there is no production base. It must be created, recruited and trained people.

          How is it that there is no production base? What is collected on the knee?

          A new modern production facility for the MS-21 has been built, and you want to invest in the old production facility in parallel.

          There, all avionics are imported and it has not yet been replaced. Tu-214 on the domestic component base initially.

          What's with the engine? Like they created a new one, but you don’t need to change anything, and will it do?
          And why do you think the MS-21 is worse than the Tu-214? Or does the Tu-214 have some advantages?

          MS-21 is worse in that it still depends on the West for a number of critical components.

          The IL-96 has 4 engines, in terms of economy it loses to competitors.

          The alternative is to stay AT ALL without aircraft.

          That's it. And you propose to simultaneously develop two smaller ones, respectively, the volumes will not grow.

          What kind of nonsense? Tu-201 can be produced now, MS-21 in a few years. At the same time, for each of their aircraft, not large volumes will not be released immediately, it will take many years. And the planes are needed right now.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 3 March 2022 15: 43
            +2
            How is it that there is no production base? What is collected on the knee?

            What's on the knee? Do you think there is one plant, they make 1-2 aircraft a year, how did it take to make a hundred?

            There, all avionics are imported and it has not yet been replaced. Tu-214 on the domestic component base initially.

            How long has this "initially" come?

            29.082019
            Radio communication equipment on passenger aircraft Il-96, Il-114-300, Tu-214 and MS-21 will installed in Russia. This was announced during the business program of the MAKS-2019 air show by the head of the scientific and technical center for radio communication equipment of NPP Polet (part of Ruselectronics) Leonid Vdovin.

            According to him, equipment has been delivered to the Il-114-300, as well as to the Il-96-300 flying laboratory, the equipment for the Tu-214 has already is being tested.

            https://aviation21.ru/na-rossijskix-passazhirskix-samolyotax-ustanovyat-otechestvennoe-oborudovanie-radiosvyazi/

            MS-21 is worse in that it still depends on the West for a number of critical components.

            This is not the MS-21 is worse, but the capabilities of the component manufacturing industry are lagging behind. They need to be developed. Understand that there are hundreds and thousands of components in aircraft, if we first establish the production of all components for an aircraft that does not yet exist, and only then start its production, we will probably never see a new aircraft.

            The alternative is to stay AT ALL without aircraft.

            Are you panicking again? laughing You are already drawing some gloomy prospects here. Everything is gone, the plaster is being removed, there will be no planes, it remains to predict the fall of the meteorite.

            What kind of nonsense? Tu-201 can be produced now, MS-21 in a few years. At the same time, for each of their aircraft, not large volumes will not be released immediately, it will take many years. And the planes are needed right now.

