Why the Moon, not Mars, should become the second homeland of mankind

December 22 2021 73

One of the most attractive and at the same time absurd ideas of our time is the speedy colonization of Mars. It is most actively promoted by the "PR genius" American billionaire Elon Musk, who declares that he is ready to die on the Red Planet. Well, the latter is easy. Let's talk about whether it is really worth spending resources on the "Martian race", and what might actually be behind it.

According to Musk, humanity is closer to colonizing Mars than ever before. Naturally, thanks to him and his company SpaceX. Quite a controversial statement, but first things first.

A Space Odyssey by Elon Musk

In the mind of a billionaire, a mission to the Red Planet might look like this. The BFS spacecraft, the Big Fucking Spaceship, aka Big Fucking Spaceship, will fly to Mars, and the giant reusable BFR launch vehicle, the Big Fucking Rocket, will launch it into orbit. It will fly to the spacecraft in orbit until it fills its tanks with methane to the brim. After "Big Fucking Spaceship" will release solar panels and fly towards the target with a hundred colonists on board. The flight duration should be between 30 and 90 days.

The launches will take place every two years, when the third and fourth planets in the solar system are closest to each other. The ships of the next generation will be able to send already 200 settlers. According to Musk's calculations, in about 5000 flights it will be possible to form a stable self-sufficient settlement on the Red Planet. At the same time, SpaceX promises to make "Big Fucking Spaceship" a return ship. To do this, already on the Red Planet, it will be necessary to somehow produce a sufficient amount of methane.

For those who grew up on science fiction novels and "space operas", all this seems to be quite realizable and terribly romantic, which is what the "PR genius" actively uses. But is it really so?

The time has not come

There is a huge amount of scientific and popular science literature explaining why Elon Musk's project is not feasible in the foreseeable future. Here are the most key points.

At first, humanity does not yet have a powerful enough launch vehicle capable of sending an expedition even to the close Moon, what is Mars?

Secondly, the flight itself will turn into a real nightmare. For example, the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics named after K.E. Tsiolkovsky prepared a work entitled "Manned Expedition to Mars", from where we will quote the following passage:

Space motion sickness, sinus congestion, constipation, headache, skin irritation and dryness, abscesses, minor abrasions and bruises, corneal inflammation or abrasions, upper respiratory tract infection, insomnia, otitis media.

Constipation and otitis media - and no interstellar romance for you! Plus, the loss of muscle and bone tissue from weightlessness, plus the flow of blood from the lower extremities to the upper body and to the head to edema and other negative reactions of the body. Also, despite the protection of the spacecraft, the astronauts will inevitably receive their share of radiation, which can be fatal if a powerful flash occurs on the Sun during the flight. No wonder Mr. Musk honestly warns:

Are you ready to die? Then you are the right fit for us.

Thirdly, even if the flight goes well and the ship sails, then what? How and where to live there, what do the colonists do for the rest of their lives? The Red Planet does not have a magnetic field, therefore it is not protected from the terrible solar radiation. That is, you cannot walk romantically in spacesuits on the reddish dunes, because then you will die in agony.

In reality, you will have to dig deep under the surface and live in bunkers, which you still have to build from something, somehow provide water, air, electricity and other necessary supplies. And where to get it? Take it with you? You don't get dung. Interplanetary flights are no joke, every gram of payload is worth its weight in gold. Produce locally? And from what? An industry capable of producing, for example, domes for settlements, water filters or nuclear reactors will not come out of nowhere. Local resources still need to be explored and developed, if they are found there at all in the required volumes.

The romance will end in 1-2 weeks, and then life will turn into a real hard labor. And for this Elon Musk wants to sign a million people? Terraform Mars so that there is air and apple trees bloom? Of such of technologies humanity does not have it yet, unless it is to carry out a thermonuclear bombardment of the Red Planet, as the "PR genius" spoke of.

Sorry, of course, but this is all unrealistic at the current level of technical development. And most importantly, why all this? To settle the human race on several planets so that it does not die at once on Earth during a global cataclysm? Wouldn't it be easier for the "hegemon" to stop waving the "nuclear club", aiming its ICBMs at Russia and China? Humanity will die out from the consequences of a nuclear or bacteriological war rather than from an asteroid hitting the planet.

By the way, this whole venture of Mr. Musk with Mars is very much reminiscent of the justification for the launch of nuclear weapons by the Americans into orbit, allegedly to "warm up" the atmosphere of the Red Planet. Well, we don’t believe it!

What to do and where to fly?

Summarize. Colonization and even more so the terraforming of the Red Planet in the coming decades is simply impossible. If someone wants to fly there in spite of everything, then please. But this will clearly be a one-time expedition. Quite possibly one way. The level of technology still has to seriously grow to the realization of such tasks.

For example, instead of a chemical or nuclear engine, the ship should be equipped with an annihilation engine powered by antimatter. It sounds, at first glance, fantastic, but in fact, it is much more realistic than Musk's project. The dimensions of such a ship will be several times smaller, and the speed will be higher, which will make a visit to Mars not a feat, but a completely routine event. By the way, quite real steps towards interplanetary flights are being made on Earth, where they have already learned to obtain antimatter, albeit in microscopic quantities.

As for the need for the resettlement of mankind on other planets, then everything is ambiguous here. If colonists from warring countries will actually move to Mars, then where is the guarantee that they will not kill each other in the event of a war between them on Earth? The moral is this: if you want to master the Red Planet, first agree with each other on your own, and then colonize it together, in the marks of international cooperation, like the ISS.

By the way, the second home for humanity could well become the Moon, which is closer, better explored, and the cost of delivering materials and equipment to it would be incomparably less than to Mars.

Information

Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.

