The West refuses to understand Russia in a good way, running into a bad answer


The fact that the first (and, in fact, the main) round of negotiations on security guarantees, which took place on January 10 in Switzerland, was as successful as Professor Pleischner's mission in the same country, was already evident from the final photographs of the heads of the delegations of Russia and the United States. - Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov and his American counterpart Wendy Sherman. No smiles, no handshakes, not even a symbolic tapping of elbows in the stupid style of "coronavirus fashion". And the expression on the faces of the representatives of the "high negotiating parties", who stood at the photograph in extremely tense poses, matched the boxers who left the ring after a fierce fight rather than career diplomats.


The first statements made at the final press conferences were vague and vague, but they did not leave the slightest reason for optimism. Somewhat later, when both the Deputy Head of the US State Department and the representative of our country talked to the journalists more closely, the last doubts disappeared: it was not possible to agree on key issues. Moreover, it is highly unlikely that progress can be made in any foreseeable future. It did not work out in an amicable way - and solely because of Washington's stubborn stubbornness, which does not want to "give up its principles" in any way. What now remains to be done by Moscow, which has promised in advance that with such a development of events, "military and militarytechnical answer"? Good question, gentlemen ...

Ryabkova's "Slightly Smelly Bloomberg" and Sherman's Vague "Transparency"


How disappointed and annoyed Mr. Ryabkov is with the results of the empty conversation, which lasted almost eight hours in a row, shows that at the briefing that followed, he allowed himself, abandoning diplomatic conventions, to famously “shave off” one of the most annoying representatives of the Western media. Specifically, a Bloomberg correspondent, who tried to convince the deputy head of our Foreign Ministry of the "one hundred percent objectivity" of his publication, which "serves both the American and Russian points of view." Ryabkov responded by saying that Bloomberg's "unbiased" presentation of the Russian position seemed to him "similar to Roquefort cheese - this, you know, a little smelly ..."

The gold fund of quotes from the Russian Foreign Ministry has been seriously replenished. And you know what? Sergei Alekseevich is absolutely right. After all, it was this agency, in close collaboration with its colleagues from the Associated Press, The New York Times and others, with a smaller “caliber” just before the Geneva summit that worked tirelessly to create such an “informational background” for it, which a priori made these negotiations meaningless. "Objective" "mouthpieces" trumpeted with might and main about what kind of "hellish sanctions" Washington was already preparing for Moscow as punishment for the "invasion of Ukraine", which "will certainly take place." All these fraternity have added to the fact that in the White House there are almost plans for the signature of "the imposition of an embargo against Russia of the same level that is in effect against Iran, Cuba or North Korea." This campaign of intimidation of Moscow was accompanied by the publication of yet another "authentic" and "completely reliable" maps with "plans for the Kremlin's aggression against Kiev." However, is it any wonder the Western "irons" if they, in fact, just re-echoed the official position of the State Department?

Its head, Anthony Blinken, who spoke at the end of last year about the "unacceptability" of Moscow's key positions, went even further on the eve of the summit with the participation of his first deputy. In his speech, the head of the United States Foreign Office accused Russia, no less, of "striving to restore the USSR." This was traditionally followed by talk about "a pistol put to the head of Ukraine" and the horrific punishments that await our country if it dares to "pull the trigger." You should, Mr. Blinken, write rhymes or something ... Or detectives at worst. This position of the Secretary of State is more than eloquent evidence: no one in the United States was going to agree on anything from the outset. No, "pure chatting" - why not? After the meeting, Wendy Sherman flooded like a nightingale about the "openness of the American side to discuss issues regarding missiles in Europe and conduct exercises there." And also the readiness to talk about some completely abstract and incomprehensible "measures of transparency".

What does this verbal construction mean - there is a great mystery. However, most likely, it hides an obsessive desire of our overseas "negotiating partners" to turn them into another endless series of pointless discussions about nothing. Regarding the topics that mean the most important priorities for Moscow - non-proliferation of NATO into the "post-Soviet space" and a significant reduction in its militaristic ambitions in Eastern Europe, Sherman sounded an unambiguous and categorical "No!" According to Sergei Ryabkov, "there is absolutely no progress at the critical moments on which the entire success of the negotiation process depends." The American side simply "does not hear" them. And he does not want to hear in any way.

And if "in a bad way"? The answer is there


No, no one refuses further meetings in the Russia-NATO and Russia-OSCE format, scheduled for the coming days. On the other hand, if “Sherkhan” growled his answer, is there any point in listening to the yapping of “Tabaka”? Moreover, based on the hysterical demarches of such NATO "pillars" as Lithuania or Estonia, as well as the arrogant and arrogant statements of the Alliance Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, other prospects, except for the next accusations of a "military threat" to Ukraine, assurances of its "unshakable support" , as well as absurd demands that something should be taken away from somewhere, one should not expect from these summits. The North Atlantic Alliance, which is still guided by the Washington "compass", will bend its line and categorically reject the main demands for which, in fact, negotiations with it were started. In addition, and for Kazakhstan, just look, they will begin to "present to roll out", trying to squeeze at least something out of their own shamefully failed adventure.

The Geneva round of negotiations was the "cornerstone" of the entire dialogue, which apparently ended before it even began. And, in all honesty, let's admit already - to rely on something else would be the height of naivety. Stay at the helm of the United States, albeit eccentric, but pragmatic Trump with his more than cool attitude towards NATO, perhaps something would have worked out. But the current democrats-nachets, from whom a mile away carries the most dense and fanatical messianism, will not compromise until they are completely and irrevocably driven into a corner. It seems that the time is coming for those very "necessary measures to eliminate threats unacceptable to Russia's security" that Sergei Lavrov warned about in advance.

"Zircon" - another in the window of the White House? It sounds tempting, but it is clear that no one will take such a suicidal path - and thank God. However, there is no need for such radical decisions, if life itself suggests a different, much more realistic and effective option. Andy Sherman, bursting with complacency, proclaims the inviolability "policy open doors of the North Atlantic Alliance ”? Well, great - let's answer in a very symmetrical way. Moreover, the events in Kazakhstan are not just suggesting, but actually pushing towards just such a "military-technical" decision. Do you continue to insist that NATO's doors are open for Ukraine and Georgia? Great - why don't the CSTO open their own? First of all - for the so-called Commonwealth of unrecognized states in its entirety. That is, for Abkhazia, South Ossetia, the Pridnestrovian-Moldavian and Nagorno-Karabakh Republics? And at the same time - for Donetsk and Lugansk (with their simultaneous recognition by Moscow and other members of the CSTO). Not recognized by the allies in the block? Something suggests that in exchange for guarantees of protection of the NKR, Yerevan will go for something else. In any case, Minsk has nothing to lose. Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan? With the first, everything is clear, but the second will not trample against the majority. Well, he will demonstrate a "dissenting opinion" for order, but will accept it.

Western reaction? So what? We are only mirroring your "principles"! War? They will not start unambiguously. They have neither the desire nor, above all, the strength for this. And, by the way, why not invite Syria, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela to the same CSTO? Walking - so walking! And surely there will still be those who wish! What will Washington be able to counter this? More sanctions? So they will still be - is it really not clear yet? They are not going to negotiate with us - they intend to press and intimidate further. Here, or bend, or go all-in.

And who says that the admission into the ranks of the CSTO (or, for example, a completely different military-political union created from scratch) of unrecognized states and countries persecuted by the West, in fact, are our outposts in the confrontation with the "world hegemon" , must it take place de jure? It is quite possible that the drafts of relevant documents published on the official resources of Russia will be enough for our “sworn friends” to “enlighten the mind”. They may remain so - for the time being. Or they can be signed as soon as possible - the crisis in Kazakhstan perfectly showed that Moscow not only knows how to act with lightning speed itself, but is also capable of motivating its allies to make decisions at the same speed. It is quite realistic to announce to our opponents a real ultimatum - to give a deadline for fulfilling the requirements and conditions announced at the end of last year, promising otherwise to formalize a new geopolitical reality, at least in the “post-Soviet space”, within XNUMX hours after its expiration.

