Kazakhstan - a wrong move of the West, leading to the revival of the Union


I will not describe in detail the current situation in Kazakhstan - everything is said and shown every hour literally in real time, whoever is interested - they know. We can only state the fact that the next "revolution" in the post-Soviet space has failed miserably.


The leadership of Kazakhstan, at first clearly frightened, quickly recovered from the first shocks and promptly turned to the CSTO, as well as directly to Putin. This saved them. Although at first everything looked rather pale: apparently, even on our own power structures, especially the army and police, it was impossible to count on one hundred percent. In addition to the obvious internal alignment, the recent example of the recently fraternal Ukraine put the local security officials in an extremely difficult position - who knows how everything will turn out there and what external forces are involved (and no one had any doubts that they were involved), so you will start your the duty to fulfill in accordance with the oath, and then you will be brought to your knees for it, like the Ukrainian "Berkut" ...

So the very fact of President Tokayev's appeal for military assistance to the allies in collective security has dispelled many well-founded doubts of many people in uniform. And as soon as the first "Ilys" of the Russian Aerospace Forces began to arrive in the country, even hotheads from among the next newly-made "revolutionaries" began to cool down. Those who still have something to lose, of course. As the peacekeeping forces quickly deployed and took various important government and infrastructure facilities under their protection, the hands of local, rather small, reliable special forces began to free themselves for active actions to clean the streets from terrorists. Yes, and their courage, too, clearly arrived - now, few people doubt the outcome of the battle.

Now everything is happening exactly according to this plan - a small, but just in case, to the teeth armed peacekeeping mission, for the most part with extensive real combat experience, does not get involved in battles, but goes over all security duties. Formally, the "Western partners", without whom everything could not do without, have nothing to complain about - the UN was informed that the Kazakhs themselves are engaged in the cleanup. The President of the country issued the involved security forces an unambiguous order to shoot to kill and without warning. Everything is clear. And the lightning-fast operation of the Russian Aerospace Forces on the transfer of troops leaves no illusions - if anything, we will pull up as much as necessary, and no one will seem a little. Here, from our side, everyone has clearly learned the Ukrainian experience and mistakes will not be repeated.

The first of the peacekeeping units to arrive were the Russians and Belarusians. Lukashenka himself has literally just been in a similar situation, so he obviously did not think for a long time. Asian neighbors, who are also kind of multi-vector, scratched their heads for a while, looked to the West and who to the East, but they quickly understood the emerging alignment - if the Kazakhs have this next “colored Maidan” triumph, then they themselves will inevitably await the same. And there, and conventional apartments in Rostov, this is also, one might say, a happy ending, given the local temperament and long traditions of eastern philanthropy ... so the troops really went to the rescue from all sides, and the best ones.

On the other hand, complete confusion and confusion, if not fear, is clearly visible. The fact that everything that is happening in Kazakhstan is now directly related to the upcoming negotiations between Russia and the West, I hope, no one doubts. And this attempt to "strike from behind" and, if not to seize the initiative, then at least to strengthen its own negotiating position, shows in all its glory how weak this position is at the moment. And the latest statement by the newly-minted "leader of the Kazakh opposition" Mr. Ablyazov finally finished off the whole situation. The fugitive criminal oligarch based in the West openly declares that his headquarters are located not somewhere, but ... in Ukraine.

It is difficult to believe that he is acting, being in France himself, on his own. This is something from the series Tihanovskaya and Guaido. But the "bench" of our "sworn partners" is already clearly empty, since such characters are attracted. And there is also a problem with professional organizers. How will the Kazakh leadership react to the fact that the headquarters, which allegedly started this whole bloodbath in their country and decided to overthrow them in this way, is located in Kiev? Well, they are unlikely to thank the Ukrainians. And who there, in Kiev, actually rules everyone, has also been known for a long time. So, after all this, Kazakhstan is also unlikely to scatter into the arms of the West. But he has already fled to the place where they will help, to the only place - the CSTO and Moscow. Yes, and to the collective West, to their standard bleating "about the need to negotiate with the protesters and not use force against them," the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan also responded unexpectedly harshly - you went, they say, there ... with your similar advice, how their execution ends all known.

One thing is surprising: not only do the “partners”, not bothering to invent something new, still work hard according to the old manuals, but even on their own, already according to the same manuals, the mistakes they make do not learn! A living example is Belarus and the recent attempt at a similar coup there. The result is an instant increase in rapprochement with Russia within the framework of the union state. They themselves, in the West, according to their own words, are more than anything in the world afraid of something like the revival of the USSR, but they themselves are doing exactly this, literally pushing the former Soviet republics back to each other. Conclusion: either there are absolutely no professionals who are really capable of something, or their situation is now so critical that they start to make mistake after mistake in panic.

