Does it make sense to "renovate" the Tu-204 medium-haul liner

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A very important event happened the day before. Officially, its first flight was successfully completed by the Russian medium-range liner MS-21 with a completely "import-substituted" composite wing. Since we already have our own PD-14 aircraft engine, all that remains is to resolve issues related to avionics and other on-board electronic equipment. After that, it will be possible to speak with confidence about the revival of the domestic civil aircraft industry, which is undoubtedly an extremely positive trend. But perhaps there is an easier way?

MS-21


MC-21 is rightfully considered our “great white hope”. Thanks to the widespread use of polymer composite materials in the design of the "black wing" and tail elements, the developers managed to reduce the total weight of the aircraft and make the cabin unusually wide, which is more typical for long-haul rather than medium-haul aircraft. Depending on the configuration, MS-21 will be able to carry from 130 to 211 passengers. The Russian aircraft will turn out to be extremely successful, not only not inferior, but even superior in a number of characteristics to American, European and Chinese competitors.



It is not surprising that the United States considered it necessary from the very beginning to arrange a "hard life" for the MC-21, imposing sanctions first on the supply of imported composite materials, and then on avionics and other on-board equipment for the production of the Russian airliner. Yes, the plane, just like the Superjet, was originally planned to be produced in international cooperation. According to the initial plans, the share of Russian-made components was supposed to be only 38%, in 2014 it was increased to 50%. Then the figure of 80% began to appear, which the liner should correspond to by the time of mass production. The most daring plans for localization are supposed to bring it up to 97%.

Thus, the problem of dependence on "Western partners" made itself felt both in the short-haul Superjet and in the medium-haul MS-21. As you can see, it is gradually being solved: in a few years, domestic polymer composites were created, fortunately, work began on time on its PD-14 engine. From the fundamental points - it remains to solve the issue of on-board electronics, which may turn out to be the most difficult task of all. Undoubtedly, in the end this problem will also be solved, but all this means an inevitable prolongation of the deadlines. Could all this have been avoided?

Oddly enough, yes. And it's not even about the fact that the MS-21 should have been originally designed as completely domestic. The fact is that we already have our own medium-haul liner.

Tu-204 / 214


The narrow-body medium-haul liner Tu-204 made its first flight in 1989 and began operating in 1996. There are about 20 aircraft modifications: passenger, cargo, special and others. Depending on the configuration, the Tu-204/214 can carry from 142 to 215 passengers, which makes it a direct competitor to the MC-21. But, unlike a modern problematic liner, the late Soviet one already has about 50 international and Russian safety certificates and additions to them. In 2002, the aircraft Tu-204-100 No. 64011 of Siberia Airlines actually showed its reliability: having completely used up all the fuel, it managed to land safely at the Omsk airport with idle engines.

The most interesting thing about all this is that the Tu-204/214 is not only operated, but is still produced in Ulyanovsk, albeit in an extremely small batch. In other words, the production and component base has been preserved, which since the Soviet era has been focused on internal resources. So the question is, why is everyone so worried about the MS-21, when there is his classmate Tu-204/214 a long time ago?

The question is very interesting, and it can be answered in different ways.

On the one hand, critics quite rightly point out that the PS-90A engines, which the Soviet-designed liner is equipped with, are more "voracious" than the American and European ones, and even our new PD-14. For this reason, the last private airline, Red Wings, was phased out of commercial operation in 2018. Now a special squadron, the Russian Post, is flying on the Tu-204/214, and there are also plans to turn the aircraft into a military anti-submarine.

On the other hand, the production of modern economical and environmentally friendly PD-14 engines, as well as polymer composite materials that can be used to lighten the design of the wings and empennage elements. Why not apply these developments to the Tu-204/214, replacing the PS-90A with the latest generation power plants and installing new "black wings"? The technical characteristics of the late Soviet airliner will then significantly improve, it will again be able to compete on equal terms with American, European and Chinese aircraft.

