How the "mosquito" fleet of Ukraine can lock up the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation in ports

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Few things today cause as much ridicule in Russia as the state of the Ukrainian navy, which has de facto turned into a "mosquito" one. After the loss of Crimea and the final collapse of the shipbuilding industry, the Naval Forces of Ukraine relied on small boats - patrol boats and armored boats, as well as on corvettes of the Turkish project. Comparing them in performance characteristics with the ships of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation can cause an ironic grin, but there is nothing funny. Even with seemingly insignificant naval forces, Ukraine can create colossal problems for Russia, and here's why.

Provocations


First, I must say a few words about the foreign boats that the Naval Forces received. In 2018, the United States transferred the first two Island-class boats to Kiev, named WPB-1321 Cushing and WPB-1323 Drummond. They have a total displacement of 169 tons, carry one 25-mm artillery mount Mk. 38 and four machine guns. It would seem a small force against the Black Sea Fleet. However, the big advantage of the "Islands" is their high speed, amounting to 29,5 knots at maximum speed. This means that the patrol ships of the Russian Coast Guard will simply not be able to keep up with the American boats. How and how to stop them, if the need arises?



Call helicopters or bombers to drop bombs in front of the boats, like in front of the British Defender? And if the captain receives a direct order to go for a breakthrough through the Kerch Strait?

To drown? And if we drown "Island", and if we do not drown, the provocation will be first-class, for which, in fact, the Americans handed them over to the Ukrainians.

Also, in order to create a point of permanent tension, Kiev began to build a new naval base in Berdyansk. To equip it, the Pentagon will transfer 16 Mark VI patrol boats to Independent. With a displacement of 65 tons, they have 2 25-mm cannons, 6 machine guns and can optionally be armed with BGM-176B Griffin guided missiles. But their main advantage will be their tremendous speed, which reaches 41 knots. Alas, Russian patrol ships are not rivals at all to these seemingly modest shells. There is not the slightest doubt that the American Mark VIs will be involved in new provocations in the Sea of ​​Azov and in the Kerch Strait.

Sabotage


By the way, not only the United States, but also the United Kingdom is ready to help in strengthening the Naval Forces of Ukraine, which will give them 2 decommissioned mine defense ships:

Sandown-class mine defense ships have traveled a long journey of 175 miles in 21 years for Ramsey and 185 miles in 20 years for Blyth, supporting operations in the Middle East, around the UK, or performing NATO duties in Northern waters. Europe and the Mediterranean.

I would like to talk about underwater mines and mine protection separately. In Ochakov, where a new military base is currently being built for the needs of the NATO bloc, there is the 73rd Naval Special Operations Center of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. There are combat swimmers, scouts, specialists in underwater mining and mine clearance. There is evidence that instructors from the United States and the North Atlantic Alliance are actively sharing their knowledge in the field of sabotage activities with Ukrainian officers there. This is all extremely disturbing.

The fact is that there is absolutely no need for the Naval Forces of Ukraine to face the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation in a direct clash. However, Ukraine's small "mosquito fleet" and its submarine saboteurs can create colossal problems for us.

For example, in the event of an armed conflict between Russia and Ukraine, or between Russia and the NATO bloc, Ukrainian speedboats can be used in mining the waters of the Azov and Black Seas, de facto "locking" our ports. Modern underwater mines pose a serious danger, and, alas, the Russian Navy today is experiencing an acute shortage of specialized anti-mine ships and minesweepers to neutralize them.

So, due to the disruption of the program for the construction of base minesweepers of Project 12700 "Alexandrite" due to the refusal of the "French partners" to supply the ordered equipment, and then, due to the low rates of production of power plants for ships, the Black Sea Fleet managed to receive only three such new ships. Other minesweepers were built in the 70s of the last century and are very outdated. But even modern anti-mine ships are not immune from insidious underwater charges, equipped with anti-blast devices, traps and self-liquidators.

The problem could be solved by specialized minesweeping helicopters, which are not directly endangered by an underwater explosion, are highly mobile and trawl twice as fast as ships. However, today they are simply not part of the Russian Navy. During the Soviet period, we had the Mi-14BT, multipurpose amphibious helicopters capable of landing and taking off from water. Mi-14BT could quickly clear the water area, towing the trawl both independently and in tandem with another helicopter.

Alas, all rotorcraft of this type have been removed from service. Interestingly, several Mi-14BT units survived in Poland, Georgia and even Ukraine. Several years ago there was talk of resuming the production of helicopters in Kazan, but things are still there.

The foregoing allows us to conclude that the potential threat to the Black Sea Fleet from the Ukrainian Naval Forces is very underestimated, which may come back to haunt us later.
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108 comments
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  1. +7
    16 December 2021 15: 21
    in the event of an armed conflict between Russia and Ukraine, or between Russia and the NATO bloc, Ukrainian speedboats can be used in mining the waters of the Azov and Black Seas, de facto "locking up" our ports.

