Could Turkey copy the technology of the Russian S-400 air defense system?

The sale to Turkey of the most modern Russian air defense systems S-400 at that time was one of the most discussed. The Kremlin's decision to sell the best domestic anti-aircraft systems to the country, which is part of the anti-Russian military bloc NATO, was received extremely controversially. Now, several years later, the feeling that it was a big mistake is growing stronger.

The S-400 ("Triumph" in the export version) is a long-range anti-aircraft missile system designed to destroy all existing and prospective aerospace attack weapons, including hypersonic ones. The SAM itself can cover the sky within a radius of up to 400 kilometers. At the same time, "Triumph" acts as the control center for the air defense positional area, issuing commands to engage air targets to the integrated elements of the zonal air defense system: S-300PM2, S-300PM1, Tor-M1 and Pantsir-S1. This is a very effective defensive system, because the export price for the S-400 starts at $ 500 million per division. Today, only the United States is capable of creating an air defense system of a similar level. However, in 10-15 years that way, another impudent player, Turkey, can squeeze into this closed club.

Ankara is consistently moving towards the restoration of imperial greatness, but it is not ready to be satisfied with the borders of the former Ottoman Empire. "Sultan" Erdogan is actively climbing into Central and Central Asia, where he has already crossed the road to two other former empires, Persian and Russian, which in the future may lead to direct clashes. Note that the Turks are trying to confirm their ambitions by developing their military-technical potential. Ankara started with a licensed assembly of NATO weapons, participated in cooperative production programs. Turkey is now designing its own national tank, its fifth generation fighter, its heavy attack helicopter, its UDC launched and its first aircraft carrier is planned. Turkish UAVs with "Israeli genes" have already become widely known throughout the world.

Let's turn our attention to the promising Turkish air defense systems. Since 2007, Ankara has been working on its own national air defense system called HİSAR ("Fortress"). This is a whole family of air defense systems, from short to long range.

HİSAR-A (Alçak İrtifa Hava Savunma Füze Sistemi) is a short-range mobile anti-aircraft gun based on a tracked platform. It carries 4 vertical launch missiles capable of hitting flying targets at a distance of 2 to 15 kilometers.

HİSAR-O (Orta İrtifa Hava Savunma Füze Sistemi) is based on the chassis of a Mercedes-Benz Zetros truck. One battery already carries up to 18 anti-aircraft missiles capable of shooting down air targets at a distance of 3 to 25 kilometers, which makes it possible to attribute this air defense system to an average range.

HİSAR-U (Uzun Menzilli Hava Savunma Füze Sistemi, also Siper, "trench") is a Turkish long-range anti-aircraft system, which is based on the chassis of German Turkish-made MAN trucks. According to Ankara, Siper hits air targets at a distance of 30 to 120 kilometers. And now this is already serious.

Yes, the Turkish air defense system is still very far from the "Triumphs". However, according to a number of experts, in terms of tactical and technical characteristics, this is already a very worthy air defense system. It was worked on by specialists from well-known defense corporations Aselsan, Roketsan and Tübitak SAGE, as well as, probably, foreign consultants. Let's pay attention to ambitious statements in the Turkish press, for example, quoted in the newspaper Hurriyet:

The HISAR-U Siper should compete with the Russian S-400 Triumph acquired in 2019.

Serious swing. The creation of large-radius air defense systems requires a serious engineering school, technical base and great practical experience. It is also desirable that there was "someone to spy on" by disassembling a similar air defense system to a screw. The Turks already have a production base, many of their specialists have studied and worked abroad. In addition, Russia itself obligingly sold them its most modern anti-aircraft air defense systems S-400. And now in Turkey they are talking about creating a complete analogue of the Russian air defense system. Coincidence? We don’t think so.

Note that Ankara even tried to legalize the process of borrowing our technologies. The head of the Department of Defense Industry (UOP) of the republic, Ismail Demir, stated the following:

If we wanted, the second set of S-400s would have arrived today, but joint production and technology transfer are important to us.

