Why hypersonic "Daggers" and "Zircons" are useless against the US Navy AUG

166

The Russian navy, unfortunately, is, quantitatively and qualitatively, very seriously inferior to its potential adversary, the US Navy. Unable to compete in the speed and scale of the shipbuilding program, the RF Ministry of Defense relied on an “asymmetric response,” which we consider to be hypersonic weapons. If you look at the numerous publications on this topic and the enthusiastic comments of a jingoistic patriotic audience, you may get the impression that we have already won a victory over the Americans in absentia, completely zeroing the potential of 11 AUG. Alas, this is far from the case, and "victory" is more likely to be classified in the media rather than real.

The author of the lines condemns his colleagues in the shop, who disseminate not entirely correct assessments about the real capabilities of Russian hypersonic weapons, thereby provoking inadequate ideas on the merits of the issue from an inexperienced man in the street. Due to such activities, stupid and dangerous mythologemes about the US Navy AUG are formed in the public consciousness, such as that an aircraft carrier is a "useless vessel", "an obsolete weapon of aggression" and "a huge defenseless target" for our "Daggers" and "Zircons" ". Let's take a cold shower and chase away this imposed wrath.



Two ways, and ours is wrong?


A small digression is needed here to explain the difference in the two approaches to building a navy. The Americans, who have almost a century of experience in operating aircraft carriers, know very well that there is nothing more terrible at sea than aviation. Aircraft sank enemy ships many times more than warships, and with much less resource consumption. Deck aircraft can be used in the war of the fleet against the fleet, and in the war of the fleet against the coast. For this reason, the US Navy is built around aircraft carriers, for which a warrant of missile cruisers, destroyers, frigates and submarines is assembled for protection and fire support.

Unfortunately, due to the wrong ideological setting that "an aircraft carrier is a weapon of aggression", the USSR took a different path. The stake was placed on missile weapons, which were seen as a panacea. The Soviet admirals understood the fallacy of such a one-sided approach and by hook or by crook tried to push through the need to build aircraft-carrying ships, at least in the form of TAVRK. "Admiral Kuznetsov" is the highest point of achievement in this undercover struggle. Towards the end of the existence of the USSR, the naval commanders managed to achieve their goal, and a series of four nuclear-powered aircraft carriers of the Ulyanovsk type, comparable to the Nimitz, was laid at once, but due to the collapse of the country, even the lead ship was never completed. The TAVRK "Admiral Gorshkov" was sold to India for some reason, and today we only have "Admiral Kuznetsov", which they are trying to "drown" or set on fire during repairs.

Why are we telling all this? To the fact that the Russian Navy, which is incomparably weaker than the Soviet Navy, is again following the same not entirely correct path, relying exclusively on missiles. The theme of the construction of aircraft carriers has been turned into a kind of farce in the media space. But let's now smoothly move on to hypersonic missiles and explain why this is far from a panacea against the 11 AUG of the US Navy.

And we are their "Zircons" and "Daggers"!


The very idea of ​​a hypersonic weapon is simply wonderful: I launched a missile at hypersonic speed, against which modern missile defense systems are practically useless, and that's it, good-bye an aircraft carrier, and then its escort order. For this, Russia has developed a sea-based anti-ship missile "Zircon" (3M22) and an air-launched hypersonic missile system 9-A-7660 "Dagger". "Zircons" can be launched from submarines, cruisers and frigates, and "Daggers" - from supersonic MiG-31K fighters, Tu-22M3, Tu-160 bombers and, in the future, from the 5th generation Su-57 fighters. It seems that everything is simple: they raised aircraft or fired a volley from ships and submarines - and goodbye, US Navy AUG. Oh, if only it were that simple ...

Unfortunately, the matter is not limited to a simple press of a finger on the conditional "red button". You still try to get into this very aircraft carrier. Let's try to explain the complexity of this combat mission in an extremely simplified form:

At first, AUG of a potential adversary will always try to stay as far away as possible. Due to the presence of carrier-based aircraft, which can deliver air strikes, its "arm" will always be longer than that of a fleet that does not have its own aircraft carrier.

Secondly, a rocket, even a hypersonic one, unable to move in space at lightning speed.

Thirdly, the AUG order will not stand still. Despite their size, American aircraft carriers are capable of moving at very high speeds, which can reach 30 knots.

Taken together, this means that after the launch of the "Zircon" or "Caliber" on one target coordinates, that at the time of the strike will be on the other. The area of ​​the probable location of the target is significantly increased, and the data that was relevant at the time of the launch of the missiles became irrelevant. Yes, the missiles have homing heads, but the work of the seeker is complicated by the fact that they fly at extremely high speeds in a cloud of plasma. And we have not yet said anything about countering a missile attack by air defense systems of the AUG order, electronic warfare and air cover by carrier-based fighter aircraft.

What conclusions can be drawn from this? It is necessary either to shoot from short distances, but who will let us close to him, or the target must be continuously tracked in real time with the transfer of data to the carrier of the missile weapon. Otherwise, our "Zircons" and "Daggers" may not get there. But try to bring our surface ships or combat aircraft to the AUG, which tracks all movements with its own AWACS aircraft and is covered by carrier-based aircraft.

Targeting problems


Our potential enemy in the person of the United States has a huge satellite constellation, as well as several AWACS reconnaissance aircraft on each of its 11 aircraft carrier strike groups, which allow the Pentagon to continuously monitor the situation and provide effective target designation in naval and air combat. Alas, not everything is so wonderful with us.

A sea-based AWACS aircraft in the Russian Navy is absent as a class. In the late USSR, the development of its own Yak-44 AWACS began, but it was never completed. In the US Navy, AWACS reconnaissance aircraft take off from aircraft carriers using a catapult. We did not have time to build our first atomic "Ulyanovsk" with a catapult because of the collapse of the country. Theoretically, the Yak-44 could take off from the Admiral Kuznetsov TAVRK, but only with half-filled fuel tanks to reduce weight. True, recent American experiments show that aircraft can be refueled in the air using drones.

Be that as it may, today we have neither an AWACS aircraft, nor a normal catapult aircraft carrier. As an alternative, the RF Ministry of Defense is considering the Il-20M electronic reconnaissance aircraft, which can provide data for the Dagger missiles via a secure communication channel. True, it is not known how long this turboprop aircraft will last over the sea in the area of ​​operation of the AUG fighter aircraft, but it is clear that it will not last long. What then can you count on in the issue of target designation for the Navy?

"Liana"


Under the USSR, in the absence of the means of deck reconnaissance, the stake was placed on the Legenda naval space reconnaissance and target designation system (MCRTs). It really made it possible to track the situation in the oceans and transmit data for target designation to warships and submarines. In total, over 30 spacecraft were launched into orbit. Their unique feature is the presence of a nuclear reactor that provides a power source. However, in the end it played a cruel joke with "Legend". In 1978, the spacecraft "Kosmos-954" fell in Canada, which led to radiation pollution of a vast territory and an international scandal. Under pressure from the West, this entire system was gradually decommissioned.

To replace it, the Russian Federation has developed the Liana ICRC system. Because of technical the complexity of the program has greatly stretched in time, and today it is a very modest constellation of two satellites of passive electronic reconnaissance "Lotos-S" and two satellites of active radar reconnaissance "Pion-NKS". Let's face it, sparsely when compared with the capabilities of the Soviet "Legend" and the American intelligence group. Considering that these four Russian satellites are also rotating, then there is no need to talk about continuous monitoring of the situation in the entire World Ocean.

Tsushima 2?


Now let's try to imagine the worst case scenario. Let's say that Russia is forced to enter into some kind of armed conflict with the United States. Among the primary goals for the Pentagon will be "blinding" and "stunning" our Armed Forces, Aerospace Forces and the Navy. In view of the extremely small number of the Liana group, this can be done very quickly using anti-satellite missiles. For example, back in 2007, the Chinese were able to shoot down their FY-1C meteorological satellite of the Fengyun series, located in a polar orbit with an altitude of 865 km. The height of the defeat of the American SM-3 Block IIA anti-missile missile is generally 1500 km. In addition, the group of unmanned spaceplanes X-37 Boeing, which the Pentagon intends to bring to 8 pieces, can secretly prepare for the destruction of Russian reconnaissance satellites.

So, what do we have in the bottom line. A potential adversary in the person of the United States is capable of knocking out our Liana ICRC without any problems, making it impossible to transmit data for target designation to the Russian Navy. Due to the lack of aircraft carriers as carriers for the AWACS aircraft and the carrier-based AWACS aircraft themselves as a class, Russian ships will not be able to effectively defeat the US Navy's AUG by the Zircons, and the Russian Aerospace Forces by the Daggers. Even an ordinary, non-carrier-based AWACS aircraft is a rare animal in the army today. At the same time, our fleet, without the cover of its own carrier-based aircraft, will not be able to withstand the over-the-horizon attack of the US Navy AUG. This allows us to draw the disappointing conclusion that relying solely on missiles, supersonic or hypersonic, was one-sided and wrong. Zircons and Daggers are great, but they won't be enough.

The modern fleet, in addition to missiles, needs carrier-based aircraft, reconnaissance and fighter aircraft, which will provide target designation to missiles and aircraft, and also protect ships from air attacks by enemy carrier-based aircraft. That is, it needs a carrier, which will always follow as part of the ship's formation. In other words, an aircraft carrier.
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  1. +19
    8 September 2021 11: 32
    Dear comrade Marzhetsky! Aren't you tired of procrastinating on this topic yourself? US Navy AUG is useless against continental powers. And this is an opinion with which our strategists and American admirals fully agree. Only now this unpretentious idea is voiced for a simple layman extremely rarely and, as a rule, retired.
  2. -17
    8 September 2021 11: 55
    Quote: shinobi
    Dear comrade Marzhetsky! Aren't you tired of procrastinating on this topic yourself? US Navy AUG is useless against continental powers. And this is an opinion with which our strategists and American admirals fully agree. Only now this unpretentious idea is voiced for a simple layman extremely rarely and, as a rule, retired.