    And on what fuel will these boats go, Russian or Belarusian? Maybe, if there were no supplies of Russian fuel from the Union State, then the Donbass ship would not go to the Kerch Strait and the bridge?
    1. +3
      16 December 2021 15: 31
      Business is sacred, but you raised your hand to a sacred hand, the guarantor for such a thing cannot be
      1. -1
        16 December 2021 15: 48
        Yes, I only asked! Can't you ask?
    2. -4
      16 December 2021 15: 38
      Fuel and lubricants are a good product, again for dollars.
    3. +2
      16 December 2021 15: 38
      buy elsewhere then
      1. 0
        16 December 2021 15: 47
        Much more expensive and much less. It is also necessary to buy for agricultural and communal services. It will be expensive for everyone, and NATO will not finance it.
        1. +3
          16 December 2021 15: 56
          What does it matter? These are military expenditures to fight the "aggressor". Nobody will count pennies here.
          1. +1
            16 December 2021 16: 00
            Nice pennies in the millions of dollars! And who will not count, the Germans and other NATO members, whose budget has already been drawn up? Or will bureaucrats allow them to be spent on non-targeted (unplanned) expenses? They'd rather drink this money themselves! Or maybe the States will be generous and flood Ukraine with free fuel and lubricants? Then the Kiev officials will definitely trample on the counter!
            1. +2
              16 December 2021 18: 37
              You shouldn't count on it, I suppose.
        2. +1
          16 December 2021 19: 10
          They will give as much as necessary, on receipt and in installments, of course.
          It will be more expensive if not given. Who will Lukashenka replace the loss of such a market? It is easy to leave, but do not forget that no one will wait there and the vacuum will quickly fill. The Turks, for example, can and will be able to.
          1. +3
            17 December 2021 08: 51
            if the Turks could and were able, they would have replaced long ago))) the Turks generally milk Ukraine under the guise of even better than Europe
            1. -1
              17 December 2021 16: 03
              So far, fuel and lubricants are supplied from Belarus at more convenient prices. If supplies stop or raise prices, then nothing will prevent the same Turks from continuing to "milk" Ukraine by supplying them with the missing goods.
              You want to say that Ukraine now feeds, dresses and boots all of Europe, as they once tried to assert about the USSR. laughing good If Khokhlyat businessmen take out and sell for dollars everything that moves and everything that they manage to grab, this does not mean that someone is "milking" them. hi
              1. +1
                17 December 2021 16: 06
                I want to say that Ukraine would have bought fuels and lubricants from Turkey for a long time if Turkey had surpluses))) Turkey is now very well settled in Ukraine - many contracts go through Turkish firms - the same roads and construction. So the purchase of fuels and lubricants would go like clockwork - but Turkey has no opportunity to supply fuels and lubricants, no matter how anyone would like it))))
    4. +2
      16 December 2021 17: 42
      For such an occasion, Western friends will toss them a couple of barrels of fuel.
    5. 0
      17 December 2021 15: 09
      Strange, but from mosquitoes, even bears give dyora!
    6. +1
      17 December 2021 23: 19
      It's not about the fuel. Mining is an act of war. Can they mine? Yes. But who said that after that, in general, someone or something will remain from their bases? Can? Yes.
    7. +2
      18 December 2021 11: 55
      Of course, supplies of fuels and lubricants, regardless of their profitability to certain persons, will be terminated. But the reserves will last for months. It will be problems for ordinary citizens, and the army and navy will easily hold out for a couple of months if Russia does not destroy the fuel and lubricants depots.

      But Mr. Marzhetsky regularly runs into strange and illogical extremes. There is no point in chasing boats and motor boats. If they start laying mines, it's war! And in war it makes no sense to catch up, they destroy there! The main thing is to understand - there is a line until it is crossed, while it is peacetime, but you can try, without using a weapon, but violating the established irrigation regime, to pass it. This is a scandal, a provocation, call it what you want! But the first use of weapons is everything! After that, the speed of the crankcase is not important, the plane and missiles are an order of magnitude faster! Nobody else will catch up! The Black Sea is being shot through from the Crimea! All goals become legitimate after a region or state is declared at war!
  2. -7
    16 December 2021 15: 25
    The Sea of ​​Azov, with an average depth of 7 meters, and with muddy water, is an ideal place for minefields with bottom non-contact
    mines. Antenna, the most primitive and cheapest. Some of the Kriegsmarines were locked by the KBF in the Marquis puddle. The Naval Forces of Ukraine can plant mines from the simplest floating craft, moreover, made of wood.
    With the PMO in the Russian Navy, the situation is unsatisfactory.
    1. +2
      16 December 2021 19: 28
      The Naval Forces of Ukraine can plant mines from the simplest floating craft, moreover, made of wood.

      Are you serious?
      I would like, at least in general terms, an explanation, how do you imagine this process for yourself ?? belay
      1. -6
        16 December 2021 20: 26
        It was with the use of such floating craft that Soviet miners disrupted individual landing operations of the UN troops. The Iraqi miners did the same in 1991.

        I would like, at least in general terms, an explanation, how do you imagine this process for yourself?

        Wooden disposable oak trees will be cut off. The mines in the first stage of readiness will be delivered directly to the oak trees, where they will be finally prepared for mine crews. After the final preparation is completed, the oak trees are taken in tow and towed to the marked lines of the minefield. The accuracy of setting the lines is provided by GPS receivers. C Arriving at the points, the oak trees are freed from the tug and are drowned one by one at the designated coordinates. This is how the German miners put bottom mines in the Marquis puddle, but then there was no GPS. On the fairways of Soviet submariners of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet. Only the Germans put mines in the winter, on wooden sledges. They drowned them. along with thoughts. If we proceed from the schedule D minus 7, then you can set a couple of lines. Or two extensive mine banks. D - the beginning of hostilities. 7 - a week before the start. The military units will be the first to start hostilities, followed by the initiative, so they can calculate more accurately mine laying schedule.
        1. +2
          16 December 2021 21: 19
          oak trees are taken in tow and towed to the designated minefield lines.

          If we proceed from the schedule D minus 7, then you can set a couple of lines. Or two extensive mine banks. D - the beginning of hostilities. 7 - a week before the start. The military forces will be the first to start hostilities, followed by the initiative, so they can calculate the schedule of mine laying more accurately.

          Oaks along with their carriers will be tied at the moment of crossing the territorial waters of Russia.
          smile

          In neutral waters, they can start to shit even tomorrow, the business of technical means of reconnaissance is to detect, identify and designate the area of ​​suspicious activity.
          When in D-6 these mines begin to undermine peaceful neutrals, we will have something to present to the "world community."

          PS The water area adjacent to our borders in the region of the Azov and Black Seas is now tightly controlled and such partisanism will not work.
          1. -5
            16 December 2021 22: 01
            Oaks along with their carriers will be tied at the moment of crossing the territorial waters of Russia.

            There is no need to enter Russian territorial waters.