There is some sense in the "renovation" of the Tu-204/214. The entire component base has been available for a long time, there is no need to invest any huge funds in a new import substitution. Manufacturers will undoubtedly be pleased with the increase in orders for the updated aircraft. Then Russia will be able to simultaneously produce both the MS-21 and the Tu-214M, unifying the power plants, a number of structural elements, which would halve its dependence on a foreign aircraft fleet and provide potential foreign customers with a greater choice. Perhaps it is worth at least thinking about it.
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  1. +1
    26 December 2021 12: 47
    In order to carry out the "renovation" of the TU-204 and launch it into mass production, only the will of the Russian authorities, including the government, is needed. The idle talk of functionaries is no longer interesting to anyone except themselves.
  2. -2
    26 December 2021 12: 55
    Perhaps it is worth at least thinking about it.

    You can think, do - hardly. The first question is why? What can 204 do better than 21? If there is such a thing, then you can leave the piece production. If not, then project 204 should be closed, and all efforts should be focused on 21, so that not 70 planes a year would be our blue dream, but all 150. For both civilian and military purposes. Create a so-called , conveyor ", a sort of normal series. And instead of the designers' efforts to rework the 204, strain and create a proper service, which today Sukhoi is limping on both legs, and at 21 so far I think is not better. It makes no sense to run into two different, but competing designs.
    1. +2
      26 December 2021 13: 25
      On the contrary, our manufacturing capabilities will not allow the mass production of the MS-21.
      The parallel production of two comparable planes can allow to quickly cover the country's needs and organize exports.
      The closure of the Tu-214 project is a direct sabotage, IMHO.
      1. +1
        26 December 2021 14: 57
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        The parallel production of two comparable planes can allow to quickly cover the country's needs and organize exports.

        There is no need to do parallel production. We need to develop block-modular construction. Like "Watermelon". And in general, each design bureau should have its own focus, and not collide with their heads on the same target. That's where sabotage is. The tanks realized, maybe when it comes to the aviators. The USSR built something like this - Yak - regionals, Tu - medium-haul, Il - long-range. And they did not get confused under each other's feet ... In any case, it seems to me so.
        1. -8
          26 December 2021 15: 54
          And managers will also hire such as "Watermelon"?
        2. 0
          27 December 2021 07: 03
          You do not take into account the fact that the domestic industry cannot produce airplanes in large quantities. They will do it a teaspoon per year. This is an objective reality.
          Tu-214 is ALREADY ready, ALREADY certified, ALREADY has a component base, ALREADY is being produced, pilots are ALREADY trained for it.
          MC-21 is not yet certified and it is STILL NOT clear when it will start production. AND HE WILL STILL partially depend on imported components.
          Two aircraft in the same class can quickly eliminate dependence on foreign aircraft and give potential buyers more choice.
          PS
          I didn’t begin to write directly, but it was sabotage to start the MS-21, when it was possible to simply renovate the Tu-214, just as the Superjet was outright sabotage in the presence of a ready-made Tu-334.
          1. 0
            27 December 2021 12: 44
            Quote: Marzhetsky
            Tu-214 is ALREADY ready, ALREADY certified, ALREADY has a component base, ALREADY is being produced, pilots are ALREADY trained for it.

            Add to it that commercial companies have ALREADY refused to operate it. And no matter how we evaluate capitalism, production should pay off, and not be subsidized in operation.

            Quote: Marzhetsky
            domestic industry cannot produce airplanes in large quantities

            The one that exists today, of course, cannot. And the larger the lineup, the less it will be able to do it in the future. What's incomprehensible? Why make products that they don't buy?

            Quote: Marzhetsky
            sabotage was to start the MS-21, when it was possible to simply renovate the Tu-214, just as the Superjet was an outright sabotage in the presence of a ready-made Tu-334.

            Maybe. But this has already happened, and there is no turning back. Today it is necessary to resolve the issues of accelerating the expansion of production through the release of existing capacities from unclaimed models and the construction of new plants in the future.
            1. -1
              27 December 2021 15: 48
              Add to it that commercial companies have ALREADY refused to operate it. And no matter how we evaluate capitalism, production should pay off, and not be subsidized in operation.

              Engines need to be changed and that's it

              The one that exists today, of course, cannot. And the larger the lineup, the less it will be able to do it in the future. What's incomprehensible? Why make products that they don't buy?