    No, I'm not tired. And I will continue it. Because you are wrong.
    US AUG simply will not allow our fleet to fulfill the task of protecting the combat deployment of the Russian RKPSN. And this is one third of our nuclear triad, the most dangerous for the United States.
    The fleet is also needed to combat enemy nuclear submarines with ICBMs, which are aimed at our cities, and it is also needed for the safe withdrawal of our Boreyevs for a retaliatory strike against the United States. And without aircraft carriers in its composition, its combat resistance against AUG is zero.
    So nonsense about continental powers is nonsense. And I will write about it. I'm tired of your "anti-aircraft sect". You are dangerous pests.
    1. +15
      8 September 2021 13: 06
      Yes, yes, they are interfering, well, they are interfering! That's why our nuclear submarines ply freely along their coast. From time to time floating up in the Gulf of Mexico, now in Alaska. You kind of follow the news, or they will laugh. lol
      1. -9
        9 September 2021 00: 16
        They are herded to the fullest. There is no quietness. There is already a low-frequency illumination.
    2. 0
      9 September 2021 11: 46
      Sergey Marzhetsky, a ti slishal voobshe pro english voennie i navigacionnie sputniki ?! Ili ti dumaesh, chto takie sputniki tolko u amerov est? Esli da, to oshibaeshsja, russkie budut zapuskat raketi i vesti ih k amerskim korablam s pomoshju sputnikovoy navigacii, tak chto paren ne prav ti tut ili prosto zanimaeshsja amerikanskoy propogandoyi propogandoy, ne rodimanosho etoja
      1. -2
        10 September 2021 16: 12
        Raul, please write in Russian in our native Cyrillic alphabet.
        And one more thing: I voiced the problem of our fleet and proposed a solution. Where did you see anti-Russian and pro-American propaganda here? Explain.
        1. 0
          11 September 2021 13: 12
          Marzhetsky (Sergey), paren ja iz Germany poetomu i pishu translitom, dumaju chto u tebja hvatit intelekta chtobi ponjat moy translit nu a esli nepoymesh, to poymut drugie, zdes umnih ludey hvataet i bez tebja.
    3. +3
      9 September 2021 15: 37
      We are all sofa experts here. But still, I can make a number of comments on your article. In total, the constellation of military satellites of the Russian Federation has more than 90 devices. How many of them can actually be used for aiming at the AUG is unknown. Since this is classified information. Even the number of satellites of the "Liana" system on different resources is different. But at least this:
      1 spacecraft "Lotos-S" (14F138, "Kosmos-2455"); 4 spacecraft "Lotos-S1" (14F145, "Kosmos-2502", "Kosmos-2524", "Kosmos-2528", "Kosmos-2549"), 1 spacecraft "Pion-NKS" (14F139, "Kosmos-2550" ) and one more device of the Celina-1 system. And this is already 2 satellites. But if we talk about passive radio intelligence, then in theory more than half of all military satellites can be engaged in it. And most likely they are. And it is logical that they do not talk about it to everyone.
      In addition to satellite reconnaissance, AWACS aircraft can also help in aiming at the AUG. So A-50 sees AUG from a distance of 470 km.
      But the most effective in this matter are of course the TU-22M3 bombers. They confidently notice the AUG from a distance of 500 km. And according to some reports, even from 600 km. Actually, it is they who are the most formidable weapon in the fight against the US Navy. Because capable of using X-22 and X-32 missiles with a launch range of up to 1000 km against ships. Although they say that the new "Daggers" can be launched at 2000 km. But as the saying goes, they did not see it.
      But in any case, it is enough that at least one old A-50 or TU-22 M3 aircraft flew 500 km to the AUG and that's it. He will give the coordinates to others. At the same time, he will not need to lead the goal. All our anti-ship missiles have their own guidance radar. I am sure that the Zircons too. As for the plasma cloud, the topic is not simple. For example, I heard this information: when flying at an altitude of 40 km at a speed of 7-8 Machs, a plasma cloud is almost not formed and almost does not interfere with the operation of the radar. But with a decrease, it begins to interfere. But at these speeds, the descent will be very rapid. Everything will happen in 30-40 seconds or less. So, having determined in advance the course of the ship (from a height of 40 km), Zircon may well fall.
      But this is all not accurate. We can only guess about all this. And then based on articles from the wiki and other sources.
      But I think we shouldn't build our own aircraft carriers yet. Too expensive. It is better to continue building new AWACS aircraft and launching new satellites. Moreover, now they are already very compact. And with one rocket, you can launch a dozen.
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 16: 09
        In addition to satellite reconnaissance, AWACS aircraft can also help in aiming at the AUG. So A-50 sees AUG from a distance of 470 km.
        But the most effective in this matter are of course the TU-22M3 bombers. They confidently notice the AUG from a distance of 500 km. And according to some reports, even from 600 km. Actually, it is they who are the most formidable weapon in the fight against the US Navy. Because capable of using X-22 and X-32 missiles with a launch range of up to 1000 km against ships. Although they say that the new "Daggers" can be launched at 2000 km. But as the saying goes, they did not see it.
        But in any case, it is enough that at least one old A-50 or TU-22 M3 aircraft flew 500 km to the AUG and that's it.

        How many of these AWACS aircraft do we have? Which are not decked.
        And by the way, like the A-50 or Tu "will only fly up to a distance of 500 km to the AUG, if it lifted its AWACS aircraft, which it carries with it on the deck, and send to meet the fighters
    4. +2
      9 September 2021 18: 52
      In my opinion, you are a pest, with your crazy ideas. Do you have a task to plunge the country into a new arms race in order to tear the stomach in the buildings of useless AUG?
      You think that there will be no threatened period when, in any case, our SSBNs will have time to leave their home ports covered by local BODs. One would be worth building just to have an idea and develop technologies in this area. No more.
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 16: 10
        Do you think that there will be no threatened period when, in any case, our SSBNs will have time to leave their home ports covered by local BODs.

        This is another article. Fuck what we will withdraw without aircraft carrier cover
    5. 0
      10 September 2021 09: 58
      It is customary to shoot alarmists ... isn't it?
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 16: 10
        But it's better to start with fools
    6. 0
      10 September 2021 20: 00
      Can you answer at what wave height an airborne wing together with an airborne AWACS turns into a simple ballast? Or does AUG only fight in good weather?
      1. 0
        11 September 2021 10: 48
        Russia has a defensive doctrine. This means that the first blow will always be with the United States. They will find good weather for themselves.
    7. 0
      12 September 2021 14: 53
      Mr. Marzhetsky.
      Let me explain how hypersound and aircraft carrier protection systems work.
      1. Hypersonic missiles are easily intercepted by modern missile defense systems in the final phase of flight.

      We can protect our forces from hypersonic threats today, because such threats exist today.

      - US Admiral John Hill, August 2021.
      The AUG PRO SM-6 missile can cope with any Russian or Chinese hypersonic missile in their final section today. Tales about the invulnerability of hypersonic missiles are ...
      2. A stable hypersonic speed of Mach 5 for a hyper-rocket is possible only in the stratosphere above the Armstrong line, about 18000m where the pressure is low.
      With a decrease in altitude, in the final section, a hypersonic rocket gains an increase in atmospheric resistance, speeds drop to supersonic. A hypersonic missile cannot hit surface / ground targets at Mach 5 hypersound as 99% of people believe. The speed depends on the pressure of the atmosphere. The higher the altitude, the lower the pressure, which means the higher the speed.
      4. Today it is difficult to intercept hypersonic missiles only on their mid-flight section in the stratosphere. In the United States, a new missile defense missile is being created for interception, capable of such an interception.
      5. The flight profile of the hyper-missile against shifting targets (amphibious ships) must be long and gentle, otherwise the pressure on the missile will be maximum and it will lose control of the rudders, but 99% of people believe that the hyper-missile swoops down onto the aircraft carrier))). A vertical dive of the rocket from above to the target is possible only if the target is stationary, and only from a height of several kilometers, otherwise the pressure will be such that all steering control of the rocket is reset.
      6. If the Zircon rocket exists, then it probably has a single-mode scramjet, at least in the patent of NPO Mash the creation of a two-mode scramjet was called unrealizable. Therefore, the Zircon at the final stage of flight is simply a gliding subsonic warhead, not a rocket. For hitting accuracy, the warhead must reduce its speed to subsonic, otherwise controllability will be insufficient.
      As far as we know, a dual-mode hyper-rocket is being developed only in the USA, Japan, the development of such a rocket is an extremely difficult task, since it involves a change in the design of the air intake in flight mode, such a rocket will be able to get a running engine constantly at supersonic in dense layers.
      Mr. Marzhetsky, now imagine what a hypersonic missile is in the final phase - a high-altitude subsonic target, it will be intercepted without any problems. All this hype around hypersound is unhealthy.
      Aircraft carrier protection.
      1. The United States knows the time of flight of enemy satellites over the AUG and can apply the following measures:
      It takes time to scatter special carbon clouds around you, making ships invisible in the radar and infrared ranges for enemy satellites and missiles.
      2. Scatter special buoys that are the size of a floating tent and float on the ocean and imitate the work of the AUG, the enemy will have dozens of targets.
      3. To jam hypersonic missiles.
      Hypersonic missiles are very easily clogged with interference, if the hyper-missile cannot find a target within a radius of 50 km, then it will not have time to descend to the target and will fly farther than the target, the stopping distance of hyper-missiles is long. Shipborne electronic warfare noise can significantly reduce the radius of its detection, do not forget about carbon clouds.
      In this sense, subsonic missiles are much better, because they can fly to the target much closer and hit the target even several times.
      Now about the Dagger and Zircon.
      The dagger is not a hypersonic weapon, this missile weighs three tons, any attempt at hypersonic stroking will result in a rapid loss of energy-speed-altitude. And there is no glider shape.
      For example, the American hyper glider AARW has a mass of about 150 kg in total and gladdens for 1500 km along a nebalistic trajectory.
      The existence of Zircon is questionable.
      The theory is that Zircon is not a hypersonic missile, Zircon is rather a modification of the supersonic Onyx with an improved acceleration stage and the achievement of hypersonic Mach 8 occurs like all medium-range missiles.
      I quote from the representative of NPO Mechanical Engineering (developer of Zircon) August 2020:

      We plan to develop a BrahMos hypersonic missile that can achieve speeds of Mach 4.5 by 2025. By 2026-27, we want to create a missile that can cruise at Mach 6-7,

      Alexander Maksichev, co-director of the Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace. (August 2020).
      49,5% of BrahMos Aerospace shares are owned by NPO Mashinostroeniya (developer of Zircon).

      A hypersonic scramjet engine, even for Mach 5, has not been created either in Russia or in India. The creation of a hypersonic missile is only plans for the future.
      1. -3
        14 December 2021 20: 18
        +100! Weighted accurate comment.
  3. +18
    8 September 2021 12: 15
    Quote: shinobi
    Marzhetsky! You yourself are not tired of procrastinating this topic

    Do not interfere with the gesheft of a successful person
    Shekels themselves will not roll into the shekel
    PS You could already get used to the fact that the author is a dreamer.
    1. -1
      9 September 2021 09: 38
      Ha ha THIS IS EXACTLY!
    2. -1
      11 September 2021 10: 50
      Mr. delusional, explain the logic.
      Since when does Israel pay shekels for the authors to defend the idea of ​​strengthening Russia's defenses against the United States, Israel's main ally? That's what the Mossadite Bindyuzhnik is freaking out right now from such a call ... laughing
  4. -7
    8 September 2021 13: 46
    The author is an intriguer))
  5. -8
    8 September 2021 14: 09
    And, again, about non-existent aircraft carriers ...

    In fact, hypersonic anti-ship missiles are direct successors of the supersonic anti-ship missiles of the USSR. koi were made due to the lack of carrier-based aircraft.
    So that the enemy aircraft and the air defense system did not have time to intercept everything. So everything is correct here. According to the calculations on the AO, 20 subsonic = 10 supersonic = approximately 5 hypersonic. (incapacitation of one large ship)

    So what to compare in cost: how much% of an aircraft carrier with planes, for example, are 5 Daggers or 5 Zircons worth? and vice versa.

    "There is no money, but you hold on" - it is immortal!
    1. -4
      8 September 2021 14: 20
      So the author writes about WHY it is just not possible to use the Dagger and Zircon against the AUG.
      Having a stone does not yet mean getting it anywhere.
      1. -6
        8 September 2021 15: 44
        So the same problem was in the USSR. How to visit a ship during NATO domination of the sea.
        The USSR solved it in a complex way. not 100%, but somehow. And the Russian Federation also solves it in a comprehensive manner.

        Let's take homing. Electronic warfare has improved, homing has improved, SAM too, anti-ship missiles too.
        Bottom line: everyone remained about their own, only supersonic changes to hypersound.
        Those. Hypersound separately, guidance separately.

        Far in the ocean - so all the same, our significant forces, the same AUG are not. And off the coast, you can somehow bring it up.
        No wonder there are a bunch of new articles - "we see stealth planes over the whole of Europe."
        with a large number of missiles, part of it will aim and hit.
        (according to the leaked infe, some of the missiles during shelling in Syria are electronic warfare, and reconnaissance and guidance missiles. Those methods are far from new)

        And the cores-loaves do not need accuracy so much ...

        In general, for lack of a stamp, they write on the draft. There is no aiming at 100%, it will come down to 30, then the mass character is needed, as before.

        "There is no money, but you hold on" - it is also applicable here
        1. -1
          9 September 2021 00: 13
          Strategist, what are you going to give? As long as you saw the target and passed it on, it can already disappear.
          1. -1
            9 September 2021 07: 05
            So you obviously confused modern anti-ship missiles and Chinese 80s, controlled by wire.

            All our articles just praise that our missiles are guided by themselves, and data are exchanged purely by "ROY".

            What is the declared detection range of AUG with nuclear submarines? 60-80 km, sort of. And with MIG 31? km 200-300? What kind of brakes do you need to make Aug go 60 km away?