Bakht

+3

22 December 2021 14: 57

There is no magnetic field on the moon either. Today, this is a huge problem. Moreover, there is no air and water. You can dream. Hardly feasible in our time.
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  22 December 2021 15: 04
  
  You can settle inside the craters. And even necessary. But this is more realistic than cutting to Mars.
  There is water on the moon. Read or search for videos by Vladimir Surdin, how everyone is now preparing to develop the lunar water resources.
  1. Bakht
    
    +2
    
    22 December 2021 15: 22
    
    Maybe. In solid form, not in direct sunlight. Both options (Mars and the Moon) are unrealistic in the next tens of years (perhaps a hundred years).
    There are projects, no one argues with this. It's easier to build underwater cities.
    
    https://gge.ru/press-center/news/doma-budushchego-kak-ustroeny-gidropolisy/
    1. Marzhecki
      
      +1
      
      22 December 2021 15: 37
      
      Maybe. In solid form, not in direct sunlight. Both options (Mars and the Moon) are unrealistic in the next tens of years (perhaps a hundred years).
      There are projects, no one argues with this. It's easier to build underwater cities.
      
      The moon could become real on the horizon in 20-30 years, I guess.
      Mars - 100-200 years, when (if) there are corresponding engines in the iron
      
      It's easier to build underwater cities.
      
      Underwater cities are not so absurd in the case of a real overpopulation of the Earth. Much easier than to cut to Mars or the Moon. But first, you can populate the taiga, Sahara, Antarctica.
      1. Kristallovich
        
        -1
        
        22 December 2021 15: 48
        
        Given the progression in technology development, the first manned landing on Mars will take place no later than 2050.
      2. shinobi
        
        +1
        
        23 December 2021 07: 33
        
        Mother nature invented a way to combat overpopulation long before the appearance of a common ancestor of primates and homo sapiens as a species in particular. and a developed nervous system) one funny mechanism. It turns off the feeling of self-care and the instinct of survival when a certain number of individuals per unit area is increased. Lemings are massively drowned, pigeons generally lose the fear of being trampled by passers-by, chickens peck each other, well, etc. Examples of darkness. Man is no exception. Only as the pinnacle of evolution, (or its mistake?) He invented war and genocide as its particular manifestation.
zzdimk

+1

22 December 2021 15: 04

Hunting mask in real life to have time to play Doom. There is no further explanation for his desire to create flamethrowers and spaceships.
dub0vitsky

+2

22 December 2021 15: 30

Masks thrive as long as suckers and ignoramuses exist. The article does not consider the case of a psychological shift due to the constant danger of losing the most valuable thing. what will be needed there - AIR. Water, food, in theory (IN THEORY) can be renewable. It is known that each person in a closed cycle requires 17 tons of water. Plants and bioremediation allow this water to be driven in a circle. Chlorella, REPA, what else can grow there quickly? - will allow SURVIVAL for a while. BUT AIR !!!!! It will be lost, inevitably, with each entry and exit from the living capsule. Apart from possible leaks through holes. To save money and reduce losses, sit and not poke around? And the hell then fly there? Oxygen production can be adjusted. There, perhaps, there is water, you can somehow learn to squeeze out of rocks. Brave Tailor, after all, squeezed. But, the gradual REPLACEMENT of the imported nitrogen, flowing away with the air, entering the atmosphere of the Earth for oxygen ..... This is death. How to generate nitrogen? Has anyone thought about this? The astronaut, having gone mad, drilled the ISS in order to quickly escape from there. I can imagine how many such cases there will be, in anthropoids, in which homo quickly turns, which is sapiens in extreme conditions.
Marzhecki

0

22 December 2021 15: 34

Quote: dub0vitsky
Masks thrive as long as suckers and ignoramuses exist. The article does not consider the case of a psychological shift due to the constant danger of losing the most valuable thing. what will be needed there - AIR.

I immediately pointed out that there are a lot of counterarguments, and gave the most obvious ones.
Bulanov

0

22 December 2021 16: 18

Cayce predicted that Mars would be colonized at the end of the 3rd millennium by the Russians and Chinese. In the meantime, live peacefully on this planet, if you want to live.
dub0vitsky

+2

22 December 2021 16: 47

Quote: Kristallovich
Given the progression in technology development, the first manned landing on Mars will take place no later than 2050.

I read about a hero who planned to accomplish his feat by noon. He still declared war on England. This is not about you? Confuse the progression (which, curious - arithmetic, geometric) with progress. Strongly. And where, one wonders, do ignoramuses climb into the Kalash row?
Bakht

+4

22 December 2021 16: 52

The influence of the magnetic field on the human body is enormous. How often do we look at the forecast of magnetic storms? Seniors almost every day.

Employees of the Scientific Center for Clinical and Experimental Medicine of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, under the leadership of Academician of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences V.P. Kaznacheev, created and tested magnetic isolation chambers, in which it was possible to reduce the earth's magnetism by 50 thousand times. Experiments with cell cultures have shown that they live and develop no more than eight to ten generations, and then degrade and die.

An experiment was carried out under the leadership of L. Nepomnyashchikh with mice placed in shielded chambers. Literally a day later, they began to decompose their tissues. The cubs of these mice were born bald and grew up sick.

As far as man is concerned, the situation is as follows. A short stay (fifteen to twenty sessions of 20 minutes) has a beneficial effect on a person. But staying longer is detrimental.
As a result of numerous experiments, it was concluded that protein-nucleic acid life is impossible without an electromagnetic environment.
Even a small change in the magnetic field negatively affects the psychophysical state of a person with a complex electromagnetic structure and magnetically sensitive blood.

The lack of a magnetic field won't kill instantly. But the colonization of planets is impossible without a protective electromagnetic field. This is one of the arguments of skeptics of flights to the moon by American astronauts. Although the Americans claim that they took into account the influence of the Van Allen Belt

Ionizing radiation has a harmful effect on astronauts. Radiation in the Van Allen belt destroys tissue, disrupts metabolism, lowers immunity and increases the risk of developing malignant neoplasms. Trajectories of controlled spacecraft are aligned in such a way as to minimize the presence of astronauts in radiation belts. This approach was used by American scientists when planning a flight to the moon. The participants of the Apollo program, who visited the charged magnetosphere, received an annual absorbed dose of 2-11,4 mSv (the safe level of radiation is 50 mSv).

Until an artificial electromagnetic field is created, colonization is impossible.