              The engines need to be changed and that's it.
              1. +1
                27 December 2021 16: 03
                Quote: Marzhetsky
                Engines need to be changed and that's it

                Is that all? So simple??? And why did no one except you guess before? Urgently write a letter to Manturov. That will be delighted with new ideas ... laughing
                1. 0
                  27 December 2021 16: 41
                  Manturov just doesn't need it. Like all domestic liberals.
                  They should cut the money and tie the country to cooperation with Western partners
              2. 0
                27 December 2021 19: 58
                Well, probably change the engine in the Zhiguli and that's it, business is it;)
              3. +1
                29 December 2021 13: 31
                Quote: Marzhetsky
                The engines need to be changed and that's it.

                These words fully cancel all the goodies from the fact that ...

                Quote: Marzhetsky
                Tu-214 is ALREADY ready, ALREADY certified, ALREADY has a component base, ALREADY is being produced, pilots are ALREADY trained for it.

                The aircraft, whose "engines must be changed and that's it," is certified as new, and in terms of the volume of development and pitfalls, it is no better than a new one. The Americans also wondered that they would change the engines on the 737th and that was it ...
            2. +1
              30 December 2021 03: 09
              Quote: Marzhetsky
              Tu-214 is ALREADY ready, ALREADY.

              The ideas of the author of the article are also close and understandable to me, but I will support my colleague

              Quote: Dan
              Maybe. But this has already happened, and there is no turning back. Today it is necessary to resolve the issues of accelerating the expansion of production through the release of existing capacities from unclaimed models and the construction of new plants in the future.

              .. I will also add to develop the support chain on the 21st. If the production workers master it and the managers do not pay off, then on their territory there will be a chance to move 320/737. The military needs a platform of this class, among other things.
              Localized MCs and Sukhoi have a chance in their own country, and then who else will catch up ...
      2. +2
        26 December 2021 19: 53
        The needs for today are already covered by ... foreign cars. In order for the mass production of our aircraft to work, it is necessary to oblige to register the aircraft in Russia, and not on the British Vergin Islands.
        Britain can stop all Russian aviation traffic in one go by simply suspending aircraft registrations.
        Tu 204 is a one-to-one copy of the Boeing 757.
        Both are standing under my windows, indistinguishable)
        Tu 204 This is already the past. MC - 21 and superjet is the future.
        Tu 204 needs to be massively used by the Air Force, it would be the desire of the MO.
        1. -1
          27 December 2021 06: 59
          Tu-204 was artificially made "past". He may have a good future with new engines.
          1. +1
            27 December 2021 20: 01
            How to understand it, made the past artificially?
            Of course, with new engines, he can find a new life. But all the same, MC - 21 is a much more interesting prospect.
          2. 0
            28 December 2021 13: 57
            On the Tu-204, the rigging has already been cut and scrapped, what kind of future it might have. The plane has been completely taken out of production, there is nothing to make it on.
  3. +3
    26 December 2021 15: 46
    Let them compete, especially since a black wing is now available for Tu-shek, PD-14 engines, in any case, it is necessary to install on Tu 204/214, this is obvious, but foreign customers can slightly - "what do you please" want our engines, please, yours for God's sake. Competition is always good. Only the number of new aircraft required in the Russian Federation, and in the future it will increase significantly, because the depreciation of old and without that used Boeings and aircrafts will be multiple. I do not exclude in the future the merger of Tu with Ms-ohm. Someone will redeem someone, and turn around in a new way.
    1. 0
      27 December 2021 12: 48
      Quote: Oleg Ermakov
      the black wing is now also available for Tu-shek, PD-14 motors, in any case, must be installed on Tu 204/214

      This is all possible when redesigning an aircraft. And this is not a cheap job and entails all the same tests and certification. Tell me why? If you already have MS-21. And it is cheaper to organize a service for one model of an aircraft than for several.
      1. -1
        27 December 2021 15: 48
        There is no MS-21 yet. There is no avionics for it and whatnot.
        1. +1
          27 December 2021 16: 06
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          There is no MS-21 yet. There is no avionics for it and whatnot.

          Avionics is a set of electronic systems, mainly flight and navigation systems, installed on board an aircraft.