            And if an hour has passed, and there is nowhere to shoot, then the brakes themselves, this is not treated ...
      2. +3
        8 September 2021 15: 46
        Mr. Marzhetsky, judging by his work, proceeds either from the data of the mid-80s, or is completely out of the question of how anti-ship missiles are fired at long distances now. For granites, Basalts, Onyx, it is enough to indicate the square of the location and the type of target, and then (upon arrival at the place) they themselves figure out who-where and who-how, and they do not need support and additional adjustments. I shot it, I forgot. The aircraft carrier's security means can still knock out single targets, the group strike of the AUG will not survive. The latest tests of their interception systems did not show themselves very well. To put it mildly, I never heard that the US AUG approached closer than 600 miles to the coast on which there were coastal anti-ship missile systems.
        1. +2
          9 September 2021 00: 10
          The capabilities of the CLO are rather limited.
          1. -1
            12 September 2021 03: 05
            Yes, if an aircraft carrier on the march extinguished all equipment that did not take part in ensuring the progress, it is not a problem to detect it, but it looks (disguises itself as) like an ordinary dry cargo ship or a tanker.In active mode, elevators, catapults, airfield navigation are working, the aircraft carrier glows like a casino at night in Las Vegas and its signature difficult to confuse with anything, let alone miss. At the distance of the strike on the coast, the AUG is perfectly visible even not very modern radar. When working on the coast, the capabilities of the AUG are greatly narrowed, especially if the sky is not under control. The Americans do not fight without control over the sky.
        2. -1
          11 September 2021 14: 44
          The problem of the lack of target designation is that without it it is impossible to indicate a "square" with a side equal to the capture width of the seeker, where is it itself .... (And then, in the absence of a REP)
          1. 0
            11 September 2021 17: 43
            The horizon range from the bottom is usually considered to be 32 km.
            Many anti-ship missiles, they signed, also make a slide if they fly below. And if they are falling from above ... then they can see quite a lot ...

            What size "square" should you specify in order to fly over and start searching and aiming? 32 + 32 = 64 km on the side - the roughest estimates.
            25 miles per hour the speed of ships - an hour will be approximately crossing ...
    2. -1
      9 September 2021 09: 25
      Well, only Yankee has a dollar printing press, and the rest have to hold on and come up with something. How else?
      1. -2
        9 September 2021 09: 54
        That's it!
        Therefore, all the catch phrases are so accurate and memorable!
  6. +5
    8 September 2021 14: 35
    The Swedish submarine HMS Gotland on a leasehold basis for two years from 2005 to 2007 served in the 7th group of the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76). In the exercises, it was used as a hostile submarine to improve anti-submarine warfare. What is curious: HMS Gotland has always penetrated through security ships and "drowned" the USS Ronald Reagan, escaping with impunity from the pursuers. "The Swedish sub was so quiet that it literally didn't exist for our sensors," a source from the US 7th Fleet told The Drive.

    Roughly $ 150 million is sinking about $ 15 billion with impunity. It looks as if the American AUG (the minimum number of which, by the way, is enshrined at the legislative level) are intended primarily for "cutting the attendants" by military contractors.
  7. 0
    8 September 2021 14: 37
    and "Daggers" ... in perspective from the 5th generation Su-57 fighters.

    But excuse me how? Even in the long term, even in the distant, but how? Just hanging to the belly? And why?
    1. -1
      10 September 2021 16: 06
      This is not my idea. Infa from open sources.
      How? See MiG-31K. It hangs right under the belly.
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 16: 23
        The MiG-31 is just designed to be even under its belly.
        The Su-57 is a stealth fighter; hanging something removes this advantage.
        1. -1
          11 September 2021 10: 51
          Questions to developers
  8. +5
    8 September 2021 15: 22
    no plasma is formed, S300,400 anti-aircraft missiles fly at a speed of 9400 km / h, and no plasma is observed. all the more dagger and x-32 fly at an altitude of 40 km, there is no longer air.
    then the surface ship can approach the AUG imperceptibly in a cloudy storm, when the aircraft and the ship's drone do not fly and the satellites do not see anything, the surface ships will be used against the AUG under the cover of coastal aviation. in the oceans against the AUG, the Yasen airplane will operate, they can safely fire a rocket from 200 km, the approach time is 1,2 minutes, during which time the AUG will not have time to dump
    1. -3
      9 September 2021 00: 08
      Conversation about hypersound. We don't even know how to read, or we are lazy.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  9. -19
    8 September 2021 15: 26
    It seems that Mr. Marzhetsky is slowly beginning to understand that butting with the Americans of the Russian Federation is beyond its strength. There are no technological ones in Russia today. no financial possibilities for the construction of aircraft carrier groups approaching qualitatively to the American ones. The USSR always lagged behind, that's why N. Khrushchev at one time decided to rely on missiles. The corn-grower had the hope that over time, when the Union would catch up and overtake America, the Soviet military-industrial complex would be able to catch up with the American one and produce weapons that would be qualitatively and quantitatively no worse than those produced by the hated Yankees. Alas, the Bolshevik Nikitka was mistaken, the gap is only increasing ...
    1. -2
      8 September 2021 17: 56
      The most important thing is that Russia doesn't try to chase the United States. This is not necessary. This whole strike aircraft carrier fleet is unnecessary. Moreover, there really are no financial or technological capabilities. And there are no political forces either.
      The Russian Federation does not oppose itself globally to the United States and the Western world, there are only economic battles, there will be no real war.
      1. +3
        8 September 2021 20: 42
        Quote: Adler77
        there will be no real war.

        God forbid, who is against it? good
    2. +1
      9 September 2021 11: 54
      Bindyuzhnik (Miron) ti tak Rossiju nenavidish, chto tolko negativ pro vse russkoe pishesh tut ?!
    3. -1
      11 September 2021 10: 53
      It seems that Mr. Marzhetsky is slowly beginning to understand that butting with the Americans of the Russian Federation is beyond its strength.

      The fact that the Russian Navy in its current state cannot butt with the AUG is understandable to everyone except the aircraft carrier sect. For my part, I voice how this imbalance can be corrected.

      There are no technological ones in Russia today. no financial possibilities for the construction of aircraft carrier groups approaching qualitatively to the American ones.

      This is a blatant lie, launched by the enemies of Russia, and taken up by the "sectarians" who are not brilliant in their minds. And I say: those who sink against aircraft carriers are the real pests.
      1. -2
        11 September 2021 15: 34
        Quote: Marzhetsky
        This is a blatant lie launched by the enemies of Russia

        Alas, Mr. Marzhetsky, this is pure truth, no matter how sad it may be for you. Moreover, Russia's lagging behind is growing every day. You can puff up as much as you like and tell hurray-patriotic tales about the power of the Russian military-industrial complex, but this does not change the state of affairs, only the blind does not see the obvious.
  10. +3
    8 September 2021 18: 32
    Again we break spears for an empty reason, well, and let all the US AUG zigzags sausage across the oceans, along the Black and Azov Seas, along the Baltic and the Arctic with Antarctica, it’s on a very big drum for us, because America itself will not budge from this not an inch, no matter how many aircraft carriers with their cover the United States does not have, and while they are raising their aircraft into the air, and already a dozen of our seventy-five-kiloton missiles launched out of several thousand launched by us at our "partners" will forever calm them down, "a breakthrough "There is a channel named after Stalin between Mexico and Canada, and in the event of any provocation from these AUGs, the answer should be instantaneous and by all means of delivery, in such a case there should be no room for jokes and mistakes.
    1. 0
      9 September 2021 00: 06
      It's just bottomless stupidity.
  11. +4
    8 September 2021 18: 40
    Why doesn't anyone take into account the extremely low combat radius of the wing?
    1. +5
      8 September 2021 20: 27
      But why? For figures like Marzhetsky or Bindyuzhnik, these are meaningless details. A trifle, not worthy of attention. The fact that the speed of response to an attack, raising the first plane into the air is almost 18 minutes, a trifle. Our admirals and strategists are just stupid people, they don't understand anything. [sarcasm]
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 16: 04
        Please don't put me next to Bindyuzhnik. It is an insult.
        1. +1
          10 September 2021 23: 43
          There are two opinions: the first is mine, and the second is wrong, this is the whole meaning of your statements and all sorts of binders, steelworkers and others. This is a statement of the obvious to everyone. You do not perceive criticism in any form and like to juggle the facts. Hence the negative attitude towards your works, and for many, and to you personally.
          1. -1
            11 September 2021 10: 57
            This is a statement of the obvious to everyone. You do not perceive criticism in any form and like to juggle the facts. Hence the negative attitude towards your works, and many people also towards you personally.

            To be honest, I don't care about your attitude towards me. It makes me neither hot nor cold. There are only a few people on Earth whose opinion matters to me. None of their local hangouts belong to them.
            As for the criticism and my attitude to it, neither you nor anyone else could object to anything worthwhile. You are just not in the subject of the word at all. It is better to listen to people who know and understand more in this matter than you do. wink
            If interested, carefully read the comments of the user under the nickname Phantom. The person clearly knows more than you. soldier
    2. -1
      10 September 2021 16: 04
      how low it is. what radius

      Phantom (Phantom) Yesterday, 20:06
      +1
      Quote: Yuri Nemov
      1) Modern hypersonic missiles have a significantly larger range than AUG carrier-based aircraft

      you are wrong. the LRASM missile has a range of about 800 km. We add to it the Hornet's range within 700 km - and we get 1500 km.
  12. +6
    8 September 2021 18: 59
    We take a large vat of spreading noodles (as an option a can of freshly picked cranberries) and begin to carry outright nonsense. smile

    Let's try to explain the complexity of this combat mission in an extremely simplified form:

    First, the potential adversary's AUG will always try to stay as far away as possible. Due to the presence of carrier-based aircraft, which can deliver air strikes, its "arm" will always be longer than that of a fleet that does not have its own aircraft carrier.

    Secondly, a rocket, even a hypersonic one, is not capable of moving in space at lightning speed.

    Thirdly, the AUG order will not stand still. Despite their size, American aircraft carriers are capable of moving at very high speeds, which can reach 30 knots.

    "We sobbed with the whole minibus ...." laughing

    At first the range of action of ground aviation (even without missile weapons) is any further than AUG aviation.
    Which immediately resets the flight of the author's thought ..
    Our fleet in the foreseeable future is not going to recapture the Hawaiian Islands from the United States, author, why throw money down the drain?

    Secondly a rocket for any faster than "lightning aircraft based on no less lightning self-propelled carrier barges". feel
    Which, by the way, still need to take off, and this is not always possible.
    The author prefers simply not to notice this spicy side of the question.
    And by the way..
    The author forgets that a military conflict with the United States and NATO can only be full-fledged, with the use of all types of weapons.
    In such a conflict, the AUG either will not have time to swim anywhere, or will turn into a radioactive burning and sinking scrap metal in the first minutes of the war.
    "And survivors today will envy those who died yesterday."

    Thirdly, 30 nodes for current guidance systems is nothing at all. request
    You probably reread the materials from the Second World War.
    But with a successful hit, 30 knots will pretty much add the speed of the seawater entering the interior. wink

    PS It is difficult for me to understand why the author, ignoring new realities, continues to clutch at the leaving legacy of the 20th century.
    1. +1
      8 September 2021 20: 40
      He clings, moreover, only to facts convenient to him, because there is simply no real statistics on the effectiveness of the use of aircraft carriers in the second half of the twentieth century. There is data on individual operations, and then only where there is clearly a winning situation, but no more. Sober-minded people can still compare the general the number of aircraft carriers of all types at the beginning of the 50s (ninety-odd units) and the current 13 units, so one may ask: Why is it that the US legislation spelled out a minimum irreducible number (not less than 11) if this is such a super-duper weapon?
      1. -2
        9 September 2021 21: 33
        Quote: shinobi
        why is it a minimum irreducible amount (not less than 11) is prescribed in US legislation

        because 11 aircraft carriers is the minimum required number for solving tasks, according to the military-political leadership of the United States. Is it really difficult to think of it yourself?
        1. 0
          10 September 2021 01: 01
          Well, is it so?
          1. -2
            10 September 2021 13: 06
            Probably, the US leadership knows better. Well, you can figure it out for yourself - at least 4 AUGs on duty, at the time of hostilities, as a rule, several AUGs merge into one large aircraft carrier strike force (AUS) with 2-3 aircraft carriers and a corresponding increase in escort and supply ships. Some of the ships are in service. repair and modernization. The figure of 11, of course, can be discussed until blue in the face, but the fact that AB States requires at least 8-10 is true.
            1. -1
              11 September 2021 00: 29
              Kim Jong-un showed to the whole world that AUG, even united in AUS, are worthless, provided they are determined to protect their country and its interests by any means. And the Squadron left incessantly. And Trump then had to try very hard to blab it all out. They know how to chatter their shoals. Wait, in a year or two, they will turn their drap from Afghanistan into a victory.
    2. -1
      10 September 2021 13: 50
      Quote: Ulysses
      The author forgets that a military conflict with the United States and NATO can only be full-fledged, with the use of all types of weapons

      You make the same major mistake over and over again. Why do you think so. that a hypothetical conflict with NATO will be precisely with the use of nuclear weapons? NATO members are just preparing to fight with conventional, but high-precision weapons. Which provides damage no less than a nuclear bombardment.
      But the one who is the first to use nuclear weapons will instantly become the aggressor. And in the future this country, even if it survives in the fire of war, will not expect anything good. So we must learn to fight in accordance with realities, and not with fantasies.
      You, of course, can blather: how is it, after all, the United States threw nuclear bombs on Japan, and no one condemned them, and in general they had nothing! And who would condemn them, and who would do what to them? THE USSR? So the States are allies! Germany, have children, women and old people barked up to their elbows? The Japanese who are no better than the Nazi criminals?
      1. 0
        11 September 2021 00: 43
        The reality is that the United States is not able to defeat it on its own with conventional weapons.
        1. -2
          11 September 2021 00: 46
          Quote: shinobi
          The reality is that the United States is not able to defeat anyone with conventional weapons on its own.