One can a priori declare such a proposal as adventurism and playing with fire. Just to begin with, I would ask you to suggest something alternative. One can come to terms with defeat, with the fact that the "collective West", today critically dependent on the supply of our energy resources and clearly weaker militarily than our country, nevertheless categorically refuses to take it seriously. And you can, in the end, do not give a damn about all the stupid foreign policy "curtsies" and begin to act as it should be a great power, returning its own greatness not only in words.
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  1. Siegfried Offline Siegfried
    Siegfried (Gennady) 11 January 2022 09: 18
    -6
    it is possible for Russia and it is not necessary to turn off the electricity to Kiev now and the last supplies of which they are still supplying there, so as not to give rise to accusations. Slightly squeeze and Kiev will be blown away. The United States, having such an inadequate regime, is obviously playing with losing cards.
  2. Xuli (o) Tebenado 11 January 2022 09: 35
    .
    The West refuses to understand Russia in a good way, running into a bad answer

    You have to understand that the worst Russian (Russian) answer in a bad way is the plane in the photo, designed in the 70s of the last century.

    So they will still be - is it really not clear yet? They are not going to negotiate with us - they intend to press and intimidate further. Here or bend, or go all-in.

    Today it was reported that in Russia, with a further rise in food prices, the introduction of cards for food for certain segments of the population is being considered as an option. This is where you have to go for broke.

    That is, for Abkhazia, South Ossetia, the Pridnestrovian-Moldavian and Nagorno-Karabakh Republics? And at the same time - for Donetsk and Lugansk (with their simultaneous recognition by Moscow and other members of the CSTO).

    The first two were recognized only by Russia, the second two Russia at the official level considers parts of Moldova and Azerbaijan.

    why not invite Syria, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela to the same CSTO?

    Have they already been captured by the damned imperialists? Or are they just going to? So why invite them there?

    today critically dependent on our energy supplies and clearly weaker militarily,

  3. Pereira Offline Pereira
    Pereira (Michael) 11 January 2022 09: 35
    +10
    Your argumentation is similar to Roquefort cheese - I take the phrase into service.
  4. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 11 January 2022 09: 54
    .
    In order for words to be understood, deeds are needed. And what is Putin's business?

    Platinum will be allowed to export in unlimited quantities

    https://kapital-rus.ru/articles/article/vyvoz_platiny_i_redkih_metallov_iz_rossii_predlojili_uprostit/

    From December 20, for dry branches in the forest, you must take permission from the state

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/wildfoto/s-20-dekabria-na-suhie-vetki-v-lesu-nado-brat-razreshenie-u-gosudarstva-61bde1d3490db35e42617b65

    Machine tools are the main pain of the domestic industry

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/urpguide/stanki-glavnaia-bol-otechestvennoi-promyshlennosti-60e2d953716f6b471a01e4fc
    In general, "wherever you go, there is a wedge everywhere." And now we'll screw up with Kazakhstan. For the good of the hucksters, Russophobia will multiply there. With such deeds and such state mentality, Putin is jumping on the United States like "Pug on an elephant." And who will listen to him? This whole "circus" is for domestic consumption.
  5. Slon1978 Offline Slon1978
    Slon1978 (Sergei) 11 January 2022 10: 03
    +6
    The author's suggestions are like hysteria. Especially about accepting Syria and Iran into the CSTO, which will automatically mean a war with Israel tomorrow. There is a set of measures, I do not pretend to pretend to be an expert - there are much more literate people to develop responses, but I would include at least the following here:
    1. Placement of tactical nuclear weapons and their carriers on the territory of Belarus. The weapon will remain Russian and under the control of specialists from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, but it is necessary to officially declare its use in the event of aggression against the Republic of Belarus. By analogy with American nuclear weapons in Germany.
    2. Buy out all uranium mined in Kakhakhstan, limiting its supply to the external market. If this is not done ALREADY.
    3. Strengthen military-technical cooperation with China in every possible way, up to the inclusion of China in the CSTO. It will be a strong move.
    4. Expand military-technical cooperation with ardent opponents of the United States and Great Britain - the DPRK, Iran, Venezuela. To officially abandon the embargo on the sale of advanced (and sensitive for our "friends") weapons systems to them - for example, the Bastion anti-ship complexes, S-400 systems and supply them. Promote the development of Iran's nuclear program, including the production of nuclear weapons. Do it openly.
    5. Continue to economically nightmare Ukraine. Actually, this is already being done. Declare official military-technical cooperation with the LPNR as opposed to the NATO countries pumping Ukraine with weapons. To supply high-precision weapons to the LDNR army corps, the most suitable for maximizing enemy losses in trench warfare - guided shells and mines, complete with target designation drones. You can put it "in a set" with our calculations-vacationers.
  6. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 11 January 2022 10: 17
    +1
    This list of requirements for the United States and NATO is somewhat reminiscent of Moses' address to the Pharaoh.
    Was it worth the wait after this refusal ten executions of Egypt?

    The Lord said to Moses:
    - Go to Pharaoh and tell him: “Thus says the Lord: Let My people worship Me.
    2 If you refuse, I will bring frogs all over your country.
    3 The Nile will be teeming with frogs. They will crawl out of the river and gallop into your palace, into your bedroom, onto your bed, into the houses of your close associates and people, 21 into your ovens and doughs.
    4 Frogs will jump at you, at your people and at your close ones. "

    Exodus 8 chapter - Bible - New Russian translation: https://bible.by/nrt/2/8/
  7. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 11 January 2022 10: 48
    +4
    It was clear from the outset that the requirements of the Russian Federation were impracticable.
    Therefore, the question arises - what did the Russian Federation initially count on when putting forward deliberately impracticable conditions?
    The only real answer seems to be the delivery of preventive strikes against the United States and Euro-NATO, especially since Vladimir Putin said that in case of failure of the negotiations, i.e. refusal to expand NATO and return to the position of 1997, the Russian Federation will act as if the Russian missiles were stationed near the US borders - in Canada or Mexico.
    A preemptive strike against NATO means a full-scale war with the use of the entire available arsenal of weapons, including nuclear, which the Russian Federation will not start, which means that the entire determination of the Russian Federation is a bluff, and the Sshasovites understand this.
    You can have mountains of the most modern weapons, but they do not pose any threat if there is no determination to use them.
    The best answer would be to invade the Baltic state education and their inclusion in the union state education of the Russian Federation-Belarus. This would solve a lot of problems - from the de-blockade of the Kaliningrad province, to the reach of state institutions of the “old” Europe.
    As Vladimir Putin said, even if we had sunk a British frigate that violated the maritime border of the Russian Federation, the war would not have started because of this.
    I believe that the war would not have started because of the Baltic state formations. The NATO members would of course be ashamed, ashamed, but the Sshasovites would have been given a good answer.
    1. PokerFace Offline PokerFace
      PokerFace (Kirill) 12 January 2022 03: 53
      +1
      Variants are not suitable - the fauna there is not suitable. But to knock down a couple of three Amers' satellites from orbit (so, for the sake of ostrastka) is the very thing.
  8. Mantrid Machina Offline Mantrid Machina
    Mantrid Machina (Mantrid Machina) 11 January 2022 11: 03
    +1
    Well, as an option, they can bang at the bases in Syria on the PRO-infrastructure of Romania or on the "brothers-Bulgarians" (beat your own so that strangers are afraid), having previously warned in 5 minutes that a blow is being struck, so that they can dive into the toilet wassat
  9. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
    Mikhail L. 11 January 2022 11: 35
    +1
    The expansion of the CSTO at the expense of the economic and military states of the Lilliputians will not change the balance of power.
    Precisely "Zircon - another to the White House window?" - without a nuclear warhead as a warning: it can have an enlightening effect!
    1. ont65 Offline ont65
      ont65 (Oleg) 11 January 2022 11: 52
      +4
      The balance will change just as much as it changed with the admission of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to NATO, candidates like Georgia and other limitrophes. The Poseidon base in Cuba would look very weighty, for example.
      1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
        Mikhail L. 11 January 2022 12: 01
        +1
        Did the Balts' accession to NATO radically change the balance of power?
        If it helps ... to get through the window of the White House - the Russian Poseidon base in Cuba can be arranged without accepting the Island of Liberty in the CSTO!
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 11 January 2022 16: 49
          -7
          Are Cubans waiting?
          1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
            Mikhail L. 11 January 2022 18: 22
            +3
            Are they waiting to join the CSTO or the Russian naval base?
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 11 January 2022 19: 37
              -3
              At least the base.
        2. ksa Offline ksa
          ksa 12 January 2022 20: 44
          0
          The Baltic countries have practically blocked Kaliningrad. They are also located 150 km from St. Petersburg and 600 km from Moscow. In principle, NATO does not need Ukraine as a base for hypersonic weapons, since there are Balts. There are also airfields with bomb carriers within a minute's reach from the border. And using gliding bombs they can bomb Peter even from their own territory.
          1. Dear sofa expert. 15 January 2022 12: 06
            +1
            In principle, NATO does not need Ukraine as a base for hypersonic weapons, since there are the Balts. There are also airfields with bomb carriers within a minute's reach from the border.