It is clear that all post-Soviet states are literally packed with Western agents and structures of influence. But all this is clearly used in a hurry. They were preparing, and they had long-term plans, they were sure that nothing could interfere with their implementation ... But Putin suddenly struck a preemptive blow, which took them all by surprise. And in such a "out of place" that it is not even possible to hide it. And all the retaliatory steps of our adversary's situation only complicate and worsen. This has been said many times - Vladimir Vladimirovich has put the collective West in a position called "zugzwang" in chess, where any move only worsens the player's situation. But they, nevertheless, still try to move, and each of this very move really only worsens everything. There are only two ways out of "zugzwang" in the game - it is worthy to surrender immediately or to lose after a while. The first option is for the more sober and calculating, the second for the more stubborn. It is very interesting to watch the finale of this game, brilliantly played by the Russian president.

If the enemy continues to try to "move the pieces on the board" in this way, then the parts of the former Soviet Union will inevitably move closer and closer to each other back ... I definitely do not believe in the restoration of the USSR in its former form. But if, for example, the Union State of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus expands somewhat into the Caucasus and in the Asian direction, then the situation may look extremely interesting. For the West, it seems to me, it will be even worse than the appearance of a new Russian miracle weapon. And with him? It's scary to think. This is no longer a return to 1991, but something more similar to 1949 ...
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  1. ser-pov Offline ser-pov
    ser-pov (Sergei) 8 January 2022 09: 58
    +3
    It will still be very interesting if the CSTO is replenished not only with the countries of the post-Soviet space, but also, for example, China, etc. This will be the bomb.
    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 10: 29
      .
      To revive the USSR, it is necessary to dramatically increase the population of Russia to 300 million. Make a technological breakthrough. Achieve annual economic growth of 5%. Fight poverty and unemployment, raise the level of consumption, improve working conditions and wages, develop social infrastructure, clean up practically non-working "social elevators", toughen the fight against corruption and systemic crime, which is increasingly merging with the authorities. To reduce the number of drug addicts, drunks, AIDS-carriers, HIV-infected.
      This is an impossible task in the crumbling post-Soviet space.
      For the CPC Central Committee, neighbors are only a source of territories and raw materials. No one dares to compare with the Han, even if they speak fluent Chinese.
      1. Yuri Palaznik Online Yuri Palaznik
        Yuri Palaznik (Yuri Palaznik) 8 January 2022 20: 18
        -6
        Yes, working conditions in Russia have come down to the handle. Worse only in Bangladesh, probably. Certainly, of course, you cannot say, somewhere at a height, somewhere below the baseboard.
    2. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 8 January 2022 15: 06
      -1
      Quote: ser-pov
      It will still be very interesting if the CSTO is replenished not only with the countries of the post-Soviet space, but also, for example, China, etc. This will be the bomb.

      Well I do not know. It is unlikely that Putin wants to become a vassal of the Chinese emperor's celestial power.
      1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 26
        .
        He has to be the raw material support of the PRC, which is why he gets media from the State Department.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Komissarov Pavel (Komissarov Pavel) 9 January 2022 08: 56
          +2
          Quote: gunnerminer
          He has to be the raw material support of the PRC, which is why he gets media from the State Department.

          What a dumb bot went. Your Russian is a non-native language, or what? Do you at least read that you fence.
          1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
            gunnerminer (gunner miner) 9 January 2022 11: 47
            -7
            The site madeunasru proudly wrote about an industrial exhibition in the PRC last year. A Russian company for the production of wooden combs was presented at the exhibition. And the PRC industry is helping with electronic basing of the Russian military-industrial complex. When in 2015 on TV they showed a broken black box with a Su-24M, Chinese parts were visible.
    3. Vladest Offline Vladest
      Vladest (Vladimir) 8 January 2022 23: 55
      -1
      Quote: ser-pov
      for example China

      Why does China need it? They will snap their fingers and Putin on two legs is right there. Isn't it obvious how the GDP is reaching out to China with all its might. And China? For China, Russia is 100 billion of FIVE TRILLION trade turnover. The main partners of China in trade are the USA and the EU, and for the sake of the Russian Federation China will be deprived of a market of almost a billion population?
      1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 January 2022 16: 56
        +1
        You, dear, have a too primitive idea about international politics in general, and about China's policy in particular ...
  2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 10: 07
    .
    Formally, the "Western partners", without whom everything could not do without, have nothing to complain about - the UN was informed that the Kazakhs themselves are engaged in the cleanup.

    It is convenient for Western partners to blame all the blunders and failures in the shaky post-Soviet space. They corrupted the KNB with Arystan, taught their business to turn out their pockets. The border guards were seduced by drug trafficking, taught Nazarbayev's localism to breed tribalism.

    But Putin suddenly struck a preemptive strike that took them all by surprise.