PS When the Lord created the Earth, for some reason he thought about protecting living creatures. Elon Musk is clearly not the Lord.
zenion

0

22 December 2021 17: 00

Brought the planet to the state of getting out of here. The planet complained to God. God, I'm in trouble, people got started.
1. shiva
  
  0
  
  22 December 2021 20: 28
  
  Joke.
  
  Two planets meet:
  - Hi friend!
  - healthy! How are you?
  - sucks, I got people. Something is being drilled, they are blowing up, I scratch myself in all immodest places.
  - nothing, friend! I also had people, they also itched at first, then they passed by themselves. Be patient a little.
  
  A variant of the ending - a couple of asteroid tablets - and everything passed. I advise! Chmoki, girlfriend!
dub0vitsky

+1

22 December 2021 17: 06

Quote: Marzhetsky
The moon could become real on the horizon in 20-30 years, I guess.
Mars - 100-200 years, when (if) there are corresponding engines in the iron

You see what a thing. It's not about the engines. No matter how long the move lasts, it ends. A month, two, six months. The difference is small. Conversation, after all, this is not about six months. FOREVER. We need to think about THIS. Well, let's open annihilation. We will fly in three seconds. And it ALWAYS remains. A hostile world, an underground (in the sense of a subterranean) habitat. Card system for the consumption of TOTAL. The most severe discipline, bordering on tyranny. Will you agree to this? AND IN THE NAME OF WHAT? to have the main PROCESS, not the RESULT. Download minerals to Earth? Acclimatize in the event of the death of the Earth? Perhaps humanity on Earth will perish, and THERE will no longer be humanity. The devil knows what, but not civilization. Here, just SUCH aspirations to nowhere accelerate the end. For they waste resources aimlessly. It is already obvious that they are finite. Who the hell, no matter how you, the humanities does not understand that it is not necessary to transform the planets, but to change themselves. Water and sand on Earth - the materials that provide thousands of years of life for mankind on Earth, that's what you need to learn how to use. Water is the source of fusion. Silicon oxide - you can make anything from it. And end with wars.
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  22 December 2021 20: 02
  
  Well, I kind of wrote about this myself in the article
  Just the speed of the flight and the increased carrying capacity will increase the possibilities for colonization. You look, by the time such speeds are reached, technologies for terraforming planets will appear. They say that theoretically it is possible to remake the atmosphere on Venus by spraying genetically modified blue-green algae there. The process will take hundreds of years. This is a groundwork for future generations.
  But will they need to move somewhere? The lunar man will be very different from the earthly man (different gravity, etc.). Perhaps there will be a Venusian man, adapted to local conditions, a Martian man.
  Is humanity ready for such a division within its own species?
  PS
  From the real: if there is a goal of diversifying the risks of destruction of humanity from a cataclysm, it is necessary to create an international Luna City, issue the citizenship of the Moon to the settlers, canceling old passports. Transfer there the base of the genetic codes of plants and animals of the Earth for the possibility of their restoration in case of need.
  This is a relatively realistic option. as opposed to the colonization of Mars. IMHO.
  1. shiva
    
    +2
    
    22 December 2021 20: 59
    
    A person resettled in the first generation will already be a new not even a nation, but a race, for completely different living conditions - and, consequently, the cultural and social environment, plus changes in appearance due to the conditions of existence. Imagine Mowgli. Now imagine the Mowgli civilization and what will you do in it if you want to move to colonized Mars?
    And after several generations - taking into account morphological changes and hereditary mutations - a new species. And the dialogue with a new kind of people from the earth will not be very different from the dialogue with dolphins.
    Isn't it easier to colonize with the help of robotic stations with artificial intelligence, which, after completing their task, which does not require the death of thousands of the first people sent to one end, in 50-100 years will meekly accept the settlers on literally prepared soil?
    1. Marzhecki
      
      0
      
      23 December 2021 07: 54
      
      Isn't it easier to colonize with the help of robotic stations with artificial intelligence, which, after completing their task, which does not require the death of thousands of the first people sent to one end, in 50-100 years will meekly accept the settlers on literally prepared soil?
      
      Of course, it's easier. So, most likely, it will be.
2. Bakht
  
  +2
  
  22 December 2021 20: 44
  
  but THERE will no longer be humanity. God knows what, but not civilization
  
  Recently I watched the series "The Expanse". Nice shot, though I didn't really like it. You can still see it. But the conversation is not about that. There humanity is divided into three groups "Earthlings", "Martians" and "Asteroids". They have different psychologies, different habits, and different problem-solving methods. Just because of the different habitats. Just in your words.
  1. Marzhecki
    
    0
    
    23 December 2021 08: 08
    
    There humanity is divided into three groups "Earthlings", "Martians" and "Asteroids". They have different psychologies, different habits, and different problem-solving methods. Just because of the different habitats. Just in your words.
    
    So I am about the same. The division will take place. By the way, if anything, the intraspecific struggle is the most fierce.
dub0vitsky

+1

22 December 2021 20: 29

Quote: Marzhetsky
Well, I kind of wrote about this myself in the article
Just the speed of the flight and the increased carrying capacity will increase the possibilities for colonization. You look, by the time such speeds are reached, technologies for terraforming planets will appear. They say that theoretically it is possible to remake the atmosphere on Venus by spraying genetically modified blue-green algae there. The process will take hundreds of years. This is a groundwork for future generations.
But will they need to move somewhere? The lunar man will be very different from the earthly man (different gravity, etc.). Perhaps there will be a Venusian man, adapted to local conditions, a Martian man.
Is humanity ready for such a division within its own species?
PS
From the real: if there is a goal of diversifying the risks of destruction of humanity from a cataclysm, it is necessary to create an international Luna City, issue the citizenship of the Moon to the settlers, canceling old passports. Transfer there the base of the genetic codes of plants and animals of the Earth for the possibility of their restoration in case of need.
This is a relatively realistic option. as opposed to the colonization of Mars. IMHO.