          I'm embarrassed to ask, how did he go through the tests, did he fly without these systems? Maybe you meant something else?

          Flight certification tests of the MC-21-300 medium-range narrow-body airliner have been completed, and in the near future the aircraft will receive a type certificate. This was announced by the Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov in an interview with the TC "Russia 24"

          So the plane is there, there is no production, yet. But no one takes 204 except for state employees. How do you see his fate in the Civil Air Fleet? Sucked as not profitable?
          1. 0
            27 December 2021 16: 43
            A large batch of on-board electronics was purchased for the MC-21 before the ban on its delivery in Russia. So far, it is the stocks that are being used. You cannot build serial production on a warehouse stock.

            But no one takes 204 except for state employees. How do you see his fate in the Civil Air Fleet? Sucked as not profitable?

            Tu-214 was purposefully driven out. With new engines, he can get a second life.
  4. -1
    26 December 2021 15: 56
    Let the Tu-204 be used for re-equipment for a long-range submarine warfare aircraft, otherwise things are very bad with the Il-38N and Tu-142M.
    1. +1
      26 December 2021 19: 55
      This is obvious to everyone, but "things are still there" ...
  5. +3
    26 December 2021 18: 11
    As of January 2017, the Defense Ministry's fleet had more than 20 medium-haul Tu-154 airliners: 14 Tu-154B-2 (1979-1985), which include the plane that crashed near Sochi, and seven Tu-154M (1986-2013) ... Two years later, the military department's fleet was replenished with a Tu-2M aircraft, produced in 154, which underwent overhaul at the Aviakor plant in 2005.
    So only for narrow tasks (PLO, reconnaissance, etc.) Tu-204 can be considered.
    1. -1
      27 December 2021 06: 57
      Aren't you confused by the years of production of the listed aircraft? Especially the fact that they have already been discontinued?
      After modernization, the Tu-214M can perform the widest range of tasks - both in the military and in the civilian sphere.
      1. +1
        27 December 2021 07: 54
        Of course, it is striking: the optimal would be to gradually replace the 154s 40 years ago with 204s. But the military prefer to restore the aircraft removed from the "civilian" aircraft. The above aircraft belonged to the abolished Continent airline and stood for several years at the Krasnoyarsk airport ..
  6. 0
    26 December 2021 18: 22
    The idea is good.
    but since the 22nd year is suitable, and no one has even tried this, then ... it means that no one needs it.
    it would seem that there is a ready-made, tested model. Take it and upgrade. Change engines, avionics, materials ...
    But ... you can see that you can't wash a lot on this ...
    And Medvedev and K loves Boeings more ...
    1. 0
      26 December 2021 19: 57
      Medvedev is an economist, liberal, and globalist. For him, protectionism is unacceptable. Although he may have already changed ...
  7. 0
    26 December 2021 23: 33
    Update? Why create internal competition? Buying money into development and certification? Form 2 parallel systems of service and pilot training? Why waste all these resources? It is easier to deploy MS21 production in Ulyanovsk in versions for the military or a special squad.
    1. 0
      27 December 2021 06: 54
      The fact is that under the Tu-214 all this ALREADY is
    2. 0
      30 January 2022 21: 38
      what Ulyanovsk??!! Hello!! For him, mass production was built in Irkutsk
  8. -1
    26 December 2021 23: 54
    I don’t think that Sukhoi will start mass production of MS-21. We need to build a new plant, and Ulyanovsk and Kazan will at least start mass production of TU-204 with new engines right now. grandchildren have grown up and trade yachts and villas in Nice.
    1. 0
      27 December 2021 00: 54
      Quote: mykola kovacs
      I do not think that the Sukhoi firm will establish mass production of the MS-21.

      What does Sukhoi have to do with MS-21?

      Ulyanovsk and Kazan will even start mass production of TU-204 with new engines right now.

      It is said that the last airline has abandoned this aircraft. Who will buy?

      But then HOW to steal the Putinids who have stuck to the new project? Kodla wants to eat. Already the grandchildren have grown up and trade yachts and villas in Nice.