Moscow refused such a proposal. But let us ask ourselves a question, what can prevent the Turks, even in a simplified form, from copying Russian "know-how"? Suppose the HISAR-U Siper complexes will hit flying targets not at 400 kilometers, but, say, at 200 or 250 kilometers, will this make it easier for us?

Ankara will cover its air borders with nationally produced anti-aircraft missile systems, and then will also enter the international market with them, as happened with the Bayraktar, which crowd out Israeli UAVs with the best price-quality ratio.

So was it worth selling the Russian Triumphs to the Turks?
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  1. greenchelman Offline greenchelman
    greenchelman (Grigory Tarasenko) 15 November 2021 17: 33
    Could Turkey copy the technology of the Russian S-400 air defense system?

    It is difficult to say how the Turks will have, but the Chinese say that they have created their own "Red Banner" (HQ-26) on the basis of the Patriot and the S-400.
  2. volk.bosiy Offline volk.bosiy
    volk.bosiy (Volk Bosiy) 15 November 2021 18: 10
    they will copy something in any way ... this sale will not change anything in our relations for the better ... it has brought confusion in Turkey's relations with the West, but this turbulence will pass .... the situation with China is repeated, apparently we can’t do anything else ...
  3. Face Offline Face
    Face (Alexander Lik) 15 November 2021 20: 01
    Today, only the United States is capable of creating an air defense system of a similar level.

    Can you tell us more about the US counterparts of the Russian layered missile defense / air defense system? This one is not capable of bringing down the ancient Soviet "Scuds"? Or homemade UAVs molded from ... rams and sticks?

    As practice shows, copying is not enough. China is much more technological than Turkey, and still buys Russian aircraft and air defense systems. Something was depicted there, but they continue to buy.
    1. Master Yoda Offline Master Yoda
      Master Yoda (Master Yoda) 16 November 2021 01: 45
      The United States' air defense / missile defense system is different from the Russian one. This leads to a separate voluminous article (or even a cycle), and maybe the author, if you ask him well, will take the trouble to conduct an educational program. In short, then you should be enlightened for NORAD, it is she who is responsible for the defense of the continental United States. The Americans play an important role in air defense / missile defense ships (with Aegis and anti-missiles) and aviation (fighters and AWACS aircraft), there is also a three-level ground component - long-range missile defense silos, Patriot / THAAD systems, NASAMS and Avenger air defense systems.

      Quote: Lick
      This one is not capable of bringing down the ancient Soviet "Scuds"?

      when it was? 30 years ago. Since then water has flown under the bridge - a lot
      1. Face Offline Face
        Face (Alexander Lik) 16 November 2021 08: 29
        when it was? 30 years ago. Since then water has flown under the bridge - a lot

        No, it has literally been in the last two years. The Patriots showed themselves in all their glory.
        Mine-based air defense missiles straight from the 70s, if I'm not mistaken. In order not to get hit by them, you need to fly to the side.
        Of all this American grandeur, only Aegis works. Probably. The Houthis need to fire at a couple of US ships, we'll see.
        1. Master Yoda Offline Master Yoda
          Master Yoda (Master Yoda) 16 November 2021 19: 06
          Mine is a strategic missile defense, an analogue of the domestic "System A". They are both from the 60s, now in Russia they are testing "Nudol", the Yankees are sawing their system (now I can mistakenly give an abbreviation from memory, GDI seems to be)
          In general, it is worth separating missile defense and air defense, although many current complexes are capable of providing missile defense functions, but tactical missile defense (S-300/400, Patriot)
          The main difference between the United States and the USSR / Russia is that ships and aircraft play an important role in their air defense, while in Russia they rely on ground-based air defense systems. Therefore, it would be somewhat incorrect to compare the air defense systems themselves (here the domestic systems will be ahead) and the aviation / naval component (here the leadership is with the United States). But both their and our defense are echeloned, it cannot be otherwise, they are not Khokhlostans all the same)
          1. Face Offline Face
            Face (Alexander Lik) 17 November 2021 19: 35
            I will not argue. Only here is something that the old rackets began to fall frequently on the American bases in the BV. Yes, so often that the penguins and from there will soon be felled.
            Well, they do not have a normal army air defense.
      2. Muhambek Offline Muhambek
        Muhambek (Muhambek) 4 December 2021 08: 36
        But 20 pieces each one Scud even a long time ago is a bit too much)))
      3. Kedrovich Offline Kedrovich
        Kedrovich (Alexa980) 2 January 2022 12: 01
        You've obviously seen enough of Hollywood movies.
  4. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
    steelmaker 15 November 2021 20: 36
    will hit flying targets not at 400 kilometers, but, say, at 200 or 250, will this make it easier for us?