          I'm afraid you should write Russia instead of the United States. Then it will be more correct. Our Armed Forces are significantly inferior to the Armed Forces of even the States alone. Both in conventional and precision weapons. That is why (even here) everyone is shaking with a nuclear baton, because we can do little with an ordinary baton. Learn to accept facts as they are, rather than pulling an owl onto the globe.
          1. 0
            11 September 2021 00: 50
            If the United States really could do something, it has done it long ago.
            1. -2
              11 September 2021 00: 57
              They did. With almost all countries that the USSR did not support. Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia ... And they can do it, everything will depend on who will sit in the White House.
              In addition, nowadays the game is played by slightly different means and is more subtle than a banal blow to the forehead with a club. If you can step on a corn by political and economic means, is it worth driving the army and navy? Here, for example, the MTO item in Sudan has been "squeezed out" from Russia. Without firing a shot.
      2. -1
        13 September 2021 20: 39
        You make the same major mistake over and over again. Why do you think so. that a hypothetical conflict with NATO will be precisely with the use of nuclear weapons?
        NATO members are just preparing to fight with conventional, but high-precision weapons. Which provides damage no less than a nuclear bombardment.

        Russia doesn’t care what the US and its tobaccos from NATa are going to do ...
        In the event of a threat of military defeat, all available nuclear potential will be used.

        The world in which we are not, we are not interested ...
        1. -2
          13 September 2021 20: 46
          Quote: Ulysses
          Russia doesn’t care what the US and its tobaccos from NATa are going to do ...
          In the event of a threat of military defeat, all available nuclear potential will be used

          You have already reported this to the president. he is aware? And then Putin is broadcasting the following speeches:

          ... Russia's nuclear concept is that the country does not strike first, but he will definitely return

          and his ministers:

          Nuclear weapons remain a deterrent and we are not talking about using it first.... And while we generally discourage the use of force, we reserve the right to preemptively use conventional weapon and we are not going to give it up voluntarily

          you pass your wet dreams as reality
          1. -1
            13 September 2021 21: 47
            You have already reported this to the president. he is aware? And then Putin is broadcasting the following speeches:

            I am begging you.

            On June 2, President Vladimir Putin approved the Fundamentals of the State Policy of the Russian Federation in the Field of Nuclear Deterrence by his decree. The criteria for Russia's use of nuclear weapons in comparison with the military doctrine approved in 2010 have not changed: Moscow can use it in response to an attack on it or its allies with the use of nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction, or in the event of aggression with conventional weapons, if "the very existence of the state is threatened.".

            What do you not understand?
            1. -2
              13 September 2021 22: 03
              This is incomprehensible to you. This is exactly the case when "I look at a book - I see a fig."

              Quote: Ulysses
              Moscow can apply it in response to the attack on her or her allies using nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction either in the case of aggression with conventional weapons, if "the very existence of the state is threatened"

              You did not understand what was written. With nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction, everything is clear - they have recorded the fact, hands are free to use the response. The last reservation just levels out all your words, but in no way contradicts my words. What does it mean "endangered the very existence of the state"? Losing the fleet? Well no. Defeats of ground forces, loss of aviation? Also no. This is when the northern fur-bearing animal has already arrived - that's when. But then it may already be too late, there will be nothing to answer. NATO's strategy of delivering a disarming preemptive strike with conventional precision weapons is designed for that. You will not even understand in the first hours how large the consequences of the blow will be. It is enough to disable the city's power system (and a couple of missiles will be enough for that) - here's an emergency for you, and you don't need a nuclear one. no tank, no chemical weapons - the city itself will drown in its waste. And while you are collecting data, analyzing and thinking, it will be too late. This is precisely why conventional weapons are needed in order to be able to repulse the enemy not only with a nuclear strike. Because conventional weapons can always be used, they seem to be in the law, in contrast to nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction.
  13. +3
    8 September 2021 19: 12
    Well, if it is necessary to improve the missile homing system, then it will be done (or already done), only we will not know about it until the sinking of the first Amersky AUG!
  14. +3
    8 September 2021 20: 07
    The author is a great fellow! He wrote many letters of praise to a potential military enemy, but rightly so, it is better to overestimate the enemy than to underestimate him. But there is a big BUT:
    1. The destruction of the AUG is a world war, which means it will be fought with unconventional weapons, which means that the nuclear charges just need to be delivered to the approximate area of ​​the location of the AUG.
    2. If AUG were such a real wunderwaffe, the United States would have unleashed a war with the Russian Federation long ago.
    3. If hyper sound weapons were not scary for the AUG, the Pentagon would not have shouted that it is necessary to immediately put hyper sound technologies under international control through the transfer of technologies to the United States, since their presence in the Russian Federation upsets the balance of power and is dangerous for the world order
    1. -1
      9 September 2021 19: 35
      Quote: Oleg Gorshkov
      The destruction of AUG is a world war, so it will be fought with unconventional weapons

      not a fact at all. The war will just be waged (at least in the first couples) with conventional high-precision weapons. You made one wrong assumption, and therefore your whole theory goes to dust)
  15. +4
    8 September 2021 21: 13
    AUG ...... Aircraft carrier Gerald Ford $ 12,8 billion.
    Aircraft carrier group (90 aircraft) approximately $ 9 billion.
    2-3 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers $ 1,6 billion each
    2 Ticonderoga-class missile cruiser $ 1,0 billion each
    1-2 Virginia nuclear submarines $ 1,8 billion each
    1 support ship
    I don't cite the annual content of the entire AUG, since official data are not published, and I do not want to cite the speculations of experts ...
    It's good when the military budget is $ 700 billion, but if the military budget is $ 70 billion?
    1. -1
      9 September 2021 21: 29
      The construction of an aircraft carrier in Russia rests only on the will of the country's leadership, all the rest is slyness. You can find money, there are technologies, and a scientific and industrial base.
      And what do you bring the American rates to? We are not in the USA. The cost of building a domestic AV with a displacement of 70-80 thousand tons was roughly called 400 billion rubles (if nothing is stolen and will not be altered 10 times). That's roughly $ 5,5 billion. And the planes for the domestic aerospace forces for 80-100 million apiece go.
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 15: 43
        thanks for the adequate comments
  16. -6
    8 September 2021 21: 19
    Chubais also says that we do not need that, and this is why. Nobody is going to attack us, we will sell oil and gas, and buy whatever our heart desires. And as a result, Putin and Shoigu all wear Soviet "galoshes". And why "buy" your own, when you can "walk" in Soviet ones for another decade? And as a result, there are not enough Zircons or Vanguards. Any self-respecting country tries to have an aircraft carrier: China, India, for example. And how long has Russia been without a flag and anthem? And if you don't respect yourself, why should others respect you?
    1. +2
      9 September 2021 13: 04
      Read above how much it costs to build and maintain an aircraft carrier, and below read how in just 6 minutes it will turn into a mass grave. Then turn on your brains and think about how, after the Zircon attack, those countries will respect themselves when their AUG goes to the bottom. PS steelmaker should cook steel, and not be measured by aircraft carriers.
      1. -4
        9 September 2021 19: 38
        and now you turn on your brains and think about what the carrier of hyper or some other missiles will turn into after the attack of the aircraft carrier's wing? Not to turn into a mass grave? Why do you always come out from wrong assumption that the AUG will just defend and wait for the gifts that have arrived, and not vice versa, will strike a preemptive blow? Means to ensure the first detection and identification of the enemy with her (AUG) is much more than that of a KUG without AWACS aircraft.
        1. 0
          10 September 2021 05: 00
          To do this, he must approach the intended impact site (to the coast or KUG) at least 600 km. For modern monitoring stations (1500 km min.-4500 km max.), This is what is called in the palm of your hand. About suddenness of speech does not go even close .And in response, everything that is there will fly. I don’t know why everyone clung to the "Zircon" with the "Dagger", but the anti-ship missiles already in service are enough to knock down arrogance from anyone.
          1. -2
            10 September 2021 13: 14
            AUG is capable of keeping defenses within a radius of 1000 kilometers or more, AUS - even more. Second - first, Tomahawks and other missiles will fly to suppress air defense, coastal batteries and command posts, aviation at this time blocking the area of ​​hostilities. And then she herself, the carrier-based aircraft, will enter into action, finishing off on the ground, on the water and in the air what the missiles did not finish off.
            In the sea, the AUG has no competitors at all, because during its history of existence aviation has proven that it can sweep away any enemy. It is quite difficult to repel an air raid even with serious air defense systems. Dominance in a certain area of ​​the ocean is more likely to be gained by the one who has the opportunity to keep aviation at hand - i.e. one who has aircraft carriers.

            Quote: shinobi
            For modern monitoring stations (1500 km min.-4500 km max.) This is what is called in the palm of your hand

            And a remark for the over-the-horizon radars that you boast about as a kind of wunderwaffe. Are you really sure that the radar transmits the picture as if a person is looking with his eyes "?)) It gives only a mark, and very, very uninformative, and go figure out what it is - an aircraft carrier or a large" citizen ", where he is going and at what speed Intelligence is indispensable by other means.
            1. 0
              11 September 2021 00: 13
              Oh how! Does the mark only mean? Dear, what year do you use the materials for? The end of the VM? Does the term radio signature say anything about it? The fact that any object has it as individual as fingerprints? The operator on modern radars, next to the mark, always has a digital the letter code by which you can get detailed information about the "label" on the next monitor. About the first blow with axes and other. I understood what I wrote? This is War! Big War. And your vaunted AUG will live exactly until the arrival of a link of Granites, Malachites or other stones (depending on equipment) from the closest submarine to the warrant. Or is it such a huge secret for you that any AUG is constantly grazed by our multipurpose submarines? Ask yourself why the strongest fleet on earth every time falls into hysteria after our submarines are designated as surfacing their presence where they seem to be not there?
              1. -3
                11 September 2021 00: 31
                Quote: shinobi
                Oh, how! Does the mark only mean?

                Exactly. How did you want the radar station to write to you, for example, USS Theodore Roosevelt opposite the mark, and at the same time the composition of the whole group? Yes, you are not only a layman, but also a storyteller)) If AB decides to pretend to be a tanker, go like a merchant ship along the usual routes for them and at their usual speed - no radar will distinguish it from a tanker. Or you can get into a flock of fishermen - and then no one will find you at all. At the time of fishing, they usually have AIS terminals turned off (so as not to show "fish" places to competitors) - and there will simply be unidentified "targets"

                Quote: shinobi
                And your vaunted AUG will live exactly until the arrival of a link of Granites, Malachites or other stones (depending on equipment) from the closest nuclear submarine to the warrant

                fairy tales, solid fairy tales)) the submarine with a slipper will receive target designation? Or are you going to shoot with direct fire? Are you aware that the AUG sotsav includes at least one hunter submarine?
                Of course, during exercises, there are cases of successful submarine actions and even conditional destruction of an aircraft carrier. And how many cases, when the situation is exactly the opposite, was the submarine discovered and "destroyed"? Do not know? Such cases are not written in the press, because this is bad news for urry patriots. And such vulnerable people with an unstable psyche should not be upset)

                People like you always have one scenario - AUG froze in the ocean, and waits for who is the first and how to start hitting her. Do you lack the mind to simulate some other, more real situations?