            That's right, minute .. everything is there - "minute". There is no necessary depth of defense. All military infrastructure, including airfields and any army stationed there, will simply be destroyed into dust, in the “minutes” you specified, by conventional and rocket artillery and front-line aviation. Ukraine is still a little bigger.
    2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 11 January 2022 16: 48
      .
      In response, he will fly to the Kremlin window and what next?
      1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
        Mikhail L. 11 January 2022 18: 21
        +4
        Have Americans already got "hypersound"?
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 11 January 2022 20: 41
          .
          Does the Russian Federation have it? Oh yeah, even North Korea has hypersound.
          https://www.rbc.ru/politics/29/09/2021/615399b69a7947d25455f5f6
          Are you sure an anti-ship missile can fly through the window?
          Irons will soon be called hypersonic. This is some kind of fashionable hobby, probably.
          A hypersonic missile must be capable of maintaining hypersonic speed. To do this, it must have a hypersonic ramjet engine. This does not exist in nature. If we call everything that achieves hypersound "hypersound", then the Germans are undoubtedly superior. Their V-2 was the first to reach hypersound. As any object falling from space or from the upper layers of the atmosphere reaches it.
          In the end, 500 tomahawks will not be repelled by any air defense.
          1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
            Mikhail L. 12 January 2022 00: 16
            +4
            The respected person caught V. Putin in a lie, claiming that the Russian Federation has "hypersound", and convicted the Americans of incompetence - who believed in this and are developing their own "impossible" hypersonic weapons?
            On a blank - instead of a nuclear warhead - the Americans will answer ... with real 500 tomahawks?
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 12 January 2022 00: 50
              -7
              You speak as if to catch Putin in a lie, something like that. He is regularly caught lying. Actually, this is not even a lie, but a slight exaggeration. And where did I say that is impossible? It just doesn't exist yet.

              Quote: Mikhail L.
              On a blank - instead of a nuclear warhead - the Americans will answer ... with real 500 tomahawks?

              500 with blanks until it gets there. In any case, I am sure that our president is a sane person and such insanity as a bullet at a white house with blanks is not in his style.
              1. PokerFace Offline PokerFace
                PokerFace (Kirill) 12 January 2022 03: 59
                +3
                Truth? Should a politician always tell the truth and only the truth, also in public? So I see how Putin comes out in 2007 and says, "We are now planning a large-scale rearmament of the army, and then we will send the United States to ...". Yes, Olezhka? And how long after that would you have to wait for the most active resistance to this process from Washington? Starting with the attempts of the Maidan in Moscow and ending with the new arson of the Caucasus. Or maybe direct military intervention, not to mention a significant increase in the military spending of NATO countries.

                Or there Stalin speaks on the radio and says “We are planning next month to carry out a large-scale offensive near Stalingrad and to encircle the German group of Paulus. But this is a secret. " Can you imagine this?

                Can they also make the plans of the General Staff and blueprints of the latest weapons publicly available? We're honest!
                1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                  Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 12 January 2022 21: 39
                  -7
                  Yes, let him lie, what is it to me. Just dear Mikhail L. so surprised at this.
                  If any person lies and is caught on it, then the words of such a person are devalued. The politician should at least not get caught. Better to evade an answer than to lie.
                  Dear Pokerezhka, the rest of your comment is such naive nonsense, just something.
          2. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 12 January 2022 23: 41
            +3
            Irons will soon be called hypersonic. This is some kind of fashionable hobby, probably.
            A hypersonic missile must be capable of maintaining hypersonic speed. To do this, it must have a hypersonic ramjet engine. This does not exist in nature. If we call everything that achieves hypersound "hypersound", then the Germans are undoubtedly superior. Their V-2 was the first to reach hypersound. As any object falling from space or from the upper layers of the atmosphere reaches it.

            It is strange that the Americans did not think of this before, they are trying to create everything. But the creator of Fau was in their hands.

            In the end, 500 tomahawks will not be repelled by any air defense.

            Of course it won't. Such a flock simply will not reach. We have already seen it in Syria.
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 12 January 2022 23: 55
              -6
              Quote: 123
              It is strange that the Americans did not think of this before, they are trying to create everything. But the creator of Fau was in their hands.

              Call a ballistic missile hypersonic? Yes, for this you need to be such a genius as Vladimir Vladimirovich. Or Kim Jong Un. And stupid Americans are still trying to finish the scramjet.

              Quote: 123
              Of course it won't. Such a flock simply will not reach. We have already seen it in Syria.

              Blessed is he who believes.
              1. 123 Offline 123
                123 (123) 13 January 2022 00: 17
                +3
                Call a ballistic missile hypersonic? Yes, for this you need to be such a genius as Vladimir Vladimirovich. Or Kim Jong Un. And stupid Americans are still trying to finish the scramjet.

                It looks like the Americans are stupider than you, or they don't dare to lie so openly. You would somehow find yourself in the same reality with them, otherwise you all live in a parallel. Here is a strange guy in a blue overalls says strange things, and if that is not the first.


                On Saturday, November 20, a senior US Space Force official warned that the country's hypersonic weapons capabilities are "not as sophisticated" as those of China or Russia. General David Thompson, Deputy Commander for Space Operations, acknowledged that the United States is lagging behind in developing new and advanced weapons. “In terms of hypersonic programs, we are not as advanced as the Chinese or the Russians,” General Thompson said at the Halifax Forum on International Security in Canada, as reported by POLITICO.
                His announcement came a week after China launched a rocket that circled the globe before hitting a target. Russia also launched a hypersonic missile from a warship in the Arctic last week, showing how fast America's two main competitors are advancing in terms of technology. Hypersonic missiles travel at a speed of at least five times the speed of sound, but their ability to glide through the atmosphere, changing direction at such a high speed, makes them virtually impossible to track and destroy with existing radars.
                US Navy plans to deploy its own version of the rocket
                The US military is not expected to enter service with its first missile until 2024, despite the Pentagon pushing for new hypersonic missiles.

                https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/us-space-force-lags-behind-russia-china-in-hypersonic-weapons-capabilities-official.html

                Blessed is he who believes.

                Believe in anything, not a violent sectarian is not so scary.
                1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                  Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 January 2022 16: 54
                  -6
                  Quote: 123
                  It looks like the Americans are stupider than you, or they don't dare to lie so openly. You would somehow find yourself in the same reality with them, otherwise you all live in a parallel. Here is a strange guy in a blue overalls says strange things, and if that is not the first.

                  Yes, do not care. I have been saying for a long time that in the basement of the house of every US general there is a secret room, with a secret altar, where there is a framed portrait of Putin. And every Sunday such a general goes down to the basement, lights a candle and prays for the health of our president. There is no information about the working scramjet engine.

                  Can you explain to me? Let's say a super-duper wunderwaffe exists and it really is a super-duper wunderwaffe. So what? What does it change? The Third Reich also had a bunch of super-duper wunderwaffe, but somehow it didn't help him much.

                  Quote: 123
                  Believe in anything, not a violent sectarian is not so scary.

                  No need to shift from a sore head to a healthy one. Believe that tomahawks don't fly anywhere, believe. No one can forbid you to do this.
                  1. 123 Offline 123
                    123 (123) 13 January 2022 17: 41
                    +3
                    Yes, do not care. I have been saying for a long time that in the basement of the house of every US general there is a secret room, with a secret altar, where there is a framed portrait of Putin. And every Sunday such a general goes down to the basement, lights a candle and prays for the health of our president. There is no information about the working scramjet engine.

                    So there are only clowns in the Pentagon? Are you one specialist? Wait until the Ministry of Defense provides you with information about the working scramjet engine. laughing It was not long left, AK-47 was not worn in covers even 30, over time you will find out the details here. yes

                    Can you explain to me? Let's say a super-duper wunderwaffe exists and it really is a super-duper wunderwaffe. So what? What does it change? The Third Reich also had a bunch of super-duper wunderwaffe, but somehow it didn't help him much.

                    Well, if this is difficult for you, I will explain. These are not subsonic Tamogavki. The Americans simply have nothing to bring them down.
                    And about all sorts of Reichs, demolished the third, we will demolish the fourth and no "super-duper wunderwaffe" will help.