    The question is right. The USSR also began by copying the FAU. Having studied the technology and the principle of work, we created our own. This saves time and money. You cannot throw modern technologies around, even with allies. Remember when our pilot hijacked the plane to Japan? The USSR had to change and redo everything !! I will not believe that the sale of modern weapons does not harm our defenses. China is not going to share its technologies with us, even for money.
    1. Master Yoda Offline Master Yoda
      Master Yoda (Master Yoda) 16 November 2021 01: 51
      Quote: steel maker
      The USSR also began by copying the FAU. Having studied the technology and the principle of work, we created our own ... I will not believe that the sale of modern weapons does not harm our defense

      so the British, having sold the jet engines "Nin" and "Derwent" to the USSR, then bit their elbows with anger. The Union quickly riveted on their base the legendary MiG-15 fighter, which beat British Meteors in the tail and mane in Korea. But without British engines, when would a post-war country be able to make a car of this class?
    2. Muhambek Offline Muhambek
      Muhambek (Muhambek) 4 December 2021 08: 38
      Not just copied, but optimized production. Instead of a bunch of steel grades, they used 9. Hans did not think of it before))
  5. Valery Valeriev Offline Valery Valeriev
    Valery Valeriev (Valery Valeriev) 15 November 2021 21: 01
    Today it is almost impossible to keep your achievements a secret, and for a long time it is generally unthinkable. The option is called "export" because the seller is sure the buyer will be curious. If we are guided by the conclusions of the Reporter Insaids, then in general it is necessary to stop the arms trade. However, such an idea may come to mind. In addition, do not forget, the product is under warranty service and not for one year. I think there is also a contract after warranty service. They will be rude, the product will quickly turn into firewood. so that the Internet riffraff is not worth steaming the problems of secrecy.
    1. steelmaker Offline steelmaker
      steelmaker 15 November 2021 22: 11
      Internet riffraff is not worth steaming the problems of secrecy.

      How self-critical you are though. And I agree with you!
    2. Master Yoda Offline Master Yoda
      Master Yoda (Master Yoda) 16 November 2021 01: 58
      Quote: Valery Valeriev
      Today, keeping your achievements a secret is almost impossible, and for a long time it is generally unthinkable.

      Believe it or not, the United States did it. Their F-22 was banned for export at the legislative level, and for a very long time no one knew details about the car. Even now we know about her only what the Americans themselves thought it necessary to tell the world. Did they tell the truth and did they tell the whole story - who will vouch?

      Quote: Valery Valeriev
      They will be rude, the product will quickly turn into firewood

      are you piously sure of this? That, for example, the S-400, Su-30MKI, "Calibers", ships sold to India, in which case, "at the push of a button" will turn into trash? Yes, you are a naive human being ...)
  6. TermNachTer Offline TermNachTer
    TermNachTer (Nikolai) 16 November 2021 13: 04
    The Chinese have been copying the S-300 for thirty years now, so far it turns out badly))) and the Chinese, in technical terms, are "head and shoulders above" the Turks.
  7. Sofa division Offline Sofa division
    Sofa division (Maksim) 16 November 2021 21: 04
    Could Turkey copy the technology of the Russian S-400 air defense system?