            In neutral waters, they can start to shit even tomorrow, the business of technical means of reconnaissance is to detect, identify and designate the area of ​​suspicious activity.
            When in D-6 these mines begin to undermine peaceful neutrals, we will have something to present to the "world community."

            Until hostilities began, the waters were international, not neutral. Peaceful neutrals in the overwhelming majority of barges in Turkey, Bulgaria, NATO countries. Their crews
            You will notify ahead of time. You do not patrol international waters from helicopters non-stop. And while conducting such a patrol, you will not find anything suspicious at night.

            The water area adjacent to our borders in the region of the Azov and Black Seas is now tightly controlled and such partisanism will not work.

            This is before the first cry in the night. For mine installations, the Ukrainian Navy can also attract fishermen who wander wherever they get.
            1. 0
              17 December 2021 21: 35
              This is before the first cry in the night. For mine installations, the Ukrainian Navy can also attract fishermen who wander wherever they get.

              You will also remember the Black Sea dolphins.
              Not serious, but you can try. smile
              1. -5
                17 December 2021 21: 45
                Sea mines are the cheapest, most reliable, effective weapon. With a one-year stay in readiness. You can set the multiplicity, the elimination period from one day to a year. And they require the most primitive means of delivery. They are easily transferred from the first stage of readiness to the second, to the third degree of readiness. For storage does not require nitrogen, just a handful of silica gel. Hydrology of the Sea of ​​Azva, shallow depths will allow the use of a wide range of bottom mines. to deal with mine danger and non-hazardous methods. But in the PMO of the Russian Navy, there are no breakers, all types of destroyers for a long time. And the small naval aviation will not be able to bomb the FAB.
                1. +2
                  17 December 2021 23: 31
                  For your information: mining is an act of war. Deconfiguring miner bases, etc. feasible without leaving the bays. After the complete destruction of the enemy, it will be possible, without haste, to de-mine. If something starts spinning, on a large scale, then the khan will be everyone who has a worse missile defense system.
                  1. -4
                    18 December 2021 09: 58
                    For your information: mining is an act of war. Deconfiguring miner bases, etc. feasible without leaving the bays.

                    The fact of laying mines still needs to be revealed. The commander of the KChF does not have even the minimum forces and means of reconnaissance for peacetime. The N KChF has only one modern reconnaissance ship, and there is no reconnaissance aircraft at all. The recent incident with the Defender raid into Russian territorial waters demonstrated the squalid state of the KChF intelligence and the belated reaction of the KChF headquarters. They even forgot to hang bombs under the wings of the Su-24M, in the confusion, and the intelligence of the KChF will not be able to establish the fact of mine laying, especially in the autumn-winter period.
                    1. +2
                      26 December 2021 00: 51
                      And how do you know what the commander of the KChF has and what is not? Why are you always carrying some kind of crap? Well, share with us, where did you get this information?
                2. +1
                  17 December 2021 23: 43
                  Hydrology of the Sea of ​​Azva, shallow depths will allow the use of a wide range of bottom mines.

                  It remains to be seen who you are going to use the "broad spectrum" against ??

                  There, from warships, nothing larger than the boats of the FSB of Russia does not go.

                  Whom are you going to drown in the Sea of ​​Azov?
                  1. -3
                    18 December 2021 09: 59
                    The Ukrainian Navy and their puppeteers are going to disrupt shipping.
  3. +6
    16 December 2021 15: 31
    Give up immediately or wait a little?
    1. -1
      16 December 2021 15: 32
      Why give up? You just need to deal with the cause of the disease, and not with its symptoms.
      Well, it would be nice to build enough minesweepers and helicopter minesweepers for the future.
      1. +1
        16 December 2021 23: 52
        It would be nice, of course, but you described some kind of one-sided scenario.
        In the event of the outbreak of hostilities, these ships can be 1) destroyed in ports by aircraft, naval forces, coastal missile systems, and operational tactical missiles.
        2) if someone survived, then there will be a merry hunt of the same forces behind him.
        3) plant mines? In the waters of Russia? Unreal. Plant mines off your coast? Perhaps, but rather useless. They do not have so many mines and ships.
        4) intelligence is likely to reveal all these facts of preparation, execution, etc.
        This is all nonsense. What mines, what a mosquito fleet. With the proper level of service, of course.
        It is a pity that the cruiser is not given to them, that would be funny.
        1. +1
          17 December 2021 08: 01
          The beginning of hostilities with whom? For example, hostilities will begin with the NATO bloc in the Baltic and at the same time with Japan in the Kuril Islands. We will not talk about nonsense, like a nuclear strike on Tokyo.
          All forces and resources are diverted to those directions. And here in the Black Sea there are Ukrainian boats, which supposedly carry out peaceful patrols. At the same time, we are not officially at war with them. So right away and will we drown? Proactively?
          So answer your own questions, whether our intelligence will be able to control all this, whether the Naval Forces have enough mines that NATO can plant them for such a case, and who will hunt whom.

          to lay mines? In the waters of Russia? Unreal. Plant mines off your coast?

          Nothing prevented the destroyer "Defender" from walking in our territorial waters of Crimea. Forgot. Along the way, by the way, he could have put mines. American high-speed boats, issuing 41 knots, can also manage to carry out mine laying.