    And what kind of blow is this? Where are the lying corpses of the State Department, NATO, Erdogan and Zedensky?
  3. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
    Mikhail L. 8 January 2022 10: 31
    +2
    ... So the Union State a la the USSR can be created not by the desire of the former Union republics to unite, but solely due to an external factor: the stupidity of the collective West?
    ... Such a union cannot be viable from the outset!
    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 10: 39
      .
      Relying on the enemy's weakness and stupidity is a pre-conscription motive.
      1. Vyacheslav 64 Offline Vyacheslav 64
        Vyacheslav 64 (Vyacheslav) 9 January 2022 02: 45
        +2
        Bravo! So all your texts just permeate with mriyas about the stupidity and weakness of the Russian leadership :) Maybe that's why your fellow tribesmen can't tear themselves away from Polish pots and beds? :)
        1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
          Mikhail L. 10 January 2022 08: 18
          0
          Come to Kiev and walk along Khreshchatyk with the Russian tricolor.
          Fresh mriyas will inevitably appear in your head! ;-(
    2. Alexander Matyukhin (Alexander Matyukhin) 8 January 2022 13: 14
      +1
      What is artificially created is not viable. If the trend reflects a natural process, then the result may be viable.
    3. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 13: 37
      +6
      Based on your theses, the most unviable association in the world is NATO, created solely for the sake of opposing the USSR.
      And if you look at history, then almost all alliances of different, but living close to themselves peoples were created under the influence or threats of external factors. Only the colonial empires united in a different way
      1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
        Mikhail L. 8 January 2022 13: 52
        0
        Do not distort: ​​the USSR did not drive NATO members into this Alliance with its stupidity!
        And in principle: it is incorrect to compare voluntary political and economic associations with a military alliance.
        For example, a relatively relevant EU: there are numerous "Eurosceptics", and Great Britain has already voluntarily left it ... "out of the stupidity of the Russian Federation"!
        1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 14: 32
          0
          And in principle: it is incorrect to compare voluntary political and economic associations with a military alliance.

          - I apologize, but this "voluntary political-economic" is you talking about the North Atlantic Alliance or what? Proceeding from the fact that the CSTO is already a military alliance by its name?
          And I did not mention the EU. Although it was originally organized so that Europe could economically withstand the rapidly developing world of new "tigers", which simply did not exist until the end of the twentieth century. That is, again, under the influence of purely external factors, and not at all because the Poles adore the Germans, but those, for example, the French or the Greeks ...
          1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
            Mikhail L. 8 January 2022 16: 07
            +1
            "It's not at all like that": the same competition of "new tigers" - which knocked European countries into the EU - is not the result of forced external stupidity!
            1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
              Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 16: 57
              +1
              And who said that the external factor is just stupidity? This can be aggressiveness, the expansion of the vital interests of other peoples or states on the territory, and so on. By the way, all this is often the fruit of absolute confidence in one's own righteousness, the unsurpassed system of government and organization of the state, faith in one's own "special mission" on the planet, conviction in the underdevelopment of other peoples ... That is, everything that is so characteristic of the expansion of the West anywhere throughout human history.
              Although, and all this can also be called historical stupidity ...
              1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
                Mikhail L. 8 January 2022 18: 05
                0
                Dear! Why this scholasticism, although you have the right to your opinion.
                But I believe that "love marriage" and "forced marriage" are "two big differences"!
                1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
                  Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 18: 55
                  +2
                  Scholasticism is to compare marriage to relations between states. And, mind you, I did not start it ... wink
                  By the way, quite a lot of marriages are also concluded by calculation or simply with a convenient partner. And without much love, and without compulsion. This is more like a relationship in foreign policy ...
                  1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
                    Mikhail L. 8 January 2022 20: 22
                    +1
                    By definition: "Scholasticism": "Knowledge divorced from life, based on abstract reasoning, not verified by experience, literalism" - but not comparison! ("And, mind you, I didn't start it"!)
                    A "marriage of convenience" (not under duress!) Is water to my mill!
                    1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
                      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 23: 08
                      0
                      ... scholasticism has quite a few different lengthy definitions, the same as scholasticism itself laughing , but in general, if in simple terms, it’s talking about nothing.
                      Y-yes, and with marriage you are in this very scholasticism, I see, finally plunged headlong ... laughing
                      1. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
                        Mikhail L. 9 January 2022 09: 40
                        0
                        As a result: "cleverness" was reduced to rudeness.
                        This is an irrefutable "argument"! ;-(
                      2. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 January 2022 16: 54
                        +1
                        ... and what is rudeness on my part in this case? Can you explain, if not difficult? And preferably without scholasticism ...
                      3. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
                        Mikhail L. 9 January 2022 17: 14
                        -1
                        Ask "smart" questions "preferably" to your spouse.
                        It is a lot of honor to be distracted by you in the future! ;-(
                      4. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 January 2022 22: 10
                        +1
                        As a result: "cleverness" was reduced to rudeness.
                        This is an irrefutable "argument"!