    The next 15-20 years will not be able to. And then let them copy if they can.
  8. Handle Offline Handle
    Handle (Alexey) 19 November 2021 16: 08
    How to copy it, if it is protected from fools, when you try to open it, all the electronics will turn into a heap of useless garbage.
  9. Dust Offline Dust
    Dust (Sergei) 25 November 2021 06: 53
    I agree with the author of the article, it was impossible to sell it to the Turks. But, we live in Russia where concepts - honor, love for the Motherland .... Since the time of Yeltsin have become fictions. Making money for the sake of momentary gain has long been prevalent in the highest echelons of power.
  10. Silvio Offline Silvio
    Silvio (Silvio) 4 December 2021 11: 22
    Try to copy at least a simple Soviet receiver, provided that all the elements of the receiver are unmarked. I am sure that it will work out if only a diagram is drawn, but this is not enough, it is practically nothing. Modern electronics are much more difficult to copy.
  11. alexey alexeyev_2 (Alexey Alekseev) 2 January 2022 06: 18
    From the first lines I understood - Marzhetskiy. Well, and what with the fact that they sold. The S-300 were sold to the Chinese at one time. They began to copy it. The Turks were vtyuhali. So what? Have the Turks become smarter? What can they spy on in a truncated version .... To listen to you is so terrible than the Turks there is no beast .. And in general .. it was gone .. to the country kirdyk .. According to the laws of wartime, you, for the spread of panic rumors By the way, the Germans sold before the war USSR a cloud of weapons Even such that they have not yet entered service. Until they master the production of the S-400 clone, it will be considered as ancient as the shit of a mammoth request
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  13. SERVER Offline SERVER
    SERVER (Sergei ) 3 January 2022 18: 58
    The first, simplest line of defense is legal. When signing the contract, very serious requirements were placed on the buying side. In particular, Turkey does not have the right to disassemble the complex, make changes to it and maintain it. All maintenance work is carried out only by Russia. Also, no documentation (production data) is transmitted to Turkey. If Russian experts detect interference in the system, then Russia has the right to take these systems back or turn them off (this was told by the presidential aide for military-technical cooperation Vladimir Kozhin).

    Russian engineers can learn about the intervention in the complex in several ways. Firstly, at the next service - a banal damage to the seals. Also in the complex are sensors that, when activated (for example, opening the unit with microcircuits), transmit data through their system to the satellite military communications channel and in Russia they immediately find out about this (the head of the State Duma Committee on Defense, the former Head of the Airborne Forces of the Russian Federation Vladimir Shamanov).

    The complex also has its own internal methods of protection (for example, the complex can be driven into a special hangar where communication with satellites will be blocked). The most important thing in the S-400 is the system operation algorithms. The appearance can be easily copied (as was done in China with the S-300), but you can’t do without a computer and an algorithm wired into it to make it work. So, Turkey at the conclusion of the contract asked to provide access passwords in order to independently enter into the system data on the recognition of “Friend or Foe”, but Russia, of course, refused. Turkey had to transfer information about its aircraft and Russian engineers set up this system on their own, also entering data on Russian fighters into it. Therefore, the missiles of the complex will not be able to shoot down Turkish and Russian aircraft.

    If the Turks (or NATO) try to bypass the password by hacking the system, when an unauthorized access attempt is made, the computer automatically clears all the stored data, which turns the S-400 into a heap of metal
  14. Vladimir Androsov_2 (Vladimir Androsov) 3 February 2022 22: 01
    Why don't we copy the Mercedes? Buy a new one, take it apart and copy, it would seem, what is easier? But so far no one has succeeded. But the car is not as technologically sophisticated as rocket technology. The same can be said about planes, you can copy the silhouette, but the plane is impossible.
    1. avm Offline avm
      avm ( Alexei) 11 February 2022 14: 10
      Why, we copy, but it turns out a Zhiguli ... so they have ...
  15. Evgeny Pugonin Offline Evgeny Pugonin
    Evgeny Pugonin (Evgeny Pugonin) 20 February 2022 18: 48
    Well, we have allies! Turks, Uzbeks, Tajiks... they suck! Asians are not capable of equal cooperation. Oriental flattery and insidious stabs in the back. Strangers in spirit and outlook.
  16. LeftPers Offline LeftPers
    LeftPers (Anton) 21 February 2022 03: 03
    This is the basis of capitalism, there is no honor, conscience, state interests, but there is only damned loot, for which everything is sold.