            If you can’t reach large volumes, then they won’t make the weather. This will have little to no effect on the overall situation. Maybe you should just stop banging your head against the wall in hysterics?
      2. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
        Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 40
        0
        "Putin" has 76 planes and helicopters in his fleet (no one else in the world has such a fleet). Only IL-96, 5 pieces (yes, and all at our expense, we are a poor country). The flight time of this aircraft is no more than 300 hours per year, which is less than a month's flight time on regular lines. Should I explain further?
  • akarfoxhound Offline akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 1 March 2022 19: 49
    +2
    We were constantly lobbying for the interests of Arbuzov and Bobik. Moreover, a third of the contracted price was a personal premium to the signatory (can you imagine the amount at least hypothetically from each side?) Plus dumping duties annually prolonged by the State Duma on the same devices. The Superjet is actually a Kirishi Toyota Camry, only with wings, in this miracle device there is only a Russian crew. But everyone is deeply "Edgar's"!. Until comrade Neradko and Pogosyan (and Co.) are held accountable for deliberate sabotage and are at the helm of aviation, while the design bureau is managed not by design engineers, but by effective managers - we will always be in the practologist's favorite hole! And this is at our distances!
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 42
      0
      We have a proven comrade at the head of the KLA. Who prevented him from creating excellent aircraft. His education and skills, according to the government, allow him to do this
  • Stanislav Gapochka 1 March 2022 20: 08
    +2
    It will have to - it will have to! A good reason to support our industry and start producing ourselves, rather than buying everything ready-made! wink
    Even if not immediately, but from 2024 we will be able to provide ourselves with modern aircraft, provide the Russians with highly paid jobs and tax revenues to the treasury. We ourselves are able to do everything ourselves, no worse than Western counterparts! good
    In the meantime, fly on Western planes that are leased. Either partially redeem them, or simply not return them until our gold and foreign exchange reserves in Europe and America are returned! hi
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 3 March 2022 13: 05
      0
      Modern aircraft? What are you speaking about ? The entire KLA cannot even replace the AN-2!
  • Oleg_5 Offline Oleg_5
    Oleg_5 (Oleg) 1 March 2022 20: 40
    +2
    The most surprising thing is that in this frenzy of sanctions - Boeing has not yet confirmed similar steps by Airbus.
    That is, so far we have lost spare parts, maintenance only for airbuses, plus leasing from European lessors for both airbuses and Boeings.
    But actually Boeing in the states and its main lessors are still silent.
    Almost bloodless redistribution of the market in their favor. And by the hands of the Europeans themselves.
    1. Oleg_5 Offline Oleg_5
      Oleg_5 (Oleg) 2 March 2022 06: 02
      0
      That's all - WASHINGTON, March 2 - RIA Novosti. Boeing has suspended technical support for Russian airlines, the company's press service said.
  • mark1 Offline mark1
    mark1 1 March 2022 21: 34
    +2
    Yes, everything will be fine. Such sanctions are the best option for us to revive. The new SSZh is being certified with our PD-8 (and how they didn’t want to!), MS-21 - taking off orders, IL-96 - a real chance for revival, and finally Tu204/214 ... well, it's just some kind of holiday! Customers have nowhere to go, everyone will order! Yes, and you shouldn’t worry too much about AiB - most likely no one will hand over anything - one half will be a source of credits. for another for a while. So the boss - not a mustache is lost!
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 43
      0
      Can you clarify - about the entry of orders? What kind of orders are these and who is ready to pay money for these orders - for what will the aircraft be produced, for promises?
      1. mark1 Offline mark1
        mark1 4 March 2022 16: 50
        0
        Don’t be smart, no one has yet canceled the ruble, it’s quite a currency - we are talking about the domestic market, first of all, at least 500 additional potential orders have appeared
        1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
          Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 54
          0
          Do you know the price of the plane? Tu-204 costs a couple of billion. The Aeroflot group, at the beginning of the year, had 750 billion in debt. What orders? At the expense of the population? I don't care who wants to fly there, it's better for me to have a normal price for gasoline, and not pay the price in gasoline taxes for a plane on which I will not fly.
          1. mark1 Offline mark1
            mark1 4 March 2022 16: 55
            0
            Quote: Sergey Zemskov
            I don't care who wants to fly there

            Well, I'm sorry about you somehow did not think request
            1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
              Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 17: 54
              0
              Who did you think about? About someone who got into debt and still needs to write off at my expense?
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 1 March 2022 22: 20
    -7
    Hello to all liberals in the Russian government!

    Putin is the main liberal! And I send greetings to Putin. Doesn't he happen to need cooks and taxi drivers as consultants to the government? I like this kind of dusty work. And his liberals to our workshop, on a shovel, to atone for their sins!
    1. 1_2 Offline 1_2
      1_2 (Ducks are flying) 2 March 2022 00: 02
      +3
      Glazyev, being an adviser to Putin, has repeatedly said that it is impossible to keep the gold reserves over the hill, but he trusted the liberal monkey Naibullina, now we are reaping the fruits of his gullibility, and most importantly, she is not removed or imprisoned, apparently Putin continues to hope that in a month everything will settle down and the gold reserves will be returned))
    2. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 17: 36
      0
      Do you understand who "liberals" are - or is it just a dirty word for you?
      1. Fourth Offline Fourth
        Fourth (Fourth) 4 March 2022 17: 40
        0
        Quote: Sergey Zemskov
        Do you know what "liberals" are?

