Will Russia be forced to pay the € 290 billion bill?


The European Union, and then the United States, billed Russia for 290 billion euros for violating the WTO rules. It is quite obvious that this is not just a trade dispute, but the beginning of a full-fledged "trade war" by the collective West within the framework of a new "Cold War". The most offensive thing about this is that this "atomic bomb" was laid under our country by its own authorities.


According to media reports, the European Union has filed a complaint with the World Trade Organization about Moscow's "discriminatory" actions:

In 2019, the cost of published tenders for Russian state-owned enterprises amounted to 23,5 trillion rubles, or approximately € 290 billion, which is equivalent to about 20% of Russia's GDP.

We are talking about measures for direct state support of domestic producers to the detriment of foreign ones. Several of them were counted in Brussels:

At first, this is the introduction of national quotas for purchases at public expense. In this case, a certain share of goods must necessarily be of Russian origin.

Secondly, for the purchase of engineering products abroad, you first need to obtain permission from the Import Substitution Commission. There is one in our country.

Thirdly, European companies complain that Russian companies win tenders, indicating the price is 15-30% lower than that of foreign competitors, but then receive from the customer, represented by the state and its authorities, the full amount of the contract.

The EU and the United States do not understand this and believe that their interests in the framework of the World Trade Organization are not being observed, since their exporters do not have the promised free access to the domestic Russian market. The total amount of claims is astronomical - 290 billion euros. The response in Moscow is very indicative.

Officials in high offices say that Russia's actions are a forced response to the sanctions policies the United States and the European Union themselves, which, without the consent of the UN Security Council, introduced restrictive measures against our country. It is quite rightly pointed out that this very WTO, where the complainants turned, did not protect the rights and interests of the Russian side in any way. Economists and political scientists believe that the World Trade Organization is more likely dead than alive, and therefore the collective West will not be able to collect these hundreds of billions of euros from Moscow. But we would like to focus on another aspect of this problem.

How and why did such claims and lawsuits become possible at all?

Recall that the WTO is the brainchild of the so-called "globalists", created in order to predominantly defend the interests of transnational corporations and large developed powers to the detriment of everyone else. It is in this hypocritical approach that the "dark side of liberalism" about which we have already reasoned previously. The main question is, why then did Russia join this openly pro-Western international structure?

Here I would like to introduce a new rubric under the conditional name "remember the past" and refresh the memory of the statements of prominent statesmen of that time about the WTO. In 2009, at a meeting with members of the Valdai Discussion Club, President Medvedev announced that the decision to join the World Trade Organization had been made, and he and the Prime Minister had no differences on this issue:

They began to say that the president has one point of view, while the prime minister has a different one on this issue. This is mistake. The decision on how we will join has been made ... Since we are not yet accepted into the WTO, they are holding us somewhere in the corridor, at the entrance, then we must deal with the integration of our economies - Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus ... But this does not mean that we are against joining the WTO. In my opinion, everyone has already understood that it is better to have a Russia that joined the WTO, which acts according to the WTO rules, than some other Russia.

Indeed, “some other Russia”, freely defending its national interests, was not needed by anyone. In 2010, the then head of the Ministry of Economic Development Elvira Nabiullina argued that all sectors of the national economy would benefit from accession to the WTO. economics... And the indisputable authority and "guru" in the field of liberal approaches to the economy, Anatoly Chubais, promised an annual increase in GDP at the level of 1,2%. How did this step turn out in practice?

The fact that Russia opened its domestic market to Western companies. The tales that one can compete on equal terms with transnational corporations turned out to be fairy tales. Look, for example, at the fleet of Russian companies, how many Russian and foreign aircraft are there. And state support is directly prohibited by WTO rules. After 2014, it suddenly turned out that the machine tools and other high-tech equipment we needed would not be sold even for petrodollars, and our own no longer exist. It was necessary, in violation of the requirements of the World Trade Organization, to switch to direct government subsidies to a half-dead domestic industry. Now we are being billed for this for 290 billion euros. It is into such a hole that the Russian economy was driven by their own liberals in power.

By the way, the statement that it will not be possible to collect anything from us within the framework of the WTO does not seem reasonable. It is the United States that blocks the work of the appellate instance. If they need to put more pressure on the Kremlin, they will carry out an accelerated "resuscitation" of it, and how the Western courts work can be seen on the example of Gazprom.
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  1. alexey alexeyev_2 (Alexey Alekseev) 27 December 2021 11: 53
    +3
    Are sanctions provided by the WTO charter?
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 12: 30
      +5
      No, not provided
    2. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
      sH, arK 27 December 2021 16: 58
      +5
      Well, here the situation is interesting ... Sanctions are not provided, but the WTO does not care at all! The game is played with one goal. Although it is virtually impossible to collect debts within the WTO, and the courts last for decades ... And of course, a claim for 290 billion rubles. - complete nonsense, and is easily parried by counterclaims for the same sanctions or similar restrictions! Although it is certainly necessary to declare this earlier, do we understand what an "honest" European or American court is !? The WTO court, I'm afraid, is not far from the "most honest and fair" courts like the Stockholm and others ...