                        well, something like that. And, unlike YOU, I will define rudeness here specifically: I am definitely not with YOU on YOU. And the phrase itself is not boorish to call it difficult.
                        There are definitely no arguments, as well as answers to specific questions. No mind, no fantasy, as they say ...
                        It is understandable why you do not introduce yourself by your full name. hi
                      5. Mikhail L. Offline Mikhail L.
                        Mikhail L. 9 January 2022 22: 15
                        -1
                        There will not be a third time: "It is a lot of honor to be distracted by you in the future!" ;-(
                      6. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
                        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 January 2022 22: 22
                        +1
                        There will be no third time

                        oh-oh-oh-oh, you even, as I see it, have trouble counting to ten ... No.
                        In that case, right, do not get distracted! I recommend in general to concentrate more on each of your actions - I sat down, got up, turned my head. Carefully! At this stage, every distraction is extremely dangerous! laughing laughing laughing
  • gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 27
    .
    Your country is a NATO member.
    1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 17: 34
      +2
      Maybe this is also why I know much more about NATO than you do? yes
      1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 51
        .
        Write about it on their resources laughing But they can send you to Russia for permanent residence, which is worse for you than a nuclear strike.
        1. Vyacheslav 64 Offline Vyacheslav 64
          Vyacheslav 64 (Vyacheslav) 9 January 2022 02: 49
          0
          How do you rush to NATO, just like a teenager in a girl's ward in a pioneer camp :) Well, yes, they will come, feed, drink, fight for you!
  • Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 8 January 2022 15: 09
    -1
    Quote: Pyshenkov
    Based on your theses, the most unviable association in the world is NATO,

    It seems to me that there is a certain amount of truth in your words. Probably now NATO generals every Sunday in church pray for Putin's health and light candles.
    1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 15: 29
      +2
      ... the generals are unlikely - they understand what all this means to them. Perhaps unfortunate politicians, but in fact mediocre officials like Stoltenberg or Blinkin, but precisely because they still do not fully understand what this means. Yes, it seems like there is a new breath and a reason for the existence of the Alliance. But only now it was so good and comfortable for him to exist only until there were no real adequate opponents. And if there is, the situation radically changes, it is no longer for you to hold victorious meetings, solemnly expand wherever you want, or bomb and iron by many times superior forces of those who cannot answer. At this point, they themselves can be ironed out, if that ...
      And this is a different alignment. And there is a reason to pray, but certainly not for the health of VVP, but for your own ...
      1. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 8 January 2022 15: 57
        -2
        I think all the same the generals. They are the main beneficiaries in the west. For Stoltenberg or Blinkin, this is a diversion of resources from internal problems.

        Quote: Pyshenkov
        But only now it was so good and comfortable for him to exist only until there were no real adequate opponents.

        He did well during the Cold War as well. And the Russian Federation is not the USSR. And the CSTO is not the Warsaw Pact. And then everything was much more serious.

        Quote: Pyshenkov
        Here they themselves can be ironed out, if that ...
        And this is a different alignment.

        The alignment has not changed since the Caribbean crisis. If the sides begin to iron each other, then nothing will be left of the sides. Therefore, everyone understands that no one will iron anyone.
        1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 17: 03
          +2
          I understand and respect your opinion, but I disagree
          - firstly, it is not the generals who receive the maximum profit from the confrontation. Of course, they have salaries and bonuses ogogo, but they are far from the profits of various politicians and the corporations involved in the process under their protection.
          - secondly, ironing the enemy is not necessary in an all-out war, everyone understands this. But in various local conflicts, where, as in the times of the USSR, we were still opposed to the West, and not to some local kings, this is exactly what I am talking about, and what is now happening in many points, Kazakhstan and Ukraine is not excluding
          - thirdly, unlike the present moment, the USSR never had a technological advantage over the West in the defense sphere. And now it is
          1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
            gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 55
            .
            thirdly, unlike the present moment, the USSR never had a technological advantage over the West in the defense sphere. And now it is

            Advantage? Where did it come from? From dampness? Without a modern electronic industry, a modern chemical industry, without robotization, or with a modern machine-tool industry. The tiny Czech Republic has a larger volume of mechanical engineering than Russia. The growing lag in aircraft construction, shipbuilding, shipbuilding, and the automotive industry ...
            1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
              Dart2027 8 January 2022 20: 15
              -3
              Quote: gunnerminer
              Not having a modern electronic industry, a modern chemical industry, not having robotization, or having a modern machine-tool industry. The tiny Czech Republic has a larger volume of mechanical engineering than Russia. The growing lag in aircraft construction, shipbuilding, shipbuilding, and the automotive industry.