                Above, I already wrote about the conclusions of the Soviet admirals, who believed that to destroy an aircraft carrier or inflict unacceptable damage to the AUG requires a very significant number of forces, and many-sided forces. To effectively penetrate, it is necessary to strike from different directions, operate simultaneously with aviation, submarines and surface ships. With a salvo of about 80-100 missiles, and come to terms with their own large losses, especially aircraft and submarines.
                1. -1
                  11 September 2021 00: 48
                  Everything is clear. Without comments. And nothing so that the USSR is 30 years old and during this time a lot has changed?
                  1. -1
                    11 September 2021 00: 51
                    Quote: shinobi
                    Is it okay that the USSR has not been there for 30 years and has changed a lot during this time?

                    changed, of course. Only in which direction? Overseas, after all, they did not sit idly by, and we still had the magical 90s and after.
        2. 0
          10 September 2021 20: 09
          Above, I asked - at what wave height will the wing be turned into ballast, at what wind force no flyer will be able to climb onto the deck? And tell us, how long do Russian torpedoes sense the wake of an aircraft carrier? and others like them ...
          1. -1
            10 September 2021 20: 27
            Quote: facktor
            Above, I asked - at what wave height will the wing be turned into ballast, at what wind force no flyer will be able to climb onto the deck? And tell us, how long do Russian torpedoes sense the wake of an aircraft carrier? and others like them ...

            you yourself would be enlightened, since the topic is interesting to you, so as not to ask stupid questions. Or is it just another supposedly "murderous argument"? wassat .
            American aircraft carriers of the "Nimitz" class are capable of picking up and receiving aircraft when the sea is 7 points. act even in a storm. No wonder they are so big and equipped with catapults. And, for your information, with such excitement, the overwhelming majority of surface ships are not capable of using rocket weapons. For example, for the X-35 and X-31AD anti-ship missiles, the wave height limit is 5 points, for small carriers of the MRK type - up to 3,5 points.
      2. -2
        9 September 2021 21: 19
        Quote: Yuri Nemov
        Read above how much it costs to build and maintain an aircraft carrier, and below read how in just 6 minutes it will turn into a mass grave.

        The USSR at the peak of its development had 5 aircraft carrier ships (TAVKR "Kiev", "Minsk", "Novorossiysk", "Admiral Gorshkov" and "Admiral Kuznetsov", the same type of "Varyag" was under construction) and was going to build 4 more, already nuclear ( the head of them, Ulyanovsk, was even laid). Was it possible that the Soviet admirals were worse than you, if the skebe wanted these "cans that sink in 5 minutes"? Or maybe you are mistaken, sofa iksperd, which, with a stroke of a pen, leveled the role of aviation? Let's give up ground aircraft and helicopters, and at the same time from tanks, because there are anti-tank missiles! A missile for 500 thousand will break a tank for 5-10 million! Down with tanks, down with planes, more, more missiles! You broadcast about the same thing - and you don't even realize that you are talking utter nonsense.

        And returning to the Soviet admirals. According to their calculations, in order to drown an aircraft carrier or cause irreparable damage to the AUG, a simultaneous attack by versatile forces was required - NK, nuclear submarines and aviation, and the losses were estimated as very high.
    2. -1
      9 September 2021 14: 19
      This is because he and China will show off in front of each other.
      In fact, the combat value of all aircraft carriers in China and India and Britain and France and others like them tends to zero.
      They all have neither experience nor a complete set of appropriate AUG weapons.
      And only the USA has, only their Augs are dangerous
  17. 0
    9 September 2021 00: 03
    Did not delve into, did not read, but the author is wrong. Read the same Timokhin and Klimov.
    1. -1
      9 September 2021 12: 30
      Why should you read this couple of all-propals who imagined themselves to be strategists of the entire Navy?
  18. +2
    9 September 2021 02: 06
    There is no fundamental problem of guiding missiles at a moving sea target. The author writes that while the zircon flies along the initial coordinates, the target will have time to get away from its original location. Back in the USSR, a variant of a group launch ("flock") of missiles, exchanging coordinates, was worked out. It also allows for a tandem launch, for example, the first rocket follows the initial coordinates, the second follows it with some delay. The first missile, having detected the target, transmits the specifying coordinates to the second, the time delay between which is set taking into account the possibility of the subsequent capture of the target by the second missile.
  19. -5
    9 September 2021 06: 44
    In my opinion, the author is Right! For a long time, the Russian military-industrial complex has not been able to produce, produce modern military products, and even what was produced under the USSR they have forgotten how to exploit and maintain! That's why all the comments are: We can repeat! You can do nothing, you can only grind nonsense. Very true article.
    1. +4
      9 September 2021 07: 38
      It’s in your Ukraine that they have not been able to build one corvette for 20 years, but in the Ukrainian SSR aircraft carriers have been built, so there is something to be sad about. And in the Russian Federation, although there are problems, the fleet, at the very least, is being updated with not the most bad ships. So early you bury us pan ...
      1. -2
        9 September 2021 18: 14
        An article about the US Navy, please read what is discussed in the article you are commenting before commenting!
    2. 0
      9 September 2021 14: 20
      Straighten the saucepan.
      1. 0
        9 September 2021 18: 16
        A site on a military theme, but you probably about cooking and healthy food, I'm sorry!
  20. +2
    9 September 2021 06: 54
    Yes, yes, Zircons and Daggers are useless. Only for those who have not taken haloperidol. the author would first read the ovsky assessment of zircon by experts. There they took haloperidol and somehow they are sooo sad and they do not consider the possibility of targeting a problem at all. Especially there they are confident in increasing the range to 1500 km and then they just feel bad
  21. +1
    9 September 2021 07: 33
    Let's leave the author's fantasies to the author, and we'll talk about real events.
    1) 1982 Falklands War. England has a whole squadron of the latest warships, a container ship converted into a light aircraft carrier, from which the Harrier vertical takeoff and landing fighters, some of the best in their class, fly. The result is disastrous. Argentina, having far from the largest and most modern army, was able to inflict significant losses on the British, sinking several British ships, including an improvised British aircraft carrier, landing ships. Destroyers and frigates were hit by Argentine bombs and missiles, and only the fact that most of the old (WWII bombs purchased by Argentina in the United States) did not explode saved the British from complete defeat.

    2) On May 17, 1987, a single fighter of the Iranian Air Force attacks the old subsonic anti-ship missile system Exocet, the US frigate Stark. The Iraqis released only 1 anti-ship missile system and it hit the target, seriously damaging the frigate, and only calm at sea allows the Yankees to bring the crippled ship to the nearest port of their allies.

    3) On July 3, 1988, a US cruiser of the Tikanderrog type (equipped with the Aegis system, which the Yankees are so proud of) shot down a civilian airbus A-300, mistaking it for a combat aircraft ... So this system is not so perfect if it cannot distinguish a huge slow-speed a civilian aircraft, from an F-14 fighter in service with the Iranian Air Force (the Yankees assumed they were shooting at a combat aircraft)

    4) Heavy anti-ship missiles, such as, for example, the Chinese ballistic anti-ship missile system DF-21D are launched into the target area, the warhead of the missile itself performs precise aiming. The last Soviet anti-ship missiles, such as Vulcan, Granite, Basalt, have the same dignity ... I don't think that modern Onyx-M is equipped worse ...

    As for the Daggers and Zircons, the information about them is secret, but I didn’t hear something that some of the local authors had an education and a position that would make it possible to judge something like this technique ... There was one Israeli who left the union in the 70s of the last century and judged the Russian army and judged the Russian army by the experience of his service in the Soviet army .. Since then a lot of water has flowed under the bridge ... By the way, the first US warship equipped with the Aegis system entered service in 1983. .. why don't you write that this system is almost 40 years old ...
    1. -2
      9 September 2021 19: 50
      Quote: Sapsan136
      Falklands War 1982 England has a whole squadron of the latest warships at the time, a container ship converted into a light aircraft carrier, from which the Harrier vertical takeoff and landing fighters, some of the best in their class, fly.

      and not destiny to figure out why?
      First, the British did not have AWACS aircraft. They simply did not see the enemy at the required distance.
      Secondly, the Sea Harriers did not have an onboard radar. And therefore they could not independently conduct effective interception
      Thirdly, the KVMS air defense system of that time left much to be desired. They could not fight low-flying targets (and even now for many complexes a low-flying, even subsonic missile is a problem)

      Quote: Sapsan136
      On May 17, 1987, a single Iranian Air Force fighter attacks an old subsonic anti-ship missile system Exocet, the US frigate Stark. The Iraqis fired only 1 anti-ship missile and it hit the target, seriously damaging the frigate, and only calm at sea allows the Yankees to bring the crippled ship to the nearest port of their allies

      the commander of the frigate has already announced. All the blame is on the carelessness of the team and the commander. No more. There would be a real war - the fighter would be overwhelmed even before it launched the rocket, and if it did, at least they would fire at the flying anti-ship missile system, i.e. the chances of not getting her on board were very high.

      Quote: Sapsan136
      On July 3, 1988, a US cruiser of the Tikanderrog type (equipped with the Aegis system, which the Yankees are so proud of) shot down a civilian airbus A-300, mistaking it for a combat aircraft ... So this system is not so perfect if it cannot distinguish a huge slow-speed civil aircraft , from an F-14 fighter in service with the Iranian Air Force (the Yankees assumed they were shooting at a combat aircraft)

      the idea did not occur to the Americans that the Americans were shooting at the liner, and then they simply turned on the fool - they say, they got it mixed up, forgive us? I will never believe that even a goof operator could confuse the marks of a healthy carcass of a citizen and a fighter.

      Quote: Sapsan136
      Heavy anti-ship missiles, such as the Chinese ballistic anti-ship missile DF-21D

      will not be able to harm the AUG or KUG. They just won't hit a ship, even one as healthy as an aircraft carrier. To paint all the nuances, you will need a whole article, just trust the person who understood this topic thoroughly. The only way to hit the ships with these missiles is the massive launch and equipping of a nuclear warhead. But this is a different calico.

      Quote: Sapsan136
      So this system is not so perfect

      Yes. Aegis is not perfect. There is nothing perfect in the world. However, Aegis quite successfully copes with high-altitude and high-speed units (that is, it can, and has proven it, intercept supersonic anti-ship missiles. At one time, the United States bought supersonic targets from Russia, made their own on their basis, and "taught" the system to deal with them). Its main problem is its extreme "dislike" for low-flying (of the order of several meters) targets. Therefore, the same X-35, for example, have more chances to break through it than the X-31
    2. -2
      9 September 2021 21: 47
      yes, in addition.

      Quote: Sapsan136
      a container ship converted into a light aircraft carrier, from which the Harrier vertical takeoff and landing fighters fly

      Firstly, "Atlantic" has never been an aircraft carrier, neither light nor heavy - not any. He is air transport... It was not intended to be operated from either VTOL aircraft or helicopters - only for transportation. The 14 Harriers he was transporting were loaded onto the Invincible and Hermes. The helicopters remaining on the Atlantic burned down with him. Helicopters, again, were not intended for flights from it - they were needed for the land phase. Due to the loss of the turntables, the gallant British special forces had to stomp to Port Stanley on foot.
      1. -1
        10 September 2021 12: 59
        Only war, all other theories and advertising will put everything in its place. By the way, after the appearance of Tomahawk missiles on ArlieBerk, any Burke can be jammed, it is as dangerous as any US aircraft carrier, and it hits, or not, in the exercises more and more often perfectly, or well, and as the exercises end, NATO starts kicking from Afgan. beat in Fallujah and other unexpected ...
        1. -2
          10 September 2021 13: 31
          Quote: Sapsan136
          Only war will put everything in its place, all other theories and advertising

          In this case, with the same success, one can doubt the qualities of domestic weapons. In the capabilities of the S-300/400, in the capabilities of the newest and "most" naval air defense systems and MFRLS, and even about hypersonic weapons, apart from advertising articles, there is nothing at all (the appearance of "Zircon" is not known to anyone at all - a case that has no analogues in the world) : the rocket supposedly exists, supposedly successfully passes tests, is about to be put into service, but no one knows what it looks like) Or maybe there is no rocket that has already sunk the entire American fleet 25 times in absentia, but there is something else that we can show - will you have uncomfortable questions? How awkward questions arose after the video published (by the Ministry of Defense itself!) From the Gosov corvette "Thundering", when it barely managed to shoot down an ancient RM-15 target using the parameters on which Soviet air defense systems "jammed" these targets in batches half a century ago. And "Aegis" does not "train" according to ancient subsonic high-flying targets - do you notice the difference?