      Well, do not forget that Marzhetsky, the author of this statement is only interested in discussions, and not in real coverage of reality:

      The Ministry of Economic Development denied the data on the EU demand of € 290 billion from Russia The Ministry of Economic Development called the data that the EU demands € 290 billion from Russia to be unreliable.The EU demands from Russia to cancel or modify measures that, in its opinion, violate WTO rules, the department reported. Minek added that the rules of the organization do not imply the payment of any compensation.
  2. Sergey Latyshev Offline Sergey Latyshev
    Sergey Latyshev (Serge) 27 December 2021 12: 04
    +1
    Alas, yes.
    They entered - they entered.
    violated - allegedly violated.
    Didn't come out on time - didn't come out.
    they themselves did not submit to the court for sanctions and restrictions - they did not.

    And with Medvedev and K, you know what the demand is.
  3. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 12: 32
    -3
    Not so long ago, speaking at the "Made in Russia-2021" forum, Alexei Kudrin called Russia's accession to the WTO one of Russia's main successes. At the same event, other speakers praised Kudrin, claiming that it was almost thanks to him that Russia became a member of this globalist organization.
    Legal proceedings can last up to three years. And now it is quite difficult to predict the result, as well as the fact whether Russia will pay in the event of a negative decision for us.
    $ 290 billion is a huge amount, more than the size of the National Wealth Fund. If you do not pay, then the confiscation of Russian property can begin all over the world. To date, the events are difficult to predict. Sanctions have been imposed on Russia. Absolutely contrary to all WTO rules. This organization did not protect Russia. How do you like this, Alexey and Anton! Author, please read the terms of withdrawal from the WTO, I inform readers, when a country leaves the WTO, the withdrawing country is obliged to compensate for possible damage to all WTO member countries. And there are tens of trillions. This is the kind of bomb planted under us by domestic managers.
    1. Bakht Offline Bakht
      Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 13: 02
      +5
      Can you provide a link to the conditions for leaving the WTO?
      1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 15: 07
        -7
        I was not puzzled by such a question ahead of time.
        1. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 15: 23
          +8
          Article 15 of the WTO Charter.

          Log out
          Any member may withdraw from this Agreement. Such withdrawal shall apply both to this Agreement and to the Multilateral Trade Agreements and shall enter into force six months after the date of receipt by the WTO Director General of a written notice of withdrawal.
          Withdrawal from a Limited Trade Agreement is governed by the terms of such Agreement.

          http://www.rgwto.com/wto.asp?id=3667&doc_id=3192

          True, for a long time, somewhere there was information that leaving the WTO costs some money. About a hundred million (I won't tell you the exact figure)

          This is bad news anyway. The lawsuit will be filed. This is a settled matter. The judgment will be in favor of the EU. This is also with a probability of 99%. There has long been no fair trial in Europe. Russia, of course, will not pay.
          What consequences? It is necessary to curtail economic cooperation with Europe. I have been saying for a long time that Europe is an unreliable "partner". Well, and of course, it is high time to apply for withdrawal from the WTO.
          1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
            sH, arK 27 December 2021 17: 07
            +4
            Yes, one must understand that, of course, litigation in other people's courts is a pointless matter! There is a real way out, and it is simple - companies that are in court are generally excluded from mutual trade! Everything is really limited. The country that allowed the confiscation is deprived of any rights. This is war! Of course, the application for 290 billion is just a lawsuit "in fear", and of course, it is unrealistic to sue it in your right mind, but it is not so difficult to prove that Russian companies won tenders by offering more favorable conditions! Moreover, this is 99% true ...
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 17: 38
              +3
              This option is also possible. But the main thing that needs to be done is to withdraw from the WTO. This is complete chaos in international and trade relations. Practically no contracts and agreements are in effect. Yes, this is war. While economic. But it quite often turns into a hot phase. The situation is not very good.
    2. Prutkov Offline Prutkov
      Prutkov (Kozma P) 27 December 2021 14: 52
      +1
      Don't be so scared and scare the rest. The EU will have to justify the indicated amount. Their applications indicate that they have lost tenders for a total of 290 billion. Let them prove for each individual tender, where they participated and lost because of the existing preferences. But if the Europeans did not participate in the auction at all and even, on the contrary, tried to withdraw their equipment from the projects (remember the story with the turbines for the Crimean power station from Siemens). Well, plus, according to the WTO, penalties are imposed in the form of additional tax payments for the supply and sale of goods. The main Russian goods that the EU buys are gas and oil. The product is not cheap anyway at the moment. How much gas will then cost for Europeans?
      1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 15: 11
        -5
        Justify, all the more so. a game with only one gate. Without getting involved in a showdown, without wasting time, present. Without Russian raw materials, they will manage, especially since the director of this performance, the difficulties of the EU are not very puzzling.
    3. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
      sH, arK 27 December 2021 17: 14
      +3
      Under you, specifically, and under Marzhetsky and under your dUrkainu, maybe they laid :-) But in fact:

      The Ministry of Economic Development called the data that the EU requires € 290 billion from Russia to be unreliable
      The European Union requires Russia to cancel or modify measures that, in its opinion, violate WTO rules, the department said. The minek added that the organization's rules do not imply the payment of any compensation.

      https://www.rbc.ru/economics/26/12/2021/61c8a4fd9a794717cbe98379
      1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
        Marzhecki (Sergei) 28 December 2021 07: 51
        -1
        Under you, specifically, and under Marzhetsky and under your dUrkainu, maybe they laid :-) But in fact:

        Ministry of Economic Development denies data on EU demand of € 290 billion from Russia
        The Ministry of Economic Development called the data that the EU requires € 290 billion from Russia to be unreliable
        The European Union requires Russia to cancel or modify measures that, in its opinion, violate WTO rules, the department said. The minek added that the organization's rules do not imply the payment of any compensation.