              Are you talking about the USSR?
              1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                gunnerminer (gunner miner) 9 January 2022 11: 23
                -7
                About modern Russia.
                1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                  Dart2027 9 January 2022 11: 28
                  -1
                  Truth? Do you want to compare the products of the automobile industry of the USSR and its contemporaries, say, in Germany? Or remember who built the floating docks, like the PD-50 drowned from old age? or on what machines did the screws for the 3rd generation nuclear submarine be made?
                  1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 9 January 2022 11: 36
                    -7
                    USC, not only a floating dock, cannot build a corvette in 7 years. The floating dock was recently ordered in Turkey. The possibilities of Russian shipbuilding are much less than the limited Soviet ones. Plus problems with engines. UDC in Kerch began to build according to an unapproved project, without a specific decision on the main engine. Theft is the worst in the military-industrial complex. And the eye of theft in shipbuilding and ship repair. The Soviet shipbuilding and ship repairs were stealing in moderation, and the Russian was immeasurably prohibitive.
                  2. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 January 2022 12: 45
                    0
                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    UDC in Kerch began to build according to an unapproved project, without a specific decision on the main engine.

                    Will there be a song about the fact that we can do nothing without the products of Saturn?

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    And the eye of theft in shipbuilding and ship repair. Soviet shipbuilding and ship repair stole in moderation

                    And who measured this measure? However, there are no objections to the above facts?
                  3. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 9 January 2022 13: 08
                    -8
                    Saturn. About the case with the gas turbine on the frigate Admiral Golovko silence. For the main event, this ship, with a gas turbine and a Russian-made gearbox, is not dressed up.
                    This is measured by Bastrykin in an embrace with the military counterintelligence and the Prosecutor General's Office. Val of criminal cases.
                  4. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 January 2022 13: 36
                    0
                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    About the affairs of the GTU on the frigate Admiral Golovko silence.

                    AND? Do you have to shout about every installed pipe? The ship is under construction and no one says anything about the failure to meet the deadline.

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    This is measured by Bastrykin in an embrace with the military counterintelligence and the Prosecutor General's Office. Val of criminal cases.

                    And in the USSR too?
                  5. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 9 January 2022 16: 27
                    -8
                    This is where the story of the successes of the Saturnovsky work collective paused. There is never a breakdown, and no one speaks. They learn about them in silence. In the USSR, they stole in moderation. The pace of supplying the Armed Forces with equipment was not so drastically affected as it is now. In the US, in the military-industrial complex, they steal in such a way that Russian thieves do not even dream, but at the same time they remember the construction plan.
                  6. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 January 2022 21: 46
                    -1
                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    About breakdowns never, and no one speaks.

                    In the USSR they never spoke, but now they do, and often in advance and officially.

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    In the USSR, they stole in moderation.

                    And how to define this measure.
                  7. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 9 January 2022 22: 05
                    -5
                    For example, they did not say anything about the readiness of the gas turbine with a gearbox, and the second Maidan rumbled with might and main. They did not say about the disruption of the construction of the 677 diesel engines. About the fire of the BOD Kerch, about the drowning of the B-380 diesel engine (800 million rubles were spent on its repair).
                  8. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                    Dart2027 9 January 2022 22: 58
                    0
                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    For example, they did not say anything about the readiness of a gas turbine with a gearbox, and the second Maidan rumbled with might and main.

                    Didn't their own production of gas turbines start just after the Maidan?

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    They did not talk about the disruption of the construction of the diesel engines of the 677 project.

                    And I read about it every year.

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    About the fire of the BOD Kerch, about the drowning of the B-380 diesel (

                    And what was it hiding? I remember everything, everything was in the press.
                  9. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 10 January 2022 00: 41
                    -4
                    The first frigate of the Great Martyr was equipped with a Ukrainian gas turbine with a reducer. The second one was equipped with a Russian-made gas turbine and a reducer, and the drumbeat gave way to silence. "Launched" is when a frigate with Russian products successfully goes to sea for the main event, and the rest of the deliveries will follow.
                    Regarding the 677 project of the Main Command of the Navy, the press service of the Navy did not say anything like that. Information leaked from near the military media, and the same is true about the fires.
                  10. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
                    Dart2027 10 January 2022 19: 33
                    -1
                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    The second was equipped with a gas turbine unit and a Russian-made gearbox.

                    And you don't even know what exactly the gearbox was made in Ukraine before?

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    "Launched" is when a frigate with Russian products

                    Well, wait until it is completed, what's the problem?

                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    Information leaked from near military media.

                    AND? The official well-known media wrote about what the military told them quite openly.
  • Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
    Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 8 January 2022 21: 40
    -3
    Quote: Pyshenkov
    - firstly, it is not the generals who receive the maximum profit from the confrontation. Of course, they have salaries and bonuses ogogo, but they are far from the profits of various politicians and the corporations involved in the process under their protection.

    Of course, I was not particularly interested in the issue, but they say on TV that Europe is suffering losses from anti-Russian sanctions. It's hard to imagine how you can bask on this. The military-industrial complex is possible, but so far no explosive growth of military budgets has been noticeable. The only obvious profit, if 10-15 years ago the question of the need for NATO arose, now there is no such question.