          In real life, our Black Sea Fleet can be locked up for a while, preventing it from leaving the base. And there they can also use anti-ship missiles for aviation. This is me already talking about the NATO bloc.
          That is, ukroflot can work as a kamikaze, but more is not required of it.
          1. 0
            17 December 2021 08: 54
            if you mean the war between Russia and NATO, then there will be no talk of any defenders and boats))) There will be another war and mine deliveries in it will not make any sense)
            if you mean the war between Russia and Ukraine, then the mrii that American or French soldiers will die for Svidomo Donbass is very important for us)))
          2. 0
            17 December 2021 10: 31
            I meant the conflict with Ukraine.
            The blow can be inflicted preemptively, but it’s not true, of course.
            Even if they manage to put some kind of mine, it will not be significant.
            The defender entered the territorial waters very far from the coast. There, mines will be vryatli effective.
            Ukroflot may of course be a kamikaze, but in my opinion this is too ... very unlikely.
          3. +1
            17 December 2021 18: 24
            If we start hostilities with NATO and Japan at the same time, then without the use of nuclear weapons, the existence of our country will be a big question. And no one will pay attention to the questions of mining the coast. The power of our surface fleet is such that it will cease to exist in the next half hour after going to sea. Yes, and with the submarine fleet there are a lot of problems that, in order to voice them, require writing a huge article. In reality, he, too, is not in danger of longevity. NATO's resources with Japan are not comparable to those of Russia. It is only on the Zvezda TV channel that we bring everyone down with one left hand and we all have no analogs in the world. And if there is a conflict only with Dill, then within a few days all ports 404 will cease to exist and Russian tanks will be on the berths. The role of the fleet in the conflict will be secondary.
            1. 0
              17 December 2021 20: 53
              and who said that the war with NATO will be without nuclear weapons?) It's only NATO and the Ukrainians hope for the opposite))))
  4. +4
    16 December 2021 16: 44
    When attempting a provocative breakthrough, it is not necessary to sink high-speed banderokers, it is not enough, in one or another "remote way" (it is not necessary to "pile on board" every time! ...
    And I would, in general, "non-lethally", sketch out along the course of floating (a little submerged in the water, at half the draft of boats) nets made of durable polymer cords, so that they would be wound around the propellers and voila ...
    The main thing is to immediately, when catching the violators, to document and photograph the state (presence and "preserve") of the floating toilet bowls of the Ukrainian Navy!
    After all (as it unexpectedly turned out), "push" is the most important "naval" equipment, a kind of w / Bandera totem (breaking the toilet = breaking the will to resist ?!) ?! winked
  5. +2
    16 December 2021 17: 33
    Project 14230 Sokzhoy patrol boats were designed by OJSC Central Design Bureau for SEC im. R. E. Alekseeva "and are being built at JSC" Shipyard Volga "(Nizhny Novgorod).
    When the sea is rough with a wave height of up to 0,5 m and a wind of up to 5 m / s, the boat can reach a speed of up to 50 knots, and in a sea state of 3 points, it develops a speed of 25-35 knots. Safe sailing is possible with a sea state of up to 6 points.
    The main performance characteristics of the patrol boat pr. 14230 "Sokzhoy":
    Length, m: maximum - 35,2 m, waterline - 30;
    Width, m: 8;
    Draft, m: 1,92 - 2,04;
    Displacement, t: standard - 91,2, full 99,7;
    Power plant: diesel, two-shaft, two M-533 diesel engines (10000 hp);
    Speed, knots: maximum - 50, cruising - 30;
    Cruising range, miles: 800 (at a speed of 25-30 knots)
    Armament: 1 x 6 30-mm gun mount AK-306;
    Crew, pers .: 12-16;
    Swimming autonomy, days: 5

    I would install Pantsir-SM instead of AK-306, as it is more versatile.
    1. -4
      16 December 2021 18: 41
      We will have to recalculate the weight distribution of the boat. It will be a new ship, taking into account the storage location of the ammunition, the irrigation system and other things.
      1. 0
        18 December 2021 10: 18
        Then you can simply add the Hermes complex: a pair of inclined launchers in the stern of Sokjoy. It will be possible to cover any targets at a distance of up to 100 km.
        1. -3
          18 December 2021 10: 28
          The earth is round. The radar detection range at low elevation angles is no further than 60 km. The RCC Harpoon is on a low trajectory, about 5-8 meters. The LA will also attack the ship from a low altitude. The most effective air defense is at the connection of ships. They will be able to cover all directions. One ship will not repel 4-6 anti-ship missiles or 3-4 aircraft of carriers of anti-ship missiles, bombs. Hermes has a range of 20 km. Very limited. BLA or aircraft may not enter the Hermes zone to launch ammunition.
  6. -3
    16 December 2021 18: 01
    drones will cover these boats, like birds will simply peck at these mosquitoes
    one must keep up with the times, and not engage in "all-prophecy"
    1. -2
      16 December 2021 18: 34
      And who is engaged in the omnipresence?
    2. -4
      16 December 2021 18: 42
      What kind of drones? The ones in the pictures?
      1. 0
        16 December 2021 21: 11
        Why are they in the pictures in Syria, they roll around and seem to speak well
        1. -6
          16 December 2021 21: 49
          And how did they drive in the former Syria? Soldiers in the trenches, the floor with tanks.
  7. 0
    16 December 2021 19: 21
    in the event of an armed conflict between Russia and Ukraine, or between Russia and the NATO bloc, Ukrainian speedboats can be used in mining the waters of the Azov and Black Seas,

    They cannot, they are simply not adapted for mine laying.
    1. -5
      16 December 2021 21: 55
      Bottom mines can be placed easily.
      1. +4
        16 December 2021 22: 23
        Bottom mines can be placed easily.

        Exclusively in their mriyas.
        Do not frighten the hedgehog (controlling the sea area) with a naked Ukrainian ass.

        More ..
        Did you see those mines?

        Allegedly, one Ukrainian plant re-equipped the UDM-E and AMD-1000.
        Ancient, sample of the middle (and a little later) of the last century.
        How much and what is unknown.

        Where do we start to be afraid?
        1. 0
          17 December 2021 07: 48
          For such a case, the United States will provide its mines, do not hesitate
          1. 0
            17 December 2021 21: 45
            For such a case, the United States will provide its mines, do not hesitate

            Perhaps the old junk needs to be put somewhere.
            However, such things are not done right off the bat.
            It is a long and dreary affair, carried out through Congress and the Senate.
            And something tells me, they will repeat the fate of the javelins.
            It seems that Ukraine has it, but very far from the front ..
        2. -3
          17 December 2021 09: 18
          Even the mines of the 1905 model are still effective. They were removed from storage only at the end of the 80s of the last century. The Russian Navy is in trouble with minesweepers of all classes. The mines that are needed will be planted by senior partners.
          1. +1
            17 December 2021 23: 14
            Even the mines of the 1905 model are still effective.