        Gazprom also denied fines for Naftogaz. They also joked and made a fool in the comments.
        As a result, he paid everything, with penalties and penalties.
        1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
          sH, arK 29 December 2021 10: 01
          0
          Yes, of course, Gazprom's fine was from the same series. But there is a nuance - the WTO cannot penalize, it can only demand to change the conditions of trade relations, and as the most drastic action - to allow other participants to impose restrictions within the WTO. But are we afraid of this ?! And in the EU claim itself, the amount was given as an example of the scope of violations, and not the amount of the claim.
    4. antibi0tikk Offline antibi0tikk
      antibi0tikk (Sergei) 27 December 2021 21: 10
      +1
      If you do not pay, then the confiscation of Russian property can begin all over the world.

      A very interesting topic! Is there a lot of Russian property in the west? Clear business - a lot! We go and work, and not jump across squares and walk across Europe with a palm.
      Here is just such a feeling that without Russian resources, this property is useless. Well, they confiscate branches of Sberbank or gas stations of Lukoil, then what? Well, about Gazprom's national treasure or Rosneft, and so everything is clear: they will rake this good with their raking hands. But again the same question: what to do with it next? Europe has few banks of its own or what? Well, one of the strongest competitors will be removed. Or will Shell with BP start selling their gasoline at Lukoil filling stations? Gazprom's gear without Gazprom's gas is just a booty barn! Well, maybe there is some kind of production by Russian companies.
      But the answer will be more interesting! For example, more than 70 models of foreign cars from various manufacturers are produced in Russia. Including Mercedes with Toyota. There are also many Pepsi and Coca-Cola factories. Danones and Samsung have not been brought to us for a long time, they are doing it here in Russia. And this is not to mention the fact that we still have a lot of things produced for them. Without the Russian titanium, the same Boeing will be a wunderwaffle of g ... and sticks.
      So there will be nothing serious from this venture. On trifles, some Afromax SovComFlotovsky can slow down in some port of Rotterdam and game ower on this. No, there won't be a gamer. These gloomy WTO visyuns will join the column going to ... along with the Japanese Kurils, the Baltic reparations for the Soviet occupation, Ukrainian compensation for the Crimea, etc.
  4. Mark Offline Mark
    Mark (Mark) 27 December 2021 12: 39
    +3
    The main question is, why then did Russia join this openly pro-Western international structure?

    Reply.
    The leadership of Russia entered their structure, because they themselves got capital on this. Because the leaders of the Russian Federation are the very liberals.
    1. isofat Offline isofat
      isofat (isofat) 27 December 2021 17: 16
      -1
      They entered so that the bad ones had at least some hopes. Thus, we bought time and acquired, albeit a small, but opportunity to somehow influence the bad ones. We needed time, time money, we paid with our participation in this sharashka. smile

      Yes, they also reassured the inner stupid ones ... And the smart ones got the opportunity to learn different wisdom. yes
  5. Jacques sekavar Offline Jacques sekavar
    Jacques sekavar (Jacques Sekavar) 27 December 2021 12: 50
    -7
    They will force, as they forced the Russian Federation to pay the debts of the USSR.
    1. sH, arK Offline sH, arK
      sH, arK 27 December 2021 16: 41
      +5
      Do not write nonsense! Nobody forced Russia to pay the USSR debts! Russia assumed these obligations in exchange for receiving the rights to all the assets of the USSR! But there is a territorial entity, it cannot be given by the country, Durkaina that after Russia paid the debt she demanded a share in Russia's assets abroad.
      Well, paying off debts, as well as writing off assets to debtors, is the main income of liberals like Misha2%, as Kasyanov was called, who stole these 2% into his own pocket, but at the same time writing off or paying for the remaining 98%!
  6. shiva Offline shiva
    shiva (Ivan) 27 December 2021 12: 59
    -2
    Who else doubts the third world war?
    The loser has already been appointed and the amount of the first indemnity invoice.
  7. Dan Offline Dan
    Dan (Daniel) 27 December 2021 12: 59
    +2
    Thirdly, European companies complain that Russian companies win tenders, indicating the price is 15-30% lower than that of foreign competitors, but then receive from the customer, represented by the state and its authorities, the full amount of the contract.