          In this way, denying everything, you can go very far and doubt absolutely everything. Nevertheless, S-300/400 targets are shot down at ranges. How "Standards" knock them down, And I see no reason for any doubts. Exercises are carried out for this purpose so that the personnel know how to handle the weapons entrusted to them, know its features and tactics of use, and do not treat ultra-modern and literally "golden" complexes like a log
          1. -1
            10 September 2021 16: 49
            You also wrote about the Crimean Bridge that it is a cartoon ... now write the same thing about Zircons and Daggers ... your UNA-UNSO is being repeated ...
            1. -2
              10 September 2021 17: 08
              Quote: Sapsan136
              You also wrote about the Crimean bridge that it is a cartoon

              so as not to be a terry idiot, a quote - in the studio!

              Quote: Sapsan136
              your UNA-UNSO

              what is this nonsense?

              Do you have anything to say on the case? Do you have a video or photo of this rocket? Prove if I'm wrong?
              1. -1
                10 September 2021 18: 17
                Yes, what a quote, sir, all your UkroSMI shouted that the Crimean Bridge cardboard shot at Mosfilm ... By the way, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation purchases 250 new hypersonic anti-ship missiles for the VKS Dagger, information in open sources ... I don't drink, I don't smoke, I'm not Poroshenko ...
                1. -2
                  10 September 2021 19: 32
                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I’m not Poroshenko ...

                  I'd rather drink. A drunk man sleeps off - he will be a man again, a stupid man - will never grow wiser.
                  Now then explain, from what hangover did you decide that ukrosmi - "our"? Or are you one of those great and mighty so smart that if a person does not agree with you, then he is a crest, a fascist, and so on? Or maybe you will give me a reasoned answer to the question, in fact, will you give me something? And you behave like a fool. Yes, few people can face facts if they don't like the facts. Well, the question should be asked not to the one who voices the facts, but to the one, because of whose actions or inactions these facts are possible.

                  And you are still a bummer. I proved it myself)

                  Quote: Sapsan136
                  By the way, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation purchases 250 new hypersonic anti-ship missiles for the VKS

                  Photo of "Zircon" will you show, for which you are all praying here? Or don't you even know what you are praying for?

                  And do not flap off the point. You haven't answered for the insults yet (of course, it's useless to expect an apology from this)
                  1. -2
                    11 September 2021 09: 31
                    You well noticed that a drunk will sleep it off, a Banderaite will never ... There is no problem for you, just people like you are so zambia that they can't see beyond their own nose, and even your education ... it is replaced by UNA-UNSO manuals. ... You wrote about the imitators of anti-ship missiles that the Anglo-Saxons bought in the post-Soviet space and the fact that they were able to intercept this imitator with their air defense systems somewhere in the exercises for you an argument against the modern anti-ship missiles of the Russian Federation. And you know that most of these simulators were made on the basis of the antediluvian anti-ship missiles Termit being removed from the fleet, the maximum anti-ship missiles Mosquito (but early modifications and also obsolete) ... differ, both in range of use, and in maneuverability and resistance to electronic warfare, and the latest model of this missile was created after the collapse of the USSR ... These Yankee-purchased imitators are ridiculous, it's like comparing the T-55 and the T-90. Photos of Zircons are publicly available.
                    1. -3
                      11 September 2021 13: 22
                      Quote: Sapsan136
                      You wrote about the simulators of anti-ship missiles that the Anglo-Saxons bought in the post-Soviet space and the fact that they were able to intercept this simulator with their air defense systems somewhere in the exercises for you an argument against modern anti-ship missiles of the Russian Federation

                      Yes, your understanding is very difficult.
                      First, it was cited so that Aegis knows how to deal with supersonic targets and is not "junk", as you are trying to imagine here.

                      Quote: Sapsan136
                      Compare modern missiles with the possibility of the Termit anti-ship missile and the Mosquito anti-ship missile (early model - A), on the basis of which all these imitators purchased by the Yankees were created

                      Three times ha)) The Americans bought MA-31 targets - based on the supersonic Kh-31

                      So whoever has zero point zero knowledge is understandable. For education and so on - don't even stutter.

                      Quote: Sapsan136
                      it is replaced by UNA-UNSO manuals

                      here I can only twirl my finger. If the frame is a stupid person, this is forever
                      1. -2
                        12 September 2021 21: 27
                        Good gentleman, the Anglo-Saxons recently shouted that they were able to intercept a simulator based on the Mosquito anti-ship missile system, only this is Mosquito-A, but now they are not in the Russian Federation, this is the first series of anti-ship missiles of this type, even the ships on which they once stood for a long time, and you to us (drawing figwams) ... The zircon was tested by launching from the frigate Admiral Gorshkov ... where is the underwater launch there !?
                      2. -1
                        12 September 2021 21: 35
                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        Anglo-Saxons recently shouted

                        Do not know what they were shouting in your ear, or you had glitches, but they bought the MA-31 targets.

                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        Zircon was tested by launching from the frigate Admiral Gorshkov ... where is the underwater launch there !?

                        Zircon will also be tested from the K-560 Severodvinsk nuclear submarine. The fact that the rocket will be variable in terms of carriers - NK, submarine, possibly - aviation - this was said many years ago, at the very beginning of work on the rocket, it was written in the TTZ by the developer. You fucked up again, congratulations again!

                        Summary: pull up the materiel. This is the first thing.

                        Second - Only stupid creatures, when they are presented with arguments and facts that do not fit into their stupid little head, begin to sing fairy tales about Ukrainians, Ukraine, fascists who sold their homeland and so on. You, stupid person, do not know me, at least you asked who and where, before you build speculations and write nonsense. Instead of conducting a correct debate in essence, you get personal, and even so that in real life you can get in the face for this, easily and quickly.
                      3. -2
                        12 September 2021 22: 17
                        So from Severodvinsk they will only test it, but from Admiral Gorshkov they have already tested it ... By the way, the Tu-22Ms are not armed with the X-31, but the anti-ship missiles Storm X-22, the MiG-31 are armed with the anti-ship missile system Kinzhal ... something I did not hear, so that someone could intercept these anti-ship missiles ... So far we have seen that even with the interception of the antediluvian R-17 Scud missiles, the United States and its allies have problems, and this is not even removed from service in the Russian Federation 9K79 Point M ... Yes because people like you are drowning here for the United States and the UPA, you can see who you are and by the way I didn’t poke your gang, but you’ve got a problem in education and upbringing, however, you should not expect anything else from the Lviv villagers ...
                      4. -2
                        12 September 2021 22: 47
                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        So from Severodvinsk they will only test it, but from Admiral Gorshkov they have already tested it ...

                        a pathetic attempt to justify himself and put a good face on a bad game. you did not know that Zircon is also intended for an underwater launch, otherwise you would not have written this nonsense

                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        where is the underwater start !?

                        The rocket was originally, like Caliber and Onyx, like Granite and Uranus, created for both NK and submarines. Everyone knows this in the slightest degree in the subject, but not stupid urrya-patriots. You have zero knowledge and intelligence, but ambition gushes from all cracks.

                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        Yes, because people like you are drowned here for the United States and the UPA

                        there won't be proof again, will there? You have already scribbled so many letters, and you could not give a single proof of your unfounded accusations.

                        Quote: Sapsan136
                        and by the way, I didn't poke your gang

                        which gang? And whose cow would moan for "poking". You don't notice the log in your own eye, but pretended to be offended by "you". Behave correctly, do not become personal, do not offend the interlocutor and do not write speculation - and no one will poke you, "polite" and "educated" you are ours wassat
                      5. +2
                        14 September 2021 04: 58
                        Mr. Sidorenko, if you have not watched the Russian news about the launch of the Zircon anti-ship missile system from Admiral Gorshkov, then these are your problems. No need to describe your glitches here, it is not interesting to us and the neuter gender, this is for you, non-Europeans, do not confuse your wretched country with the Russian Federation ... I see you studied at the same circus school with ZELENSKY, where you saw that all anti-ship missiles had an underwater start ... You have a lot of rudeness, but there is really zero knowledge, there is no Uranium anti-ship missile with an underwater launch, just like many others do not have an underwater launch RCC
                      6. -3
                        14 September 2021 08: 59
                        Quote: Kobra45
                        where did you see that all anti-ship missiles had an underwater launch

                        where it says that all? Are you also talking quietly to yourself? Do you distort the words of the interlocutor, and then try to prove your "innocence"?
                      7. -3
                        14 September 2021 08: 59
                        Or do you think that it is incorrect to express indulgence only to you? Behave yourself, express yourself correctly - and you will be treated the same way. Isn't it understandable, so big and still stupid?
                      8. -3
                        14 September 2021 09: 04
                        Quote: Kobra45
                        and knowledge

                        Do you have them to talk about missiles? Worked as a war correspondent, do you have a military education? (almost literal quote, do you find out?) Will you also show me a photo of an American rocket and pass it off as Zircon?
                      9. The comment was deleted.
                      10. -2
                        14 September 2021 12: 58
                        Quote: Kobra45
                        I see you in the same circus school with ZELENSKY LEARNED

                        so I remember you, you studied with us))
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. -2
                    11 September 2021 09: 36

                    Excuse me, before you RCC Zircon
                    1. -1
                      11 September 2021 13: 28
                      Quote: Sapsan136
                      Excuse me, before you RCC Zircon

                      wassat nonsense. I see an American X-51A Waverider from Boeing in the picture. Congratulations, you fucked up again!

                      PS Zircon cannot look like that, if only for one simple reason - an underwater launch is announced for the rocket. This type of air intake on an underwater launch rocket cannot be. And yes, especially for you - you are not the first or the tenth person to pass off the X-51A as Zircon.
  22. +1
    9 September 2021 08: 13
    The author of the article writes strangely. The dagger or zircon was launched and while it flies the ship will move and the missile will not reach the target. Isn't the missile corrected during the flight? I'm not good at missiles, but as far as I know, the missile also has its own homing head and target coordinates correction? Or am I wrong? We stupidly launched our useless blank and it flies to one point, ruining our defense industry for money wasted)))
    1. -2
      9 September 2021 19: 55
      The rocket's own seeker has a rather low-power radar (because the size of the rocket is small, an antenna of sufficient dimensions cannot be placed and there is no powerful power source on board), therefore, they "see" not far. About 20-40 km, depending on the flight altitude. Those. the rocket itself will lock onto the target and follow it only from this distance. And before that, she goes on autopilot (according to the laid down program)
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. +2
    9 September 2021 08: 36
    10 aircraft carriers out of 11 in permanent repair, "Zamvolty" substandard, one shot from a cannon worth 2 million dollars. What are the 11 AUG? Remember the fearful "Donald", whose crew en masse filed a report to be written off ashore after the essentially training attack of our "Sushka". Yes, they jump overboard only if they see on the radar that a real rocket is flying at them, the "Afghan flight" has just shown everything.
    1. -2
      10 September 2021 17: 22
      Quote: Boris Elizarov
      whose crew en masse submitted a report to be written off ashore after essentially a training attack of our "Sushka"

      so big, but you still believe in fairy tales and fakes wassat
  25. 0
    9 September 2021 09: 33
    I decided that again Maksimka Klimov laid out his next opinion, but no, another great eksperd naval commander drew, uncle would you bring down somewhere in the liberal media space there such all-footed people are held in high esteem.
  26. +4
    9 September 2021 10: 38
    Well, let's count:
    Simple calculations indicate the terrifying effectiveness of the Zircon hypersonic missile. With a sound speed of 340 meters per second, the speed of Mach 9 is 3060 meters per second. In a minute, the rocket will fly 183,6 kilometers. The Zircon will cover a distance of 1000 kilometers at a speed of Mach 9 in 5-6 minutes.