            The last hope of the Ukrainian Navy?
            There is no desire to comment on the statements of the rapidly degrading Papuans, who once built aircraft-carrying cruisers.
            1. -3
              18 December 2021 09: 46
              There is no possibility for the Navy's Main Command and the Commander of the KChF to organize a competent PMO with the available modest resources.
  8. +2
    16 December 2021 19: 29
    It's easy. They will act, the Kremlin will run to complain to the OSCE, PACE, EP, EC, Pope and Biden.
  9. +1
    16 December 2021 20: 12
    I am a categorical opponent of shapkozakidatelny moods, whoever acts as a potential enemy, but in this case it is ridiculous (if not to say stupid) to assert that the so-called. the mosquito fleet can do something significant in the event of hostilities. Except to be killed with a running start on the Crimean rocks. Will the Black Sea Fleet really be sad to watch as it is being mined around the perimeter or to race with boats - there are appropriate means and weapons to combat this. And provocations can be committed even on inflatable boats.
    1. -1
      17 December 2021 07: 53
      How do you know if they are mining something or are just conducting reconnaissance and patrolling? Are you going to drown right away?
      And if the conflict is not with Ukraine, but with NATO? That is, we are not at war with Ukraine. Also sink the Ukrainian fleet, which is doing something there?
      1. 0
        17 December 2021 08: 56
        if there is a conflict with your NATO, then neither Russia nor NATO will need mine laying at all))) I look at you everywhere about the conflict with NATO - you just think that NATO soldiers will die for Svidomo's dream)))
    2. -4
      17 December 2021 09: 22
      Will the Black Sea Fleet really be sad to watch as it is being mined around the perimeter or to race with boats - there are appropriate means and weapons to combat this. And provocations can be committed even on inflatable boats.

      The raid of the British Defender on the terrorists of Russia, near the Crimea, revealed many shortcomings in the combat readiness of the KChF, in its combat control. In peacetime, no one, no one will sink. Especially in international waters. The most primitive floating craft are enough to lay mines. For this, mines and They are valued for their low cost, massive use, for a long period, up to a year, for combat readiness.
      1. 0
        17 December 2021 20: 55
        Raid of the British Defender on the terrorists of Russia?))) Do you really believe that your defender raid there, Selyuk?))) The fact that he went 20 km and immediately dumped, dropping his slippers - this is not a raid - this is an escape after an unsuccessful attempt at provocation ... Although you were probably presented with this in Ukraine that the defender almost came to Sevastopol)))
  10. 0
    16 December 2021 21: 05
    You can be afraid, you can not be afraid, but you must agree that even a monkey with a grenade can do a lot of troubles. Yes, ukroflot can kill a lot of Russian guys and men. It is a fact.
    There is only one solution to almost all foreign policy problems. Show yourself a power, even an empire. They will pump even harder. And this chance, maybe the last one before the crash - New Russia! Cut Ukraine off from the sea now and you are a winner for many years, always and everywhere.
    1. +1
      17 December 2021 07: 51
      Yes maybe. It can create many problems, although it is obvious that the Ukrainian Navy will support the kamikaze and for them it will not end well.
  11. 0
    16 December 2021 21: 07
    Well, all the Marzhetsky burial service of the Black Sea Fleet. Well, remind me how the collision of the Georgian boats with the Black Sea Fleet ended. Two drowned men are correct. Although they were smaller and slower, the rocket flies faster than 50 knots. And even better, if a fight cannot be avoided, hit first. I think a couple of calibers will be enough for irreparable damage to the base. smile
    1. -6
      16 December 2021 21: 54
      This collision ended with the defeat of the Moldovan barge with a missile launched from the RK Molniya. Dieselukha B-871, sent for reconnaissance, lost speed. She was able to maneuver only with small moves. Accompanied by a tug, I came to the base. The Black Sea Marine Brigade was never able to bring the number one on alert. And she did not arrive at the landing point on the landing ships. Instead of the marines of the Black Sea people, the NGSH had to attract the Ulyanovsk paratroopers.
      1. 0
        16 December 2021 22: 48
        This collision ended with the defeat of a Moldovan barge by a missile launched from the Republic of Kazakhstan Molniya. Dieselukha B-871, sent to reconnaissance, lost its passage. She was able to maneuver only with small moves. Accompanied by a tug, she came to the base. The Black Sea brigade of marines was never able to bring into combat. readiness number one. And did not arrive at the landing point on the landing ships. Instead of the Black Sea marines, the NGSH had to attract the Ulyanovsk paratroopers.

        The Georgian fleet was already celebrating victory, but then the Russians appeared on the pier. smile

        1. -3
          17 December 2021 09: 23
          You confused Babel with Bebel. Georgian boats were destroyed by the Ulyanovsk paratroopers at the berths. In view of the complete impotence of the KChF.
          1. +1
            17 December 2021 23: 32
            You confused Babel with Bebel. Georgian boats were destroyed by the Ulyanovsk paratroopers at the berths. In view of the complete impotence of the KChF.

            Um.
            If the Georgian fleet can be destroyed cheaply and angrily (right at the pier), why waste the service life of ship engines?

            PS After that war, certain conclusions were drawn.
            1. -3
              18 December 2021 10: 06
              The marines of the KChF could not bring themselves to an increased level of readiness in a few days, and make a march to the landing point on the landing ships. Instead, the NGSH of the Russian Armed Forces had to mobilize reliable guards from the Ulnovtsy. Read the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper about these events.

              PS After that war, certain conclusions were drawn.