        Sergeiwho are liberals? smile
        1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
          Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 17: 55
          0
          You're throwing such swear words around here. So tell me, what are the sexual and other characteristics of these "animals" ???
          1. Fourth Offline Fourth
            Fourth (Fourth) 5 March 2022 16: 16
            0


            This is your hint... laughing
            1. The comment was deleted.
  • IMHO Offline IMHO
    IMHO (nikitoss) 1 March 2022 22: 39
    +1
    Ulyonka will allow a certain number of people to fly on unreturned aircraft. Further cannibalization spare parts. But in 2 years, how many aircraft can be mass-produced? twenty? thirty? Few.
    There is an option to bow to Brazil and ask for pretty wild Embraera monkeys in the country. At least something.
    And to remember for ourselves that we once knew how to make good planes, and then you look, we will remember for cars. In the end, Rostselmash adapted
    1. faiver Offline faiver
      faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 17: 50
      0
      it won’t work with embraers - the engines are not Brazilian ones ...
      1. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 3 March 2022 14: 44
        0
        And Boeing has already bought their key mid-range division.
  • 1_2 Offline 1_2
    1_2 (Ducks are flying) 1 March 2022 23: 57
    +3
    if the West has blocked the reserves of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation out of lawlessness, then the Russian Federation will confiscate all the assets of the West in the Russian Federation, including leasing aircraft, and the shortage of spare parts will be solved by cannibalism)) that is, they will disassemble the aircraft for spare parts, and then we will transfer to the MS21 and Tu214 with superjets
  • Vladimir Golubenko (Vladimir Golubenko) 2 March 2022 01: 46
    +2
    This ... Gaidar God cleaned up. But there are some left. Chubais! Kudrin! Burbulis! Well, the last ones - Siluanov, Golikova, Nabiulina and Gref are the same. It was they who relied on the invisible hand of the market and led everyone into fornication. They destroyed the aviation industry of the USSR and put everyone on Boeings and Airbuses. Temer here we will pay, and they are in chocolate. All survivors to judge! For sabotage!
  • Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 2 March 2022 06: 15
    +2
    There is a simple cure for dealing with all sanctions.
    Nationalization of all foreign property in Russia.
    Yes, this will not solve all the problems, but it will give time for our "partners" to be able to assess their losses and begin to look for mutually acceptable solutions.
    It is clear that all exports to the West will have to be stopped at the same time.
    All this is extreme, but there is no other way out.
    We are not like that, life is like that (s).

    However, I am sure that the businessmen will agree. For example, for shares in Russian businesses, they will receive money from the blocked foreign exchange reserves of the Russian Federation. It seems that this is the official way.
    Divorce is inevitable, but business will try to make the divorce civilized.

    What's important? So that all these perturbations were not in vain. So that the Russians did not die in vain in the war.
    That is, the territory of the former Ukraine must be taken and taken completely, without stupid gifts to any Poland.
    And strain our European "partners" as much as possible. To feel the risk. To finally understand that investing in aircraft is no worse than investing in high-tech industries.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Andrey Terekhov Offline Andrey Terekhov
    Andrey Terekhov (Andrei) 2 March 2022 09: 10
    +2
    Energomash in Khimki makes rocket engines for the Americans. It's probably enough to supply there now. This enterprise has competencies, personnel and equipment. If you give them documentation on Perm motors, I think in a year they will start making them in parallel with Perm.
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 17: 51
      0
      no one will do anything there, even the departments are different. You don't understand this???
  • Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 2 March 2022 10: 41
    -3
    If we recall that it was Medvedev who distinguished himself by lobbying for Boeing deliveries, and that "effective managers" from IL, Su, Tu and others, having failed, simply switched to another "effective job", then everything is not so simple.

    Remember: "This music will last forever, you just need to change the batteries ..." (((
  • shinobi Offline shinobi
    shinobi (Yuri) 2 March 2022 10: 50
    +1
    Well, a powerful motivation to develop your own. Not for the first time by the way.
  • 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 2 March 2022 13: 02
    +2
    I read it here ... I didn’t look at the original source, but I guess this is not a joke. Sounds interesting to me yes
    But judge for yourself winked

    Here is a quote from Phil Seymour, chairman of the Association of Leasing Companies in Europe:

    1. Return 520 boards! But how to do it? The Russians said once you refuse to lease - take it yourself! How to deliver 520 crews to Russia if the skies of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are closed? We can't fly!
    2. As soon as the transfer of boards at Russian airports takes place, the planes will no longer be Russian. But a non-Russian plane cannot fly in the space of Russia - it is closed! We can't fly!
    3. Leasing companies act as initiators of leasing termination. In the initial calculation of the cost of fines = we are all bankrupt at once. It's easier to go bankrupt than to pick up the boards. It's cheaper.
    4. February has passed and Russia has to pay monthly lease payments. Russia agrees, but cannot pay, because swift is disabled. We will have to pay fines, but we have no money!
    5. Even if we take these planes - what to do with them? We don't need them, nobody needs them, and it's impossible to sell them!
    6. The US is not yet withdrawing its Boeings. If Europe takes Russian planes, then the States will supply their Boeings to Russia and become the N1 airline in the world, ruining both European leasing and Airbus.

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/obetomnegovoryat/rossiia-doljna-vernut-zapadu-520-lizingovyh-samoletov-eto-grozit-totalnym-bankrotstvom-lizingovym-kompaniiam-es-621f1328be879814c6ccbb8e?&
  • Naa IL-96 put into production, what are we waiting for? Or did the rollback bring down Mansurov?
  • faiver Offline faiver
    faiver (Andrei) 2 March 2022 18: 05
    +1
    I think we will break through, but it will shake us, but it will settle down ...
  • antibi0tikk Offline antibi0tikk
    antibi0tikk (Sergei) 3 March 2022 00: 05
    0
    Europe closed its skies to planes from Russia!
    Here is the map!!!!



    Wow!!!! well, you don't even have to leave the house! what is there beyond the threshold to do something???
    and now another photo, the same one, only the scale is a bit larger