    It would not be bad for the author to give an example of what it looks like in federal documents. laughing What I've read looks a little different. Not "indicate the price below, and then pay extra". This is generally a purely corrupt method. This is done differently. And this is spelled out in the governing documents. If a domestic and overseas product goes to the auction, then the domestic one wins even if its price for a certain size (the size depends on various factors - the type of services, goods, etc.) is higher than the overseas one. There are no additional payments after the 44FZ auction. The way that they write in the article is from ignorance of the legislation and the documents developing it. It looks like those who write about public procurement are terribly far from them and represent the mechanisms involved in them.
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 27 December 2021 14: 17
      -7
      The way that they write in the article is from ignorance of the legislation and the documents developing it. It looks like those who write about public procurement are scary far from them and represent involved

      Are you terribly close? That would explain a lot. smile
      1. Dan Offline Dan
        Dan (Daniel) 27 December 2021 16: 01
        +3
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        Are you terribly close? That would explain a lot.

        Actually, I'm familiar with 44FZ. And it wouldn't hurt you if you're trying to write about it.
        1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
          Marzhecki (Sergei) 27 December 2021 16: 36
          -7
          I am not trying, I am writing. The article, by the way, is not about this law, if you don’t understand, but about the WTO. I did not analyze the law, I listed the EU claims as they are presented in the Russian media.
          Don't sidetrack the topic.
  8. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
    Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 13: 00
    0
    From a dead donkey ears
    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 15: 12
      -7
      We haven't jumped over yet. And already say "gop".
      1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 19: 32
        +2
        If we allow the payment of all this, as well as the consolidation of NATO in its existing positions and its further expansion, then in the future we are ALREADY NOT.
        So let's jump over. Life will force. Our own
        1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 19: 43
          -9
          Jumping or jumping should have been about 15-20 years ago, but the opinion of the environment got in the way
          The President, that they are "their fellows" for the NATO countries. Do you remember, after the terrorist attack in Cannes, he called on TV the French President by the name of François? He gave instructions on the TV bridge to the commander of the Russian ship to communicate via VHF with the French crew in Mediterranean, while the French naval officers did not even consider it necessary to answer the calls of the Russian officer.
          Life forces us to act far-sightedly and deliberately, rather than lagging behind in everyday life, not reacting directly, like a pre-conscript, jumping late, especially after the reforms of Makarov-Serdyukov.
        2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 22: 48
          -7
          Resources and reserves, ready for the escalation of hostilities, at the disposal of the Ministry of Defense and
          The NGS of Russia is not enough. Politically correct speaking, especially in aviation, in the space industry.
          No aircraft, no weapons, no trained reserve of troops, no stocks of precision weapons, no finances, no food stocks, no stocks of spare parts for military transport and rear services.
          Meat and dairy production uses Western raw materials. Pork meat seems to be ours, but all eggs for factory broilers and factory egg-laying hens are imported. The entire seed fund for plants, durum wheat from the Netherlands.
          The real dependence on imports in food products is about 50%.
          The entire agroindustry industry is of Western origin, and will not work for a long time without spare parts. The most modern equipment has remote computer diagnostics and maintenance.
          A huge amount of oil and gas equipment operates on imported turbines and imported automation, and so on in everything.

          What jump, and where, are you writing about?
          1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
            Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 28 December 2021 15: 44
            0
            EVERYTHING that you write about should form part of our conditions to the States. To these conditions it is necessary to add a revolver attached to their temples. This we CAN do.
            Further depends on the prudence of the States. We don't need any long game.
            We need to force them to retreat now, and to force them to retreat further until they retreat to the boundaries that we have indicated.
            Yes, everything has accumulated over the years of "concern" at a decent risk. Our prudence is to take this risk.
            Actually, the years of "concern" were calculated on the accumulation of forces for this.
            1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
              gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 16: 38
              -2
              a revolver against their temples. This we CAN do.

              If you can, more about the "revolver". It has deteriorated significantly over 20 years. Turned into a scarecrow.

              Actually, the years of "concern" were calculated on the accumulation of forces for this.

              What is the accumulation? In the Aerospace Forces? In the Navy? In the Ground Forces? How much did you plan to save? How much did you save? What have you not saved up, and why?
              1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
                Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 28 December 2021 17: 57
                0
                Your point of view says that you are on the other side of the "front line".
                Judging by his erudition and interests, he is a specialist historian in our weapons. If your owners are unreasonable - everything that we get and use, you will see with your own eyes and feel with all other senses
                1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                  gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 18: 10
                  -2
                  No. On this side of the front. I express my point of view. It is easy and pleasant to speak the truth. It is a pity that you do not have enough information to answer questions. You are erudite and well-read.

                  Your owners will be unreasonable - everything that we get and use, you will see with your own eyes, and feel with all other senses

                  I have been waiting for this bright hour for 30 years.