              The matter did not go further than discussions at meetings and at scientific and practical discussions in the specialized VUNC of the Ministry of Defense of Russia.
      2. +1
        16 December 2021 23: 27
        It seems to me that you are misinterpreting the history of the war 08.08.08
        1. -5
          17 December 2021 09: 43
          I list the facts. There are enough interpreters without me. The Georgians blew out the smoke of eyewash about the combat readiness of the Southern Military District and the 58th Army, the KChF.
          1. +3
            17 December 2021 09: 55
            You have not listed the facts. Facts can be listed by those who are in the subject. 13-14 years have passed. The entire course of hostilities is scheduled almost by the minute. The bottom line is that the Russian Army blew off the smoke and eyewash about the combat readiness of the armies trained by Western instructors.

            Just one moment - the 810th Marine Brigade was not supposed to be involved in hostilities. Initially, two BTGs of the 7th Air Assault Division (Novorossiysk) were involved in the landing operation. One BTG of the 76th Airborne Division (Pskov) was involved in the ground operation. But according to the exercises of 2006, 2007 and 2008, it was ALWAYS 1 BTG from this division that was involved.
            The most interesting thing in your writings is that starting with the fact that you are a major expert in military affairs, with almost every post you will debunk this myth. There are no facts in your unfounded statements.
            1. -5
              17 December 2021 10: 15
              The facts are: Makarov drove the long-term idler of the chief of the GRU, Korabelnikov, into retirement, since Korabelnikov gave false information about the plans and intentions of the Georgian military leaders. used by the Georgians in shelling. It was not opened by Georgian air defense scouts. Tu-58R, several Su-22s were shot down, including Captain Kobylash, the future deputy of the VKS Civil Command for Long-Range Aviation. MANPADS one Su-25 of the Georgian Air Force. At a rate of 8-10. The commander of the 25th Army, together with the headquarters, narrowly escaped captivity. The mortally wounded Major Vetchinov saved them with a burst of machine-gun fire. They contrived not to bother with the combat escort. That was what the Georgian DRGs took advantage of.

              Just one moment - the 810th Marine Brigade was not supposed to be involved in hostilities.

              A lie. Read the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda in those days. The newspaper clearly wrote that the Ulyanovskites were thrown into battle urgently, in an emergency.

              But according to the exercises of 2006, 2007 and 2008, it was ALWAYS 1 BTG from this division that was involved.

              Fighting with the Georgians did not go straight away from the experience of the exercises, which is quite normal.

              The most interesting thing in your writings is that starting with the fact that you are a major expert in military affairs, with almost every post you will debunk this myth.

              The facts are in the studio, where I would have certified myself in this capacity.
              1. +3
                17 December 2021 10: 36
                I will ask you not what the newspaper wrote, but the facts. I think that apart from rumors, you will not present anything. Only newspaper clippings.
                What are the losses of the Russian Air Force? How many were shot down by Georgian air defenses? The problem of interaction between aviation and infantry was then described by military specialists.

                About General Khrulev. Of course, the commander was not supposed to be in the front lines. But the situation was critical. Many wrote that Khrulev threw a battalion of the 135th regiment into a meat grinder. But the reality was that the peacekeeping battalion was no longer able to resist. And Khrulev's battalion group was not ambushed by the RDG. Khrulev was wounded as a result of a clash in Tskhinvali itself. For the Georgian reconnaissance company of the 2nd infantry brigade, this meeting was also unexpected. There was a counter battle. The Georgian reconnaissance company suffered losses and withdrew from the battle. The Russian convoy continued to move towards the peacekeepers' camp.
                1. -3
                  17 December 2021 11: 55
                  In this case, Krasnaya Zvezda covered the facts. With Khrulev, the situation turned critical due to the lack of reliable information at the operational-tactical level at his disposal. If the Georgians had not hesitated to blow up the Roki tunnel, the results of that war would not have been in favor of the Russian side.

                  For the Georgian reconnaissance company of the 2nd infantry brigade, this meeting was also unexpected.

                  The reconnaissance company did not move along a random route.

                  The Russian convoy continued to move towards the peacekeepers' camp

                  Pretty shabby, with household mobile phones as the main means of communication.

                  The problem of interaction between aviation and infantry was then described by military experts