                    No need to shift from a sore head to a healthy one. Believe that tomahawks don't fly anywhere, believe. No one can forbid you to do this.

                    I trust the information of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and my own eyes. Rare Tamogavk will fly to the middle of Syria.
                    Do you believe the American half-dead generals with Putin's altar in the basement?
                    Look through at your leisure, the Americans themselves published the photos of the hits.
                    No matter how much I looked, well, it does not pull there for a hundred even close. Here's one example, look for a couple of dozen hits there. (to be honest, the topic of "super-reliable" Tamogavks has already become boring).
                    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/14/602550478/images-show-3-syrian-chemical-weapons-sites-before-and-after-missile-strikes

                    The General Staff of the RF Armed Forces carried out a detailed analysis of the results of the strikes. The collected fragments of missiles, the study of craters from explosions and the nature of the destruction of objects allows us to conclude that out of 105 reported hits in the target area, no more than 22 of them were recorded

                    http://status-arms.ru/novosti/minoborony-rossii-prodolzhaet-analiz-raketnogo-uda/

                    At the same time, the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces clarified that 7 missiles of the Western coalition hit the Syrian facility "Khim Shinshar", where chemical weapons were allegedly stored, and not 22, as stated in the Pentagon.

                    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/201804251223-nosq.htm
                    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 January 2022 17: 59
                      -7
                      Quote: 123
                      So there are only clowns in the Pentagon? Are you one specialist? Wait until the Ministry of Defense will provide you with information about the working scramjet engine.

                      The invented scramjet is comparable to the invention of the diesel engine. Or turbojet engine compared to piston. This is a BREAKTHROUGH in technology. These clowns have a budget of hundreds of billions of dollars.

                      Quote: 123
                      Well, if this is difficult for you, I will explain. These are not subsonic Tamogavki. The Americans simply have nothing to bring them down.

                      What are you not building smart from yourself?
                      So, what is next? Everyone understands that no one will shoot anyone.

                      Quote: 123
                      And about all sorts of Reichs, demolished the third, we will demolish the fourth and no "super-duper wunderwaffe" will help.

                      Demolish demolish, who is against.



                      At least the tenth.

                      Quote: 123
                      I trust the information of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and my own eyes. Rare Tamogavk will fly to the middle of Syria.

                      I say, blessed is he who believes.
                      1. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 13 January 2022 20: 01
                        +4
                        The invented scramjet is comparable to the invention of the diesel engine. Or turbojet engine compared to piston. This is a BREAKTHROUGH in technology.

                        I am glad that you value the merits of Russian scientists so highly. Didn't even expect from you.

                        In 1994-1998 KBKhA together with TsIAM them. Baranova developed an experimental axisymmetric hypersonic ramjet engine (scramjet engine) 58L: engine thrust in a vacuum - 300 kgf, specific thrust impulse - 2000 s., Pressure in the combustion chamber - 5 kgf / cm2, operating time - 100 s., (Leading designers I.V. Liplyavyi, Yu.A. Martynenko), - designed to study the working processes of combustion of hydrogen fuel in flight conditions at speeds of 3-6,5 M and altitudes from 20 to 35 km. The engine runs on liquid hydrogen, which passes through the cooling path of the combustion chamber and then into the combustion zones. The combustion chamber is annular, three-zone. In the first zone, the combustion of hydrogen occurs in a subsonic air flow, in the other two - in a supersonic one. The engine was fully designed and manufactured at KBKhA, while original design and technological solutions were implemented. In 1998, the scramjet engine successfully passed flight tests as part of the Igla installation. The engine was turned on at a flight speed of 3M, at the end of the flight the speed reached 6,47M. For the first time in the world, the combustion of hydrogen in the chamber took place in a supersonic flow. The engine worked completely and without any remarks according to the test program.

                        https://engine.space/science/develop/giperzvukovoy-pryamotochnyy-vozdushno-reaktivnyy-dvigatel-gpvrd8700/


                        These clowns have a budget of hundreds of billions of dollars.

                        How is a highly paid clown fundamentally different?

                        What are you not building smart from yourself?
                        So, what is next? Everyone understands that no one will shoot anyone.

                        What are you, of course not. Probably it looks like this against your background. Probably if you ate such game you will not carry, everything will look a little different. All in your hands yes I hope it will not come to a "bullet", but they have nothing to intercept the missiles, they understand this. If in your opinion it does not make sense at all, why are you puffing out your cheeks by telling how much the clowns have on their budget? laughing Would you tell us more about capitalization? winked

                        Demolish demolish, who is against.

                        Thank you for your kind words, of course, but no one asked for your approval.

                        I say, blessed is he who believes.

                        Are you talking about yourself? You just take their word for it. By the way, quite selectively. Either they are highly paid clowns whom you completely trust, then you categorically refuse to believe, you start carrying a blizzard about Putin's cellars and altars. Straight bifurcation of some sort. Maybe you are just angry with them that you have not justified trust? They sacredly believed in the omnipotence of Hechemon, but they were like this ... sad
                      2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 January 2022 22: 28
                        -6
                        Quote: 123
                        I am glad that you appreciate the merits of Russian scientists so highly.

                        Our scientists are well done, who argues. Only in your article they forgot to mention that this engine was tightly attached to the top of the S200 rocket with a thrust of 168 tf, and it was this rocket that accelerated this engine to the specified speeds. 300 kgf is nothing. The onyx rocket (should have the same dimensions as the Zircon) has an engine thrust of 4 tf, its speed is M2-M2,6. In order to accelerate and support a rocket of the same dimensions at a speed of M9, the thrust must be orders of magnitude higher. Resistance is directly proportional to the square of speed. It is not difficult to calculate that the thrust should be about 80 tf.

                        Quote: 123
                        How is a highly paid clown fundamentally different?

                        "If you are so smart, why are you so poor"

                        Quote: 123
                        Well, of course you don't. It probably looks like this in your background. Probably, if you don’t carry such game, everything will look a little different. Everything is in your hands I hope it won’t come to “shoot”, but they have nothing to intercept missiles, they understand this. If this doesn't make sense to you at all, why are you puffing your cheeks here by telling how much the clowns have a budget? Can you tell me more about capitalization?

                        Hmm... I thought you were playing the fool... How would it be simpler. The Russian Federation and the United States have land-based and sea-based ICBMs. Neither side can repel a massive attack with ICBMs. Both sides have "traditional" sea- and air-launched cruise missiles. It is highly doubtful that at least one of the parties can repel a massive strike with such missiles. Now there is a super-duper wunderwaffe Zircon. And what has changed in the parity of the parties? That in order to hit one target, it is necessary to launch not three onyxes, but one zircon? Is this thought supposed to warm the one who launched the zircon before death?

                        Quote: 123
                        Thank you for your kind words, of course, but no one asked for your approval.

                        I just wished you a happy journey, as they say a flag in your hands, a drum around your neck. You just lost count, on the frames above you can see how the fourth one is being demolished.

                        Quote: 123
                        Are you talking about yourself?

                        No, I'm talking about you. How many times has the Russian Defense Ministry changed the testimony of "objective control means" regarding the death of MH17. Are you following the calculations?
                      3. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 14 January 2022 00: 40
                        +3
                        Our scientists are well done, who argues. Only in your article they forgot to mention that this engine was tightly attached to the top of the S200 rocket with a thrust of 168 tf, and it was this rocket that accelerated this engine to the specified speeds. 300 kgf is nothing. The onyx rocket (should have the same dimensions as the Zircon) has an engine thrust of 4 tf, its speed is M2-M2,6. In order to accelerate and support a rocket of the same dimensions at a speed of M9, the thrust must be orders of magnitude higher. Resistance is directly proportional to the square of speed. It is not difficult to calculate that the thrust should be about 80 tf.

                        Strange you man what First, praise the invention and the work of Russian scientists, speak not favorably about the mental abilities of Americans who are still "sawing" this direction.

                        The invented scramjet is comparable to the invention of the diesel engine. Or turbojet engine compared to piston. This is a BREAKTHROUGH in technology.

                        Call a ballistic missile hypersonic? Yes, for this you need to be such a genius as Vladimir Vladimirovich. Or Kim Jong Un. And stupid Americans are still trying to finish the scramjet.

                        And then you start to itch that the engine is bad and the thrust should be greater. This sample was tested in 1998. Some time has passed since then, people have been working. They say the time was not spent in vain, the missiles fly, the Americans do not try to dispute this. And you just can't believe it. You have nothing but lamb obstinacy. I DON'T BELIEVE and that's it No. Will there be other arguments?
                        If not, goodbye, I'm not a psychiatrist.