                  If you are not friends with your head, you serve the State Department for the loot,
                  Vomiting lies and abomination, Dreaming of America.
                  Kohl forgot about the Motherland.
                  Who are you? That's right, d..l!
  9. Bulanov Offline Bulanov
    Bulanov (Vladimir) 27 December 2021 13: 13
    +3
    Has Russia been squeezed with the sale of Opel? And where is the WTO?
    1. shiva Offline shiva
      shiva (Ivan) 27 December 2021 13: 55
      +5
      And they wanted to buy some kind of Norwegian turbine factory, so everyone there got up.
      1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 18: 08
        -8
        And this factory, and another, shipbuilding Kvaerner, liked by Roman Abramovich.
  10. zzdimk Offline zzdimk
    zzdimk 27 December 2021 14: 14
    +1
    You have to play by your own rules. You cannot accept strangers - they are initially with a trick.
  11. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
    Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 14: 19
    +2
    We will simply have to add economic issues to the issues of military security in negotiations, or in case of forceful pressure on the United States.
    We are right - there is discrimination. The solution is possible only with the same forceful means as for security issues - in a common package. All issues of Russia's security are interconnected.
    This is how they need to be addressed.
    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 15: 14
      -5
      We will simply have to add economic issues to the issues of military security in negotiations, or in case of forceful pressure on the United States.

      Who, and with what forces, will provide the forceful pressure on the USA? The USSR did not succeed, can talented Russian diplomats really be able to?
      1. Vladimir501 Offline Vladimir501
        Vladimir501 (Vladimir) 27 December 2021 16: 09
        0
        It has already happened, politics is the art of the possible.
        1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 18: 04
          -8
          Who, and with what forces, will provide the forceful pressure on the USA? The USSR did not succeed, can talented Russian diplomats really be able to?
        2. Bakht Offline Bakht
          Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 21: 48
          +1
          lol Politics is the art of the IMPOSSIBLE.
          If only possible options are carried out, then this is very, very bad diplomacy.
          This is what distinguishes a good diplomat from a bad one.
          1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
            gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 22: 49
            -7
            There is no time and reserves to carry out impossible-unexpected options.
            1. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 23: 44
              +2
              Only such options give the result. If you act within the limits of the possible, then the enemy easily calculates your moves.
              There is always time and resources. And you always have to find unexpected moves. This is the only way to win. It's like chess. The more unexpected the move, the more chances of winning. Or like in a war. Only unexpected decisions bring victory.
              1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 00: 28
                -7
                The Government does not have time and reserves for such maneuvers. Much time has been wasted. The armed forces have only recently attended to; the mobsystem has not been restored.
                1. Bakht Offline Bakht
                  Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 December 2021 07: 05
                  +3
                  I have already noticed that you are well aware of the capabilities of the Russian Government.
                  1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 10: 31
                    -6
                    Peskov perfectly comments on this, while Shoigu and Gerasimov demonstrate in practice.
            2. Bakht Offline Bakht
              Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 27 December 2021 23: 49
              +1
              Pereslegin "Risk Strategy"

              Unlike chess, there is no "draw" in war. Positional deadlock, positional exchange are always wasted human lives, huge material costs, spiritual collapse. All this leads to a world worse than the pre-war one. Strategic defeat.

              Therefore, in military affairs, risky operations that go beyond the crisis of analyticity are very important.

              Kluge to Guderian "All your operations are hanging by a thread"
              Nagumo - Yamamoto "Your whole plan is a gamble"
      2. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
        Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 17: 43
        +1
        First of all, the USSR did it well.
        Forgot the Cuban missile crisis, Operation Anadyr and the Tulip exercises?
        All the objectives of the operations were achieved. The Americans got it right then. Cuba was given guarantees of non-aggression, and is still being respected. First strike missiles from Turkey and Italy were removed.
        Then we broke the backbone of confidence in invulnerability for them forever.
        A lot of effort is not needed now. The absence of another way out, determination and nuclear missiles piercing missile defense. They take care of their asses, much more than we take our souls.
        The lessons are, of course, forgotten. 60 years have passed. But I hope that we will repeat with the Americans what they have forgotten. Repetition is the mother of learning
        1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 18: 04
          -7
          As soon as the US Navy placed submarines, carriers of the Kyrgyz Republic Regulus in the area of ​​Ayia Napa Bay, near Cyprus, the Khrushchev Foreign Ministry began to give up positions. The low readiness of the R-12 liquid-propellant missiles for immediate use was found. The USSR Navy Main Command, Admiral of the Fleet Gorshkov, rubbed in the points of the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces about submarines and their number directed to Cuba. Gorshkov reported on the deployment of Project 627 nuclear submarines. In fact, only 4 diesel submarines of Project 641 were deployed. Since the nuclear submarines could not be outside the base for more than 14 days due to the technical condition, it cost the Chief of the General Staff of the Navy, Admiral Fokin, to sum up the results at the USSR Ministry of Defense. fleet capable of effectively breaking the blockade of the island. And even now it does not.
          The United States still has a base in Guantanamo, but there are no Soviet or Russian units in Cuba, and there will not be.

          A lot of effort is not needed now. The absence of another way out, determination and nuclear missiles piercing missile defense. They take care of their asses, much more than we take our souls.

          Bragging, not backed up by operational measures. In view of the lost opportunities forever. Now our level is butting with Ukraine, Turkey, Taliban, Poland.
          1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
            Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 18: 21
            +1
            Do not care about the reinforcement of the operational capabilities of "normal" species. We simply threaten to destroy the enemy's decision-making centers, and if it doesn’t work out, then with mutual destruction. For this we need, in the main, the operational capabilities of our nuclear triad. Thank God they are fine.
            1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
              gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 18: 32
              -8
              For this we need, in the main, the operational capabilities of our nuclear triad. Thank God they are fine.