An illiterate in the human technique is seen. Yes, not the speed will allow, but the possibilities of production. Preparation, the ship is 10% of the difficulties. GIRL, cargo for transportation - that's what you break your head over. If you are going to visit, you will definitely forget something and come back if it is critically important. And then get ready for THAT LIGHT, write a list of what you need. FOR ALL CASES. What is six months? Compared to tens of years of design work, preparation of production, logistics ... While one is doing, a hundred others turn sour and become unusable. What, hundreds of thousands of factories will work at the same time? Are you crazy to organize all this ..... Here they fly for a week, and then ... Diversification. Greater foolishness is impossible to meet. Agafya Lykova. This is what will happen in five years. Okay, Robinson is a fictional character. You don't have to learn from his example. Two generations and that's it. Completely out of touch with reality. The DIFFICULTY of technology grows quadratically, and the possibilities of its production - linearly. Watt built the locomotive in a year, in his kitchen. How many years will he build the Large Hadron Collider? The plant where I worked for a long time produced 77 products. Serially. And the number of equipment was up to 12 thousand units. Products are incomparably simpler than missiles.
dub0vitsky

+1

22 December 2021 20: 56

Quote: Marzhetsky
The lunar man will be very different from the earthly man (different gravity, etc.). Perhaps there will be a Venusian man, adapted to local conditions, a Martian man.

Hundreds of millions of years of evolution have made man so, and nothing else. HOW to remove a Venusian? What genes to replace? Selection? Aren't you a fascist already, ready? Do experiments on humans. Chicken broiler breed. There are still many different crosses (subspecies). Cultured breed. rooster - 7 kilograms, chicken - 5. A cockerel, when attacking a person, is capable of breaking his leg. Through THREE generations of free life in nature and there are no signs of a broiler. All this is not fixed by selection. These are all reversible changes. Dog. On the loose is a mongrel. And no Newfoundland.
1. shiva
  
  -1
  
  22 December 2021 21: 35
  
  Three generations of stupid cows in the Chernobyl exclusion zone - and there is quite a healthy population of wild cows and bulls that fight off herd from wolves, hide in old cowsheds and feel good. If "not bad" suits their life.
  This is almost a new species. Artificial additions to the ancient genome added a large mass and rapid procreation, which positively affected the survival of the new - in fact, the species.
2. Marzhecki
  
  -1
  
  23 December 2021 07: 57
  
  Bullshit. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution have made man so, and nothing else. HOW to remove a Venusian? What genes to replace? Selection? Aren't you a fascist already, ready? Do experiments on humans.
  
  Well, thank you.
  By the way, the change in genes is just seriously considered by scientists for colonization in order to adapt humanity to new conditions.
Kirill D

+1

22 December 2021 21: 13

There are a lot of problems. And sitting on the Earth you will not see even half. It is possible and necessary to fly, in the process we will invent methods to overcome everything.
Well, a hundred idlers on Mars are loud show-offs from Musk
dub0vitsky

+1

22 December 2021 21: 58

Quote: shiva
Three generations of stupid cows in the Chernobyl exclusion zone - and there is quite a healthy population of wild cows and bulls that fight off herd from wolves, hide in old cowsheds and feel good. If "not bad" suits their life.
This is almost a new species. Artificial additions to the ancient genome added a large mass and rapid procreation, which positively affected the survival of the new - in fact, the species.

Are you a specialist biologist? What reason to claim that this is a new species. Do you, in general, understand how a species differs from a class, detachment, class, subspecies, and other things?
dub0vitsky

+1

22 December 2021 22: 03

Quote: shiva
Three generations of stupid cows in the Chernobyl exclusion zone - and there is quite a healthy population of wild cows and bulls that fight off herd from wolves, hide in old cowsheds and feel good. If "not bad" suits their life.
This is almost a new species. Artificial additions to the ancient genome added a large mass and rapid procreation, which positively affected the survival of the new - in fact, the species.

Throw you into this zone, and in three years you will fight off bulls, wolves and other animals. The brains were not enough to understand that not all radiation is destructive. Alpha radiation is trapped by the skin. Beta - deeper layers of muscle. Gamma flies through, practically without touching sensitive centers. Of course, if the intensity is not high. The lack of charge on the neutron makes it ambivalent. The body of an animal is an extremely rare universe, consisting mainly of gaps between atoms. Hence the low probability of getting into the core and destroying it.
dub0vitsky

+1

22 December 2021 22: 26

Quote: shiva
in 50-100 years, will the immigrants meekly accept the soil prepared in the literal sense?

Without the creation of the planet's magnetic field, all changes there are meaningless. For even the accumulated water, the air will go into space, as it all left before for the same reason. The red color of the rock indicates that it is iron oxides. Oxides are a very common material in the Universe. So where did the oxygen go? Exactly, he left, no one detained him in any way. You didn't carry water in a sieve? And why, you, after all, are going to do it now.
1. Bulanov
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 09: 17
  
  So where did the oxygen go?
  
  I don’t know about all the oxygen, but some of the water must have been transferred to Earth during the Great Flood.
  And if electricity is run along the equator, the magnetic field can be obtained, taking into account iron oxides?
2. shiva
  
  +1
  
  23 December 2021 19: 43
  
  The magnetic field must be done in order to walk barefoot across Mars in a T-shirt and shorts. Nobody sets such a task - and the pre-fabricated inflatable domes will come down. The main thing is that the housewives do not open the windows, and they do not try to nail pictures to the inflatable domes. And at first, you will have to wear lead T-shirts and panties in domes. Until the domes become stationary with anti-radiation protection. Yes, plus ten floors deep.
  Eh, try to make love at least once with low gravity - there is room for imagination! The Kamasutra is resting ...
Alexey Davydov

+4

23 December 2021 01: 07

In my opinion, there is something psychologically common in the propaganda of the change of the planet inhabited by mankind, and the apology of life without love. In both cases, a person, by his approach, destroys what makes him alive.
The approach is based on the principle: "when there are many options, it is not scary to lose one of them."
The mistake is that it is VALUE and UNIQUENESS that makes us fight for salvation and preserve what is in danger.
The change of the planet by humanity is a complacent nonsense, depriving those who believed in it, the desire to fight for their home.
If we do not save this wonderful world of ours, we simply will not live to see the times when it will really become relevant and possible to replace it.
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 03: 43

Quote: Marzhetsky
Maybe. In solid form, not in direct sunlight. Both options (Mars and the Moon) are unrealistic in the next tens of years (perhaps a hundred years).
There are projects, no one argues with this. It's easier to build underwater cities.