    For the same 5-6 minutes, the aircraft carrier with a speed of up to 30 knots, as you write, will be able to cover only 5-6 km. This distance at sea is subject even to the naked eye of a person, and for the homing heads of the Zircon rocket, this is generally nothing! Upon arrival in the target designation area, the rocket just needs to correct its trajectory by a thousandth of a degree, and it can do this in any direction of the initial target designation displacement radius. These are just "seeds" for her. Add to this the fact that "Zircon" is a "pack" missile and several missiles will be launched to ensure destruction of the target. NATO generals themselves say about the complete helplessness of the NATO air defense against these missiles. And about the "long arms" this is what the captain of the US naval forces Jerry Hendrix says: -Russia and China are creating missiles specially designed to destroy aircraft carriers and capable of sinking these ships from a distance significantly exceeding the range of their carrier-based aircraft. Business Insider does not understand how, in such a situation, aircraft carriers can use their power in real combat conditions.

    Total in the bottom line (according to NATO experts):
    1) Modern hypersonic missiles have a significantly larger range than AUG carrier-based aircraft.
    2) Air defense and electronic warfare of NATO standards are completely powerless against these missiles.
    3) The speed of hypersonic missiles and the presence of homing heads guarantee that the target does not leave and even one missile hit is close to 100%, and the launch of several missiles is inevitable defeat of the target.
    4) According to the former special assistant to the chief of staff of the US Navy, Brian Clarke, the loss of even one aircraft carrier would shock the United States. For this reason, as well as fears of losing national prestige and even political power, the US President may lack the determination to use the aircraft carrier in the most dangerous areas, despite the recommendations of the generals.
    1. -1
      9 September 2021 13: 21
      the loss of even one aircraft carrier would shock the United States

      Roughly the same situation was in the First World War. The Germans built a linear Open Sea Fleet and did not risk it. The loss of one or two battleships was regarded as a disaster.
      Therefore, the Germans kept their battleships at bay. Just like the Russian battleships were in the Marquis puddle. The British, too, were not very eager for a general engagement. Throughout the war, the outputs of the Grand Fleet can be counted on one hand.

      Everyone knows how the performance of the Baltic sailors ended, because without the sailor maddened by idleness, the Great October counter-revolution had no chance of success ...
      The Kiel revolt in 1918 had the same consequences for Germany. In the same year, 1918, it exploded on the ships of the Austrian fleet in Pole, although there the riot was already a consequence of the collapse of the two-pronged monarchy. In 1919, the crews of the French battleships in the Black Sea mutinied. And it all ended with the Invergordon mutiny in the Royal Navy.

      Of course, this is unlikely to happen now. But it should be borne in mind that a large ship is a valuable thing in itself and the British thought the best use of it: "fleet in being".
      1. -2
        10 September 2021 17: 25
        Quote: Bakht
        The Germans built a linear Open Sea Fleet and did not risk it.

        at Jutland (this battle is considered the largest naval battle in the history of mankind), with whom did the British fight, with humanoids or what?

        What kind of nonsense they write comments, who know no history at all. neither in technique nor in a tooth with a foot.
        1. -1
          10 September 2021 17: 49
          I usually don't reply if a person writes insults. I advise you to read the history of the Jutland battle. First, Wikipedia, and then Harper's "The Truth About the Jutland Battle."
        2. -1
          10 September 2021 17: 54
          And more. "The biggest battle in human history" is sheer ignorance. More ships took part in the Battle of Leite than in the Battle of Jutland.
          Learn the story.

          The Battle of Leyte Gulf on October 23–26, 1944 is considered not only the last major naval battle in the Pacific theater of operations, but also one of the largest in the history of mankind, both in terms of the number of military equipment and personnel involved.
          1. -2
            10 September 2021 19: 39
            Quote: Bakht
            this is sheer ignorance.

            on your part, it is possible. You have not chosen a criterion. In terms of tonnage and firepower of the ships participating in the battle, Jutland is ahead.

            Quote: Bakht
            The high seas RUNNED from the English Royal Navy.

            Yes, he fled so that the victory remained with the Germans.
            1. 0
              10 September 2021 20: 06
              By any criterion, I'm right. The tonnage of early-century battleships and mid-century aircraft carriers and battleships is incomparable. Let's say one Musashi weighed as much as two Queens. In terms of the number of ships, Leyte Bay is also ahead. In Jutland, there were a total of nearly 200 ships on both sides. In Leyte Gulf alone there are more than 150 destroyers on both sides. And they were completely different destroyers. How do you compare the firepower of Iron Duke and Legsington? So Jutland is clearly not the biggest battle. The battle in Leyte Gulf is considered to be the largest.

              The victory remained with the British. There was a lot of controversy about this. But on June 2, Jellicoe announced that the Grand Fleet was ready to go to sea again. The high seas fleet was ready to go to sea only by the end of the year. In 6 months. The blockade remained. It became clear even to Scheer that private operations would not work. The whole idea of ​​Prince Henry of Prussia failed.

              The Germans sank a little more British ships, but lost the battle. If Harper described the course of the battle in detail, the Sick in the book "Clash of the Giants" gave a detailed analysis.

              Going back to the beginning. The battle of Jutland happened by accident. Jellicoe aimed to destroy Hipper's squadron. He did not know that Sheer went to sea. Scheer aimed to destroy Beatty's battlecruiser squadron. It was for this that Hipper went into raiding operations. As soon as it became clear that the main forces of the fleets had met, Scheer withdrew from the battle. The battleship has become a valuable thing in itself. As it is now the aircraft carrier.

              PS Believe me, if I write something, then I try to consider all aspects. The books of Harper and the Sick have been read by me for a very long time. Ten years ago. Now I just needed to brush up on some details. I read Nimitz's book War at Sea 40 years ago. So I am not commenting on the "stupid".
            2. -1
              10 September 2021 20: 16
              Let me cite a few quotes from the book of the Sick "Clash of the Giants". About who won and who lost

              But already on June 2, Jellicoe had 31 dreadnoughts, 7 battle cruisers, 20 light cruisers, against which Scheer could only put 18, 4 and 9. More importantly, already 12 hours after returning to the harbor, the British commander-in-chief announced that 26 dreadnoughts and 6 battle cruisers were ready to rejoin the battle. Only the Marlboro and Worspight were sent to the shipyards for repairs. "Barem", "Malaya", "Lion" and "Tiger" could well wait until the fleet included 4 ships undergoing maintenance (battleships "Emperor of India", "Queen Elizabeth" and "Royal Sovereign", battle cruiser "Australia"). Sheer had 4 dreadnoughts and all battlecruisers were seriously damaged, they needed lengthy repairs, and he refrained from such statements. The König, Grosser Kurfürst and Margrave needed immediate repairs, although the battleship König Albert was not yet ready. The battle cruisers of the Germans were so badly damaged that they did not enter service until the end of the year, while the Marlboro, the last one to complete the repairs, returned to Skala Flow by the beginning of August.

              «The morning after the battle, Jellicoe discovered that he completely owned the North Sea, where not a trace of the enemy remained.... This state of affairs was the best fit for his goals. " Berliner Tageblatt remarked: “The German navy barely escaped a crushing defeat. Now it is clear to any reasonable person that this battle could and should be the last. " The result was summed up by a neutral New York newspaper: "The German fleet wounded its jailer, but remained in prison."
        3. 0
          10 September 2021 18: 21
          The Battle of Jutland was the rarest incident in the history of naval warfare. I cannot say that it is the only one, but it is very, very rare.
          When the whole battle fleet at full strength made twice a brilliant maneuver. The Germans showed a model of navigation and twice made "all of a sudden" turn. As a result, the entire line fleet of the High Seas RUNNED from the English Royal Navy.
          When Scheer was asked after the war with what hangover he climbed onto the wake of the British, he replied "I do not know. It happened."
          And yet, the Kaiser forbade the German fleet to go out to sea for more than 100 miles, without his personal order. So the German battleships smoked peacefully in the Kiel Bay. Occasionally raiding operations were carried out by Hipper's 1st Reconnaissance Squadron.
    2. -1
      9 September 2021 20: 06
      Quote: Yuri Nemov
      1) Modern hypersonic missiles have a significantly larger range than AUG carrier-based aircraft

      you are wrong. the LRASM missile has a range of about 800 km. We add to it the Hornet's range within 700 km - and we get 1500 km.

      Quote: Yuri Nemov
      2) air defense and electronic warfare of NATO standards are completely powerless against these missiles

      is this information from the OBS? What do you even know about American electronic warfare? I am sure that nothing but patriotic statements by the Russian media. Likewise, you do not know anything about the Standard SAM family

      Quote: Yuri Nemov
      3) The speed of hypersonic missiles and the presence of homing heads - ensure that the target does not go away

      only if the control center is provided and the missiles were launched earlier. than they sunk their carrier. Rest assured, AUG will not wait until they start hitting her - she will strive to hit first. Fortunately, the situational awareness of the AUG due to the presence of AWACS aircraft is much higher.

      Quote: Yuri Nemov
      4) According to the former special assistant to the chief of staff of the US Navy, Brian Clarke, the loss of even one aircraft carrier would shock the United States.

      So what? During World War II, there was also a shock - and from the loss of almost the entire line fleet in Pearl Harbor, and from the loss of aircraft carriers in battles. How did it all end? New ones were built. Who lost the war in the Pacific, the States or Japan?
    3. 0
      10 September 2021 15: 48
      4) According to the former special assistant to the chief of staff of the US Navy, Brian Clarke, the loss of even one aircraft carrier would shock the United States. For this reason, as well as fears of losing national prestige and even political power, the US President may lack the determination to use the aircraft carrier in the most dangerous areas, despite the recommendations of the generals.

      the defeat of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese led not to the defeat of the American nation, but to the growth of patriotic sentiments. there were queues at the recruiting stations.
      the Japanese were wrong. make no mistake and you.
    4. -1
      11 September 2021 15: 16
      That's right, 1000 km - 5 minutes. The question is - how to detect AUG 1000 km from our anti-ship missile carrier? And better - how to track their movement in order to attack, when approaching 1000 km. The Americans are going by creating a network of a huge number of small satellites, which will allow them to see the situation on the surface of the earth in real time. This is not yet expected in our country. Perhaps this issue can be resolved through stratospheric AWACS DRONES, which are now being intensively developed. But at the moment - we are solving the issue with great difficulty. The exercises of the US Navy on the attack on Vladivostok showed that we would detect such a real attack by the appearance of cruise missiles only in the line of sight.
  27. +1
    9 September 2021 11: 06
    The question of a civilian shpak. I must say right away that the data is from the 80s. Then the States had 16 or 18 AUG.
    The calculation was simple. One theater of operations requires three aircraft carriers. One is on alert, the second is on the transition, the third is at the base. A nuclear aircraft carrier can be at sea for at least a year. But this is theoretical. If aircraft fuel and ammunition can be delivered by supply vessels, then flight and naval personnel need rest. The time an aircraft carrier is on alert is a month or two. More severely reduces the crew's combat effectiveness. Therefore, 30 knots for a modern ship is certainly good, but the transition takes time.
    Today we have 11 AUG. One grouping for Iran, the second off the coast of China, the third in the Mediterranean Sea. They want to place another one on SevMorPut. In reality, there will be 1 AUG at each theater. That is, one regiment of mixed composition.
    It seems to me that for a banana republic it will do. Against Russia, this air regiment will die in a couple of days, even if the aircraft carrier itself is not damaged. The aircraft carrier itself is not needed by anyone without an air group. And here we have already noted the difference in the range of ground and carrier-based aircraft.
    1. -2
      10 September 2021 17: 28
      Quote: Bakht
      In reality, each theater will have 1 AUG

      six (!) aircraft carriers were brought to the Persian Gulf in 91. If you do not know, then do not bring your inventions. During the OBD period, AUG are combined into AUS, as part of several aircraft carriers.
      1. 0
        10 September 2021 17: 50
        30 years ago? Congratulations. I thought I would be criticized for 80s data.
        I can tell such a smart guy that when Russia launched Calibers from the Caspian Sea, the American AUG went further into the sea.
        1. 0
          11 September 2021 11: 04
          I can tell such a smart guy that when Russia launched Calibers from the Caspian Sea, the American AUG went further into the sea.