              It has long been out of order, especially its air and sea components.
              1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
                Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 18: 45
                +2
                Enough for unacceptable damage. Over and above. Greater - from the evil one.
                We are not going to win in an atomic war in which everyone will be the losers. But we must be ready to go for it
                1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                  gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 19: 21
                  -8
                  Not enough. Especially carriers and delivery vehicles. Otherwise, NATO would not knock on our gates with the butt. The Triad has degraded into a monad in 20 years.
                  1. Alexey Davydov Offline Alexey Davydov
                    Alexey Davydov (Alexey) 27 December 2021 19: 44
                    +2
                    NATO's confidence stems from our "traditional" compliance, and the experience of winning the Cold War.
                    Do you think that the States are ready to test this "not enough" for themselves? In addition, the choice of goals can be approached creatively and with imagination.
                    1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 27 December 2021 19: 56
                      -7
                      The United States is far from the European theater of operations. The Ukrainians are prepared to be killed in the forefront. It is very convenient for NATO. To fight on Ukrainian territory, by Ukrainian forces. Helping them with intelligence, weapons, weapons, ammunition. It will not be enough, they will drive Hungarians, Croats, Serbs, Romanians to slaughter. , Poles, Turks, Bulgarians. And then as it goes. Other Germans, Spaniards, Scandinavians will also join. And they will fight, depending on the developing situation, in a complex. From all theaters of operations. 25 years, the Russian Armed Forces have learned to fight with terrorists, and not with large formations , with fleets and aviation. The Aerospace Forces and the Navy have not conducted large-scale exercises for 30 years, especially over and in the Baltic, at the World Cup.

                      In addition, the choice of goals can be approached creatively and with imagination.

                      It is doubtful. On the Syrian bridgehead, something did not really embody this doctrine. And according to the results of the strategic exercises Kavkaz-2020, the Armed Forces of Armenia and Karabakh, they were awarded an excellent assessment by the NGS of the Armed Forces of Russia. The forces of Azerbaijan and Turkey were inflicted unacceptable damage. , soon, it turned out differently.
                      1. Sergeyjluf Offline Sergeyjluf
                        Sergeyjluf (Sergei) 28 December 2021 06: 11
                        +1
                        The question is: will the Ukrainians fight to the last? In WWII, even Kovpak and his comrades took refuge in the forests and did not climb on the rampage? And the Walk-Pole in the Civil? There were many "Batek-atamans" there.
                      2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
                        gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 10: 09
                        -2
                        Kovpak was partisan, and not fought as a regular unit of SA. In a direct clash, with a regular unit, nothing would be left of him within an hour.
                        In the North Caucasus and Dagestan, the SV and VV fought for 10 years. From 1994 to 2005. The hostilities ceased after pacification and the payment of funds to the Tsentoroyevskys. Roughly the same thing happened in Dagestan. Khadzhi Makhachev, a hint of deafness. electricity. And proteges from the center cannot do anything. For 17 years, they have not been able to solve the problem of employment of draft youth. Corruption and theft are outrageous. The project "Resorts of the North Caucasus" failed. There were many reports of what ski slopes and resorts would be there, just like in Switzerland.
                      3. Mark Offline Mark
                        Mark (Mark) 4 January 2022 17: 24
                        0
                        good everything is correct. No qualms about election violations.
      3. Sergeyjluf Offline Sergeyjluf
        Sergeyjluf (Sergei) 28 December 2021 06: 05
        +1
        The Americans butted the Taliban, and where is the result?
        1. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
          gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 10: 11
          -4
          Drapali like their predecessors from OKSVA. Now Russia is standing alone by the river. With its 201 base. Out of 9 thousand servicemen, 7 thousand hired under contract are local. That is also a contingent. You will not envy Russian officers and warrant officers.
    2. gunnerminer Offline gunnerminer
      gunnerminer (gunner miner) 28 December 2021 10: 39
      -2
      Forgot the Cuban missile crisis, Operation Anadyr and the Tulip exercises?

      60 years have passed since that time, and the Soviet Army and Navy have disappeared. And the Russian Armed Forces have undergone several massive landslides since 1991. In fact, becoming a splinter from the SA and the Navy of the USSR. Operations like the ones you just mentioned are not up to the command. Pay attention to how long it took the Syrian express, its sea and air components. What disasters with numerous casualties brought by the VTA (Tu-154, An-30) of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and this without the influence of the enemy!