The moon could become real on the horizon in 20-30 years, I guess.
Mars - 100-200 years, when (if) there are corresponding engines in the iron

It's easier to build underwater cities.

Underwater cities are not so absurd in the case of a real overpopulation of the Earth. Much easier than to cut to Mars or the Moon. But first, you can populate the taiga, Sahara, Antarctica.

- It's easier to start regulating the population of the Earth. Uncontrolled reproduction must be limited.
...............................
To live for a long time - in conditions of gravity 6 times less than that of the Earth (Moon), or 2.64 times less (Mars) - doom those who live there to disability. They will not be able to return to earth, they will not be able to withstand serious overloads in space, they will have irreversible changes in the skeleton, cardiovascular system, etc.
There (on the Moon and Mars) only those who really need it - scientists, some industrial workers - and rich tourists will live on a rotational basis ...
1. Marzhecki
  
  -1
  
  23 December 2021 07: 58
  
  To live for a long time - in conditions of gravity 6 times less than that of the Earth (Moon), or 2.64 times less (Mars) - doom those who live there to disability. They will not be able to return to earth, they will not be able to withstand serious overloads in space, they will have irreversible changes in the skeleton, cardiovascular system, etc.
  
  So the question is that then there will be a new man - lunar, Venusian, Martian, who will have to forget about returning to Earth. In this case, it is clearly necessary to make changes in the genetic structure in order to adapt.
shinobi

0

23 December 2021 07: 15

There is nothing to do without nuclear engines in interplanetary space. Talk about colonization on chemical rockets is bullshit. By the way, this is what Fonbraun said and Korolev was in full agreement with him. The matter is elementary in the price of a kilogram of payload put into orbit. will be built according to a modular scheme, at least a dozen launches will be needed. Not a single state, not to mention private companies, at the moment is simply unable to do this without damage to other objects of its own economy. How much is the ISS there? Multiply by 10.A The ISS is just hanging out in orbit. So all this is a scam for gullible investors. Although no, there is such a principle in progress - a path to achieving a very distant goal, often more valuable than the goal itself.
Michael1950

-1

23 December 2021 08: 52

Quote: Marzhetsky
To live for a long time - in conditions of gravity 6 times less than that of the Earth (Moon), or 2.64 times less (Mars) - doom those who live there to disability. They will not be able to return to earth, they will not be able to withstand serious overloads in space, they will have irreversible changes in the skeleton, cardiovascular system, etc.

So the point is that then there will be a new man - lunar, Venusian, Martian, who will have to forget about returning to Earth ..

- It would be disabled. Or he would have to sweat for 8 hours every day on a variety of simulators in order to maintain the functionality of the body (as astronauts do on the ISS during a many-month flight)

In this case, it is clearly necessary to make changes in the genetic structure in order to adapt

- This is unthinkable - given the level of genetic engineering capabilities in the foreseeable future.
And with the "Venusian man" you got excited - the temperature on the surface of Venus is under 500 ° C and the atmosphere is made of carbon dioxide with clouds of sulfuric acid ... So, hardly ...
1. Bulanov
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 09: 21
  
  According to the sparsely leaked information, organisms similar to centipedes and spiders already live on Venus.
  1. Michael1950
    
    -2
    
    23 December 2021 09: 32
    
    - At a temperature of 460 ° C? Did you even have a "troika" in your biology school ?!
    1. Bulanov
      
      0
      
      23 December 2021 09: 38
      
      Do you know anything about life around the Black Smokers?
      Do you not allow a life based on non-carbon principles?
2. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 11: 17
  
  About Venus there are projects for its terraforming. It is the processing of its crimson clouds by means of genetically modified blue-green bacteria, which will lead to the appearance of oxygen and a decrease in temperature.
  Here a professional person argues on this topic in an interesting way.
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 09: 48

Quote: shiva
Three generations of stupid cows in the Chernobyl exclusion zone - and there is quite a healthy population of wild cows and bulls that fight off herd from wolves, hide in old cowsheds and feel good.

- And they connect themselves to the milking machines!
Sergey Latyshev

0

23 December 2021 09: 49

Once upon a time in the USSR there were songs about "apple trees on Mars"

And in Russia at first they said - but what to do there, on the Moon and Mars.
Then - we will reach the Moon in 2015, and to Mars we will make a nucleus-tug.

Then they stole the money, and the Moon will be there someday - I would like to be in time for the division between Chinese, Amers and Indians.

And as for Mars, there are again the Americans and the Chinese with their missions, so "not that", they don't even remember about the vigorous tug.

And the Moon already simply "should" - (since the money was stolen from Roscosmos)))))
And without the comma in the title)))))

And apparently, the debt of the Moon and Mars to Russia and Roscosmos will continue to grow, according to the results of the Accounts Chamber))))
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 10: 02

Quote: Marzhetsky
Perhaps there will be a Venusian man, adapted to local conditions, a Martian man.

- There will definitely not be a Venusian man, - you did not take into account two more factors that make the terraforming of Venus meaningless: it "lies on its side" and rotates around its axis too slowly.

Venus rotates around its axis, inclined to the orbital plane by 177,36 °, which is why, when viewed from the north pole of the ecliptic, the planet rotates from east to west, that is, in the direction opposite to the direction of rotation of most planets. One revolution around the axis in duration is equal to 243 Earth days. The combination of these movements gives the value of solar days on the planet 116,8 Earth days. Venus makes one revolution around its axis in relation to the Earth in 146 days.
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 11: 20
  
  It will be a very long working day.
  With the current level of technology development, the colonization of Venus is impossible. What will happen next is unknown.
  There are projects for reworking the atmosphere, which are also unrealistic so far, but anything is possible in the future.
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 11: 52

Quote: Bulanov
So where did the oxygen go?

I don’t know about all the oxygen, but some of the water must have been transferred to Earth during the Great Flood.
And if electricity is run along the equator, the magnetic field can be obtained, taking into account iron oxides?