                        "If you are so smart, why are you so poor"

                        Unfortunately, I can't say the same about you. request And finance has nothing to do with it.

                        Hmm... I thought you were playing the fool... How would it be simpler. The Russian Federation and the United States have land-based and sea-based ICBMs. Neither side can repel a massive attack with ICBMs. Both sides have "traditional" sea- and air-launched cruise missiles. It is highly doubtful that at least one of the parties can repel a massive strike with such missiles. Now there is a super-duper wunderwaffe Zircon. And what has changed in the parity of the parties? That in order to hit one target, it is necessary to launch not three onyxes, but one zircon? Is this thought supposed to warm the one who launched the zircon before death?

                        It's not for you to talk about stupidity. You measure defense capacity by the size of the budget. The "capitalization" sectarians are so funny laughing I don't even want to parse your muddy reasoning. Nonsense of a female horse of a gray color.

                        I just wished you a happy journey, as they say a flag in your hands, a drum around your neck. You just lost count, on the frames above you can see how the fourth one is being demolished.

                        Thanks, I didn't watch the video. If you like, reconsider for health.
                        Leave the drum for yourself, insert it more comfortably and forward the American budget to recalculate. I am sure you will be comfortable, your hands are not busy and you can always sit down and relax on a musical instrument.

                        No, I'm talking about you. How many times has the Russian Defense Ministry changed the testimony of "objective control means" regarding the death of MH17. Are you following the calculations?

                        As I understand it, you have no more arguments, there is nothing to talk about. Goodbye.
                      4. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 14 January 2022 15: 40
                        -6
                        Quote: 123
                        And then you start to itch that the engine is bad and the thrust should be greater.

                        Where did I say the engine is bad? No worse than the Americans. How would it be easier for you. Let's take TRD as an example. The idea of ​​such an engine was proposed almost at the end of the 1900th century. In 1906, the Russian engineer Kuzminsky built the first sample of such a turbine, but did not have time to bring it to working condition. In 1,2, the Russian engineer Karavodin designed and built a non-compressor gas turbine engine that developed a power of 30 kW. A similar engine was developed by the German Holzwart around the same time. The first aircraft with a turbojet engine was built in the late 40s, serial production in Germany in the mid-40s, a really reliable engine in the late XNUMXs. If this chronology is transferred to the scramjet, then for them now is the first decade of the XNUMXth century.

                        I believe that hypersonic weapons are a very real thing, and this problem, in principle, has even been solved to some extent. To be honest, any missiles that are launched into space upon returning to earth, their warhead goes through a hypersonic mode. So from the point of view of design, protection from thermal loads, and so on, this problem has been solved.
                        The use of a direct flow (straight-through engine - IF), I think that on military equipment is not entirely justified. What is hypersonic forward flight. This is the only engine that can reach speeds greater than Mach 3. In a direct flow, the air stream enters the chamber with tremendous speed, where the fuel is injected, and it should burn. But imagine what kind of process is there, there is continuous turbulence. When subsonic combustion, everything is in order there. And here it is not clear what is happening. A very complex process. Of course, sooner or later measures will be devised to equalize this flow, and so on. But all this is very expensive. So far, we have not found a technical solution to this problem.

                        And especially for you:

                        If we solve the problem of anti-missile defense against a warhead that has a reflective surface less than a meter, why don't we see and shoot down a hypersonic aircraft flying at a speed of Mach 6-7 when we shoot down missiles at high speeds in the upper atmosphere, etc. ., and in the space sector.
                        4 September 2017

                        https://www.interfax.ru/interview/577399
                        The first tests of zircon began in 2012.

                        Quote: 123
                        Unfortunately, I can’t say anything about you. And finances have nothing to do with it.

                        I'm talking about you too. Always communicating with you, a wonderful statement of our forum member comes to mind

                        Quote: isofat
                        the dumber a person, the faster he condescends to insults

                        Neither add nor subtract.

                        Quote: 123
                        It's not for you to talk about stupidity. You measure defense capacity by the size of the budget. The sectarians of "capitalization" are so funny. I don't even want to disassemble your muddy reasoning. Nonsense of a female horse of a gray color.

                        Well, is it possible! Well, something needs to be done about it! Where did I measure the budgets? Although this is important. You do not understand the word "parity"? So there are a lot of dictionaries on the Internet. Apparently, in the definition of this concept you will come across unfamiliar words, so again, look in the dictionary. Believe me, there is nothing complicated, even you can.

                        Quote: 123
                        Thanks, I didn't watch the video. If you like, reconsider for health.
                        Leave the drum for yourself, insert it more comfortably and forward the American budget to recalculate. I am sure you will be comfortable, your hands are not busy and you can always sit down and relax on a musical instrument.

                        You know, you scare me. Do not project your secret desires onto others. We still have a traditional society and all your quirks here are of no interest to anyone.

                        Quote: 123
                        As I understand it, you have no more arguments, there is nothing to talk about. Goodbye.

                        The fact that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has repeatedly come across a lie is not an argument for you? Google to the rescue, there are a bunch of photos of Syrian objects hit by tomahawks, including photos of Russian correspondents. Or does faith not allow you to perceive something other than the RF Ministry of Defense? Your problems of faith, not my problems.

                        Merged and merged. Good luck, don't cough.
                      5. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 14 January 2022 22: 19
                        +2
                        Where did I say the engine is bad? No worse than the Americans. How would it be easier for you. Let's take TRD as an example. The idea of ​​such an engine was proposed almost at the end of the 1900th century. In 1906, the Russian engineer Kuzminsky built the first sample of such a turbine, but did not have time to bring it to working condition. In 1,2, the Russian engineer Karavodin designed and built a non-compressor gas turbine engine that developed a power of 30 kW. A similar engine was developed by the German Holzwart around the same time. The first aircraft with a turbojet engine was built in the late 40s, serial production in Germany in the mid-40s, a really reliable engine in the late XNUMXs. If this chronology is transferred to the scramjet, then for them now is the first decade of the XNUMXth century.

                        They built the first sample, didn’t bring it to mind, doesn’t it develop enough power? Do I understand you correctly?
                        In other words, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is lying, and everyone around him agrees, including "highly paid clowns" from the Pentagon, do you alone know that there is none of this, all the cartoons and you are the only one on a white horse for the truth? Who else besides you thinks so? Oh yes ... they gave a quote, left a link ...
                        Well, they could have instead of this stupid proposal ...

                        And especially for you:

                        Just don't remove the paragraph from the middle of the text, this one.

                        As for the hypersonic aircraft, I don't understand why you need to fly hypersonic. A military aircraft will not receive any special advantages from hypersonic flight. Shoot him down anyway. Firstly, it will be of a large dimension, a small one will not work. So it will be good to show up.

                        After reading which it becomes clear that we are talking about a hypersonic aircraft, the problem with the engine for it was not resolved for 2017.
                        1) Re-read the article at your link. Academician Fedorov talks about the aircraft he was involved in. He did not mention his involvement in the development of hypersonic missiles.
                        2) If you looked at the calendar, you might have noticed that it is 2022, more than 4 years have passed since the article was published. Moreover, I apologize for the link to Wiki, I think you can find Fedorov's biography in other sources and check the information. So...

                        Since 1988 - Head of the Department at MIREA (Russian Technological University).
                        In 2001-2006 - General Director of FSUE "GosNIIAS", since 2006 - Scientific Supervisor - First Deputy General Director. Since April 2009 - Secretary General, later - Member of the Supervisory Board of the Union of Aircraft Manufacturers of Russia

                        Department head
                        CEO
                        Deputy CEO
                        The Secretary-General
                        Supervisory Board of the Union of Aircraft Manufacturers of Russia...
                        The man was 90 years old at the time of writing (born in 1929).
                        Total
                        1) Judging by the job titles, a person has not been working as a designer for a long time, for about the last quarter of a century in administrative work.
                        2) There is no information about his involvement in the development of hypersonic missiles.
                        3) Information of this kind is secret. I doubt that he does not understand this and tells everything he knows.
                        All that he told in the article, with all due respect, is the tales of a pensioner by the fireplace. Here we are, they say, in due time ... well, a personal opinion on similar topics.

                        In general, this time really goodbye.
                        With arguments of this kind, either on RenTV or to a psychiatrist, at the same time discuss your addictions to musical instruments.