      Probably you don't know much about this issue at all. The biggest uncontrolled money is the period of R&D and preparation of the first samples. It's already over. In mass production, there are much fewer such possibilities. If done and successfully, then you need to build in series.
      1. 0
        27 December 2021 06: 55
        It is said that the last airline has abandoned this aircraft. Who will buy?

        Refused because of the old engine. With the new liner it will be completely competitive
        1. 0
          27 December 2021 10: 58
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          It is said that the last airline has abandoned this aircraft. Who will buy?

          Refused because of the old engine. With the new liner it will be completely competitive

          Why such confidence?
          Campaign you do not understand what a budget cut is. This is when something is done, then it’s not necessary anymore, let's do something else fancy or modernize it.
          Remotrization is time and money. The aircraft's avionics are already outdated, a new one is needed. Etc. etc.
          As they said here, the plane is generally not bad, for the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Emergency Situations it will go down, everything is not so critical there, the main thing is that it is reliable. So let them do it for them
  9. -1
    27 December 2021 15: 50
    Quote: mister-red
    Quote: Marzhetsky
    It is said that the last airline has abandoned this aircraft. Who will buy?

    Refused because of the old engine. With the new liner it will be completely competitive

    Why such confidence?
    Campaign you do not understand what a budget cut is. It’s when something is done, then it’s like it’s not needed anymore, let's do something else or modernize it.
    Remotrization is time and money. The aircraft's avionics are already outdated, a new one is needed. Etc. etc.
    As they said here, the plane is not bad as a whole, it will come off for the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, everything is not so critical there, the main thing is that it is reliable. So let them do it for them

    You contradict yourself smile
    1. 0
      29 December 2021 23: 27
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      Quote: mister-red
      Quote: Marzhetsky
      It is said that the last airline has abandoned this aircraft. Who will buy?

      Refused because of the old engine. With the new liner it will be completely competitive

      Why such confidence?
      Campaign you do not understand what a budget cut is. This is when something is done, then it’s not necessary anymore, let's do something else fancy or modernize it.
      Remotorization is time and money. The aircraft's avionics are already outdated, a new one is needed. Etc. etc.
      As they said here, the plane is generally not bad, for the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Emergency Situations it will go down, everything is not so critical there, the main thing is that it is reliable. So let them do it for them

      You contradict yourself smile

      What is the contradiction? Sawing opportunities in serial production are scanty in comparison with the preparatory stages. The fate of this modernization will be as follows: it will take a lot of time and money to adjust the engines, avionics, do something about the cabin, because it is outdated, etc. Then when the plane is ready, they will say that one hell of it is outdated, you need to make a new one. And MC is outdated too, doesn't fit at all. This is the sawmill's dream.
      Remember some time ago they began to drive to the Angara, that they were morally outdated, very expensive, etc. And we need to make a new rocket. And the amers have a Delta, worth 1/2 billion per launch. And they sometimes launch it. And they will launch, despite the fact that there is a Musk rocket. Because this is to ensure the safety of the country and the independence of launches from random factors. Thank God they defended the Angar, and you need to see if it's expensive or not after a couple of dozen launches.
      I explain in general in a simple way, using the example of a planned socialist economy, where production is under strict control. In his youth, he worked for several years in the machine shop of the plant, which actually produced microcircuits for military needs. So, we are doing some kind of installation for testing microcircuits for tightness. All metalworking specialists of the workshop participate in the process: milling operators, turners, grinders, coordinators. An experimental batch is being made. The norms are simply divine, earnings are just a dream. The installation passes all tests and is accepted into series. And that's it, the lafa is over. Technologists do not crawl out of the shop, the norms are licked and earnings for the same operations fall by two, if not three times. But there was no cutting according to the modern. And estimate how much can be pumped out of a simple modernization at the present time.
      1. 0
        31 December 2021 13: 55
        You don’t need to explain anything to me. I myself can explain something to anyone smile
        1. 0
          10 January 2022 13: 51
          Quote: Marzhetsky
          You don’t need to explain anything to me. I myself can explain something to anyone smile

          I am sincerely happy for you)
  10. +1
    27 December 2021 18: 05
    Tu 214 can be used to make a carrier of stealth cruise missiles x-59mk2, a tanker, a reconnaissance aircraft, even an AWACS
    1. 0
      27 December 2021 20: 10
      AWACS and a tanker exist on the basis of the IL-76.