I think that even in the laboratory this cannot be done. On the model. The basis of any rock is not metals, but silicon. This is a good insulator. And inclusions and various oxide films there, penetrating the arrays will not create a sufficiently low resistance to current to have sufficient power. I will tell you how the magnets for sensors that were made at our factory are magnetized. Installation, with a huge number of capacitors, for high voltage. The body, the future magnet, is inserted into a coil of wire, or rather a tire, with a cross-section of the thumb. There is a crap in the installation called ignitron. It organizes an electrical impulse of several million amperes. Of course, no modern semiconductors or contactors can do this. If the future magnet is poorly secured, it shoots like a shell splinter. We need to magnetize, not the manufacturers of the magnetic workpiece. Transport by rail. these things are not allowed. Violates the automation system on the road. You need to magnetize with an extremely short pulse. This is a physical property of magnetic domains that make up any substance.
dub0vitsky

-1

23 December 2021 11: 58

Quote: Marzhetsky
Bullshit. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution have made man so, and nothing else. HOW to remove a Venusian? What genes to replace? Selection? Aren't you a fascist already, ready? Do experiments on humans.

Well, thank you.
By the way, the change in genes is just seriously considered by scientists for colonization in order to adapt humanity to new conditions.

However, you still do not understand all the abomination of these projects of these "scientists". And you try to use them in your assumptions. Congratulations, how are you different from "Dr." Mengele? Those who consider this is a matter of their responsibility and punishment. But you? Soviet man? Yes, where did it come from? It is not geography that makes a person a person, but beliefs. If this is, in principle, permissible for a "good" deed, then why not do it, but for other purposes? It seems that people with an unstable psyche should not be shown American shit with such ideas.
Marzhecki

+1

23 December 2021 12: 57

Quote: dub0vitsky
However, you still do not understand all the abomination of these projects of these "scientists". And you try to use them in your assumptions. Congratulations, how are you different from "Dr." Mengele? Those who consider this is a matter of their responsibility and punishment. But you? Soviet man? Yes, where did it come from?

Look, do you understand the difference between Nazi experiments on defenseless people and a scientific experiment to prepare for extraterrestrial colonization with volunteers?
About comparing me with Mengele (for what reason at all ?!) - it's just meanness.
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 15: 04

Quote: Marzhetsky
Isn't it easier to colonize with the help of robotic stations with artificial intelligence, which, after completing their task, which does not require the death of thousands of the first people sent to one end, in 50-100 years will meekly accept the settlers on literally prepared soil?

Of course, it's easier. So, most likely, it will be.

Don't screw up nonsense. Try to create a job here on Earth, using a deserted technology, well, at least in a mine. He writes about things that are ABSOLUTELY far from logic, reason and understanding. Programmed for all occasions? Do you understand what this is about? Remote control from the ground? The speed of transmission - obtaining information .... illiterate projectors. What is needed is subsurface shelters, and not such. as in a mine - as ventilated as possible from the surface. SEALED, which complicates the work by orders of magnitude. The terrestrial atmosphere of a mine working on Mars - with a pressure different from the pressure on the surface of Mars by almost 1 atmosphere ... is a container with unpredictable fractures and air leaks, possibly at speeds of seconds.
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 16: 11
  
  Don't screw up nonsense. Try to create a job here on Earth, using a deserted technology, well, at least in a mine. He writes about things that are ABSOLUTELY far from logic, reason and understanding. Programmed for all occasions? Do you understand what this is about? Remote control from the ground? The speed of transmission - obtaining information .... We survived completely out of the mind, the projectors are illiterate.
  
  First, it was about AI
  Secondly, you allow yourself too much. Do not be rude to people.
dub0vitsky

-1

23 December 2021 15: 51

Quote: Marzhetsky
Quote: dub0vitsky
However, you still do not understand all the abomination of these projects of these "scientists". And you try to use them in your assumptions. Congratulations, how are you different from "Dr." Mengele? Those who consider this is a matter of their responsibility and punishment. But you? Soviet man? Yes, where did it come from?

Look, do you understand the difference between Nazi experiments on defenseless people and a scientific experiment to prepare for extraterrestrial colonization with volunteers?
About comparing me with Mengele (for what reason at all ?!) - it's just meanness.

And what is the difference - IN PURPOSE? DO THE PURPOSES JUSTIFY THE MEANS? EVERYTHING will match. Both ends and means. ... And how are you different from Mengele? He also moved science. In the same ways. A volunteer can abandon the experiment if he has already been wheeled into hell knows what? Can I unscrew it back? Mengele also had volunteers who volunteered to defend their homeland, and were unable to refuse the experiment. Doctors of Russia. Inoculating themselves with plague, cholera, in the name of SALVING OTHERS. Only a doctor can objectively examine the symptoms, describe, and try, if you have time, to suggest solutions. This is a FEAT. These are the saints. But do the experiment ON OTHERS. A volunteer can be found at any second. Or you don't need to search. For example, use someone sentenced to death. And there is half a step to any crime. You are not a bastard in morality, you mold such monstrous things. There are moral barriers that YOU CANNOT cross. Even if there is no legal prohibition on it. Simply because it is taboo. You can't even get close. You have already lost your bearings. Finally.
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 16: 08
  
  You are not a bastard in morality, you mold such monstrous things. There are moral barriers that YOU CANNOT cross. Even if there is no legal prohibition on it. Simply because it is taboo. You can't even get close. You have already lost your bearings. Finally.
  
  What's wrong with you?
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 15: 54

Quote: Marzhetsky
About Venus there are projects for its terraforming. It is the processing of its crimson clouds by means of genetically modified blue-green bacteria, which will lead to the appearance of oxygen and a decrease in temperature.
Here a professional person argues on this topic in an interesting way.

- I always listen to him with great pleasure. But the question of terraforming Venus is not even the day after tomorrow the question of earthlings. Not even the next 100 years ...
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 16: 07
  
  - I always listen to him with great pleasure. But the question of terraforming Venus is not even the day after tomorrow the question of earthlings. Not even the next 100 years ...
  