    Quote: Pyshenkov
    - secondly, ironing the enemy is not necessary in an all-out war, everyone understands this. But in various local conflicts, where, as in the times of the USSR, we were still opposed to the West, and not to some local kings, this is exactly what I am talking about, and what is now happening in many points, Kazakhstan and Ukraine is not excluding

    Well, here you can begin to roll a whole. Or volume.
    In short, during the Soviet era, it was a confrontation between two systems. Then the issues of material resources were secondary. The struggle (and wars) was primarily for the minds. The USSR tried to export socialism, the "West" (mainly the USA) tried to resist this expansion. By the way, modern China is the result of this confrontation. Now there is no talk of fighting for minds. Now the central "office" is competing with a poorly controlled branch for control over flows and resources. One side is not fundamentally different from the other.
    By the way, both then and now the parties used the local situations for their own purposes, and did not create it. The ability to organize something from outside is very limited, if not impossible. The problems of both Kazakhstan and Ukraine are primarily internal, and the influence of external players on them should not be overestimated.
    It should be added that the fight for the minds was much bloodier than the fight for "loot" now. The victims of the war in Afghanistan and Vietnam numbered in the millions.

    Quote: Pyshenkov
    - thirdly, unlike the present moment, the USSR never had a technological advantage over the West in the defense sphere. And now it is

    I find it hard to believe. The USSR was the second economy in the world, the Russian Federation was the sixth, and less than the American one by an order of magnitude. In the USSR, the population was twice as large as in the Russian Federation now. Science and technology are also primarily a matter of resources. The USSR obviously had more of them. And the United States has even more.
    1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 23: 16
      +3
      Then the issues of material resources were secondary.

      dear, if you still adhere to this view, then on all other topics you can not even argue. From the beginning of human existence to our days, ALL known conflicts initially arose ONLY ON THE SOIL OF MATERIAL RESOURCES under any sauces - religious, such as crusades, national, racial, ideological, etc., etc. As well as for different resources - a banana grove, a source of water, pastures, women, slaves, land, minerals or other natural resources, access to the seas or trade routes and so on to infinity ...
      1. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
        Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 January 2022 01: 47
        -3
        Dear, if you still adhere to the views of the XNUMXth century, this does not mean that they are correct. What resources was the United States looking for in Vietnam? What resources was the USSR looking for in Afghanistan? This is the last war in Karabakh. What resources are there? Herds of rams? All these Azerbaijani preparations and the war itself cost billions of dollars. What can it cost so much in this Karabakh? Only the idea that Karabakh is originally an Azerbaijani land. It is difficult to make a man fight for loot. Especially someone else's. It's much easier for an idea.
        1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
          Dart2027 9 January 2022 11: 32
          +1
          Quote: Oleg Rambover
          What resources was the United States looking for in Vietnam? What resources was the USSR looking for in Afghanistan?

          There are no resources on the Kursk salient, but hundreds of thousands died on it - do not confuse the battlefield and the purpose of the war.
          1. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
            Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 9 January 2022 13: 24
            -3
            The comparison is not very correct. Compare a battle in a war and a whole war.
          2. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
            Dart2027 9 January 2022 13: 33
            0
            Quote: Oleg Rambover
            Compare a battle in a war and a whole war.

            On the scale of the confrontation between the superpowers on the global map, if it was impossible to converge directly, these were just battles.
      2. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
        Pishenkov (Alexey) 9 January 2022 16: 50
        +2
        In Karabakh, the war between the two peoples is over territory - a vital resource. In Afghanistan and Vietnam, they fought for key points in the region. This is if you take the United States and the USSR, and the Vietnamese and Afghans fought for their land. National pride, religions, political ideas and ideologies are just ways to involve large masses of people in conflicts, to whom it is extremely difficult to explain these very basic goals, like you. Any national liberation movement, for example, is a fight of a certain people, from whom someone else took originally its territory, and, accordingly, a vital resource, for their own profit.
        The most honest of the modern conquerors was in this sense Adolf Hitler - yes, the destruction of communism as a world evil, world Jewry, as the same was declared there, but LEBENSRAUM was at the forefront - living space and resources for the German people at the reproach of everyone else ... Tough, but honest.
        And now new conquerors hang up various noodles about democracy, values, human rights and other rubbish for you and you like mugs. And you seem to be successfully hawking it. And the goals are still the same - markets, resources, living spaces and the destruction of competition.
        And, I repeat, if you don’t understand THIS, then, in principle, there’s nothing to talk to you about in terms of politics.
        And to spend my time on your education, and even free, is definitely not for me. You are clearly not the most stupid person, just education and outlook are not enough. So I think, if you want to and from time to time, you can handle it yourself, unless of course you want hi
        1. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
          Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 11 January 2022 21: 30
          -2
          Quote: Pyshenkov
          In Karabakh, the war between the two peoples is over territory - a vital resource.