      At least 2 years ago, the armament of the Ministry of Defense consisted of 4 reconnaissance aircraft (2 Tu-214R, 2 Tu-214ON). The modernization program of the Il-38 to the level of the Il-38N was caused by the termination of funding for the Tu-204P (anti-submarine) project. At the same time, at least 30 Tu-204/214 passenger versions are in storage today.
  11. -1
    30 December 2021 22: 09
    Quote: Marzhetsky
    You do not take into account the fact that the domestic industry cannot produce airplanes in large quantities. They will do it a teaspoon per year. This is an objective reality.
    Tu-214 is ALREADY ready, ALREADY certified, ALREADY has a component base, ALREADY is being produced, pilots are ALREADY trained for it.
    MC-21 is not yet certified and it is STILL NOT clear when it will start production. AND HE WILL STILL partially depend on imported components.
    Two aircraft in the same class can quickly eliminate dependence on foreign aircraft and give potential buyers more choice.
    PS
    I didn’t begin to write directly, but it was sabotage to start the MS-21, when it was possible to simply renovate the Tu-214, just as the Superjet was outright sabotage in the presence of a ready-made Tu-334.

    And there are two more very interesting points:
    1. Which liner is safer in operation and more reliable? It may very well be that the Tu-214.
    2. Which liner requires fewer foreign parts? It may very well be that the Tu-214.
    Yes, wreckers, right, comrade Beria ?! smile
    1. -1
      31 December 2021 13: 54
      Everything is just that.
  12. +2
    30 December 2021 23: 57
    In my opinion - a good machine, replace current equipment - and go!
    1. -1
      31 December 2021 15: 03
      The simpler it is, the more reliable it is. See why the Sukhoi Superjet 100 disaster happened at Sheremetyevo airport in May 2019?
      On old planes of Soviet design and a simple control system (not via a computer), nothing of the kind could not have happened in principle!
  13. 0
    4 January 2022 08: 04
    The military needs AWACS, PLO aircraft, transports, tankers and cruise missile carriers. You need to use established production until it is optimized. The sanctions strangle the MS-21 and SSJ 100 even without military use, and with the Il-76 constant braking.
  14. 0
    11 January 2022 09: 15
    The state is obliged to recreate the aviation industry, for this it must, keeping defense in mind, create a competitive environment. Tupolev needs help with a serial civilian aircraft if they have concrete real proposals for the further advancement of 204/214.
  15. 0
    16 January 2022 17: 55
    MC 21, this is the last thing we will spit out under the current government...
  16. 0
    30 January 2022 21: 35
    There is a little nuance
    the aircraft is heavier than analogues by 8 tons !!!!
    and this is the verdict
  17. +1
    1 February 2022 17: 29
    Naturally, in the 90s, this was their own headless government, which, like a litter, lay under the Americans and deliberately ruined our aviation, is now beginning to understand something when we were surrounded like wolves with red flags from all sides. The Tu family has a big plus at least in the fact that it has had all possible flight certificates for a long time, it has been run in and confirmed its high reliability, therefore it is easier to upgrade it, production is established, and competition (competition) between its own is also a plus (remember at least that such a tyrant as Stalin understood this better than the current government, with their stupid philosophy of enlarging and uniting everything, which supported and arranged a competition between aircraft designers, choosing the best!). The more choice - the better the product! ..
  18. 0
    11 February 2022 21: 54
    It is enough to look at the life of 2 projects - An-12 and S-130 "Hercules". The answer is obvious. Tu - 204/214 fell into a time period when the modernization work was not realistic. There is no point in starting this work today. PD - 14 can provide the MS - 21 program only by 30%, and here it is also required. The disabled plant "Aviastar - SP" will not master 2 models. 1 model, 3 pieces per year, ale do. The project will not be completed quickly. There are no extra designers and designers. And most importantly - who will finance? With the current economic model, this is impossible. The conclusion is simple - you can’t eat, don’t torture your throat.