  Did I say otherwise? I agree that this is a horizon of 100-200 years. Technology needs to grow, and so does society. It can only be an international project.
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 15: 55

Quote: Marzhetsky
Quote: dub0vitsky
However, you still do not understand all the abomination of these projects of these "scientists". And you try to use them in your assumptions. Congratulations, how are you different from "Dr." Mengele? Those who consider this is a matter of their responsibility and punishment. But you? Soviet man? Yes, where did it come from?

Look, do you understand the difference between Nazi experiments on defenseless people and a scientific experiment to prepare for extraterrestrial colonization with volunteers?
About comparing me with Mengele (for what reason at all ?!) - it's just meanness.

- A friend has problems. Of course, it is possible to modify the human genome (very careful, very accurate), moreover, in the future, it is likely that the transplantation of human consciousness into a cybernetic organism is possible - and thus the extension of its vigorous activity for hundreds of years ...
After all, the human genome is 98.5% identical to the genome of chimpanzees - why worry about its unshakable stability ?! To preserve your identity with chimpanzees, the most vicious and aggressive primate, for a longer time? In addition, cannibalistic?
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 16: 04

Quote: Marzhetsky
It will be a very long working day.
With the current level of technology development, the colonization of Venus is impossible. What will happen next is unknown.
There are projects for reworking the atmosphere, which are also unrealistic so far, but anything is possible in the future.

- There are monstrously gigantic problems of our Earth. The first is littering the oceans... And not at all unnecessary emissions of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, as the clakers of Greta Tumberg's group cry.
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 16: 05
  
  Who can argue with that? But the article is not about that, it seems.
Michael1950

-2

23 December 2021 16: 05

Quote: Bulanov
Do you know anything about life around the Black Smokers?
Do you not allow a life based on non-carbon principles?

- It is necessary to know the measure in fantasies.
Michael1950

-1

23 December 2021 16: 10

Quote: dub0vitsky
Quote: Marzhetsky
Quote: dub0vitsky
However, you still do not understand all the abomination of these projects of these "scientists". And you try to use them in your assumptions. Congratulations, how are you different from "Dr." Mengele? Those who consider this is a matter of their responsibility and punishment. But you? Soviet man? Yes, where did it come from?

Look, do you understand the difference between Nazi experiments on defenseless people and a scientific experiment to prepare for extraterrestrial colonization with volunteers?
About comparing me with Mengele (for what reason at all ?!) - it's just meanness.

And what is the difference - IN PURPOSE? Damn it ..... GOALS JUSTIFY THE MEANS? EVERYTHING will match. Both ends and means. ... And how are you different from Mengele? He also moved science. In the same ways. A volunteer can abandon the experiment if he has already been wheeled into hell knows what? Can I unscrew it back? Mengele also had volunteers who volunteered to defend their homeland, and were unable to refuse the experiment. Doctors of Russia. Inoculating themselves with plague, cholera, in the name of SALVING OTHERS. Only a doctor can objectively examine the symptoms, describe, and try, if you have time, to suggest solutions. This is a FEAT. These are the saints. But do the experiment ON OTHERS. A volunteer can be found at any second. Or you don't need to search. For example, use someone sentenced to death. And there is half a step to any crime. Your mother, you are not a bastard in morality, you mold such monstrous things. There are moral barriers that YOU CANNOT cross. Even if there is no legal prohibition on it. Simply because it is taboo. You can't even get close. You have already lost your bearings. Finally.

- You are a "moralist". Can experiments be done on mice? Without asking their consent? On rabbits? On monkeys, "our brothers in mind"?
That's just the coronavirus vaccine is tried exclusively at the beginning on volunteers. - HOW ELSE??
dub0vitsky

-1

23 December 2021 16: 42

Quote: Marzhetsky
secondly, you allow yourself too much. Do not be rude to people.

But in fact, what did I say offensive? What are you, a bad lawyer, a bad journalist? Yes, I think so, and I can talk about it. Will the LAWYER allow such statements, which are clearly contrary to any, our, not our standards of humanity? Would a lawyer hide on his website a laudable letter from a deputy, carefully hiding his signature? An unsigned piece of paper is a toiletry item. And why show it at all? Lack of authority, why? Advertising. Reminiscent of one such page he pointed to. that his diploma is RED.
dub0vitsky

-1

23 December 2021 16: 44

Quote: Marzhetsky
Your mother, you are not a bastard in morality, you mold such monstrous things. There are moral barriers that YOU CANNOT cross. Even if there is no legal prohibition on it. Simply because it is taboo. You can't even get close. You have already lost your bearings. Finally.

What's wrong with you?

And with you? Experimenting on humans? Justify expediency? Yes, for that .....
1. Marzhecki
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 16: 52
  
  What are experiments on humans? What are you talking about?
Marzhecki

0

23 December 2021 16: 53

Quote: dub0vitsky
secondly, you allow yourself too much. Do not be rude to people.

But in fact, what did I say offensive? What are you, a bad lawyer, a bad journalist? Yes, I think so, and I can talk about it. Will the LAWYER allow such statements, which are clearly contrary to any, our, not our standards of humanity? Would a lawyer hide on his website a laudable letter from a deputy, carefully hiding his signature? An unsigned piece of paper is a toiletry item. And why show it at all? Lack of authority, why? Advertising. Reminiscent of one such page he pointed to. that his diploma is RED.

What is this delusional stream of consciousness?
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 17: 03

Quote: Alexey Davydov
If we don't save this wonderful world of ours

It is extremely rare that a thought flashes, bright, simple and understandable. But there are a lot of plans, the desire to destroy to the ground, and then .... instilled by some, and the desire to earn money, in any way, grafted by others, suppresses the reasonable, the good. eternal. NATURE is intelligent. She doesn't make copies. A copy cannot create anything new. Before it already .... And matter, energy, time to create a copy are spent. She perfects EVERYTHING, obeying not the chaos of chances, but the LAW. And therefore, she does not allow to remake what has already been created for her. For terraforming is the destruction of the only one, and an attempt to copy the unsuccessful one. Can anything that has been ruined by one's own hand be called successful? maybe we will change our minds and become closer to the laws of NATURE? And, precisely for this reason, an obstacle has been created to exchange, meetings of different civilizations. Because this would mean the death of the less developed. Not because the strong will devour the weak. Because the weak will use the technologies of the strong. And your own path of development will perish. Isn't this copying?
1. zenion
  
  0
  
  23 December 2021 17: 08
  
  People were disunited due to the construction of a tower to the sky. For they will build a tower to the sky and become like us. Who we are is a cosmic mystery. And god mixed tongues and shaken brains.
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 17: 17

Quote: zenion
People were disunited due to the construction of a tower to the sky. For they will build a tower to the sky and become like us. Who we are is a cosmic mystery. And god mixed tongues and shaken brains.