    it seems to be the same, but how the meaning changes !!!!
    Well, they forbade us from entering the communal apartment ??? Well Duc there are so many pidoinfections that thank God!!!!
    1. antibi0tikk Offline antibi0tikk
      antibi0tikk (Sergei) 3 March 2022 00: 12
      0
      and yet, in these sanctions on the ban on flights and the return of leasing aircraft there is a certain legal incident (not mine - plagiarism, I saw Nikonov on TV in the Great Game)
      Well, they slowed down the Airbus planes. what to do with them? send to europe? - it is forbidden! Aircraft from Russia are not allowed to fly to Europe! European pilots will come (Yandex.taxi rules!!!) to Russia and sit at the helm??? Well Duc here is the answer !!! - European aircraft are prohibited from flying over Russia, take off! well, drag your chickens (like with wings, but can’t fly ...) by rail or on rafts across the Baltic! we need to free the parking lots under the MS-21!
    2. Marzhecki Online Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 3 March 2022 14: 46
      -1
      Do you plan to fly a lot to Africa or Latin America? Still, you need to focus on real life.
      1. antibi0tikk Offline antibi0tikk
        antibi0tikk (Sergei) 3 March 2022 16: 30
        +1
        Yes, I didn’t plan to fly to Europe and America either. I would go to Vietnam...
  • Alexpan Offline Alexpan
    Alexpan (Alexpan) 3 March 2022 00: 10
    +3
    Medieval civilizations like Afghanistan, for example, managed to defeat the high-tech Anglo-Saxon civilization. Wealth is not a guarantee of success. Spiritual strength is the key to success.
  • Poligraf Poligrafovich (Vadim Vorobyov) 3 March 2022 12: 21
    0
    ... I remember I remember a statement fatter than anyone fussy Yegorka about the aviation industry of Russia ... It's a pity the ferret died, it's impossible to show him ...
  • Without a market, gentlemen: Russia needs to restore the Soviet Aviation Industry as soon as possible, even if for this it is necessary to confiscate both yachts of Abramovich!
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 44
      0
      What's stopping you? Where will you start?
  • Adler77 Offline Adler77
    Adler77 (Denis) 3 March 2022 15: 41
    0
    This is fantastic in the short term. These planes are not mass-produced. So, with all your desire, you will see the first in a couple of years, or even more.
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 45
      0
      Production cycle of one aircraft in Russia - 2 years
  • Anchonsha Offline Anchonsha
    Anchonsha (Anchonsha) 3 March 2022 16: 26
    0
    Well, nothing, they will move faster now, there is no way sanctions were given to us by Uncle Sam with his lackeys from obliging Europe. And we need to fly, we need to find new points of sale. their goods.
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 45
      +1
      Who's stopping you - looking for?
    2. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 51
      0
      Alas, it is not customary in the world to write against the wind
  • ivanoff180869 Offline ivanoff180869
    ivanoff180869 (180869 Ivanoff) 4 March 2022 12: 31
    +1
    Dear author, I have some questions, you claim that the silt of the 96th special flight squad that is used for the president's flights and that it has 4 engines is due to the fact that they do not save on flights of top officials. This is an incorrect statement. First of all, you need to understand that the 96th long-range aircraft and the presence of 4 engines in it is, first of all, flight safety and the safety of the first person in the state.
    Second - where did you get the idea that the Russians will transfer to Soviet aircraft? What makes you think that the aircraft will be returned to lessors? I think this is your mistake and I am ready to argue that, most likely, in response to the sanctions and blocking of the assets of the Central Bank, all leased aircraft will be nationalized, they will be issued Russian registration certificates and airworthiness certificates and transferred to air carriers. These aircraft can provide the time interval necessary for the mass production of domestic aircraft. The lack of spare parts is also not a problem, channels for their supply will be found if the countermeasures taken do not bring our "partners" to their senses. There are service centers in Russia, there are also warehouses of spare parts for the first time, aviation specialists too. Even the banal cannibalism of aggregates and devices can be provided for several years to ensure domestic transportation of air passengers.
    Naturally, foreign flights will be closed for them. But domestic flights can be carried out on them.
    Foreign flights will be taken over with great pleasure by foreign air carriers, if by that time there are those who want to fly somewhere without the risk of ending up in Guantanamo Bay or another secret CIA prison.
    1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
      Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 16: 50
      -2
      By nationalizing the planes, you open Pandora's box - i.e. objects of property of the Russian Federation abroad will be arrested in a judicial proceeding - not only aircraft, but also ships and other property.
      Foreign carriers will not be allowed here, this is a fact. It will be impossible to fly to Turkey and Egypt (and maybe to Uzbekistan). Yes, a couple of years fly by inside Russia. And that's it.
      1. faiver Offline faiver
        faiver (Andrei) 4 March 2022 21: 53
        +1
        assets of the Russian Federation are already being arrested - 4 ships have been detained in France, in fact piracy
        1. Sergey Zemskov Offline Sergey Zemskov
          Sergey Zemskov (Sergei) 4 March 2022 23: 13
          0
          Specify what kind of ships these are - merchant ships with cargo? They presented the ship's papers, belongings, etc. ? And when a bank in Russia does not let through and blocks a bank client’s payment (transfer from a salary account), when a bailiff withdraws some money from your account without presenting any charges against you under some order - is this not piracy?
      2. ivanoff180869 Offline ivanoff180869
        ivanoff180869 (180869 Ivanoff) 9 March 2022 23: 04
        0
        Dear, the box has been open for a long time, the last one is the blocking of the assets of the Central Bank. Everything else is measures and countermeasures. Fly for two years?
        Only these three words say that you have never had anything to do with aviation.
        Arrest of assets and real estate and movables - one must roughly imagine how many assets and "real estate" owned by foreign companies, shareholders and individuals are located on the territory of the Russian Federation. For example, I suggest you go to the RusHydro website and see how many representatives of foreign companies are on the board of directors. And it is not known who will gain or lose more - the one who detained a Russian dry cargo ship or tanker or who confiscated the property of a foreign company on the territory of the Russian Federation. But it's not even about property, it's about cash flows. In 2022, Western and domestic financiers withdrew about $120 billion abroad. Multiply their hotchba by the old rate in rubles and get a figure in the trillions of which our economy has lost. Now this financial river is blocked. and many more different additional, but very sensitive measures to respond.
        And finally, in Iran after the Islamic revolution and sanctions against the ayattolls, Iranian planes from the 80s are still flying, despite the most severe sanctions.
  • Solomon Offline Solomon
    Solomon (alexey salomon) 6 March 2022 08: 10
    0
    Marzetsky, your favorite aircraft carriers would come in handy laughing