          And what is that supposed to mean? smile
          1. -2
            11 September 2021 11: 09
            Nothing special. We just decided to move away.
  28. +1
    9 September 2021 14: 06
    Comrade Marzhetsky simply ignored the hunt for the AUG in the pack mode, when one or several anti-ship missiles rise high and transmit the current target position to the rest. In this case, there is no need to accurately track the current position of the AUG. This time.

    In addition, the other day there was a message that our pair of Tu-95RTs conducted exercises over the Pacific Ocean, fully confirming their compliance with the requirements of the mission. These are two.

    In addition to the five passive Lotos-C1 satellites, the Pion-NKS radar reconnaissance spacecraft, which is part of Liana, is significantly superior in performance to the similar US-A Legendy satellite. It weighs 6500 kilograms and has a higher resolution and a larger observation bandwidth. Pion-NKS is capable of detecting and tracking objects up to one meter long, while the error in determining the coordinates does not exceed three meters.

    Also "Pion-NKS" tracks not only marine objects, but also scans the surface of the earth. That is, it is universal. The satellite does not need a powerful power source, and therefore the designers got rid of the power plant at the nuclear reactor. Solar panels are quite enough, because the spacecraft is placed on a solar-synchronous an orbit with an altitude of about 1000 kilometers, that is, it is constantly on the sunny side of the Earth.

    But it seems that now everything has grown together. The satellite is operating normally. In orbit, the two components of the Liana finally connected, and its full-fledged debugging began. This means that the adoption of the reconnaissance and target designation system, which is so necessary for the Russian Navy, is not far off.

    Vladimir Tuchkov

    These are three. When trying to approach the Pion, the X-37 can be shot down, for example, by the Nudol missile of the S-500 complex.
    1. -1
      10 September 2021 15: 54
      These are three. When trying to approach the Pion, the X-37 can be shot down, for example, by the Nudol missile of the S-500 complex.

      Well, you need to know that he is going to fly up, and track his movements and be ready to launch an attack))
  29. 0
    9 September 2021 19: 26
    They whined, whined and will whine! they will sing these mantras about "without the power of Russia" and about "without the usefulness of the latest developments in the military-industrial complex."
  30. -1
    9 September 2021 19: 41
    This highly respected multidisciplinary specialist, so much so that he swung at the subject of at least scientific work :) He, what is supposed to converge with the supastat fleet in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean? To him, that he thoroughly knows those characteristics of the weapon about which this figure is talking?
  31. -1
    9 September 2021 19: 53
    Sometimes the author's delirium surprises ... First, if we bear in mind the tonnage of sunken ships, then it is necessary to clarify the period, because for 500 years ahead, the ships will break free. The author, I suspect, had strictly the period of the Second World War, but there the submarines, and these are also ships, were obviously sunk many times more! And over time, the USSR is focusing on the submarine. And this is correct, our goal is, first of all, not the projection of strength onto the shore, but the protection of our own.

    Yes, target designation is now a problem ... Having solved it, and its solution is orders of magnitude (!!!) cheaper than the creation of AUG, KPUG and others, in fact, perhaps not forever, we will get a decisive superiority in coastal defense. Yes, it is possible that missile defense missiles will appear, intercepting hypersonic anti-ship missiles with sufficient efficiency, but this will obviously not happen soon, and the effectiveness of interception will be greatly hampered by too significant overloads of such missiles.

    We can quite effectively neutralize the AUG projections on our shore even now, without hypersound, completely dispensing with ordinary supersonic anti-ship missiles of 20-30 years ago, but in the open ocean it is already much more difficult. Hypersound will close this issue for a significant time.
  32. 0
    9 September 2021 21: 03
    This author pulled scum from various sources and decided that he was a great strategist and visionary. And entire teams of scientists and engineers who have been working on hypersound for years are just robots that thoughtlessly drew stupid drawings. They did not think about target acquisition, target designation, guidance, plasma, etc. And only the "great genius" Marzhetsky was able to summarize all this and give his opus to the mountain, fairly providing it with abbreviations and terminology for greater persuasiveness. And look, they say, what do I know. Probably, he is the only owner of super hyper knowledge and military secrets in the country.
    1. -2
      10 September 2021 15: 53
      do you want to discuss the identity of the author or the text? if the text, then give specific counterarguments.
  33. 0
    9 September 2021 21: 57
    The United States can actually set 2-3 AUG. The rest are under continuous renovation. More talk ...
  34. 0
    9 September 2021 23: 28
    It is a fact that they cannot be defeated at sea. How deep is the AUG defense? About 1500 km. This alone is enough. But, and they will break through us from the sea?
    1. -2
      10 September 2021 15: 52
      from the sea, or rather, from under it, they will shoot the Ohio nuclear submarine. and the AUG will provide cover.
  35. 0
    10 September 2021 02: 01
    First, the long arm of the AUG is short
    Secondly, a hypersonic missile travels through space from 10700 kilometers per hour
    Thirdly, the AUG maneuvers from 78571 steps per hour
  36. Ugr
    -1
    10 September 2021 02: 50
    Pole Marzhetsky, we all understand that we need to work out for a "crust of bread", but unfortunately, tests of hyper sonic missiles were carried out and there were no failures, and may your owners continue to pay you "silver coins" in exchange for such articles, AUGs of your owners have already do not bother, be afraid and respect us, otherwise you cannot, this is the whole of Europe, it concerns the Mirians and Straussians ...
    1. -2
      10 September 2021 15: 51
      I wonder what is so Russophobic in this article? that the Pole Marzhetsky is worried about Russia and worries about strengthening its defenses? there is no dissonance in your head?
  37. -1
    10 September 2021 08: 16
    Let's put the question differently,
    "Why the US Navy AUG is useless against the Zircons and Daggers of the Russian Federation"
  38. -2
    10 September 2021 15: 58
    Quote: Alex Ivanov_2
    Yes, yes, Zircons and Daggers are useless. Only for those who have not taken haloperidol. the author would first read the ovsky assessment of zircon by experts. There they took haloperidol and somehow they are sooo sad and they do not consider the possibility of targeting a problem at all. Especially there they are confident in increasing the range to 1500 km and then they just feel bad

    if you were able to understand what you read, then you would see that no one denies the effectiveness of Zircons and Gauges. only the need for their target designation is indicated, and even quite specific proposals are made: to build carriers for AWACS and carrier-based aircraft.
  39. -3
    10 September 2021 15: 59
    Quote: Voyager
    Why should you read this couple of all-propals who imagined themselves to be strategists of the entire Navy?

    so you just reasonably refute the position of all the fighters and prove that everything is fine. if you can.
  40. -2
    10 September 2021 20: 25
    Quote: Marzhetsky
    how low it is. what radius

    Hospadi, they are recruiting into Yksperdy according to ads ...
    Any aircraft unit has such parameters as combat range, combat radius, ferry range in its performance characteristics. Combat radius and combat range are traditionally indicated without PTB.
    So, if we consider the Boeing F / A-18 (the name is according to the official list of aircraft designations DoD 4120.15-L), then F / A-18e, f. Legacy hornet, versions F / A-18a, b, c, d for March 2021 remained in service only in the Marine Corps, as well as training and experimental squadrons.
    And yes let's take Block 3
    So this is what we have:
    1) combat range - 2346 km (with AIM-9)
    2) combat radius - 726 km
    3) ferry range - 3054 km
    Regarding LRASM, the pan is frankly lying, because their range is 930 km (according to US Air Force Bomber Sustainment and Modernization: Background and Issues for Congress)
    But these missiles are subsonic, I don't think the paid one knows about LRASM-B
    A question to Seryozha - even without considering that 76 of these missiles were made, how many miles will the position of the Russian ship change when launched from the maximum distance LRASM-A.
    Naturally, the stupid Russians lack air defense, missile defense, radar and electronic warfare.
    1. -3
      11 September 2021 11: 05
      I am 40 years old, I have 2 higher educations and now I am getting the third. There is an award from the State Duma for his contribution to the development of journalism.
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  41. +1
    10 September 2021 23: 02
    Dear author, write not with us, but with them, that is, in Russia. And then where do you publish your so-called creativity, I'm afraid to call it. Sorry for my ignorance.
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  43. -1
    12 September 2021 11: 28
    Putin knows what he is doing, and I think he will be smarter than Marzhetsky.
    This one has forgotten about Poseidon, but why so?
    I would tell how he makes a lot of noise and he just can't get to the AUG ..
    In short, floating coffins, they are coffins, and it is only a matter of time to bury them.
    And I think this time has come))
  44. 0
    12 September 2021 16: 52
    Gentlemen, you are all here, breaking spears about the destruction of the AUG. No strategy needed !!!! The aircraft carrier does not need to be sunk, for this really requires very colossal costs. Enough, at the moment from 3 to 5 hits of warheads weighing about 500 kg, no matter what they are delivered to the target. Damage to the deck mechanics of an aircraft carrier, makes it unnecessary tins !!!! So, without the work of air catapults, aircraft finishers, lifts, its weapons, in the form of various aircraft, will simply stop working. And the whole AUG will immediately turn around for departure to the home port, for long-term and expensive repairs !!!! Any AUG approaching closer than 600 km to the coastline of the Russian Federation (the range of sea-based aviation, if they are not suicide bombers) will be hit from three sides, from coastal complexes, strategic aviation and the Navy, 5 heads will definitely fly!
    And more. As mentioned above, the AUG is an offensive, strike force. And the Russian Federation, indeed, will not attack anyone, but for defense, what is there is enough !!!! It is difficult to destroy the airfield on the shore, they will be leveled by bulldozers overnight, and it is impossible to drown at all !!!
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  46. 0
    19 September 2021 16: 04
    Anti-ship missiles are effective against all types of ships, including AUG. The range of the AUG aviation is approx. 1000 km, and anti-ship missiles up to 5000. The main disadvantage of AUG is that they are clearly visible from space, and their position is well known. Of course, an aircraft carrier will not sink from one anti-ship missile without a nuclear warhead, but 20 missiles are quite capable of drowning it. One missile with a nuclear warhead can easily drown it, but in general, an explosion of a nuclear warhead, even at a considerable distance from an aircraft carrier, will disable all of its air defense. Another feature of the "dagger" or "zircons" is its high flight speed, which modern air defenses are not designed for. So a lone aircraft or a small boat or submarine can easily hit an aircraft carrier without even entering its area of ​​action.
  47. +1
    14 October 2021 22: 57
    You, ladyshshsha, do not fuss - we will get into your A-carrier, and there it is enough just to pull an F1 grenade on the deck - a mustache: there was an A-carrier, became a cuckold, yygygygygygygy
  48. 0
    25 December 2022 18: 10
    The author is just a couch expert who thinks like this "I am D'artagnan and they are all ..."
    In the USA, they tensed up and are trying with all their might to "catch up" with Russia in terms of sound weapons, they really tensed up there .. but the author knows better where the admirals from the USA are before this "genius"
  49. 0
    7 May 2023 11: 49
    The general idea of ​​the author is based on the fact that hypersonic flight cannot be controlled. But this is not so ... I don’t even take the “Dagger” with the “Zircon”, take the Iskander for example, it rushes at a speed of 2100 m / s, and this is what hypersound is and maneuvers perfectly, yes it is, that even the operator does not know its exact trajectory. To remove such a target, AUG missile defense systems need to calculate the meeting point with the missile. And how to do it? It is clear that in the final segment the rocket will need to reach a straight line for 30 km, but then it turns out, let's say "Dagger" (the same "Iskander" + MiG-31 throws him another 850-900 m / s), that is, missile defense AUG will take 8-10 seconds to capture, target and eliminate. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but the probability of successfully suppressing a missile attack goes down sharply. And if the volley is group?
    In my opinion, the AUGs are good against the "banana" republics. "To go far, the same NATO fleet, very, very rarely descends below Cyprus, although only Bastions threaten them there. The future belongs to missiles, whatever one may say. Economy, return , Damage Complex.