                        If you repeat the same stupid things over and over again, it does not indicate your sanity. To continue the discussion, present a certificate from the doctor.
                      6. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 16 January 2022 11: 09
                        -4
                        Quote: 123
                        They built the first sample, didn’t bring it to mind, doesn’t it develop enough power? Do I understand you correctly?

                        No wrong. It was an experimental engine, the goals of the experiment were achieved. The fact that his own air resistance in hypersound is greater than his thrust, so no one expected more.

                        Quote: 123
                        In other words, the RF Ministry of Defense is lying

                        Him not in the first. Doesn't it bother you that North Korea also has hypersound?

                        This is manipulation. It is possible that the Vanguard is controlled during the fall (like a guided bomb) and at the same time honestly falls on hypersound. Maybe even plans to some extent. But this is just an improved warhead. This was developed back in the USSR in the 70s. The pershing was controlled during the fall and the R-36M also has a guided warhead. Perhaps in zircon, the booster stage accelerates it to hypersonic, and the ramjet engine turns on after the speed drops to supersonic. And on this basis, he is called hypersonic. But in this way, almost any ballistic missile can be called hypersonic.
                        There is no information about the existence of a working scramjet.

                        Quote: 123
                        Just don't remove the paragraph from the middle of the text, this one.

                        Should I have copied the entire article here?

                        Quote: 123
                        After reading which it becomes clear that we are talking about a hypersonic aircraft, the problem with the engine for it was not resolved for 2017.

                        Well, this is just for you.
                        The question was in two parts.

                        Today, the topic of hypersonic weapons is being actively discussed. When, in your opinion, can a hypersonic aircraft be created?

                        The first part of the answer about hypersonic weapons
                        The second part after the phrase "As for the hypersonic aircraft" is about aircraft.
                        How is an airplane engine fundamentally different from a rocket engine?
                        Again, believe, believe. Nobody can forbid you.

                        Quote: 123
                        In general, this time really goodbye.
                        With arguments of this kind, either on RenTV or to a psychiatrist, at the same time discuss your addictions to musical instruments.

                        If you repeat the same stupid things over and over again, it does not indicate your sanity. To continue the discussion, present a certificate from the doctor.

                        Broke again...
                        And so it started well and here it is again. What has life done to you!

                        Quote: isofat
                        the dumber a person, the faster he condescends to insults

                        It looks like this is not a reversible process.
                      7. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 16 January 2022 15: 02
                        +2
                        This is manipulation.

                        What is the manipulation? You are not embarrassed that too many people are involved in this "manipulation". Up to the "highly paid clowns from the Pentagon", you alone fight with windmills on a white mustang. Who else besides you thinks so?

                        And on this basis, he is called hypersonic. But in this way, almost any ballistic missile can be called hypersonic.

                        You yourself listed the differences from a ballistic missile. You can name it, but you don't. You understand that the point here is not only in achieving hypersonic speed.

                        There is no information about the existence of a working scramjet.

                        What does worker mean? I gave you a link to the manufacturer's website. The engine was tested, it flew back in 1998. 23 years have passed since then, don’t you admit that Russian designers could have made some progress in this direction? Would you like to be taken on a tour and given to touch everything?

                        Doesn't it bother you that North Korea also has hypersound?

                        What's with the DPRK? If they claim that their astronauts have been to the moon, will this mean that the Americans were not there? Just think, why don't the Americans just say that they have hypersound, but are developing it? They also have ballistic missiles.

                        Well, this is just for you.
                        The question was in two parts.

                        Today, the topic of hypersonic weapons is being actively discussed. When, in your opinion, can a hypersonic aircraft be created?

                        The first part of the answer about hypersonic weapons
                        The second part after the phrase "As for the hypersonic aircraft" is about aircraft.
                        How is an airplane engine fundamentally different from a rocket engine?
                        Again, believe, believe. Nobody can forbid you.

                        What you call the first part of the question is actually not. This is an introduction, the correspondent states the fact that the topic of hypersonic weapons is being actively discussed. That's all, there is not a word about hypersonic missiles, an interview about aircraft.
                        If you are not in the know, the question is indicated by this icon at the end of the sentence "?"In your opinion, the correspondent asks the academician - today we will talk about hypersonic weapons? In general, manipulation and lies. Take pity on the owl, she is not comfortable on the globe.

                        You "technically" jumped off the issue of discussing the competence in this matter of 90-year-old Academician Fedorov, who has been in administrative work since the same distant 1998 and has nothing to do with hypersonic missiles at all.

                        Generally tired. You have no arguments. You stupidly repeat the same thing.
                        Lie and manipulate. All discussions are closed. Get well.
                      8. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 17 January 2022 00: 47
                        -2
                        Quote: 123
                        What is the manipulation? You are not embarrassed that too many people are involved in this "manipulation". Up to the "highly paid clowns from the Pentagon", you alone fight with windmills on a white mustang. Who else besides you thinks so?

                        For example Herbert Efremov.
                        https://iz.ru/695749/sergei-valchenko/massovogo-giperzvukovogo-oruzhiia-ne-stoit-ozhidat
                        By the way, "NPO Mashinostroeniya" developed zircon and avant-garde.

                        Quote: 123
                        You yourself listed the differences from a ballistic missile. You can name it, but you don't. You understand that the point here is not only in achieving hypersonic speed.

                        Some do not name, and some do.

                        Quote: 123
                        What does worker mean?

                        This means that it can independently maintain the hypersonic speed of the device, and not work only when it is tightly bolted to a 10-ton rocket with a rocket engine with a thrust of 168 tf.

                        Quote: 123
                        What's with the DPRK? If they claim that their astronauts have been to the moon, will this mean that the Americans were not there? Just think, why don't the Americans just say that they have hypersound, but are developing it? They also have ballistic missiles.

                        I can only guess, for example, the American hypersound program has been going smoothly for several decades and the military decided to get more funding for Putin's cartoons.

                        Quote: 123
                        What you call the first part of the question is actually not.

                        Yes, consider it how you want. For some reason, I am sure that Academician Fedorov has more competence than all the participants in this forum combined. Is Efremov also old and incompetent?

                        Quote: 123
                        Generally tired. You have no arguments. You stupidly repeat the same thing.
                        Lie and manipulate. All discussions are closed. Get well.

                        They broke down again. :( Only as a person they began to talk.
                      9. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 17 January 2022 15: 08
                        0
                        For example, Herbert Efremov ...
                        For some reason, I am sure that Academician Fedorov has more competence than all the participants in this forum combined. Is Efremov also old and incompetent?

                        What now? Judging by the pictures from the "Max 2017" article for 2017. What does Herbert Efremov think on this issue today?

                        Since 2007 - Honorary General Director, Honorary General Designer of JSC VPK NPO Mashinostroeniya, Advisor to the corporation on science.

                        By the time of writing, he had not had access to information on the topic for 10 years.
                        In addition, he notes the difficulties in moving an object at hypersonic speed in dense layers of the atmosphere (resistance dampens speed, the problem of thermal protection). When addressing these issues...

                        - When creating such a weapon, it is necessary not only to ensure flight in the atmosphere at different altitudes, that is, long-term stable operation of engines and thermal protection, but also to solve a lot of other technical problems. For example, issues of motion control, guidance, the passage of radio waves through plasma. And also providing stealth and maneuvering. All these are the most important issues for weapons, which are being dealt with by specialists in many countries. But, I think, the emergence of mass hypersonic weapons, especially strategic ones, should not be expected. Operational-tactical may appear after some time. But in the same way, worthy means of anti-missile defense against it may appear..

                        A well-deserved and respected pensioner (14 years old not related to development) 4 years ago considered the appearance of mass hypersonic weapons unlikely, but did not rule it out, moreover, he allowed the appearance of not only him, but also anti-missile defense against him. It's all?
                        On the basis of this, you are throwing tantrums here in the style of WILL YOU VIEW THIS PUTIN'S CULTURES?
                        Do you still get offended when people call you crazy? Goodbye. You really got it with your stupidity.
                      10. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 17 January 2022 16: 28
                        -1
                        It says article for January 2018.

                        Quote: 123
                        By the time of writing, he had not had access to information on the topic for 10 years.

                        Some people think that he did.




                        Do you think it's lying?
                        Yes, we have cool old people! In retirement, without access to information on the topic, they create the avant-garde. In the garage, probably riveted at their summer cottage.