      But I hope that we will repeat with the Americans what they have forgotten. Repetition is the mother of learning

      We are deprived of many resources, both technical and human, for conducting exercises at an operational level, and even at a remote naval theater.
  • Pilot Offline Pilot
    Pilot (Pilot) 27 December 2021 15: 55
    +2
    Bolt them all with a left-hand thread.
  • S WITH Offline S WITH
    S WITH (N S) 27 December 2021 18: 21
    +1
    if the West pays the Russian Federation 1 trillion, then the Russian Federation will pay)) The West must pay for a gross violation of the WTO rules, namely, in fact, the closure of its market for goods of the Russian Federation: the West set high duties, and where the duties are low (commensurate with the Russian ones), they introduced meager sales quotas for Ross of goods, the West also grossly violates the rules with a high level of subsidies, by printing trillions of candy wrappers, thanks to hyper subsidies, they sell goods below cost, in order to bankrupt Russian manufacturers and then raise prices
  • zenion Offline zenion
    zenion (zinovy) 27 December 2021 18: 40
    0
    I will translate the Ukrainian proverb into Russian - With whom you will lead, you will pick up.
  • shinobi Offline shinobi
    shinobi (Yuri) 27 December 2021 18: 50
    +3
    You know, all this is a common information stuffing that would create noise in order to mask something else, perhaps even lying on a completely different plane. by an order of magnitude and so far not simple. Do they need this? No. They need us more than they do to us. This is the same story as with SWIFT. Their losses will be much more tangible. I think that hysteria was created in order to beg something from us under the guise of concessions.
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) 27 December 2021 19: 25
    +1
    Isn't it time, these initiators of dragging us into this freak show, to be held accountable for our professional incompetence? At least. Or maybe wait until the investigative committee finds something more interesting? It seems, as, how, it is impossible to punish twice for one action. What do you think. colleagues? Or maybe release them, and, without spoiling the possibility of further proceedings, give them an honorary pension in the nearest house with good care and security? This, after all, will not be considered a punishment?
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) 27 December 2021 19: 32
    -1
    Quote: shinobi
    Then the access of companies from the EU and the USA to our market will become much more complicated and far from easy.

    I think everything will be just the opposite. It's just that we will stop feeling pressure and fulfill the requirements that do not interest us and interfere. Agreements, aren't they mutually acceptable documents? And we will discard the rules that hinder us. Our future partners, the same, will, without regard to this damn EU, sign or not sign relations. You are talking about access to us and ours. If there is no third behind the back, then the access will be freer, right? As an example, Ukraine and the WTO. Ukre rolled in quotas, they run out of them already in April, and nikshni, no longer can! What freer access do you mean there when we are in the WTO?
  • Kuramori Reika Offline Kuramori Reika
    Kuramori Reika (Kuramori Reika) 27 December 2021 19: 53
    +3
    Please, everyone who wants our money, gather in one place, preferably in London, so that one thermonuclear bomb will suffice. In our time, you have to save.
  • gorskova.ir Offline gorskova.ir
    gorskova.ir (Irina Gorskova) 27 December 2021 19: 55
    +2
    That is. WTO, EU, USA calculated the cost of the sanctions with which they pressed and strangled us and decided to play money for it? Ouch! Well, how perverted ..., sorry sophisticated minds of these figures. I never cease to admire. And imagine if this sophistication would be for good deeds. For OWN peoples ...
  • shiva Offline shiva
    shiva (Ivan) 27 December 2021 20: 30
    +1
    They think in pictures of comics - "aggressive putin's pipeline" (my rich imagination vividly paints a picture where Putin aggressively inserts his pipe to unhappy Europe) - but people of high positions and influence in the United States are seriously talking about this, and Gayrop functionaries are happily poking at them.
    The idea to punish Russia for import substitution was born - it is necessary to rummage through the news three days ago - from the deputy head of the US Treasury, who blurted it out, like in some kind of left-wing interview? A couple of days have not passed - the barkers from Geyrop have already billed the bill - three imported tape recorders, three cigarette cases, suede jackets - also three.
    How can a person with two higher educations like MGIMO speak clearly with the "partners" of the mental development of a moronic teenager and the ambitions of a mafia dad?
    Wait a little longer and Lavrov's successor will have to talk seriously with the matured, but not wiser Greta Thunberg.
    What and how to talk about? The Ministry of Health and Shoigu - twice a day, kefir in the morning, klystyr in the evening ...
  • dub0vitsky Offline dub0vitsky
    dub0vitsky (Victor) 27 December 2021 20: 44
    -2
    Quote: Alexey Davydov
    First of all, the USSR did it well.
    Forgot the Cuban missile crisis, Operation Anadyr and the Tulip exercises?
    All the objectives of the operations were achieved. The Americans got it right then. Cuba was given guarantees of non-aggression, and is still being respected. First strike missiles from Turkey and Italy were removed.
    Then we broke the backbone of confidence in invulnerability for them forever.
    A lot of effort is not needed now. The absence of another way out, determination and nuclear missiles piercing missile defense. They take care of their asses, much more than we take our souls.
    The lessons are, of course, forgotten. 60 years have passed. But I hope that we will repeat with the Americans what they have forgotten. Repetition is the mother of learning