                  Problems with communication between motorized riflemen and crews, the command of air units. Problems with mutual identification. Aviation in itself, motorized rifles in themselves. Losses of the Russian Air Force, losses in armored vehicles and manpower are known. The scantiness of the Georgian group. The factor of low moral quality of the Georgian command staff of all categories played in favor of the Russian military. The subordinates were looking for Sedyukov for a long time, found under the bunk of his cohabitant Zhenya Vasilyeva. August 8, 2008 found the Main Operations Directorate and the Main Organizational and Mobilization Directorate in the literal sense words - on the street ... On this day, following the strictest directive of the Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov, the departments were engaged in the move. A dozen KamAZ trucks lined up at the entrances, and they loaded the property of the two main directorates of the General Staff packed in boxes and bundles. The news that Georgia had launched a military operation against South Ossetia, many officers learned only from the morning news broadcasts. By this time, the warning system, which had been functioning without interruption for more than forty years, was dismantled. There were simply no officers on duty in the departments and services, since there was nowhere to be on duty. There was no one to alert the officers. Therefore, there could be no talk of any officers' arrival on alarm and the immediate "inclusion" of a GOU or GOMU in the situation. There was no one to join and nowhere.
                  1. +1
                    17 December 2021 15: 06
                    Nonsense. The order to advance was issued within one hour. 30 minutes after the start of the shelling, the General Staff gave the command to move. The first two BTGs passed the Roki tunnel already at 03:00. In case the tunnel was blown up, a mountain brigade was deployed. Don't know the factual material.
                2. -2
                  17 December 2021 11: 57
                  At the same time, the GOU itself has been without leadership for two months. The former head of the GOU, Colonel-General Alexander Rukshin, was fired in early June for disagreeing with Anatoly Serdyukov's plans for a sharp reduction in the General Staff. Serdyukov, the head of the General Staff, and Makarov, the head of the General Staff, had no time to find a new chief of the state educational institution during this time. The acting head of the GOU, First Deputy Rukshin, Lieutenant General Valery Zaparenko, was forced to combine several positions in one person, which could not but affect the state of affairs in the GOU.
                  All this was aggravated by the fact that by this moment the GOU and GOMU were completely cut off from the troops. In the premises cleared for repairs, not only the entire ZAS communication, but even the usual "Erovsky" communication was already disconnected, and in the new building it was simply not carried out yet. As a result, at the most dramatic moment of the Tskhinvali drama, the General Staff of Russia almost lost control of the troops.
                  At the same time, even during the evening report, the Minister of Defense Serdyukov was informed about the growing threat of war and permission was requested to delay the move of the GOU until the situation was defused, in response to which a regal roar and a tough order fell upon the generals: “Here I decide when the war will be ! Move! ”Therefore, it was necessary to deploy combat work on wheels. As a means of communication with the troops, several ordinary telephones of open long-distance communication were used in those few offices that were designated for the temporary placement of ministerial advisers. But most of all, ordinary "mobile phones" came to the rescue, from which officers and generals negotiated with colleagues from the North Caucasus Military District for their own money. This is what subsequently gave foreign intelligence services a huge scope for intercepting and analyzing our actions, but then, as they say, there was no time for fat ...
                  The working groups were deployed in any more or less suitable premises of the former headquarters of the Joint Warsaw Pact Forces. In dressing rooms, changing rooms, behind the stage, in the gym. One of the directions of the GOU generally turned out to be sitting in the orchestra pit.
                  Only by the end of the second day was it possible to somehow restore command and control of the troops and expand work. But this confusion has caused a lot of human losses and mistakes.
                  So, the new chief of the General Staff, Nikolai Makarov, until the last moment did not dare to give an order to the troops to start a military operation. After the Georgians started the war, the command of the peacekeepers, the duty general of the Central Command Center and the commander of the North Caucasian Military District repeatedly went directly to the chief of the general staff with reports that our peacekeepers were suffering losses, that a city with a civilian population was being destroyed, that immediate assistance and the action of the plans for repelling the aggression available in this case, but the NSG kept pulling it off, continuously “clarifying” from the top political leadership what the scale of the use of force should be, although a political decision had already been made by that time.
                3. -2
                  17 December 2021 11: 59
                  Enlighten. '' The first directive sent to the troops was so limited that it almost immediately required a new one to be added. According to the first directive, the troops entering South Ossetia were virtually left without cover, since the directive concerned only units and formations of the North Caucasus Military District.
                  It was his fault that inconsistency arose between the branches of the armed forces. Having no experience in organizing interspecific interaction at the most crucial moment, the chief of the general staff "forgot" about the Air Force.
                  The directive to the troops of the North Caucasian military circle was gone, and the directive was not sent to the Air Force command. They "remembered" about it only when the troops, having passed the Roki tunnel, were under the blows of the Georgian aviation. And the Air Force had already, as they say, "off the wheels" to enter into the operation. This was one of the reasons for such high losses in aviation.
                  Then, in the same way, they "remembered" about the Airborne Forces and the directive went to the headquarters of the Airborne Forces. This explains the fact that the most mobile troops of the Russian army were actually in the rearguard of this military operation. It is completely incomprehensible why, on the eve of the war, when information was continuously received about the aggravation of the situation around South Ossetia, the leadership of the General Staff did not decide to deploy a central command post. who had every opportunity to control the troops in the conflict area, during the move of two key directorates, but all the time of the war he worked in the usual "duty" mode, engaged only in monitoring the situation, while the GOU and GOMU were actually cut off from the troops?
                  This war showed that the "taste" approach to the selection of the chief of the General Staff - a key figure for command and control of troops in a combat situation - is unacceptable. The excitement of Defense Minister Serdyukov, who poked his finger at the card with a proposal to bomb “this bridge,” is humanly understandable, but it has nothing to do with strategy and operational art, which, in fact, decide the fate of the war. At the most crucial moment, the necessary professionals were not on the spot.
                  At the same time, Mr. Serdyukov very cleverly placed all responsibility for the losses on those whom he himself had put in a catastrophic situation.
                4. -2
                  17 December 2021 12: 01
                  We won because in the chaos of confusion and confusion there were those who took responsibility. Who, in the absence of intelligible and clear instructions from Moscow, decided to start acting according to the plans that had been worked out. First of all, these are the commander of the North Caucasus Military District, a veteran of the Chechen war, Colonel-General Sergei Makarov and the commander of the 58th Army, Lieutenant-General Anatoly Khrulev, who, taking full responsibility, actually saved South Ossetia from genocide, and Russia from shame.
                  But high losses in people - 71 people were killed, equipment - more than 100 units and 8 aircraft - this is the price that the army paid for the voluntarism and tyranny of top officials.
                  One can imagine what a terrible moral defeat a military failure in South Ossetia would have become for Russia. But we escaped it with great difficulty - if we had missed another 2-3 hours and Tskhinvali would have fallen, the Georgians would have cut the Transkam and there would have been no one to save us "
                  1. +2
                    17 December 2021 15: 12
                    I say that the timing of the war is scheduled by the minute. But you don't know him. So educate yourself.
                    You know exactly the mobilization capabilities of all districts, you know by name the leadership team, the technical characteristics of the equipment, you know how to mine the approaches to the ports, the capabilities of the BTG. And you don't know the factual material. And you add that you are not a military man. I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m not a warrior, but I try to work through history and factual material.
                    Based on this, all your writings can be attributed to fiction. Not worthy of attention.
                    1. -4
                      17 December 2021 16: 33
                      I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m not a warrior, but I try to work through history and factual material.