                        Quote: 123
                        On the basis of this, you are throwing tantrums here in the style of WILL YOU VIEW THIS PUTIN'S CULTURES?
                        Do you still get offended when people call you crazy? Goodbye. You really got it with your stupidity.

                        Well, here it is again. Why can't you talk like a normal person? Here you both .... lost the argument, but I don’t go over your mental abilities. I understand that if you are wrong, it does not necessarily mean that you are stupid. Not a stupid person can also be mistaken.
                      11. 123 Offline 123
                        123 (123) 17 January 2022 17: 46
                        -1
                        It says article for January 2018.

                        It doesn't matter, a year earlier, a year later. What does it change?

                        Some people think that he did.

                        I had, but for a long time. I repeat...

                        By the time of writing, he had not had access to information on the topic for 10 years.

                        Do you think it's lying?
                        Yes, we have cool old people! In retirement, without access to information on the topic, they create the avant-garde. In the garage, probably riveted at their summer cottage.

                        I think you're lying, or it's outright stupidity.
                        Do you think that he is doing these now? Check out the award video.

                        "Stood at the origins." "The embodiment of your idea." "In 2004, we launched a large-scale work to implement your ideas." "Worthy Receivers". "Point set".

                        There even the name of the receiver is called. What is characteristic of the veteran's objections, they say you are all lying and this is not possible, no.
                        In general, I'm already tired of your nonsense. The discussion is closed. Handle your analytics in Sportloto.
  • Dear sofa expert. 15 January 2022 12: 10
    +1
    In the end, 500 tomahawks will not be repelled by any air defense.

    Justify.)
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 15 January 2022 12: 23
      -4
      Justify what? That air defense systems have finite ammunition?
      1. Dear sofa expert. 15 January 2022 12: 33
        +1
        Justify what? That air defense systems have finite ammunition?

        Start at least with the initial data of your task. Specify:

        500 tomohawks
        - issued from one point?
        - from what distance?
        - at the same time a dense "flock" or scattered in several tens of kilometers?
        Are they all heading towards the same target?

        Defense
        - one launcher?
        - layered system?
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 16 January 2022 11: 09
          -4
          No idea.
          Do you also think that it is possible to shoot at the White House and the response will not arrive?
          1. Dear sofa expert. 16 January 2022 11: 12
            +1
            Do you also think that it is possible to shoot at the White House and the response will not arrive?

            I am for peace.
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 16 January 2022 16: 13
              -2
              What a coincidence, me too. Peace Peace.
      2. Dear sofa expert. 15 January 2022 14: 33
        +2
        Justify what? That air defense systems have finite ammunition?

        You also have a counter question regarding the effectiveness of air defense against the notorious "tomahawks".

        Not so long ago, a volley of 1/9 of the “terrible figure” (500) you indicated was fired across the territory of Syria, or rather 59 Tomahawk missiles. Something didn’t fly at all (weapon quality?), Something went off course (electronic warfare?). In short, a single missile reached the target without causing any significant damage. And all this without any direct use of air defense missiles. And then, apparently, they saw and calculated the flawed trajectory of the approach of this "formidable weapon", and did not want to waste ammunition.

        By the end of the ammunition. So he and the tomahawks are not eternal. In total, from 1980 to the present day, about 7300 of these missiles have been fired. Production has long been discontinued. How many of them are left only and the armament is unknown. They have already shot quite a bit during this time. And the resource they also do not last forever.
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 16 January 2022 11: 10
          -5
          Are you also a believer?
          There are two directly opposite statements: the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the Pentagon (60 released, 59 flew). There is a third source
          https://www.vesty.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4946758,00.html
          Claims that 44 targets were hit, according to their estimates, 58 missiles flew.
          If only a few have flown, where are the rest? Did you fly into space? Where is the photo of the wreckage scattered along the route? How can electronic warfare affect the Tomahawk?

          Quote: Dear sofa expert.
          By the end of the ammunition. So he and the tomahawks are not eternal. In total, from 1980 to the present day, about 7300 of these missiles have been fired. Production has long been discontinued. How many of them are left only and the armament is unknown. They have already shot quite a bit during this time. And the resource they also do not last forever.

          So, can you shoot Zircon at the white house?
          1. Dear sofa expert. 16 January 2022 11: 18
            +1
            So, can you shoot Zircon at the white house?

            You lied, my friend. Well, or at least show me a place in the texts I have written where I suggest this.

            In my opinion, we are still talking about the hypothetical-technical possibility of Russian air defense to repel a strike of 500 tomahawks, or am I mistaken?
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 16 January 2022 16: 41
              -3
              Quote: Dear sofa expert.
              You lied, my friend.

              In what? You seem to be a liar and a slanderer! This "?" in the text usually means a question.
              Well, let's dream two amateurs. 9 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers fire 502 missiles from the Baltic Sea. Suppose they are really not of very high quality and 10% (in my opinion a strong exaggeration) fell apart in the air. 450 can fly. All from the same direction with as little opposition as possible.
              1. Dear sofa expert. 17 January 2022 00: 58
                +1
                In what? You seem to be a liar and a slanderer! This "?" in the text usually means a question.

                You remind me now, with your miserable snarling of “the whole world”, some kind of vile rat, a la Gozman (sorry for the tautology).
              2. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
                Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 17 January 2022 16: 32
                -4
                Difficult weekend?
                Then you can only be sorry.
              3. Dear sofa expert. 17 January 2022 22: 20
                +3
                Difficult weekend?
                Then you can only be sorry.

                Is it really about me???

                You just see for yourself how everyone else here on the forum “appreciates and loves you”.
                Maybe you see yourself here as a kind of "steadfast tin soldier - a tireless fighter against everyone"? You defend some obvious principles, apparently only to you. Do you think everyone but yourself is stupid?
                And in fact what?

                Your worthless disputes with everyone and everything look like it is important for you to stupidly annoy people, causing more and more new waves of indignation from your opponents (if not disgust). It was no coincidence that I compared you with the above-mentioned person - with untidy dirty hair, snot always sticking out of a long nose, and broadcasting all sorts of anti-Russian dirt with his vile voice.
                That's how you see me for some reason. But this is a lyric.)

                But the real assessment of your "principles" here on the forum is reflected in your, to put it mildly, "- not impressive" user authority rating.

                Although to call you stupid, as if "the hand does not rise." You are not stupid!

                Doesn't this hurt your self-esteem, your sense of self-worth, or what ..?
                Masochism is just that.
                Maybe you are just waiting for a manifestation of pity for yourself?
                Then you are on the right track.
                For some reason, it becomes a pity for you.
      3. Dear sofa expert. 16 January 2022 12: 00
        +3
        and the Pentagon (60 released, 59 flew)

        Wow, how accurate you are (where you don't need it).

        I heard about 59, if that matters to you.

        The US military attacked a Syria-government airfield with 59 Tomahawk missiles on Thursday evening.

        https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/04/06/us-military-has-launched-more-50-than-missiles-aimed-at-syria-nbc-news.html

        or here:

        Als Vergeltung für einen mutmaßlichen Giftgasangriff haben die USA einen Luftwaffenstützpunkt in Syrien attackiert. Nach Angaben des Pentagons wurden 59 Marschflugkörper des Types "Tomahawk"

        https://amp.n-tv.de/politik/USA-bombardieren-syrische-Luftwaffenbasis-article19783876.html

        There are no more doubts about the number of missiles fired, in my opinion?

        As for the effectiveness of the strike, there is of course a lot of speculation. Everyone is trying to pull the blanket over themselves. Your this "photoshop" from Israel only confirms this.

        Personally, I do not need to be convinced by all sorts of "horror stories". I then closely followed these events in real time. I read the first, most relevant reports (I mean Western editions as well). Everywhere there was complete disappointment with the effect of this blow. Specific figures were also given: how many were launched, how many took off, how many flew, where and what got, what damage was inflicted .. and so on. Today it is difficult or impossible to find this information. What needs to be corrected, or simply deleted. Where I copied for myself any links to my archive, today it highlights: "404".
        Yes, Oleg .. unfortunately, this is the reality of the “honest” information space in the West you love.
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 16 January 2022 17: 19
          -3
          Quote: Dear sofa expert.
          As for the effectiveness of the strike, there is of course a lot of speculation. Everyone is trying to pull the blanket over themselves. Your this "photoshop" from Israel only confirms this.

          Yes Yes. If the data confirms your point of view, then this is the undoubted Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, which never lies. If the data contradict, then "photoshop". This is clear.