    A good answer would not even be placing our mallets nearby off the coast of this bandit country. Bases, negotiate with the owners, transport, deployment ..... Bodyaga, with moments beyond our control. EXERCISES with the placement of "Poseidon" off the coast of Novaya Zemlya. Obviously, the case is not armed. (Till). Why do we need bases? To convince them of the invisibility of the transitions to their shores, at any time necessary for us.
  • steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 27 December 2021 21: 17
    -5
    I say: "Mediocrity rule!" The court will decide and will pay! Family, business, property where? Refuse to pay, arrest, block accounts for, etc.
  • Monster_Fat Offline Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat (What's the difference) 27 December 2021 21: 50
    +1
    H'm. I still remember Glazyev said that the Russian "money box" abroad, in fact, is not intended to support the Russian economy in extreme cases, but is just intended to compensate for losses to Western "investors" in the event of any losses on the Russian market or in the event " unauthorized for the West "actions of the Russian authorities that have brought direct and indirect losses to Western business, as well as for the payment of fines and penalties on them in the event of a decision on this by Western courts and arbitration commissions. yes And by the way, the same Glazyev said even when the first sanctions against Russia were introduced that it is necessary to immediately sue for this precisely as a violation of the WTO rules, so that later there would be no such claims from the West, regarding Russia's retaliatory actions. And besides, he also said that it is necessary to arrange the response actions competently so that there is no opportunity to find fault with them.
    1. tulip Offline tulip
      tulip 28 December 2021 15: 45
      -1
      there is no Russian money-box abroad. Billions of Putin have been looking for 15 years))) If the West starts playing completely unfair, then Russia has many ways to compensate for all this. Investments in Russia from the West alone exceed 290 billion. There is also a corporate debt to the West from Russian companies - more than 500 billion. What will the West do if it arrests something Russian at home and receives a refusal to pay off a debt of 500 billion, for example?)))
      Even though the West is trying to bend Russia, Russia was nevertheless incorporated into the Western market through the efforts of the West. And for the West, the retaliatory blow will be very tangible. And they know how to count the loot in the West)
  • isofat Offline isofat
    isofat (isofat) 27 December 2021 23: 38
    0
    Rumors about EU claims on Russia of € 290 billion turned out to be grossly exaggerated - https://cont.ws/@alexandr-rogers/2169162
    1. Marzhecki Offline Marzhecki
      Marzhecki (Sergei) 28 December 2021 07: 55
      -2
      Sashka Rogers is still an "expert". Do not take to heart what this Ukrainian political emigrant writes. He gives a lot for what he wants, tries to please the Russian audience.
  • Bakht Offline Bakht
    Bakht (Bakhtiyar) 28 December 2021 12: 03
    +4
    Losses of the Russian economy from Western sanctions.

    Barack Obama claimed to have torn the Russian economy to shreds. That is, losses of 100% of GDP. For 7 years, this is about 10 trillion. Russia's GDP is about $ 1,5 trillion.
    Putin claims that the losses amounted to 50 billion dollars over the entire 7 years. Well, politicians should not be trusted in these matters (either Obama or Putin).
    The IMF has estimated losses to the Russian economy at $ 700 billion since 2014. (6% of GDP per year. For 7 years it does, as you might guess, 42%). Then he came to his senses and reduced this amount to $ 70-80 billion. (0,4% of GDP)
    Some Western economists estimate these losses at $ 950 billion.

    So, we have numbers from 50 billion to 1 trillion. Sanctions are a direct violation of WTO rules. Russian companies are simply not allowed to participate in Western tenders. From the word at all.
    A counterclaim to the EU should amount to .... (I don’t know, from 50 to 950 billion dollars. Let smart people count)

    But all this is a verbal balancing act. The WTO will accept and recognize the EU's claim. So we have to butt in the courts, and in the meantime, apply for an exit from the WTO. And a complete revision of all trade agreements with European countries.
  • Havana Offline Havana
    Havana (Oleg) 28 December 2021 15: 41
    0
    Well, this is clear, we will not pay, this is another attempt at pressure. Moreover, it costs nothing to file a counterclaim. This attempt to pay is the same as forcing China to pay for the coronavirus. Curatorship is visible to the naked eye - USA. The WTO has no obligation to curtail its development in favor of sanctions.
  • NikolayN Offline NikolayN
    NikolayN (Nikolai) 28 December 2021 16: 42
    +1
    I wonder how many lawsuits have our officials filed with the WTO for discrimination against the Russian economy within the WTO? Or they sat and waited for Russia to be submitted. Those. They did not read the WTO rules and did not know that in such cases they would sue us. And we, too, could supply them with goods 200 yards away, but were not allowed to enter the market? And when we joined the WTO, did we understand what would happen? Do we even understand what we are doing? Or are we not going one step ahead? And in general, do we really think that we can develop without real competition?
  • oracul Offline oracul
    oracul (leonid) 29 December 2021 07: 47
    0
    If they had not entered the WTO, then the adherents of accession could, at every difficulty, refer to the fact that they had not entered. Now we are personally confronted with how this structure operates - dissent by its creators is not allowed, participation in public procurement of foreign companies is a way to drown our economy.
  • Rinat Offline Rinat
    Rinat (Rinat) 30 December 2021 15: 53
    -2
    Will Russia be forced to pay the € 290 billion bill?

    NO.
    It seems that this answer does not suit the person asking this question.
  • Yuri Bryanskiy Offline Yuri Bryanskiy
    Yuri Bryanskiy (Yuri Bryansky) 3 January 2022 13: 19
    0
    So let's see in the interests of the Russian people or globalists, our government exists.