          Aaaa ... Living space.
          States, peoples do not have reason, they have no desires. People have reason and desires. The Azerbaijanis lived for twenty years without these territories, poor, sparsely populated with a predominantly Armenian population. Azerbaijan has spent billions of dollars to win it back, it still needs to spend billions to restore it. If Azerbaijanis migrate somewhere, it will rather be Baku (or Moscow) than Nagorno-Karabakh. The main engine of this war is the idea that this is Azerbaijani land. The economy was not even close.

          Quote: Pyshenkov
          Afghanistan and Vietnam fought for key points in the region. This is if you take the United States and the USSR, and the Vietnamese and Afghans fought for their land.

          What's the key? When Brezhnev decided to kill Amin, he thought that he had sold himself to the Americans. The official reason for the entry of the United States into the internal Vietnamese conflict is the fight against communist expansion. Here and there, the superpowers have lost. And what has changed? Nothing! And the Vietnamese fought primarily among themselves for power, and so did the Afghans. The USA and the USSR supported one of the parties to the civil conflict, whose ideology coincided with their own (or at least did not contradict, in contrast to the other side).

          Quote: Pyshenkov
          Any national liberation movement, for example, is a fight of a certain people, from whom someone else took originally its territory, and, accordingly, a vital resource, for their own profit.

          Was the USSR doomed?

          Quote: Pyshenkov
          but at the forefront was LEBENSRAUM - living space and resources for the German people to reproach everyone else. Tough, but honest.

          Well, where is that Hitler? And what did it cost Germany? His example to others is science. The population of developed countries is shrinking, what kind of expansion? What is the living space?
          Explain, the United States has a country close by - Venezuela. It possesses 20% of the world's proven oil reserves. Following your logic, she should have become a victim of the United States a long time ago. Why are they still not 52 or what state of the United States is there?
          Why do small countries like Belgium or Andorra still exist? Your theory contradicts the facts.

          Quote: Pyshenkov
          And now new conquerors hang up various noodles about democracy, values, human rights and other rubbish for you and you like mugs. And you seem to be successfully hawking it. And the goals are still the same - markets, resources, living spaces and the destruction of competition.

          All your spells about markets, resources, living spaces and the destruction of competition, this is all at best, the 70th century. Take a look around. Who in Europe has fought for markets over the past 10 years? And before that, there had not been even 100 years without a major war. Compare the life of an ordinary person now and 200 years ago, or XNUMX. Progress is obvious. And this social progress directly contradicts your ideas.
          If all this is rubbish, for what purpose are they imitated with such thoroughness in the Russian Federation? And before that they were imitated in the USSR?



          Quote: Pyshenkov
          And to spend my time on your education, and even free, is definitely not for me. You are clearly not the most stupid person, just education and outlook are not enough. So I think, if you want to and from time to time, you can handle it yourself, unless of course you want

          Sorry, but I don’t need your education for nothing. I am so, to discuss with not a stupid person of opposite views. Sharpen your reasoning.
        2. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 11 January 2022 22: 07
          +1
          Oleg, you will excuse me, but I did not read all this there above. I drove just with my eyes - it was enough for me. So do not waste time on me and on such long opuses addressed to me, and obviously without any interesting content for me. I have already told you my opinion about your reflections. If you have so much free time and really have a desire to present your reasoning to someone, then here is my advice to you: the editors here on the site are quite adequate and open to work together, write something connected with your point of view, invite the Admin to publish , if taken, then you will have many opinions and points of view from different people on your thoughts. Now, believe me, there will be a field for discussion and training in argumentation. And at the same time, you will have an idea of ​​what your thoughts are in reality. hi
        3. isofat Offline isofat
          isofat (isofat) 11 January 2022 23: 03
          0
          Oleg, and I am sure that it was your idols who came up with the idea to imitate love, democracy, etc. posing as her sexual perversion, voting by mail and much more. laughing
  • Alexander Matyukhin (Alexander Matyukhin) 8 January 2022 13: 21
    +4
    Putin did not "strike", but reacted to the situation. The foreign policy of our leader is "transparent" and does not raise doubts about its correctness. The principle of aikido rules.
    1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
      Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 14: 38
      +3
      Putin struck a blow by issuing his ultimatum to the West, a preemptive blow, as I said, and precisely according to the principle of martial arts - they pressed us so hard without any regard for reciprocal reactions that just a slightly forward fist knocked out their breath and stunned them. This is the principle I meant when talking about the blow
      1. Volkonsky Offline Volkonsky
        Volkonsky (Vladimir) 8 January 2022 15: 40
        -3
        Lesh, it seems to me that it was an operation under the false flag of Putin himself to seize power in the KZ, I will write a text, I will formulate it there, but so far the puzzles do not fit, one question - what does the Leader of the Nation have to do with it?
        1. Pishenkov Offline Pishenkov
          Pishenkov (Alexey) 8 January 2022 17: 06
          +3
          Elbasy has nothing to do with it. Perhaps someone from his team worked for the West, but nothing more. In this case, both Elbasy and Tokayev are only hostages of a situation played out from the outside and without their participation. They are the pieces on the board, not the players
          And Putin didn’t suit the coup in Kazakhstan - he didn’t need it, and it’s not his style. But for the fact that something like that will be there somewhere, he definitely was preparing. It was not for nothing that the West was so actively diluting the topic of Ukraine - it is clear that the strike was being prepared somewhere else. Again, everything is according to the old manual - primitive and stupid.
          I am even upset - do the "partners" really have such a deep degradation?
        2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 30
          -8
          How can you seize power by passively standing near buildings? Lacking agents among local bais and princelings.
      2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 29
        -8
        The ultimatum leaves no choice to the enemy, who is much more powerful economically and militarily. This is not an ultimatum, but an attempt to bargain for even a crumb.
        1. Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
          Dart2027 8 January 2022 20: 13
          0
          Quote: gunnerminer
          This is not an ultimatum, but an attempt to bargain for even a crumb.