          Quote: Dear sofa expert.
          Everywhere there was complete disappointment with the effect of this blow. What needs to be corrected, or simply deleted. Where I copied for myself any links to my archive, today it highlights: "404".

          Yes Yes. World w-Masonic conspiracy. Supporters of the conspiracy theory do not even care how this can be organized, what forces should be spent on it. And most importantly, it is not clear why.

          Quote: Dear sofa expert.
          Yes, Oleg .. unfortunately, this is the reality of the “honest” information space in the West you love.

          This is your reality. And the information space is common, in the West, in Russia, in China with their vaunted firewall.

          You know what reminds me of? Before military talk about little bloodshed in foreign territory. That then these conversations were based on about nothing (and what they instilled in it), that now it’s like a rocket of the wrong system. Although they have been in operation for 40 years, hundreds of launches have been made, including combat ones. And put them on the latest ships. It must be believed that the Americans.
  • 123 Offline 123
    123 (123) 12 January 2022 23: 36
    +4
    In response, he will fly to the Kremlin window and what next?

    The window is closed there. Moscow is the only city on the planet that has a reliable air defense and missile defense system. And they will try to throw a lecture on the impudent red face, they themselves have not been worthy to build such a system.
    1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 12 January 2022 23: 47
      -6
      It seemed to me that you are a sane person and you will not seriously talk about the crazy idea of ​​launching Cercones through the windows of the White House.
      1. 123 Offline 123
        123 (123) 13 January 2022 00: 02
        +3
        It seemed to me that you are a sane person and you will not seriously talk about the crazy idea of ​​launching Cercones through the windows of the White House.

        And you don't seem sane to me for a long time No. It's not a problem for you to launch a rocket into the Kremlin's window, but in this case they will receive a response, you think it is madness.
        1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 January 2022 00: 06
          -6
          You don't seem to me anymore either. Dear Mikhail L. offered to launch zircons through the windows of the White House, I just pointed out to him that such an action would not remain unanswered. And you go there too.
          1. 123 Offline 123
            123 (123) 13 January 2022 00: 24
            +2
            You don't seem to me anymore either. Dear Mikhail L. offered to launch zircons into the windows of the White House, I just pointed out to him that such an action would not remain unanswered. And you go there too.

            Did I call to launch a rocket at the White House? You dreamed.
            1. Oleg Rambover Offline Oleg Rambover
              Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 13 January 2022 16: 40
              -6
              And I called to launch a rocket at the Kremlin? You dreamed. I just assumed the US reaction to the idea dear Mikhail L. run into the white house Zircon. Yeah ... I got excited about sanity.
  • Teacher Offline Teacher
    Teacher (Wise) 11 January 2022 17: 51
    +2
    1. Placement of tactical nuclear weapons and their carriers on the territory of Belarus. The weapon will remain Russian and under the control of specialists from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, but it is necessary to officially declare its use in the event of aggression against the Republic of Belarus. By analogy with American nuclear weapons in Germany.
    2. Buy out all uranium mined in Kakhakhstan, limiting its supply to the external market. If this is not done ALREADY.
    3. Strengthen military-technical cooperation with China in every possible way, up to the inclusion of China in the CSTO. It will be a strong move.
    4. Expand military-technical cooperation with ardent opponents of the United States and Great Britain - the DPRK, Iran, Venezuela. To officially abandon the embargo on the sale of advanced (and sensitive for our "friends") weapons systems to them - for example, the Bastion anti-ship complexes, S-400 systems and supply them. Promote the development of Iran's nuclear program, including the production of nuclear weapons. Do it openly.
    5. Continue to economically nightmare Ukraine. Actually, this is already being done. Declare official military-technical cooperation with the LPNR as opposed to the NATO countries pumping Ukraine with weapons. To supply high-precision weapons to the LDNR army corps, the most suitable for maximizing enemy losses in trench warfare - guided shells and mines, complete with drones for target designation. You can put it "in a set" with our calculations-vacationers ".
    Farther:
    6. Immediately recognize the DPR-LPR within the boundaries of their regions, while the uncontrolled part today, recognize the lands occupied by Ukraine.
    7. Recognize the PMR and twist Ukraine and Moldova (do not say that this is impossible) hands on the provision of a transport corridor to it.
    8. We need to think about Karabakh, but a military base will not hurt.
    9. Finally, to rein in the hucksters who trade with Ukraine. The United States has a law prohibiting trade with enemies of the state. Why not in Russia?
    10. About New Russia to write or not?
    11. Written on paper Decrees recognizing the DPR-LPR-PMR will immediately stop shelling and blockades. The lives of hundreds of thousands of people grateful to Russia will be saved.
  • baltika3 Offline baltika3
    baltika3 (baltika3) 11 January 2022 18: 21
    +3
    Quote: Slon1978
    up to the inclusion of China in the CSTO

    This means that instead of the Russian Federation, China will automatically become the main one, and Putin will have to go to Beijing for instructions, as Rahmon now goes to Moscow. The CSTO was not created for this.
    Most of the other measures do not bear any particular damage to the United States - they will simply formalize the final breakdown of any relations with the West and the total isolation of the Russian Federation. Which, perhaps, is for the best for both parties, who are clearly deadly tired of each other.
  • Radziminsky Victor (Radziminsky Victor) 11 January 2022 21: 26
    +1
    Very good - as planned, the US-NATO refuses to comply with the Kremlin's "ultimatum".
    And it means that Russia can now reasonably recognize the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics.

    And gradually, JUSTIFIED, - to begin to restore the territorial integrity of these
    new Independent States of Donbass. And this is not an easy task.

    And without any fantasies about Syria, Cuba, Iran ... And global wars ...
    Russia will accept the new Independent States of Donbass - into any unions and associations.
    And these will be concrete, real responses from the Kremlin - to the actions of the impudent West.
    We will see what will begin to happen in crazy Ukraine.
    But this is not a war, not an invasion, but simply the recognition of the new Independent States.
  • assault 2019 Offline assault 2019
    assault 2019 (assault 2019) 11 January 2022 23: 48
    +2
    10 years of outright betrayal of their own interests,
    the next 20 years of empty promises and companionship are the real results of Russia's foreign policy.
    And after that, expect that the world will suddenly begin to take us seriously after some not entirely intelligible statements?
    This is of course the height of optimism and unprofessionalism ...
  • Teaser Offline Teaser
    Teaser (Vasiliy) 12 January 2022 01: 44
    -1
    In a bad way - how is it? Bomb Voronezh?
  • ksa Offline ksa
    ksa 12 January 2022 20: 54
    0
    The main weapon of Russia is gas. Include all NATO countries in the list of hostile states. Stop all contracts with them. Prohibit traffic flows to these countries through our territory by air, land, and water (raw materials from Russia, Kazakhstan, goods from China). Well, and (no matter how much I would like to) it will be necessary to destroy the American and NATO bases in the adjoining countries according to the Israeli principle. You need to start with the numerous American biological laboratories near our borders (by the way, even in "friendly" Kazakhstan there are, in the CSTO b! Lt !!!)
  • Alexey A Offline Alexey A
    Alexey A (Alexey A) 12 January 2022 21: 56
    +2
    We need to start with a simple one - to cut off all natural gas supplies to Europe, except through SP-2. Secondly, to revoke the recognition of intellectual property (patents, licenses, etc.) of Western countries on the territory of Russia and provide an opportunity for their reproduction to any interested parties (the so-called compulsory license). Third, declare a moratorium on the repayment of our companies' debts to Western creditors. Fourth, to impose an embargo on the export of heavy oil, uranium and titanium to the United States. This is with regard to primary economic measures. Political measures - recognition of the LDNR and the establishment of diplomatic relations with them, the conclusion of a military alliance by accepting the CSTO. Military measures - physical destruction of military bases and biological laboratories of NATO countries on the territory of Ukraine and Georgia. Placement of the "Skif" systems on the bottom territory in neutral waters along the perimeter of Europe and the USA, as well as Canada (for which it is necessary to withdraw from the relevant Non-Placement Agreement). Placement of the "Club-K" container systems with "Calibers" and "Zircons" on all merchant ships that go around the USA and Europe. Blockage of the Suez Canal, Bab-El-Mandep Strait, the Persian Gulf, the Panama Canal by flooding large ships in them by unknown insurgents. Arming LDNR fighters with air defense systems and granting them the right to shoot down foreign military aircraft arriving with military cargo in Ukraine as a preventive defense against aggression. And this is just for the beginning!