Like that. But there is another version. Dissociation is a way to deprive a person of the opportunity to reach the level of the Creator. Some still feel itch, and they try to get on the same level. Change a person. Change the planet. Change space. If it is impossible to change yourself, just habits, then how can you talk about changing the NATURE of a person? You cannot change what you have no idea about. How can you study yourself while in yourself? The car cannot learn itself. It can do OUTSIDE another. For example, a person. A person can only be studied OUTSIDE, another. but of course. not a human. A being of another, higher level. And, if a person does not know that he is himself. then what kind of artificial intelligence can we talk about?
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 17: 23

Quote: Marzhetsky
What are experiments on humans? What are you talking about?

Remind me, who here spoke about the Lunans, not similar to the Venusians, the Martians?
Joke.

Two of her friends were getting ready to see old Rose. The son, getting ready for the meeting, helped his mother, left the treats in the kitchen, boiled tea, wrote a note - "Offer some tea. Here are cakes, here are sweets ..." and left on business so as not to interfere. Rosa goes to the kitchen, reads: ...... She treats her to tea. They sit and talk. Rose goes to the kitchen. reads ..... Sitting talking. The guests were getting ready to go home. On the staircase one- "Something Rose became so stingy, she didn't even treat her to tea." - "And who is Rose" asks another.

So which one are you?
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 17: 25

Quote: Michael1950
Of course, modification of the human genome is possible.

Are you already modified? Congratulations.
The comment was deleted.
The comment was deleted.
dub0vitsky

0

23 December 2021 19: 49

Quote: shiva
Eh, try to make love at least once with low gravity - there is room for imagination! The Kamasutra is resting ..

You are wrong. You will fly under the ceiling of this dome all the time. Gravity is weak.
Blast

0

24 December 2021 10: 07

There is no point in making settlements, even on Mars, even on the Moon ... except for a small scientific station. But there are also so many difficulties in its content that it is not clear why ... There are enough robots with artificial intelligence for research, which is actually being done. It is in this direction that astronautics will develop for the next hundred years.
Alexey Davydov

0

1 January 2022 19: 21

Why do we believe in the possibility of our happy life on other planets?
Despite everything. Contrary to the dispassionate data of science.
In our soul, which does not heed the arguments of reason, there are captivating worlds created by dreamer artists. Bradbury, Strugatsky and many others settled them in us, when our children's minds had not yet acquired a reliable autonomous source of their own opinions.
A gaze directed into the stellar abyss, frozen in immutability, reveals the true nature of the Cosmos in our consciousness. It was precisely this immutability that was the main goal of the search for an emerging consciousness in the continuously changing world around a person.
Consciousness has found this “hole” in the tissue of the living world, so that it can calmly make logical constructions, erect scaffoldings for the picture of the world, sciences and everything else that claims to be durable.
This “hole” is terribly empty and lifeless by its nature, and only the fantasies of artists, like tulle curtains, impose their intricate, homely pattern on it.
The real essence of this terrible, lifeless emptiness is perhaps best revealed by Alfonso Cuaron's film "Gravity", which, in fact, was made for the sake of this non-standard undertaking.
Crunch

+1

1 January 2022 22: 10

Quote: Michael1950
There will definitely not be a Venusian man - you did not take into account two more factors that make the terraforming of Venus meaningless: it "lies on its side" and rotates around its axis too slowly.

The planet "lying on its side" is heated by the side constantly facing the Sun very well, and from the opposite, never illuminated, it is comparatively VERY cold there. It follows that, given the density of the atmosphere, in order to equalize the temperature (there seems to be no water there) which does the same on Earth, hurricanes follow constantly and with sound (under those conditions) speeds.
1. Vladimir Maslennikov
  
  0
  
  12 January 2022 09: 03
  
  Lying on its side "the planet is heated by the side constantly facing the Sun very well, and from the opposite, never illuminated, it is relatively VERY cold there. It follows that, given the density of the atmosphere, to equalize the temperature, (water))))) ... ..
  
  In general, Venus does not lie on its side, the angle to the orbit is similar to the earth, only its north is 180 degrees inverted and the axis tilt is 3 degrees from the vertical counterclockwise, where the earth is rotated by 67 degrees or 23 degrees
isofat

0

2 January 2022 01: 07

When I am far enough away from the Wi-Fi distribution source, the Internet disappears.
How did the brains of American astronauts withstand when they left the electromagnetic field of the Earth, the cradle of humanity, without losing anything?

What will happen in this case with human consciousness is not known to science today. Study.

It is very likely that consciousness uses an electromagnetic "cloud" in its work. I don’t believe that nature has not matured to modern cloud technologies; rather, on the contrary, we are stupid. Especially those who live in the United States.

PS Vernadsky also spoke about the biosphere.
Vladimir Maslennikov

0

12 January 2022 08: 47

(((There is no magnetic field on the Moon either. Today it is a huge problem. Moreover, there is no air and water. You can dream. It is hardly feasible in our time.))) There is no magnetic field, not only on the moon - it is not and on Mars, but not only is it important - the main thing is that there is no gravity needed by a person. , gradual degradation of the body - bones, blood vessels, immunity, even if they come up with oxygen. But this is not all - food - plants will not survive, even in a crater or underground - temperatures - minus and lack of biohumus - soil medium for assimilation of organic matter by the roots The whole idea with Mars and the moon - a ferry for settlement - stay on the moon and back