                      This can be seen even without your admission.
                      1. +2
                        17 December 2021 16: 54
                        I'm honest, unlike you. So back to the beginning. You don't know the history of the 08.08.08 war.
                        They are also not competent in military matters.
                      2. -6
                        17 December 2021 17: 42
                        The war 080808 served as a pendel of the Ministry of Defense and the National General Staff for the emergency reform of the Russian Armed Forces. The reforms were largely ill-considered, harmful. Only recently did the Russian ruling group begin to realize that the case smelled of kerosene.
                      3. +3
                        17 December 2021 20: 57
                        what kind of porridge do you have in the pan))) but it's good - you mriy and jump higher)
      3. -1
        16 December 2021 23: 57
        What are you talking about hospadi negative wassat
        1. -3
          17 December 2021 09: 44
          Get it out of your head immediately!
    2. -1
      17 December 2021 07: 50
      Surnames are written with a capital letter. This is the first thing.
      Second. I didn’t sing a song, but pointed out a real problem. And he even pointed out the ways to solve it.
      1. 0
        17 December 2021 08: 44
        Weird. And why are you not serving in the General Staff, but are spreading panic rumors. It is fraught in case you know. In case of something then. laughing
        1. -1
          21 December 2021 13: 23
          OK. But the first to put up to the wall are those who brought the country to the handle. OK?
        2. -1
          21 December 2021 13: 28
          Let's be the first to put those who destroyed the fleet against the wall. And then alarmists. OK?
  12. 0
    17 December 2021 09: 26
    Boats must be sunk by helicopters. Not the hardest goal.
  13. -1
    17 December 2021 10: 19
    Quote: gunnerminer
    ... In peacetime, no one, no one, will drown. Especially in international waters. For setting mines, the most primitive watercraft are enough ...

    First, I wrote about military operations, not peacetime. Secondly, the very fact of laying mines outside their territorial waters, against a specific side, already indicates the beginning of a war. Therefore, it remains only to drown, and to clear mines where they managed to stumble. Laying mines in international waters, by the way, is a completely different article.
    1. -3
      17 December 2021 12: 07
      Mines will be deployed in a threatened period. D-7. A few days before the start of the war. The start time will be determined in Washington. It has an operational initiative in a clearly advantageous position.

      Secondly, the very fact of laying mines outside their territorial waters, against a specific side, already indicates the beginning of a war.

      Try to establish the fact of mine laying; they are carried out as secretly as possible.

      Laying mines in international waters, by the way, is a completely different article.

      What kind of a flock?
      1. 0
        17 December 2021 23: 13
        The Main Command of the Russian Navy has long lost the means and forces for mass events of the PMO

        And where does such confidence come from? Do you serve in the operational management of the Main Command of the Navy?
        1. -3
          18 December 2021 10: 11
          This is known to everyone, even superficially, who is interested in the Russian Navy. I recommend that you carefully watch the report from the naval parades in 2021, read carefully the Morskoy Sbornik magazine, the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper, and the press service of the fleets.
  14. +1
    17 December 2021 11: 05
    Is the Russian Black Sea Fleet already going to surrender to Odessa in full force, or will we still fight?))
    1. 0
      21 December 2021 13: 27
      Are you going to fight with Ukraine? Commander-in-Chief Putin is not going to.
      1. 0
        22 December 2021 11: 59
        The author of this article is going to.
  15. +1
    17 December 2021 14: 30
    Sheer alarmism. Who does he work for?
    1. +1
      17 December 2021 21: 37
      Quote: Yuri Siritsky
      Sheer alarmism. Who does he work for?

      On myself, of course - nonsense - not nonsense, but see how many comments)))
      1. +1
        17 December 2021 23: 14
        So utter nonsense. The people are surprised.
  16. 0
    17 December 2021 18: 57
    The author is immediately visible. It is strange that they did not offer aircraft carriers as a solution to the problem.

    Why chase these boats for the military and even more so for aviation? For this there is the FSB Border Service with its fast boats. In the event of an attack, these ukromoskitami simply have nowhere to return.
    1. 0
      21 December 2021 13: 27
      Why chase the military and especially the aviation for these boats? For this there is the FSB Border Service with its fast boats

      American boats are faster than ours

      The author is immediately visible. It is strange that they did not offer aircraft carriers as a solution to the problem.

      Yeah, we need stratospheric bombers fool
  17. +1
    17 December 2021 23: 10
    1. The author, apparently out of his mental simplicity, believes that mine laying can be carried out in general from any boat (even a patrol boat), even from a scow. A naive youth.
    2.But even, let’s say, if so, three minesweepers are not enough to sweep the water area of ​​the threatening directions of the Sea of ​​Azov? Or are Ukrainian super-boats capable of carpet-laying mines?
    3. And how does the speed of the boat affect the destruction of it with a missile? The speed of the patrol boat is necessary to pursue an intruder. I caught up with such a "fast" one (armed with two machine guns and one small-caliber cannon), for example a frigate, and, damn it, what?
    No, well, the captain can still make an evil face, and then what?
    If the author is a Ukrainian journalist, then of course he can frighten even the entire Russian fleet (this is understandable). Or is the author our dear "bzdunishka"? Otherwise, what is the article about?
    1. -4
      18 December 2021 10: 17
      1. The author, apparently out of his mental simplicity, believes that mine laying can be carried out in general from any boat (even a patrol boat), even from a scow. A naive youth.

      This is the most accessible way of laying mines for the Navy. By such means, German miners destroyed many Red Banner Baltic Fleet submarines during the Second World War, the Red Banner Baltic Fleet headquarters underestimated the resourcefulness of the German miners, relying on the ice cover of the Marquise Puddle. Soviet miners during the Korean War disrupted several landing operations of the UN forces on the Korean Peninsula Using wooden junky boats as a means of delivering and staging the MZM, the KChF commander has at his disposal much more modest reconnaissance and PMO forces to deal with the mine threat.
    2. -1
      21 December 2021 13: 26
      Don't you allow yourself too much?
  18. -3
    18 December 2021 09: 00
    The article says that even in its current state, Ukraine can kill many Russian sailors, and with the arrival of amers and Britons on the shores of the Black and Azov Seas, it will generally be able to kill them with impunity.
    The Kremlin is now afraid of Ukraine, and by the establishment of NATO military bases, it will generally be blown away. Putin and Shoigu will move to Siberia (further away), and they don't care about the rest.
    Great unhappy country.
    1. +1
      19 December 2021 04: 39
      Take pity on yourself