          Judging by the reaction, this very Much more powerful economically and militarily does not know about it. You will enlighten him.
  • zloybond Offline zloybond
    zloybond (steppenwolf) 8 January 2022 16: 22
    +4
    It seems that after the statement of the newly-minted "leader of the Kazakh opposition" Mr. Ablyazov, Russia and Kazakhstan should have a tough, principled dialogue with Paris, given that this cheat has criminal cases behind his back, should, like land to a collective farm, take refuge in France. Here the issue of extradition is fundamental. Or I don’t understand after that our Foreign Ministry and how to react to all this to the people of the Republic of Kazakhstan if this trash is not pulled to the wall and with Paris they do not go through the points. It turns out France, taking advantage of the moment, attracted a shitty player to the case. Thus, Paris is now, as it were, the headquarters of the revolution.
    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 8 January 2022 17: 31
      -9
      Who, and whom, to whom will give out! The Russian Foreign Ministry is trailing behind the caravan. Reacts directly.
  • Pilot Offline Pilot
    Pilot (Pilot) 8 January 2022 18: 47
    +2
    Americans like to give their military operations in different countries, different names, and so - Airplanes with CSTO peacekeepers arrived in Kazakhstan. The international peacekeeping operation of the CSTO - "Eye on the ass" has begun.
  • Dart2027 Offline Dart2027
    Dart2027 8 January 2022 20: 12
    +1
    One thing is surprising: not only do the “partners”, not bothering to invent something new, still work hard according to the old manuals, but even on their own, already according to the same manuals, mistakes they make do not learn!

    It seems to me everything is easier here. It's not so easy to invent something fundamentally new. The history of wars, provocations and coups goes back thousands of years, and humanity does not change much in essence. YES the emergence of such technologies was revolutionary, but ... When and who will create a new breakthrough? Here you need real genius or incredible luck, so they use what they have.
  • Vladest Offline Vladest
    Vladest (Vladimir) 8 January 2022 20: 32
    -5
    Perhaps we are talking about the USSR? And then the Union in the person of the European Union already exists. To revive the USSR, it is necessary that all the elites and people in the countries that emerged from the former republics of the USSR want this. The conversation can be continued if someone has already heard that there are signals about someone's desire to return to the USSR. But this cannot be done without referendums.
    In short, as they say, "Dreaming is not harmful."
    There is another option, though. Russians forget that they are Russians and call Russia the USSR. This will be the most bloodless option.
    1. Oleg Rambover Online Oleg Rambover
      Oleg Rambover (Oleg Pitersky) 8 January 2022 21: 43
      -2
      I thought Nazarbayev said it, but it turns out Putin

      Whoever does not regret the collapse of the Soviet Union has no heart;
      who wants to recreate it in its former form, he has no head.
      1. Vladest Offline Vladest
        Vladest (Vladimir) 8 January 2022 23: 30
        -2
        Do you know the population of Kazakhstan in millions, or is Nazarbayev all the population there? Moreover, Nazarbayev is not heard now. The USSR died without a fight for its life. And the time will come and all his fans will die out.
  • MSG363 Offline MSG363
    MSG363 (Sergey Melnik) 9 January 2022 01: 25
    +1
    Quote: ser-pov
    It will still be very interesting if the CSTO is replenished not only with the countries of the post-Soviet space, but also, for example, China, etc. This will be the bomb.

    What for? There are observer states that are also very interesting for joining the CSTO. Iran, Afghanistan, Serbia. Even their entry will not be very pleasant for NATO and the Americans. Especially for Americans, since in all three countries they are so terribly loved that they are ready to immediately start to tear them with their teeth.
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  • alex-sherbakov48 10 January 2022 08: 22
    0
    In the predictions of Vanga, it was already said that after the collapse of the USSR, some time will pass and the USSR will revive, but only in a different format. Now we see that this is starting to happen. True, Wanga further said that this union state would not last long and would collapse, but now it was already final.